Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Ends (RClaggf4u@aol.com)
2. 05:10 AM - Re: Forward Skin Access (ALAN BEYER)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: 801 Elevator Extension (Tom Faulkner)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak (Trevor Page)
5. 05:51 AM - Question for gas welders. (William Dominguez)
6. 05:54 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak (Carl Bertrand)
7. 06:25 AM - Re: 801 Elevator Extension (Dave Ruddiman)
8. 06:27 AM - Re: 701 POH (Joe and Joan)
9. 06:46 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Aaron Gustafson)
10. 06:47 AM - Re: 801 inflight breakup in 2003 (n801bh@netzero.com)
11. 06:58 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Dave Ruddiman)
12. 07:16 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (N5SL)
13. 07:36 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Dave Ruddiman)
14. 07:36 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (LarryMcFarland)
15. 07:47 AM - 801 stabilizer (Tom Faulkner)
16. 08:30 AM - Thanks to all--camera thing (Zed Smith)
17. 08:45 AM - Welding Practice (thesumak@aol.com)
18. 08:46 AM - Re: New information (Gig Giacona)
19. 09:06 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 09:06 AM - Re: Thanks to all--camera thing (Randy L. Thwing)
21. 09:13 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Trainnut01@aol.com)
22. 09:47 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Johns optonline account)
23. 10:57 AM - unbelievable! (Jeff Small)
24. 11:23 AM - Re: welding aluminum (Zed Smith)
25. 12:04 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Dave Ruddiman)
26. 12:11 PM - Re: 801 stabilizer (Dave Ruddiman)
27. 12:16 PM - Re: Welding Practice (Dave Ruddiman)
28. 12:59 PM - Re: Camera question (Robert Schoenberger)
29. 01:00 PM - 601 Landing Gear Height (John Collins)
30. 01:25 PM - Re:Shutter lag (Zed Smith)
31. 01:29 PM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Brandon Tucker)
32. 02:33 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Ends (Ron Lendon)
33. 04:10 PM - Re: New information (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM)
34. 04:13 PM - Re: unbelievable! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
35. 05:16 PM - Wing walk tread strip (LarryMcFarland)
36. 05:39 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (john H)
37. 06:11 PM - Re: 601 Landing Gear Height (leinad)
38. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Ends (RClaggf4u@aol.com)
39. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height (NYTerminat@aol.com)
40. 06:58 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Trevor Page)
41. 07:17 PM - 601 Landing Gear Height (Robin Bellach)
42. 07:42 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Craig Payne)
43. 10:10 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (kevinbonds)
44. 10:47 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Ends |
I agree with Ron. I tried to make tamks for my 701 just like the
drawings....... three days later, half a sheet of aluminum, a bottle of argon
and half a
pound of rod later I threw it in the floor. Then I stomped it.
Made the next tank out of .032 and turned the flange on the tank ends in.
Made it just like Ron said and in one evening I had a tank that didn't leak. I
used 6061-T6 only because I didn't want to wait for the 5052.
Wayne Clagg
CH701, left wing done, starting on right.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
Juan,=0A=0AThis is the first plane I have built. The fit is because of a l
ot of extra time. Most of the stuff on my plane is the same. The factory
was a little wrong on the 400 Hrs. to buid it (I have over 2700 Hrs. build
time. If I would have counted a little closer it might be nearer to 3000 Hr
s.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AAl from Oshkosh=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Monday, December 4, 2006 9:27:04 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List:
amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A=0Athat is the cleanest job I have seen. Obvi
ously you have built before. HOw did you get such smooth cuts on the frame
in the first picture?=0A=0AI believe that is the frame for the cover?=0A
=0AJuan=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A>From: ALAN BEYER <agbeyer@sbcglo
bal.net>=0A>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 9:50 PM=0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>S
ubject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>=0A>Hi Guys,=0A>=0A>Here ar
e some pics of my inspection covers. I used floating nut plates.=0A>=0A>A
l from Oshkosh=0A>601 HDS=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----=0A>Fro
m: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
=0A>Sent: Monday, December 4, 2006 5:21:09 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Zenith-List:
<amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A>=0A>chuck,=0A>got any pics to share?=0A>=0A
>Juanm=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: Charles Wacker <ccwacker
@HOTMAIL.COM>=0A>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 4:30 PM=0A>>To: zenith-list@matronics.c
om=0A>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>=0A>>--> Zenith-Li
st message posted by: "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker@hotmail.com>=0A>>=0A>>I ha
ve made mine removabale with nut plates. I modified the top plate so =0A>>t
hat the part that covers the canopy hinge stays with the fuselage taht way
=0A>>the canopy does not need to be removed.=0A>>=0A>>Chuck Wacker=0A>>N601
