Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: odd and ends (steveadams)
2. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph (Juan Vega)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph (Juan Vega)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: odd and ends (Juan Vega)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: Re:Wiring up your wings (Noel Loveys)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:05 AM - Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph (T. Graziano)
8. 07:37 AM - Screw-up (Wade Jones)
9. 07:46 AM - Re: Nav antenna location? (Noel Loveys)
10. 08:26 AM - Re: Nav antenna location? (billbutlergps@aim.com)
11. 08:32 AM - Re: Screw-up (Bill Naumuk)
12. 08:55 AM - Re: odd and ends (Bill Naumuk)
13. 09:02 AM - Re: Test (Carlos Sa)
14. 09:05 AM - Re: Nav antenna location? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: Screw-up (Carlos Sa)
16. 09:38 AM - GPS Navigation online workshop (Noel Loveys)
17. 09:59 AM - Re: Screw-up (Gary Boothe)
18. 09:59 AM - Price of learning : doing some mistakes (Christian Tremblay)
19. 10:15 AM - Re: Screw-up (Bolding)
20. 10:18 AM - Re: Nav antenna location? (Noel Loveys)
21. 11:14 AM - Re: Test (Matt Dralle)
22. 11:41 AM - Are these the J-Nuts? (Gig Giacona)
23. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location? (Bryan Martin)
24. 12:17 PM - Re: Are these the J-Nuts? (Craig Payne)
25. 12:35 PM - Re: Are these the J-Nuts? (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
26. 12:47 PM - Re: vg's (ronlee)
27. 12:58 PM - Re: Wiring up your wings (Bryan Martin)
28. 01:00 PM - Re: CH 701 part 7H2-6 (Geoff Heap)
29. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: vg's (billbutlergps@aim.com)
30. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: vg's (Robert N. Eli)
31. 01:20 PM - Re: CH 701 part 7H2-6 (ricklach)
32. 01:21 PM - Re: Nav antenna location? (Eddie G.)
33. 01:25 PM - Re: Wiring up your wings (chris Sinfield)
34. 01:29 PM - VG's ()
35. 01:48 PM - Re:Bolt Torque and other important info (EMAproducts@aol.com)
36. 01:50 PM - Re: Are these the J-Nuts? (Gig Giacona)
37. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: vg's (Noel Loveys)
38. 04:20 PM - Re: Screw-up (Wade Jones)
39. 04:45 PM - Re: Wiring up your wings (Noel Loveys)
40. 05:04 PM - Re: VG's (Noel Loveys)
41. 05:08 PM - Re: Re:Bolt Torque and other important info, CONDITION INSPECTION (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
42. 05:15 PM - Re: VG's (Robert N. Eli)
43. 05:54 PM - Re: Torque force to apply to AN Bolts (JohnDRead@aol.com)
44. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Are these the J-Nuts? (LarryMcFarland)
45. 06:32 PM - Re: Torque force to apply to AN Bolts (Jaybannist@cs.com)
46. 07:13 PM - Subaru Mount for a 701 (Brett Hanley)
47. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: vg's (raymondj)
48. 07:53 PM - Re: Nav antenna location? (John Bolding)
49. 08:04 PM - Landing Light Lens Trimming (Brad DeMeo)
50. 08:09 PM - Re: Nav antenna location? (raymondj)
51. 08:13 PM - Landing Light Lens Trimming (Brad DeMeo)
52. 08:24 PM - Re: Subaru Mount for a 701 (billbutlergps@aim.com)
53. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Are these the J-Nuts? (Terry Phillips)
54. 08:59 PM - Re: odd and ends (Gary Gower)
55. 09:55 PM - A Series Continentals (Dave and Pam Fisher)
56. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location? (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: odd and ends |
Concerning the sharpie marker removal. If you want to save an extra step and extra
exposure to solvents, the sharpie marks will come off when you prep the metal
for painting. Alumiprep or any of the acid washes used to prep the metal remove
the marks. No need for an extra step IMHO.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83556#83556
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph |
stall rate increases as as weight in the plane increases. that is why after 1320
to 1400 lbs the plane wants to fly but can't. the plane cannot get enough speed
to keep the wings flyin. vne is 90% OF FLUTTER OR STALL OCURS, if the
weigh goes up, the wing will flutter and stall at higher speed. if you weigh
the plane down with too much weight, the wings can come right off with the slightest
turn. thats the extreme, because the weight has to change direction with
the direction of the plane and the heavier the object that wants to turn, the
greater the load on the structure has it starts the turn and throughout the
turn. so if loaded up past max gross, in a turn the wing load will be at its
apex, takng on greater Gs, stalling quicker.
Vne stays the same, stall speed goes up. In some jets that fly high enough, stall
speed is within 2 knots of cruise speed.
Happy Christnukha
Juan Vega 601xl
-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
>Sent: Dec 26, 2006 1:59 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph
>
>
>Tony
>
>I am confused by the your relationship between Vne and gross weight.
>
>My understanding is that Vne is 90% of the speed at which flutter occurs on
>airfoil surfaces. It would seem to me that the relationship between speed
>and flutter would depend primarily on the shape of the airfoils and
>secondarily the angle of attack. It is not clear to me how having more
>weight inside the airframe will change the speed at which flutter occurs,
>particularly in an XL where sufficiently high speeds are only attainable in
>a dive. Admittedly, the angle of attack in steady cruise has to be greater
>at higher loadings. It's not clear to me how the angle of attack will
>depend on gross weight in a dive. I do know that the C-150 and C-152 I have
>been training in have only a single Vne.
>
>I would like to know your thinking behind having two values for Vne.
>
>Terry
>
>At 01:04 PM 12/25/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I do not see any problem getting to 200 mph IAS in the XL. During my
>>Phase I FLIGHT TEST . I took my XL (in a shallow to slightly steep dive
>>while monitoring RPM to keep my Jab below 3300 rpm) to 195 IAS to check
>>that there were no indications of any control buzz. It was a non-event,
>>but something I will not do again purposefully during normal flight. My
>>Vne is 180 mph /156 kts (below 1300 lbs gross) and 160 mph/140 kts (above
>>1300 lb gross wt)
>>It is very easy to go into the air speed "yellow" zone (148 mph /129 kts)
>>and approach the "red' line during decents with power to keep the
>>cylinders warm.
>>
>>Tony Graziano
>>601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 187 hrs
>
>Terry Phillips
>ttp44@rkymtn.net
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph |
to addmy previous response to the dude's question on Vne, most planes that are
aerobatic, are certified to fly unusual attitudes only below a certain weight.
Vans aircraft have a posted sign that says to limit the weight to a certain
amount before unusual attitude flying, same for most. Even Extra 300s go up with
1/4 tanks of gas, because the plane performs totally differently at gross.
Same for CH 601. It is loaded for 6 gs below gross. go loaded up and you
fold the wings at take off.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Dec 25, 2006 2:04 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph
>
>
> I do not see any problem getting to 200 mph IAS in the XL. During my Phase
>I FLIGHT TEST . I took my XL (in a shallow to slightly steep dive while
>monitoring RPM to keep my Jab below 3300 rpm) to 195 IAS to check that there
>were no indications of any control buzz. It was a non-event, but something
>I will not do again purposefully during normal flight. My Vne is 180 mph
>/156 kts (below 1300 lbs gross) and 160 mph/140 kts (above 1300 lb gross wt)
>It is very easy to go into the air speed "yellow" zone (148 mph /129 kts)
>and approach the "red' line during decents with power to keep the cylinders
>warm.
>
>Tony Graziano
>601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 187 hrs
>
>.------------
>Time: 09:12:01 AM PST US
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Nav antenna location?
>> From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>>
>>
>> Screw the antenna. How did you get to 200MPH?
>>
>>
>> bryanmmartin wrote:
>>> I have a home-made VOR antenna mounted on top of the rudder on my XL.
>>> I have test flown the plane to 200MPH and have seen no hint of
>>> flutter. The antenna is mounted just forward of the rudder spar, so
>>> the balance change in the rudder is minimal.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bryan Martin
>> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
>> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.[/quote]
>>
>> --------
>> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>> 601XL Under Construction
>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83388#83388
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: odd and ends |
Ed,
I have an EFIS EIS GPS system, not steam guages. For me, round gauages good as
a security blanket, however most EFIS have a 4 hour battery back up. in case
of panel black out, compass is all that is needed for me I found. I fly the
plane by sound for RPM and speed. The RPM and trim dictate the speed so I fly
all my aircraft with trim set to land. thus plan will fly the trim speed.
