Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? (William Dominguez)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? (Aaron Gustafson)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Gig Giacona)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Al Young)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: Welding Practice (Juan Vega)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? (Trainnut01@aol.com)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: 701 POH (Juan Vega)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Forward Skin Access (Juan Vega)
9. 07:21 AM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (Bryan Martin)
10. 08:00 AM - Koger Sunshade (Timothy D. Perkins)
11. 08:00 AM - Stall warning (Tim Perkins)
12. 08:39 AM - CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested (MrBizi)
13. 09:17 AM - 801 Elevator Extension (Keystone Engineering LLC)
14. 09:55 AM - Re: CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested (Gig Giacona)
15. 10:16 AM - Re: unbelievable! (Noel Loveys)
16. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: welding aluminum (Noel Loveys)
17. 10:38 AM - Re: Question for gas welders. (Noel Loveys)
18. 11:07 AM - Re: 701 POH (Keith Ashcraft)
19. 12:03 PM - Re: 801 Elevator Extension (Dave Ruddiman)
20. 12:15 PM - Auxillary fuel pump (Harrison-Hutcheson)
21. 12:42 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
22. 01:53 PM - Re: unbelievable! (JOHN STARN)
23. 03:34 PM - Re: CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested (Big Gee)
24. 03:42 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Big Gee)
25. 04:07 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
26. 04:10 PM - Re: unbelievable! (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
27. 04:19 PM - Jeff Small's comments (George Swinford)
28. 04:29 PM - Do instruments need shock mounting? (Dan)
29. 04:51 PM - Re: 20 %meat, 80%BS (Bill Naumuk)
30. 04:53 PM - Re: Jeff Small's comments (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
31. 05:24 PM - Re: Wing walk tread strip (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
32. 06:12 PM - gas welding tanks (Brett Hanley)
33. 06:38 PM - Re: Do instruments need shock mounting? (Phil Maxson)
34. 07:58 PM - Re: Do instruments need shock mounting? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
35. 08:06 PM - Re: gas welding tanks (NYTerminat@aol.com)
36. 08:31 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Ends (Ron Lendon)
37. 08:41 PM - Re: Auxillary fuel pump (David X)
38. 08:44 PM - Re: Jeff Small's comments (Jeff)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? |
First, thanks to al respondent of my previous questions about welding. I bought
my gas welding equipment mostly to weld all the 4130 pieces and try if
possible to weld the tanks. If I cant weld it I will try alternative methods
like riveting and sealing like Vans or brazing with HTS-2000 rods that you can
find in this site:
http://aluminumrepair.com/
The price of this rod has gone down to $65 for 34 rods (minimum order). In
their FAQ they say that it can be also used for aluminum fabrication but the
rest of the site always refer to aluminum repair. If their claims are true
this product looks very promising for brazing the tank and maybe more, take a
look at the video in this page:
http://aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp
(you might need to use IE to view it)
Ive checked the archives and the only mentions of this product goes back to
Jan 2004 by David Barth who questions if this product can be used.
Have anyone tried this product?
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? |
Having done it myself, My advise is either to commit to lerning how to
weld yourself (posibly time consuming) or have them welded by someone
who knows how (posibly the cheapest way)! Anyone interested in my
overall experiences contact me.
Aaron Gustafson do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
I know there has been lots of talk lately about adding DO NOT ARCHIVE to messages
but this is taking it a little far. This was good info that should be archived.
bryanmmartin wrote:
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79539#79539
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
Larry- I just installed wing walk a week ago. I used Acft Spruce P/N
09-28210. It is self adhesive and is no problem installing. In fact if
you trim the corners to slightly round it won't peel up. when I decided
to paint the plane, I decided to take up the wing walk before painting and
then install new over the paint. It took me and a friend over two hours to
get the adhesive off after peeling off the wing walk. I masked off the
other wing and painted around it. It really has no grit on it to come off.
I think you'll be happy with it.
Regards,
Al Young
N601AY
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing walk tread strip
>
> Hi guys,
> I'm looking at a roll of adhesive backed tread strip that has to be cut to
> three pieces
> to fit my wing walks and grumbling about how grossly coarse the grit is
> and wishing
> there were a better alternative. The black looks correct, but I've
> concerns about it staying
> where it is put and the grit coming loose. I should have purchased it
> this week instead of
> 3 years ago and now have doubts about its adhesive as well.
