---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/05/06: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:22 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Ends (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 2. 05:10 AM - Re: Forward Skin Access (ALAN BEYER) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: 801 Elevator Extension (Tom Faulkner) 4. 05:49 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak (Trevor Page) 5. 05:51 AM - Question for gas welders. (William Dominguez) 6. 05:54 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak (Carl Bertrand) 7. 06:25 AM - Re: 801 Elevator Extension (Dave Ruddiman) 8. 06:27 AM - Re: 701 POH (Joe and Joan) 9. 06:46 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Aaron Gustafson) 10. 06:47 AM - Re: 801 inflight breakup in 2003 (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 06:58 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Dave Ruddiman) 12. 07:16 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (N5SL) 13. 07:36 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Dave Ruddiman) 14. 07:36 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (LarryMcFarland) 15. 07:47 AM - 801 stabilizer (Tom Faulkner) 16. 08:30 AM - Thanks to all--camera thing (Zed Smith) 17. 08:45 AM - Welding Practice (thesumak@aol.com) 18. 08:46 AM - Re: New information (Gig Giacona) 19. 09:06 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Paul Mulwitz) 20. 09:06 AM - Re: Thanks to all--camera thing (Randy L. Thwing) 21. 09:13 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Trainnut01@aol.com) 22. 09:47 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Johns optonline account) 23. 10:57 AM - unbelievable! (Jeff Small) 24. 11:23 AM - Re: welding aluminum (Zed Smith) 25. 12:04 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Dave Ruddiman) 26. 12:11 PM - Re: 801 stabilizer (Dave Ruddiman) 27. 12:16 PM - Re: Welding Practice (Dave Ruddiman) 28. 12:59 PM - Re: Camera question (Robert Schoenberger) 29. 01:00 PM - 601 Landing Gear Height (John Collins) 30. 01:25 PM - Re:Shutter lag (Zed Smith) 31. 01:29 PM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Brandon Tucker) 32. 02:33 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Ends (Ron Lendon) 33. 04:10 PM - Re: New information (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM) 34. 04:13 PM - Re: unbelievable! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 35. 05:16 PM - Wing walk tread strip (LarryMcFarland) 36. 05:39 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (john H) 37. 06:11 PM - Re: 601 Landing Gear Height (leinad) 38. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Ends (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 39. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height (NYTerminat@aol.com) 40. 06:58 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Trevor Page) 41. 07:17 PM - 601 Landing Gear Height (Robin Bellach) 42. 07:42 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Craig Payne) 43. 10:10 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (kevinbonds) 44. 10:47 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:10 AM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Ends I agree with Ron. I tried to make tamks for my 701 just like the drawings....... three days later, half a sheet of aluminum, a bottle of argon and half a pound of rod later I threw it in the floor. Then I stomped it. Made the next tank out of .032 and turned the flange on the tank ends in. Made it just like Ron said and in one evening I had a tank that didn't leak. I used 6061-T6 only because I didn't want to wait for the 5052. Wayne Clagg CH701, left wing done, starting on right. do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:03 AM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access Juan,=0A=0AThis is the first plane I have built. The fit is because of a l ot of extra time. Most of the stuff on my plane is the same. The factory was a little wrong on the 400 Hrs. to buid it (I have over 2700 Hrs. build time. If I would have counted a little closer it might be nearer to 3000 Hr s.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AAl from Oshkosh=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: Juan Vega =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics. com=0ASent: Monday, December 4, 2006 9:27:04 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: amyvega2005@earthlink.net>=0A=0Athat is the cleanest job I have seen. Obvi ously you have built before. HOw did you get such smooth cuts on the frame in the first picture?=0A=0AI believe that is the frame for the cover?=0A =0AJuan=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A>From: ALAN BEYER =0A>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 9:50 PM=0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>S ubject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>=0A>Hi Guys,=0A>=0A>Here ar e some pics of my inspection covers. I used floating nut plates.=0A>=0A>A l from Oshkosh=0A>601 HDS=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----=0A>Fro m: Juan Vega =0A>To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, December 4, 2006 5:21:09 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: =0A>=0A>chuck,=0A>got any pics to share?=0A>=0A >Juanm=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: Charles Wacker =0A>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 4:30 PM=0A>>To: zenith-list@matronics.c om=0A>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>=0A>>--> Zenith-Li st message posted by: "Charles Wacker" =0A>>=0A>>I ha ve made mine removabale with nut plates. I modified the top plate so =0A>>t hat the part that covers the canopy hinge stays with the fuselage taht way =0A>>the canopy does not need to be removed.=0A>>=0A>>Chuck Wacker=0A>>N601 CW Quick Build=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>>From: Juan Vega m=0A>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:03:15 -0500 (GMT-05:00)=0A>>>=0A>>>--> Zenith-List message posted b y: Juan Vega =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Jay,=0A>>>=0A>>>t hat looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire =0A>>>piece on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing =0A>>>something that would not make that possible? I think yours maybe bet ter =0A>>>idea becasue you don't have to remove the canopy. I am also thin king of =0A>>>cutting and trimming the "head chopping" sun leadge on the pa nel, and =0A>>>replacing it with a leather one like on Cessnas. I found a place that can =0A>>>custom make one for cheap price. ANy thoughts?=0A>>> =0A>>>Juan=0A>>>=0A>>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>> >From: Jaybannist@cs .com=0A>>> >Sent: Dec 4, 2006 2:14 PM=0A>>> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A>>> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access=0A>>> >=0A>>> >Jaun, Let me know what you think. - Jay=0A>>> >=0A>>> >=0A>>> >Juan Vega wrote:=0A>>> >=0A>>> >>--> Zenith-List message posted b y: Juan Vega =0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Jay,=0A>>> >>plea se shoot me an email of the panel, i'd love a copy.