Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:36 AM - Fw: Nuvite (Bill Naumuk)
2. 08:43 AM - House siding brake works well (Brett Hanley)
3. 09:28 AM - 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? (PatrickW)
4. 09:55 AM - Re: House siding brake works well (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
5. 10:09 AM - Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? (Robin Bellach)
6. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Taildragger (Gary Gower)
7. 10:54 AM - Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 11:13 AM - Dave New (Brandon Tucker)
9. 11:15 AM - Re: Pulling Stainless Steel Rivets? (Gig Giacona)
10. 11:19 AM - Re: Selling our 601xl (Gig Giacona)
11. 11:19 AM - Re: Pulling Stainless steel rivets? (MaxNr@aol.com)
12. 11:23 AM - Re: tail dragger (Gig Giacona)
13. 01:28 PM - Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? (David Wright)
14. 03:15 PM - tailwheel to rudder horn (Frank Probst)
15. 04:29 PM - Re: House siding brake works well (Randy L. Thwing)
16. 04:56 PM - Re: tailwheel to rudder horn (Gig Giacona)
17. 05:56 PM - Re: vg's (Carl Bertrand)
18. 07:12 PM - Re: vg's (Robert N. Eli)
19. 07:26 PM - Landing Lights Part II (Brad DeMeo)
20. 08:11 PM - Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? (Charles Wacker)
21. 08:12 PM - Re: Landing Lights Part II (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
22. 08:12 PM - Re: The Puzzle of the Yellow Fuel (MElrod3732@aol.com)
23. 11:24 PM - Re: Landing Lights Part II (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Nuvite
Gary-
The jury's still out because I still haven't been able to get the
final finish I want, but I have high hopes for the Nuvite bonnets. You
can't tell from the pictures on the website, but the bonnets are
radically different from what I expected.
They're RIGID! You should be able to forget about slipping and
tearing, as long as you stay away from corners.
Incidentally, the post of my e-mail with Ron to the list was
unintended. I don't know if it's Microsoft Update or Norton Update
that's causing the problem, but my computer will totally crash and
reboot when I'm in the middle of responding to an e-mail and then say
that I have to reboot again for updates to take effect. Since the site
was running in the background, maybe there's some safety setting that
copies everyone, I don't know.
The sad thing about the whole shipping situation is, Nuvite isn't in
business to provide products to deadbeats gratis, so you can't really
blame them. I'm really pissed at FedEx ground in my area, though. Their
whole attitude is, "It's our busy season- live with it". I blew the
whole day yesterday waiting for them- they didn't deliver until 5:30.
They can't deliver on a workday at 5:30, but they can when you're
waiting around all day on a Saturday! The main office's explanation was
that Ground is staffed by subcontractors who have their own set of
rules.
Whatever. I suppose the posting might have been a good idea after
all. As I said before, you can't really blame Nuvite, and I really doubt
if listers are pulling such dirty tricks. If they are, they're hurting
us all.
I'm going to be at it all day trying to get the finish I want on my
c-section. If things work out, I'll post a blindingly shiny picture of
the final results. This time, I'll be following Nuvite procedure to the
letter, using nothing but Nuvite products.
Just in case I get zapped out again-
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: naumuk@windstream.net
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: Nuvite
Hi Bill,
OK, I can see that you are unhappy with the shipping processes from
Nuvite, but what about the product? I had some generic aluminum polish
sitting around the garage, so I thought I would see what it took to
polish the center section leading edge (un-installed). I have a 3,000
max rpm, variable speed grinder with a bonnet that I bought from Home
Depot, but it still takes A LOT of work, and I'm not all that impressed
with the end results.
