---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/05/07: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:48 AM - Fus overlaps (secatur) 2. 02:27 AM - Re: Water pump housing Rotax 912S with new "Ring Mount" for CH70 (secatur) 3. 02:30 AM - Re: Fus overlaps (Bryan Martin) 4. 04:33 AM - Re: 701 rudder turnbuckles (Mike Hoffman) 5. 04:59 AM - Re: Key switch info (Aaron Gustafson) 6. 05:08 AM - A little off topic (Clyde Barcus) 7. 05:14 AM - Re: Need help with HD wing tank install (Michel Therrien) 8. 05:21 AM - Re: Need help with HD wing tank install (Bill Steer) 9. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Juan Vega) 10. 07:55 AM - Rib form angles (Ryan Vechinski) 11. 08:11 AM - Re: Wanted (LRM) 12. 09:12 AM - Re: Fus overlaps (Roger Venables) 13. 09:19 AM - Re: Rib form angles (RClaggf4u@AOL.COM) 14. 09:20 AM - Where to put ELT? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 15. 09:40 AM - Re: Rib form angles (LarryMcFarland) 16. 09:53 AM - Jabiru air/fuel mixture control (Was) Sensenich Composite Propeller (T. Graziano) 17. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Craig Payne) 18. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Craig Payne) 19. 10:25 AM - Re: Where to put ELT? () 20. 10:31 AM - Re: A little off topic (ALAN BEYER) 21. 10:41 AM - Re: Where to put ELT? (LarryMcFarland) 22. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (crvsecretary@aol.com) 23. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Craig Payne) 24. 11:24 AM - Re: Where to put ELT? (Craig Payne) 25. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (crvsecretary@aol.com) 26. 12:22 PM - Re: Where to put ELT? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 27. 12:34 PM - Re: A little off topic (Bryan Martin) 28. 12:47 PM - Cleanup on pressure feed pots and remote cups (John Bolding) 29. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (LarryMcFarland) 30. 01:14 PM - Re: A little off topic (LarryMcFarland) 31. 01:30 PM - Re: Where to put ELT? (Tim Juhl) 32. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Where to put ELT? (Carlos Sa) 33. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (crvsecretary@aol.com) 34. 02:12 PM - Re: what to do with my pitot (george may) 35. 03:25 PM - Corvair Engine - 1964 vs 65-69...? (PatrickW) 36. 03:46 PM - Re: Corvair Engine - 1964 vs 65-69...? (LHusky@aol.com) 37. 04:05 PM - Canopy Fitting (Eric Tingey) 38. 04:33 PM - Re: Canopy Fitting (Robin Bellach) 39. 04:33 PM - Re: Fus overlaps (nyterminat@aol.com) 40. 05:37 PM - Re: Canopy Fitting (LarryMcFarland) 41. 06:52 PM - Re: Glider Towing with 601XL (Juan Vega) 42. 07:18 PM - Page on site/belt adjustment (LRM) 43. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Brandon Tucker) 44. 08:56 PM - Re: what to do with my pitot (Brandon Tucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps From: "secatur" When joining the front fus to the rear fus, the plans and the pictorials say the overlap faces forwards(..sides and bottom back of u/c channel) Way back when I was an apprentice airframe mech (Air Canada) we were taught that all overlaps face aft...anybody done it that way??? Steve 701 in Perth WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85582#85582 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Water pump housing Rotax 912S with new "Ring Mount" for CH70 From: "secatur" Did you ever think of telling the manufacturer to FIX IT ? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85584#85584 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:50 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps You're not building a 500 knot airliner, at 90 knots it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which way the overlaps face. On Jan 5, 2007, at 3:47 AM, secatur wrote: > > When joining the front fus to the rear fus, the plans and the > pictorials say the overlap faces forwards(..sides and bottom back > of u/c channel) > Way back when I was an apprentice airframe mech (Air Canada) we > were taught that all overlaps face aft...anybody done it that way??? > > Steve > 701 in Perth WA > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 rudder turnbuckles From: "Mike Hoffman" George, I don't know how I missed it, thank you. Do not arcihve. Mike H Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85590#85590 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:26 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Key switch info Thanks to all for the info. I have a handle on it now. Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:05 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith-List: A little off topic As the hours continue to climb building my 601 XL from plans I can't help but wonder how long it takes the average guy. I think it would be great to know how long it actually took the average builder to build an XL, would those of you that have completed your project please post your build time? Clyde Barcus 601 XL, Corvair Powered Wings, Tail & Engine Complete Working on Fuselage ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:33 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Need help with HD wing tank install When I built it, there was no precise info for the HD. I had installation instructions for the HDS. I moved the second nose rib out to accomodate the fuel tank. (I think it is at 950 mm, but you would need to check as I am writing this from memory). There are pictures of fuel tank installation on my web site (see wing and fuel system pages). There is more information in my construction log where all activities are detailed. Regards, Michel ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ----- Original Message ---- From: Frank Probst Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 11:15:45 