Just the way I was taught, not the solution to some.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
>Sent: Dec 23, 2006 7:44 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: odd and ends
>
>First I should thank you for the confidence you place in my ability to choose
an EFIS/EIS that can never fail (my attempt at aircraft construction humor). I
believe that anyone who uses a glass panel as primary instrumentation and does
not give himself a few critical backups is whistling past the graveyard. My
opinion is that I need a whiskey compass if the electrical system is shut down
(my gps eats batteries like a dog eats bacon), an ASI to fly a safe approach,
a tach to manage the engine safely, and my GPS can give me ALT if that's critical
(if the electrical power is off, I'm screwed on that one). The EIS does include
an engine hour meter but the Hobbs is a backup incase the memory in the
unit gets fried. I know, I know, next you'll ask if I wear a belt and suspenders
(I only wear a belt.... I don't care who gets mooned).
>
>Ed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Payne
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 2:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: odd and ends
>
>
> Why the Tiny tach and Hobbs? Don't the AFS boxes provide that?
>
> -- Craig
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:Wiring up your wings |
A good idea.... Check to make sure the case of your strobe power unit
is
properly grounded. there is probably a metal strap under the box which
will
come in contact with the frame of the plane when it is mounted. Clean
both
the metal strap and the frame with whatever colour Scotch Brite :-) to
ensure a strong ground.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T. Graziano
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Wiring up your wings
Chris,
Doing it again, I believe I would spend a little extra money and put
shielded wire out to my strobes and back and tie the shields into my
single
point ground. Although not disconcerting, I can hear a slight "squeak.
squeakity-squeak" tone in my headset from I believe my Aeroflash Strobe
power packs when engine is not running.
I also ran an extra spare wire out to the wing tips, just in case for
any
future additions/repairs.
Tony Graziano
601XL; N493TG, w/"Down Under" Jab 3300A (great engine!).
Wiring up your wings
From: Chris sinfield (
<mailto:chris_sinfield@yahoo.com?subject=Re:%20Wiring%20up%20your%20win
gs&re
plyto=266511.14636.qm@web50811.mail.yahoo.com>
chris_sinfield@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Dec 25 - 12:16 PM
OK,
Having read lots of stuff including Bingles and watching the Homebuilt
help 101
video, there are 2 main thoughts as to the earthing out of components.
1. Running both positive and neg wires to each component or
2. Just a positive wire and use the airframe as the earth..
Since this aircraft is all metal the latter will work just like my
car,
but
I am still not 100% convinced and so I have run both wires out to my
wing
tip
strobes. If I don't use it I can always have a spare.
Looking through the archives I did not find much on this, so what have
other
builders done and why?
Thanks
Chris
XL builder
Down Under
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph |
I heartily agree. There has been more than one accident caused by exceeding
the VNE.
Noel
Happy New Year!
> Well, I'm glad it worked out for you. The designer set the
> Vne at 180 and I really see no reason to exceed it.
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph |
Terry,
Good question.
The Vne on my plans (dwgs dated 06/03) is 180 mph. and gross wt is 1300
lbs. Dwg change #3 established a gross wt of 1320 lbs with a Vne of 160
mph. I recall asking Zenith about the change to Vne and if I recall the
answer was a Vne of 180 is ok at 1320 gross wt if I have cargo in my wing
lockers. I assumed the change in Vne was for g loading under rapid stick
deflection. I took it to a little less than 110% max Vne IAS. I did not do
any excitation of the control surfaces at that speed other than a smooth
pull out. I approached that speed in a series of increasing speeds during
my Phase I testing.
I have not gone into the "red line" since test flight, but I do have
confidence in the integrity of the XL airframe should I somehow
inadvertently wifferdill* into some unusual nose down attitude.
It appears that some doubt that the XL can do 200 mph.even at terminal
velocity. I have no idea what the terminal velocity of the XL might be and
do not plan to find out.
* "Technical" term for an uncontrolled/unexpected departure or a "what the
@#$&"
Tony
>
> Time: 11:19:48 PM PST US
> From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Nav antenna location?/200 mph
>
>
> Tony
>
> I am confused by the your relationship between Vne and gross weight.
>
> My understanding is that Vne is 90% of the speed at which flutter occurs
> on
> airfoil surfaces. It would seem to me that the relationship between speed
> and flutter would depend primarily on the shape of the airfoils and
> secondarily the angle of attack. It is not clear to me how having more
> weight inside the airframe will change the speed at which flutter occurs,
> particularly in an XL where sufficiently high speeds are only attainable
> in
> a dive. Admittedly, the angle of attack in steady cruise has to be greater
> at higher loadings. It's not clear to me how the angle of attack will
> depend on gross weight in a dive. I do know that the C-150 and C-152 I
> have
> been training in have only a single Vne.
>
> I would like to know your thinking behind having two values for Vne.
>
> Terry
>
> At 01:04 PM 12/25/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I do not see any problem getting to 200 mph IAS in the XL. During my
>>Phase I FLIGHT TEST . I took my XL (in a shallow to slightly steep dive
>>while monitoring RPM to keep my Jab below 3300 rpm) to 195 IAS to check
>>that there were no indications of any control buzz. It was a non-event,
>>but something I will not do again purposefully during normal flight. My
>>Vne is 180 mph /156 kts (below 1300 lbs gross) and 160 mph/140 kts (above
>>1300 lb gross wt)
>>It is very easy to go into the air speed "yellow" zone (148 mph /129 kts)
>>and approach the "red' line during decents with power to keep the
>>cylinders warm.
>>
>>Tony Graziano
>>601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 187 hrs
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44@rkymtn.net
>
>
>
Message 8
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Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I cut
out my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after
bending I noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I
found that I had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark
.After building most of the parts you would not think that one could not
make this kind of a basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know
other builders do not make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the
scrap pile along with the other bad pieces that I have made. Things will
get better . Wade Jones South Texas
Message 9
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| Subject: | Nav antenna location? |
There has already been one satellite hit by a meteor.... one of the Anik
satellites was hit years ago and did disrupt a lot of communications up
here
in Canada. The possibility of some of the GPS constellation getting
hit
by debris increases almost daily. Are you sure you want to be over
unfamiliar terrain with nothing more than a compass and a map when the
confidence flag on your GPS shows up?? If you never fly over unfamiliar
terrain and never fly IFR then it all becomes inconsequential.
Ask yourself why the Transport Category and piloted Military planes
still
carry conventional instruments. When it comes to Military aircraft you
will
notice it is only when they remove the pilot that they remove the
instruments.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Moore
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
For Andy Elliot
Andy,
Please contact me off list. I too am one of the few TD QB XL builders
(barely started) and I'd like the opportunity to converse with a 'like'
builder on various issues. Not sure how to contact you thru the list
from
this message.
BTW, I think GPS is the only way to go (other than basic pilotage) in
the
21st century. If the GPS systems are all down, we probably won't want to
go
anywhere even if the VOR systems are still operational.
Mike Moore (M2)
Gardnerville, NV
Soarmoore2@yahoo.com
Do not archive
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
If you remember your basic radio theory... there is a loss of signal
between vertical and horizontal polarized antennas. At VHF frequencies
I
think you will find this signal drop is close to 20%. (that one I
haven't
looked up) The VOR uses a horizontally polarized array on the ground
so
for the best reception the planes VOR antenna should be horizontally
polarized ( horizontal installation). Com antennas on the ground were
originally just a whip so the antennas mounted on the planes were also
vertical
With an ADF you will actually see the needle swing as the plane turns
...
but it will always point at the transmitting tower.
Glad to see not every one had junked their VOR for GPS. A military
flare up
or a wayward meteor could leave you lost for a place to land. Today
either
one of these things are possible.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dino
Bortolin
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
Andy,
As Noel said, the direction on the VOR won't change as the rudder moves.
The
VOR reading depends on the position of the plane relative to the VOR
station, but not on the plane's heading. I remember my instructor having
me
do a 360 while watching the needle to prove this out.
Dino
On 12/22/06, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
The turning of our rudder will not affect the direction your VOR will
give
you. Wind resistance is minimal... the biggest problem, which is no
problem, is routing the coaxial cable.
Merry Christmas
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew
Elliott
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I am building a 601XL taildragger and have been mulling over where to
put
the still-hypothetical NAV antenna. You know, the two-rods-in-a-V
thing.
Since the 601 doesn't have a fixed vertical fin, I am thinking that atop
the
rudder, while possible, may not be such a good idea. Maybe on the
bottom of
the fuselage just forward or aft of the access door? I am worried that
such
a position will lend itself to continuous damage from flying pebbles in
the
propwash, etc. Any other ideas or proffered existing solutions?
