Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: the Dew Knot Arc syndrome (Edward Moody II)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience (Gary Boothe)
3. 07:33 AM - Re: N601XT flight photos (LarryMcFarland)
4. 07:46 AM - Fw: Too picky? (Bill Naumuk)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: N601XT flight photos (Bill Naumuk)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: N601XT flight photos (Jeff)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/02/06 (John Anderson)
8. 08:53 AM - Fuel systems (MaxNr@aol.com)
9. 09:28 AM - stick switches and fuel selector valve (john butterfield)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (Craig Payne)
11. 11:28 AM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (LarryMcFarland)
12. 11:34 AM - 801 Cargo Pod (Dave Ruddiman)
13. 11:42 AM - Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience (Dave Thompson)
14. 11:53 AM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (Edward Moody II)
15. 04:07 PM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
16. 04:07 PM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (RURUNY@aol.com)
17. 05:35 PM - Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve (Juan Vega)
18. 05:45 PM - Re: Fw: Too picky? (Tim & Diane Shankland)
19. 06:37 PM - Re: N601XT flight photos (Brandon Tucker)
20. 09:49 PM - 701 POH (Tebenkof@aol.com)
21. 10:24 PM - Re: 701 POH (Dave Ruddiman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: the Dew Knot Arc syndrome |
Yep Zed, I agree. We have to hope that the rest of the world does
descend into the dementia that consumes the American court system such
that everybody who gets his or her feelings hurt or offended is
devastated by the experince and requires some restitution. I get ticked
off about something almost every day but I haven't asked for or received
any compensation for it. Sort the wheat from the chaff and all that.
Here's to brotherhood, thick skin (not to mention my thick head), and a
hearty Hi Ho Do Not Archive!!!! The lone builder rides again,
Ed
Message 2
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| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Dave,
Ditto....Bill talked me into scratch building after I had purchased tail and
wing kits. I am saving thousands of $$ just on the Center Section! The best
part though, there is ENORMOUS satisfaction from making every part!
Good luck with your project,
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
Dave-
Scratch build. Ask around the list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch
building something anyway, so don't use lack of funds as an excuse. You're
not the first! For a couple hundred bucks worth of sheet stock, you can
build your stab. At least you're making progress!.....
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Westminster, CA
601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: N601XT flight photos |
Congratulations Brandon,
You're going to be an easy one to see with that paint scheme.
Nice airplane. Well done.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Brandon Tucker wrote:
> Gents,
>
> For those interested, I put some pictures on the net of my flight
> this week. The thumbnails go to slightly larger pics.
>
> http://mcgirt.net/~ars2006/ars2006/Desktop.html
> <http://mcgirt.net/%7Ears2006/ars2006/Desktop.html>
>
> VR/
>
> Brandon Tucker
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> *
> ================================
>
> *
Message 4
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> Carlos-
> I found that premade flannel bonnets work much better than anything
> else with my rotary polisher and the rough grits. Now I'm down to the
> final S compound and flannel tucked in under the elastic of a wool bonnet
> and there are certain spots that defy a final shine. The flannel loads up
> in no time, too. I scrap bonnets/swatches when they load up- Ma won't hear
> of putting them in HER washing machine! Contamination? After the C stage,
> I wiped the surface down with alcohol and paper towels to remove the
> excess.
> I'm starting to wonder if my problem is temperature related. My shop is
> heated with a ventless propane garage heater, but I'm reluctant to leave
> it burning when I'm not working. Maybe the aluminum is still cold-soaked
> even though the ambient temperature is comfortable.
> Have you noticed anything temperature related? I'll admit that with
> hunting season, getting ready for winter, and routine maintenance around
> the house I haven't been able to get my 13hrs a week in on the project but
> I've been polishing the C section since October!
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> To: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Too picky?
>
>
>> Hello, Bill
>>
>>
>> I think I went through that myself, but it was due to my specific working
>> conditions and method:
>> When I was using aluminum polishing compounds, the compound used on the
>> first pass left behind
>> deposits of very fine material (much like sand), and when I used the
>> compound for finishing,
>> since I was working on a flat, horizontal surface, I picked up those
>> deposits, and nasty swirls
>> ensued.
>>
>> In another occasion (using the famous Mother's paste), I was using cheap
>> paper towels, and those
>> were messing my finish. I learned my lesson, and now only use "expensive"
>> paper towels.
>>
>> So, in your case, I would look for (a) contamination or
>> (b)imperfections/roughness on the buffer
>> material itself (terry cloth bonnets? wool? felt?). You may need to
>> experimet with different
>> buffer on a test piece...
