---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/18/07: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:57 AM - Electronic Headsets.. (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Electronic Headsets.. (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: Electronic Headsets.. (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Electronic Headsets.. (Randy Stout) 5. 07:22 AM - More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 (george.mueller@aurora.org) 6. 07:22 AM - Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers (pilot4pay) 7. 08:28 AM - Re: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 (Frank Stutzman) 8. 09:04 AM - Re: Time to buy the 912S (billmileski) 9. 09:07 AM - Re: 601XL flap rib control plate (lwinger) 10. 11:03 AM - Re:701 Engine Choice (Zed Smith) 11. 12:07 PM - Re:OT Re:701 Engine Choice (Noel Loveys) 12. 12:27 PM - A new Evans Question (ricklach) 13. 01:08 PM - Re: A new Evans Question (LarryMcFarland) 14. 01:19 PM - Re: A new Evans Question (Bill Cardell) 15. 01:34 PM - Re: A new Evans Question (Ken Arnold) 16. 02:17 PM - Re: Re:701 Engine Choice (Randy L. Thwing) 17. 04:01 PM - 912s vs 912 () 18. 05:17 PM - Re: A new Evans Question (ronlee) 19. 05:27 PM - Re: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 (Dan) 20. 06:19 PM - Re: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 (Dave Ruddiman) 21. 06:29 PM - Re: Electronic Headsets.. (Tim Shankland) 22. 06:53 PM - Re: Time to buy the 912S (RURUNY@aol.com) 23. 07:04 PM - Off topic, kinda on topic (RURUNY@aol.com) 24. 09:19 PM - Re: Off topic, kinda on topic (Dave Ruddiman) 25. 10:56 PM - Re: Electronic Headsets.. (Eddie G.) 26. 11:34 PM - Re: Re: A new Evans Question and 912 vs. 912S (Dabusmith@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:26 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. I recently converted a pair of headphones with the noise cancelling module from Headsets, Inc. It was a fairly simple job and I'm happy with the results. The cost, while not as much as most "off-the-shelf" systems, was about $150...plus the headset. Yesterday, I got a catalog/flyer from Harbor Freight. And in it I found a pair of "electronic earmuffs." The ad says..."revolutionary technology blocks out only sounds that exceed safety levels." It uses two AA batteries. And the sale price is a whopping $9.99 ....regular cost is $19.99! What's the catch? Has anyone ever used a pair of these ear muffs? Do they actually work? I know.....if something sounds too good to be true, etc. etc....... Here's the page on their website..... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search Dave 601XL/Corviar ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:46 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. Hmmm....I don't think the link that I sent works. If you search the Harbor Freight web site, look for item number 92851. Or try this link....maybe it will work. Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices Dave ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:58 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. OK....that link doesn't work either....sorry. If you search for item number 92851 you'll find it. Dave ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:54 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. Try this one: ELECTRONIC EAR MUFFS http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92851 Where did you see the $9.99. I got $19.99 from the web site. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21; http://www.mykitlog.com/r5t0ut/ n282rs at satx.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of VideoFlyer@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. OK....that link doesn't work either....sorry. If you search for item number 92851 you'll find it. Dave ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 From: george.mueller@aurora.org I received some very helpful feedback from the list on experiences with Rotax vendors, as it is time for me to buy the 912S for my 701. However one response has stopped my in my tracks for now. It was from a 701 flyer that had a 912S who wished he had the 80 HP 912. The advantages of the 80HP were: easier starting, doesn't shake the tail apart (although I have redone all the HS mounts, both on the fuselage and HS in .063), the 100hp only needed if flying floats, the only benefit without floats is you get a bit of a boost on take off (I thought I might add floats down the road, but it is not for sure, I might never get around to it and shortening take off distance in a 701, well how short does it need to be?), the 912 S needs a gearbox clutch and the prop alternatives are slightly more limited, the 80hp has a lower price, slightly less fuel usage, less vibration and somewhat higher reliability. My whole life I have always considered more horsepower to be better, but now I am wondering.....I have the Skyshops FWF so I am committed to the Rotax 912 ( I assume the FWF fits the 912 or the 912s both, I ordered about a year ago and I can't remember if I had to specify which engine, but I think both engines are identical on the outside). What has been the experience of the 80hp flyers vs the 100hp flyers? I have to make a decision fast, as Rotax engine prices are going up $1,000 on Feb 1. George in Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet sizing and part numbers From: "pilot4pay" Thanks for all of those who took the time and effort to dig up