>
> Does anyone have a tread strip that they're happy with? Something that
> once on has had
> no qualms about it being too rough or hard to keep its shape year after
> year. I'd like to hear
> from anyone who's applied it and feel they've purchased the right stuff.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Welding Practice |
remember Orvill Wright dude! Just trying to follow the path.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Ruddiman <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>Sent: Dec 5, 2006 3:12 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Welding Practice
>
>Hey!!
>
>This isn't airplane stuff. What's the big idea!!!
>
>I have to go to work now.
>
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thesumak@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:44 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Welding Practice
>
>
> Juan:
>
> If you are interested in building a recumbent bike from scrap bikes, there are
a couple of web sites that might help you get started. Just search under recycled
recumbents.
>
> Like Larry, I also built one as a welding and brazing project. It's a fun way
to sharpen skills and when done, you have a very comfortable bike.
>
> do not archive
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
> XL
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank welding, what about brazing? |
We use the aluminum brazing products at work to build and repair Air
Conditioner lines.While they work great for joining aluminum line and fittings
they
get real hard to deal with on sheets. The finished strength is really
questionable.
Carroll
do not archive
Message 7
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JOe
Go to Zenithair.com enter the 601site, then on upper right is builder's corner.
enter that after getter pass word. in the 601xl section of builder's corner
is the 601 POH in thenotices to builders section.
Juan
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe and Joan <jnjkimbell@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Dec 5, 2006 9:27 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>
>Juan, I could not find the POH on the zenith aircraft company list. I do not
>have their DVD. Do I need to buy it to get a POH. DO NOT ARCHIVE. Would
>appreciate more info on how to get a copy.
>One of the dudes from FL. Flying CH 701 912S
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dudes,
>> if you go on line or get a DVD disk from zenith, they have a copy of the
>> Chech rotax powered POH. you can use that as a template then inject
>> usefull tidbits of info in your own to customize it. Example" here in
>> florida I put in the POH Pretake off check list "prior to entering active
>> runway, make certain no Alligators in eccess of ten feet in length are on
>> runway", once that is checked I then go to "confirm Coyotes are off the
>> taxiway prior to taxiing to active". True Story to both.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: nyterminat@aol.com
>>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:16 AM
>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>
>>>Larry,
>>>
>>>You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok
>>>
>>>Bob Spudis
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: lrm@skyhawg.com
>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may
>>>already have one.
>>>
>>>Larry, www.skyhawg.com
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Tebenkof@aol.com
>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
>>>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>
>>>
>>>Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the
>>>POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the
>>>fact that the paper work is not.
>>>
>>>Jim Greenough
>>>701 / 99.5321% complete
>>>in Portland OR
>>>
>>>
>>>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Date: 11/28/2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
thank you for the info looking forward to the numbers.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:08 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access
>
>
>Juan,
>I built the bike with my daughter when I was teaching her to gas weld
>this summer. It's a freehand design from three bikes.
>The piece you speak of is well photographed in the canopy pages. The
>j-nuts were purchased from McMaster-Carr and
>I'll get the numbers for you tomorrow morning. These j-nuts cost about
>$10.00 per package of 50.
>
>Larry
>
>Juan Vega wrote:
>>
>> great website by the way, you need to send me the plans for that kick ass recumbant
Bike!
>> Do you have close up pics of the portion of the turtle deck you riveted, the
very end pieces adjacent to the canopy screw. I like your idea.
>>
>> Juan
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>> Sent: Dec 4, 2006 8:09 PM
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Juan,
>>> You needn't use nut plates for such a panel. J-nuts that work with 6-32
>>> screws can be used with considerable confidence. They are much cheaper
>>> and don't let go. I've got them on my removable forward top skin and
>>> I've had the top off probably a dozen times in two years and 85 hours of
>>> flying my 601. On the leading edge overhanging the panel, I bent a
>>> piece of 1/2-inch aluminum tube and used a Dremel cutter to cut a slit
>>> on the edge and used 4 bent tabs to secure it with the same screws that
>>> hold the forward top skin.
>>> It's a much easier job, as you use almost 90 screws, but very secure and
>>> the screws blend into the rivet heads.