CW Quick Build=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>>From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
m=0A>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>>Date: Mon, 4 Dec
2006 15:03:15 -0500 (GMT-05:00)=0A>>>=0A>>>--> Zenith-List message posted b
y: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Jay,=0A>>>=0A>>>t
hat looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire
=0A>>>piece on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing
=0A>>>something that would not make that possible? I think yours maybe bet
ter =0A>>>idea becasue you don't have to remove the canopy. I am also thin
king of =0A>>>cutting and trimming the "head chopping" sun leadge on the pa
nel, and =0A>>>replacing it with a leather one like on Cessnas. I found a
place that can =0A>>>custom make one for cheap price. ANy thoughts?=0A>>>
=0A>>>Juan=0A>>>=0A>>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>> >From: Jaybannist@cs
.com=0A>>> >Sent: Dec 4, 2006 2:14 PM=0A>>> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
=0A>>> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>> >=0A>>> >Jaun,
Let me know what you think. - Jay=0A>>> >=0A>>> >=0A>>> >Juan Vega <amyvega
2005@earthlink.net> wrote:=0A>>> >=0A>>> >>--> Zenith-List message posted b
y: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Jay,=0A>>> >>plea
se shoot me an email of the panel, i'd love a copy.=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Jvega@
carterusa.com=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Juan Vega, Jr.=0A>>> >>Senior Vice President
, Brokerage Services=0A>>> >>CARTER ONCOR International=0A>>> >>Cell: 813-7
84-7312=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Juan Vega=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>-----Original Message--
---=0A>>> >>>From: Jaybannist@cs.com=0A>>> >>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 1:16 PM=0A>
>> >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>>> >>>Subject: Zenith-List: Forward
t@cs.com=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>>I am in the process of adding an access panel t
o the forward top skin, =0A>>>to be able to access the back side of the ins
trument panel after =0A>>>construction is complete. This is for a 601XL.
I have a drawing in pdf =0A>>>format showing how I am doing this. If you w
ould like to see the drawing, =0A>>>please contact me directly.=0A>>> >>>
=0A>>> >>>Jay in Dallas=0A>>> >>>Do not archive=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >
>>=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>>=0A
>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>____________________________________________
_____________________=0A>>View Athlete?s Collections with Live Search =0A>>
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MG
==================
Message 3
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| Subject: | 801 Elevator Extension |
Dave:
Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May 2004. I
decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done. I made the
first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the shorter stab, so have
no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to the new size. The reason
given for the change was that most builders were using larger engines with
more weight.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Oil Leak |
Perhaps a bad seal on the PTO? Have you checked the gasket on the
fuel pump housing? The fuel pump is driven by the gearbox so maybe
you have a leak there..
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Dec 4, 2006, at 11:55 PM, john H wrote:
>
> Hi List
> I have a very small oil leak on a 912 (200hrs) which is aggravating
> the heck out of me. After flying I have a little oil showing up
> around the fuel pump, around the gear box and blowing back on the
> battery box on the firewall. I just can't seem to find the leak.
> Oil pressure is fine. Any ideas anyone??
> Thanks
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces
> friends list.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Question for gas welders. |
What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the
time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Oil Leak |
Hi John,
Had a simmilar problem and traced it to the fuel pump gasket/spacer. A dab
of hi temp sealer solved the problem.
Carl 701 912 with 450 hrs.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Elevator Extension |
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the information. I was getting one part mixed up with the
other. I was thinking that the elevator itself was extended back. Like
the nose to the trailing edge, where the trim tab goes, was made longer.
Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it
is, it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Faulkner
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:30 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension
Dave:
Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May
2004. I decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done.
I made the first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the
shorter stab, so have no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to
the new size. The reason given for the change was that most builders
were using larger engines with more weight.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
Message 8
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|
Juan, I could not find the POH on the zenith aircraft company list. I do not
have their DVD. Do I need to buy it to get a POH. DO NOT ARCHIVE. Would
appreciate more info on how to get a copy.