Thanks,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location? |
I think that you should have a back up but then again with GPS is designed for
24 sats, and most of the time the DoD has extras running, last time I looked
they had a total of 27. You have to have only 3 birds to give you x y and 4 to
give you x y and z. It is very rare that you fall under 4. I have been dealing
with GPS since the early 90s and in my previous life had to check GPS constellation
daily. This is for survey grade GPS and I could then plan the day for
the crews on when to travel, breaks, lunch and etc. Being that it is survey grade
I wouldn't shoot anything under 4 sats. The longest that we would usually
be under is no longer than 20 minutes. Also keep in mind that as long as nothing
changes with the DoD that same constellation (high PDOP and low Sat numbers)
will be 4 minutes earlier the next day.
As for Military they have ways to *#$@ (starts with f and ends with ck and its
not Fire Truck) with the enemy. The DoD knows that GPS is global and that the
enemy has off the shelf products. They can send different levels of accuracy
over different areas (remember here before 2000, when accuarcy was off 100 to
300 feet?). One example was in Gulf War I when the DoD sent incorrect GPS data
to Iraq tank division and lead them into a trap.
So with all that said the DoD is shutting down GPS sats each and every day. You
can check this out by going to the USCG website (USCG is the one branch of the
military that handles the cilvilian end of GPS). From there you can take a
look at the NANUs. The average life span of a bird is 7 years. They go up, they
go down it is the nature of the beast.
Now if things go real serious in the world I would be worried about WAAS. This
is the free DGPS that most off the shelf GPS products have. This give you the
level of accuracy of about 3 meters. If the US found itself under attack and
all commerical air traffic was grounded then you would see the plug pulled on
WAAS and GPS would have SA turned back on. If that would happen then we would
have to set up like we did before with our own DGPS then doing post process or
spitting out DGPS via our own radio network.
But with that said relax, enjoy the day, fire up the GPS and don't worry but then
again keep a map, and that compass handy in case....batteries go down or?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
There has already been one satellite hit by a meteor.... one of the Anik satellites
was hit years ago and did disrupt a lot of communications up here in Canada.
The possibility of some of the GPS constellation getting hit by debris increases
almost daily. Are you sure you want to be over unfamiliar terrain with
nothing more than a compass and a map when the confidence flag on your GPS shows
up?? If you never fly over unfamiliar terrain and never fly IFR then it all
becomes inconsequential. Ask yourself why the Transport Category and piloted
Military planes still carry conventional instruments. When it comes to Military
aircraft you will notice it is only when they remove the pilot that they
remove the instruments. Noel -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Moore
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 11:23 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
For Andy Elliot Andy, Please contact me off list. I too am one of the few
TD QB XL builders (barely started) and I'd like the opportunity to converse with
a 'like' builder on various issues. Not sure how to contact you thru the list
from this message. BTW, I think GPS is the only way to go (other than basic
pilotage) in the 21st century. If the GPS systems are all down, we probably
won't want to go anywhere even if the VOR systems are still operational.
Mike Moore (M2) Gardnerville, NV Soarmoore2@yahoo.com Do not archive
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote: If you remember your basic radio theory...
there is a loss of signal between vertical and horizontal polarized antennas.
At VHF frequencies I think you will find this signal drop is close to 20%.
(that one I haven't looked up) The VOR uses a horizontally polarized array
on the ground so for the best reception the planes VOR antenna should be horizontally
polarized ( horizontal installation). Com antennas on the ground were
originally just a whip so the antennas mounted on the planes were also vertical
With an ADF you will actually see the needle swing as the plane turns ...
but it will always point at the transmitting tower. Glad to see not every one
had junked their VOR for GPS. A military flare up or a wayward meteor could
leave you lost for a place to land. Today either one of these things are possible.
Noel -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dino Bortolin
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:17 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
Andy,
As Noel said, the direction on the VOR won't change as the rudder moves. The VOR
reading depends on the position of the plane relative to the VOR station, but
not on the plane's heading. I remember my instructor having me do a 360 while
watching the needle to prove this out.
Dino
On 12/22/06, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote: The turning of our rudder
will not affect the direction your VOR will give you. Wind resistance is minimal...
the biggest problem, which is no problem, is routing the coaxial cable.
Merry Christmas Noel -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew Elliott
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:50 PM
To: Zenith-List Digest Server
Subject: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I am building a 601XL taildragger and have been mulling over where to put the
still-hypothetical NAV antenna. You know, the two-rods-in-a-V thing. Since the
601 doesn't have a fixed vertical fin, I am thinking that atop the rudder, while
possible, may not be such a good idea. Maybe on the bottom of the fuselage
just forward or aft of the access door? I am worried that such a position will
lend itself to continuous damage from flying pebbles in the propwash, etc.
Any other ideas or proffered existing solutions? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa,
AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
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and email virus protection.
Message 11
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Wade-
Any builder who says he doesn't make the same type of mistake is
either
1. The luckiest man in the world
2. An Idiot Savant
3. A liar, or
4. Chris Heintz.
Look at the bright side.If you're like me, you have enough material
to build another plane, and do it right the second time around.
Hang in there.
Bill Naumuk
Still polishing HDS Fuselage c-section
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Screw-up
Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I
cut out my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after
bending I noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I
found that I had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark
.After building most of the parts you would not think that one could not
make this kind of a basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know
other builders do not make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the
scrap pile along with the other bad pieces that I have made. Things will
get better . Wade Jones South Texas
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: odd and ends |
All, FWIW-
I thought you HAD to have a whiskey compass. I agree with Juan re:
airspeed indicator, and figure the primary backup to be a steam gauge
altimeter.
For all the more total hours I have in my logbook, I've been in 2 life
or death emergency situations. The main thing you need is self control. All
the stories about vertigo, "The Leans" and panic are true. Don't know what
else to say but fly the plane down. Hopefully, so you taxi into your hangar
where you can empty your pants with relative dignity.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
>
>
>
Message 13
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Chris, your msg still does not show.
Yesterday I sent a trouble report to Matt.
Carlos
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Just a test to see why I cannot see my mesages on the Web forum but
its OK normally
Chris
Do not archive
On 26/12/06, Chris sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Nav antenna location? |
>From the "been there, done that" dept.: About six or seven years ago, I was flying
from Dallas to Little Rock, following the "dotted line" on my Garmin PGS
III. About a half an hour into the flight, my GPS signals disappeared (all of
them). I recycled, moved the antenna several times and cursed, all without effect.
I was not alarmed nor lost, because I also had a VOR-based flight plan
and a sectional on my lap, and I knew where I was from looking out the windows.
After about five minutes, the signal returned and I went back to following the
"dotted line". On the return trip, the same thing happened about 15 minutes
before landing. The signal had not returned when I shut down.
Moral: "Belt & Suspenders" is as valid for flying as it is for britches.
All our nav systems are good, but any of them might fail, either at the source
or at the receiving end. So, it is wise to have more than one system in use at
all times. Pilotage, ded reckoning, VOR, GPS, ADF - Pick any two, or better,
three, to assure that you know where your are and where you are going at all
times, even if one fails.
Jay in Dallas [the "wise" one :>) ]
"Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>There has already been one satellite hit by a meteor.... one of the Anik
>satellites was hit years ago and did disrupt a lot of communications up here
>in Canada. The possibility of some of the GPS constellation getting hit
>by debris increases almost daily. Are you sure you want to be over
>unfamiliar terrain with nothing more than a compass and a map when the
>confidence flag on your GPS shows up?? If you never fly over unfamiliar
>terrain and never fly IFR then it all becomes inconsequential.
>
>Ask yourself why the Transport Category and piloted Military planes still
>carry conventional instruments. When it comes to Military aircraft you will
>notice it is only when they remove the pilot that they remove the
>instruments.
>
>
>Noel
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Moore
>Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 11:23 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
>
>
>For Andy Elliot
>
>Andy,
>
>Please contact me off list. I too am one of the few TD QB XL builders
>(barely started) and I'd like the opportunity to converse with a 'like'
>builder on various issues. Not sure how to contact you thru the list from
>this message.
>
>BTW, I think GPS is the only way to go (other than basic pilotage) in the
>21st century. If the GPS systems are all down, we probably won't want to go
>anywhere even if the VOR systems are still operational.
>
>Mike Moore (M2)
>Gardnerville, NV
>Soarmoore2@yahoo.com
>
>Do not archive
>
>Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>If you remember your basic radio theory... there is a loss of signal
>between vertical and horizontal polarized antennas. At VHF frequencies I
>think you will find this signal drop is close to 20%. (that one I haven't
>looked up) The VOR uses a horizontally polarized array on the ground so
>for the best reception the planes VOR antenna should be horizontally
>polarized ( horizontal installation). Com antennas on the ground were
>originally just a whip so the antennas mounted on the planes were also
>vertical
>
>With an ADF you will actually see the needle swing as the plane turns ...