Would you go with the Nuvite again?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Message 2
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| Subject: | House siding brake works well |
I have heard it rumored many times that a standard aluminum siding brake wi
ll not work for building a Zenith. The reason given is that it does not ha
ve sufficient radius at the bend. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE. =0A =0AI came acr
oss a ten foot siding brake yesterday at a yard sale. After studying it f
or a while I figured I could modify the shoe to give the desired radius. I
bought it at the bargain price of one hundred dollars. When I got it home
I made a bend. I was thrilled when I laid a one quarter inch drill bit in
he bend and it showed I had a perfect one eight inch radius bend! Just wh
at Chris H ordered. A great brake for ten dollars a foot. That is a barga
in. It is compact and portable as well.=0A=0Aps: Still looking for some o
ne to share my hangar in northwest Houston. It is a bargain.=0AIf interest
ed call me at 713-589-9988.=0A=0ABrett=0AN858BH=0ASTOL 95% and 35% to go.
Message 3
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| Subject: | 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? |
What exactly does the 601 XL "Long-Range Tanks Option" consist of...?
Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "in addition to" the standard 12 gallon tanks?
Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "instead of" the standard 12 gallon tanks?
For the extra $490, what exactly do we get?
The research that I've done (searching the archives, looking at my copy of the
plans, looking at various websites) is conflicting, so I'd like to hear the current
wisdom of the Forum members.
Thanks,
- Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82085#82085
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: House siding brake works well |
I found that getting a proper radius on the bend is not the problem with an
aluminum siding brake. MY PROBLEM is holding a LONG piece of .025 (or
thicker) with sufficient force to keep it from slipping....particularly if you
are
making a 20mm flange. I tried using a siding brake when I first started my
project. For small pieces it was OK. The longer pieces were a different story.
I kept adjusting the clamping force tighter and tighter...until I could
barely close the brake. I finally broke down and bought a box/pan brake from
Harbor Freight. The difference was like night and day. I still can't bend the
long stuff...but I took those pieces (there's only about 4 or 5) to a jobber.
Now...having said that, I know that there are different kinds of siding
brakes.. Some will do an eighth inch radius bend...others do a sharp 90 degree
bend. Some have a rubber edge on the moving plane (like mine). It keeps from
scuffing the siding but makes it difficult to work with all but the thinnest
aluminum.
I hope you can make the siding brake work. If you can, you got a good deal.
I'm just relating my own experience.
Dave Harms
601XL/Corvair
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? |
I thinik the current $490 upgrade consists of two 15-gal. tanks instead of
two 12-gal. tanks. The cofusion probably lies in the fact that previously
ZAC offered a long range kit that amounted to two additional 12-gal tanks.
This latter is what I have, for 48 gal. total. With this older 4-tank
system, the inner tanks contain a thru-tube to carry the gas line from the
outer tank. 15 + 12 or 15 +15 in each wing might also be a viable option,
unless that capacity would excede structural limitations. If you are
interested in more than the 30 gal. capacity as offered in the current
upgrade and not into scratch building tanks, just check with ZAC to see of
they will still do the older option. I'll bet that ZAC changed because the
older option was not too popular as it offered more capacity tan practical
for most people, the the current upgrade is probably much more partical and
popular. I opted for the older long range 48 gal./4-tank option because I
expect to often fly alone and my weight is just 140 lb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option?
>
> What exactly does the 601 XL "Long-Range Tanks Option" consist of...?
>
> Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "in addition to" the standard 12 gallon
> tanks?
> Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "instead of" the standard 12 gallon tanks?
>
> For the extra $490, what exactly do we get?
>
> The research that I've done (searching the archives, looking at my copy of
> the plans, looking at various websites) is conflicting, so I'd like to
> hear the current wisdom of the Forum members.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Patrick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82085#82085
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Taildragger |
Carlos... I think you have to learn to fly and forget about the "training wheel"
:-) :-) ;-)
Our Instructor and local bush pilot, here owns only taildraggers (3) and when
asked why taildraggers he answers with a question: "Are there other type?"
jokeing of course.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S with training wheel.
Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, Brandon
Obviously I can't type worth a rat's tail... My address is carlossa52@gmail.com
(not "51").
It seems that the actual construction of the TD option is not a problem.
What may end up being a show stopper is (1) insurance, given I have no TD time
at this point and (2) getting TD time: the two airports within 30 min driving
have no TDs for rental/instruction... Bummer
Thanks for your comments
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Assembling wings.
