---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/19/06: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:23 AM - New workbench! (John Marzulli) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (Rick R) 3. 04:57 AM - Re: New workbench! (Rick R) 4. 05:24 AM - Inspection plate fasteners (Ryan Vechinski) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Aaron Gustafson) 6. 06:16 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (billbutlergps@aim.com) 7. 06:18 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Gig Giacona) 8. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny () 9. 06:59 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Terry Turnquist) 10. 07:24 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners () 11. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Robin Bellach) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (Michael Valentine) 13. 08:31 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Carlos Sa) 14. 08:52 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (RURUNY@aol.com) 15. 08:57 AM - Nylon ell (Jeffrey A Beachy) 16. 08:59 AM - Aiming A Landing Light (Chuck & Lana Maggart) 17. 09:04 AM - Re: control cable question (Chuck & Lana Maggart) 18. 09:12 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Bryan Martin) 19. 09:28 AM - Re: New workbench! (John Marzulli) 20. 09:38 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (JOHN STARN) 21. 09:45 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (RURUNY@aol.com) 22. 10:02 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (JOHN STARN) 23. 10:19 AM - Re: Inspection plate fasteners (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (Flydog1966@aol.com) 25. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (Flydog1966@aol.com) 26. 11:52 AM - Coolant 90 degree (Mark Sherman) 27. 12:58 PM - Re: Nylon ell (LarryMcFarland) 28. 01:00 PM - j nuts other uses (john butterfield) 29. 01:23 PM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (Rick R) 30. 01:59 PM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (John Marzulli) 31. 02:36 PM - Re: Landing lights (Terry Phillips) 32. 02:40 PM - Re: j nuts other uses (LarryMcFarland) 33. 03:28 PM - May be selling my Zodiac Tail Kit (Todd Osborne) 34. 03:33 PM - Re: j nuts other uses (Robin Bellach) 35. 03:50 PM - Re: May be selling my Zodiac Tail Kit (Ron Lalonde) 36. 03:51 PM - Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny (JOHN STARN) 37. 04:11 PM - Re: Landing lights (Carlos Sa) 38. 04:12 PM - Re: Nylon ell (Dave Austin) 39. 04:45 PM - defrost (Tim Juhl) 40. 05:22 PM - Re: j nuts other uses (LarryMcFarland) 41. 05:27 PM - 601XL fuel vents (Wade Jones) 42. 05:35 PM - Re: defrost (george may) 43. 06:40 PM - Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage video (Robert Schoenberger) 44. 07:00 PM - Re: 601XL fuel vents (Ron Lendon) 45. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel vents (Wade Jones) 46. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel vents (Craig Payne) 47. 09:38 PM - Re: 601XL fuel vents (Ron Lendon) 48. 09:53 PM - Re: Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage video (Ron Culver) 49. 10:04 PM - Aluminum siding brake (Dave and Pam Fisher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:12 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Zenith-List: New workbench! The old workbench was enough to get started (8x4), but larger projects (wings) call for a larger bench (8x12). It's been a while since I've had time to work on the project (thanks to the office), so the getting the shop ready for the wings is a big deal. I used the Zenith wing crate as a base frame and decided to continue using MDF as the tabletop. The whole thing is as sturdy as can be, and flatter than my old table. There are pictures of the new bench and some pictures of the old bench on my blog. -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:42 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:47 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New workbench! John... How in the world will you reach across a 8' wide bench? Just a thought..... no not archive John Marzulli wrote: The old workbench was enough to get started (8x4), but larger projects (wings) call for a larger bench (8x12). It's been a while since I've had time to work on the project (thanks to the office), so the getting the shop ready for the wings is a big deal. I used the Zenith wing crate as a base frame and decided to continue using MDF as the tabletop. The whole thing is as sturdy as can be, and flatter than my old table. There are pictures of the new bench and some pictures of the old bench on my blog. -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ " ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:34 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners May be a dumb question, but could somebody please tell me the trade name of the fasteners found in the picture in the link below? They are basically nut-plates, but I can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft tool distributors. Could somebody give me a hint on where I can find these as well? Thanks in advance. Ryan http://www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701/pages/022%20Elevator%20Access%20All%20Doubler%20Rivets.htm ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:59 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners That's what they are, nut plates. Not a tool but a part. Wicks, ACS etc. Aaron do not archive >>> could somebody please tell me the trade name of the fasteners found in >>> the picture in the link below? They are basically nut-plates, but I >>> can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft tool distributors. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny From: billbutlergps@aim.com Zenith does directly with the 601. However skyhawg has a neat dual stick that he came up with for his 701. More info can be found at: http://www.skyhawg.com/sticks.html Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Do they offer a dual stick option? Ed Do Not Archive ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plate fasteners From: "Gig Giacona" They look like standard nut plates installed with solid rivets. They are available thought ACS and I'd tell you the page but I don't have my catalog with me. Also speaking of nut plates has anyone ever seen these? http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/pressroom/pr/RNP.html brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > May be a dumb question, but could somebody please tell me the trade name of the fasteners found in the picture in the link below? They are basically nut-plates, but I can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft tool distributors. Could somebody give me a hint on where I can find these as well? Thanks in advance. > > Ryan > > http://www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701/pages/022%20Elevator%20Access%20All%20Doubler%20Rivets.htm -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82414#82414 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:58 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny I'm ambi-neitherous. Ed Do Not Archive ---- Ron Lendon wrote: > > And the best part is it can be sold anywhere in the world. You could drive it from either side. Hope you are Ambidextrous. :D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:55 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners They look like floating nut plates..Look under "floating" in your catalog. Terry Turnquist 601 XL-Plans St. Peters, MO Ryan Vechinski wrote: May be a dumb question, but could somebody please tell me the trade name of the fasteners found in the picture in the link below? They are basically nut-plates, but I can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft tool distributors. Could somebody give me a hint on where I can find these as well? Thanks in advance. Ryan http://www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701/pages/022%20Elevator%20Access%20All%20Doubler%20Rivets.htm __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:44 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners Hard to tell for sure but my guess is that they are K1000-6 platenuts and are available at AS. They could also be the floating version for which I can't recall the number..... for that number look in the 601XL plans at the drawing for the access panel in the front seat panels that allows access ot the spar bolts. That area call out the floating platenuts. If you use the K1000-6 platenuts, they work with #6-32 screws. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL ---- Ryan Vechinski wrote: > May be a dumb question, but could somebody please tell me the trade name of the fasteners found in the picture in the link below? They are basically nut-plates, but I can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft tool distributors. Could somebody give me a hint on where I can find these as well? Thanks in advance. > > Ryan > > http://www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701/pages/022%20Elevator%20Access%20All%20Doubler%20Rivets.htm ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:49 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plate fasteners Those look really neat, but since suppliers like ACS don't carry them, they probably will not fit the budget of the typical homebuilder. Even if reasonable, the installation tool may break the bank. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plate fasteners > > They look like standard nut plates installed with solid rivets. They are > available thought ACS and I'd tell you the page but I don't have my > catalog with me. > > Also speaking of nut plates has anyone ever seen these? > > http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/pressroom/pr/RNP.html > > > brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: >> May be a dumb question, but could somebody please tell me the trade name >> of the fasteners found in the picture in the link below? They are >> basically nut-plates, but I can't seem to find any at any of the aircraft >> tool distributors. Could somebody give me a hint on where I can find >> these as well? Thanks in advance. >> >> Ryan >> >> http://www.mykitairplane.com/MyCH701/pages/022%20Elevator%20Access%20All%20Doubler%20Rivets.htm > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82414#82414 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:54 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Who cares what goes wrong. We (the young people) do not fix our electronics. I'm sure that when the joystick breaks, we will just throw away the car. Michael in NH (still feeling young at 33) On 12/19/06, JOHN STARN wrote: > > Still off topic. Do Not Archive. > Sounds like 16,000 more things to go wrong and need an expert to fix once > the warrantee is up. Just brought a '67 Dodge Charger to the hanger for some > TLC, now I know I can work on this one. KABONG > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* ZodieRocket > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2006 8:28 PM > *Subject:* Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:56 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners ...and what is the difference between floating and non-floating nutplates? For now, do not archive Carlos On 19/12/06, dredmoody@cox.net wrote: > > > Hard to tell for sure but my guess is that they are K1000-6 platenuts and > are available at AS. They could also be the floating version for which