>but it will always point at the transmitting tower.
>
>Glad to see not every one had junked their VOR for GPS. A military flare up
>or a wayward meteor could leave you lost for a place to land. Today either
>one of these things are possible.
>
>
>Noel
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dino Bortolin
>Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:17 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
>
>
>Andy,
>
>As Noel said, the direction on the VOR won't change as the rudder moves. The
>VOR reading depends on the position of the plane relative to the VOR
>station, but not on the plane's heading. I remember my instructor having me
>do a 360 while watching the needle to prove this out.
>
>Dino
>
>
>On 12/22/06, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>The turning of our rudder will not affect the direction your VOR will give
>you. Wind resistance is minimal... the biggest problem, which is no
>problem, is routing the coaxial cable.
>
>Merry Christmas
>Noel
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew
>Elliott
>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:50 PM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server
>Subject: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
>
>
>I am building a 601XL taildragger and have been mulling over where to put
>the still-hypothetical NAV antenna. You know, the two-rods-in-a-V thing.
>Since the 601 doesn't have a fixed vertical fin, I am thinking that atop the
>rudder, while possible, may not be such a good idea. Maybe on the bottom of
>the fuselage just forward or aft of the access door? I am worried that such
>a position will lend itself to continuous damage from flying pebbles in the
>propwash, etc. Any other ideas or proffered existing solutions?
>
>Thanks,
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE (reserved)
>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>
Message 15
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Wade, you are right: "other builders never make this kind of mistakes."
(Tongue firmly planted on cheek!)
Just yesterday I did something similar.
You have plenty of company - don't let it demotivate you.
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 26/12/06, Wade Jones <waj@quik.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I cut
> out my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after bending I
> noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I found that I
> had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark .After building most
> of the parts you would not think that one could not make this kind of a
> basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know other builders do not
> make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the scrap pile along with the
> other bad pieces that I have made. Things will get better . Wade Jones
> South Texas
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | GPS Navigation online workshop |
I was just catching up on some old E-Mails and came across this online
workshop on GPS Nav. It took about ten minutes to download through this
wet
string dialup connection I'm stuck with.
http://www.pilotworkshop.com/avweb/dec2006/player.html
while there check out the AVweb site lots of good ideas there just be
aware
a lot of them are directed at the commercial sector.
Fly safe.... Happy New Year.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
billbutlergps@aim.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I think that you should have a back up but then again with GPS is
designed
for 24 sats, and most of the time the DoD has extras running, last time
I
looked they had a total of 27. You have to have only 3 birds to give you
x y
and 4 to give you x y and z. It is very rare that you fall under 4. I
have
been dealing with GPS since the early 90s and in my previous life had to
check GPS constellation daily. This is for survey grade GPS and I could
then
plan the day for the crews on when to travel, breaks, lunch and etc.
Being
that it is survey grade I wouldn't shoot anything under 4 sats. The
longest
that we would usually be under is no longer than 20 minutes. Also keep
in
mind that as long as nothing changes with the DoD that same
constellation
(high PDOP and low Sat numbers) will be 4 minutes earlier the next day.
As for Military they have ways to *#$@ (starts with f and ends with ck
and
its not Fire Truck) with the enemy. The DoD knows that GPS is global and
that the enemy has off the shelf products. They can send different
levels of
accuracy over different areas (remember here before 2000, when accuarcy
was
off 100 to 300 feet?). One example was in Gulf War I when the DoD sent
incorrect GPS data to Iraq tank division and lead them into a trap.
So with all that said the DoD is shutting down GPS sats each and every
day.
You can check this out by going to the USCG website (USCG is the one
branch
of the military that handles the cilvilian end of GPS). From there you
can
take a look at the NANUs. The average life span of a bird is 7 years.
They
go up, they go down it is the nature of the beast.
Now if things go real serious in the world I would be worried about
WAAS.
This is the free DGPS that most off the shelf GPS products have. This
give
you the level of accuracy of about 3 meters. If the US found itself
under
attack and all commerical air traffic was grounded then you would see
the
plug pulled on WAAS and GPS would have SA turned back on. If that would
happen then we would have to set up like we did before with our own DGPS
then doing post process or spitting out DGPS via our own radio network.
But with that said relax, enjoy the day, fire up the GPS and don't worry
but
then again keep a map, and that compass handy in case....batteries go
down
or?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Sent: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
There has already been one satellite hit by a meteor.... one of the Anik
satellites was hit years ago and did disrupt a lot of communications up
here
in Canada. The possibility of some of the GPS constellation getting
hit
by debris increases almost daily. Are you sure you want to be over
unfamiliar terrain with nothing more than a compass and a map when the
confidence flag on your GPS shows up?? If you never fly over unfamiliar
terrain and never fly IFR then it all becomes inconsequential.
Ask yourself why the Transport Category and piloted Military planes
still
carry conventional instruments. When it comes to Military aircraft you
will
notice it is only when they remove the pilot that they remove the
instruments.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Moore
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
For Andy Elliot
Andy,
Please contact me off list. I too am one of the few TD QB XL builders
(barely started) and I'd like the opportunity to converse with a 'like'
builder on various issues. Not sure how to contact you thru the list
from
this message.
BTW, I think GPS is the only way to go (other than basic pilotage) in
the
21st century. If the GPS systems are all down, we probably won't want to
go
anywhere even if the VOR systems are still operational.
Mike Moore (M2)
Gardnerville, NV
Soarmoore2@yahoo.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo('Soarmoore2@yahoo.com',
'');>
Do not archive
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
If you remember your basic radio theory... there is a loss of signal
between vertical and horizontal polarized antennas. At VHF frequencies
I
think you will find this signal drop is close to 20%. (that one I
haven't
looked up) The VOR uses a horizontally polarized array on the ground
so
for the best reception the planes VOR antenna should be horizontally
polarized ( horizontal installation). Com antennas on the ground were
originally just a whip so the antennas mounted on the planes were also
vertical
With an ADF you will actually see the needle swing as the plane turns
...
but it will always point at the transmitting tower.
Glad to see not every one had junked their VOR for GPS. A military
flare up
or a wayward meteor could leave you lost for a place to land. Today
either
one of these things are possible.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dino
Bortolin
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
Andy,
As Noel said, the direction on the VOR won't change as the rudder moves.
The
VOR reading depends on the position of the plane relative to the VOR
station, but not on the plane's heading. I remember my instructor having
me
do a 360 while watching the needle to prove this out.
Dino
On 12/22/06, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo('noelloveys@yahoo.ca', '');> > wrote:
The turning of our rudder will not affect the direction your VOR will
give
you. Wind resistance is minimal... the biggest problem, which is no
problem, is routing the coaxial cable.
Merry Christmas
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo('owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com',
'');>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo('owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com',
'');>
] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew Elliott
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I am building a 601XL taildragger and have been mulling over where to
put
the still-hypothetical NAV antenna. You know, the two-rods-in-a-V
thing.
Since the 601 doesn't have a fixed vertical fin, I am thinking that atop
the
rudder, while possible, may not be such a good idea. Maybe on the
bottom of
the fuselage just forward or aft of the access door? I am worried that
such
a position will lend itself to continuous damage from flying pebbles in
the
propwash, etc. Any other ideas or proffered existing solutions?
Thanks,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Message 17
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Wade,
I had ordered wing kits and cut the wrong angle on my 2nd rear spar. I
thought life was over. Then Dave posted his Cheap Brake, and Bill Naumuk
convinced me to scratch build the remainder. I saved thousands just on the
center section! You just never know.
I'm not sure how making a mistake on your floor piece is going to translate
into a bonus for you, but, as the little boy happily said while cleaning the
stalls, "With all this manure, there HAS to be a pony in here somewhere!"
Welcome to the Oh Sh_t Club!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Jones
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Screw-up
Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I cut out
my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after bending I
noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I found that I
had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark .After building most
of the parts you would not think that one could not make this kind of a
basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know other builders do not
make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the scrap pile along with the
other bad pieces that I have made. Things will get better . Wade Jones
South Texas
Message 18
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| Subject: | Price of learning : doing some mistakes |
Yes Mistakes=85
Its the price and the way of learning good skill and experience. When I
was
young I got the chance to learn with my father, who was very patient
with
all his employees. I can=92t count the material I scrap when measuring,
cutting, plying aluminum or figuring how things fits. Have you scrap an
aluminum door because its open on wrong side?
I made few mistake now because another pay for my education, but I still
continue do to some. I put it on my budget and try to do not the same
twice
and I am happy with that. Thanks to my father, he contribute to my
project
more than he can know.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
_____
De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bill
Naumuk
Envoy=E9 : Tuesday, December 26, 2006 11:32 AM
=C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Zenith-List: Screw-up
Wade-
Any builder who says he doesn't make the same type of mistake is
either
1. The luckiest man in the world
2. An Idiot Savant
3. A liar, or
4. Chris Heintz.
Look at the bright side.If you're like me, you have enough material
to
build another plane, and do it right the second time around.