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Need help with HD wing tank install I'm building the Hd with L.E.wing tanks from a kit. Zenair never sent me drawings on the installation. I talked to Zenair and I was told they don't remember exactly. They said I need to move a nose rib. Can anyone give me some more detail on how they intalled their L.E. wing tanks? Or even better, does someone have some drawings? I have found lots of info on the hds wing tank install on the net but came up empty for the hd install. Thank you Frank Probst __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:39 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Need help with HD wing tank install Do you have a FAX machine? What's the number? I can FAX you a copy of the drawings they sent me for my installation. Bill Steer Do not archive > > I'm building the Hd with L.E.wing tanks from a kit. Zenair never sent me > drawings on the installation. I talked to Zenair and I was told they > don't remember exactly. They said I need to move a nose rib. > > Can anyone give me some more detail on how they intalled their L.E. wing > tanks? Or even better, does someone have some drawings? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:35 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Ben, The Jabiru as well as some Rotax have an altitude compensating Carburator. hence no mixture knob just Throttle and carb heat. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: "n801bh@netzero.com" >Sent: Jan 4, 2007 10:29 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > >Pardon me if I am getting this wrong, but,,, Am I safe to assume you guys with the Jab set up cannot change the mixture inflight?. >do not archive > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >-- "lgingell" wrote: > >John-I'm jealous mate! I have a wood Sensenich fixed prop! Sounds like you are maybe in quite a climb fine pitch to me. > >Jab owners-Yes, Pete does seem to have some good points in the HomeBuiltHELP DVD. I have a Sensenich 64ZKZ51 (think thats right) in my 3300 powerered XL, anyway, quite a cruise prop. I see 2600 rpm on takeoff, and my EGT's peak in the 1380's at 2650rpm. I'm usually indicating something like 108-110Knots at that RPM, and around 5GPH. >I can go a *lot* faster, but the fuel goes up, and EGT's go down. Its gets awfully rich. I can _just_ about get 3100rpm level (almost) - so that gives you an idea of how my prop is (and I'm glad it is quite a cruise pitch, since I can easily get way over 1000fpm solo - probably closer to 1500 without going too slow). > >Apparently i should be seeing my best results at around 2850rpm. If I could get to this RPM before my fuel burn took a drastic climb (and my EGT's dropped), then I'd pick up quite a bit of range. > >I'm planning on removing my carb, checking the mid-jet, and ordering a smaller one sometime soon, per Pete's 'Carb tuning' discussion. >Cheers, > >..lance >Lake California Airpark (68CA) >http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp >XL/Jab 3300/Sensenich wood prop/Dynon EMS/EFIS/Kitchen sink/etc. > >-------- >Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 >http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85548#85548 > > >=================================== >=================================== >=================================== > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:51 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: Zenith-List: Rib form angles I'm building a 701, and currently making the wing rib forms. The material will be .025 6061. What would be an appropriate angle to sand the edges of the forms, to assure that my flanges come out 90 deg? Is there a formula to use for different thickness material? Ryan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:27 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wanted Hey Joe, Here's what I did. I painted my wings on the aircraft after the rest had been painted, just a little taping. You will need a pressure tank gun. In order to paint upside down, that's all that will work. I bought my from Harbor Freight. Normally I don't buy tools from them because they seem cheap. But I went and looked at this gun and couldn't see a problem. I've used it several times and am extremely happy with it and I have 40+ years painting experience. This morning I got a catalog from HF and they have the gun kit on sale for $39.99, I paid $100. It's catalog 310-B, the part number is 93305-6JPM. It's a High Volume, Low Pressure gun kit. Other benefits of using this type of gun is almost no overspray and the tank holds two quarts. The down side is that it is a bitch to clean up. You have to run a lot of thinner thru the hoses to get all the paint out. Now the paint. Automotive and Aircraft paints are the biggest rip-offs I've ever seen. There is no reason they should cost that much. So I found this site www.paintforcars.com. I ordered and used a gallon of their acrylic enamel with hardener and am again very pleased. It was candy apple red and cost me a whole $65 plus shipping. I also ordered their clear coat, but haven't use it yet. Larry N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Wanted > > Hi Everyone, > > My wings are ready for paint and I was wondering if anyone devised some > sort of contraption that holds the wing up by the spar, rotates it, and > holds it in a horizontal position for a better paint job? Would there be > one for sale? I don't own a welder. Also, I have a few questions for the > group. > > Can the wing lockers be installed after the wing is finished before paint? > I saw one and I like it! > > Does anyone have a set of stobe / position lights for sale? > > I went out and priced PPG epoxy paint and almost had a heart attck! The > jobber said paint