On 16/12/06, Brandon Tucker < btucke73@yahoo.com> wrote:Carlos,
I tried e-mailing this to your address, but it returned. So here it is
for all to read...
Carlos,
I recently finished my HDS taildragger. I did not, however, use
the standard bungee cord gear. I fabricated and installed an aluminum
spring gear. I don't believe that the main gear installation would be
any more difficult to install forward of the spard rather than aft.
Due to the curvature of the nose ribs and LE skin, this area is much
stronger than aft of the spar, and lends well to gear installation. The
tailwheel installation is pretty straightforward...
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? |
Hi Patrick,
The long range tank option for the XL from ZAC replaces the 12 gallon
tanks with 15 gallon tanks to make a 30 gallon apparent total
capacity. With larger engines this means approximately an additional
hour of fuel burn.
There is one nose rib change and a need to cut the opening in the
skin for the filler and vent in different places. I wouldn't want to
replace the standard tanks for long range ones after the plane is
built, but it is a very simple change if done from the start.
Best regards,
Paul
>What exactly does the 601 XL "Long-Range Tanks Option" consist of...?
Message 8
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Dave,
I tried responding to your email, but it returned as an error. Please e-mail
me again.
VR/
Brandon Tucker
Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pulling Stainless Steel Rivets? |
I used the pneumatic riveter as well. The cheap one from Harbor freight and didn't
give it a second thought.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82107#82107
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Selling our 601xl |
He had some real good photos at this URL
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
if the "@" has been replaced with "[at]" in the URL you'll need to fis it.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Jack,
> please shoot me some email pics. Thanxs
> Juan
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82109#82109
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pulling Stainless steel rivets? |
Looking at the drawing of the XL's elevator, it looks like you could might
get a bucking bar in to reach the two fwd (SS) rivets on the upper&lower horns
and shoot those two with a rivet gun. Hope I don't have the drawing upside down
again. AC 43.13-1B says that MONEL is a satisfactory replacement for SS. When
I get to the elevator, I will ask Zenith about this.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: tail dragger |
Don't forget you will also have to move the main gear. At least you do on the XL
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82113#82113
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? |
Patrick
I am in the process of scratch building the 15 gallon tanks and have
the both the Zenith 12 gallon and 15 gallon drawings together with
the CZAW 12 gallon drawings, apart from the capacity the only
difference is that there is one less nose rib if you go the 15 gallon
route.
Let me know if you want an e-mail copy of the drawings for comparison
Dave
601XL scratchbuilding wings
Washington UK
On 17 Dec 2006, at 17:27, PatrickW wrote:
>
> What exactly does the 601 XL "Long-Range Tanks Option" consist of...?
>
> Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "in addition to" the standard 12
> gallon tanks?
> Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "instead of" the standard 12 gallon
> tanks?
>
> For the extra $490, what exactly do we get?
>
> The research that I've done (searching the archives, looking at my
> copy of the plans, looking at various websites) is conflicting, so
> I'd like to hear the current wisdom of the Forum members.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Patrick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82085#82085
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | tailwheel to rudder horn |
I recieved a matco tailwheel with my kit but with no plans or springs on how
to attach it to the rudder horn. I ordered a compression tailwheel spring
kit from spruce. My question is how did you TD builders attach the chains
to the rudder horn? Did you use a clevis or some kind of a bent tab bolted
to the horn. I sure hope the Td horn and the trigear horns are the same
because everything is already installed
Frank Probst
_________________________________________________________________
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December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your
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http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: House siding brake works well |
Here's a pic of the Tapco brake bending lite "L". I built up the sharp
nose to achive the radius with layers of aluminum flashing. I also had
to adjust the clamp down pressure to the max to clamp material in place.
I've bent every piece for a 701, .032 and under, including the landing
gear channel, etc. The .040 pieces such as the rear fuse longerons are
too thick for this brake. For more discussion about these brakes,
search the archives with the term "tapco". All in all it has done the
job.
