---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/17/07: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 03:46 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Juan Vega) 3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller () 4. 07:04 AM - Riveting Forward Fuselage (John and Kim Lumkes) 5. 07:14 AM - Time to buy the 912S (george.mueller@aurora.org) 6. 07:25 AM - Re: Riveting Forward Fuselage (george may) 7. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 09:39 AM - Time to buy the 912S (Stanley Challgren) 9. 10:30 AM - Re:Time to buy the 912S (George Race) 10. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Terry Turnquist) 11. 11:03 AM - Rivet sizing and part numbers (pilot4pay) 12. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (T. Graziano) 13. 01:15 PM - Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers (Carlos Sa) 14. 01:30 PM - Re: Time to buy the 912S (george may) 15. 02:24 PM - Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers (Bryan Martin) 16. 02:48 PM - Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers (David Downey) 17. 02:48 PM - Re: Time to buy the 912S (Trevor Page) 18. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips (Bill Naumuk) 19. 03:24 PM - Re: Polishing and Rivet Heads (Bill Naumuk) 20. 03:39 PM - SP/XL (Bill Naumuk) 21. 03:49 PM - Re: SP/XL (Bill Naumuk) 22. 03:49 PM - Re: Time to buy the 912S (Dave Ruddiman) 23. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Juan Vega) 25. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (John Bolding) 26. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (ZodieRocket) 27. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller (Al Young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:03 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Gary, Let me post one more comment on this subject. First let me say I agree with you completely about enjoying flight. I don't think a small change in speed is noticeable when you are flying. I also agree that getting more speed means burning more fuel. The other part of this issue is the desire to get more performance from your plane. I see this as an engineering challenge. This is also part of the Experimental Airplane spirit. It seems like a wonderful opportunity to create great airplanes. More likely it is an opportunity to try things that don't really help. Still, the effort is its own reward. More performance can have many meanings. For a cross country cruiser this might mean more speed or range. For a Bush Plane it might mean being able to take off or land on a shorter field. For any pilot in any situation the ability to land exactly where you want to land and take off and clear the trees at the other end of the field are critical abilities. Any and all of these qualities are reasonable targets for airplane experimenters. I feel I have already gained a great deal just thinking about these things. I have built a LRI which should improve my ability to land my plane in minimum distance. I really don't know where all this experimentation might end. It is all fun. Best regards, Paul > I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:57 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Seniores On the speed issue, to beat a dead dog deader, The ZOdiac is a bit different than a 701, and a differnece goal. It is LSA yes, however it is used by guys like me for VFR or IFR, nonLSA use, and sometimes trickin more speed out of the plane is better for my commute once a month to Miami. distance of 190miles. If I can sqeeze 10 mph faster, i will try. Does not make any diffence at 5000 ft, it does feel the same, however it gets me there faster, and to some that is why we bought the plane. If I wanted a varieze or a RV-7 I would have bought one. Frankly I am not a carreer builder so the 601 is a good happy medium. My goal is BUild it cheaper than a factory built one, build it within a year. What is nice bout the 601 is the cruise and range. with a climb prop you will get 120-130 mph. with a cruise prop, you get 120-140, mybe more if you want to burn 8 gph with the Jabiru 3300. If I wanted to fly low and slow and land in my bath tub or drive way, the 701 is a great choice. I bought the Sen. gound adjust prop for the flexability. Some months when I am too fat from all that Cuban cooking, I give it Little more pitch, when the wife trims me down, the cruise setting goes back. When my dad wants a ride, we are at max gross with two guys and half a pint of gas, so the climb setting is a blessing. JUan -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Gower >Sent: Jan 17, 2007 2:51 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > >Hello Paul, > >Yes, I am aware, but that was not the meaning of my post... What I have noted in many years of flying, that most pilots, want to get more speed of the airplane they fly. even if its a 55 mph ultralight or a match 2 jet... > >Speed is only important in long XCountries or races, I think. > >What I want to say is that once you have an airplane, enjoy it as is, probably a little "cleaning" to improve range, On the other side, to get a few mph of any given airframe, you need lots more power, gasoline and $ not worth it in my case. > >Well I think not matters, Lets stop this matter. > > I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies. > >Saludos >Gary Gower >Please Do not archive. > >Paul Mulwitz wrote: Hi Gary, > > Perhaps you are