---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/16/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:01 AM - Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) (TxDave) 2. 01:07 AM - Re: Metal to Metal Adehisive (alex_001) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips (Bryan Martin) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) (Ryan Vechinski) 5. 07:26 AM - Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) (Gig Giacona) 6. 07:29 AM - Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) (Jaybannist@cs.com) 7. 08:03 AM - Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) () 8. 09:04 AM - 601XL flap rib control plate (lwinger) 9. 09:43 AM - Polishing and Rivet Heads (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 10. 10:38 AM - Re: 601XL flap rib control plate (Paul Mulwitz) 11. 11:20 AM - Re: 601XL flap rib control plate (Larry Winger) 12. 12:01 PM - Re: Polishing and Rivet Heads (ronlee) 13. 12:54 PM - 801 with VGs and no slats!!! (Keystone Engineering LLC) 14. 01:52 PM - Re: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! (JG) 15. 02:06 PM - Plane for sale.doc (DICK WILBERS) 16. 02:06 PM - 601HDS for sale (DICK WILBERS) 17. 02:51 PM - Re: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! (Keystone Engineering LLC) 18. 04:33 PM - Re: Wheel pants for sale (Southern Reflections) 19. 05:47 PM - Re: Polishing and Rivet Heads (Tim Shankland) 20. 06:50 PM - Re: Polishing and Rivet Heads (Phil Maxson) 21. 06:50 PM - Re: 601XL flap rib control plate () 22. 07:06 PM - Cheap beading tool (Dave and Pam Fisher) 23. 10:22 PM - Re: 601XL flap rib control plate (xl) 24. 11:53 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) From: "TxDave" You were doing so well right up 'til... Thanks for the great advice, Kevin. do not archive Dave Clay Temple, TX skinning my right wing http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87965#87965 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Metal to Metal Adehisive From: "alex_001" Hello, we have build many racecar chassis (years ago when the used to be alloy or alloy honeycomb) and now in Carbon and we have used Scotch Weld 9323 B/A with big sucsess also no problem with aging as planes get far older then race cars. This glue also is of good strenght if you have to fill up small gaps. also very good in high temp (just incase you would like to fly very fast :D :D ) we made several tests on torsion stiffnes and this product had the best results. when cured off completly rivets have more or less no need anymore. very important is clean surface and achted before (scotchbrite etc) happy bonding Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87967#87967 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:25 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips I'll second that. It takes quite a bit of work to get the 6061 to shine up well but once you get it there, it holds up pretty well. At least in my experience with my plane hangared in Michigan. On Jan 15, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > > Pat- > I think the hassle is more in getting what you want to begin > with- maintanance should be no big deal. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:28 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips > > >> >> This is great information. >> >> We see a lot of polished planes at Oshkosh every year, and they do >> look nice. I often wonder how good they look during the rest of >> the year. >> >> Maybe you'll be able to tell us... :D >> >> - PatrickW -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:57 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) What, you can't use a map box right in front of you?? Ok, I'm sorry. I'm sure you'll figure something out. Just to add to your list. I found pictures of my possible instruments and gauges on the internet, the n used a picture program to print them out actual size. I made an actual size panel out of poster board and put it on my wall, then taped my instruments on that. I'm only finished with the tail, and starting on the wings, so I'll have pl enty of time to stare at my "instrument panel" and see how I like it. > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:20:52 -0500> From: kkinney@fuse.net> To: zenith -list@matronics.com> Subject: Zenith-List: How to lay out your panel (parti y@fuse.net>> > > Here's the procedure I've used for laying out my panel.> > 1. Create actual sized templates of all your instruments.> 2. Create a bro wn paper mock-up of your panel.> 3. Move the templates around on the paper until you get a good idea of where you like the instruments.> 4. Tape your paper mock-up on your actual panel and practice reaching for instruments an d switches. You'll probably want to tweak things a bit> 5. Make a .016" moc kup of your panel. Use a center punch to transfer the corner relief holes & screws of your templates to the aluminum mock-up.> 6. Cut out the mock-up templates and fit your instruments to it. At this point, you may want to do a comprehensive bench test of your equipment. Your harness wires can also be cut to length now. (Instrument wires should be left to length until you get them into the actual cockpit.)> 7. When you're comfortable with how thi ngs look, securely tape the .016" mock-up to your actual panel. The mockup should be left in place while cutting so that you do not accidentally scar the surface of your actual panel.> 8. Cut a few of the larger parts out of your panel and discover your EFIS doesn't fit the cutout. However the map b ox fits perfectly in front of the pilot.