is going up in price almost each month. I painted a > Luscombe 6 years ago and the paint was $100 a gallon. I was quoted $250 > for white! Does anyone know of some good deals out there? > > Thanks!!!!!!! > > Joe Scheibinger > backstagelive@gmail.com > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:00 AM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps Steve I am at the same point as you are with my 701, but I read the plans and the pictorials differently : the overlap faces rearwards i.e. the front fuselage Overlaps the rear fuselage Roger 701 in Kenmore, WA (formerly from the colonies) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of secatur Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:48 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps When joining the front fus to the rear fus, the plans and the pictorials say the overlap faces forwards(..sides and bottom back of u/c channel) Way back when I was an apprentice airframe mech (Air Canada) we were taught that all overlaps face aft...anybody done it that way??? Steve 701 in Perth WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85582#85582 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:55 AM PST US From: RClaggf4u@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rib form angles Ryan, I just finished making my wings for a 701and 10 degrees worked best for me. That allowed for the spring back. If I can be of any help you can contact me directly if you like. Wayne rclaggf4u@aol.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:19 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? I am considering where and how to mount the ELT in my 601XL. It need to be mounted fairly robustly to primary structure. I have come up with a concept for mounting it with an .032 bracket in the tail between and above the top longerons. This is shown in a drawing on http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/ELT_bracket.html There is a flattened pattern for this bracket at http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/ELT_bracket_flat.html Note that some dimensions seem a bit odd due to allowances for bend radii. I would appreciate any comments on this concept, or other options for mounting the ELT. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:25 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rib form angles Hi Ryan, The forms should have a 7-degree back angle, regardless of thickness of material which will allow you to bring the flanges around to see them spring back to 90 degrees or near. Minor straightening is usually necessary and crimping adjustments will help as well during the last pass at bending flanges. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Ryan Vechinski wrote: > > > I'm building a 701, and currently making the wing rib forms. The material will be .025 6061. What would be an appropriate angle to sand the edges of the forms, to assure that my flanges come out 90 deg? Is there a formula to use for different thickness material? > > Ryan > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:25 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru air/fuel mixture control (Was) Sensenich Composite Propeller The Jabiru has a Bing Carb with automatic mixture control which is accomplished in the XL by sensing the air pressure of the air in the air filter box going to the Carb/engine. System works fine going up or coming down. The max altitude I have flow to has been 12, 500 ft. Engine purred going up, going straight and level, and going down. Could have finer EGT "tweeking" with manual control, which would be nice, but I consider the auto feature acceptable. Tony Graziano 601XL/Jab 3300A; N493TG; 189 hrs ---------------------------- Time: 07:32:40 PM PST US > From: "n801bh@netzero.com" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > > Pardon me if I am getting this wrong, but,,, Am I safe to assume you guy > s with the Jab set up cannot change the mixture inflight?. > > do not archive > > > Ben Haas > N801BH ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:41 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller >> I got an off-list email response from an HDS / Jab 3300 owner who is reporting the exact numbers that I am seeing in my Corvair. No aerodynamic clean up is showing 120 mph at 2750 rpm and 130 mph at 2850 in the Jabiru, and 120 at 2900 and 130 at 3000 in the Corvair. Both have GPS units installed, and have been through numerous calibration runs. Interesting - that seems to say that the "100 hp" Corvair is doing as well as the "120 hp" Jabiru. And the Jabiru is lighter! Brandon - yours is a 2700cc Corvair, not the 3100cc - right? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:08 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller The Bing also has a choke. Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other reasons. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:36 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? Andy, I'm planning on mounting my ELT in the area directly behind the right seat. There appears to be adequate room there behind the aileron cables. If the mount is well secured to the bottom channel of the rear frame, it will survive a crash better than I will in the left seat. The flap motor should allow room for the strobe driver unit directly behind my left seat. Those sites are fairly accessible by pulling out the seat upholstery and/or through the belly hatch. Unless you are planning on a heavy engine, be careful how far away from the cg you locate equipment or additional structure. Ed Moody II ---- "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote: > I am considering where and how to mount the ELT in my 601XL. It need to be mounted fairly robustly to primary structure. I have come up with a concept for mounting it with an .032 bracket in the tail between and above the top longerons. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:27 AM PST US From: ALAN BEYER Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A little off topic Clyde,=0A=0AI know you wanted XL build time. The time it takes to build de pends on what kind of finished product you want. I built an HDS, and the f actory said you could do it in 400 Hrs. I had over 2700 Hrs. of time in my kit built plane. Someone asked me if I built another one how long would i t take. My answer was: I could spend 5000 Hrs. or I could do it in half th e time it took me.=0A=0AEnjoy every hour of build time,=0A=0AAl From Oshkos h=0A601 HDS (300 Hrs. flight time in 2 years)=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Mes sage ----=0AFrom: Clyde Barcus =0ATo: zenith-list@matr onics.com=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2007 7:07:17 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List : A little off topic=0A=0A=0AAs the hours continue to climb building my 601 XL from plans I can't help but wonder how long it takes the average guy. I think it would be great to know how long it actually took the average buil der to build an XL, would those of you that have completed your project ple ase post your build time?=0A =0A =0AClyde Barcus=0A601 XL, Corvair Powered ===================== ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:40 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? Hi Andy, I placed my ELT on a panel between the rudder cables, riveted to lower longerons. The panel has a hinged piece to open from the bottom for battery replacement. It uses U-nuts to secure the hinged panel and lid. Very accessible and strong. See links, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/eltdwg.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/eltwired.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/eltdoor.gif Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > I am considering where and how to mount the ELT in my 601XL. It need > to be mounted fairly robustly to primary structure. I have come up > with a concept for mounting it with an .032 bracket in the tail > between and above the top longerons. This is shown in a drawing on > > http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/ELT_bracket.html > > There is a flattened pattern for this bracket at > > http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/ELT_bracket_flat.html > > Note that some dimensions seem a bit odd due to allowances for bend radii. > > I would appreciate any comments on this concept, or other options for > mounting the ELT. > > Thanks, > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (reserved) > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > *========================================== > > * ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller From: crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Craig: Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED. It took me a long time to truely understand the Bing CV carb. Virtually every BMW motorcycle in the "R" boxer twin series uses two of them. Aside from starting, idle, and crossover circuits, the heavy lifting in the Bing CV carb is done with a moveable slide that rises up and down by responding to VACUUM in the carb throat. A strong vacuum during WOT operation pulls the slide up allowing a needle attached to the bottom of the slide to pull way out of the main jet and that allows a lot of fuel to mix with the large volume of air going through the carb. Also, the air moving through the venturi is at a Constant Velocity (CV carb, remember?) since the area of the venturi changes with the position of the slide. However, at high altitudes where the air is thinner the slide does not pull up as far due to less vacuum, and the needle does not pull out of the main jet as far. This is your high-altitude mixture control. The authority on these carbs is The Bing Doctor and the bible is the Manual available here: http://www.bingcarburetor.com/manual.html Absolutely the final word on Bing. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) -----Original Message----- From: craig@craigandjean.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller The Bing also has a choke. Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other reasons. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:25 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller I appreciate the information. But what label did you put on the "enrichment circuit" knob ;-) -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hello Craig: Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED. It took me a long time to truely understand the Bing CV carb. Virtually every BMW motorcycle in the "R" boxer twin series uses two of them. Aside from starting, idle, and crossover circuits, the heavy lifting in the Bing CV carb is done with a moveable slide that rises up and down by responding to VACUUM in the carb throat. A strong vacuum during WOT operation pulls the slide up allowing a needle attached to the bottom of the slide to pull way out of the main jet and that allows a lot of fuel to mix with the large volume of air going through the carb. Also, the air moving through the venturi is at a Constant Velocity (CV carb, remember?) since the area of the venturi changes with the position of the slide. However, at high altitudes where the air is thinner the slide does not pull up as far due to less vacuum, and the needle does not pull out of the main jet as far. This is your high-altitude mixture control. The authority on these carbs is The Bing Doctor and the bible is the Manual available here: http://www.bingcarburetor.com/manual.html Absolutely the final word on Bing. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) -----Original Message----- From: craig@craigandjean.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > The Bing also has a choke. Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other reasons. -- Craig _____ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:27 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? Many mount it under the luggage shelf on the right side. Then they just use a whip antenna bent along under the canopy. I'm installing an external antenna and one of the newer 406 MHz ELTs so that it has a better chance of saving my life instead of just being an item to placate the inspector. The cheapest 406 MHz ELT I could find was the Artex ME406. Spruce has them for $865: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/artexme406.php -- Craig ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller From: crvsecretary@aol.com My BMW is SO old (1979) there is no label on it at all !! Come to think of it, there was no label installed from the factory! And, I agree, the LAST thing I would want from the DAR is a hassle over "Enrich WHAT??" Thanks for the laugh. Tracy do not archive -----Original Message----- From: craig@craigandjean.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:57 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller I appreciate the information. But what label did you put on the "enrichment circuit" knob ;-) -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hello Craig: Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED. It took me a long time to truely understand the Bing CV carb. Virtually every BMW motorcycle in the "R" boxer twin series uses two of them. Aside from starting, idle, and crossover circuits, the heavy lifting in the Bing CV carb is done with a moveable slide that rises up and down by responding to VACUUM in the carb throat. A strong vacuum during WOT operation pulls the slide up allowing a needle attached to the bottom of the slide to pull way out of the main jet and that allows a lot of fuel to mix with the large volume of air going through the carb. Also, the air moving through the venturi is at a Constant Velocity (CV carb, remember?) since the area of the venturi changes with the position of the slide. However, at high altitudes where the air is thinner the slide does not pull up as far due to less vacuum, and the needle does not pull out of the main jet as far. This is your high-altitude mixture control. The authority on these carbs is The Bing Doctor and the bible is the Manual available here: http://www.bingcarburetor.com/manual.html Absolutely the final word on Bing. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) -----Original Message----- From: craig@craigandjean.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller The Bing also has a choke. Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other reasons. -- Craig href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:13 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? Ed: Thanks for the idea and the warning. It is a long arm back there. In certified aircraft, you usually find the ELT as far back as they can get away with, which improves the chances of it surviving a crash. I will be using a Corvair installation, which is about as heavy as an O-200, so I expect I'll be OK. The QB/TD kit comes with lighter skins in the rear, which also helps. Of course, battery location is held off until last for final balancing, with the pair of PC-680's I'm planning on weighing about the same a 1 regular aviation battery. Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ----- Original Message ----- From: dredmoody@cox.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Cc: Dr. Andrew Elliott Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where to put ELT? Andy, I'm planning on mounting my ELT in the area directly behind the right seat. There appears to be adequate room there behind the aileron cables. If the mount is well secured to the bottom channel of the rear frame, it will survive a crash better than I will in the left seat. The flap motor should allow room for the strobe driver unit directly behind my left seat. Those sites are fairly accessible by pulling out the seat upholstery and/or through the belly hatch. Unless you are planning on a heavy engine, be careful how far away from the cg you locate equipment or additional structure. Ed Moody II ---- "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote: > I am considering where and how to mount the ELT in my 601XL. It need to be mounted fairly robustly to primary structure. I have come up with a concept for mounting it with an .032 bracket in the tail between and above the top longerons. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:51 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A little off topic It took me just short of 1500 hours to get to the point where it was ready to fly. That time includes the interior finish work but not the exterior finish. The seat upholstery is the only thing I farmed out to someone else. I worked on it part time a couple of hours a day during the week (when I wasn't working out of town) and all day on most of the weekends I had off. On Jan 5, 2007, at 8:07 AM, Clyde Barcus wrote: > As the hours continue to climb building my 601 XL from plans I > can't help but wonder how long it takes the average guy. I think it > would be great to know how long it actually took the average > builder to build an XL, would those of you that have completed your > project please post your build time? > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:08 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Cleanup on pressure feed pots and remote cups Here's