>>
>> Of course, there is the remote chance that you are pickier than I am...
>> ;-)
>>
>> Seriously, I hope this gives you some idea where to look for a fix.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos-
>>> I can't seem to get the finish I want. I'm directly under
>>> fluorescent lights and I wonder
>>> if I'm not overdoing it. I'm to the point where I'll be polishing right
>>> through the skin if I'm
>>> not careful, and still can't get rid of the scratches.
>>> Thoughts?
>>> Bill Naumuk
>>> HDS Fuselage
>>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: N601XT flight photos |
Brandon-
Love the paint job.
Do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Tucker
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; corvaircraft@mylist.net
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N601XT flight photos
Gents,
For those interested, I put some pictures on the net of my flight
this week. The thumbnails go to slightly larger pics.
http://mcgirt.net/~ars2006/ars2006/Desktop.html
VR/
Brandon Tucker
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | N601XT flight photos |
Brandon,
It takes a special person to paint flames on their airplane! Great
looking job!
Jeff Davidson
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N601XT flight photos
Congratulations Brandon,
You're going to be an easy one to see with that paint scheme.
Nice airplane. Well done.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Brandon Tucker wrote:
> Gents,
>
> For those interested, I put some pictures on the net of my flight
> this week. The thumbnails go to slightly larger pics.
>
> http://mcgirt.net/~ars2006/ars2006/Desktop.html
> <http://mcgirt.net/%7Ears2006/ars2006/Desktop.html>
>
> VR/
>
> Brandon Tucker
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> *
> ================================
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/02/06 |
Hi Folks,
I am compelled to comment on Zed Smith's post on the 12/02 list digest.
Mark Twain could not have stated it better! Well done Zed!
John Xl w/0235 will fly before year end
Do not archive
Message 8
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Do not archive
The following "stream of consciousness" may have a germ of info for those
with time to read it. Its sunday. I'm bored. It deals with turbine helicopter
systems that I have known: Sikorsky 76 and Bell UH1-212-412-214ST.
Type cetification: Sikorsky certified in FAA NE region. Required seperate
tanks to isolate possible fuel contamination in any tank. Bell certified in the
SW region. FAA SW didnt care about this.
Tanks/cells: Sikorsky has two 141.5 gal TANKS, one for each motor. Mechanical
fuel valves with cross feed. Bells have one filler into a big common fuel
cell that that trickle down to series of 4 to 8 (depending on type,variant) cells
under cabin floor. Left cells direct to no.1 engine, right for no.2. An elec.
operated valve can be used to open an interconnect in bottom cells when level
below 400 lbs. Elec operated on-off valves.
Gauges: Sikorsky has one per tank. Capacitance with float type low level
warning L/R. Bell has one gauge for the whole mish-mash, capacitance, with float
type low level warn. Left and right.
Pumps: Sikorsky uses engine driven pumps to start with JET INDUCERS for each
engine to supplement the engine driven. Each jet inducer has a branch to the
other eng and can feed both if an eng driven pump fails. Jet ind sort of like a
venturi. Bell uses submerged boost pumps in lower cells. Both systems lift
fuel about 5 feet to the engine driven pumps. If any Bell looses a boost pump,
a
6,000 ft ceiling is imposed. You can guess why. A Sikorsky can fly up to its
max allow. alt of 15,000 ft. with only jet ind. Fuel flow for both runs 300 to
450 lbs/hour, more with one eng inop.
Two very different systems as a result of two FAA regions that type certified
them. Parts some time break in Bells and poor lower vents slow refueling.
Both very dependable. Both are certified in transport catagory FAR part 29.
I've taken too much of your time.
My XL will have single elec pump ahead of the gascolator and 3 position
valve.
do not archive
Bob Dingley
XL- rudder- Lyc
Message 9
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| Subject: | stick switches and fuel selector valve |
hi list
i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
wire, ect helpful hints are requested
also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
the valve is the one supplied with the kit
as for our English friend, remember the level of
acrimony is inversely related to the level of
intelligence of the poster.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
Message 10
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| Subject: | stick switches and fuel selector valve |
Some have an "Ident" button for their transponder on the stick. I assume
they fly in controlled airspace a lot.
-- Craig
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
Hi John,
There's a tendency to put switches at the fingertips, but I'd resist
more than the transmit switch for the
control stick. Trim is a once or twice issue during flight and would
place second to transmit activities.