Hang in there.
Bill Naumuk
Still polishing HDS Fuselage c-section
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones <mailto:waj@quik.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Screw-up
Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I cut
out
my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after bending I
noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I found that
I
had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark .After building
most
of the parts you would not think that one could not make this kind of a
basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know other builders do not
make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the scrap pile along with
the
other bad pieces that I have made. Things will get better . Wade Jones
South Texas
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 19
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|
Wade, OTHER builders make these mistakes and more!!
On my Rv3 about a hundred yrs ago(actually 34 or so) I was assembling the airplane
in the driveway for the first time with several Chapter buddies helping,everything
was going good 'till we got down to the flaps and it was discovered
that I had built two left ones and no right ones. The guys were laughing so hard
on the lawn I thought I was going to have to call medics. They STILL won't
let me forget it. In addition I built 5 trim tabs (hard part on the early RV's)2-3
carb boxes and a multitude of misc stuff that either didn't fit or I decided
on a better way to do it. Hang in there, it's worth it! John Baytown
TX
>Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I cut out my
front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after bending I noticed
one side was longer than the other .After checking I found that I had made a most
basic mistake ,I missed the center mark .After building most of the parts
you would not think that one could not make this kind of a basic mistake .I
feel dumb this morning as I know other builders do not make this kind of mistakes
.It will go into the scrap pile along with the other bad pieces that I have
made. Things will get better . Wade Jones South Texas
>
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| Subject: | Nav antenna location? |
The British use the term "Belt and Braces" Braces being the term for
suspenders. Either way that was my point.
Happy New Year to all!
Do not archive
Noel
> Moral: "Belt & Suspenders" is as valid for flying as it is
> for britches.
Message 21
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At 09:01 AM 12/26/2006 Tuesday, you wrote:
>Chris, your msg still does not show.
>Yesterday I sent a trouble report to Matt.
>
>Carlos
>
>&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
>
>
>Just a test to see why I cannot see my mesages on the Web forum but its OK normally
> Chris
> Do not archive
>
>On 26/12/06, Chris sinfield <<mailto:chris_sinfield@yahoo.com>chris_sinfield@yahoo.com> wrote:
Chris,
Try enabling "plain-text" mode on your email application. I think this will solve
the problem.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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| Subject: | Are these the J-Nuts? |
I'm having a bit of trouble funding the J-Nuts that have been discussed here. Are
these the ones?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/clipnut.php
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83619#83619
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location? |
Very carefully. :)
During phase I testing, I went up several thousand feet and put it in
a dive until I reached 200 MPH for a few seconds and gently pulled it
out of the dive. This was just to verify the Vne of 180 mph. (The
definition of Vne is 90% of the maximum demonstrated airspeed of the
airplane.) This was after several flights of gradually opening the
flight envelope and it was done in smooth air. I don't make a habit
of flying that fast though.
On Dec 24, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Screw the antenna. How did you get to 200MPH?
>
>
> bryanmmartin wrote:
>> I have a home-made VOR antenna mounted on top of the rudder on my XL.
>> I have test flown the plane to 200MPH and have seen no hint of
>> flutter. The antenna is mounted just forward of the rudder spar, so
>> the balance change in the rudder is minimal.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Are these the J-Nuts? |
Those are U nuts with a threaded insert for a machine screw. AS&S also has U
nuts for sheet metal screws: look about 2/3rds of the way down
www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/tinnerman.php
I've looked long and hard and don't think Spruce offers J nuts. Don't forget
that Larry offered the many that he had left over.
BTW: don't forget this (From the Spruce web page: "IMPORTANT: Speed nuts for
aircraft are designed to fit standard AN530-AN531 type B sheet metal screws
only. Do not use pointed type A sheet metal screws with aircraft Speed nuts.
There is a difference in root diameter and thread pitch. Screw lengths: B
type sheet metal screws have a blunt taper at the end. To be certain the
fastener prongs grip on the full root diameter, the screw should protrude
two to three threads beyond the prongs."
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Are these the J-Nuts? |
The ones you want....from McMaster Carr.
McMaster-Carr
Type "J Nuts" in the search box...
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I now have over three hours flying time and several landings on my 701 with the
slats removed and VG's on. I have over 75 hours in/on this plane. At this time
I see no reason to ever put the slats back on. I will leave the mounting tabs
on, as some day when I sell the new owner may want to try the slats. I have
lots of them, (56 VG's) on each wing They are placed in the CCI pattern, which
is, 2 close together then about a 5" inch gap and so on. The leading edge of
the VG's is ten percent back from the leading edge of the wing chord, which includes
the flaperons, but not the slats. My plane is ever so much easier to land.
It sure feels like it climbs better. No stall just the mush as before. Trims
are identical as with the slats on. If I didn't look out the window in flight
I would never know the slats were missing. I think I have more VG's on then
I would need though, as a result I may be getting some drag as I only gained
4-5 miles per hour at the same RPM. One thing I did lose is the uniqueness of
the plane. Those slats are a real attention getter and conversation item. Could
it be that's why Zenith retains them? Of course if a designer were to put VG's
on his plane it would look like he/she was trying to correct something!
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83632#83632
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring up your wings |
I was able to see his message in "raw source" mode. This problem
seems to occur with some messages sent from Yahoo.com email accounts.
I don't know what's up with that.
Anyway, for simple lighting circuits like the nav lights and landing
lights, using the aircraft aluminum for ground shouldn't cause any
problems as long as you use something like NoOx on the terminations
to prevent corrosion. If I were using 100W halogen landing lights I
would use a dedicated ground just because of the relatively large
current required. Running a separate ground wire for the strobes may
help reduce electrical noise from that circuit. Twisting the power
and ground wires around each other on the strobe circuit may help also.
Most of your other circuits should have a separate ground wire and
all your ground wires should be tied to a common point. Some of your
engine gauges need a relatively heavy separate ground wire to ensure
accuracy because any voltage drop across the ground wire can throw
off the readings.
Special care should be taken with the grounding of your audio
circuits. Each component in the audio system should have a dedicated
ground wire. All of the shields of your audio signal lines should be
grounded on one end only and all at the same point. (This rule does
NOT apply to the shields on antenna cables which MUST be connected at
both ends.) For instance if you have an intercom or an audio panel
that all of your audio signals are routed through, the shields should
be connected together where the audio lines connect to the intercom
or audio panel and that point should be connected to you common
grounding point. The shields of audio signal wires should not be used
as part of the audio signal path, they are only used to keep external
noise out of the signal wires. If your mic and headphone jacks are
mounted to the airframe metal, you should use insulating washers to
isolate the shells of the jacks from ground. All of this is to
prevent ground loops that can cause noisy audio circuits. You should
use two wire shielded cable for the headphone jacks and three wire
shielded wire for the microphone jacks, the third wire carries the
push to talk signal.
On my plane, the #4 negative wire from the battery is connected to a
point on the firewall and then continues on to the engine block. All
of my dedicated ground wires are connected to tins same point on the
firewall.
On Dec 25, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Carlos and Chris,
>
> Thanks, Carlos, for making the text visible. I don't know the
> trick you used, but I do know many recent posts have been empty of
> any real information. I thought maybe there is a new filter that
> guarantees only nasty messages get through . . .
>
>
>>
>> On 25/12/06, Chris sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com > wrote:
>>
>>
>> OK,
>> Having read lots of stuff including Bingles and watching the
>> Homebuilt help 101 video, there are 2 main thoughts as to the
>> earthing
>> out of components. ...
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 part 7H2-6 |
I finished my Horiz Stab as you did. I finally took of the top skin and replaced
those brackets with .063 material. I had to beat myself up first but it feels
better now its done....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83634#83634
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Ron,
If the new owner doesn't want the forward slats give me an email and I will.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: rlee468@comcast.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: vg's
I now have over three hours flying time and several landings on my 701 with the
slats removed and VG's on. I have over 75 hours in/on this plane. At this time
I
see no reason to ever put the slats back on. I will leave the mounting tabs on,
as some day when I sell the new owner may want to try the slats. I have lots of
them, (56 VG's) on each wing They are placed in the CCI pattern, which is, 2
close together then about a 5" inch gap and so on. The leading edge of the VG's
is ten percent back from the leading edge of the wing chord, which includes the
flaperons, but not the slats. My plane is ever so much easier to land. It sure
feels like it climbs better. No stall just the mush as before. Trims are
identical as with the slats on. If I didn't look out the window in flight I
would never know the slats were missing. I think I have more VG's on then I
would need though, as a result I may be getting some drag as I only gained 4-5
miles per hour at the same RPM. One thing I did !
lose is the uniqueness of the plane. Those slats are a real attention getter
and conversation item. Could it be that's why Zenith retains them? Of course if
a designer were to put VG's on his plane it would look like he/she was trying to
correct something!
