---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/31/06: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:18 AM - Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (John Livsey) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (chris Sinfield) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Joe and Joan) 4. 07:27 AM - Re: Glare from instrument panel (LarryMcFarland) 5. 07:37 AM - SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Roland Smith) 6. 08:02 AM - Re: Glare from instrument panel (Bill Naumuk) 7. 08:32 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Jim Hoak) 8. 08:39 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Gary Boothe) 9. 09:10 AM - Sort of Aircraft Related (Cort Sims) 10. 09:40 AM - Re: Glare from instrument panel (John Bolding) 11. 09:48 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=) 12. 09:50 AM - Re: Sort of Aircraft Related (Bill Naumuk) 13. 09:55 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (R.P.) 14. 10:14 AM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Bill Naumuk) 15. 10:34 AM - Re: Glare from instrument panel (Bryan Martin) 16. 12:47 PM - Extra Parts (Tim & Diane Shankland) 17. 12:51 PM - Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) (jetboy) 18. 02:14 PM - Pop Rivet holes (mcolbeck) 19. 02:14 PM - SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (BATAR@aol.com) 20. 03:44 PM - Re: Pop Rivet holes (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 21. 04:30 PM - Re: Pop Rivet holes (David Downey) 22. 05:16 PM - Re: Pop Rivet holes (Gary Boothe) 23. 07:01 PM - Need a Chute (Les Goldner) 24. 07:26 PM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (Steve Hulland) 25. 07:26 PM - Build both wings at once? (CH701) (John Marzulli) 26. 08:06 PM - Re: Build both wings at once? (CH701) (Dave Ruddiman) 27. 08:06 PM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (chrisoz@bmail.com.au) 28. 08:35 PM - Re: Pop Rivet holes (nyterminat@aol.com) 29. 08:48 PM - Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED (JG) 30. 08:58 PM - Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) (chris Sinfield) 31. 09:06 PM - Fuel line supplied with the kit? (chris Sinfield) 32. 09:15 PM - Re: Fuel line supplied with the kit? (Bryan Martin) 33. 09:18 PM - Re: Fuel line supplied with the kit? (nyterminat@aol.com) 34. 09:24 PM - Re: Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) (Dave Ruddiman) 35. 09:55 PM - sequence of kits (Brett Hanley) 36. 10:53 PM - Re: Fuel line supplied with the kit? From: Bryan Martin (bryanmmartin@comc (RURUNY@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:52 AM PST US From: John Livsey Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Craig, Without actually measuring the movement it was very slight, around the width of a pen line. The way I tackled it was to stick a piece of tape across the gap between the "adjustment barrel" and the hub proper, cut the tape (fingernail) and then draw a pen line across the gap. I then adjusted the pitch the smallest amount I could. I do use a protractor but only to ensure both blades are tracking the same, within 1/4 deg or better. Regards john >> 0.25mm gave me a 150 RPM change. Is that 0.25mm on the dial and scale on the front of the hub? On mine that looks like a pretty coarse and sloppy adjustment. I think a digital level on the blades might be a better way to set the pitch (or at least to get both blades consistent). But I have yet to spin the prop. -- Craig John Livsey wrote: > > > Paul, > > Yes its ground adjustable but getting it "right" is tricky as the > amount of adjustment is so fine, > probably about 0.25mm gave me a 150 RPM change. > > John > > Hi John, > > Is this the ground adjustable propeller? Did you only try one > pitch setting? > > I am not in the air yet, but I have heard much higher cruise > numbers from others with HDS and Jabiru 3300 combinations. > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > At 03:36 PM 12/30/2006, you wrote: > > > >Hi list, > > > >I've just fitted one of the Sensenich composite propellers to my > >CH601-HDS running a Jabiru 3300. I would be interested to hear > from >anyone that has fitted one to a similar set-up as regards > what sort >of performance and engine RPM they have set-up. > > > >For interest I obtain the following figures (Solo half fuel) > > > >Climb RPM at 70KIAS 3050, RofC about 1400 FPM > > > >Max S&L RPM 3225 at 125KIAS. > > > >Cruise at 2800 RPM 110KIAS. > > > >All figures at around 2500 ASL > > > >The speed figures were straight of the A/S indicator so probably > not >totally accurate and it was a bumpy day. > > > >regards john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED From: "chris Sinfield" Chris Sinfield here, another one from Down Under, home of the great Jab engine. Still in the Airforce after 27 years, C130 Aircraft mechanic (a black hander)then graduated to Flight Engineer on C130's with over 8000 hours. Did a year on B707's as a FE, then needed back on C130's as an FE instructor. Priv Pilot with M/E for over 25 years and had my own PA 28..Got fed up with not allowed to work on my aircraft because I was Airforce trained and not CAA licenced. I had to pay the guy to do/ sign up the work I could do or did. So the Experimental way was for me. Bought an XL kit Feb 06 and it Arrived Jul 06 XL. my build partner is an Airforce Aircraft sheet metal worker ( I hear your crys to have a build partner like that) and best