I > can't recall the number..... for that number look in the 601XL plans at the > drawing for the access panel in the front seat panels that allows access ot > the spar bolts. That area call out the floating platenuts. > > If you use the K1000-6 platenuts, they work with #6-32 screws. > > Ed Moody II > Rayne, LA > 601XL > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:53 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plate fasteners Ryan, Go to _http://www.ddaircraft.com/_ (http://www.ddaircraft.com/) and selec t the catalog button. Scroll down a bit till you get to Nutplates. Look for : TWO LUG NUTPLATE, MS21047, 450=B0, MOLYBDENUM DRY LUBE You will see they come in 6/32, 8/32, 10/32 I have used mostly 8/32 for access panels and anything I felt needed to be removed. I have only used the floating type in the 10/32 size for the large access panel on the bottom of my 701. You will use: MACHINE SCREW, PHILLIPS, TRUSS HEAD (AN526C STAINLESS) in the proper size and length. I used 1/2" on access panels but used 3/8" o n my fuel sender access panels. Solid rivets used here are: MS20426AD3-3 3/32 x3/16 100 deg flush head If you have riveted closed your elevator and can't get a rivet squeezer in there, use pulled nutplate rivet: CCR264SS-3-04 3/32 x .188-.250 Nutplate rivet 100 deg flush hd. I have ordered all my hardware from D&D mainly because if you have questions, the guy is very helpful and knows what he's talking about. Delivery is very quick also. If you are just starting your project, I would recommend buying 25 or more of each as you will find many, and I mean many uses if you want to make your project maintenance friendly. Brian ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Nylon ell From: Jeffrey A Beachy I installed a nylon 90 degree ell in my coolant system. It is installed very near the cooling system expansion tank (with the radiator cap) on top of the engine. I am checking to be sure that the engine temperatures will not compromise the nylon ell in this location. Anyone? Thanks! Jeff Beachy CH701, 85% ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:40 AM PST US From: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" Subject: Zenith-List: Aiming A Landing Light While on the subject of landing lights, does anyone have a method to aim a landing light other than trial and error? Chuck Maggart, 601XL/Jabiru, painted Hazelwood, Mo. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:41 AM PST US From: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: control cable question Ken, I left the upper turnbuckle attached to the stick and put the lower turnbuckle near the belly access door. An alternative is to attach at least one of the center console sides with platenuts and bolts. Chuck Maggart, 601XL/Jabiru, painted ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:47 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners With a non-floating nutplate, the nut is rigidly attached to the plate, so proper alignment is critical during installation. Usually, a slightly oversize hole is used in the cover plate to allow some tolerance to align the screw with the nut. With a floating nutplate, the nut is held in the plate in such a way that it can move around a bit to self-align with the fastener. With these, the holes in the cover plate can be just big enough to allow insertion of the screw and the tolerance for alignment is built into the nutplate. By the way, the ACS catalog calls these fasteners "anchor nuts" or "floating anchor nuts" and there are several different styles. Look under "nuts" in the index. > ...and what is the difference between floating and non-floating > nutplates? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:25 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New workbench! Whoops... the new bench is 4x12, NOT 8x12. I need to stop typing at midnight. On 12/19/06, Rick R wrote: > > John... > > How in the world will you reach across a 8' wide bench? > > Just a thought..... > > no not archive > > *John Marzulli * wrote: > > The old workbench was enough to get started (8x4), but larger projects > (wings) call for a larger bench (8x12). > > It's been a while since I've had time to work on the project (thanks to > the office), so the getting the shop ready for the wings is a big deal. > > I used the Zenith wing crate as a base frame and decided to continue using > MDF as the tabletop. The whole thing is as sturdy as can be, and flatter > than my old table. > > There are pictures of the new bench and some pictures of the old bench on > my blog. > > -- > John Marzulli > http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ > > " > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:35 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Yep....that's great as long as the car isn't going 70MPH around a curve in the mountains with you in it when it breaks and the "drive by wire" car becomes a flying projectile. Then Ya'll may have second thoughts....but ya better have them quick. Do Not Archive KABONG 8*) ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Valentine To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Who cares what goes wrong. We (the young people) do not fix our electronics. I'm sure that when the joystick breaks, we will just throw away the car. Michael in NH (still feeling young at 33) On 12/19/06, JOHN STARN wrote: Still off topic. Do Not Archive. Sounds like 16,000 more things to go wrong and need an expert to fix once the warrantee is up. Just brought a '67 Dodge Charger to the hanger for some TLC, now I know I can work on this one. KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:43 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inspection plate fasteners Ryan, Also look at these mini nutplates, from your picture the rivets look very close together. Its harder to squeeze these as the squeezer dies get caught up on the nut part of the plate but its doable. Its a good choice though for this access panel on the elevator. TWO LUG NUTPLATE, REDUCED RIVET SPACING, MS21069 (NAS697) Brian ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:02 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners Non-floating are one solid piece & tapped to size. Floating ones have a captured free movement (very small movement) nut. "Floating" allows for realignment of the nut/screw if the two pieces being attached are slightly off. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners ...and what is the difference between floating and non-floating nutplates? For now, do not archive Carlos On 19/12/06, dredmoody@cox.net wrote: Hard to tell for sure but my guess is that they are K1000-6 platenuts and ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:54 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection plate fasteners > Hi Carlos, Floating nut plates have two parts. The part with the inside threads can move around a little so the screw can align itself easily. The threaded part "Floats" around. A non floating nut plate has just one part which has a fixed position for the threads compared to the mounting holes. >...and what is the difference between floating and non-floating nutplates? ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:34 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny Has anyone tried it with VG's, and the slats removed yet ? Oh,and the interior is way too fancy for a Chris Heintz design ; ) please do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:46 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: OFF TOPIC, but funny Has anyone tried it with VG's, and the slats removed yet ? Oh,and the interior is way too fancy for a Chris Heintz design ; ) please do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:14 AM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Zenith-List: Coolant 90 degree Jeff Beachy.=0A =0AI made one from aluminum because of the heat considerati on and that is also where I get my true water temp. and not the combo CHT/W ater temp. that Rotax gives you. See picture below.=0A =0AMark S.=0A701/91 2S=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A_______________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:11 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nylon ell Jeff, Without going specific on nylon types, you should be o.k. if temps don't get above 300 deg F. Plastics give out at between 300 and 350 degrees and continue to change dimension or "flow" at a little less, especially interesting where clamps are used. Radiators having plastic top and bottom tanks like the Rabbit diesel radiator seem to get along well at high coolant temps of 250 degrees or so. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Jeffrey A Beachy wrote: > > I installed a nylon 90 degree ell in my coolant system. It is installed > very near the cooling system expansion tank (with the radiator cap) on > top of the engine. I am checking to be sure that the engine temperatures > will not compromise the nylon ell in this location. Anyone? > > Thanks! > > Jeff Beachy > CH701, 85% > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:27 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: j nuts other uses hi list i used larry McFarland's recommendations for the forward top skin and could not be happier. thanks for that info now i am looking over the plans and find that the j nut method of securing panels and other things seems like a good alternative i can think of several places to use them, the arm rest, inspections plates, ect. my question is where have you people used them on the aircraft. I know that i will miss some obvious areas, but any ideas would be good. also, is there a downside to using j-nuts to fasten metal together regards john butterfield 601XL corvair torrance, ca __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:45 PM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Look in that driver's side door pocket...is that green Scotchbrite??? do not archive JOHN STARN wrote: Yep....that's great as long as the car isn't going 70MPH around a curve in the mountains with you in it when it breaks and the "drive by wire" car becomes a flying projectile. Then Ya'll may have second thoughts....but ya better have them quick. Do Not Archive KABONG 8*) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:54 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Actually this is a concept car, and not intended for production. On 12/18/06, Edward Moody II wrote: > > Do they offer a dual stick option? > > Ed > Do Not Archive > > * > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:40 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing lights Interesting stuff, Carlos. Rather than reply based on my limited knowledge, I forwarded your message to CreativAir, and the following is Bill's reply: Hey Terry... HID technologies have changes a lot in the past few years, and although some of what was said below it true, its not all that hard to safely wig-wag HIDs anymore... It sounds like Carlos is using an older electro-mechanical flasher to wig-wag his lights, and if that's the case then what he is saying is correct... My wig-wag flasher was designed for HIDs and just happens to work for halogens as well... It has a 30 second warm-up time (about 6 times more than needed) and a 1 second flash rate (on for a second, off for a second, which is about double what is needed for the HID I sell) to let the lamp warm-up and flash without significant life reduction.....most likely no life reduction in the lamp at all... Additionally, my