=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Jvega@ carterusa.com=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Juan Vega, Jr.=0A>>> >>Senior Vice President , Brokerage Services=0A>>> >>CARTER ONCOR International=0A>>> >>Cell: 813-7 84-7312=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>Juan Vega=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>-----Original Message-- ---=0A>>> >>>From: Jaybannist@cs.com=0A>>> >>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 1:16 PM=0A> >> >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A>>> >>>Subject: Zenith-List: Forward t@cs.com=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>>I am in the process of adding an access panel t o the forward top skin, =0A>>>to be able to access the back side of the ins trument panel after =0A>>>construction is complete. This is for a 601XL. I have a drawing in pdf =0A>>>format showing how I am doing this. If you w ould like to see the drawing, =0A>>>please contact me directly.=0A>>> >>> =0A>>> >>>Jay in Dallas=0A>>> >>>Do not archive=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> > >>=0A>>> >>>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>> >>=0A>>>=0A >>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>____________________________________________ _____________________=0A>>View Athlete?s Collections with Live Search =0A>> http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MG ================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:28 AM PST US From: "Tom Faulkner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension Dave: Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May 2004. I decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done. I made the first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the shorter stab, so have no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to the new size. The reason given for the change was that most builders were using larger engines with more weight. Tom Faulkner N801TP ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:14 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 Oil Leak Perhaps a bad seal on the PTO? Have you checked the gasket on the fuel pump housing? The fuel pump is driven by the gearbox so maybe you have a leak there.. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Dec 4, 2006, at 11:55 PM, john H wrote: > > Hi List > I have a very small oil leak on a 912 (200hrs) which is aggravating > the heck out of me. After flying I have a little oil showing up > around the fuel pump, around the gear box and blowing back on the > battery box on the firewall. I just can't seem to find the leak. > Oil pressure is fine. Any ideas anyone?? > Thanks > John > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces > friends list. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:27 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:56 AM PST US From: "Carl Bertrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 Oil Leak Hi John, Had a simmilar problem and traced it to the fuel pump gasket/spacer. A dab of hi temp sealer solved the problem. Carl 701 912 with 450 hrs. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:05 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension Hi Tom, Thanks for the information. I was getting one part mixed up with the other. I was thinking that the elevator itself was extended back. Like the nose to the trailing edge, where the trim tab goes, was made longer. Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it is, it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Faulkner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:30 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension Dave: Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May 2004. I decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done. I made the first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the shorter stab, so have no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to the new size. The reason given for the change was that most builders were using larger engines with more weight. Tom Faulkner N801TP ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:51 AM PST US From: "Joe and Joan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH Juan, I could not find the POH on the zenith aircraft company list. I do not have their DVD. Do I need to buy it to get a POH. DO NOT ARCHIVE. Would appreciate more info on how to get a copy. One of the dudes from FL. Flying CH 701 912S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH > > > Dudes, > if you go on line or get a DVD disk from zenith, they have a copy of the > Chech rotax powered POH. you can use that as a template then inject > usefull tidbits of info in your own to customize it. Example" here in > florida I put in the POH Pretake off check list "prior to entering active > runway, make certain no Alligators in eccess of ten feet in length are on > runway", once that is checked I then go to "confirm Coyotes are off the > taxiway prior to taxiing to active". True Story to both. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: nyterminat@aol.com >>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:16 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH >> >>Larry, >> >>You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok >> >>Bob Spudis >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: lrm@skyhawg.com >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH >> >> >>Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may >>already have one. >> >>Larry, www.skyhawg.com >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Tebenkof@aol.com >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM >>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH >> >> >>Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the >>POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the >>fact that the paper work is not. >> >>Jim Greenough >>701 / 99.5321% complete >>in Portland OR >> >> >>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron >> >> >> >>Date: 11/28/2006 >> >> >> >>________________________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:13 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected . I just closed the second wing a few days ago. I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I find they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The Tinman (TM Technologies) Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next month. Fly in spring??? do not archive this message just remember it! ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: Matronics List Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/4/2006 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:14 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 inflight breakup in 2003 Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the Faa that w as doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went strictly by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him I was a c urrent builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen other bui lders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thses planes I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I look over the wreckage either by myself or with you present, he said they were a bout to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that I would need to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old daughter was not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the airplane wrecking yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the, at that time , current charges of retrieval and storage which was then 1845.00$ I cou ld come look at it and then to call the insurance company to try to buy the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to California to look. Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so we set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we knew. I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wreck age for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was talk ing about. Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing aer obatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the elevator is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little pins on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle pi eces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading of the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the eleva tor and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing it off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings in the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ miles till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plane t hat flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an area but the 14,000 agl that Mark mentioned explains that. What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizontal stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip ex tensions. signs and it would be impractical to develop design standards for the wide variety of design configurations, created by designers, kit manufacturers, and amateur builders." So in the end they are seem to be saying, "looking at the structural failure in detail is not our problem". The NTSB report didn't state that the pilot was "heavily impaired by narcotics", but said that chemical traces were consistent with smoking at least one joint within 12 hours. They were trying to be somewhat precise, since for the passenger, they said the same but within 2 hours. So unless there's other evidence, I wouldn't call the pilot "heavily" impaired, although one can still make inferences about his attitude towards the flight if one wishes. Back when the accident happened, it sounded like Ben Haas was hoping to examine the wreckage or otherwise get further info from the investigators, but I guess no further info could be obtained? Presumably Zenair had nothing more to add? Maybe the importance of all this is less now for 801 owners, given that there's a newer design extended horizontal tail (stab & elevator) that presumably is beefed up over both the original short span tail and the Flypass elevator extansion? I don't have any particular angle on all this; I was just curious about the implications of a couple recent posts mentioning the accident. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the F aa that was doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went strictly by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him I was a current builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen other builders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thse s planes I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I look over the wreckage either by myself or with  you present, he sa id they were about to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that I would need to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old daughter was not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the air plane wrecking yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the , at that time, current charges of retrieval and storage which was then 1845.00$ I could come look at it and then to call the insurance company to try to buy the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to California to look.

Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so we set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we kn ew. I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wr eckage for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was t alking about.

Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing aerobatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the eleva tor is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little p ins on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle pieces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading of the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the el evator and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing it off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings in the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ mi les till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plan e that flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an a rea but the 14,000  agl that Mark mentioned explains that.

What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizon tal stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip extensions.


























signs and it&n bsp;would be impractical to develop 
design& nbsp;standards for the wide variety of des ign configurations, 
created by designers, k it manufacturers, and amateur builders."   So 
in the end they are seem to&nb sp;be saying, "looking at the structural < BR>failure in detail is not our problem".< BR>
The NTSB report didn't state that t he pilot was "heavily impaired by 
narc otics", but said that chemical traces were  consistent with 
smoking at least one& nbsp;joint within 12 hours. They were tryi ng to be 
somewhat precise, since for&n bsp;the passenger, they said the same but& nbsp;
within 2 hours. So unless there's  ;other evidence, I wouldn't call the 
p ilot "heavily" impaired, although one can  still make inferences 
about his attitude&nb sp;towards the flight if one wishes.

Bac k when the accident happened, it sounded&n bsp;like Ben Haas was hoping 
to examin e the wreckage or otherwise get further&nb sp;info from the 
investigators, but I  guess no further info could be obtained?&n bsp;
Presumably Zenair had nothing more to&n bsp;add?