friend for over 25 years. So far all Tail done, Flaps done, Ailerons done, LH wing done, RH started. I am now also the Zodiac XL Australian Support group co-ordinator. we now have 27 being built / finished. Chris XL Jab3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84642#84642 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:03 AM PST US From: "Joe and Joan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED RE: WHO ARE WE? Well, I soloed in 1955 (J3)Joined Navy to be fighter pilot, but failed 2nd eye test, but got great experience as an electricians mate. Ended up with ASMEL INST CFII, Ground Instructor. Owned a PT19, T34, Aero commander, Piper Comanche, Piper Arrow, Aztec and Cessna 411. Started building a Fokker DR1 triplane in the 60's Found a back issue of EAA magazine with much better drawing that the way I was building mine, so had a great scaffold for my Construction business from the bottom wing spar. As most of you know, starting again is much tougher than the first time. Never finished it. I have retired from being a Master Scuba Diving Instructor, 100 ton Masters (Boat Captain), Avionics Shop Owner, owner of an Aviation Insurance company, Insurance Broker, Real estate Broker, Treasure Hunter, Treasure Museum owner, Sign Shop owner, Aircraft and Marine Salvage business and Charter Pilot. Joe Kimbell 65 Hrs. on CH701 (I know, some of you think I should no longer be allowed to call it a 701 since I removed the slats and added VG's) Born 1935 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:05 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel Larry, I'd recommend you put neutral flat gray or lighter on the front top skins because the desert sun will definitely heat up the surfaces you touch. Light gray or whites will reflect a lot of that. On the instrument panel, your eyes will adjust to area color or tones while having to read gages painted mostly in black or electronics panels that use multiple colors for contrast. I'd not add a white instrument panel to these options, but try to find a darker color than what you have to read on the gages. My panel is a light gray and the eyes have to focus each time while having to adjust to the contrast between background black and the surrounding gray. This was not a best choice on my part. Just o.k. for daylight, but when light fades, the eyes work harder to read gages. Better yet, put gage images on several tones of background and check out the difference in ease of reading each at a glance. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Husky Larry J wrote: > > I am getting to the point where I need to think about the color of my > instrument panel. I really like the bright look of a white panel, but > I am also concerned with the glare in the canopy. I would like to > hear what kind of glare problems come from different color interiors, > panels etc. for a 601. I will probably have the front and back skins > painted flat black where the canopy covers them. We have a lot of > sunshine here in the desert! > > Larry Husky > 601XL/Corvair > > *================================= > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:42 AM PST US From: "Roland Smith" Subject: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Thanks for the thread about who you are and the messages about screwing up. I work alone as a nonentity on my 701 kit, mostly by choice, but occasionally feel hopelessly dumb and isolated, especially after measuring, cutting and riveting parts to the limit of my capabilities only to find that they are off. Does it matter? Am I really a hopeless klutz or simply an irremediable obsessive compulsive. I constantly think of remarks by Chris. Something like Just move along, but then he also said something like I'm the builder and should have confidence in my own product. Your posting mini portraits and sharing your glitches gives me comfort. It warms the messages up from ambient temperature to 98.7 degrees. Although I'm an active member of our EAA chapter, it is new and resources for my project are thin, at best. Retired, 75 year-old, former Anesthesiologist, 1200 hour private pilot flying a Cessna 140, 60% on 701 kit; trying to mate rear fuselage, cabin, cabin frame and firewall. Do they really all go together? Roland Smith, Bennington, Vermont ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:19 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel All- Interesting, I was planning on flat black, too for the top of the cowling. I figured that the wing walks would take care of glare to the sides. In 20/20 hindsight, is the glare on a polished airframe a real problem? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel > > Larry, > I'd recommend you put neutral flat gray or lighter on the front top > skins... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:36 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Dave, I'm a 68 year old retired Aircraft Mechanic ( A&P )/ Preflight Inspector/ Quality Department Supervisor/Manager and Repair Station Vendor Auditor all with a major Airline ( 30 years ). I ran my own Quality Systems Consulting business ( part time ) after retiring from the airline so I could pay for another airplane - my 601HD. Started in aviation (5 yrs 5 mos. ) as an engine mechanic in the U.S. Air Force in 1956 at age of 17. Have built 3 homebuilt aircraft ( including my current 601HD ) and still fly and crash R/C airplanes. Still involved in EAA as a volunteer ( Chairman of basic Sheet Metal Workshop at Sun-N-Fun and as Homebuilt Campground Host and Sheet metal Workshop volunteer at OSH. Once held SEL and MEL Instrument Ratings but now fly as a Sport Pilot. You might say aviation has been my life and still is! Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08 AM Subject: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED I'M JUST SITTING HERE AT THE COMPUTER TAKING A BREAK FROM DRILLING HOLES AND GOT TO THINKING ABOUT ALL THE VARIOUS KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BUILDING, WANT TO BUILD, OR ARE FLYING ZAC PLANES. I'M CURIOUS. WHAT DO ALL YOU PEOPLE DO FOR A LIVING? I'M A COMMERCIAL PAINTING CONTRACTOR IN OREGON. OF COURSE YOU CAN DELETE ME FOR ASKING AND MAYBE IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS, BUT THEN THAT'S WHAT THAT KEY IS FOR. THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO KNOW. DAVE IN SALEM DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:28 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Roland, Just get the parts close and duct tape will do the rest.... Seriously, you're definitely not alone or isolated as long as you're a part of this List. My personal opinion - Build it safe and have fun. Those are the only two rules. Everything else is gravy. Your personality will determine if you want a 'show stopper' or if you just want to go flying. One thing is sure - building a homebuilt airplane will test & grade all of your abilities (reading plans, planning ahead, managing money, managing time, handling tools, problem solving, etc). You will either enjoy finding your shortcomings..or not. If not, you probably won't have much fun, because very few of fail to run into a stone wall somewhere along the line. I share your gratitude for the List. It is a great source of confidence. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roland Smith Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:37 AM Subject: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Thanks for the thread about who you are and the messages about screwing up. I work alone as a nonentity on my 701 kit, mostly by choice, but occasionally feel hopelessly dumb and isolated, especially after measuring, cutting and riveting parts to the limit of my capabilities only to find that they are off. Does it matter? Am I really a hopeless klutz or simply an irremediable obsessive compulsive. I constantly think of remarks by Chris. Something like Just move along, but then he also said something like I'm the builder and should have confidence in my own product. Your posting mini portraits and sharing your glitches gives me comfort. It warms the messages up from ambient temperature to 98.7 degrees. Although I'm an active member of our EAA chapter, it is new and resources for my project are thin, at best. Retired, 75 year-old, former Anesthesiologist, 1200 hour private pilot flying a Cessna 140, 60% on 701 kit; trying to mate rear fuselage, cabin, cabin frame and firewall. Do they really all go together? Roland Smith, Bennington, Vermont ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:22 AM PST US From: "Cort Sims" Subject: Zenith-List: Sort of Aircraft Related Retired archaeologist, historian Got the 701 plans about 1 year ago but have not progressed very far. I decided in September to become a full time student in machine technology at a local college in order to learn a few things about working with metal. I am also constructing a storage building to keep all of the all things I took out of the garage to make way for the shop. Once I have these two items taken care of, work on the plane should start in earnest. Well right after I reroof the house.... Do Not Archive Cort Sims, cortsims@verizon.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:46 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel About 20 yrs ago I rode in a polished Swift. Every now and then the sun would hit the top of the wing just right and " BAM",to ME it was brutal but to my friend who owned the plane it was just part of the joy of having a polished Swift. To each his own John ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel All- Interesting, I was planning on flat black, too for the top of the cowling. I figured that the wing walks would take care of glare to the sides. In 20/20 hindsight, is the glare on a polished airframe a real problem? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:25 AM PST US From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Hello Bill and list members. I am sorry to say that I have not had the chance to try out the plane in an icy conditions. We have had mild winter so far. No snow in December and the temps around 40-45F. I hope this may change in January so we can do some frozen lake landings. I have had some time in my Kolb Firestar on a frozen lake, and for those who have tried that kind of runway, the braking action is very poor, but you just have to turn off the engine prior to stopping, no problem. We are trying to negotiate with the people in Greenland to swap names of our countries. No solid conclusions at this time but we are still working on it. Best wishes from Iceland. Johann G. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:36 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sort of Aircraft Related Cort- 1. Building will teach you more than any ivory tower. Figure the price of raw materials to fix up your screw ups as tuition. 