>>>
>>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/uclips.gif
>>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/firstcowlfitting.gif
>>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>>>
>>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>>
>>> Juan Vega wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jay,
>>>>
>>>> that looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire
piece on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing something
that would not make that possible? I think yours maybe better idea becasue you
don't have to remove the canopy. I am also thinking of cutting and trimming
the "head chopping" sun leadge on the panel, and replacing it with a leather
one like on Cessnas. I found a place that can custom make one for cheap price.
ANy thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Juan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
I used the black 3M brand adhesive backed tread tape in 4" width.
I've had no trouble with it coming loose in over 100 hours of use. It
can be peeled off with a bit of effort but it doesn't come loose on
its own. I first applied a couple of strips on the wing walk with a
space between them but later I decided to cover the entire wing root
out to about a foot from the fuselage. I peeled off the old stuff and
put new stuff on. Even after removal the adhesive on the old stuff
was still very sticky. In fact I even reused some of the old stuff
to fill in around the curve of the fuselage and on the boarding step.
It's still holding strong.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 10
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Due to an unusual circumstance, I have a spare Koger Sun Shade -- still in
the box and never installed/used. Works great in the 601 canopy....keeps
your head from getting too badly fried...and fairly easy to install.
Cost is $160 new. Any offers?
Please send replies OFF-LIST to Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu
Do not archive
Message 11
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Has anyone mounted a Safe-Flight, ACS, or Reddish stall warning vane on
their aircraft? Suggestions on positioning would be appreciated
(photos/measurements would be great). Thanks in advance.
Tim Perkins
N1170Q
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested |
Hello.
Does anyone know a good site where I can get accident statistics for the CH601
and CH701? I've seen some recent accidents in Zodiac XLs and that really concerns
me. However, I'm wondering if the recent accidents are just a coinsidence
that 3 happened in November 2006 or is that many accidents to be expected
with this experimental class of planes?
I'm trying to compare their safety record to that of a production plane like
a Cessna.
I read Chris Heintz's letter on his design techniques that said his designs should
be safer.... but I'm looking for additional proof that they really are safer
than the average experimental and to see if they are as safe as a production
plane, etc. provided I build it per the plans.
Please let me know. Thanks for any advice you might have.
Thanks,
Josh
Message 13
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| Subject: | 801 Elevator Extension |
As someone who has flown the short and long elevators with and without VGs, I feel
I may have something to add to the discussion. The plane flys fine with all
of the versions. I found I was able to fly slower, stabilized approaches as
the elevator became more effective. With the small tail I found the plane sensitive
in pitch at very slow speeds which made it difficult to stabilize a very
slow approach. I am now able to fly short final at 45 mph. Before I was
50 mph or so.
Even with the large tail with VGs I still cannot raise the nose with power. When
the nose comes up the 801 will fly. The tail is just not in the prop wash.
If the original tail is rated as 100. The original tail with VGs is probably 125.
The larger tail is probably 130. The larger tail with VGs is probably 140.
Realize this is a subjective rating system and I cannot back it up with data.
Well, I take that back. At the Valdez May day fly-in competition with the
original tail I was able to take off in 130'. With the bigger tail with VGs
I got off in 113.5'
I still run out of trim at slow approaches speeds. I'm contemplating adding VG
to the top to try to increase the effectiveness of the trim tab.
One more word to the wise. Do not fly approaches with full flaps when there is
a significant crosswind!!! Keep the flaps up and the 801 handles crosswinds
very well.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
275 Hrs
Valdez, Ak
Performing condition inspection
Where did all this oily dirt come from???
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested |
The problem with aircraft accident statistics at least as far as VFR/GA is the
number that is used as a base to compare. The only way to compare is accidents
per hours flown and who knows how many hours Cessna 172s were flown last year.
I don't and neither does the FAA or NTSB. Any number you see is a simple wild
ass guess because nobody has ever asked me officially how many 172 hours I've
flown and I've never met anyone who has been asked.
Even if there were good numbers on 172 hours flown there aren't enough 601 & 701
hours to statistically valid.
Now I'm not saying that accident reports aren't a good thing to look at when choosing
an aircraft but you need to look at what the cause of the accidents were.
In the case of homebuilts you would probably expect to see a larger number
of accidents that happen in the first several hours the plane was flying. Is that
because there was a problem with the design or with the particular aircraft
or was it because the pilot wasn't current because he had spent the last 5 years
building the plane and not flying? I know if I finished my airplane today
I would be a hazard to myself and anybody in my flight path because I'm no where
close to current. Which is why before the plane is ready I plan to not only
get some ours in a 601 but I'm also going to go get some Upset and unsual attidude
training.