The prospect of chasing a broken wire in the control stick after the
airworthiness is also a much larger
problem if an when it happens. The idea of mixing wires to
multifunction switches in the stick are best left
to the computer joystick where you can set at a table to fix the errant
connection. Being upside down in
a 601 isn't a pretty picture. Recommendation is to keep it simple and
put your trim switches on the panel
near the throttle and the remaining switches in an order that can be
memorized easily. I used colored shrink
tubing to differentiate pumps from aux battery, the EIS and so forth.
The o-ring is fuel proof, was probably greased before assembly and
likely will not leak the first 10 years.
Being in an aircraft probably suggested long term maintenance. I'd not
try to get to it unless it becomes
a problem or at least call the manufacturer for tech support.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
john butterfield wrote:
>
> hi list
> i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
> on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
> switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
> wire, ect helpful hints are requested
>
> also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
> comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
> greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
> nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
> don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
> the valve is the one supplied with the kit
>
> as for our English friend, remember the level of
> acrimony is inversely related to the level of
> intelligence of the poster.
>
> john butterfield
> 601XL, corvair
> torrance, ca
>
>
Message 12
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Hello Fellow 801 Builders, (you other guys too)
Is the cargo pod I've seen pictures of a custom made installation or are
there plans somewhere. I'm not sure if I would need one but there is
probably mounting reinforcements that need to be installed in case I
decided to.
Dave in Salem
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Steven & list,
At the time I did not understand his methodology. Now, as an adult, I admire
it. Someone mentioned spin training. We also got out of the C150 and
performed some spins in a Citabria, also for some tail dragger time. His
idea of unusual attitude training was almost inverted, almost in a stall.
Another note is that he stressed "aircraft management", such as fuel and
flaps. He would not allow me to use the "Both" position on the fuel
selector. His reasoning was to make SURE that I was always aware of all my
"assets" switching back and forth between the tanks to maintain trim.
Everything he did was at the extreme edge. Every flight was task intensive
so I would become comfortable with multi-tasking. I truly hope that I will
remember my training when I get current again after my 25-years of not
flying. I hope to find another "crusty old marine" when I start to become
current again. I was never in military service (bad knees) but I do salute
all our men & women in uniform, both now and in the past.
P. S. Buck, rest his soul, was a WWII Corsair driver in the Pacific, later
an F86 & F4 instructor. Boy, did he have some stories!
Steven wrote:
Being a retired Marine, I know about your training - especially if that
Marine was a pilot from the WWII-mid Viet Nam era. We Marines
understand how
important it is to accomplish the mission with skill, knowledge,
decisiveness, morality and ethics. Failure to teach new pilots how to
fly
the airplane above all else will deny them all of these things -
putting
their lives in more jeopardy than necessary. Glad you got the Marine
ride.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Westminster, CA
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I've had a five button Ray Allen grip on the front stick in an
ultralight for 3.5 years without any trouble. I will use a seven buttom
version on my left stick and a one button grip on the right stick in my
601XL. The PTT at the 'trigger" position is not one that is easily
accidentally activated unless you tend to be a bit clutzy. The elevator
and aileron trim button are easy to access and completely intutitve to
use. During the progress of a flight I change the trim as the fuel burn
changes the CG and as speed changes as well. I expect the same to be
true in the 601XL. In addition, I expect to use aileron trim to counter
fuel use from the wing tanks. Since the Zodiac is a lot faster and more
comfy than the UL, I expect to fly farther and longer on X-C flights.
Because of that, I will have the transceiver frequency toggle function
and the x-ponder Ident function wired to buttons on the left stick too.
These grips are not terribly difficult to wire, they don't screw up in
my experience, and the convenience is something I want to have. If you
have room on the panel for trim switches and don't mind reaching there
for those functions, keep your stick grip simple..... you can even put
your ptt buttom there. If you like convenience, get the button-infested
type of grip. I like the convenience.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL/Jabiru/baggage area
----- Original Message -----
From: john butterfield
To: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: stick switches and fuel selector valve
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
hi list
i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
wire, ect helpful hints are requested
also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
the valve is the one supplied with the kit
as for our English friend, remember the level of
acrimony is inversely related to the level of
intelligence of the poster.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I also have the Allen 5 button handle grip on the CIP (left) side with only a
PTT button on the right side grip. Dual sticks. The wires are all very fine
size and need a protective sleve especialy at the bottom of the sticks. The
only recomendation I can make is that I wish I had installed a connector at the
bottom of each stick to make removing the sticks easier. Anytime you have to do
anything behind the pannel or down at the brakes the stick has to come out to
gain access. I did not install a connector when I built and it has been an
issue getting "down under." I really like having the four trim buttons on the
stick because I don't have to look away from flying or changes my hands to tune
the flight.