not aware, but we have a new set of rules for pilots and planes from the FAA in the United States. For those of us too old and decrepit to want to fight for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate, there is the Sport Pilot restriction which allows us to fly any plane that meets the Light Sport Aircraft limits without a medical certificate. > > The short version of all of this is we can fly a 701 or 601 (most models, possibly not the HDS) without fighting for the medical certificate. Higher performance planes like a Verieze don't qualify under this new rule. > > The essence of the Sport Pilot restriction is we must limit our flying to VFR day operations. Personally, I like those limits anyway. I might go get an instrument rating if I could do it without the medical certificate, but that will have to wait a few years for the FAA to decide they don't like third class medical certificates any more. That may happen and it may not. > > > So, there is actually some merit for guys like me to try to squeeze performance out of my Zodiac XL that I just can't use if it comes from a heavier or naturally faster plane. > > Regards, > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > > At 12:10 PM 1/11/2007, you wrote: > Respectfully, What for? Want to cruise faster, same engine? buy a Varieze or with a 0200 a Long Eze... > > Lets enjoy the flight, once the wheels are off the ground :-) > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Hope to finish my 601XL soon. > Now cruising at 85 - 90 in the 701 912S at 11,500 ft ASL @ 5100 rpm > Do not archive. > > Brandon Tucker wrote: > > > > Craig, > > > All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same > > as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to > > clean up our planes. I think the Jab is a better > > engine, for those who can afford it. I am just > > pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or > > have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing > > an HDS > > > > > > >--------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:46 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Juan, I too bought the Sensenich ground adjustable prop. It is my understanding that when you change the pitch, you will need to retune the carb jetting or you will lose enough efficiency and temperature control to negate the value of changing the pitch. The benefit of the adjustable prop is the choice of how one wants to set up the plane/engine/carb/prop combination but not to allow convenient mission-specific changes in pitch. Just my two cents worth and beware, I may have gotten it all wrong. Perhaps someone with lots of experience here might chime in? Ed Moody II ---- Juan Vega wrote: > > Seniores > > On the speed issue, to beat a dead dog deader, > I bought the Sen. gound adjust prop for the flexability. Some months when I am too fat from all that Cuban cooking, I give it Little more pitch, when the wife trims me down, the cruise setting goes back. When my dad wants a ride, we are at max gross with two guys and half a pint of gas, so the climb setting is a blessing. > > JUan ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:42 AM PST US From: "John and Kim Lumkes" Subject: Zenith-List: Riveting Forward Fuselage Hello all, I have searched the archives and builder's websites, and still have some questions about when to rivet what sections during the forward fuselage work report. The work report continually say "cleco X to X", next step, "cleco Z to Z", and only in a few instances to actually rivet something. Does any have guidelines or experience with how this section progresses. Is it possible to complete the entire work report (side skins, floor, instrument panel, etc.) using clecos (assuming I have enough), then disassemble the entire thing, debur, prime, reassemble, and rivet? What other things besides the front top skin, rear top skins, and top center wings skins should be left clecoed until nearly finished and wires, cables, brake lines, etc., are installed. Thanks! John 601HD/R912 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S From: george.mueller@aurora.org It is time for me to buy the Rotax 912S for my 701. What has been the experience of folks on this list with different vendors? Does Zenith stock their engines, or drop ship them from Rotax dealers? Who has the best pricing and after the sale service? George in Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:43 AM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Riveting Forward Fuselage John- At the point you are at Zenith assumes you know pretty much how to put things together. It really doesn't matter which panels are rivted in what order. When I got to the point that I was running low on clecos, I began to rivet starting at the rear and moving forward. Worked for me. George May 601XL 912s---42hours >From: "John and Kim Lumkes" >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: Riveting Forward Fuselage >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:03:44 -0500 > >Hello all, > >I have searched the archives and builder's websites, and still have some >questions about when to rivet what sections during the forward fuselage >work >report. The work report continually say "cleco X to X", next step, "cleco Z >to Z", and only in a few instances to actually rivet something. Does any >have guidelines or experience with how this section progresses. Is it >possible to