2. Watch out for the building projects. I had no choice but to blow most of the year and more money than I have in my project to build my new shop. To add insult to injury, my son helped me move my c-section back to it's building jig and remarked "You should have built a bigger shop". Everything's a trade-off. Good building. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa > full time student in machine technology at a local college in order to > learn > a few things about working with metal. > I am also constructing a storage building ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:41 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Over the last 40 years I was lucky enough to have a job building, testing and modifying some of the coolest air vehicles that Lockheed and Northrop could come up with. I enjoyed it immensly! But nothing came close to the feeling I got when the Zodiac was finished December 17th, 2003 http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday Rick Pitcher CH601HD/3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ruddiman" I'M JUST SITTING HERE AT THE COMPUTER TAKING A BREAK FROM DRILLING HOLES AND GOT TO THINKING ABOUT ALL THE VARIOUS KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BUILDING, WANT TO BUILD, OR ARE FLYING ZAC PLANES. I'M CURIOUS. WHAT DO ALL YOU PEOPLE DO FOR A LIVING? I'M A COMMERCIAL PAINTING CONTRACTOR IN OREGON. OF COURSE YOU CAN DELETE ME FOR ASKING AND MAYBE IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS, BUT THEN THAT'S WHAT THAT KEY IS FOR. THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO KNOW. DAVE IN SALEM DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:16 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Johann- Global warming in two senses of the phrase. Thanks for taking a light statement in the spirit it was intended. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jhann Gestur" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:45 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED > > > Hello Bill and list members. > > I am sorry to say that I have not had the chance to try out the plane in > an icy conditions. We have had mild winter so far. No snow in December and > the temps around 40-45F. I hope this may change in January so we can do > some frozen lake landings. I have had some time in my Kolb Firestar on a > frozen lake, and for those who have tried that kind of runway, the braking > action is very poor, but you just have to turn off the engine prior to > stopping, no problem. > We are trying to negotiate with the people in Greenland to swap names of > our countries. No solid conclusions at this time but we are still working > on it. > > Best wishes from Iceland. > > Johann G. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:53 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glare from instrument panel A lighter flat color would probably work, the angle of the canopy doesn't seem to promote much reflected glare from that area. As far as reflections from the polished airframe are concerned, sunglasses are highly recommended. Those stick-on tinted plastic sunscreens also come in handy. On a cross country flight, I just stick one on the canopy where the reflection shines through. On Dec 31, 2006, at 11:01 AM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > > All- > Interesting, I was planning on flat black, too for the top of > the cowling. I figured that the wing walks would take care of glare > to the sides. > In 20/20 hindsight, is the glare on a polished airframe a real > problem? > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:10 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Zenith-List: Extra Parts I have some leftover parts after finishing my 601HD, no don't start laughing, I bought out another builder and had some duplicates. If anyone is interested e-mail me at tshank@core.com and I'll send you a picture and any other details. All parts are new and never installed some are primered. If nobody in the group is interested it's off to Ebay. By the way all parts are for the 601HD or HDS I don't know if they will fit on an XL. Horizontal stabilizer tail tips , fiberglass fairing and ribs 6E3-1 air deflector for the firewall 6T4-2 Tail rib 6F4-4 Right and left step and fairing 6F14-3 two extrusions for connecting the right and left step Tim Shankland ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) From: "jetboy" Thanks Craig, The postal "newsletter" has allways been a puzzle to me, as it doesnt appear to come from New Mexico or Ontario and subscribing from the other side of the world becomes too difficult. I have relied on the builders section of ZAC site for the updates, however a few things have not been noted there (for which I emailed ZAC directly and got 000) such as; on 701 the reason for the elevator rigging to become tight or loose depending upon aileron position and whether this could be fixed by bending or packing the elevator control horn so the cables attach at the centerline rather than offset on 701 the reason for the change at rev.4 to one only flap extended position of 16 deg and any handling notes changes - revised VFE? - If there is any reference in the newsletter to the above I would appreciate knowing it but as others have mentioned we would have expected important information or back issues to have come with our set of plans or posting on the builders section