To sum it up when looking at accident reports it isn't the number it is the causes
that really mean something. If there is a design flaw the causes will show
it sooner or later.
[quote="mrbizi(at)yahoo.com"]Hello.
Does anyone know a good site where I can get accident statistics for the CH601
and CH701? I've seen some recent accidents in Zodiac XLs and that really concerns
me. However, I'm wondering if the recent accidents are just a coinsidence
that 3 happened in November 2006 or is that many accidents to be expected
with this experimental class of planes?
I'm trying to compare their safety record to that of a production plane like
a Cessna.
I read Chris Heintz's letter on his design techniques that said his designs should
be safer.... but I'm looking for additional proof that they really are safer
than the average experimental and to see if they are as safe as a production
plane, etc. provided I build it per the plans.
Please let me know. Thanks for any advice you might have.
Thanks,
Josh
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79585#79585
Message 15
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You are assuming it is being done intentionally.... You are wrong!
Sorry.
do not archive
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: unbelievable!
The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages
long
and contained 160KB.
The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it
again as
well as those who think everything they write is humorous and MUST be
shared
with the world.
When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for
each
poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than
knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When
clicked on that link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct
correspondence with the poster. If you need to ask for info or respond
to
an offer of pics/help, why not respond directly to the poster. Wouldn't
this make the list less encumbered with "I'd like to see that too," or
"I
plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What's the wx at your
place?"
Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others
on
this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly.
The
list was never meant to be a chat-list.
No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant
in
this country.
As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and
need to
leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging.
Regards Jeff Small
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: welding aluminum |
Chances are the scrap you picked up at the construction yard is pure
aluminium. Stuff used in aviation are exact alloys. The aviation stuff can
be tempered after welding if you have the proper heating equipment.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:53 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: welding aluminum
>
>
>
> List,
>
> First of all, I am NOT very good at welding aluminum.
> That said, I did purchase a TIG welder three years ago, and
> learned to join various items.
>
> As Larry mentioned, TIG is good. Takes practice and
> patience, and it helps if you can get some instruction.
>
> An elderly fellow, who claimed he could weld magnesium to
> Dynamite, showed me the finer points of using a stainless
> steel brush to "clean, clean, and clean again".
>
> Short version of this is: If it isn't clean, it won't TIG weld.
> Seems that typical aluminum alloys melt at 1100 F while the
> oxide film you didn't clean off won't melt until about 3300
> degrees F.
>
> After you learn to run a continuous arc across a clean area,
> then move that arc to an area which still has the oxide film,
> you will quickly see the problem: The base metal will melt
> and run out while the oxide film just gets hot and only
> futher contaminates the puddle. Stainless steel brushes are
> a lot cheaper than 6061.
> Helps to have an 'electronic' welding hood.....you can see
> exactly where you're about to make a mess before striking the arc.
>
> I'd offer this: If you can weld steel, you can weld
> aluminum. You will have to un-learn a few things; the most
> obvious being that, unlike steel, the aluminum does NOT
> change color with heat.....it just changes from solid to
> liquid and ruins your day. The aluminun could be compared to
> electrical solder; it "flows" with sufficient heat. After
> you have melted several square feet of the 6061 you will
> develop an eye for this.
>
> One other "tip" which I had to learn the hard way: Scrap
> aluminum picked up on construction sites, etc, is not good
> practice material. There is no way of knowing what was
> recycled to produce it. Cut-offs from door frames are
> examples. That stuff was made to be bolted, not welded. I'm
> not sure it is actually real aluminum.
>
> Anyway, in summation, and according to the elderly fellow, if
> 'robots' can do it you can do it if you clean it immediately
> prior to welding. Waiting even a half-hour is too long.
>
> Haven't tried welding two beer cans yet.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zed
>
> absolutely do not archive stuff from Zed's Welding School!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Question for gas welders. |
Carbon fibre is a good idea but it is very porous. Make sure the
interior of
your tank is well coated with some kind of gel coat. Also you will want
to
stay away from Ethanol degraded fuels... I have heard of one fellow who
has
had good luck by adding a bit of "top lube" to his gas. Apparently the
oil
protects the composite fillers from the effects of 10% Eth.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Trainnut01@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for gas welders.