how it's done with just a LITTLE thinner, remove the air nozzle, put a pint(or less) of thinner in the container, restrict the atomizing air to zero , raise fluid pressure to 20 or so. TILT the container so that when you pull the trigger only air comes out the fluid nozzle. With the trigger continually pulled, MOMENTARILY allow the tube to pick up a little fluid, it will mix with the air moving thru the hose and gun .After 7-8 cycles of these 1/2 second shots of thinner the hoses will be clean and you can use the rest to squirt on the air nozzle. This trick can also be used on suction equipment except you have to leave on the air nozzle. What happens when you have solid solvent is laminar flow, Moving real fast in the center but slow on the edge where the paint is attached to the hose wall. When you have a mist of solvent moving thru it is very turbulent. Everybody send half of what you save in cleanup thinner, fuel at the airport just went up again and my bill there is overdue. LOW&SLOW John Bolding It's a High Volume, Low Pressure gun kit. Other benefits of using this type of gun is almost no overspray and the tank holds two quarts. The down side is that it is a bitch to clean up. You have to run a lot of thinner thru the hoses to get all the paint out. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:22 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Tracy, I've a Subaru with 2 Bings. The enrichment circuit operates much like a choke and I use it to start the engine and get a smooth idle with it until the engine warms. My EGTs are normal until I descend to pattern with half throttle. The EGTs sometimes climb to set point kicking in the warning, so I pull enrichment and the temps drop about 50 degrees immediately. Not sure what causes the higher EGTs save a denser altitude and a lower fuel feed, but the enrichment circuit I've labeled "choke" tends to affect the engine just like one, throttle open or closed. It would be curious if I've got something wrong here, but the engine is performing at its best the way it's jetted now. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > Hello Craig: > > Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have > a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the > flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel > into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED. > > > Absolutely the final word on Bing. > > Tracy Smith > Naugatuck, CT > 601XL N458XL (reserved) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: craig@craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:15 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > > > The Bing also has a choke. > > Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other > reasons. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:44 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A little off topic Clyde, I built a 601HDS, which would seem a tougher build because of the gear and combined center section-fuselage. It took 5-1/2 years working 2 hours a day and mostly 8 hour weekends. I had the benefit of a good number of forms, half of which, I had to make over to get to plans. Still, one would think 4500 hours went into the build and the painting. This might be closer to the truth than I'd like to admit, but I sure enjoyed the process, even when "Murphy" caused a week or more of "reverse construction". Larry McFarland - 601HDS with Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com Clyde Barcus wrote: > As the hours continue to climb building my 601 XL from plans I can't > help but wonder how long it takes the average guy. I think it would be > great to know how long it actually took the average builder to build > an XL, would those of you that have completed your project please post > your build time? > > > Clyde Barcus > 601 XL, Corvair Powered > Wings, Tail & Engine Complete > Working on Fuselage ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Where to put ELT? From: "Tim Juhl" For many years I was the "go to" guy in Michigan Wing CAP for ELT search. For those of you planning ELT installations I have a few comments. 1.) If you are serious about being located if you go down (and trust me, people do) buy one of the new 406 MHz ELTs. 2.) Pay attention to the antenna location - rigid antennas on the exterior of the airframe frequently get wiped off (especially if the plane ends up on it's back) 406 MHz antennas are about 7 inches long so you might squeeze it under the canopy and give it a little protection. 3.) I've seen a lot of downed aircraft with the tail section severely damaged. I would put the ELT closer to the cockpit in an area where there is a lot of fuselage structure. If the cockpit survives, both you and the ELT have a chance. Tim Do Not Archive -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85731#85731 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:06 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Where to put ELT? Tim, I consider your comments "archivable", so here it goes again... Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada On 05/01/07, Tim Juhl wrote: > > > For many years I was the "go to" guy in Michigan Wing CAP for ELT > search. For those of you planning ELT installations I have a few comments. > > 1.) If you are serious about being located if you go down (and trust me, > people do) buy one of the new 406 MHz ELTs. > 2.) Pay attention to the antenna location - rigid antennas on the > exterior of the airframe frequently get wiped off (especially if the plane > ends up on it's back) 406 MHz antennas are about 7 inches long so you might > squeeze it under the canopy and give it a little protection. > 3.) I've seen a lot of downed aircraft with the tail section severely > damaged. I would put the ELT closer to the cockpit in an area where there > is a lot of fuselage structure. If the cockpit survives, both you and the > ELT have a chance. > > Tim > D* N*t Archive > > -------- > D* N*T ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Working on wings ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller From: crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Larry: I've been reading your posts for a long time and I very much enjoy all that you have contributed to this list. You are a great asset to all the builders that read this list and I appreciate and applaud all your accomplishments. I was not clear in my post - when starting the enrichment circuit works only with the throttle plate closed since the volume of air through the carb is so low at cranking RPM. After the engine starts, the enrichment circuit will continue to add additional fuel to ensure smooth running. My first thought on the high EGT's has to do with the position of the slide during decents. The engine is in a lightly loaded state and there is very little vacuum exposed to the carb slide. The slide is very far down and the needle is effectively blocking the main jet. The idle circuit cannot deliver enough fuel to the engine in this state and the engine is now in a very lean condition. Enriching the mixture kicks your EGTs down in a heartbeat. Thanks again, Larry for all you contribute. Regards, Tracy Smith -----Original Message----- From: larry@macsmachine.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Tracy, I've a Subaru with 2 Bings. The enrichment circuit operates much like a choke and I use it to start the engine and get a smooth idle with it until the engine warms. My EGTs are normal until I descend to pattern with half throttle. The EGTs sometimes climb to set point kicking in the warning, so I pull enrichment and the temps drop about 50 degrees immediately. Not sure what causes the higher EGTs save a denser altitude and a lower fuel feed, but the enrichment circuit I've labeled "choke" tends to affect the engine just like one, throttle open or closed. It would be curious if I've got something wrong here, but the engine is performing at its best the way it's jetted now. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > Hello Craig: > > Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have > a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the > flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel > into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED. > > > Absolutely the final word on Bing. > > Tracy Smith > Naugatuck, CT > 601XL N458XL (reserved) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: craig@craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:15 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > > > The Bing also has a choke. > > Some switch the Bing for an Ellison to gain a mixture control and for other > reasons. > > -- Craig > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:53 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: what to do with my pitot Skip I'm flying with both the Dynon D100 and D180 with the Dynon pitot. I use a split feed to both units for the AOA and Pitot. In addition I installed 2 Static ports on the rear of the fuse T'd along the lower longeron just in front of the stab and split to the two Dynon units. I mounted the Dynon pitot in the center of a round inspection plate. I like the set up very much and would recommend it for your VFR needs. With 40 flight hours so far all is working well. George May 601XL 912s 40 hours >From: "Skip Perry" >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: what to do with my pitot >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 21:33:43 -0500 > >I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point >where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100 >and their website shows an optional pitot that gives angle of attack. My >question is if I am building VFR do should I do it? > >I would welcome any comments from those of you who have actually used this >set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot uses an angle of attack tube >and a pitot tube but no static tube so I suppose I would have to make my >own >static port. The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but will >not >work with the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly >appreciated. > >Skip Perry >601XL (quick-build with all the first run faults:-)) >Fort Myers, Florida > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > _________________________________________________________________ Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Engine - 1964 vs 65-69...? From: "PatrickW" The idea of building my own engine for my 601XL appeals to me, and I am considering the Corvair. The question I have (for those who have actually built or are building a Corvair engine) is: Is there a really good reason to pass up a 1964 year engine, assuming it's 164 CI and has the correct crankshaft...? Through my research, I have been told that 1.7 million Corvair engines were produced. While technically true, that is slightly misleading. According to CORSA (source: http://www.corvair.org/vairproduction.php ), most of those 1.7 million were between 1960-1964. Less than 400,000 were made after 1964, and only 6,000 were made in 1969 (the last year of production). Hence my dilemma. I'm finding 1964 engines out there. I'm having zero luck finding anything newer within a days driving distance. Should I go with a 1964, or wait and keep looking for the less common 1965-69...? Thoughts? - Patrick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85751#85751 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:09 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Engine - 1964 vs 65-69...? There is no reason to pass up a 64. The first one I built was a 64. You just have to make sure that the cylinders and heads are 64 also. This is not a big deal. As long as you have the 8409 crank, your good. I would take a good 64 core any day! Larry Husky Lakeview, Oregon 601XL/ building fuse! ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Fitting From: "Eric Tingey" Group, I put together a report on the method I developed to fit the Canopy to my CH601 HDS. Not sure how others have done it, but I've heard it is a bit of a trial and error process, this will eliminate that. Thanks to Dino Bortolin, for his editing of the report. Eric Tingey CH601 HDS / Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85757#85757 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/canopyfitting2_138.pdf ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:27 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Fitting I'm printing it out now. Thanks for sharing! Robin in AR N601ZV reserved Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Tingey" Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Fitting > > Group, > > I put together a report on the method I developed to fit the Canopy to my > CH601 HDS. Not sure how others have done it, but I've heard it is a bit of > a trial and error process, this will eliminate that. > > Thanks to Dino Bortolin, for his editing of the report. > > Eric Tingey > CH601 HDS / Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85757#85757 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/canopyfitting2_138.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps From: nyterminat@aol.com That is the way that I did it Bob Spudis N701ZX/912S/100hrs do not archive -----Original Message----- From: roger@nwtradingpost.com Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:09 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps Steve I am at the same point as you are with my 701, but I read the plans and the pictorials differently : the overlap faces rearwards i.e. the front fuselage Overlaps the rear fuselage Roger 701 in Kenmore, WA (formerly from the colonies) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of secatur Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:48 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fus overlaps When joining the front fus to the rear fus, the plans and the pictorials say the overlap faces forwards(..sides and bottom back of u/c channel) Way back when I was an apprentice airframe mech (Air Canada) we were taught that all overlaps face aft...anybody done it that way??? Steve 701 in Perth WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85582#85582 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:58 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Fitting Congratulations Eric, You've done in one piece what a lot of people have tried to explain a good number of times with little success. It's certainly not in the guidance provided by ZAC. I'd recommend you forward this to Zenith to help them out. Well done! Larry McFarland do not archive Eric Tingey wrote: > > Group, > > I put together a report on the method I developed to fit the Canopy to my CH601 HDS. Not sure how others have done it, but I've heard it is a bit of a trial and error process, this will eliminate that. > > Thanks to Dino Bortolin, for his editing of the report. > > Eric Tingey > CH601 HDS / Corvair > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:35 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glider Towing with 601XL matrin, check the zodiac site, it has various pictures of 601s towing gliders. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Martin Pohl >Sent: Jan 3, 2007 2:34 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Glider Towing with 601XL > > >Hi folks > >Does anybody know of an XL that has a glider towing winch installed? Are there any plans for this installation? And how about stress/load analysis data? > >There are quite some LSA planes here in Europe that are used for glider towing (e.g. Remos), but I am not sure about the Zodiac XL. > >Cheers from Switzerland >Martin > >-------- >Martin Pohl >Zodiac XL QBK >8645 Jona, Switzerland >www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85225#85225 > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:38 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: Page on site/belt adjustment For those of you who might be interested I put a new page on my site about PSRU belt adjustments. It is www.skyhawg.com/belt.html. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:00 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Craig, All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to clean up our planes. I think the Jab is a better engine, for those who can afford it. I am just pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing an HDS anywhere near 150 mph at 75% cruise. To this point, the best I have heard is 135 mph cruise in an XL. Can anyone do better than that? VR/ Brandon __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:18 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: what to do with my pitot Gig, I put my static port about mid way between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the horizontal stab. It is pretty much centered between the vertical stiffening ribs, and the upper and lower longerons. This is the approximate location of the static port on the T-34c, so I just went with it. My EFIS requires calibrating the airspeed indicator, which I did with GPS. It is tracking very nicely now. disclaimer: You should follow the plans. If you don't, this location worked for me. VR/ Brandon HDS / 46 hours __________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.