One of the dudes from FL. Flying CH 701 912S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>
> Dudes,
> if you go on line or get a DVD disk from zenith, they have a copy of the
> Chech rotax powered POH. you can use that as a template then inject
> usefull tidbits of info in your own to customize it. Example" here in
> florida I put in the POH Pretake off check list "prior to entering active
> runway, make certain no Alligators in eccess of ten feet in length are on
> runway", once that is checked I then go to "confirm Coyotes are off the
> taxiway prior to taxiing to active". True Story to both.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: nyterminat@aol.com
>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:16 AM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>
>>Larry,
>>
>>You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok
>>
>>Bob Spudis
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: lrm@skyhawg.com
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>
>>
>>Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may
>>already have one.
>>
>>Larry, www.skyhawg.com
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Tebenkof@aol.com
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
>>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>
>>
>>Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the
>>POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the
>>fact that the paper work is not.
>>
>>Jim Greenough
>>701 / 99.5321% complete
>>in Portland OR
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
>>
>>
>>
>>Date: 11/28/2006
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other
types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh
at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but
each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about
it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected
. I just closed the second wing a few days ago.
I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I find
they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The
Tinman (TM Technologies)
Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next month.
Fly in spring???
do not archive this message just remember it!
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: Matronics List
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by
the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12/4/2006
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 801 inflight breakup in 2003 |
Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the Faa that w
as doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went strictly
by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him I was a c
urrent builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen other bui
lders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thses planes
I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I look over
the wreckage either by myself or with you present, he said they were a
bout to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that I would need
to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old daughter was
not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the airplane wrecking
yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the, at that time
, current charges of retrieval and storage which was then 1845.00$ I cou
ld come look at it and then to call the insurance company to try to buy
the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to California to
look.
Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so we
set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we knew.
I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wreck
age for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was talk
ing about.
Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing aer
obatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the elevator
is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little pins
on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle pi
eces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading of
the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the eleva
tor and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing it
off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings in
the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ miles
till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plane t
hat flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an area
but the 14,000 agl that Mark mentioned explains that.
What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizontal
stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip ex
tensions.
signs and it would be impractical to develop
design standards for the wide variety of design configurations,
created by designers, kit manufacturers, and amateur builders." So
in the end they are seem to be saying, "looking at the structural
failure in detail is not our problem".
The NTSB report didn't state that the pilot was "heavily impaired by
narcotics", but said that chemical traces were consistent with
smoking at least one joint within 12 hours. They were trying to be
somewhat precise, since for the passenger, they said the same but
within 2 hours. So unless there's other evidence, I wouldn't call the
pilot "heavily" impaired, although one can still make inferences
about his attitude towards the flight if one wishes.
Back when the accident happened, it sounded like Ben Haas was hoping
to examine the wreckage or otherwise get further info from the
investigators, but I guess no further info could be obtained?
Presumably Zenair had nothing more to add?
Maybe the importance of all this is less now for 801 owners, given
that there's a newer design extended horizontal tail (stab &
elevator) that presumably is beefed up over both the original short
span tail and the Flypass elevator extansion?
I don't have any particular angle on all this; I was just curious
about the implications of a couple recent posts mentioning the accident.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the F
aa that was doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went
strictly by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him
I was a current builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen
other builders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thse
s planes I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I
look over the wreckage either by myself or with you present, he sa
id they were about to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that
I would need to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old
daughter was not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the air
plane wrecking yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the
, at that time, current charges of retrieval and storage which was then
1845.00$ I could come look at it and then to call the insurance company
to try to buy the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to
California to look. </P>
<P>Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so
we set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we kn
ew. I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wr
eckage for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was t
alking about. </P>
<P>Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing
aerobatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the eleva
tor is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little p
ins on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle
pieces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading
of the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the el
evator and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing
it off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings
in the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ mi
les till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plan
e that flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an a
rea but the 14,000 agl that Mark mentioned explains that.</P>
<P>What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizon
tal stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip
extensions.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>signs and it&n
bsp;would be impractical to develop <BR>design&
nbsp;standards for the wide variety of des
ign configurations, <BR>created by designers, k
it manufacturers, and amateur builders."