complete the entire work report (side skins, floor, instrument >panel, etc.) using clecos (assuming I have enough), then disassemble the >entire thing, debur, prime, reassemble, and rivet? > >What other things besides the front top skin, rear top skins, and top >center >wings skins should be left clecoed until nearly finished and wires, cables, >brake lines, etc., are installed. > >Thanks! John >601HD/R912 _________________________________________________________________ >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:37 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Ed, I don't have experience but, as usual, I do have some thoughts on the matter. I have been reading about issues with the Bing carburetor supplied with the Jabiru engine on this list and also other Jabiru specific lists. It seems to me that the "Automatic" mixture control of this carburetor is little more than an empty promise. While I think the Jabiru is clearly the best choice for powering a Zodiac XL, I also think the carburetor is a leading candidate for replacement with a normal one. I have been adjusting my own mixture according to flight intentions and altitude for several decades now, and I am very comfortable with continuing to do that. I just heard a big recommendation for the Ellison TBI, EFS 3A as an ideal replacement for the Bing carburetor in this application. I may just go ahead and do this right up front. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 06:22 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote: >Juan, I too bought the Sensenich ground adjustable prop. It is my >understanding that when you change the pitch, you will need to >retune the carb jetting or you will lose enough efficiency and >temperature control to negate the value of changing the pitch. > >The benefit of the adjustable prop is the choice of how one wants to >set up the plane/engine/carb/prop combination but not to allow >convenient mission-specific changes in pitch. Just my two cents >worth and beware, I may have gotten it all wrong. > >Perhaps someone with lots of experience here might chime in? > >Ed Moody II - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S From: Stanley Challgren George in Milwaukee: You said: "It is time for me to buy the Rotax 912S for my 701. What has been the experience of folks on this list with different vendors? Does Zenith stock their engines, or drop ship them from Rotax dealers? Who has the best pricing and after the sale service? " I'm at the same point as you are and am most interested in the 'after the sale service'. I had superb service from Jabiru on my previous 3300 but I gather from comments that it is not a good choice for the 701. So the 912S seems to be the consensus choice for the 701 but I also hear adverse comments about their service so your question is most important to me. I talked to Roger at Zenith at Oshkosh and he said they could provide the complete engine package but I neglected to ask about their after- sales service. Given Zenith's outstanding support on the kits I would expect the same on the engines but will be most interested in any comments on their engine support. Stan 701VG (reserved) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:36 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: RE:Time to buy the 912S Hi George: >From a different prospective, have you considered the Jabiru 2200A? Lower fuel burn, 85 HP, no wet cooling system, no gear reduction unit, runs under 3000 RPM, very smooth and quiet running. Available with complete FWF package for somewhat less dollars than the RoTax 912. The 2000 TBO figure is also appealing. I bought mine last fall from JabiruUSA in Tennessee. One beautiful little engine! They do have a web site with all the details. Just another option to consider. George ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:43 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! Terry Turnquist 60XL-Plans St. Peters, MO Paul Mulwitz wrote: Hi Gary, Let me post one more comment on this subject. First let me say I agree with you completely about enjoying flight. I don't think a small change in speed is noticeable when you are flying. I also agree that getting more speed means burning more fuel. The other part of this issue is the desire to get more performance from your plane. I see this as an engineering challenge. This is also part of the Experimental Airplane spirit. It seems like a wonderful opportunity to create great airplanes. More likely it is an opportunity to try things that don't really help. Still, the effort is its own reward. More performance can have many meanings. For a cross country cruiser this might mean more speed or range. For a Bush Plane it might mean being able to take off or land on a shorter field. For any pilot in any situation the ability to land exactly where you want to land and take off and clear the trees at the other end of the field are critical abilities. Any and all of these qualities are reasonable targets for airplane experimenters. I feel I have already gained a great deal just thinking about these things. I have built a LRI which should improve my ability to land my plane in minimum distance. I really don't know where all this experimentation might end. It is all fun. Best regards, Paul > I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies. --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet sizing and part numbers From: "pilot4pay" Please pardon me for these newbie questions. Could anyone clarify for me the dimension referenced for size? For example, when zenith says 5/32" rivet is the dimension reffering to the diameter of the rivet that passes through the material to be fastened? Is a different size head required for each rivet size to accomodate the difference in stem diameter? Has anyone had their own riveter head domed, or did you have to buy them? Does anyone know the textron part number of the rivets? I look at the textron fasteners website looking for a data sheet, but the numbers they use are not simple "A4" or "A5" and their names aren't just Avex, there's Avdel breakstem systems avibulb blah blah blah. I'm just trying to get the data sheets on what will be used in the kit. Thanks for your trouble. -------- Craig Smith Future CH801 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88353#88353 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:15 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller The Jabiru with a Bing Carb with automatic mixture control works fine going up or coming down on my XL The max altitude I have flow has been 12, 500 ft. Engine purred going up, going straight and level, and going down. Could have finer EGT "tweeking" with manual control, which would be ok, but I consider the auto feature acceptable. With the Jab "economy" carb needle (supplied on newer engines and retrofit on "older" ones) economy cruising with higher EGT is achieved. I cruise at 4.8 GPM at 120 mph on my "draggy" XL. (bigger tires/wheels - no fairings) at about 6,000 ft. Do not have to worry about going too lean with full power with the Bing. On the XL/Jab FWF, the air pressure is sensed in the airfilter box which is same as the air pressure going to the engine. Other Jab installations may have other pick up locations which may have some impact on the auto feature mixture control ((i.e. a friend of mine had had extended his carb bowl vent lines about 4 inches below the cowling. This evidently caused a vacuum in the lines when he picked up speed after leveling off, causing the low RPM problem. in his Rotax 912S (also Bings) powered 701. Scared the heck out of him when he leveled off, started picking up speed and then the engine had a dramatic drop in RPM)) Tony Graziano 601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 195 hrs ----------------- "I have been reading about issues with the Bing carburetor supplied with the Jabiru engine on this list and also other Jabiru specific lists. It seems to me that the "Automatic" mixture control of this carburetor is little more than an empty promise. While I think the Jabiru is clearly the best choice for powering a Zodiac XL, I also think the carburetor is a leading candidate for replacement with a normal one." ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers From: "Carlos Sa" >From the archives: __________________ Match: #15 Message: #5925 From: Carlos Sa Subject: AVDEL + rivets Hello Today I called Zenair (in Ontario) and obtained the part number for the rivets: A4 (1/4") 01604-00412 A5 (5/32") 01604-00514 __________________ However, I intend to acquire new batches exclusively from ZAC. It's a long story, but the short version is, you can't go wrong with ZAC rivets. For the long version, search on "rivets & china". Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada do not archive, it's already there. -------- CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88385#88385 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:30 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S George For pricing you'll see that everyone is pretty much the same. When I looked a couple of years ago, I found that southern Mississippi would sell for $500 cheaper but wanted the cash up front. Lockwood and LEAF would take a credit card and their pricing was the same. I had heard from others about the good service at Loockwood, so I went with them. Since then, they have been very responsive to all of my inquiries. I used the CWA firewall forward. George May 601XL 912s >From: george.mueller@aurora.org >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:12:17 -0600 > >It is time for me to buy the Rotax 912S for my 701. What has been the >experience of folks on this list with different vendors? Does Zenith >stock their engines, or drop ship them from Rotax dealers? Who has the >best pricing and after the sale service? > > >George in Milwaukee _________________________________________________________________ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:08 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet sizing and part numbers The stated size is the diameter of the rivet before it is set. The hole drilled in the metal will be slightly larger (#30 for A4 and #20 for A5) to allow easier installation. The rivet will expand to fill the hole when it is set. You will need a different riveter head for each size rivet for the reason you stated and because the dome cut in the head will have to match the size of the rivet head. Machining the dome into the riveter head is not difficult. I just chucked the head in my drill and spun it while grinding the dome with a grinding stone in a dremel tool. Grind a bit, pull a test rivet and grind some more as necessary to get a good result. > > Please pardon me for these newbie questions. Could anyone clarify for me the dimension referenced for size? For