William
I wound up just about as frustrated as Scott on welding the tanks. I
could
not do it. Several local welders who said they could actually couldn't.
I
gave up. My new carbon fiber tanks will be ready for testing soon. They
look
good and fit beautifully but have not been tested yet. I'll know a lot
more
in a couple of weeks.
Carroll Jernigan
do not archive
Message 18
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All 701 builders/fliers. Here is a modified version, of the POH I think
people are talking about. I got it from somewhere-sometime. It is the
CZECH version. I had started converting items over to US units and such
(kph to mph) etc..
See if it works for any of you!!
It is a Zip file of a Word Doc!!
Keith's CH701 POH Rev A
<http://www.geocities.com/ch701builder/CH701FlightManual-A.zip>
Otherwise, keep building/flying. And ask for "more tools" for Christmas,
just like I have!!
Keith
CH701
Sidewinder
Teenie Two
(nothing flying)
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
******************************************************
Juan Vega wrote:
>
>JOe
>Go to Zenithair.com enter the 601site, then on upper right is builder's corner.
enter that after getter pass word. in the 601xl section of builder's corner
is the 601 POH in thenotices to builders section.
>
>Juan
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>
>>From: Joe and Joan <jnjkimbell@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>Sent: Dec 5, 2006 9:27 AM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>
>>
>>Juan, I could not find the POH on the zenith aircraft company list. I do not
>>have their DVD. Do I need to buy it to get a POH. DO NOT ARCHIVE. Would
>>appreciate more info on how to get a copy.
>>One of the dudes from FL. Flying CH 701 912S
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dudes,
>>>if you go on line or get a DVD disk from zenith, they have a copy of the
>>>Chech rotax powered POH. you can use that as a template then inject
>>>usefull tidbits of info in your own to customize it. Example" here in
>>>florida I put in the POH Pretake off check list "prior to entering active
>>>runway, make certain no Alligators in eccess of ten feet in length are on
>>>runway", once that is checked I then go to "confirm Coyotes are off the
>>>taxiway prior to taxiing to active". True Story to both.
>>>
>>>Juan
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: nyterminat@aol.com
>>>>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:16 AM
>>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>>
>>>>Larry,
>>>>
>>>>You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok
>>>>
>>>>Bob Spudis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: lrm@skyhawg.com
>>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>>Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may
>>>>already have one.
>>>>
>>>>Larry, www.skyhawg.com
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Tebenkof@aol.com
>>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
>>>>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the
>>>>POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the
>>>>fact that the paper work is not.
>>>>
>>>>Jim Greenough
>>>>701 / 99.5321% complete
>>>>in Portland OR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>>>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>>>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Date: 11/28/2006
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
*************************************
*Keith Ashcraft*
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com
************************************
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views
or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check
this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts
no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.
************************************
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 801 Elevator Extension |
Bill,
What is the "real" indicated stall speed on your plane?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension
As someone who has flown the short and long elevators with and without
VGs, I feel I may have something to add to the discussion. The plane
flys fine with all of the versions. I found I was able to fly slower,
stabilized approaches as the elevator became more effective. With the
small tail I found the plane sensitive in pitch at very slow speeds
which made it difficult to stabilize a very slow approach. I am now
able to fly short final at 45 mph. Before I was 50 mph or so.
Even with the large tail with VGs I still cannot raise the nose with
power. When the nose comes up the 801 will fly. The tail is just not
in the prop wash.
If the original tail is rated as 100. The original tail with VGs is
probably 125. The larger tail is probably 130. The larger tail with
VGs is probably 140. Realize this is a subjective rating system and I
cannot back it up with data. Well, I take that back. At the Valdez May
day fly-in competition with the original tail I was able to take off in
130'. With the bigger tail with VGs I got off in 113.5'
I still run out of trim at slow approaches speeds. I'm contemplating
adding VG to the top to try to increase the effectiveness of the trim
tab.
One more word to the wise. Do not fly approaches with full flaps when
there is a significant crosswind!!! Keep the flaps up and the 801
handles crosswinds very well.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
275 Hrs
Valdez, Ak
Performing condition inspection
Where did all this oily dirt come from???