Maybe the importance of all thi s is less now for 801 owners, given&n bsp;
that there's a newer design extended&nb sp;horizontal tail (stab & 
elevator) th at presumably is beefed up over both  the original short 
span tail and the&n bsp;Flypass elevator extansion?

I don't have& nbsp;any particular angle on all this; I&n bsp;was just curious 
about the implications  of a couple recent posts mentioning  the accident.


Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON&nbs ========================        -- Please Support&nb p;        (And Get Som ;November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.&  link below to find out more about
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:45 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. Is that 11 "dog " years in building? I admire someone that can stick to anything for that long. I better get mine done in 2 or no longer than 3 years. My attention span is not that great. DON NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Gustafson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected . I just closed the second wing a few days ago. I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I find they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The Tinman (TM Technologies) Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next month. Fly in spring??? do not archive this message just remember it! ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: Matronics List Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous bsp; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ====================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 12/4/2006 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:26 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. William:=0A=0AHere's my advice on building your own tanks - Make them thic ker and take them to someone to have them TIG-welded. Or buy a TIG welder and do it yourself. =0A=0AI made mine to the plans and every welder I talk ed to wanted them thicker. I finally found a guy who did a great job on th em but advised next time to make them thicker. Gas welding them would be a real trick. I can gas weld steel just fine, but aluminum is really tricky and I've managed to ruin several pieces of aluminum with gas-welding. =0A =0AMost of the advice I received was to make them .050" minimum. I've look ed at other aluminum wing tanks and they are at least .050" thick. =0A=0AF ind a local welder (like a speed shop) and get some advice before buying yo ur aluminum for the tanks. =0A=0AGood luck,=0A=0AScott Laughlin=0AHack wel der=0AOmaha, Nebraska=0A601XL/Corvair=0Awww.cooknwithgas.com=0A=0A----- Ori ginal Message ----=0AFrom: William Dominguez =0A=0ASubj ect: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.=0A=0A What type of filler ro ds should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A____________ ________________________________________________________________________=0A Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.=0AAsk your qu estion on www.Answers.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:38 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. I can' believe I spelled do wrong. Do I get archived if it's misspelled? I thinking I'm talking to my self here. I better go to work. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. Is that 11 "dog " years in building? I admire someone that can stick to anything for that long. I better get mine done in 2 or no longer than 3 years. My attention span is not that great. DON NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Gustafson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. It took me 1 1/2 years to finally get it. And I have done most other types of welding, brazing and soldering. I went to the forum at Oshkosh at least 3 times. I gave up many times saying "I can't do this" but each time I would come back in a few days or weeks after thinking about it and try something different, and one by one I got the bugs corrected . I just closed the second wing a few days ago. I ended by using the rods that Wicks sells for aluminum welding. I find they work just as well on both 3003 or 6061. Used the flux from The Tinman (TM Technologies) Aaron Gustafson 601 HDTD plans Cont. 0-200 11 years next month. Fly in spring??? do not archive this message just remember it! ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: Matronics List Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous bsp; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ====================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Date: 12/4/2006 href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:38 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. William, Try a 4043 or a 5356 filler rod for what you're doing. You'll find gas welding is very much like riding a unicycle in the dark and it takes a little more practice as you've got to be very quick in recognizing the puddle. I burned up a 4 x 8 sheet of aluminum learning to weld with the torch and only made one tank. If you have any resources to purchase a TIG welder, I'd highly recommend it. They have become much cheaper to own and operate as well as providing excellent welds on mounts, gear and the like. I'd also recommend you use 5052-H32 aluminum of .040 to .050 thickness in lieu of 6061-T6. It's a much better alloy for a tank and a little less costly material. Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 3 TIG welded tanks at www.macsmachine.com William Dominguez wrote: > What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? > I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by > the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:23 AM PST US From: "Tom Faulkner" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 stabilizer Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it is, it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience? Dave: I have had no problem with lack of elevator. The trick is the proper use of power at flare and getting the speed down on approach. Tom ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:27 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Thanks to all--camera thing Gentlemen, Thanks to all who responded concerning selection of digital camera. The non-photo-magazine reviews are certainly more objective. Makes it easier for 'the Boss' to advise me. Regards to all, Zed do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Welding Practice From: thesumak@aol.com Juan: If you are interested in building a recumbent bike from scrap bikes, there are a couple of web sites that might help you get started. Just search under recycled recumbents. Like Larry, I also built one as a welding and brazing project. It's a fun way to sharpen skills and when done, you have a very comfortable bike. do not archive Cheers, Bill XL ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New information From: "Gig Giacona" Good piloting Tim. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79320#79320 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:50 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. Hi William, This sounds like a good question for your welding supply house. The really important part of welding aluminum is a combination of a huge flame (because the aluminum conducts heat just as well as electricity) and to keep oxygen from the joint. I have never tried this task, but I suspect you need a heavily reducing mixture of gases. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 05:51 AM 12/5/2006, you wrote: >What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? >I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed >by the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida > > --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:54 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thanks to all--camera thing >From all us listers with dial up connections: The only camera feature we want you to be sure to get, is software to reduce those 10 meg monsters to a reasonable size for the list. Looking forward to the pics, Regards, Randy, Las Vegas do not archive > Thanks to all who responded concerning selection of digital camera. > Zed > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:52 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. William I wound up just about as frustrated as Scott on welding the tanks. I could not do it. Several local welders who said they could actually couldn't. I gave up. My new carbon fiber tanks will be ready for testing soon. They look good and fit beautifully but have not been tested yet. I'll know a lot more in a couple of weeks. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:26 AM PST US From: Johns optonline account Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. I finally decided to rivet my tanks and am doing so now. If you would like to see pics I would be glad to put on list. I am using Pro-Seal and Rivets foe all parts I have done the fittings for two tanks and now I am starting to rivet the body. John Maselli Still building ST801 on Long Island NY East Moriches Spadaro's Intl Airport -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders. William, Try a 4043 or a 5356 filler rod for what you're doing. You'll find gas welding is very much like riding a unicycle in the dark and it takes a little more practice as you've got to be very quick in recognizing the puddle. I burned up a 4 x 8 sheet of aluminum learning to weld with the torch and only made one tank. If you have any resources to purchase a TIG welder, I'd highly recommend it. They have become much cheaper to own and operate as well as providing excellent welds on mounts, gear and the like. I'd also recommend you use 5052-H32 aluminum of .040 to .050 thickness in lieu of 6061-T6. It's a much better alloy for a tank and a little less costly material. Larry McFarland - 601HDS with 3 TIG welded tanks at www.macsmachine.com William Dominguez wrote: > What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6? > I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by > the time I have to make my tanks sometime next year. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:43 AM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: unbelievable! The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages long and contained 160KB. The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it again as well as those who think everything they write is humorous and MUST be shared with the world. When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for each poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When clicked on that link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct correspondence with the poster. If you need to ask for info or respond to an offer of pics/help, why not respond directly to the poster. Wouldn't this make the list less encumbered with "I'd like to see that too," or "I plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What's the wx at your place?" Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others on this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly. The list was never meant to be a chat-list. No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant in this country. As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and need to leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging. Regards Jeff Small ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:09 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: welding aluminum List, First of all, I am NOT very good at welding aluminum. That said, I did purchase a TIG welder three years ago, and learned to join various items. As Larry mentioned, TIG is good. Takes practice and patience, and it helps if you can get some instruction. An elderly fellow, who claimed he could weld magnesium to Dynamite, showed me the finer points of using a stainless steel brush to "clean, clean, and clean again". Short version of this is: If it isn't clean, it won't TIG weld. Seems that typical aluminum alloys melt at 1100 F while the oxide film you didn't clean off won't melt until about 3300 degrees F. After you learn to run a continuous arc across a clean area, then move that arc to an area which still has the oxide film, you will quickly see the problem: The base metal will melt and run out while the oxide film just gets hot and only futher contaminates the puddle. Stainless steel brushes are a lot cheaper than 6061. Helps to have an 'electronic' welding hood.....you can see exactly where you're about to make a mess before striking the arc. I'd offer this: If you can weld steel, you can weld aluminum. You will have to un-learn a few things; the most obvious being that, unlike steel, the aluminum does NOT change color with heat.....it just changes from solid to liquid and ruins your day. The aluminun could be compared to electrical solder; it "flows" with sufficient heat. After you have melted several square feet of the 6061 you will develop an eye for this. One other "tip" which I had to learn the hard way: Scrap aluminum picked up on construction sites, etc, is not good practice material. There is no way of knowing what was recycled to produce it. Cut-offs from door frames are examples. That stuff was made to be bolted, not welded. I'm not sure it is actually real aluminum. Anyway, in summation, and according to the elderly fellow, if 'robots' can do it you can do it if you clean it immediately prior to welding. Waiting even a half-hour is too long. Haven't tried welding two beer cans yet. Regards, Zed absolutely do not archive stuff from Zed's Welding School!! ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:50 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: unbelievable! Hi Jeff, I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but what's wrong with injecting a little humor and talk along with the "facts". I look forward to reading the list every day. I don't agree with everyone, but no one should. Once in awhile there is a discussion that comes as close to a fist fight as you can get without actually being there. Kind of liven things up a bit. I haven't been on the list for more than a few months but feel like I already know some of the people here. I don't necessarily like every thing that is written but I can just delete whatever that might be. I kind of got in trouble a little while back for bringing up something a certain military person said about something in a certain conflict in a certain country, do I don't do that any more. For what it's worth, this list seems like a lot of hangar talk just like you would do at the airport, or for that matter where any pilots get together. A lot of BS, good information, personal opinions, etc., etc. I, for one, really enjoy it all. In fact, I actually look forward to reading all the emails every day. I don't usually respond to this kind of stuff on the list. It's probably none of my business anyway, I've taken up enough space without any pertinent information to give. Have a good day. Dave in Salem DO NOT ARCHIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Small To: zenith-list Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:57 AM Subject: Zenith-List: unbelievable! The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages long and contained 160KB. The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it again as well as those who think everything they write is humorous and MUST be shared with the world. When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for each poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When clicked on that link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct correspondence with the poster. If you need to ask for info or respond to an offer of pics/help, why not respond directly to the poster. Wouldn't this make the list less encumbered with "I'd like to see that too," or "I plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What's the wx at your place?" Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others on this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly. The list was never meant to be a chat-list. No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant in this country. As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and need to leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging. Regards Jeff Small ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:16 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 stabilizer So, it might just be a matter of skill and technique, or a lack of it? Dave do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Faulkner" Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:47 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 801 stabilizer > > > Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it is, > it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience? > > Dave: I have had no problem with lack of elevator. The trick is the > proper > use of power at flare and getting the speed down on approach. > Tom > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:02 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Welding Practice Hey!! This isn't airplane stuff. What's the big idea!!! I have to go to work now. DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: thesumak@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Welding Practice Juan: If you are interested in building a recumbent bike from scrap bikes, there are a couple of web sites that might help you get started. Just search under recycled recumbents. Like Larry, I also built one as a welding and brazing project. It's a fun way to sharpen skills and when done, you have a very comfortable bike. do not archive Cheers, Bill XL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:24 PM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Camera question Zed . . . whatever you do, get a camera that doesn't have a shutter lag. Required for lively grandbabies and slow planes. I just read an article in todays WSJ that the new SLR's have eliminated this problem. If possible go to a custom camera store and ask to take the camera outside to take pics of street traffic. FWIW I have a FUJI which was the state of the art a few years ago, and the camera lag drives me nuts. Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive. Zed Smith wrote: > > List, > > Anybody using a relatively new 8 to 10 mb digital camera? > I've been given the 'OK' to upgrade my off-brand point-and-shoot to something more suitable for capturing a pair of year-old grandsons. Obviously a new camera would also probably take neat airplane pictures, too. > Really don't think I want to go the SLR route.....too much temptation to buy more lenses. Been there, done that with film; and after finally getting rid of all the bodies, lenses, darkroom equipment, junk, etc, I'd just rather have a nice multi-mega pixel non-removable-lens unit. We're not talking Hasselblad here! > > I pose the question here simply because all the online reviews are slanted toward selling photo gear; that's what magazines do. > > Suggestions appreciated, and if she gets a new photo for her screen saver every week I can probably continue > sleeping in the house. > > Zed/701/R912/90+%/do not archive in Northern Hemisphere or mention ScotchBrite pads > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:34 PM PST US From: John Collins Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Landing Gear Height Hello, List, In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings. Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is? Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea) I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck angle on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too. Thanks in advance, John Collins --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:45 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Shutter lag Thanks for the tip, Robert. I already had that item near the top of my list. It's not only the 'lag' factor, but a slow lens just compounds the problem when the little ruffians move about. Thanks again, Zed do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:33 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Question for gas welders. I TIG welded my LE tanks and my header tank. I made the wing tanks out of 5052 .032, and the header tank out of 6061 .025 (as per plans). If I were to do it all again, I would make them out of at least .040. I did notice that 5052 was slightly easier to weld, but was a full time 6061 welder as a teenager, so it was not a problem. The problem is how thin the material is. Thicker is MUCH easier. I used to weld aluminum soda cans together for fun, but can barely get a nice bead on .025 now. Go thicker - the weight penalty for this size of tank is neglegible. VR/ Brandon Tucker --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Tank Ends From: "Ron Lendon" Larry and Wayne, The print shows the edges coming together like the picture below and has a notation "BEAD WELD ALL FLANGE SEAMS". This should make it easier to fuse the materials while adding filler rod and it should also make a really strong joint. I'm not to sure about the methods you are speaking of so I will probally make it like the print. I am still open for suggestions. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79427#79427 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:19 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New information Tim, for all us that have not experienced your event yet let me say we are all glad and happy you made it okay ! Best regards and get her back up, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 100 hours ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:01 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: unbelievable! I'm with Dave. Bill of Georgia DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:11 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Hi guys, I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be cut to three pieces to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the grit is and wishing there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've concerns about it staying where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased it this week instead of 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well. Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something that once on has had no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year after year. I'd like to hear from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right stuff. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:58 PM PST US From: "john H" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Hi Larry I used skateboard grip tape. It has held great for 2 years now. I went with clear but should have used black. Clear doesnt stay clear for long. I got the stuff at blackholeboards.com at least I think that was the link. Relatively inexpensive too. Regards John >From: LarryMcFarland >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip >Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:14:44 -0600 > > >Hi guys, >I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be cut to >three pieces >to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the grit is and >wishing >there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've concerns >about it staying >where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased it this >week instead of >3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well. > >Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something that >once on has had >no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year after >year. I'd like to hear >from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right stuff. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height From: "leinad" John I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to say that in hind sight, it was probably a mistake. You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad taller, and MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL plans call for a gear that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19 3/4" tall. The plans call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the composite gear is only 69 1/2" wide if you follow the manufacturers installation instructions (which by the way are scant). In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it takes a significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2 parts which must be bolted to the air frame. Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts. The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight! ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go direct to them at www.comlet.cz Take care. Dan Dempsey > Hello, List, > > In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings. Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is? > > Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea) > > I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck angle on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too. > > Thanks in advance, > John Collins -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:14 PM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Tank Ends Ron, Give it a whirl and let us know how it comes out. I sure would like to know. I really hope you get it worked out. My problem was with the weld cracking. I would get one spot fixed and pressure test at about 1/2" water column and it would let go somewhere else. I tried annealing and everything I could think of. It just appeared to me that there wasn't enough meat or weld to take any stress at all. Be sure and let us know how it works out. Wayne do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:24 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height Dan, I also ordered and received the Comlet 2 pc gear for my 701. I was interested in replacing my aluminum gear to reduce the weight of my 701. I was under the impression that this was a direct replacement gear, NOT. I am not interested in redesigning the undercarriage and contacted ACS of my displeasure that this gear will not fit without major redesign work. They wrote me back saying they were going to contact the manufacturer, but I haven't heard anything yet. This was over one month ago. I guess it is time to write again to find out what is going on. I would have loved to use the gear but not since I have I have already finished building and painting. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S/87+hrs hoping the snow will hold off for a while In a message dated 12/5/2006 9:13:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, leinad@hughes.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" John I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to say that in hind sight, it was probably a mistake. You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad taller, and MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL plans call for a gear that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19 3/4" tall. The plans call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the composite gear is only 69 1/2" wide if you follow the manufacturers installation instructions (which by the way are scant). In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it takes a significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2 parts which must be bolted to the air frame. Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts. The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight! ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go direct to them at www.comlet.cz Take care. Dan Dempsey > Hello, List, > > In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have a taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall landings. Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the difference is? > > Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? Who makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea) > > I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher deck angle on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is important there, too. > > Thanks in advance, > John Collins -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:30 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Larry, the stuff I put on mine was not the usual paper-backed stuff. While on the hunt to find the usual I ran across some vinyl-based treads trip that's normally used in shower stalls. I put on 2 thin strips on either side and it works perfectly. Also, since it's vinyl it won't deteriorate after washing. I bought it at a local hardware store in the plumbing section. P.S. Mine is grey so it fits in perfectly with my colour scheme. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:14 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Hi guys, > I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be > cut to three pieces > to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the > grit is and wishing > there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've > concerns about it staying > where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased > it this week instead of > 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well. > > Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something > that once on has had > no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year > after year. I'd like to hear > from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right > stuff. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:17 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Landing Gear Height I just checked my Grove gear to compare. It's about 20-3/4" high and 73" wide. It saves about 11 pounds ( 32 instead of 43). ----- Original Message ----- From: "leinad" Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:11 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Landing Gear Height > > John > I bought and plan to use the ACS composite gear for my XL, but I have to > say that in hind sight, it was probably a mistake. > > You are right, the gear is not the same dimensions. It's just a tad > taller, and MUCH narrower. If I've done my calculations right the XL > plans call for a gear that is 18 1/4" tall. The composite gear will is 19 > 3/4" tall. The plans call for a gear 77 1/2 inches wide, while the > composite gear is only 69 1/2" wide if you follow the manufacturers > installation instructions (which by the way are scant). > > In my opinion it is questionable to call this an XL landing gear as it > takes a significant design change to install the gear, as it comes in 2 > parts which must be bolted to the air frame. > > Another draw back: It took 7 months to get the parts. > > The advantage, less weight.. Lots less weight! > > ACS gets the parts from a Czech company called ComLet. You could go > direct to them at www.comlet.cz > > Take care. > Dan Dempsey > > >> Hello, List, >> >> In the latest "EAA Sport Pilot", in the cover article on the CH601XL, the >> reviewer discusses the landing manners. He says that the AMD planes have >> a taller gear than the plans-built version, allowing better full-stall >> landings. Does anyone on the list know that this is true, and what the >> difference is? >> >> Does anyone know the dimensions of the Aircraft Spruce composite gear? >> Who makes their gear? (the guy who answered the phone at AS had no idea) >> >> I am exploring landing gear options, as well as the use of vortex >> generators. They allow a higher angle of attack, which requires a higher >> deck angle on landing to be of use there, so landing gear hieght is >> important there, too. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> John Collins > > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79471#79471 > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:26 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Ray Allen Company (of trim servo fame) offers a non-gritty wing walk material. I bought some but have not installed it yet. I can mail you a small sample if you would like. Look at the bottom of www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. Spruce sells it but I have had no problem ordering direct from RAC and they sell it for less! WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL Ray Allen wing walks are a low profile, high quality, self-adhesive, non-slip material. The rubbery texture feels much better to the touch (and the knees) than the gritty, sandpaper-like material commonly used for wing walks in the past. One strip of wing walk material measures 26 1/2"(67.3 cm) x 9 1/2"(24.1 cm). This can easily be cut down in size to suit your own application. Installation is simple, just peel off the backing paper and press it down on your wing. $17 This material can also be cut in any length and up to 53" (1.34 m) in width. Call for custom sizes. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:30 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Skateboard grip-tape. Very rugged. Get what they call dog-bite (very fine grit). Grit will not come loose, trust me. My brother could go through 20 pair of shoes; 6 pair of jeans; several layers of skin and his tape would still have plenty of grip. Sticks like you would not believe! Make sure you don't lay it down where you don't want it. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip Ray Allen Company (of trim servo fame) offers a non-gritty wing walk material. I bought some but have not installed it yet. I can mail you a small sample if you would like. Look at the bottom of www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. Spruce sells it but I have had no problem ordering direct from RAC and they sell it for less! WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL Ray Allen wing walks are a low profile, high quality, self-adhesive, non-slip material. The rubbery texture feels much better to the touch (and the knees) than the gritty, sandpaper-like material commonly used for wing walks in the past. One strip of wing walk material measures 26 1/2"(67.3 cm) x 9 1/2"(24.1 cm). This can easily be cut down in size to suit your own application. Installation is simple, just peel off the backing paper and press it down on your wing. $17 This material can also be cut in any length and up to 53" (1.34 m) in width. Call for custom sizes. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:49 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip I used the black 3M brand adhesive backed tread tape in 4" width. I've had no trouble with it coming loose in over 100 hours of use. It can be peeled off with a bit of effort but it doesn't come loose on its own. I first applied a couple of strips on the wing walk with a space between them but later I decided to cover the entire wing root out to about a foot from the fuselage. I peeled off the old stuff and put new stuff on. Even after removal the adhesive on the old stuff was still very sticky. In fact I even reused some of the old stuff to fill in around the curve of the fuselage and on the boarding step. It's still holding strong. > > > Hi guys, > I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be > cut to three pieces > to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the > grit is and wishing > there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've > concerns about it staying > where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased > it this week instead of > 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well. > > Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something > that once on has had > no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year > after year. I'd like to hear > from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right > stuff. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.