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83632#83632
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam
and email virus protection.
Message 30
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Ron,
Thanks for your report on removing the slats. It is interesting that your
experiences seem to parallel the experience of others regarding the equal or
improved landing/takeoff, cruise, and stall behavior. How about any
differences in the takeoff and landing roll distances?
Bob Eli
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: vg's
>
> I now have over three hours flying time and several landings on my 701
> with the slats removed and VG's on. I have over 75 hours in/on this plane.
> At this time I see no reason to ever put the slats back on. I will leave
> the mounting tabs on, as some day when I sell the new owner may want to
> try the slats. I have lots of them, (56 VG's) on each wing They are placed
> in the CCI pattern, which is, 2 close together then about a 5" inch gap
> and so on. The leading edge of the VG's is ten percent back from the
> leading edge of the wing chord, which includes the flaperons, but not the
> slats. My plane is ever so much easier to land. It sure feels like it
> climbs better. No stall just the mush as before. Trims are identical as
> with the slats on. If I didn't look out the window in flight I would never
> know the slats were missing. I think I have more VG's on then I would need
> though, as a result I may be getting some drag as I only gained 4-5 miles
> per hour at the same RPM. One thing I did !
> lose is the uniqueness of the plane. Those slats are a real attention
> getter and conversation item. Could it be that's why Zenith retains them?
> Of course if a designer were to put VG's on his plane it would look like
> he/she was trying to correct something!
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83632#83632
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 part 7H2-6 |
I got to 200 hours befor I found 1-inch cracks through both mounts. Scared the
heck out of me [Shocked] . You'll sleep better after you replace the .040 mounts
with the .060 ones.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83641#83641
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location? |
Bryan,
Did you go with a 45* rabbit ear or 90*? What length? How is the reception?
Thanx...Eddie
bryanmmartin wrote:
> I have a home-made VOR antenna mounted on top of the rudder on my XL.
> I have test flown the plane to 200MPH and have seen no hint of
> flutter. The antenna is mounted just forward of the rudder spar, so
> the balance change in the rudder is minimal.
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83642#83642
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring up your wings |
Anyone know where we can buy the Common Earth fittings like in the Homebuilt Help
DVD? or the fuse boxes?
Chris
Do not archive
.Most of your other circuits should have a?separate ground wire and all your ground
wires should be tied to a common point. Some of your engine?gauges need a
relatively heavy?separate ground wire to ensure accuracy because any voltage
drop?across the ground wire can throw off the readings.?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83643#83643
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I just cut the slat brackets off my 701. I was able to match the claims
of the our Aussie friends.
The thing I found on my 701 was that the slats aren't active on approach
unless the plane is forced into a high AOA, high drag attitude and kept
there thruout the approach/landing(dragged in)-not usually considered
good form for all the obvious and well known reasons unless necessary
for high priority mission reasons of some sort. Also when the slats
aren't active my plane was unstable on approach unless flown at Cessna
150 like speeds-hardly stylish for a proper STOL plane. Along with the
rather nasty stability issue there was all sorts of airframe buffet with
the slats on. The vgs fixed all the above and made my 701 what I
consider to be a decent flying airplane-I couldn't say that when the
slats were on it.
I've got something like 16 pages of flight test data. I consulted with
an aero engineer on a possible structural issue here. The only downside
I could find was that on takeoff I do believe you lose a minute amount
to the slats(difficult to get any flight test numbers on this) but it's
hardly relevant(except for showing off) since the thing will still come
out in about a third of what it takes for a max effort landing(with the
vgs in just the right position-I found placement to be important).I have
followed all the recent posts on vgs and considered their merit before
deciding what was right for me. What I noticed was that most of the more
opinionated posts came from those who had never flown a 701 much less
tried to do an objective before/after evaluation. At any rate I decided
that the right thing for me was to cut the slat hangers off and bondo
the holes up.
Aviation folks being what they are I know you will decide what's right
for you-thats what i did.
Joe
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| Subject: | Re:Bolt Torque and other important info |
Fellow builders, pilots, homebuilt aircraft owners,
I personally believe the information contained in AC 43.13-1B and AC
43.13-2A contains information EVERY homebuilder should have in his possession.
It
is the FAA "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices, Aircraft Inspection
and Repair. Jeppesen puts out a copy of this important Advisory Circular
(nearly 2" thick) which covers the majority of questions asked on the site
which are related to structural fasteners; electronic wiring; covering everything
the title mentions.
If it is important enough for a certified mechanic to know, shouldn't it
apply to all of us? Our lives are worth the same if in a homebuilt or a
production plane!!!
Sincerely,
Elbie EAA 38308, I've been messing with the homebuilts for a long time
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
_http://www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com/)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Are these the J-Nuts? |
Ok... the next question is (aimed mainly towards Larry) is Shape 1 or 2?
[quote="VideoFlyer(at)aol.com"]The ones you want....from McMaster Carr.
McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/)
Type "J Nuts" in the search box...
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83648#83648
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Just like trim tabs and slats... Right!
VGs are just another tool to help planes fly better. Some need 'em some
don't. Depends not only on the plane but also the use of the plane. E.g.
speed vs. STOL
I almost forgot Do not archive again.
Noel
Of course if a designer were to put
> VG's on his plane it would look like he/she was trying to
> correct something!
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
Message 38
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Hello Group ,thanks to all that replied to my screw-up post .Makes me
not feel not alone in making mistakes .I cut and bent another cabin
floor today ,this time correct .Thanks for sharing your experiences and
offering me encouragement . Wade
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Screw-up
Hello Group ,I am not off to a good start this morning .Yesterday I
cut out my front cabin floor .Today I bent the 45 degree sides ,after
bending I noticed one side was longer than the other .After checking I
found that I had made a most basic mistake ,I missed the center mark
.After building most of the parts you would not think that one could not
make this kind of a basic mistake .I feel dumb this morning as I know
other builders do not make this kind of mistakes .It will go into the
scrap pile along with the other bad pieces that I have made. Things will
get better . Wade Jones South Texas
Message 39
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| Subject: | Wiring up your wings |
A fine write up Bryan.
Where a ground wire is used you should be sure it is large enough to
carry
all the current of the items in series with it. E.g. the ground you
mentioned for the landing lights should also be large enough to carry
the
landing lights, strobe lights and nav lights if all are connected to the
same ground wire.
I think you will agree another very important ground wire is the braid
that
goes form the engine mount to the engine block. Quite often problems
with
gauges and starters are the result of a poor grounding braid.
Merry Christmas
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring up your wings
I was able to see his message in "raw source" mode. This problem seems
to
occur with some messages sent from Yahoo.com email accounts. I don't
know
what's up with that.
Anyway, for simple lighting circuits like the nav lights and landing
lights,
using the aircraft aluminum for ground shouldn't cause any problems as
long
as you use something like NoOx on the terminations to prevent corrosion.
If
I were using 100W halogen landing lights I would use a dedicated ground
just
because of the relatively large current required. Running a separate
ground
wire for the strobes may help reduce electrical noise from that circuit.
Twisting the power and ground wires around each other on the strobe
circuit
may help also.
Most of your other circuits should have a separate ground wire and all
your
ground wires should be tied to a common point. Some of your engine
gauges
need a relatively heavy separate ground wire to ensure accuracy because
any
voltage drop across the ground wire can throw off the readings.
Special care should be taken with the grounding of your audio circuits.
Each
component in the audio system should have a dedicated ground wire. All
of
the shields of your audio signal lines should be grounded on one end
only
and all at the same point. (This rule does NOT apply to the shields on
antenna cables which MUST be connected at both ends.) For instance if
you
have an intercom or an audio panel that all of your audio signals are
routed
through, the shields should be connected together where the audio lines
connect to the intercom or audio panel and that point should be
connected to
you common grounding point. The shields of audio signal wires should not
be
used as part of the audio signal path, they are only used to keep
external
noise out of the signal wires. If your mic and headphone jacks are
mounted
to the airframe metal, you should use insulating washers to isolate the
shells of the jacks from ground. All of this is to prevent ground loops
that
can cause noisy audio circuits. You should use two wire shielded cable
for
the headphone jacks and three wire shielded wire for the microphone
jacks,
the third wire carries the push to talk signal.
