---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/08/07: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Flight test data software question. (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 05:40 AM - Dave Clay brake (Tom Flanagan) 3. 06:07 AM - Corvair Electrics (Jaybannist@cs.com) 4. 06:10 AM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Robert Taylor) 5. 06:43 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Juan Vega) 6. 06:43 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Juan Vega) 7. 06:43 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Juan Vega) 8. 06:48 AM - Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition (ashontz) 9. 06:52 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (C Smith) 10. 06:53 AM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Juan Vega) 11. 07:02 AM - Re: Dave Clay brake (Debo Cox) 12. 07:11 AM - Re: Corvair Electrics (Dino Bortolin) 13. 07:13 AM - Re: Corvair Electrics (Dino Bortolin) 14. 07:29 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (lnk@iowatelecom.net) 15. 07:30 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Carlos Sa) 16. 07:50 AM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Gig Giacona) 17. 08:07 AM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (billmileski) 18. 08:31 AM - step drill (john butterfield) 19. 08:42 AM - Re: Corvair Electrics (Brandon Tucker) 20. 08:50 AM - Re: Dave Clay brake (message got truncated) (Debo Cox) 21. 08:57 AM - step drill (john butterfield) 22. 09:02 AM - Re: Dimensions of CH701 (aprazer) 23. 09:12 AM - Re: slats vs no slats + insrance problems ?? (ashontz) 24. 09:15 AM - Re: step drill (Jaybannist@cs.com) 25. 09:18 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Craig Payne) 26. 09:23 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (lgingell) 27. 09:32 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 09:44 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 10:46 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Craig Payne) 30. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Flight test data software question. (Paul Mulwitz) 31. 11:24 AM - Re: Dimensions of CH701 (Milburn Reed) 32. 11:35 AM - Re: Flight test data software question. (Paul Mulwitz) 33. 11:51 AM - Inexpensive basic avionics package (ashontz) 34. 12:58 PM - Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition (Ron Lendon) 35. 01:07 PM - Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition (ashontz) 36. 02:20 PM - Re: step drill (David Downey) 37. 03:09 PM - Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (Paul Mulwitz) 38. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition (Bill Naumuk) 39. 03:29 PM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Tim Juhl) 40. 03:36 PM - Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition (Bill Naumuk) 41. 03:38 PM - Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (Bill Naumuk) 42. 03:50 PM - Re: canopy crack (Ken Lilja) 43. 04:03 PM - Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Bill Naumuk) 44. 04:03 PM - Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (ashontz) 45. 04:09 PM - Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (Ken Lilja) 46. 04:34 PM - My first flight in a 601XL (TxDave) 47. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (Craig Payne) 48. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Proficiency maneuver? (Noel Loveys) 49. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package (Brandon Tucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:49 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current area of interest is data collection. I recently learned that Dynon EFIS/EMS boxes can output a stream of data reflecting the real time flight instrument and engine monitor data. This seems like a wonderful source of data for aircraft performance monitoring and tuning. Alas, I am not aware of any instant gratification software to analyze this data. My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be nice. Being able to select a small subset of all the data would be wonderful. For example, a graph of engine temperature against airspeed and RPM would be lovely. Perhaps a good ultimate goal would be to build a small box to soak up all this data and record it. This might make a nice cheap flight data recorder for experimental aircraft with even more value than the expensive boxes found on airliners. I suppose I could write such software, but I am lazy in my old age. I also recall there are many software people in this list and maybe a group effort is in order. All comments are welcome. Paul XL fuselage - ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:00 AM PST US From: Tom Flanagan Subject: Zenith-List: Dave Clay brake Hi all, I'm building Daves brake but have bought =BC x 2 x 2 instead of 3". Do you this this will severly limit my bending abilities for a 701 . Thanks, Tom "do not archive " ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:41 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Electrics Listers: I know that there are a lot of builders out there that are using Corvair engines, and I also have one on order from William Wynne. I am in the process of developing my overall electrical plan (601XL), but I have zero electrical information on the Corvair engine. Does anyone have a WW-recommended electrical diagram for the Corvair that they would be willing to share? Jay in Dallas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:33 AM PST US From: "Robert Taylor" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? During my flight training this maneuver was repeated often. It is certainly one of the maneuvers in the "slow flight" regime, more commonly known (if allowed to progress) as a power-on stall. This is practiced in order to simulate take off attitude (although the 20 degrees of flap is excessive) and allow the student to recognize the onset of the stall. The power-off stall (reduce power, maintain altitude with increasing stick pressure until the stall occurs) is used to simulate the landing configuration in order to recognize an incipient stall during an approach. In my recent BFR, taken in a Cub, I had to simulate the take off attitude with full power, hold the incipient stall point while doing slow turns in both directions, then progress through the actual stall to demonstrate the recovery. Lots of fun!! We did it several times, just for fun. Bob Taylor Wadsworth, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? Down on the Gulf Coast it's called the "Let's see if Gomer over-controls and stalls before he sees it coming on" manuver. My last BFR if had to fly a C-172 in straight flight and turns as directed by the instructor while keeping the stall horn blowing the whole time. It was fun. Then again we had a couple thousand feet AGL. Ed Do Not Archive Do Not move the yoke abruptly near stall speed ----- Original Message ----- From: MacDonald Doug To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? Yes Larry, the maneuver you described is "Slow Flight". It is part of the Rec and Private flight tests here in Canada as well. We don't typically make 360 deg turns but we do have to make at least one turn. The point is so that you can recognize the flight characteristics of the aircraft near the stall condition Doug MacDonald Just finished my Priv Lic off Canadian Ultralight Instructor CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada nbsp; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ====================== bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -- Date: 1/7/2007 6:29 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:40 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Paul, check with lance gingell, he is using his computer to help adjust his Jabiru after flight by analizing the data. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Jan 8, 2007 7:16 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. > > >I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current >area of interest is data collection. > >I recently learned that Dynon EFIS/EMS boxes can output a stream of >data reflecting the real time flight instrument and engine monitor >data. This seems like a wonderful source of data for aircraft >performance monitoring and tuning. Alas, I am not aware of any >instant gratification software to analyze this data. > >My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can >analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats >this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be >nice. Being able to select a small subset of all the data would be >wonderful. For example, a graph of engine temperature against >airspeed and RPM would be lovely. > >Perhaps a good ultimate goal would be to build a small box to soak up >all this data and record it. This might make a nice cheap flight >data recorder for experimental aircraft with even more value than the >expensive boxes found on airliners. > >I suppose I could write such software, but I am lazy in my old >age. I also recall there are many software people in this list and >maybe a group effort is in order. > >All comments are welcome. > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >- > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:40 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Paul, check with lance gingell, he is using his computer to help adjust his Jabiru after flight by analizing the data. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Jan 8, 2007 7:16 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. > > >I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current >area of interest is data collection. > >I recently learned that Dynon EFIS/EMS boxes can output a stream of >data reflecting the real time flight instrument and engine monitor >data. This seems like a wonderful source of data for aircraft >performance monitoring and tuning. Alas, I am not aware of any >instant gratification software to analyze this data. > >My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can >analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats >this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be >nice. Being able to select a small subset of all the data would be >wonderful. For example, a graph of engine temperature against >airspeed and RPM would be lovely. > >Perhaps a good ultimate goal would be to build a small box to soak up >all this data and record it. This might make a nice cheap flight >data recorder for experimental aircraft with even more value than the >expensive boxes found on airliners. > >I suppose I could write such software, but I am lazy in my old >age. I also recall there are many software people in this list and >maybe a group effort is in order. > >All comments are welcome. > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:41 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Paul, check with lance gingell, he is using his computer to help adjust his Jabiru after flight by analizing the data. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Jan 8, 2007 7:16 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. > > >I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current >area of interest is data collection. > >I recently learned that Dynon EFIS/EMS boxes can output a stream of >data reflecting the real time flight instrument and engine monitor >data. This seems like a wonderful source of data for aircraft >performance monitoring and tuning. Alas, I am not aware of any >instant gratification software to analyze this data. > >My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can >analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats >this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be >nice. Being able to select a small subset of all the data would be >wonderful. For example, a graph of engine temperature against >airspeed and RPM would be lovely. > >Perhaps a good ultimate goal would be to build a small box to soak up >all this data and record it. This might make a nice cheap flight >data recorder for experimental aircraft with even more value than the >expensive boxes found on airliners. > >I suppose I could write such software, but I am lazy in my old >age. I also recall there are many software people in this list and >maybe a group effort is in order. > >All comments are welcome. > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >- > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition From: "ashontz" [quote="brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM"]I don't intend this email to be a supplier debate, thus I will leave out where I got my sheet metal from. My question is, what is the generally accepted condition of aircraft metal that should arrive at your door from an aircraft supplier? I received a sheet of 4' x 12' x .025" 6061, and there are numerous scratches, about 1/4" long on it. I realize that in handling that will happen on smaller pieces, but they didn't need to cut this piece. They are deep enough to get your fingernail in. Normally I would just polish them out, but I will be making my spars out of them. I will be asking my supplier about this, but today is Sunday, and I was just wondering if anyone had something to say about this. Ryan Vechinski > [b] If the scratches are that deep, send it back. Tell them you're not accepting sheets with deep scratches in it. Regardless of whether it's an aircraft supplier or not, they oughta know damaged material is not good. You didn't put an order in for damaged materials, you put an order in for usable material. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86307#86307 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:08 AM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Have you tried Microsoft excel? That would of course require to set up your own table and math. Probably have to write a macro to directly process the data file, other wise enter it by hand, or cut and paste from one file to the other. CS -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current area of interest is data collection. My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be nice. Being able to select a small subset of all the data would be wonderful. For example, a graph of engine temperature against airspeed and RPM would be lovely. Perhaps a good ultimate goal would be to build a small box to soak up all this data and record it. This might make a nice cheap flight data recorder for experimental aircraft with even more value than the expensive boxes found on airliners. I suppose I could write such software, but I am lazy in my old age. I also recall there are many software people in this list and maybe a group effort is in order. All comments are welcome. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:33 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? list, a sign of a proficiant pilot is their capability to "pilot the aircraft". that means knowing how th eplane will react at any given speed. It is recommended by various instructors, AOPA and EAA to practice slow flying skils since, knowing where the stalls occur at any speed could save a life, and improve manauvering skills. Where a majority of accidents occur is pilots landing or taking off and stalling the plane. Once in a while as habit, I take the plane to 2500 ft, and practice stalls, turn about points, slow flight at every flap setting. emergency engine out procedures, etc. The stall speed changes with weight, so I practice with full fuel and at gross weight , and at half weight( half fuel, pilot only). Not doing so on a regualr basis would mean I am short changing myself as a pilot. If you consider it a waste of time, put it on a plaque in your plane, so the passenger knows you think emergency flights skills practiced are a waste of time. Make sure you also have a good life insurance policy as well. Is that safe flying? I don't know. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Jan 8, 2007 12:24 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? > > >Hi Larry, > >Slow flight is a good test of a pilot's skills. I disagree with you >that practicing this while solo is a waste of time. The point is to >learn to control the speed (primarily with trim, but also with >elevator) and altitude (with throttle) while maintaining a given >altitude. The twist of doing a climbing turn or similar stuff is a >standard instrument training exercise but still a fine exercise to >perform solo. The point is to control the flight of the plane, not >to get used to particular throttle settings or control pressures. > >I have flown dual with perhaps several dozen instructors and every >one had me do slow flight in one form or another. This is not limited to BFRs. > >The only problem with doing these things solo is you need to avoid >aluminum clouds, so having a check pilot to look for traffic is a good idea. > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >At 05:49 PM 1/7/2007, you wrote: >>Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an >>instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something >>you only get a feel for at the time it counts. > >- > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:42 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dave Clay brake Hey Tom, Having built one of these myself, and using it to fabricate nearly everything so far on my XL, I can tell you this. Three inch angle would probably be better, but I think you'll be able to do ok with 2". The problem is that you need the brake to be as stiff as possible to bend the longer parts, and in my opinion, 3" would be somewhat stronger for that purpose. When bending shorter parts or angles, I don't think you'll have any problem. You might be able to increase the stiffness by building the brake with the clamping bolts closer together. If there is a problem, it's going to present itself when you try to bend your top and bottom outboard spar angles, and the rear wing channels. I think those are some of the longest parts in the whole project. NOW, having said that, I understand from an email posted a couple of months ago by David Barth (one of the Can-Zac guys) that the top and bottom spar angles can be bent as basically two half-pieces (check the archives for his post - good info), and there's the well-known rear channel splice, so it might not be much of a problem at all. I'd say at the very least, you'll be able to make a good, serviceable brake that will bend all but a few of the longest, most difficult parts. I wouldn't trade mine for nuttin' Just my opinion. Good Luck! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on my fuel tanks after a month-long holiday break. do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:09 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Electrics Jay, Have you looked at Mark Langford's web site? He came up with the idea of using a single switch to swap both the fuel and ignition systems. WW's plane is set up similarly. William recommends an oil pressure switch on one of the fuel pumps, that Mark doesn't have on his plane. The link to Mark's electrical diagram is http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/electrical/index.html Dino Bortolin On 1/8/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > > Listers: > > I know that there are a lot of builders out there that are using Corvair > engines, and I also have one on order from William Wynne. I am in the > process of developing my overall electrical plan (601XL), but I have zero > electrical information on the Corvair engine. Does anyone have a > WW-recommended electrical diagram for the Corvair that they would be willing > to share? > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:45 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Electrics Jay, Have you looked at Mark Langford's web site? He came up with the idea of using a single switch to swap both the fuel and ignition systems. WW's plane is set up similarly. William recommends an oil pressure switch on one of the fuel pumps, that Mark doesn't have on his plane. I'm sure the electrical system will be covered in WW's 601 installation manual when it eventually gets released. The link to Mark's electrical diagram is http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/electrical/index.html Dino On 1/8/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > > Listers: > > I know that there are a lot of builders out there that are using Corvair > engines, and I also have one on order from William Wynne. I am in the > process of developing my overall electrical plan (601XL), but I have zero > electrical information on the Corvair engine. Does anyone have a > WW-recommended electrical diagram for the Corvair that they would be willing > to share? > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. From: lnk@iowatelecom.net > > My question for listers: Does anyone know of software that can > analyze EFIS and or EIS output data? Perhaps a package that eats > this data and spits out appropriate graphs and data tables would be > nice. If you have a laptop available you might want to try a search for data acquisition software or statistical analysis tools. There are many out there geared toward test labs and industrial machine monitoring and most are pricey. One that comes to mind is Minitab which would provide the output analysis but not necessarily the acquisition. Another possibility is to search for automotive performance tuners. I seem to remember seeing one of the Automotive TV shows playing with a laptop that not only plotted data points in real time but was able to adjust parameters on the fly, so to speak. Larry K. 601XL in Iowa -- When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:52 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Paul, Dan Checkoway wrote about that on his website. I tried to find the info, but there is too much stuff and his server response time is bad (today). I suggest you contact him directly. BTW, Dan works in IT, so he may have concocted something to crunch the data produced by the Dynon. Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans Assembling right wing. On 08/01/07, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> > > I am starting to plan for my initial flight testing. The current > area of interest is data collection. > > I recently learned that Dynon EFIS/EMS boxes can output a stream of > data reflecting the real time flight instrument and engine monitor > data. This seems like a wonderful source of data for aircraft > performance monitoring and tuning. Alas, I am not aware of any > instant gratification software to analyze this data. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proficiency maneuver? From: "Gig Giacona" Slow Flight, Minimum Maneuver Speed... It is designed to practice flight in the pattern you need to be able to do it at all possible weights the aircraft can carry. The inability to make the transition from doing this with just the pilot and instructor to doing it with a loaded four seat aircraft has been the cause of MANY accidents among new pilots. larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: > Hi guys, > I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating > proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting > 20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above > stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding > altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with > no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at > 4000 feet. I've had to do this thing several times the last couple of > years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a > C-172. Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an > instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you > only get a feel for at the time it counts. > > Does anyone have the name of this maneuver? > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86320#86320 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proficiency maneuver? From: "billmileski" This is a snip from the private pilot practical test standards, which are used during our practical check rides. Doc is at this link: http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14A.pdf VIII. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS A. TASK: MANEUVERING DURING SLOW FLIGHT (AMEL and AMES) REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM. Objective. To determine that the applicant: 1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to maneuvering during slow flight. 2. Selects an entry altitude that will allow the task to be completed no lower than 3,000 feet (920 meters) AGL. 3. Establishes and maintains an airspeed at which any further increase in angle of attack, increase in load factor, or reduction in power, would result in an immediate stall. 4. Accomplishes coordinated straight-and-level flight, turns, climbs, and descents with landing gear and flap configurations specified by the examiner. 5. Divides attention between airplane control and orientation. 6. Maintains the specified altitude, 100 feet (30 meters); specified heading, 10; airspeed, +10/0 knots and specified angle of bank, 10. Bill Mileski 701/912S/70hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86324#86324 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:38 AM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: step drill hi list __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:05 AM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair Electrics Jay, Join the Corvair list at: http://www.corvaircraft.com/ Click on "Join the e-mail list." Ask the guys there. You will probably receive several CAD electrical system diagrams. They will range from the super simple (Mine) to ridiculously redundant (Dave Morris). All you really need to make it work is starter power and switch power, Ignition power and senders. Beyond that, you can get real creative... VR/ Brandon Tucker HDS / TD / Corvair 46 hours __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:20 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dave Clay brake (message got truncated) FYI - Here's the rest of my message that got cut off. NOW, having said that, I understand from an email posted a couple of months ago by David Barth (one of the Can-Zac guys) that the top and bottom spar angles can be bent as basically two half-pieces (check the archives for his post - good info), and there's the well-known rear channel splice, so it might not be much of a problem at all. I'd say at the very least, you'll be able to make a good, serviceable brake that will bend all but a few of the longest, most difficult parts. I wouldn't trade mine for nuttin' Just my opinion. Good Luck! Debo Cox XL/Corvair Working on my fuel tanks after a month-long holiday break. do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:35 AM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: step drill hi list thanks for the info on the crack, is using a step drill ok to enlarge the holes over the tubes, or is thier a special bit for plastic for that size also. john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 From: "aprazer" I used an 8 x 24 foot open trailer to move my plane and wings from California to Idaho -- 700+/- miles. All it cost was the trailer rental -- which is far cheaper than trying to purchase or build a unit that will not be used more than a couple of times. I crated the wings and tied the fuselage and engine down by strapping the landing gear to the trailer. Encountered some hellacious cross winds across Nevada, but did not sustain any damage. In case you want to know what the green is -- for weather protection the plane was wrapped with plastic, i.e., "Saran Wrap" that is used in the shipping industry. I'll try to attach a photo. Help, can anyone tell me how to attach a JPG photo to this format? Mack, -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86336#86336 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slats vs no slats + insrance problems ?? From: "ashontz" taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Bill, I didn't intend my reply as directly to you. I have tried sending emails directly to this site by typing the address in. They go out but do not get posted.?------- So now, I hit "reply" to a letter and they get posted. I do try to pick a letter which is very close to the subject and I do try to reword the "subject" so it will be approperiate. I do not intend to offend anyone. > I am familiar with the "copies " of the 701 and the 60l. I think it is wrong what that company did to Chris Heintz . > I scratch built and flew a 701 and I would be the first one to admit that a faster cruise speed, less fuel consumption would be great, but at what cost ? and to who? I built a 701, registered it as a 701, and insured it as a 701. > > In my opinion, taking the slats off is a major modification and entering the ralm of "experimental". Yes I think "experimental " is great.? But once ertering that ralm, one should admit it, and register the aircraft as such,(by this I mean, do not call it a 701) and pay the insurance premimums as necessary. Not doing this only makes it harder on others i.e. "scratch building". > ( It could get to the point where Chris H. doesn't want to sell plans or suport the "scratch builder.) It is not fair for anyone to make a major modification to an