So <BR>in the end they are seem to&nb
sp;be saying, "looking at the structural <
BR>failure in detail is not our problem".<
BR><BR>The NTSB report didn't state that t
he pilot was "heavily impaired by <BR>narc
otics", but said that chemical traces were
consistent with <BR>smoking at least one&
nbsp;joint within 12 hours. They were tryi
ng to be <BR>somewhat precise, since for&n
bsp;the passenger, they said the same but&
nbsp;<BR>within 2 hours. So unless there's 
;other evidence, I wouldn't call the <BR>p
ilot "heavily" impaired, although one can
still make inferences <BR>about his attitude&nb
sp;towards the flight if one wishes.<BR><BR>Bac
k when the accident happened, it sounded&n
bsp;like Ben Haas was hoping <BR>to examin
e the wreckage or otherwise get further&nb
sp;info from the <BR>investigators, but I
guess no further info could be obtained?&n
bsp;<BR>Presumably Zenair had nothing more to&n
bsp;add?<BR><BR>Maybe the importance of all thi
s is less now for 801 owners, given&n
bsp;<BR>that there's a newer design extended&nb
sp;horizontal tail (stab & <BR>elevator) th
at presumably is beefed up over both
the original short <BR>span tail and the&n
bsp;Flypass elevator extansion?<BR><BR>I don't have&
nbsp;any particular angle on all this; I&n
bsp;was just curious <BR>about the implications
of a couple recent posts mentioning
the accident.<BR><BR><BR>Peter Chapman<BR>Toronto, ON&nbs
========================
-- Please Support&nb
p; (And Get Som
;November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.&
link below to find out more about<BR
nbsp; * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.c
bsp; * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com<BR
;  
;  
========================
========================
sp; - The Zenith-List Email F
p;List utilities such as the Subscriptions 
========================
========================
=====<BR><BR><BR><BR></P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
Is that 11 "dog " years in building? I admire someone that can stick to
anything for that long. I better get mine done in 2 or no longer than 3
years. My attention span is not that great.
DON NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Gustafson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other
types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh
at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but
each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about
it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected
. I just closed the second wing a few days ago.
I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I
find they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The
Tinman (TM Technologies)
Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next month.
Fly in spring???
do not archive this message just remember it!
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: Matronics List
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed
by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous bsp;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
======================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 12/4/2006
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
William:=0A=0AHere's my advice on building your own tanks - Make them thic
ker and take them to someone to have them TIG-welded. Or buy a TIG welder
and do it yourself. =0A=0AI made mine to the plans and every welder I talk
ed to wanted them thicker. I finally found a guy who did a great job on th
em but advised next time to make them thicker. Gas welding them would be a
real trick. I can gas weld steel just fine, but aluminum is really tricky
and I've managed to ruin several pieces of aluminum with gas-welding. =0A
=0AMost of the advice I received was to make them .050" minimum. I've look
ed at other aluminum wing tanks and they are at least .050" thick. =0A=0AF
ind a local welder (like a speed shop) and get some advice before buying yo
ur aluminum for the tanks. =0A=0AGood luck,=0A=0AScott Laughlin=0AHack wel
der=0AOmaha, Nebraska=0A601XL/Corvair=0Awww.cooknwithgas.com=0A=0A----- Ori
ginal Message ----=0AFrom: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>=0A=0ASubj
ect: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.=0A=0A What type of filler ro
ds should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A____________
________________________________________________________________________=0A
Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.=0AAsk your qu
estion on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
I can' believe I spelled do wrong. Do I get archived if it's misspelled?
I thinking I'm talking to my self here. I better go to work.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
Is that 11 "dog " years in building? I admire someone that can stick
to anything for that long. I better get mine done in 2 or no longer than
3 years. My attention span is not that great.
DON NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Gustafson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other
types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh
at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but
each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about
it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected
. I just closed the second wing a few days ago.
I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I
find they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The
Tinman (TM Technologies)
Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next
month. Fly in spring???
do not archive this message just remember it!
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: Matronics List
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed
by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous bsp;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
======================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Date: 12/4/2006
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
William,
Try a 4043 or a 5356 filler rod for what you're doing. You'll find gas
welding is very much like riding a unicycle in the dark and it
takes a little more practice as you've got to be very quick in
recognizing the puddle. I burned up a 4 x 8 sheet of aluminum learning
to weld with the torch and only made one tank. If you have any
resources to purchase a TIG welder, I'd highly recommend it. They have
become much cheaper to own and operate as well as providing excellent
welds on mounts, gear and the like.
I'd also recommend you use 5052-H32 aluminum of .040 to .050 thickness
in lieu of 6061-T6. It's a much better alloy for a tank
and a little less costly material.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 3 TIG welded tanks at www.macsmachine.com
William Dominguez wrote:
> What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
> I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by
> the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami Florida
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 15
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Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it is,
it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience?
Dave: I have had no problem with lack of elevator. The trick is the proper
use of power at flare and getting the speed down on approach.
Tom
Message 16
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| Subject: | Thanks to all--camera thing |
Gentlemen,
Thanks to all who responded concerning selection of digital camera.
The non-photo-magazine reviews are certainly more objective.
Makes it easier for 'the Boss' to advise me.