On my plane, the #4 negative wire from the battery is connected to a
point
on the firewall and then continues on to the engine block. All of my
dedicated ground wires are connected to tins same point on the firewall.
On Dec 25, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
Hi Carlos and Chris,
Thanks, Carlos, for making the text visible. I don't know the trick you
used, but I do know many recent posts have been empty of any real
information. I thought maybe there is a new filter that guarantees only
nasty messages get through . . .
On 25/12/06, Chris sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com > wrote:
OK,
Having read lots of stuff including Bingles and watching the
Homebuilt help 101 video, there are 2 main thoughts as to the earthing
out of components. ...
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 40
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|
Don't cut too fast... one of those slat hangars could make a nice camera
mount. :-) or even a landing light mount.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jpspencer@cableone.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VG's
I just cut the slat brackets off my 701. I was able to match the claims
of
the our Aussie friends.
The thing I found on my 701 was that the slats aren't active on approach
unless the plane is forced into a high AOA, high drag attitude and kept
there thruout the approach/landing(dragged in)-not usually considered
good
form for all the obvious and well known reasons unless necessary for
high
priority mission reasons of some sort. Also when the slats aren't active
my
plane was unstable on approach unless flown at Cessna 150 like
speeds-hardly
stylish for a proper STOL plane. Along with the rather nasty stability
issue
there was all sorts of airframe buffet with the slats on. The vgs fixed
all
the above and made my 701 what I consider to be a decent flying
airplane-I
couldn't say that when the slats were on it.
I've got something like 16 pages of flight test data. I consulted with
an
aero engineer on a possible structural issue here. The only downside I
could
find was that on takeoff I do believe you lose a minute amount to the
slats(difficult to get any flight test numbers on this) but it's hardly
relevant(except for showing off) since the thing will still come out in
about a third of what it takes for a max effort landing(with the vgs in
just
the right position-I found placement to be important).I have followed
all
the recent posts on vgs and considered their merit before deciding what
was
right for me. What I noticed was that most of the more opinionated posts
came from those who had never flown a 701 much less tried to do an
objective
before/after evaluation. At any rate I decided that the right thing for
me
was to cut the slat hangers off and bondo the holes up.
Aviation folks being what they are I know you will decide what's right
for
you-thats what i did.
Joe
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re:Bolt Torque and other important info, CONDITION INSPECTION |
In a message dated 12/26/2006 3:49:08 PM Central Standard Time,
EMAproducts@aol.com writes:
Fellow builders, pilots, homebuilt aircraft owners,
I personally believe the information contained in AC 43.13-1B and AC 43.13-2A
contains information EVERY homebuilder should have in his possession. It is
the FAA "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices, Aircraft Inspection
and Repair. Jeppesen puts out a copy of this important Advisory Circular
(nearly 2" thick) which covers the majority of questions asked on the site which
are
related to structural fasteners; electronic wiring; covering everything the
title mentions.
If it is important enough for a certified mechanic to know, shouldn't it
apply to all of us? Our lives are worth the same if in a homebuilt or a
production plane!!!
Sincerely,
Elbie EAA 38308, I've been messing with the homebuilts for a long time
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
http://www.riteangle.com/
Great advice for all of us Elbie.
As we "Repairman" do the condition inspection for our Experimental Homebuilts
we need to be aware of what & how to inspect, and what condition to look for.
43.13 Advisory Circular helps a lot.
Some EAA Chapters have sessions on Condition Inspection requirements and
procedures. Good to ask about and to request such sessions. EAA TC's and Ex
Repairmen can help. Ask your chapter leaders to set up such sessions. Evan a little
at a time, as in one system at a time will help.
Test your self by writing out an inspection plan, with procedures and check
lists for your aircraft. Ask for help as you do the inspection your self.
If you did not start with the Annual Condition Inspection check list in Part
43, consider returning to go.
Your Repairman Certificate allows you to sign off the condition of an
aircraft that will be flown by someone very dear to your heart.
Jerry
EAA TC, A&P
701 builder
Message 42
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Bully for you Joe,
One question - you said that you found that positioning the VG's is
critical. What position, in terms of % chord (or some other suitable
reference) did you find gives the best performance?
Bob Eli
N701K
----- Original Message -----
From: jpspencer@cableone.net
To: Zenith-List@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:27 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VG's
I just cut the slat brackets off my 701. I was able to match the
claims of the our Aussie friends.
The thing I found on my 701 was that the slats aren't active on
approach unless the plane is forced into a high AOA, high drag attitude
and kept there thruout the approach/landing(dragged in)-not usually
considered good form for all the obvious and well known reasons unless
necessary for high priority mission reasons of some sort. Also when the
slats aren't active my plane was unstable on approach unless flown at
Cessna 150 like speeds-hardly stylish for a proper STOL plane. Along
with the rather nasty stability issue there was all sorts of airframe
buffet with the slats on. The vgs fixed all the above and made my 701
what I consider to be a decent flying airplane-I couldn't say that when
the slats were on it.
I've got something like 16 pages of flight test data. I consulted with
an aero engineer on a possible structural issue here. The only downside
I could find was that on takeoff I do believe you lose a minute amount
to the slats(difficult to get any flight test numbers on this) but it's
hardly relevant(except for showing off) since the thing will still come
out in about a third of what it takes for a max effort landing(with the
vgs in just the right position-I found placement to be important).I have
followed all the recent posts on vgs and considered their merit before
deciding what was right for me. What I noticed was that most of the more
opinionated posts came from those who had never flown a 701 much less
tried to do an objective before/after evaluation. At any rate I decided
that the right thing for me was to cut the slat hangers off and bondo
the holes up.
Aviation folks being what they are I know you will decide what's right
for you-thats what i did.
Joe
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Torque force to apply to AN Bolts |
Hi Jay:
Thanks for the reply. I used the high end of the torque values.
I could not measure the drag torque with anything I had.
Regards, John Read
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Are these the J-Nuts? |
Hi Gig,
The shape for u-nuts and j-nuts can be either. I used standard u-nuts
and shape 2 j-nuts, but
more recently ordered on the most important items 6-32 with edge
distance of .468 j style - #94809A102
and 6-32 with edge distance .296 - #94808A401
Shape is secondary to thread and edge distance. Wide or narrow work the
same but narrow is sometimes easier
to get on in close quarters.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Ok... the next question is (aimed mainly towards Larry) is Shape 1 or 2?
>
>
> [quote="VideoFlyer(at)aol.com"]The ones you want....from McMaster Carr.
>
> McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/)
>
>
> Type "J Nuts" in the search box...
>
>
>> [b]
>>
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83648#83648
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Torque force to apply to AN Bolts |
John'
Your welcome. I wanted to share this information, because I found it so hard to
come by. I first looked in the DOT/FAA manual for torque values, but unless
you know the tensile strength of the bolts, you just can't determine what torque
to apply. That is why I went to ZAC for the values. Nick just gave me the
run-around, so I asked Caleb, directly. As usual, he came through with a succinct
answer.
Jay
JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
>Hi Jay:
> Thanks for the reply. I used the high end of the torque values.
>I could not measure the drag torque with anything I had.
>
>Regards, John Read
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Subaru Mount for a 701 |
I am in need of a engine mount for my 701. I will be mounting a Subaru EA
-81 engine. Does any one know where I can buy such an engine mount?=0A=0ABr
ett=0AN858BH =0AHouston, Texas
Message 47
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Ron,
Have you experienced any change in your angle of climb (Vy)?
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ronlee
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: vg's
I now have over three hours flying time and several landings on my 701 with
the slats removed and VG's on. I have over 75 hours in/on this plane. At
this time I see no reason to ever put the slats back on. I will leave the
mounting tabs on, as some day when I sell the new owner may want to try the
slats. I have lots of them, (56 VG's) on each wing They are placed in the
CCI pattern, which is, 2 close together then about a 5" inch gap and so on.
The leading edge of the VG's is ten percent back from the leading edge of
the wing chord, which includes the flaperons, but not the slats. My plane is
ever so much easier to land. It sure feels like it climbs better. No stall
just the mush as before. Trims are identical as with the slats on. If I
didn't look out the window in flight I would never know the slats were
missing. I think I have more VG's on then I would need though, as a result I
may be getting some drag as I only gained 4-5 miles per hour at the same
RPM. One thing I did !
lose is the uniqueness of the plane. Those slats are a real attention
getter and conversation item. Could it be that's why Zenith retains them? Of
course if a designer were to put VG's on his plane it would look like he/she
was trying to correct something!
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83632#83632
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location? |
I decided to try this question on Zenith for a couple reasons, one I
wanted to see what their answer was and 2 how long it took to respond. I
haven't asked them anything before and was pleased that Nick took 4 hrs
on the day after Christmas.