example, when zenith says 5/32" rivet is the dimension reffering to the diameter of the rivet that passes through the material to be fastened? > Is a different size head required for each rivet size to accomodate the difference in stem diameter? > Has anyone had their own riveter head domed, or did you have to buy them? > Does anyone know the textron part number of the rivets? I look at the textron fasteners website looking for a data sheet, but the numbers they use are not simple "A4" or "A5" and their names aren't just Avex, there's Avdel breakstem systems avibulb blah blah blah. I'm just trying to get the data sheets on what will be used in the kit. > Thanks for your trouble. > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:02 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet sizing and part numbers Hi Craig; Anyone asking questons is an asset! I have had very good results calling ZAC - they always answer very directly. The aircraft rivet callout always refers to the diameter first and then length - however, I have never used these rivets so do not know if it applies to them as well. The diameter is in 32nds and the length is the grip length in 16ths - usually! I have attached the PDF for the 1604 fastener (that is what they said it was). pilot4pay wrote: Please pardon me for these newbie questions. Could anyone clarify for me the dimension referenced for size? For example, when zenith says 5/32" rivet is the dimension reffering to the diameter of the rivet that passes through the material to be fastened? Is a different size head required for each rivet size to accomodate the difference in stem diameter? Has anyone had their own riveter head domed, or did you have to buy them? Does anyone know the textron part number of the rivets? I look at the textron fasteners website looking for a data sheet, but the numbers they use are not simple "A4" or "A5" and their names aren't just Avex, there's Avdel breakstem systems avibulb blah blah blah. I'm just trying to get the data sheets on what will be used in the kit. Thanks for your trouble. -------- Craig Smith Future CH801 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88353#88353 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:10 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S George I hear nothing but good things about Lockwood. I doubt you will get competitive pricing on Rotax engines since the dealer margins are really thin. Also, consider the Czech Aircraft Works firewall forward instead of the "old" ZAC one. The new system they show on their site was developed in Germany. I'm extremely happy with the CZAW front-end on my 601HD compared to the old stock ZAC system. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Jan 17, 2007, at 10:12 AM, george.mueller@aurora.org wrote: > > It is time for me to buy the Rotax 912S for my 701. What has been > the experience of folks on this list with different vendors? Does > Zenith stock their engines, or drop ship them from Rotax dealers? > Who has the best pricing and after the sale service? > > > George in Milwaukee > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:20 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips John- I do, and I hope to Hell it stays that way. Kind of a Catch-22 situation. All the major polluters moved out West, but so did most of the high paying jobs. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bolding To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips Bill, Hopefully you live where the humidity and pollution are low as THAT's what gonna determine how much you gotta keep rubbin' on that pretty bird, unless you put on a clear coat , which isn't a cure-all either. Along the Gulf Coast where I live you see precious few polished airplanes due to the continuing effort to keep them good looking, I admire your grit!! pun intended LOW&SLOW John : Re: Zenith-List: Re: Painfully learned polishing tips Pat- I think the hassle is more in getting what you want to begin with- maintanance should be no big deal. Bill Naumuk ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Phil- 1. I disagree as far as grade selection. It takes longer to wet sand, then compound with a lighter grit with my skins. (They're nearly 4 years old and were stored in a dehumidified basement). That would approximate the condition of a completed airframe stored in a the average garage (With the exception of the skins stored next to the block walls). Feel free to come over to my shop and prove me wrong. 2. I agree with you on the rivets. Wear and tear isn't what kills bonnets, accumulated gunk that won't come out even with TSP soaks is. do not archive? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Two comments about Nuvite polishing: 1. I don't recommend using the courser grades of Nuvite. You would be better off starting with a wet sand of 1000 grit sand paper and then wet sanding with 1500 grit sand paper. After that go to Nuvite C and S. 2. Don't worry a thing about your rivet heads. The rivets and the area right beside them will polish to a shine much quicker than the unsupported areas of the skin between the rivets. I didn't even put Nuvite on the rivets and they are the shiniest part of the plane. Pictures can be found at http://flycorvair.com/snf2006.html (middle of page) and video here: http://zenvair.com/ Also, middle of the page. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: a.s.elliott@cox.net Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing and Rivet Heads Gang: About to begin polishing the bottom of the fuselage with Nuvite F9 <> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get free, personalized online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora. Try it! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: SP/XL All- Has anyone else noticed that the XL wasn't featured in the 12/06 edition of SP? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:11 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SP/XL All- Stupid me. I confused SP with SA. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: SP/XL All- Has anyone else noticed that the XL wasn't featured in the 12/06 edition of SP? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:23 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S I haven't bought an engine from them, but I did buy several instruments a few years ago. They were great to work with. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevor Page To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Time to buy the 912S George I hear nothing but good things about Lockwood. I doubt you will get competitive pricing on Rotax engines since the dealer margins are really thin. Also, consider the Czech Aircraft Works firewall forward instead of the "old" ZAC one. The new system they show on their site was developed in Germany. I'm extremely happy with the CZAW front-end on my 601HD compared to the old stock ZAC system. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Jan 17, 2007, at 10:12 AM, george.mueller@aurora.org wrote: It is time for me to buy the Rotax 912S for my 701. What has been the experience of folks on this list with different vendors? Does Zenith stock their engines, or drop ship them from Rotax dealers? Who has the best pricing and after the sale service? George in Milwaukee href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:08 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Terry, I got the plans on the web and built the probe while waiting for my wing kit. I don't have the web site address handy, but I think you will find it easily enough if you just search on LRI. Also, I think there is a copy of the drawing on one of the big Zenith builder's sites. The probe is a solid piece of aluminum 1/2" x 1" x 6" as best I can recall. You just need to drill a couple of deep holes and a couple of probe input holes at the other end. Then you need to tap the other end of each hole and install NPT thread hardware to attach the pneumatic tubes. It is all pretty straight forward and takes only an hour or two with a decent drill press - if you don't bother to polish the outside of the probe. The drawing gives details of the differential pressure meter needed to complete the project. I bought a new one for around $50 from the manufacturer, but others have found them on Ebay for less. I hope that is enough information. If you need any more just write and I will dig it up. Paul XL fuselage At 10:55 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote: >Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! > >Terry Turnquist >60XL-Plans >St. Peters, MO > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:54 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Ed, You are correct, Prop pitch effects RPm, But not the carborator. Pitch of the prop directly transfers the engergy of the plane into Thrust. Consider the Thrust as Mass of air handled. In these terms, thrust is equal to the mass of air handled times the slip stream velocity minus the velocity of the airplane. Thus in a simpler term, Prop pitch governs the rpm which is a funtion of the engine working to convert the energy to thurst. A controlable pitch prop is for requirement of climb or cruise and desired rpm at either. When you fly a plane with fully adjustable prop, you want to convert the energy to thrust, thus you fly the MP setting square to the rpm setting. ex: 2900 RPM AT TAKEOFF IS 29.00mp SETTING. Cruise rpm reduced to 2350 rpm at 75% power setting reduces the required prop setting to 23 to 24.00 MP setting. Thus the term, "fly the squares" The harder the engine works, the more fuel you consume, but you do not touch the mixture on the plane, unless Pressure altitude requires it. The prop to a certain extent needs to be customized to the engine, that is why the Jabiru requires a certain diameter prop, if not the rpm can cause the tips to go SS, however the lower end torque suffers, so you need a prop that counters the torque reduction on the lower end due to diameter size constraint. A prop is adjusted for performance desired in the plane , (climb, cruise, etc.). Where you refer to EGT being effected is the energy not being converted to thrust but heat, the velocity of the plane becomes a factor in the air reaching the fins of the cooling heads, and the fuel going into the engintion chamber is not coling the piston enough. thus higher temps. If properly set between 2 and 4 degrees you will not get High CHT temps. If you need some books to refer to I can recommend a few. A good read on the topic of props is Aircraft Systems, By: Dale Demer, Ph.D, Jeppesen Sanderson Training Manuals, 1996. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: dredmoody@cox.net >Sent: Jan 17, 2007 9:22 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller > > >Juan, I too bought the Sensenich ground adjustable prop. It is my understanding that when you change the pitch, you will need to retune the carb jetting or you will lose enough efficiency and temperature control to negate the value of changing the pitch. > >The benefit of the adjustable prop is the choice of how one wants to set up the plane/engine/carb/prop combination but not to allow convenient mission-specific changes in pitch. Just my two cents worth and beware, I may have gotten it all wrong. > >Perhaps someone with lots of experience here might chime in? > >Ed Moody II > >---- Juan Vega wrote: >> >> Seniores >> >> On the speed issue, to beat a dead dog deader, > >> I bought the Sen. gound adjust prop for the flexability. Some months when I am too fat from all that Cuban cooking, I give it Little more pitch, when the wife trims me down, the cruise setting goes back. When my dad wants a ride, we are at max gross with two guys and half a pint of gas, so the climb setting is a blessing. >> >> JUan > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:36 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller I have injection molded probes, new gauges and silk screened faces, email me off list if interested. jnbolding1@teleshare.net John ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Terry, I got the plans on the web and built the probe while waiting for my wing kit. I don't have the web site address handy, but I think you will find it easily enough if you just search on LRI. Also, I think there is a copy of the drawing on one of the big Zenith builder's sites. The probe is a solid piece of aluminum 1/2" x 1" x 6" as best I can recall. You just need to drill a couple of deep holes and a couple of probe input holes at the other end. Then you need to tap the other end of each hole and install NPT thread hardware to attach the pneumatic tubes. It is all pretty straight forward and takes only an hour or two with a decent drill press - if you don't bother to polish the outside of the probe. The drawing gives details of the differential pressure meter needed to complete the project. I bought a new one for around $50 from the manufacturer, but others have found them on Ebay for less. I hope that is enough information. If you need any more just write and I will dig it up. Paul XL fuselage At 10:55 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote: Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! Terry Turnquist 60XL-Plans St. Peters, MO ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:13 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org builders resources section Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Terry, I got the plans on the web and built the probe while waiting for my wing kit. I don't have the web site address handy, but I think you will find it easily enough if you just search on LRI. Also, I think there is a copy of the drawing on one of the big Zenith builder's sites. The probe is a solid piece of aluminum 1/2" x 1" x 6" as best I can recall. You just need to drill a couple of deep holes and a couple of probe input holes at the other end. Then you need to tap the other end of each hole and install NPT thread hardware to attach the pneumatic tubes. It is all pretty straight forward and takes only an hour or two with a decent drill press - if you don't bother to polish the outside of the probe. The drawing gives details of the differential pressure meter needed to complete the project. I bought a new one for around $50 from the manufacturer, but others have found them on Ebay for less. I hope that is enough information. If you need any more just write and I will dig it up. Paul XL fuselage At 10:55 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote: Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! Terry Turnquist 60XL-Plans St. Peters, MO "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com -- 1/17/2007 4:45 PM -- 1/17/2007 4:45 PM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:12 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Paul-Terry- That web site that has the LRI details is www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm. Regards- Al Young ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller Hi Terry, I got the plans on the web and built the probe while waiting for my wing kit. I don't have the web site address handy, but I think you will find it easily enough if you just search on LRI. Also, I think there is a copy of the drawing on one of the big Zenith builder's sites. The probe is a solid piece of aluminum 1/2" x 1" x 6" as best I can recall. You just need to drill a couple of deep holes and a couple of probe input holes at the other end. Then you need to tap the other end of each hole and install NPT thread hardware to attach the pneumatic tubes. It is all pretty straight forward and takes only an hour or two with a decent drill press - if you don't bother to polish the outside of the probe. The drawing gives details of the differential pressure meter needed to complete the project. I bought a new one for around $50 from the manufacturer, but others have found them on Ebay for less. I hope that is enough information. If you need any more just write and I will dig it up. Paul XL fuselage At 10:55 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote: Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! Terry Turnquist 60XL-Plans St. Peters, MO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.