Regards to all,
Zed
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Welding Practice |
Juan:
If you are interested in building a recumbent bike from scrap bikes, there are
a couple of web sites that might help you get started. Just search under recycled
recumbents.
Like Larry, I also built one as a welding and brazing project. It's a fun way
to sharpen skills and when done, you have a very comfortable bike.
do not archive
Cheers,
Bill
XL
________________________________________________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New information |
Good piloting Tim.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79320#79320
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
Hi William,
This sounds like a good question for your welding supply house.
The really important part of welding aluminum is a combination of a
huge flame (because the aluminum conducts heat just as well as
electricity) and to keep oxygen from the joint. I have never tried
this task, but I suspect you need a heavily reducing mixture of gases.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:51 AM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
>What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
>I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed
>by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami Florida
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks to all--camera thing |
>From all us listers with dial up connections:
The only camera feature we want you to be sure to get, is software to reduce
those 10 meg monsters to a reasonable size for the list. Looking forward to
the pics,
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas do not archive
> Thanks to all who responded concerning selection of digital camera.
>
Zed
>
> do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Question for gas welders. |
William
I wound up just about as frustrated as Scott on welding the tanks. I could
not do it. Several local welders who said they could actually couldn't. I gave
up. My new carbon fiber tanks will be ready for testing soon. They look good
and fit beautifully but have not been tested yet. I'll know a lot more in a
couple of weeks.
Carroll Jernigan
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Question for gas welders. |
I finally decided to rivet my tanks and am doing so now. If you would like
to see pics I would be glad to put on list. I am using Pro-Seal and Rivets
foe all parts I have done the fittings for two tanks and now I am starting
to rivet the body.
John Maselli
Still building ST801 on Long Island NY East Moriches
Spadaro's Intl Airport
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
William,
Try a 4043 or a 5356 filler rod for what you're doing. You'll find gas
welding is very much like riding a unicycle in the dark and it
takes a little more practice as you've got to be very quick in
recognizing the puddle. I burned up a 4 x 8 sheet of aluminum learning
to weld with the torch and only made one tank. If you have any
resources to purchase a TIG welder, I'd highly recommend it. They have
become much cheaper to own and operate as well as providing excellent
welds on mounts, gear and the like.
I'd also recommend you use 5052-H32 aluminum of .040 to .050 thickness
in lieu of 6061-T6. It's a much better alloy for a tank
and a little less costly material.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 3 TIG welded tanks at www.macsmachine.com
William Dominguez wrote:
> What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
> I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by
> the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami Florida
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 23
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|
The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages
long and contained 160KB.
The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it
again as well as those who think everything they write is humorous and
MUST be shared with the world.
When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for
each poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than
knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When
clicked on that link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct
correspondence with the poster. If you need to ask for info or respond
to an offer of pics/help, why not respond directly to the poster.
Wouldn't this make the list less encumbered with "I'd like to see that
too," or "I plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What's the wx
at your place?"
Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others
on this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly.
The list was never meant to be a chat-list.
No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant
in this country.
As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and
need to leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging.
Regards Jeff Small
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: welding aluminum |
List,
First of all, I am NOT very good at welding aluminum.
That said, I did purchase a TIG welder three years ago, and learned to join various
items.
As Larry mentioned, TIG is good. Takes practice and patience, and it helps if
you can get some instruction.
An elderly fellow, who claimed he could weld magnesium to Dynamite, showed me the
finer points of using a stainless steel brush to "clean, clean, and clean again".
Short version of this is: If it isn't clean, it won't TIG weld.
Seems that typical aluminum alloys melt at 1100 F while the oxide film you didn't
clean off won't melt until about 3300 degrees F.
After you learn to run a continuous arc across a clean area, then move that arc
to an area which still has the oxide film, you will quickly see the problem:
The base metal will melt and run out while the oxide film just gets hot and only
futher contaminates the puddle. Stainless steel brushes are a lot cheaper
than 6061.
Helps to have an 'electronic' welding hood.....you can see exactly where you're
about to make a mess before striking the arc.
I'd offer this: If you can weld steel, you can weld aluminum. You will have to
un-learn a few things; the most obvious being that, unlike steel, the aluminum
does NOT change color with heat.....it just changes from solid to liquid and
ruins your day. The aluminun could be compared to electrical solder; it "flows"
with sufficient heat. After you have melted several square feet of the 6061
you will develop an eye for this.
One other "tip" which I had to learn the hard way: Scrap aluminum picked up on
construction sites, etc, is not good practice material. There is no way of knowing
what was recycled to produce it. Cut-offs from door frames are examples.