flasher is all solid state and has its own power and ground supplies so it does not rely on what is connected to it to make the flash happen... One more thing... Not all HID are the same... Ballasts and lamps are designed and built differently and not all can be flashed.....it just depends on the technology used (whether is older or newer)... Hope this helps! -Bill I do not yet have personal experience with CreativAir's HID lights, but, somewhere down the road (just how long does it take to build a 601?) I will have and I will post my personal results using his HID's and wig-wag flasher. Meanwhile, I do not intend to start a controversy. Let's just say that there may well be ways to wig-wag HID lights w/o seriously damaging them. Terry At 10:01 PM 12/18/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Interesting. I did some additional searches, and found several msgs on the >subject. > >This one is from the RV10 list: > >Message: #7801 >Subject: >WIG-WAG >HIDS >Date: Sep 26, 2006 >From: "Neville Boyle" >If you are prepared to potentially sacrifice some bulb light it is >possible to WIG-WAG the HID Xenon globes.You need to be aware that the >globes have a warm up time while the gas is ionising and they need to warm >fully to burn the deposit left while warming up off the glass (this means >the flash rate needs to be longer than 3 seconds per side) The second >problem is that most of the commercial flash units rely on a low impedance >through the filament of the traditional globe that does not exist with the >xenon alternative.On my plane I increased the capacitor size to slow the >flash rate and provided a additional earth in stead of the traditional >path through the globe filament Neville Boyle VH-NVL 33 hours > >So apparently it can be done, but there may me trade-offs. > > >Happy building > >Carlos >CH601-HD, plans >Montreal, Canada > > >On 18/12/06, Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote: >><ttp44@rkymtn.net> >> >>I didn't see the previous postings about wig-wagging HID's, but, if HID >>lights cannot be wig-waged, that is going to be a major disappointment to >>Bill at CreativAir >> >>http://www.creativair.com/wigwag-flashers-kits-c-24.html >> >>since he sells a wig-wag flasher expressly for HID and Halogen lights. >> >>I'm planning to use both his 2" HID light kit and his wig-wag flasher in my >>601. >> >>Terry > >Terry Phillips >ttp44~~at~~rkymtn.net >Corvallis MT >Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: j nuts other uses John, In recommending these, I should take some responsibility for answering this. J-nuts and U-nuts are great for surface assemblies, but they are not intended for places where shear is a major factor. I have used them on the forward top skin, the wing joint covers, wheel fairing halves, center console, the front edge of inspection plates held by a spider spring on the leading half of the lower wing and a cosmetic fiberglass tail saddle. They work really very well in each of these cases. There are probably a few more. Id not recommend them for carburetor ducts on the engine, air ducting for engine cylinders, for holding the center bolt on a spider-held inspection plate, attaching hangar-bolts for wheel fairings or any place where they encounter the direct pulse of a vibrating exhaust, prop spinner or part that depends upon movement or absolute safety of connection such as a control linkage. I'd also not use them in a permanent assembly like rivets that was not accessible in the completed aircraft. Nut plates are much better where tension and shear have to hold wheel fairings to a fork-hanger, etc and all of these things should be considered when selecting hardware. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com john butterfield wrote: > > hi list > i used larry McFarland's recommendations for the > forward top skin and could not be happier. thanks for > that info > > now i am looking over the plans and find that the j > nut method of securing panels and other things seems > like a good alternative > > i can think of several places to use them, the arm > rest, inspections plates, ect. my question is where > have you people used them on the aircraft. I know > that i will miss some obvious areas, but any ideas > would be good. also, is there a downside to using > j-nuts to fasten metal together > regards > john butterfield > 601XL corvair > torrance, ca > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: May be selling my Zodiac Tail Kit From: "Todd Osborne" A combination of my instrument rating and life's little expenses has forced me to consider selling my Zodiac XL tail kit and related stuff. If you are interested, please contact me off list. Here is what I have: Tail kit (Rudder and Elevator Complete), Horizontal stabilizer at 90%. Electric Elevator Trim System Full set of updated plans/manual Several hundred cleco's of various sizes 3 riveters, 2 manual, one pneumatic Various sheet metal tools 4'x8' Sturdy bench (Made into 2 4'x'4 sections) Form blocks for tail, wing, etc. Various spare (extra) parts, like rudder control horn I am located just outside of Madison, WI. If you are nearby, and a CFI, I may be interested in swapping these items in exchange for dual instruction towards my commercial/CFI ratings. Todd Osborne E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com Web: www.toddtown.