airplane and than use the "proven safety record" of the original design to save money on insurance etc. Not only that, but the insurance company would most likely refuse to pay a claim if they know the airplane was modified to such an extreme. > > Concerning modification and experimental airplanes. I have said from the begining that I do not like the "bubble canopy" on the 601. (no roll over protection) So, on my 601 (scratch building) I am using a fixed windshield, gullwing doors, with added roll-over bar just forward, and higher than the existing two aluminum tubes just aft of the pilots head. My canopy, no doubt, would be considered "ugly" by some. ( I have the canopy frame, jigged up and ready for welding.) It will look like a cross between the Ch 2000 and an Eurcope. Will I still consider it a 601? Yes. I plan on getting Chris' approval after I have my canopy finished and I can send Chris some pictures and measurements. There are several pictures of 601's with gullwing doors on Zenith's website. > > Happy building > Fritz-- 601XL--90/90--- Corvair > do not archive > --- Can you post some pixs and design notes of your canopy. I've been wanting this mod myself. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86337#86337 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:31 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: step drill John, I used a special drill bit made for drilling acrylics to make 1/8" holes. I drilled the frame and clecoed the bubble to the frame for fit thru these holes. When I removed the bubble, I enlarged the holes with a "Unibit" step drill bit with no problems. From the numerous posts on the subject, I gather that I may have just been lucky. Sooo - GOOD LUCK! Jay in Dallas Do not archive john butterfield wrote: > >hi list >thanks for the info on the crack, is using a step >drill ok to enlarge the holes over the tubes, or is >thier a special bit for plastic for that size also. >john butterfield >601XL, corvair >torrance, ca > >__________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:35 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Mark Langford captures the serial stream from his Grand Rapids EIS and plots it: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/performance/ You can use off-the-shelf software to do this. Use HyperTerminal to capture the data (Start:Programs:Accessories:Communications:HyperTerminal). Generally the data fields are separated by commas or tab characters. Microsoft Excel will directly read either. A few other points: - the version of HyperTerm that comes with some versions of Windows has been buggy. Hilgraeve (its author) offers a free upgrade: http://www.hilgraeve.com/htpe/index.html - the serial output from the Dynon units is at a very high bit rate: 115,200 baud or 11,520 characters per second. There is no particularly good reason for this and it can overrun your capture program. - a lot of laptops generate large quantities of RF interference. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flight test data software question. From: "lgingell" Paul, Give the Flight recorder at http://iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml a try. It will record EIS, EMS,EFIS and GPS data that you can then look at in excel. ..lance -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86343#86343 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:14 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. I have done this sort of thing using Microsoft Works - a low cost version of Excell. Unfortunately, the data produced by Dynon doesn't include commas to separate the fields so there is a need to reformat the data to get it into the spreadsheet. Once in the spreadsheet plotting graphs would be reasonably easy. The other tricky part of this problem is the EFIS and EMS units each produce their own data with time stamps. The data must be combined using the time stamps to get correlation between flight data and engine data. I don't think this is a function easily done on a spreadsheet program. I understand there are "Terminal" programs that can collect the serial data streams and store the characters on disk files. The primary problems seem to be reformatting the data using Dynon's documentation to make it more friendly to interpret and collating the two streams into one. Then a spreadsheet program could be used for plots. Paul XL fuselage At 06:52 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: >Have you tried Microsoft excel? That would of course require to set up your >own table and math. Probably have to write a macro to directly process the >data file, other wise enter it by hand, or cut and paste from one file to >the other. >CS - ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:29 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Hi Larry, Thanks for your comments on data software. I took a look at Minitabs and found it is a standard statistical analysis package. This might be useful for fancy details about how temperature changes over time, but I don't think it is simple enough to do what I was looking for. My idea was to record a flight and use the record to dig out simple information like cruise speeds compared to engine RPM, Stall speeds, best glide speed, rate of climb, and similar things. It is more serving a record keeping function than a data interpretation one. I think the normal way to do this is to have the test pilot interpret all the instruments while flying the test plan and writing the results on a "Test Card". I just want the computer to do the book keeping and save the pilot from the secretarial work. Then all the test pilot needs to do is fly the plane. Thanks again, Paul XL fuselage At 07:28 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: >If you have a laptop available you might want to try a search for data >acquisition software or statistical analysis tools. There are many out >there geared toward test labs and industrial machine monitoring and most >are pricey. One that comes to mind is Minitab which would provide the >output analysis but not necessarily the acquisition. Another possibility >is to search for automotive performance tuners. I seem to remember seeing >one of the Automotive TV shows playing with a laptop that not only plotted >data points in real time but was able to adjust parameters on the fly, so >to speak. >Larry K. >601XL in Iowa - ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:23 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. The Dynon data uses fixed width columns: 000036634895346000411340000000000000000000OAT-0004N/AXXXXXN/AXXXXX-012001300 4100 63006800390060-00442105486129399 The Excel text import "wizard" allows you to specify which columns in the input text goes to which spreadsheet columns. You will automatically start the wizard when you open a text file in Excel. You click and/or drag to move the column dividers. Merging the data by timestamp is easy in a spreadsheet program. Place the timestamps in a common column and then sort all the data on that column. But you don't need to merge the EFIS and EMS data to plot it. Plot the two datasets on the same X/Y plot using the timestamp as the X coordinate. Of course you should make sure the EFIS and EMS clocks are synchronized. Since you will need to capture two serial streams in the cockpit you will need two serial ports on the laptop. Most laptops these days have zero or one. So you will need one or two USB/serial adapters. If the laptop is old enough to have a PCMICA slot there are also PCMCIA serial adapters available from Socket Communications or Quatech. The other complication is that you want an older laptop with a lower clock rate to minimize interference. But you also want a laptop that is fast enough to capture two 115,200 baud serial streams without dropping data. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:54 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flight test data software question. Hi Lance, I am forever in your debt. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can't wait to get the hardware and play with this toy. Thank you very much, Paul XL fuselage At 09:22 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: > >Paul, > >Give the Flight recorder at http://iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml a >try. It will record EIS, EMS,EFIS and GPS data that you can then >look at in excel. > >..lance > >-------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:55 AM PST US From: "Milburn Reed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dimensions of CH701 Ken: Thanks for the reply. Seems like the 582 might work if the gear ratio was such that it would turn a large prop at a low RPM. I notice there are numerous reduction gears available. There are probable persons out there on the list that have such a combination and I would like to hear their opinion. (Consider the 10' pole rule to be disabled). Actually there are possibly persons on the list that want to sell their 582 with such a transmission and large prop so they can put in a 3300 or 912. A low TBO may be ok for me the way I see the situation now. What are we expecting from that engine, 200 or 300 hours ? How is the dependability during that period ? Mil ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:47 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight test data software question. Hi Craig, Thanks for the great information. Please take a look at the free software description at http://iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml which Lance mentioned in his recent post. This looks like a great tool to use along with your wonderful instructions. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 10:45 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: > >The Dynon data uses fixed width columns: > >000036634895346000411340000000000000000000OAT-0004N/AXXXXXN/AXXXXX-012001300 >4100 >63006800390060-00442105486129399 > >The Excel text import "wizard" allows you to specify which columns in the >input text goes to which spreadsheet columns. You will automatically start >the wizard when you open a text file in Excel. You click and/or drag to move >the column dividers. > >Merging the data by timestamp is easy in a spreadsheet program. Place the >timestamps in a common column and then sort all the data on that column. But >you don't need to merge the EFIS and EMS data to plot it. Plot the two >datasets on the same X/Y plot using the timestamp as the X coordinate. > >Of course you should make sure the EFIS and EMS clocks are synchronized. > >Since you will need to capture two serial streams in the cockpit you will >need two serial ports on the laptop. Most laptops these days have zero or >one. So you will need one or two USB/serial adapters. If the laptop is old >enough to have a PCMICA slot there are also PCMCIA serial adapters available >from Socket Communications or Quatech. > >The other complication is that you want an older laptop with a lower clock >rate to minimize interference. But you also want a laptop that is fast >enough to capture two 115,200 baud serial streams without dropping data. > >-- Craig --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Inexpensive basic avionics package From: "ashontz" Has anyone compiled a list on what's needed (bare bones) for a inexpensive avionics package for VFR flight into Mode C territory (altitude encoding altimeter, encoder, NAV/COM, transponder), and maybe an inexpensive gyro and vacuum pump? Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86383#86383 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition From: "Ron Lendon" All good advice so far. I am building an XL and my wing spar webs are .040 and the spar caps are .032, as is the center spar web. Don't know where you might be using the .025 for spar material, unless we are making different airplanes. Zenith told me long ago the only place the grain really matters is in the wing spars. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86389#86389 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition From: "ashontz" Ron Lendon wrote: > All good advice so far. > > I am building an XL and my wing spar webs are .040 and the spar caps are .032, as is the center spar web. Don't know where you might be using the .025 for spar material, unless we are making different airplanes. > > Zenith told me long ago the only place the grain really matters is in the wing spars. The rear wing spar is .025 as is the spars in the stabilizer and the rudder. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86391#86391 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:54 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: step drill step drilling is OK but come in from both faces and then always finish with drum sanding or a home-made flap wheel used wet with 600 grit paper (strips od paper taped to an undersized drill or dowel hi list thanks for the info on the crack, is using a step drill ok to enlarge the holes over the tubes, or is thier a special bit for plastic for that size also. john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca __________________________________________________ Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:44 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inexpensive basic avionics package I don't think you need any gyro instruments or vacuum pressure to drive them to do VFR flying. There is a definitive list in the FARs, but I don't have the specific reference. Besides the transponder, reporting altimeter, and communications radio, you need the required flight instruments and related stuff. These include (as best I can remember) a compass, altimeter, airspeed indicator, tachometer, and fuel gauge. I don't think you are required to have basic engine instruments like oil temperature, oil pressure, etc. but most planes have these anyway. My own choice is to opt for the new-fangled electronic instrument gizmos like the combined EFIS/EMS from Dynon. This unit costs a little more than the bare bones list above but is MUCH less expensive than installing a decent World War 2 style gyro package. Besides giving you the legal minimum equipment it also gives you monitoring and alarming of engine parameters and ample gyros to fly in minimal VFR weather or unanticipated IMC. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 11:48 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: >Has anyone compiled a list on what's needed (bare bones) for a >inexpensive avionics package for VFR flight into Mode C territory >(altitude encoding altimeter, encoder, NAV/COM, transponder), and >maybe an inexpensive gyro and vacuum pump? > >Thanks ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:40 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition .025 SHEET, for skins. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Arrival condition > > All good advice so far. > > I am building an XL and my wing spar webs are .040 and the spar caps are > .032, as is the center spar web. Don't know where you might be using the > .025 for spar material, unless we are making different airplanes. > > Zenith told me long ago the only place the grain really matters is in the > wing spars. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86389#86389 > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proficiency maneuver? From: "Tim Juhl" Typically the maneuver you describe is not done at full power. If you were at minimum speed, standing on the tail and not climbing even tho' you were at full power, you were indeed on the ragged edge of a power on stall. I hope you are familiar with spin recovery as uncoordinated control inputs in such an attitude can quickly snap you on your back and start a spin. To practice flght at MCA, I prefer to have a pilot reduce power and increase backpressure to 1.) hold altitude and 2.) Reduce airspeed to just above the stall. When the airspeed is reduced to minimum, add just enough power to hold altitude. From this point, I ask them to demonstrate shallow turns left and right while holding altitude (usually some power will have to be added.) I also ask them to demonstrate climbs (add power) and descents (reduce power) all while maintaining the target airspeed. I also have them add flaps to the mix. Some pilots are surprised to find that a 172 will still climb (albeit slowly) with 40 of flaps extended. I believe what I've described above will help a pilot develop a feel for how their plane behaves at minimum speed. You can practice such maneuvers in any aircraft.....just do it at a safe altitude. Tim Juhl -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86419#86419 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:38 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet Metal Arrival condition All- I misunderstood what the raw material would be used for. Still, I don't think 1/4" scratches would be any violation of structural integrity, even for a spar. Of course, that depends on how deep the scratches are. To be deeper than a couple of thou, you wouldn't have a scratch but an impact blow. My opinion only, I bow out and leave things to the experts. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Vechinski To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:24 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sheet Metal Arrival condition I understand that things happen, and I'll let my supplier know about the situation, but right now I think I'm just going to keep the sheets. It's too much trouble to send it back, and, like you said, another week of no progress. I'm just worried about my spar. Will I need to polish out ALL evidence of the scratches, or will smoothing them out do? (until I can no longer feel them with my fingernail?) Thanks for everyone's experiences and advice...very much appreciated. Ryan Vechinski ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: naumuk@alltel.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet Metal Arrival condition Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:47:54 -0500 Ryan- 1/4" scratches are nothing- I've had sheets of .025 come in with heel marks such as described by Larry. I was able to work around them for the parts I needed, so I kept the sheets. I suppose by rights I should have returned them, but that would have meant another week of no progress. Your choice.... Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Vechinski To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet Metal Arrival condition I don't intend this email to be a supplier debate, thus I will leave out where I got my sheet metal from. My question is, what is the generally accepted condition of aircraft metal that should arrive at your door from an aircraft supplier? I received a sheet of 4' x 12' x .025" 6061, and there are numerous scratches, about 1/4" long on it. I realize that in handling that will happen on smaller pieces, but they didn't need to cut this piece. They are deep enough to get your fingernail in. Normally I would just polish them out, but I will be making my spars out of them. I will be asking my supplier about this, but today is Sunday, and I was just wondering if anyone had something to say about this. Ryan Vechinski href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List p://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inexpensive basic avionics package Plus, it's a lot lighter and easier to install. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inexpensive basic avionics package > > > I don't think you need any gyro instruments or vacuum pressure to drive > them to do VFR flying. > > There is a definitive list in the FARs, but I don't have the specific > reference. > > Besides the transponder, reporting altimeter, and communications radio, > you need the required flight instruments and related stuff. These include > (as best I can remember) a compass, altimeter, airspeed indicator, > tachometer, and fuel gauge. I don't think you are required to have basic > engine instruments like oil temperature, oil pressure, etc. but most > planes have these anyway. > > My own choice is to opt for the new-fangled electronic instrument gizmos > like the combined EFIS/EMS from Dynon. This unit costs a little more than > the bare bones list above but is MUCH less expensive than installing a > decent World War 2 style gyro package. Besides giving you the legal > minimum equipment it also gives you monitoring and alarming of engine > parameters and ample gyros to fly in minimal VFR weather or unanticipated > IMC. > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > At 11:48 AM 1/8/2007, you wrote: >>Has anyone compiled a list on what's needed (bare bones) for a inexpensive >>avionics package for VFR flight into Mode C territory (altitude encoding >>altimeter, encoder, NAV/COM, transponder), and maybe an inexpensive gyro >>and vacuum pump? >> >>Thanks > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:30 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy crack Poking a soldering iron with a 1/8" round tip through will work. Eliminates a chance of further cracking during stop drilling. Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:00 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? Larry- Sounds like either a Chandelle or an accelerated stall. Either way, a good maneuver to keep you on your toes. Too much back pressure and you go into a spin, kick rudder at the stall point and you snap roll. Sounds like you have a good CFI. Remember, if you don't come out of a BFR with your shirt sticking to your back, you didn't get your money's worth! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver? > > Hi guys, > I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating > proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting > 20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above stall, > while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding altitude > to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with no flaps > to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at 4000 feet. > I've had to do this thing several times the last couple of years to > qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a C-172. > Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an > instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you > only get a feel for at the time it counts. > > Does anyone have the name of this maneuver? > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package From: "ashontz" Thanks for the info. I was thinking more on the lines of the relatively expensive stuff. NAV/COM, alitmeter, encoder, transponder. Looks like that stuff will add up to about $2500 - $3000 easy. A friend of mine was looking into this glass panel http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Enigma/enigma.html. I don't need all this but it looks neat. Doesn't have a NAV/COM transponder etc... but pretty nice. Basically I'm just trying to get some info on cheap basics and wondering if anyone found any outrageous deals. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86425#86425 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:49 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inexpensive basic avionics package From CFR 14 FAR 91.205 (b) /Visual-flight rules (day)./ For VFR flight during the day, the following instruments and equipment are required: (1) Airspeed indicator. (2) Altimeter. (3) Magnetic direction indicator. (4) Tachometer for each engine. (5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system. (6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine. (7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine. (8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine. (9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank. (10) Landing gear position indicator, if the aircraft has a retractable landing gear. Ken Lilja A&P ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: My first flight in a 601XL From: "TxDave" Hey folks, I had the privilege of getting a flight in Alex Roca's kit-built 601XL yesterday. I was thrilled and impressed. Click on this link for photos, videos, and my very unprofessional flight report. http://www.daves601xl.com/Links/photo_updates/photo2/alex_roca/alex_roca.html Dave Clay Temple, TX http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86437#86437 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:04 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package I have the Enigma running on the bench but have not yet installed or flown it. If you want to go even less expensive MGL also has a monochrome display glass panel: the "Ultra Horizon XL" (whew!). I believe Brandon Tucker is flying the Horizon XL. For basic VFR you don't need the optional AHRS box. And if you change your mind you can add it later. As it stands the Enigma can act as your altitude encoder. The XL needs a little add-on box. MGL also has some small 3 inch combo instruments. A Flight 1 plus an E-2 engine monitor gives you your basic instruments. But Chris Smith is having trouble getting a good RPM reading out of these in his "Son of Cleanex" (a Corvair-powered Sonex). I don't believe a NAV radio is required inside the mode C veil, just COM and a transponder. And my usual warning: things are changing very fast in this area. If your plane won't be finished for a while wait. For example the Enigma was just released in December and TruTrak is running teaser ads about their upcoming glass panel: www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:48 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Proficiency maneuver? Been there done that etc. etc. Lots of fun. Now I fly floats and don't think that far out on the envelope is wise... Not without at least 5000' under my precious a$$! It's amazing how much throttle you can give a 172 and still have it descend under control Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:56 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proficiency maneuver? > > > > Typically the maneuver you describe is not done at full > power. If you were at minimum speed, standing on the tail > and not climbing even tho' you were at full power, you were > indeed on the ragged edge of a power on stall. I hope you > are familiar with spin recovery as uncoordinated control > inputs in such an attitude can quickly snap you on your back > and start a spin. > > To practice flght at MCA, I prefer to have a pilot reduce > power and increase backpressure to 1.) hold altitude and 2.) > Reduce airspeed to just above the stall. When the airspeed > is reduced to minimum, add just enough power to hold > altitude. From this point, I ask them to demonstrate shallow > turns left and right while holding altitude (usually some > power will have to be added.) I also ask them to demonstrate > climbs (add power) and descents (reduce power) all while > maintaining the target airspeed. I also have them add > flaps to the mix. Some pilots are surprised to find that a > 172 will still climb (albeit slowly) with 40 of flaps extended. > > I believe what I've described above will help a pilot develop > a feel for how their plane behaves at minimum speed. You can > practice such maneuvers in any aircraft.....just do it at a > safe altitude. > > Tim Juhl > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Working on wings > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86419#86419 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:28 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Inexpensive basic avionics package I am flying with the Stratomaster Ultra. It uses a serial to parallel converter for the encoded altitude signal, which may be the box that Craig refers to. My altitude wass right on with tower's indication today. I have not added the AHRS unit yet, but plan to. I have an ILS radio installed, and can legally fly IFR as soon as I get the gyro operational. Compass, ball, and G-meter all come from this unit as well. I monitor all six cylinders for CHT and EGT, which was good information while breaking in and troubleshooting the corvair, but is not necessary now. The ease of installation, and little required space made it very much worth it. My RPM indication has been right on from day one. I think the E-2 monitors RPM by connecting to the coil for pulse indication in the same way the XL does. If this is the case, I suspect that he may be having problems with alternative methods, as he is building with the advice of William Wynne, who does not like wiring sensors to the ignition system in this manner. He also had the same temperature sender problems that I did. If you do use a Stratomaster, use the senders they sell. Others just don't work right, and the ones they sell are actually pretty cheap. A nav is not required under the veil. The Stratomaster line of instruments is the cheapest way you can get into EFIS systems. So far, mine is working fine. I am having RDAC failures here and there, possibly due to a ground issue that I have to troubleshoot. They clear fairly quickly. Overall, I am pleased with the quality of the unit. I will report back when I get the gyro working. Matt at sportflyingshop.com is very helpful: http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/stratomaster.html VR/ Brandon 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 48 hours __________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.