Thanks again for showing us some of whats available Ralph CH701 in NZ -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84713#84713 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes From: "mcolbeck" Is it a bad idea to leave a hole that was drilled for a rivet. I did the layout but managed to pre drill a hole where I am unable to put the rivet because the 7H2-6 bracket will be sitting partially on it. If it isn't is it possible to move the 7H2-6 Bracket at all to accommodate? First time user of this forum and first time builder. Thanks -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84715#84715 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:56 PM PST US From: BATAR@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Re: Who we are Enlisted in USMC in 1963. Two years later had my first flight in an F-4B as a RIO (i.e., Goose in "Topgun"). I spent the next 18 years flying in the backseat of the Phantom, with 2 years flying in Vietnam, and also qualified as an Air Traffic Control Officer. Bailed out of the Corps after 20, built a post and beam house in the Maine woods using my own trees for lumber, hauling them out with an old Ford tractor. Got an MBA, and did contract work for a General Dynamics shipyard for 17 years. Semper Fi, Al Massey Readfield, Maine ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:50 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes Hello Mark, and welcome to the list. This will be the first of many foibles you will encounter in your 701, and you DO have options. I cannot comment on moving the 7H2-6 bracket since I am a 601 builder and have no idea how critical the placement of that part is, BUT... IF you can move the bracket so your hole has nothing under it, throw a rivet in the hole and no one will ever know it's a mistake. If you CANNOT move the bracket, a little Bondo and paint will cover it up and again, no one but you will ever know. Good Luck, and keep building. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 12/31/2006 5:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark@dogpound.anikast.ca writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mcolbeck" Is it a bad idea to leave a hole that was drilled for a rivet. I did the layout but managed to pre drill a hole where I am unable to put the rivet because the 7H2-6 bracket will be sitting partially on it. If it isn't is it possible to move the 7H2-6 Bracket at all to accommodate? First time user of this forum and first time builder. Thanks -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:49 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes I have seen several references to "filler and no one will know" in situations like this on this list recently. In the real world of certified, manufactured aircraft, any open hole is filled with a rivet if at all possible. The reason? the fatigue strength of the part and assembly is enhanced when the hole is filled - with an expanded rivet shank. Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: Hello Mark, and welcome to the list. This will be the first of many foibles you will encounter in your 701, and you DO have options. I cannot comment on moving the 7H2-6 bracket since I am a 601 builder and have no idea how critical the placement of that part is, BUT... IF you can move the bracket so your hole has nothing under it, throw a rivet in the hole and no one will ever know it's a mistake. If you CANNOT move the bracket, a little Bondo and paint will cover it up and again, no one but you will ever know. Good Luck, and keep building. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 12/31/2006 5:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark@dogpound.anikast.ca writes: Is it a bad idea to leave a hole that was drilled for a rivet. I did the layout but managed to pre drill a hole where I am unable to put the rivet because the 7H2-6 bracket will be sitting partially on it. If it isn't is it possible to move the 7H2-6 Bracket at all to accommodate? First time user of this forum and first time builder. Thanks -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:09 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes Countersink the hole and put a rivet in with a flat head. Re-install the bracket over the top. Life is good. HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mcolbeck Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes Is it a bad idea to leave a hole that was drilled for a rivet. I did the layout but managed to pre drill a hole where I am unable to put the rivet because the 7H2-6 bracket will be sitting partially on it. If it isn't is it possible to move the 7H2-6 Bracket at all to accommodate? First time user of this forum and first time builder. Thanks -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84715#84715 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:37 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: Zenith-List: Need a Chute If anyone have a 1200-pound capacity chute that they want to sell please let me know. The price of a new BSR chute for my 701 is really high and I am looking for a lower priced alternative. Happy New Year, Les ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:45 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Hi Al, Time to join the Marine Air Traffic Control Association. Send a private email and I will give you some particulars. Love to have you aboard. We have a great time. Do Not