That stuff was made to be bolted, not welded. I'm not sure it is actually
real aluminum.
Anyway, in summation, and according to the elderly fellow, if 'robots' can do it
you can do it if you clean it immediately prior to welding. Waiting even a
half-hour is too long.
Haven't tried welding two beer cans yet.
Regards,
Zed
absolutely do not archive stuff from Zed's Welding School!!
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
Hi Jeff,
I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but what's wrong with injecting
a little humor and talk along with the "facts". I look forward to
reading the list every day. I don't agree with everyone, but no one
should. Once in awhile there is a discussion that comes as close to a
fist fight as you can get without actually being there. Kind of liven
things up a bit. I haven't been on the list for more than a few months
but feel like I already know some of the people here. I don't
necessarily like every thing that is written but I can just delete
whatever that might be. I kind of got in trouble a little while back for
bringing up something a certain military person said about something
in a certain conflict in a certain country, do I don't do that any more.
For what it's worth, this list seems like a lot of hangar talk just like
you would do at the airport, or for that matter where any pilots get
together. A lot of BS, good information, personal opinions, etc., etc.
I, for one, really enjoy it all. In fact, I actually look forward to
reading all the emails every day. I don't usually respond to this kind
of stuff on the list. It's probably none of my business anyway, I've
taken up enough space without any pertinent information to give. Have a
good day.
Dave in Salem
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Small
To: zenith-list
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: unbelievable!
The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages
long and contained 160KB.
The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it
again as well as those who think everything they write is humorous and
MUST be shared with the world.
When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for
each poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than
knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When
clicked on that link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct
correspondence with the poster. If you need to ask for info or respond
to an offer of pics/help, why not respond directly to the poster.
Wouldn't this make the list less encumbered with "I'd like to see that
too," or "I plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What's the wx
at your place?"
Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others
on this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly.
The list was never meant to be a chat-list.
No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant
in this country.
As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and
need to leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging.
Regards Jeff Small
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: 801 stabilizer |
So, it might just be a matter of skill and technique, or a lack of it?
Dave
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 stabilizer
>
>
> Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it is,
> it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience?
>
> Dave: I have had no problem with lack of elevator. The trick is the
> proper
> use of power at flare and getting the speed down on approach.
> Tom
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Welding Practice |
Hey!!
This isn't airplane stuff. What's the big idea!!!
I have to go to work now.
DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: thesumak@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Welding Practice
Juan:
If you are interested in building a recumbent bike from scrap bikes,
there are a couple of web sites that might help you get started. Just
search under recycled recumbents.
Like Larry, I also built one as a welding and brazing project. It's a
fun way to sharpen skills and when done, you have a very comfortable
bike.
do not archive
Cheers,
Bill
XL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Camera question |
Zed . . . whatever you do, get a camera that doesn't have a shutter
lag. Required for lively grandbabies and slow planes. I just read an
article in todays WSJ that the new SLR's have eliminated this problem.
If possible go to a custom camera store and ask to take the camera
outside to take pics of street traffic. FWIW I have a FUJI which was
the state of the art a few years ago, and the camera lag drives me
nuts. Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive.
Zed Smith wrote:
>
> List,
>
> Anybody using a relatively new 8 to 10 mb digital camera?
> I've been given the 'OK' to upgrade my off-brand point-and-shoot to something
more suitable for capturing a pair of year-old grandsons. Obviously a new camera
would also probably take neat airplane pictures, too.
> Really don't think I want to go the SLR route.....too much temptation to buy
more lenses. Been there, done that with film; and after finally getting rid of
all the bodies, lenses, darkroom equipment, junk, etc, I'd just rather have
a nice multi-mega pixel non-removable-lens unit. We're not talking Hasselblad
here!
>
> I pose the question here simply because all the online reviews are slanted toward
selling photo gear; that's what magazines do.
>
> Suggestions appreciated, and if she gets a new photo for her screen saver every
week I can probably continue
> sleeping in the house.
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/do not archive in Northern Hemisphere or mention ScotchBrite
pads
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | 601 Landing Gear Height |
Hello, List,
In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the reviewer
discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a taller
gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings. Does
anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is?
Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who makes
their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea)
I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex generators.
They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck angle on landing
to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too.
Thanks in advance,
John Collins
---------------------------------
Message 30
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|
Thanks for the tip, Robert.
I already had that item near the top of my list.
It's not only the 'lag' factor, but a slow lens just compounds the problem when
the little ruffians move about.