Oh Yeah, he said don't put it on the moveable surface, put it on the
fuselage directly in front of it. He even sent a picture. John
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I would agree with you if the weight of the antenna was significant
and the
weight and physical dimension of the antenna were a lot further form
the
centre of rotation of the rudder. Also if the plane were a high speed
design then adding bits and pieces to a full flying rudder becomes
more
critical.
I doubt Zenith would sign off a 25lb folded dipole like you will see
on the
tail of your neighbourhood 747 or AN124. A small dipole in the 200Kt
and
below range shouldn't cause a problem.
Noel
>
> I think you will find the BIGGEST problem to be the increased
> potential for flutter that is introduced when you change the
> dynamic balance of the rudder by this much. I would be
> surprised (I CERTAINLY have been before)if Zenith would sign
> off on this mod. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Landing Light Lens Trimming |
How do you trim acrylic? What tools are best for this? I have to trim
about 1 inch off one side of the landing light lens for the Landing
light option on my CH601. I will be grateful for any advice.
Also, I'm having a heck of a time getting the lights in without losing
the springs on the assembly. Does anyone have a good technique for the
installation of the actual lights and the four screws, four springs,
etc. I got flippin' made today and started talking to myself while
trying to get those things screwed in. Someday I'm going to have to
change a bulb. Any thoughts?
Brad DeMeo
Message 50
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| Subject: | Nav antenna location? |
John,
Please post the picture.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Bolding
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:51 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I decided to try this question on Zenith for a couple reasons, one I
wanted to see what their answer was and 2 how long it took to respond. I
haven't asked them anything before and was pleased that Nick took 4 hrs on
the day after Christmas.
Oh Yeah, he said don't put it on the moveable surface, put it on the
fuselage directly in front of it. He even sent a picture. John
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nav antenna location?
I would agree with you if the weight of the antenna was significant and
the
weight and physical dimension of the antenna were a lot further form the
centre of rotation of the rudder. Also if the plane were a high speed
design then adding bits and pieces to a full flying rudder becomes more
critical.
I doubt Zenith would sign off a 25lb folded dipole like you will see on
the
tail of your neighbourhood 747 or AN124. A small dipole in the 200Kt
and
below range shouldn't cause a problem.
Noel
>
> I think you will find the BIGGEST problem to be the increased
> potential for flutter that is introduced when you change the
> dynamic balance of the rudder by this much. I would be
> surprised (I CERTAINLY have been before)if Zenith would sign
> off on this mod. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
> p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron====
=================
bsp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 51
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| Subject: | Landing Light Lens Trimming |
How do you trim acrylic? What tools are best for this? I have to trim
about 1 inch off one side of the landing light lens for the Landing
light option on my CH601. I will be grateful for any advice.
Also, I'm having a heck of a time getting the lights in without losing
the springs on the assembly. Does anyone have a good technique for the
installation of the actual lights and the four screws, four springs,
etc. I got flippin' made today and started talking to myself while
trying to get those things screwed in. Someday I'm going to have to
change a bulb. Any thoughts?
Brad DeMeo
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru Mount for a 701 |
Brett,
Perhaps check on Zenith's website for builders. Most of them state what power plant
they are using. I don't plan on hangine a Subaru on a 701 however I did contact
a few builders on how they handled CG with a heavier engine such as that
one.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: bretttdc@yahoo.com
Sent: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru Mount for a 701
I am in need of a engine mount for my 701. I will be mounting a Subaru EA-81
engine. Does any one know where I can buy such an engine mount?
Brett
N858BH
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam
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Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Are these the J-Nuts? |
Larry
I am very attracted to the convenience of the j-nuts, but I am concerned by
the potential for corrosion problems, since I am unable to find any j-nuts
with cadmium plating to eliminate galvanic corrosion with aluminum. How did
you address this problem? Did you use steel screws, cad plated steel screws
or aluminum screws? Are you concerned about the potential for corrosion
between the screws, nuts, bulkheads, and skin?
Terry
At 07:59 PM 12/26/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Hi Gig,
>The shape for u-nuts and j-nuts can be either. I used standard u-nuts and
>shape 2 j-nuts, but
>more recently ordered on the most important items 6-32 with edge distance
>of .468 j style - #94809A102
>and 6-32 with edge distance .296 - #94808A401
>Shape is secondary to thread and edge distance. Wide or narrow work the
>same but narrow is sometimes easier
>to get on in close quarters.
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>do not archive
>
>Gig Giacona wrote:
>>
>>Ok... the next question is (aimed mainly towards Larry) is Shape 1 or 2?
>>
>>
>>[quote="VideoFlyer(at)aol.com"]The ones you want....from McMaster Carr.
>>
>> McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/)
>>
>>
>> Type "J Nuts" in the search box...
>>
>>
>>>[b]
>>>
>>
>>
>>--------
>>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>>601XL Under Construction
>>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=83648#83648
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44@rkymtn.net
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: odd and ends |
Hello Juan,
Good post, just one thing... Can you elaborate about flying with trim to land...
I will like to know more about it,
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Ed,
I have an EFIS EIS GPS system, not steam guages. For me, round gauages good as
a security blanket, however most EFIS have a 4 hour battery back up. in case
of panel black out, compass is all that is needed for me I found. I fly the
plane by sound for RPM and speed. The RPM and trim dictate the speed so I fly
all my aircraft with trim set to land. thus plan will fly the trim speed.
Just the way I was taught, not the solution to some.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Edward Moody II
>Sent: Dec 23, 2006 7:44 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: odd and ends
>
>First I should thank you for the confidence you place in my ability to choose
an EFIS/EIS that can never fail (my attempt at aircraft construction humor). I
believe that anyone who uses a glass panel as primary instrumentation and does
not give himself a few critical backups is whistling past the graveyard. My
opinion is that I need a whiskey compass if the electrical system is shut down
(my gps eats batteries like a dog eats bacon), an ASI to fly a safe approach,
a tach to manage the engine safely, and my GPS can give me ALT if that's critical
(if the electrical power is off, I'm screwed on that one). The EIS does include
an engine hour meter but the Hobbs is a backup incase the memory in the
unit gets fried. I know, I know, next you'll ask if I wear a belt and suspenders
(I only wear a belt.... I don't care who gets mooned).
>
>Ed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Payne
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 2:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: odd and ends
>
>
> Why the Tiny tach and Hobbs? Don't the AFS boxes provide that?
>
> -- Craig
__________________________________________________
Message 55
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| Subject: | A Series Continentals |
What is an A-80-8? Is it an A65 converted to 80hp?
Hi Steve,
Yes. An A-80-8 is an 80 HP brother of the A-65. They share most of the
same parts. The key differences are: high compression pistons and extra
oil holes in the rod caps, and the 80 HP engine develops its rated
horsepower at a higher RPM than the A-65. In addition you may also need a
larger carb venturi and a larger load jet. In my case, my field elevation
is 4000 ft. and engine performance degrades about 4% per 1000 ft. so all
my horses are Shetland Ponies and my 80 HP engine will only develop 67 HP
at 4000 ft. With this in mind , I made the venturi larger, ( 1 5/16 in.
), but used the standard A-65 load jet.
The conversion is not difficult. Just get a copy of the old original
Continental Parts/Repair manual. It calls out the differences between the
engines. I also balanced, ported, polished and blueprinted my
engine. Balancing is a good thing to do as you'll be running at a higher
RPM, but smoothing out the intake system may have been
counterproductive. According to Archie on the engines list, the 0-200 has
intake passages that are so large that they lose beneficial turbulance. I
assume the same may be true of the A-65 and A-80. Anything you can do to
clean up the exhaust system would of course be beneficial.
You may also need a different prop to get the most from the 80 HP engine.
Have fun!
Dave, 701 with A-80-8 Continental, 90% and holding!
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna location? |
Hello Bryan,
I apprecciate very much you did that Phase one test for me to 200 mph...
Has been done, Now I know I dont need to do it... :-) :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Building a 601 XL
Very carefully. :)
During phase I testing, I went up several thousand feet and put it in
a dive until I reached 200 MPH for a few seconds and gently pulled it
out of the dive. This was just to verify the Vne of 180 mph. (The
definition of Vne is 90% of the maximum demonstrated airspeed of the
airplane.) This was after several flights of gradually opening the
flight envelope and it was done in smooth air. I don't make a habit
of flying that fast though.
On Dec 24, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Screw the antenna. How did you get to 200MPH?
>
>
> bryanmmartin wrote:
>> I have a home-made VOR antenna mounted on top of the rudder on my XL.
>> I have test flown the plane to 200MPH and have seen no hint of
>> flutter. The antenna is mounted just forward of the rudder spar, so
>> the balance change in the rudder is minimal.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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