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:41 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: j nuts other uses For you guys that know about these things, what would be the advantage of J-nuts over U-nuts, or in what sort of application would one be preferable over the other? Robin in AR N601ZV ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: j nuts other uses > > John, > > In recommending these, I should take some responsibility for answering > this. J-nuts and U-nuts are great for surface assemblies, but they are not > intended for places where shear is a major factor. I have used them on the > forward top skin, the wing joint covers, wheel fairing halves, center > console, the front edge of inspection plates held by a spider spring on > the leading half of the lower wing and a cosmetic fiberglass tail saddle. > They work really very well in each of these cases. There are probably a > few more. > > Id not recommend them for carburetor ducts on the engine, air ducting for > engine cylinders, for holding the center bolt on a spider-held inspection > plate, attaching hangar-bolts for wheel fairings or any place where they > encounter the direct pulse of a vibrating exhaust, prop spinner or part > that depends upon movement or absolute safety of connection such as a > control linkage. I'd also not use them in a permanent assembly like rivets > that was not accessible in the completed aircraft. Nut plates are much > better where tension and shear have to hold wheel fairings to a > fork-hanger, etc and all of these things should be considered when > selecting hardware. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >> ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:06 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: May be selling my Zodiac Tail Kit Hi Todd Clecos would be nice too!!! Guess you can never have enough clecos...LOL Ron _________________________________________________________________ Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger lets you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to find out how to sign up! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:17 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny AHH HAA...I knew the Germans were up to something, there is no "drivers side". They only have to build one car for use everywhere, left side--right side...all the same. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick R To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OFF TOPIC, but funny Look in that driver's side door pocket...is that green Scotchbrite??? do not archive JOHN STARN wrote: Yep....that's great as long as the car isn't going 70MPH around a curve in the mountains with you in it when it breaks and the "drive by wire" car becomes a flying projectile. Then Ya'll may have second thoughts....but ya better have them quick. Do Not Archive KABONG 8*) ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:38 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing lights That's good information, Terry. Thanks for going after it. PS: I haven't decided on which type of lights to use, but HID is back on the list as a viable option. LEDs aren't there yet, but Audi and Lexus will have LED based headlights in 2007... http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/06/0412.html http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=844 Carlos do not archive On 19/12/06, Terry Phillips wrote: > > Interesting stuff, Carlos. Rather than reply based on my limited > knowledge, I forwarded your message to CreativAir, and the following is > Bill's reply: > > Hey Terry... > > HID technologies have changes a lot in the past few years, and although > some of what was said below it true, its not all that hard to safely wig-wag > HIDs anymore... > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:53 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nylon ell I've had a swimming pool nylon "L" in my cooling system for 13 years. It does not seem to have deteriorated at all. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: defrost From: "Tim Juhl" This question is for those of you building XL's in the northern climes. Assuming you installed cabin heat, did you also install any kind of forward canopy defogger? Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82545#82545 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: j nuts other uses Robin, The sides of the u-nuts are full length and the non-thread engaging side is bent up at the tip to make it easier to slip onto an aluminum edge. J-nuts are made with the non-thread side cut off at center of the hole. They both have a small edge spur that clips into the hole to retain position. They both will self-center a little bit as do nut-plates to ease engaging the thread with the fastener. The J-nut is preferable if the fastener is to be attached at an edge where the mating sheet will overlap, close down over the fasteners and not be visible, something like the sides of the forward top skin. The J-nut is selected for a slightly shorter edge-to-hole distance to assist with the flush fit. The u-nut has full-length sides that engage a flange edge easier which makes them preferable for simple assembly. Functionally, they do the same thing and u-nuts are selected edge-to-hole for mid-flange position holes as might be already drilled or punched for rivets. This makes it easy to convert from rivets to j-nuts or u-nuts as needed in a panel like the forward top skin. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/uclips.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif As you can see in the above links, both types were used as described above. If anyone has difficulty finding these, I've several boxes of both types and will part with them at their basic cost plus pkg and mailing. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Robin Bellach wrote: > > For you guys that know about these things, what would be the advantage > of J-nuts over U-nuts, or in what sort of application would one be > preferable over the other? > Robin in AR > N601ZV ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:28 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL fuel vents Hello group ,I have searched the archives and found nothing pertaining to the fuel vents .I am plans building and am having problems determining where the vent line ties into the fuel tank .Could someone give some help in this area . Thanks, Wade ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:14 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: defrost Tim-- I'm in New Hampshire so heat was mandatory for winter flying. I installed 2 small muffin fans for circulation. A small 4'' one in the top of the instrument panel and a 6'' one at the back of the baggage area. They have worked well so far, however, haven't had any serious defogging needs yet. George May 601XL 912s 29 hours >From: "Tim Juhl" >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: defrost >Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:42:55 -0800 > > >This question is for those of you building XL's in the northern climes. >Assuming you installed cabin heat, did you also install any kind of forward >canopy defogger? > >Tim > >-------- >DO NOT ARCHIVE >______________ >CFII >Champ L16A flying >Zodiac XL - Working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82545#82545 > > _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:29 PM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Zenith-List: Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage video List . . . although I'm well along toward completion of my 701 rear fuselage, I bought Jon Croke's latest DVD (HomebuiltHELP.com), "Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage" to check out if I've missed anything. All I can say, this is a superior instruction video, and anyone contemplating building a 701 should absolutely have this important aid. I wish I had had it at the start as it would have saved many hours (20 or 30 at least) of construction time and frustration with interpreting the plans. The section about what not to rivet because of future mating of the forward section was particularly helpful. Buy it - you won't be sorry. Robert Schoenberger 701 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel vents From: "Ron Lendon" I just made them up the other day from the dimensions on 6-K-1. Final trimming, 40mm sticking out of the bottom was saved to last. I kept the pipe perpendicular along the tank to make setup easier. I don't have the prints with me but if you have more questions, just ask. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82565#82565 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:38 PM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel vents Ron ,I have checked 6-K-1 and have all the dimensions ,however I must be missing something .I do not know where it ties into the tank .I do not have room to tie into the filler neck .Does it tie into the top of the end or does it tie into the top of the tank ,does it tie into a welded fitting somewhere . Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel vents > > I just made them up the other day from the dimensions on 6-K-1. Final > trimming, 40mm sticking out of the bottom was saved to last. I kept the > pipe perpendicular along the tank to make setup easier. > > I don't have the prints with me but if you have more questions, just ask. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82565#82565 > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:40 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel vents I believe it doesn't really tie in anywhere. The upper end of the pipe has a slight bevel to it and tucks into the upper corner of the tank. The cross-section view of the tank shows this (poorly). I suspect the vent tube may be tack welded to the wall of the tank in that upper corner. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel vents From: "Ron Lendon" I have mine out being welded. I will talk to the guy and see if he will allow pictures of the process. Tacking it to the top of the tank is something I didn't think about but will mention it to the weldor. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82585#82585 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:25 PM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage video I just reviewed my copy and Robert is absolutely right on. Even though I am scratch building except for parts making this video is going to save me time, mistakes and aggravation. Jon has done it again.Fine job ... well worth the price .. Ron Culver 701 Scratch builder.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Building your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage video > > > List . . . although I'm well along toward completion of my 701 rear > fuselage, I bought Jon Croke's latest DVD (HomebuiltHELP.com), "Building > your Zenith CH701 - Rear Fuselage" to check out if I've missed anything. > All I can say, this is a superior instruction video, and anyone > contemplating building a 701 should absolutely have this important aid. I > wish I had had it at the start as it would have saved many hours (20 or 30 > at least) of construction time and frustration with interpreting the > plans. The section about what not to rivet because of future mating of the > forward section was particularly helpful. Buy it - you won't be sorry. > Robert Schoenberger 701 > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:36 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: Aluminum siding brake > >aluminum siding brake. MY PROBLEM is holding a LONG piece of .025 (or >thicker) with sufficient force to keep it from slipping.... Hi list, I supplement the clamping on my siding brake with half a dozen " C " type Vise Grips - works OK. A heavier brake would work better. Dave, 701 with A 80 -8 Continental ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.