Thanks again,
Zed
do not archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | RE: Question for gas welders. |
I TIG welded my LE tanks and my header tank. I made the wing tanks out of 5052
.032, and the header tank out of 6061 .025 (as per plans). If I were to do
it all again, I would make them out of at least .040. I did notice that 5052
was slightly easier to weld, but was a full time 6061 welder as a teenager, so
it was not a problem. The problem is how thin the material is. Thicker is MUCH
easier. I used to weld aluminum soda cans together for fun, but can barely
get a nice bead on .025 now. Go thicker - the weight penalty for this size
of tank is neglegible.
VR/
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Ends |
Larry and Wayne,
The print shows the edges coming together like the picture below and has a notation
"BEAD WELD ALL FLANGE SEAMS". This should make it easier to fuse the materials
while adding filler rod and it should also make a really strong joint.
I'm not to sure about the methods you are speaking of so I will probally make
it like the print. I am still open for suggestions.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79427#79427
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: New information |
Tim, for all us that have not experienced your event yet let me say we are
all glad and happy you made it okay ! Best regards and get her back up, Bill of
Georgia
601XL-3300
100 hours
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
I'm with Dave. Bill of Georgia
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 35
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| Subject: | Wing walk tread strip |
Hi guys,
I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be cut
to three pieces
to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the grit is
and wishing
there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've
concerns about it staying
where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased it
this week instead of
3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well.
Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something that
once on has had
no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year after
year. I'd like to hear
from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right stuff.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 36
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| Subject: | Wing walk tread strip |
Hi Larry
I used skateboard grip tape. It has held great for 2 years now. I went with
clear but should have used black. Clear doesnt stay clear for long. I got
the stuff at blackholeboards.com at least I think that was the link.
Relatively inexpensive too.
Regards
John
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip
>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:14:44 -0600
>
>
>Hi guys,
>I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be cut to
>three pieces
>to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the grit is and
>wishing
>there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've concerns
>about it staying
>where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased it this
>week instead of
>3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well.
>
>Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something that
>once on has had
>no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year after
>year. I'd like to hear
>from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right stuff.
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Landing Gear Height |
John
I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to say that
in hind sight, it was probably a mistake.
You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad taller, and
MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL plans call for a gear
that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19 3/4" tall. The plans
call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the composite gear is only 69 1/2"
wide if you follow the manufacturers installation instructions (which by the way
are scant).
In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it takes a
significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2 parts which must
be bolted to the air frame.
Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts.
The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight!
ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go direct to them at www.comlet.cz
Take care.
Dan Dempsey
> Hello, List,
>
> In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the reviewer
discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a taller
gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings. Does
anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is?
>
> Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who makes
their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea)
>
> I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex generators.
They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck angle on landing
to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> John Collins
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Ends |
Ron,
Give it a whirl and let us know how it comes out. I sure would like to know.
I really hope you get it worked out. My problem was with the weld cracking.
I would get one spot fixed and pressure test at about 1/2" water column and
it would let go somewhere else. I tried annealing and everything I could think
of. It just appeared to me that there wasn't enough meat or weld to take any
stress at all. Be sure and let us know how it works out.
Wayne
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Landing Gear Height |
Dan,
I also ordered and received the Comlet 2 pc gear for my 701. I was
interested in replacing my aluminum gear to reduce the weight of my 701. I was
under
the impression that this was a direct replacement gear, NOT. I am not
interested in redesigning the undercarriage and contacted ACS of my displeasure
that
this gear will not fit without major redesign work. They wrote me back saying
they were going to contact the manufacturer, but I haven't heard anything
yet. This was over one month ago. I guess it is time to write again to find out
what is going on. I would have loved to use the gear but not since I have I
have already finished building and painting.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH701/912S/87+hrs
hoping the snow will hold off for a while
In a message dated 12/5/2006 9:13:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
leinad@hughes.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
John
I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to say
that in hind sight, it was probably a mistake.
You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad taller,
and MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL plans call for
a gear that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19 3/4" tall. The
plans call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the composite gear is only 69
1/2" wide if you follow the manufacturers installation instructions (which
by the way are scant).
In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it takes
a significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2 parts
which must be bolted to the air frame.
Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts.
The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight!
ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go direct
to them at www.comlet.cz
Take care.
Dan Dempsey
> Hello, List,
>
> In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the
reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a
taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings.
Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is?
>
> Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who
makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea)
>
> I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex
generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck
angle
on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> John Collins
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
Larry, the stuff I put on mine was not the usual paper-backed stuff.