Just so I could bend the .040 & larger, I found & bought a used
Roper-Whitney 8' x 16 ga shop brake, now I can bend it all. I still use
the tapco for the thinner stuff.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: VideoFlyer@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: House siding brake works well
I found that getting a proper radius on the bend is not the problem
with an aluminum siding brake. MY PROBLEM is holding a LONG piece of
.025 (or thicker) with sufficient force to keep it from
slipping....particularly if you are making a 20mm flange. I tried using
a siding brake when I first started my project. For small pieces it was
OK. The longer pieces were a different story. I kept adjusting the
clamping force tighter and tighter...until I could barely close the
brake. I finally broke down and bought a box/pan brake from Harbor
Freight. The difference was like night and day. I still can't bend the
long stuff...but I took those pieces (there's only about 4 or 5) to a
jobber.
Now...having said that, I know that there are different kinds of
siding brakes.. Some will do an eighth inch radius bend...others do a
sharp 90 degree bend. Some have a rubber edge on the moving plane (like
mine). It keeps from scuffing the siding but makes it difficult to work
with all but the thinnest aluminum.
I hope you can make the siding brake work. If you can, you got a good
deal. I'm just relating my own experience.
Dave Harms
601XL/Corvair
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: tailwheel to rudder horn |
There are some pretty good photos amd drawing here.
http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/tdo.html
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82155#82155
Message 17
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I was at least partly responsible for restarting the vg discussion with
my post of 27 Nov. My sole purpose was to get empirical data from
someone that had done trials and who was not marketing something at the
same time. A second opinion is always good insurance.
I am part of a small group of 701 flyers, some who showed interest in
the effects of removing the slats. Before I would advise anyone
contemplating such a major change I wanted more supporting data. I thank
all who contributed points on both sides of the question.
In Canada major changes to the Amateur category must be approved by
Transport Canada. When I applied to have my new wings approved, I was
surprised to find the process logical and devoid of heavy bureaucracy. I
was informed that the Amateur Category was created in part to enable
persons to experiment and develop improvements in design. At the same
time Transport Canada must take measures to protect the general public.
Every owner is held responsible whether he designs and builds from
scratch or builds from a kit and makes no changes. It is my
understanding that this is also true for owners of certified a/c. If you
allow your a/c to fly then you have certified that it is airworthy and
are responsible. The onus is then on you to prove that someone else is
or shares the responsibility for any damages caused.
Needless to say on the question of experimenting, I fall squarely on the
side of those who like to experiment but recognise that risk is part of
the game and one has to exercise due diligence for the safety of self
and others.
Carl 701/912
Message 18
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Carl,
I assume from what you are saying that you plan to remove the slats and
conduct your own flight tests. You didn't mention whether you will add
the vg's or not (but I also assume that you will, given the reported
performance improvements). I would appreciate your keeping the rest of
us 701 builders posted on the progress as you take the steps toward
flight testing. I for one, will be very interested in keeping abreast of
the developments as they occur. Good luck.
Bob Eli
N701K
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Bertrand
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vg's
I was at least partly responsible for restarting the vg discussion
with my post of 27 Nov. My sole purpose was to get empirical data from
someone that had done trials and who was not marketing something at the
same time. A second opinion is always good insurance.
I am part of a small group of 701 flyers, some who showed interest in
the effects of removing the slats. Before I would advise anyone
contemplating such a major change I wanted more supporting data. I thank
all who contributed points on both sides of the question.
In Canada major changes to the Amateur category must be approved by
Transport Canada. When I applied to have my new wings approved, I was
surprised to find the process logical and devoid of heavy bureaucracy. I
was informed that the Amateur Category was created in part to enable
persons to experiment and develop improvements in design. At the same
time Transport Canada must take measures to protect the general public.
Every owner is held responsible whether he designs and builds from
scratch or builds from a kit and makes no changes. It is my
understanding that this is also true for owners of certified a/c. If you
allow your a/c to fly then you have certified that it is airworthy and
are responsible. The onus is then on you to prove that someone else is
or shares the responsibility for any damages caused.