Archive* * -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:45 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Zenith-List: Build both wings at once? (CH701) I'm working on the right wing skeleton now and was wondering what previous builders thought about building the left wing simultaneously. ( YES, the slats are going on! ) It seems that doing the setup while it's fresh in your mind would be a big efficiency boost, but I'm also afraid of making duplicate mistakes. In this case storage of the incomplete wings will not be a problem. I know this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything in the archives. Thoughts? -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:01 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Build both wings at once? (CH701) Hi John, When I started the wings on my 801 I built any brackets, drilled holes, primed, etc, all the parts I could for both wings. After completing the 1st one and figuring out what goes where I am now building the 2nd one. It will probably take no more than half the time that the other one did. The choice is yours, but if I were to do it again, I would do the same thing. There is a certain learning curve. Once you have that down and have the miscellaneous parts ready it really goes fast. It's also helpful to have the first one sitting there for a reference. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: John Marzulli To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Build both wings at once? (CH701) I'm working on the right wing skeleton now and was wondering what previous builders thought about building the left wing simultaneously. ( YES, the slats are going on! ) It seems that doing the setup while it's fresh in your mind would be a big efficiency boost, but I'm also afraid of making duplicate mistakes. In this case storage of the incomplete wings will not be a problem. I know this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything in the archives. Thoughts? -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED From: chrisoz@bmail.com.au > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED Hello Listers, Happy New Year! I am 42 years old and an Environmental Scientist over here in Australia. Have built 4 Zodiacs up to now, more or less customised, all taildraggers. Currently at work on a XL based tandem taildragger with the cockpit canopy of a Fiat G91 Gina (NOS). Already thinking asbout my next 'stock' HD, as light as possible with a Rotax 914 turbo. Should climb like a homesick angel... Chris Weber ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes From: nyterminat@aol.com Mark, Do not move the location of the 7H2-6 bracket. It's position is critical to mount the stabilizer. As a side note, I am not sure what revision you are working on, the newer plans use .063 instead of .040 for the 7H2-6 brackets. If you have the .040 this would be a good time to upgrade them. Bob Spudis N701ZX/ CH701/912S/96hrs -----Original Message----- From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pop Rivet holes Hello Mark, and welcome to the list. This will be the first of many foibles you will encounter in your 701, and you DO have options. I cannot comment on moving the 7H2-6 bracket since I am a 601 builder and have no idea how critical the placement of that part is, BUT... IF you can move the bracket so your hole has nothing under it, throw a rivet in the hole and no one will ever know it's a mistake. If you CANNOT move the bracket, a little Bondo and paint will cover it up and again, no one but you will ever know. Good Luck, and keep building. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 12/31/2006 5:16:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark@dogpound.anikast.ca writes: Is it a bad idea to leave a hole that was drilled for a rivet. I did the layout but managed to pre drill a hole where I am unable to put the rivet because the 7H2-6 bracket will be sitting partially on it. If it isn't is it possible to move the 7H2-6 Bracket at all to accommodate? First time user of this forum and first time builder. Thanks -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:57 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SORT OF AIRCRAFT RELATED RE: WHO ARE WE? Gday All, Born on a farm in Alberta Canada 1939. Afflicted by very itchy feet so dropped out after two years engineering school and hit the road for many years. Visited 80 countries and worked in 20. Mostly in precision navigation for offshore oil exploration and rig location, using Raydist and Shoran and the very first civilian Sat Nav equipment. Finally settled in Australia when I got sick of living out of a suitcase and could no longer bear not having my own workshop. Now semi-retired, and full-time occupied in my really good workshop, building, modifying, tinkering, testing and flying homebuilt and experimental aircraft. Last night (New Years Eve here already) I camped with some flying friends on an uninhabited airstrip near the beach on the east coast. Went to bed early, then fired up the Rotax at very first light this morning and climbed to meet the first rays of the rising sun at 2800 ft. Maybe the first in Australia except high-flying jet jockeys to greet the sun in 2007.... Flew slowly around some puffy pink clouds, then cut the switches and glided down silently to the grass strip, getting there just as the sun flooded the land. Waaaaa-Hoo! What a way to start the new year!!! JG Long time and still lover of the 701, but right now flying a Savannah with VGs on its30 ft wing, thus the 500 fpm gentle descent at 40 kts (8:1 glide ratio), even with that big 4-blade prop stopped. Some day I want to build a 701 with a new wing that can do even better than that...... Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) From: "chris Sinfield" Hi All I must also chip in and add my 2 cents worth, in respect to my fellow Zenith builder over there in the land of the long white cloud( New Zealand, for all of those not in the know) . It is dificult for us people outside of the USA to send off money in the hope that what you think you are getting is what you really get. I contacted the lady by email and asked for an example ( back issue) of the zenith newsletter so I could evaluate it before sending my money. She could not.. I also asked why she couldn't Email it as an attachment? couldn't do that either. So as a current XL builder what do you get for your money? In the end I just gave up and hoped that the information for any changes would be in the drawings update on the zenith web and word of mouth.. I run the Aussie XL builders newsgroup and its free and sent out via Email. Chris. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84763#84763 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel line supplied with the kit? From: "chris Sinfield" Hi All what is the name of / Type of black fuel line that was supplied with the kits? Chris Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84765#84765 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:52 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line supplied with the kit? I believe it's just standard automotive gasoline hose. You can get it at any auto parts store. On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:05 AM, chris Sinfield wrote: > > > Hi All > what is the name of / Type of black fuel line that was supplied > with the kits? > Chris > Do not archive -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel line supplied with the kit? From: nyterminat@aol.com Chris The fuel line is usually Goodyear auto fuel line, non fuel injected type. -----Original Message----- From: chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au Sent: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:05 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel line supplied with the kit? Hi All what is the name of / Type of black fuel line that was supplied with the kits? Chris Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84765#84765 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:05 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) Chris, If you want some newsletters, email off list at pacificpainting@comcast.net Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Sinfield" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Items from the latest Zenair newsletter (#157) > > > Hi All > I must also chip in and add my 2 cents worth, in respect to my fellow > Zenith builder over there in the land of the long white cloud( New > Zealand, for all of those not in the know) . > > It is dificult for us people outside of the USA to send off money in the > hope that what you think you are getting is what you really get. > > I contacted the lady by email and asked for an example ( back issue) of > the zenith newsletter so I could evaluate it before sending my money. She > could not.. I also asked why she couldn't Email it as an attachment? > couldn't do that either. So as a current XL builder what do you get for > your money? > > In the end I just gave up and hoped that the information for any changes > would be in the drawings update on the zenith web and word of mouth.. > > I run the Aussie XL builders newsgroup and its free and sent out via > Email. > > Chris. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84763#84763 > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:43 PM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: sequence of kits Your sequence really does not matter. This thing will not fly until it aaa aaaaaaalllll is done. I have been three months from finishing for three y ears. I was thinking I was three weeks from taxi tests last week. A very e xperienced new friend of mine told me I was still three months away. That was after I had a breakthrough weekend thanks to his help. I hate to admit it but; I think he is right. =0A =0AMake a plan that works for yo u. Modify it as is needed. Try to do something on the project every day. Remember that someday you will fly this thing. It sure is looking better today; but only because I did something yesterday! I did not get as much done today as I had planned; but I got a lot done. I have plans for tomorr ow as well. I have passed the point that quiting is not an option. I WILL FLY THIS THING SOMEDAY.=0A=0ABrett ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:39 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel line supplied with the kit? From: Bryan Martin (bryanmmartin@comc Provided in kit: Goodyear Fuel Line Hose, 1/4 I.D., SAE 30R7, 257 Degree operating Temperature. If your using a Rotax you will also need: Goodyear Fuel Line Hose, 5/16 I.D., SAE 30R7, 257 Degree operating Temperature. Used on Rotax Engines The 5/16 stuff can be gotten at Wicksaircraft.com part number 15248 The 1/4 stuff, I've ordered extra from Zenith in the past. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.