> 9. Discover you taped the .016" t emplate backward.> 10. Use colorful language until red in the face and hoar se in the throat.> 11. Type up your method.> > As soon as I discover how to fix this, I'll add to the instructions. I'm thinking either moving the EFI S 3/4" to the left or creating a subpanel. That is once I stop using colorf ul language....> > Regards,> kk> > --> Non-Parent - I don't see how you can raise children & stay sane.> Parent - You don't. You pick one and go with =============> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) From: "Gig Giacona" The only thing missing from the above is to sit in the aircraft with cushions of some type in place and strap yourself in and make sure you can reach what needs to be reached in flight. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88015#88015 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:32 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) I have designed the layout of my instrument panel on AutoCAD. I know I have been through 20 or 30 iterations. Even after I decided on what instruments I would have and basically where they would go, I still find it necessary to be constantly tweeking it. I have made a full size print-out and taped it to the panel to test the ergonomics. I am about 75% complete with construction, but not completely done with the wiring diagram, so I am confident that I will still need to make a few changes. Just hope they are not major ones. I will probably wind up spending more time on planning than on construction by about 10 times. I am advising that you'd BETTER believe in evolution!(at least when it comes to instrument panels) This process also brings to mind the old saw among structural engineers that it is much better to use a pencil eraser than a cutting torch. Having delirious fun! Jay in Dallas Do not archive Ryan Vechinski wrote: >What, you can't use a map box right in front of you?? Ok, I'm sorry. I'm sure you'll figure something out. > >Just to add to your list. > >I found pictures of my possible instruments and gauges on the internet, then used a picture program to print them out actual size. >I made an actual size panel out of poster board and put it on my wall, then taped my instruments on that. >I'm only finished with the tail, and starting on the wings, so I'll have plenty of time to stare at my "instrument panel" and see how I like it. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:25 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How to lay out your panel (partial instructions) I used some scrap .016"aluminum to make templates that are the size of the largest part of each instrument..... either the face plate or the chasis of the instrument, whichever is bigger...... and allowed space for esthetics and air circulation between instruments as I moved them around the panel. I drew the profiles and center holes on with Sharpie. Then I'd remember something that I had left out or didn't need to be there etc. I'm curently on the third version of Sharpie drawings and I'm not about to cut the panel yet. I have however made a doubler out of .050 that fits behind the panel (as the pilot views it). The doubler includes the bottom flange but not the edge or top flanges. The factory supplied panel just seemd too flimsy to me. If I find that the doubler is overkill, I can cut as many lightening holes in it as I see fit later when the instruments are installed and wired. It may be a long long time before I rivet the panel in place. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL/Jabiru/flap linkage ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL flap rib control plate From: "lwinger" Before going further, note that I understand that plans always trump the photo guide. What do you do when even the plans are unclear? I go the the list or call ZAC. To eliminate my confusion on the size and orientation of the hole (or slotted hole??) on the inboard flap rib (6W1-1), not to mention the orientation confusion between plans and the photo guide, I indeed called ZAC today. Roger said that actually all that was needed was a 1/4" hole in the rib and control plate, but exact placement was the issue for some builders. His recommendation was to wait until final placement to drill the rib and install the plate. That's now my plan. For what it's worth. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Tail done / Working on flaps Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88037#88037 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:05 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Gang: About to begin polishing the bottom of the fuselage with Nuvite F9, and I have a question about treating the rivet heads. It seems that many of my rivet heads have a very slight edge to them in the middle where the dome shape meets the mandrel hole. Can't hardly see them, but can feel them with a finger. I think these edges will tend wear out the compounding pads prematurely. I was considering touching all of them lightly with ultrafine Scotchbrite on a 2" mandrel in the angle grinder to remove this edge. I was wondering what other people who are polishing have done, if anything, to prep their rivet heads for polishing. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:08 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap rib control plate Hi Larry, Thanks for posting the information on flap control. I am just getting ready to install the flap control motor and associated stuff in the fuselage. My take on your report is that the actual need for a slot as opposed to a simple hole in the flap rib depends on how closely the flap control torque tube is located compared to the piano hinge on the flap itself. The further the location of the torque tube from the hinge in vertical space, the more you need a slot versus a hole in the flap rib. It seems that the slot doesn't do any harm compared to the simple hole. It allows variation in the location of the torque tube in the fuselage. This is good since the torque tube is located before the wing is mounted on the fuselage. Also, the actual flap position on the wing is delayed until final assembly according to the instructions. I suppose all this works itself out as you reach final assembly. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 09:02 AM 1/16/2007, you wrote: >To eliminate my confusion on the size and orientation of the hole >(or slotted hole??) on the inboard flap rib (6W1-1), not to mention >the orientation confusion between plans and the photo guide, I >indeed called ZAC today. > >Roger said that actually all that was needed was a 1/4" hole in the >rib and control plate, but exact placement was the issue for some >builders. His recommendation was to wait until final placement to >drill the rib and install the plate. That's now my plan. - ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:39 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap rib control plate Paul, You are probably correct. As one who is quite a few steps behind you, I don't have the hands-on experience to comment. Just thought the list would like to hear the latest from Mexico, MO. Larry > My take on your report is that the > actual need for a slot as opposed to a simple hole in the flap rib > depends on how closely the flap control torque tube is located > compared to the piano hinge on the flap itself. The further the > location of the torque tube from the hinge in vertical space, the > more you need a slot versus a hole in the flap rib. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Polishing and Rivet Heads From: "ronlee" I had the same situation, a little sharp ring at the top of the rivet heads. I punched a hole in an old credit card (to protect the surrounding metal), placed it over the rivet and ran fine sandpaper over the rivet head. This fixes the problem quickly. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88081#88081 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:59 PM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! I finally got a chance to try my 801 with VGs on and the slats off. I was unimpressed. I was light with 40 gallons fuel, one 240 lb pilot and 30 lbs of baggage. I made the VGs out of 1/2"x1/2"x 1/16" angle cut in 1" lengths with the front cut at at 45 degree angle. I set them at 4" apart for the inboard 9' and at 2" apart for the outboard 3'. I set them at a 45 degree angle to the leading edge and they are 10% of the chord back from the leading edge. The 801 will stall without slats. The clean stall was at 55 mph and the dirty stall was at 43. With slats it does not stall. I use 43 clean and 35 dirty. I showed a 4 mph increase in cruise speed. It went from 103 mph to 107 mph at 4000' density altitude. This is at 75% power from my O-360 which I define as 10.5 GPH with normal lean condition. I was expecting quite a bit more For you guys that have done this in a 701 do you have any comments or thoughts? Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, AK 279 hrs ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:42 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! Yeh, Bill, I would have expected a fair bit more as well... Only real difference I can see is that 45* angle - we use 15*. Also, we find it better at 8-9% chord for that very full rounded leading edge. If you're interested in further experimenting, I'd like to send you a set of Feathers VGs at no cost. Just send me your mailing address and they're away. JG ----- Original Message ----- From: Keystone Engineering LLC To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! I finally got a chance to try my 801 with VGs on and the slats off. I was unimpressed. I was light with 40 gallons fuel, one 240 lb pilot and 30 lbs of baggage. I made the VGs out of 1/2"x1/2"x 1/16" angle cut in 1" lengths with the front cut at at 45 degree angle. I set them at 4" apart for the inboard 9' and at 2" apart for the outboard 3'. I set them at a 45 degree angle to the leading edge and they are 10% of the chord back from the leading edge. The 801 will stall without slats. The clean stall was at 55 mph and the dirty stall was at 43. With slats it does not stall. I use 43 clean and 35 dirty. I showed a 4 mph increase in cruise speed. It went from 103 mph to 107 mph at 4000' density altitude. This is at 75% power from my O-360 which I define as 10.5 GPH with normal lean condition. I was expecting quite a bit more For you guys that have done this in a 701 do you have any comments or thoughts? Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, AK 279 hrs ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:34 PM PST US From: "DICK WILBERS" Subject: Zenith-List: Plane for sale.doc Dear List, 4 back surgeries, both knees replaced and Father Time have made it more difficult for me to enter and exit my 601 HDS, at least gracefully. Therefore, I am going to have to put it up for sale and get an airplane that my wife and I can enter and exit easier. The airplane has always been hangared in Winter Haven, FL. The airplane is a kit built 601HDS with the front hinged canopy and wheel fairings. It has 37 hours on the engine and air frame. It has a Stratus Subaru EA-81 with the Ram performance conversion of the heads, valves, valve guides and springs. It purrs like a kitten. The prop is a 3 blade carbon fiber ground adjustable The radiator has Larry Mac louvers and fiber glass intake scoop. Engine coolant temp is a non-issue. The panel is a fairly simple affair with a tach, airspeed indicator, altimeter, VSI, I have the conventional "Y" stick. It has a Microair 760 communication radio with intercom, and it has a PTT on each "Y" member. The engine instruments include water temp, oil pressure and oil temp, voltmeter, boost pump pressure and a hobbs meter. It has not been painted yet, but the local guy who does the Europa airplanes is ready and willing. Anyone who is interested may contact me off list at rwilbers@tampabay.rr.com or call me in Florida at 863-666-3265. We can discus prices, availability, etc. I will try to include a couple of pictures. Dick Wilbers ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:34 PM PST US From: "DICK WILBERS" Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS for sale The Electronic Wizard whupped me again. Enclosed are the pictures. 100_0654.JPG 100_0655.JPG 100_1582.JPG ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:57 PM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! JG Thank you for your kind offer! William Wilcox PO Box 3233 Valdez, Ak 99686 USA I will try them at 10 degrees at 8% of the chord and see if that speeds the plane up. Maybe 45 degrees is too much. I used 45 degrees on the ones I put on the bottom of the elevator and they helped a lot. Maybe I should take some angle off them also. Bill Subject: Re: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! From: JG (vgstol@bigpond.net.au) Date: Tue Jan 16 - 1:52 PM Yeh, Bill, I would have expected a fair bit more as well... Only real difference I can see is that 45* angle - we use 15*. Also, we find it better at 8-9% chord for that very full rounded leading edge. If you're interested in further experimenting, I'd like to send you a set of Feathers VGs at no cost. Just send me your mailing address and they're away. JG ----- Original Message ----- From: Keystone Engineering LLC To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: 801 with VGs and no slats!!! I finally got a chance to try my 801 with VGs on and the slats off. I was unimpressed. I was light with 40 gallons fuel, one 240 lb pilot and 30 lbs of baggage. I made the VGs out of 1/2"x1/2"x 1/16" angle cut in 1" lengths with the front cut at 45 degree angle. I set them at 4" apart for the inboard 9' and at 2" apart for the outboard 3'. I set them at a 45 degree angle to the leading edge and they are 10% of the chord back from the leading edge. The 801 will stall without slats. The clean stall was at 55 mph and the dirty stall was at 43. With slats it does not stall. I use 43 clean and 35 dirty. I showed a 4 mph increase in cruise speed. It went from 103 mph to 107 mph at 4000' density altitude. This is at 75% power from my O-360 which I define as 10.5 GPH with normal lean condition. I was expecting quite a bit more For you guys that have done this in a 701 do you have any comments or thoughts? Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, AK 279 hrs ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:34 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel pants for sale call me 1-772-3430033 joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel pants for sale > > I have a set of the original style wheel pants for an XL for sale. Never > installed, hardware included, still wrapped in the paper. $200. Contact > me off list. > > Tim > > Do not archive > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87914#87914 > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:31 PM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Andy, I did the whole plane, rivets and all without any treatment of the rivet heads. The is more of a problem if you have a rivet that isn't seated well then a few strands of the wool will get under it. 601HD polished and still looking good about a year, although I should wash it. Tim Shankland Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > Gang: > > About to begin polishing the bottom of the fuselage with Nuvite F9, > and I have a question about treating the rivet heads. It seems that > many of my rivet heads have a very slight edge to them in the middle > where the dome shape meets the mandrel hole. Can't hardly see them, > but can feel them with a finger. I think these edges will tend wear > out the compounding pads prematurely. > > I was considering touching all of them lightly with ultrafine > Scotchbrite on a 2" mandrel in the angle grinder to remove this edge. > I was wondering what other people who are polishing have done, if > anything, to prep their rivet heads for polishing. > > Thanks, > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (reserved) > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:41 PM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Two comments about Nuvite polishing: 1. I don't recommend using the courser grades of Nuvite. You would be bett er off starting with a wet sand of 1000 grit sand paper and then wet sandin g with 1500 grit sand paper. After that go to Nuvite C and S. 2. Don't worry a thing about your rivet heads. The rivets and the area rig ht beside them will polish to a shine much quicker than the unsupported are as of the skin between the rivets. I didn't even put Nuvite on the rivets and they are the shiniest part of the plane. Pictures can be found at http://flycorvair.com/snf2006.html (middle of pag e) and video here: http://zenvair.com/ Also, middle of the page.Phil Maxso n601XL/CorvairNorthwest New Jersey From: a.s.elliott@cox.net Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Gang: About to begin polishing the bottom of the fuselage with Nuvite F9 <> _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song.