While on the hunt to find the usual I ran across some vinyl-based
treads trip that's normally used in shower stalls. I put on 2 thin
strips on either side and it works perfectly. Also, since it's vinyl
it won't deteriorate after washing. I bought it at a local hardware
store in the plumbing section.
P.S. Mine is grey so it fits in perfectly with my colour scheme.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:14 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi guys,
> I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be
> cut to three pieces
> to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the
> grit is and wishing
> there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've
> concerns about it staying
> where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased
> it this week instead of
> 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well.
>
> Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something
> that once on has had
> no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year
> after year. I'd like to hear
> from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right
> stuff.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | 601 Landing Gear Height |
I just checked my Grove gear to compare. It's about 20-3/4" high and 73"
wide. It saves about 11 pounds ( 32 instead of 43).
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:11 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height
>
> John
> I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to
> say that in hind sight, it was probably a mistake.
>
> You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad
> taller, and MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL
> plans call for a gear that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19
> 3/4" tall. The plans call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the
> composite gear is only 69 1/2" wide if you follow the manufacturers
> installation instructions (which by the way are scant).
>
> In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it
> takes a significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2
> parts which must be bolted to the air frame.
>
> Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts.
>
> The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight!
>
> ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go
> direct to them at www.comlet.cz
>
> Take care.
> Dan Dempsey
>
>
>> Hello, List,
>>
>> In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the
>> reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have
>> a taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall
>> landings. Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the
>> difference is?
>>
>> Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear?
>> Who makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea)
>>
>> I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex
>> generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher
>> deck angle on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is
>> important there, too.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> John Collins
>
>
> --------
> Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Wing walk tread strip |
Ray Allen Company (of trim servo fame) offers a non-gritty wing walk
material. I bought some but have not installed it yet. I can mail you a
small sample if you would like. Look at the bottom of
www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. Spruce sells it but I
have had no problem ordering direct from RAC and they sell it for less!
WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL
Ray Allen wing walks are a low profile, high quality, self-adhesive,
non-slip material. The rubbery texture feels much better to the touch (and
the knees) than the gritty, sandpaper-like material commonly used for wing
walks in the past.
One strip of wing walk material measures 26 1/2"(67.3 cm) x 9 1/2"(24.1 cm).
This can easily be cut down in size to suit your own application.
Installation is simple, just peel off the backing paper and press it down on
your wing.
$17
This material can also be cut in any length and up to 53" (1.34 m) in width.
Call for custom sizes.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Wing walk tread strip |
Skateboard grip-tape. Very rugged. Get what they call dog-bite (very fine
grit). Grit will not come loose, trust me. My brother could go through 20
pair of shoes; 6 pair of jeans; several layers of skin and his tape would
still have plenty of grip. Sticks like you would not believe! Make sure you
don't lay it down where you don't want it.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip
Ray Allen Company (of trim servo fame) offers a non-gritty wing walk
material. I bought some but have not installed it yet. I can mail you a
small sample if you would like. Look at the bottom of
www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. Spruce sells it but I
have had no problem ordering direct from RAC and they sell it for less!
WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL
Ray Allen wing walks are a low profile, high quality, self-adhesive,
non-slip material. The rubbery texture feels much better to the touch (and
the knees) than the gritty, sandpaper-like material commonly used for wing
walks in the past.
One strip of wing walk material measures 26 1/2"(67.3 cm) x 9 1/2"(24.1 cm).
This can easily be cut down in size to suit your own application.
Installation is simple, just peel off the backing paper and press it down on
your wing.
$17
This material can also be cut in any length and up to 53" (1.34 m) in width.
Call for custom sizes.
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
I used the black 3M brand adhesive backed tread tape in 4" width.
I've had no trouble with it coming loose in over 100 hours of use. It
can be peeled off with a bit of effort but it doesn't come loose on
its own. I first applied a couple of strips on the wing walk with a
space between them but later I decided to cover the entire wing root
out to about a foot from the fuselage. I peeled off the old stuff and
put new stuff on. Even after removal the adhesive on the old stuff
was still very sticky. In fact I even reused some of the old stuff
to fill in around the curve of the fuselage and on the boarding step.
It's still holding strong.
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi guys,
> I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be
> cut to three pieces
> to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the
> grit is and wishing
> there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've
> concerns about it staying
> where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased
> it this week instead of
> 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well.
>
> Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something
> that once on has had
> no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year
> after year. I'd like to hear
> from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right
> stuff.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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