Needless to say on the question of experimenting, I fall squarely on
the side of those who like to experiment but recognise that risk is part
of the game and one has to exercise due diligence for the safety of self
and others.
Carl 701/912
Message 19
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| Subject: | Landing Lights Part II |
Thanks for all the info in the first thread. This weekend while working
in an ice cold hanger I tried to bend the landing light lens into the
wing for fitting and final assembly. SNAP! It broke. So, I am
wondering what other material anyone has used in this application for a
landing light lens. The lens I broke was from LP Aero and appears to be
acrylic (the sticker on the lens did not indicate material type and
neither do the plans). Any ideas what would be appropriate on the
leading edge under all flight and weather conditions? Other builders
have told me their lenses are cracked and discolored in less than one
year's use. Would lycra or some other more pliable substitute be
appropriate?
Brad
do not archive
--
The information contained in this transmission is attorney-client privileged and/or
confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity
named-above as recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended
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IRS circular 230 Disclosure: As required by U.S. Treasury Regulations governing
tax practice, you are hereby advised that any written tax advice contatined herein
was not written or intended to be used (and cannot be used) by any taxpayer
for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the U.S. Internal
Revenue Code.
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option? |
You get two 15 gallon tanks to replace the 12 gallon tanks.
Chuck Wacker
601XL Quick build
>From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Long-Range Tanks Option?
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:27:53 -0800
>
>
>What exactly does the 601 XL "Long-Range Tanks Option" consist of...?
>
>Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "in addition to" the standard 12 gallon
>tanks?
>Is it a pair of 15 gallon tanks "instead of" the standard 12 gallon tanks?
>
>For the extra $490, what exactly do we get?
>
>The research that I've done (searching the archives, looking at my copy of
>the plans, looking at various websites) is conflicting, so I'd like to hear
>the current wisdom of the Forum members.
>
>Thanks,
>
>- Patrick
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82085#82085
>
>
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights Part II |
I think Lycra is another name for Spandex...a stretchy fabric. Do you mean
Lexan? Lexan is a better choice (more pliable) than Plexiglass.
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: The Puzzle of the Yellow Fuel |
I had the same problem after using the fuel line supplied by Zenith in my
701 I bought in October of 2003. I ended up replacing all the Zenith supplied
fuel line with fuel line purchased at Auto Zone and have had no further
problems with tinted (yellow) colored fuel.
I informed Zenith about the problem, returned the problem fuel line and they
credited me the amount I paid for the new fuel line.
The tinting occurred with both Avgas & auto gas.
Hope this helps.
Mike Elrod
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights Part II |
I built one of my landing light lenses out of acrylic and one out of
Lexan. It took two attempts to make the acrylic one, the first one
shattered when I tried to drill the holes for the mounting screws. On
the second attempt I heated the tail end of a drill bit in a propane
torch and melted my mounting holes in it. It was much easier to make
the lens out of Lexan, the stuff cuts and drills abut like wood with
no tendency to shatter. Lexan is not as scratch resistant as acrylic
and I understand it wont tolerate exposure to gasoline and other
petroleum solvents but those are not of great concern for a landing
light lens mounted in the wing tip. I would highly recommend Lexan
for this application.
On Dec 17, 2006, at 10:26 PM, Brad DeMeo wrote:
> Thanks for all the info in the first thread. This weekend while
> working in an ice cold hanger I tried to bend the landing light
> lens into the wing for fitting and final assembly. SNAP! It
> broke. So, I am wondering what other material anyone has used in
> this application for a landing light lens. The lens I broke was
> from LP Aero and appears to be acrylic (the sticker on the lens did
> not indicate material type and neither do the plans). Any ideas
> what would be appropriate on the leading edge under all flight and
> weather conditions? Other builders have told me their lenses are
> cracked and discolored in less than one year's use. Would lycra
> or some other more pliable substitute be appropriate?
>
> Brad
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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