Message 20
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| Subject: | Auxillary fuel pump |
Looking for information concerning need for an auxiliary fuel pump for a
CH701 with Rotax 912S engine. Previous flight experience has been
basically limited to a low-wing Piper Cherokee 140 which had an
auxiliary electric fuel pump that was turned on at several times during
a flight - like prior to starting the engine, take-off, landing, and any
thing else you did where you really did not want to starve the engine of
fuel.
I have both main and auxiliary fuel tanks installed so the fuel system
will either feed from main tanks (both sides) or auxiliary tanks (both
sides) hopefully bypassing the potential problem of making turns with
the fuel selector pointing to the lowered wing.
If it is desirable (needed?) to have an auxiliary electric fuel pump I
would like to solicit information of what pump, sender, and gauge would
be appropriate.
Thanks in advance,
Sam Hutcheson
CH701
N6412Z (reserved)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
WTF this list has got to be the most childish list Matt works with. I have
never seen so many cry babies congregate in one area of the Internet and I
don't really care who the hell gets pissed about it.
You don't want to see useless emails well what the hell was yours?
Why don't you go build something and leave the people that want to just post
a reply alone you jerk off?
This list sickens me anymore.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: unbelievable!
The zenith-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages long
and contained 160KB.
The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it again as
well as those who think everything they write is humorous and MUST be shared
with the world.
When received in my mailbox the digest contains a blue hyperlink for each
poster. I'm sure there's a name for that item but being less than
knowledgeable about computer/e-mail programs I fail to know it. When clicked
on that
link opens an e-mail message board that allows direct correspondence with the
poster. If you need to ask for info or respond to an offer of pics/help, why
not respond directly to the poster. Wouldn't this make the list less
encumbered with "I'd like to see that too," or "I plan on doing it that way,"
or my
favorite, "What's the wx at your place?"
Please ask yourself if your post is relevant to the hundreds of others on
this list - if it's not then send it off-list to the person directly. The list
was never meant to be a chat-list.
No wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant in
this country.
As I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm old-fashioned and need to
leave, but the lack of civility lately is discouraging.
Regards Jeff Small
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
Sorry but if you want to locate the largest whinners ya gotta go to the
RV-10 list BUT you will have to donate some cheese to go with their
Whine. 8*)
KABONG At least there was a do not archive embedded in Jeff Small's
post or this one would be with us for all time too
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: unbelievable!
WTF this list has got to be the most childish list Matt works with. I
have never seen so many cry babies congregate in one area of the
Internet and I don't really care who the hell gets pissed about it.
You don't want to see useless emails well what the hell was yours?
Why don't you go build something and leave the people that want to
just post a reply alone you jerk off?
This list sickens me anymore.
The folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive' were at it
again as well as those who think everything they write is humorous and
MUST be shared with the world.
Regards Jeff Small
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info requested |
Hi Josh, I don't know if you mean the published reports by the NTSB or ano
ther type of study which someone has done.=0A=0AMy opinion only, Chris H.
has designed some very safe aircraft. Unfortunately, there have been some
very bad accidents with the 601. Some, "pilot induced", a couple of accid
ents are still being investigated.------------ of all the accidents, I am w
ondering, (NOT SPECULATING) and waiting for the NTSB report on the one whi
ch came apart in flight with a man and his wife on board. (this one raises
my eyebrow, thats why I feel very comfortable with the "changes I have mad
e on my XL fuel /electrical system.)=0A(not implying anything----- just say
ing I made some changes which I the builder/pilot of MY airplane feels more
comfortable with)=0A=0AIf you want to see a truely impressive safety recor
d, check out the 701 on the NTSB. =0A=0ATo be fair, the "study" should als
o show the causes of the accidents. As you mentioned earlier, a lot of ac
cidents are caused by fuel mismanagement. =0A=0AFritz XL -- 90/90-- Corv
air=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: MrBizi <mrbizi@yahoo.
com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 11
:37:09 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: CH601 and CH701 safety, accident info req
uested=0A=0A=0AHello.=0ADoes anyone know a good site where I can get accide
nt statistics for the CH601 and CH701? I've seen some recent accidents in
Zodiac XLs and that really concerns me. However, I'm wondering if the rece
nt accidents are just a coinsidence that 3 happened in November 2006 or is
that many accidents to be expected with this experimental class of planes?