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
601xl - 3300
100 hours
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I have a PTT
Elevator trim up
trim down
Radio Memory select on right
Freq flip from stby to active on left
The radio buttons on stick can be changed to an aileron trim
easily if I add it later.
The right part of the Y stick just gets a PTT.
Brian
701
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
PTT and trim if desired. Pain with all the wiring, I am just doing PTT on stick
and trim buttons by the throttle.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2006 12:28 PM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: stick switches and fuel selector valve
>
>
>hi list
>i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
>on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
>switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
>wire, ect helpful hints are requested
>
>also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
>comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
>greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
>nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
>don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
>the valve is the one supplied with the kit
>
>as for our English friend, remember the level of
>acrimony is inversely related to the level of
>intelligence of the poster.
>
>john butterfield
>601XL, corvair
>torrance, ca
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Too picky? |
Bill,
I don't think you have a temperature problem I did my wings in the
unheated attic of my garage in February. They were on the floor and I
worked around them with pads on my knees. It was below freezing during
part of that time.
Tim Shankland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>
>> Carlos-
>> I found that premade flannel bonnets work much better than
>> anything else with my rotary polisher and the rough grits. Now I'm
>> down to the final S compound and flannel tucked in under the elastic
>> of a wool bonnet and there are certain spots that defy a final shine.
>> The flannel loads up in no time, too. I scrap bonnets/swatches when
>> they load up- Ma won't hear of putting them in HER washing machine!
>> Contamination? After the C stage, I wiped the surface down with
>> alcohol and paper towels to remove the excess.
>> I'm starting to wonder if my problem is temperature related. My
>> shop is heated with a ventless propane garage heater, but I'm
>> reluctant to leave it burning when I'm not working. Maybe the
>> aluminum is still cold-soaked even though the ambient temperature is
>> comfortable.
>> Have you noticed anything temperature related? I'll admit that
>> with hunting season, getting ready for winter, and routine
>> maintenance around the house I haven't been able to get my 13hrs a
>> week in on the project but I've been polishing the C section since
>> October!
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>> To: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Too picky?
>>
>>
>>> Hello, Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I went through that myself, but it was due to my specific
>>> working conditions and method:
>>> When I was using aluminum polishing compounds, the compound used on
>>> the first pass left behind
>>> deposits of very fine material (much like sand), and when I used the
>>> compound for finishing,
>>> since I was working on a flat, horizontal surface, I picked up those
>>> deposits, and nasty swirls
>>> ensued.
>>>
>>> In another occasion (using the famous Mother's paste), I was using
>>> cheap paper towels, and those
>>> were messing my finish. I learned my lesson, and now only use
>>> "expensive" paper towels.
>>>
>>> So, in your case, I would look for (a) contamination or
>>> (b)imperfections/roughness on the buffer
>>> material itself (terry cloth bonnets? wool? felt?). You may need to
>>> experimet with different
>>> buffer on a test piece...
>>>
>>> Of course, there is the remote chance that you are pickier than I
>>> am... ;-)
>>>
>>> Seriously, I hope this gives you some idea where to look for a fix.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos-
>>>> I can't seem to get the finish I want. I'm directly under
>>>> fluorescent lights and I wonder
>>>> if I'm not overdoing it. I'm to the point where I'll be polishing
>>>> right through the skin if I'm
>>>> not careful, and still can't get rid of the scratches.
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Bill Naumuk
>>>> HDS Fuselage
>>>> Townville, Pa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: N601XT flight photos |
If only the plane was as fast as it looks! The guys around here tease me about
the flames, but hell, my 4 year old is impressed...
I put a couple of hours on the plane today after tinkering with the carburetor
and swapping out the temperature sender. The oil temp never broke 200
on climb out, and was between 180 and 190 the whole flight. CHT's were actually
a little cool at cruise, until I leaned out the carburetor a bit. I have to
adjust it for tomorrow's flight. It is flying very well so far. I'll get some
better performance numbers after I wear-in the engine.
R/
Brandon
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Message 20
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Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the POH
for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the fact
that the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
Message 21
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Hi Jim,
I don't have a POH for a 701 since I'm building an 801. Just curious,
where in Portland are you?
I'm in Salem.
Dave
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Tebenkof@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for
the POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke
up the fact that the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
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