- Get a customized station.- Try MSN Radio powe red by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:42 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap rib control plate The most important aspect would be to get both flaps set at the same angle and that there is no binding as the flaps are deployed. If you have any variation from side to side then the actual hole in the drive plate and rib will be slightly different. The distance between the flap drive pin and the flap hinge pin may vary during deployment and thus the need for a slotted hole to avoid bending the rib. Wait until the wings are mounted and do a few cyclings of the drive pins for the actual measurements with the flaps inserted close to the final position you will be able to visualize where the hole (slot) needs to go. Gary ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:05 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: Cheap beading tool At 12:58 AM 1/16/2007, you wrote: >How do you make a beaded line in a tool designed for flares and double flares? Hi David, Just clamp the tube with about 1/8 inch protruding. Place the double flare die in the end of the tube, and then squeeze it until you've formed the size bead you want. Experiment a bit with the amount of tube protruding and the amount of squeeze and you'll get perfect rounded raised beads like those from a beading tool - just what you need to help seal and retain the fuel hose on the tube. I also used the tool to make an enlarged end on my fuel vent tubes to capture a disc of aluminum window screen to keep bugs out of the vents. Have Fun! Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental ( Nebraska farmer, good with duct tape! ) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:06 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL flap rib control plate Install the flaps for resale, then don't wear them out. I've landed at Vaughan more than once, no flaps, (http://www.airnav.com/airport/WN13) without consequences and turned around about halfway down the field. Last time, my passenger, a first time 601XL passenger said, 'if you didn't use flaps now, when would you.' I try to land on the numbers at BFI, it helps. Keep in mind, the Zodiac is a light plane, mine is 715 pounds empty. Flaps in crosswinds weathervane the plane into the gusts. But, then what the f*%& do I know. Yeah, I had a bad day......... I should go fly. Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL, 419 hours, polished (sort of), not a show plane Jabiru 3300, Sensenich wood prop 64x49 do not archive P.S. The above advice does not apply if your airstrip is < 1800 ft. I don't have experience with that scenario. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:30 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hello Paul, Yes, I am aware, but that was not the meaning of my post... What I have noted in many years of flying, that most pilots, want to get more speed of the airplane they fly. even if its a 55 mph ultralight or a match 2 jet... Speed is only important in long XCountries or races, I think. What I want to say is that once you have an airplane, enjoy it as is, probably a little "cleaning" to improve range, On the other side, to get a few mph of any given airframe, you need lots more power, gasoline and $ not worth it in my case. Well I think not matters, Lets stop this matter. I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies. Saludos Gary Gower Please Do not archive. Paul Mulwitz wrote: Hi Gary, Perhaps you are not aware, but we have a new set of rules for pilots and planes from the FAA in the United States. For those of us too old and decrepit to want to fight for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate, there is the Sport Pilot restriction which allows us to fly any plane that meets the Light Sport Aircraft limits without a medical certificate. The short version of all of this is we can fly a 701 or 601 (most models, possibly not the HDS) without fighting for the medical certificate. Higher performance planes like a Verieze don't qualify under this new rule. The essence of the Sport Pilot restriction is we must limit our flying to VFR day operations. Personally, I like those limits anyway. I might go get an instrument rating if I could do it without the medical certificate, but that will have to wait a few years for the FAA to decide they don't like third class medical certificates any more. That may happen and it may not. So, there is actually some merit for guys like me to try to squeeze performance out of my Zodiac XL that I just can't use if it comes from a heavier or naturally faster plane. Regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 12:10 PM 1/11/2007, you wrote: Respectfully, What for? Want to cruise faster, same engine? buy a Varieze or with a 0200 a Long Eze... Lets enjoy the flight, once the wheels are off the ground :-) Saludos Gary Gower Hope to finish my 601XL soon. Now cruising at 85 - 90 in the 701 912S at 11,500 ft ASL @ 5100 rpm Do not archive. Brandon Tucker wrote: Craig, All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to clean up our planes. I think the Jab is a better engine, for those who can afford it. I am just pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing an HDS --------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.