=0A =0AI'm trying to compare their safety record to that of a production pl
ane like a Cessna.=0A =0AI read Chris Heintz's letter on his design techniq
ues that said his designs should be safer.... but I'm looking for additiona
l proof that they really are safer than the average experimental and to see
if they are as safe as a production plane, etc. provided I build it per th
e plans.=0A =0APlease let me know. Thanks for any advice you might have.
=============0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________
__________________________________________________________=0AAny questions?
Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
AfterFxllc---- I'll consider the source--- but I think Jeff probable has be
en flying his airplane for some time now----- I could be wrong about that,
but I agree with Jeff 100%. This list is very abused.=0AFritz=0ADO NOT AR
CHIVE=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" <Aft
erfxllc@aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Decembe
r 6, 2006 3:41:30 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: unbelievable!=0A=0A=0AWTF
this list has got to be the most childish list Matt works with. I have neve
r seen so many cry babies congregate in one area of the Internet and I don'
t really care who the hell gets pissed about it.=0AYou don't want to see us
eless emails well what the hell was yours? =0AWhy don't you go build someth
ing and leave the people that want to just post a reply alone you jerk off?
=0AThis list sickens me anymore.=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: o
wner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small=0ASent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:28
PM=0ATo: zenith-list=0ASubject: Zenith-List: unbelievable!=0A=0A=0AThe zeni
th-list digest received this a.m. for 12/04/06 was 76 messages long and con
tained 160KB.=0A =0AThe folks who don't know/use/care about 'do not archive
' were at it again as well as those who think everything they write is humo
rous and MUST be shared with the world. =0A =0AWhen received in my mailbox
the digest contains a blue hyperlink for each poster. I'm sure there's a
name for that item but being less than knowledgeable about computer/e-mail
programs I fail to know it. When clicked on that link opens an e-mail mess
age board that allows direct correspondence with the poster. If you need t
o ask for info or respond to an offer of pics/help, why not respond directl
y to the poster. Wouldn't this make the list less encumbered with "I'd lik
e to see that too," or "I plan on doing it that way," or my favorite, "What
's the wx at your place?"=0A =0APlease ask yourself if your post is relevan
t to the hundreds of others on this list - if it's not then send it off-lis
t to the person directly. The list was never meant to be a chat-list.=0A
=0ANo wonder some of the lurkers around the world think we're so arrogant i
n this country.=0A =0AAs I've been on this list since late '98 maybe I'm ol
d-fashioned and need to leave, but the lack of civility lately is discourag
=========================0A
===============0A=0A___________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
Well KABONG I didn't add the do not archive because I knew that it was in
his but if it makes you Feel better...............
Do not archive is this ok SIR KABONG
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: unbelievable! |
Well, I guess we should ask permission to speak then sheeezz it is a
freaking email list good God lighten up.
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Jeff Small's comments |
Jeff is one of the long time "good guys" on this list. He helped me a
great deal with documentation on his alternative canopy latch, for no
more than the asking. I'm sure I'm not the only one to benefit from his
advice. In my view, his recent comments are well taken and very much
too the point. Using "Do not archive" is a matter of courtesy, and
courtesy seems to be lacking these days.
George
Double do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Do instruments need shock mounting? |
I quickly looked in the archive and did not see any recent discussion on
how to mount the instrument panel. I plan on installing just the basic
steam gages on my 701 and will be installing either a Rotax 80 or 100 HP
engine. Do these instruments need to be shock isolated? Those of you
who are actually flying, what has been your experience.
Dan
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 20 %meat, 80%BS |
God forbid. I deserve 30 lashes with a wet noodle.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: 20 %meat, 80%BS
All-
The header says it all. The list has turned into a hen party
rather than a source of information.
Incidentally, Ron B. from Nuvite- is anyone going to answer my
questions? I'd like to finish my project BEFORE I have no recourse but
to go SP.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Jeff Small's comments |
I have no problem with the do not archive. I have a problem with him saying
to answer off list. If we all did this then this list would be all but
dead.... If you agree with Jeff then I wont be getting any responses about this
post since it has nothing to do with zenith aircraft ....... but somehow I doubt
it will go un answered.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Wing walk tread strip |
Al, I lost your address and was waiting for you to post again to answer your
question. The distance from the ground to the rear tie down loop is 550 mm. Or
at least that it how high mine is. Hope your building is progressing and best
regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 32
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| Subject: | gas welding tanks |
I just blew off welding the tanks. I bought a quart of proseal from Van"s
aircraft for fifty bucks including shipping. Then I riveted the tanks toge
ther. I got bigger tanks as a result, did not waist any material and had t
hem done in less than a week. I am not that impressed with the result of w
elded tanks even when done by experts. This is one area that has been a pr
oblem for many kit makers including Zenith from time to time. If you are wo
rried about proseal being strong enough I challenge you to try to separate
two pieces that where riveted and prosealed together. That will change you
r mind. In my opinion the weld is weaker and more prone to fatigue failure
. Learning to weld aluminum would be a great way to spend some time. But
I think it wise to practice on some thing other than a gasoline tank.=0A
=0ABrett=0A=0A=0A =0A______________________________________________________
______________________________=0AHave a burning question? =0AGo to www.Ans
wers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Do instruments need shock mounting? |
I am using a Corvair with a simple steam gauge panel. I used the panel as supplied
in the kit, cut the holes with a fly cutter, and mounted it according to plans.
Nothing shock mounted. No problems in 120 hours.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-----Original Message-----
From: "owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com" <owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
on behalf of "Dan" <dwilde@clearwire.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:28 AM
To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Do instruments need shock mounting?
I quickly looked in the archive and did not see any recent discussion on
how to mount the instrument panel. I plan on installing just the basic
steam gages on my 701 and will be installing either a Rotax 80 or 100 HP
engine. Do these instruments need to be shock isolated? Those of you
who are actually flying, what has been your experience.
Dan
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Do instruments need shock mounting? |
Dan,
I installed vibration mounts on my whole panel.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH701/912S
In a message dated 12/6/2006 7:30:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dwilde@clearwire.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan <dwilde@clearwire.net>
I quickly looked in the archive and did not see any recent discussion on
how to mount the instrument panel. I plan on installing just the basic
steam gages on my 701 and will be installing either a Rotax 80 or 100 HP
engine. Do these instruments need to be shock isolated? Those of you
who are actually flying, what has been your experience.
Dan
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: gas welding tanks |
Brett,
Is there any problem with auto fuel with the proseal? On the RV list some
expressed concern that the proseal would deteriorate over time with the auto
fuel.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 12/6/2006 9:14:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bretttdc@yahoo.com writes:
I just blew off welding the tanks. I bought a quart of proseal from Van"s
aircraft for fifty bucks including shipping. Then I riveted the tanks
together. I got bigger tanks as a result, did not waist any material and had
them
done in less than a week. I am not that impressed with the result of welded
tanks even when done by experts. This is one area that has been a problem
for many kit makers including Zenith from time to time. If you are worried
about proseal being strong enough I challenge you to try to separate two pieces
that where riveted and prosealed together. That will change your mind. In my
opinion the weld is weaker and more prone to fatigue failure. Learning to
weld aluminum would be a great way to spend some time. But I think it wise to
practice on some thing other than a gasoline tank.
Brett
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Ends |
Wayne,
I will keep the list updated on my experiences. Going to have the welding done
by a pro at work, will take pictures and document the process.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79737#79737
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| Subject: | Re: Auxillary fuel pump |
I would recommend an aux fuel pump, even in a high-wing such as the 701. There
is no guarantee that the fuel will continue by gravity-feed if the main mechanical
pump fails. You need an alternate route for the fuel if the main pump goes.
The Facet pumps are quite economical, reliable and easy to replace when they go
bad. I split the fuel line after the sump, one line goes to the mechanical fuel
pump, one to the electric aux pump. The output of both pumps join together
before splitting again to the two carbs. The pressure gauge and transducer that
comes with the Rotax Engine is adequate.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Jeff Small's comments |
Agreed. I certainly have benefited from Jeff Small's advice in a big way -
my engine choice. He also had a role in pioneering the Jabiru FWF
installation for the 601 so the entire Zenith community has benefited from
his efforts.
Jeff Davidson
do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Swinford
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Jeff Small's comments
Jeff is one of the long time "good guys" on this list. He helped me a great
deal with documentation on his alternative canopy latch, for no more than
the asking. I'm sure I'm not the only one to benefit from his advice. In my
view, his recent comments are well taken and very much too the point. Using
"Do not archive" is a matter of courtesy, and courtesy seems to be lacking
these days.
George
Double do not archive
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