information for me. I have all the information now. I will need 2 heads for my puller, I can modify them my self, and I have the data sheet for the specific rivet type used. I had suspected it was the 1604, but wanted to be sure, not guess. Looking forward to this project, just waiting for Can-Zac to schedule the next rudder workshop to get started. Any other 640 builders out there? -------- Craig Smith Future CH640 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88599#88599 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:16 AM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, george.mueller@aurora.org wrote: > the 100hp > only needed if flying floats, the only benefit without floats is you get a > bit of a boost on take off (I thought I might add floats down the road, > but it is not for sure, I might never get around to it and shortening take > off distance in a 701, well how short does it need to be?), If I ever do get started on a 701, it is very likely that I am going to be using it to fly into some fairly remote moutain strips. That extra 20 HP might be very useful when the summer density altitude hits. Just something to consider. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Time to buy the 912S From: "billmileski" > George I hear nothing but good things about Lockwood. Ditto. I didn't even buy my 912S from Lockwood, but they have been very very helpful to me many times. If I bought again, I'd buy from them. For what it's worth, I would consider the 912 instead of the 912S. I have significant startup vibration with the 912S even with some efforts to reduce it, and besides the ridiculous takeoff capability, I cruise well below 75% power all the time, can approach Vne in horizontal flight, and have concluded that the 80hp version would be a very sensible match, with its lower cost, and lower compression. It would probably cruise about right at 75%, give similar great short field performance, tolerate wider fuel quality, burn slightly less gph (maybe), and vibrate less. Just food for thought. Although in the resale world, some might worry that people want the 912S instead.. Best of luck, and all of your options are great, I have a friend with a Jab 2200 in his newly completed 701 and it is really nice (performance figures not measured yet).. Bill Mileski Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88629#88629 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL flap rib control plate From: "lwinger" Thanks to all for the input and perspective. Do not archive. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Tail done / Working on flaps Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88630#88630 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:04 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re:701 Engine Choice Don't remember the source, but if memory serves, Chris Heintz originally designed the 701 with 50 or 60 horsepower in mind.....earlier plans/kits used the 2-stroke Rotax 582. If more power and less vibration are of concern the PT-6A might work. Regards to all, Zed/701/r912/90+%/etc/do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:04 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE:OT Zenith-List: Re:701 Engine Choice Definitely would have more power and less vibration..... Maybe put the wins on the hub and spin the plane... Noel Only kidding ... Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:31 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re:701 Engine Choice > > > > Don't remember the source, but if memory serves, Chris > Heintz originally designed the 701 with 50 or 60 horsepower > in mind.....earlier plans/kits used the 2-stroke Rotax 582. > If more power and less vibration are of concern the PT-6A might work. > Regards to all, > Zed/701/r912/90+%/etc/do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question From: "ricklach" I have read all the "SB" and all the thoughts posted on this List and I am undecided about which way to go. I have read on this List that the Evans product dose not pull as much heat out of the motor as the 50/50 mix dose. So all other things left unchanged, the engine will run hotter with Evans than with the 50/50 mix. I have also read post that say it is FLAMABLE, see link below. If this is true and a leak accurse in the cooling system near an exhaust pipe that could be a big deal. The Evans product defiantly works at a higher temperature than the 50/50 mix dose, but Im not so sure thats enough to make it worth changing. :( Link to one Flammable post: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=21513&highlight=sb912043king the change considering the drawbacks. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88669#88669 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:12 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question Rick, You are probably right about reconsidering use of a Evans coolant mix. If you worry about cooling at all, the first concerns should be if you have adequate cooling at all or are you at the edge of overheating. Evans doesn't resolve that by simply not boiling off. Excessive temps localized to spots within the engine should not be allowed to occur in the first place. Different if you are using an unlimited race car stripped of everything to achieve a brief maximum. The airplane engine needs consistent cooling while idling, taxiing or climbing out of the pattern. Evans is not an end run around a mediocre cooling situation. When antifreeze 50/50 provides the advantage in real cooling, I'd be unlikely to trade off to the promise of better control of excessively high temps when a proper radiator and hoses should do the job. Without the flame issue, most good cooling designs don't need the extra cost, complexity, special handling and change that goes with a "special coolant". Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ricklach wrote: > > I have read all the "SB" and all the thoughts posted on this List and I am undecided about which way to go. I have read on this List that the Evans product dose not pull as much heat out of the motor as the 50/50 mix dose. So all other things left unchanged, the engine will run hotter with Evans than with the 50/50 mix. I have also read post that say it is FLAMABLE, see link below. If this is true and a leak accurse in the cooling system near an exhaust pipe that could be a big deal. The Evans product defiantly works at a higher temperature than the 50/50 mix dose, but Im not so sure thats enough to make it worth changing. :( > > Link to one Flammable post: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=21513&highlight=sb912043king the change considering the drawbacks. > > Rick > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88669#88669 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question From: "Bill Cardell" Most of the listed benefits can be achieved with slightly lower antifreeze concentrations (which improve heat transfer over a 50/50 mix) and higher pressure rad cap, which raises the boiling point. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S 970-242-3800 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question --> Rick, You are probably right about reconsidering use of a Evans coolant mix. If you worry about cooling at all, the first concerns should be if you have adequate cooling at all or are you at the edge of overheating. Evans doesn't resolve that by simply not boiling off. Excessive temps localized to spots within the engine should not be allowed to occur in the first place. Different if you are using an unlimited race car stripped of everything to achieve a brief maximum. The airplane engine needs consistent cooling while idling, taxiing or climbing out of the pattern. Evans is not an end run around a mediocre cooling situation. When antifreeze 50/50 provides the advantage in real cooling, I'd be unlikely to trade off to the promise of better control of excessively high temps when a proper radiator and hoses should do the job. Without the flame issue, most good cooling designs don't need the extra cost, complexity, special handling and change that goes with a "special coolant". Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ricklach wrote: > > I have read all the "SB" and all the thoughts posted on this List and I am undecided about which way to go. I have read on this List that the Evans product dose not pull as much heat out of the motor as the 50/50 mix dose. So all other things left unchanged, the engine will run hotter with Evans than with the 50/50 mix. I have also read post that say it is FLAMABLE, see link below. If this is true and a leak accurse in the cooling system near an exhaust pipe that could be a big deal. The Evans product defiantly works at a higher temperature than the 50/50 mix dose, but IEUR(tm)m not so sure thatEUR(tm)s enough to make it worth changing. :( > > Link to one Flammable post: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=21513&highlight=sb912043king the change considering the drawbacks. > > Rick > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88669#88669 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:31 PM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question Larry, Excellent assessment. If its not broke, don't "fix" it. Ken Arnold CH701 on order ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A new Evans Question > > Rick, > You are probably right about reconsidering use of a Evans coolant mix. If > you worry about cooling at all, the first concerns should be if you have > adequate cooling at all or are you at the edge of overheating. Evans > doesn't resolve that by simply not boiling off. Excessive temps localized > to spots within the engine should not be allowed to occur in the first > place. Different if you are using an unlimited race car stripped of > everything to achieve a brief maximum. The airplane engine needs > consistent cooling while idling, taxiing or climbing out of the pattern. > Evans is not an end run around a mediocre cooling situation. When > antifreeze 50/50 provides the advantage in real cooling, I'd be unlikely > to trade off to the promise of better control of excessively high temps > when a proper radiator and hoses should do the job. Without the flame > issue, most good cooling designs don't need the extra cost, complexity, > special handling and change that goes with a "special coolant". > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ricklach wrote: >> >> I have read all the "SB" and all the thoughts posted on this List and I >> am undecided about which way to go. I have read on this List that the >> Evans product dose not pull as much heat out of the motor as the 50/50 >> mix dose. So all other things left unchanged, the engine will run hotter >> with Evans than with the 50/50 mix. I have also read post that say it is >> FLAMABLE, see link below. If this is true and a leak accurse in the >> cooling system near an exhaust pipe that could be a big deal. The Evans >> product defiantly works at a higher temperature than the 50/50 mix dose, >> but Im not so sure thats enough to make it worth changing. :( >> Link to one Flammable post: >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=21513&highlight=sb912043king >> the change considering the drawbacks. >> Rick >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88669#88669 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:38 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:701 Engine Choice >From the ZA archives: Designer Chris Heintz flying the prototype STOL CH 701 (powered by a 52-hp Rotax 503) in 1986. That's why I thought it should fly on the Franklin 60 hp I intend to use some day! Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas > > Don't remember the source, but if memory serves, Chris Heintz originally designed the 701 with 50 or 60 horsepower in mind.....earlier plans/kits used the 2-stroke Rotax 582. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:48 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: 912s vs 912 I have a 912s on my 701. Where I consider it necessary is when loaded. The difference in lightly loaded vs heavy loaded is huge, even at near sealevel altitudes.Climb rate/angle is affected dramatically, more so than takeoff distance. As was said in one of the related posts density altitude/gross weight is the determining factor here. I had planned on summer ops in mountain areas and while it will be doable it will have to be done with particular care and won't be a casual undertaking. For my ops anyway I consider the 912s essential, disadvantages be damned. Joe ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A new Evans Question From: "ronlee" I don't understand the questioning of the engine manufacture (Rotax) recomending Evans. If they did not feel it was a benefit , they wouldn't recomend it. It isn't the overall temp. of the engine, but the steam bubbles that form in pockets in the heads, and they offer very little cooling in the area they form. Steam absorbs VERY little heat, therefore, damage can occur to the area of overheating, not to mention pre-ignition etc. Rotax makes a very good engine. I would bet they know what they are talking about. Myself, I use Evans and live and fly regularly in temps over 100. Considering the cost of my 912s I will adheare to Rotax recomendations. It may just be to costly not to! -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88718#88718 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:32 PM PST US From: Dan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 I just ordered the 912-S with the new Zenith 701 firewall forward package. This new package looked good and the extra $1500 for the engine is not that much in the big scheme of things. Dan Wilde PS - The real reason is my wife told me to get the bigger engine. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:00 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 See. Size does matter. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan" Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More decisions about buying the Rotax 912 for my 701 > > I just ordered the 912-S with the new Zenith 701 firewall forward package. > This new package looked good and the extra $1500 for the engine is not > that much in the big scheme of things. > > Dan Wilde > > PS - The real reason is my wife told me to get the bigger engine. > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:20 PM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Electronic Headsets.. DAve, They probably work, not becasue I have bought them but because I bought a set at the drug store for about $10.00 and they work quite well. The ones I bought for use on my computer when I am traveling and watching a movie. I find that the road noise and the radio my wife has on made it difficult to hear the sound. With the cheapy headset that backround road noise just goes away. I have though about buying another set and doing a little transplant to my aircraft headset, but I haven't got around to that yet. What really burns me is this establishes that the circuitry for the noise cancelling is DIRT CHEAP, but the headset manufacturers charge BIG bucks for the feature. Tim Shankland VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote: > I recently converted a pair of headphones with the noise cancelling > module from Headsets, Inc. It was a fairly simple job and I'm happy > with the results. The cost, while not as much as most "off-the-shelf" > systems, was about $150...plus the headset. > > Yesterday, I got a catalog/flyer from Harbor Freight. And in it I > found a pair of "electronic earmuffs." The ad says..."revolutionary > technology blocks out only sounds that exceed safety levels." It uses > two AA batteries. And the sale price is a whopping $9.99 ....regular > cost is $19.99! What's the catch? Has anyone ever used a pair of > these ear muffs? Do they actually work? I know.....if something > sounds too good to be true, etc. etc....... > > Here's the page on their website..... > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search > > Dave > 601XL/Corviar > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:57 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Time to buy the 912S I was at that same crossroads a couple years ago Dec 04 as Rotax was about to increase the price of its engines and asked the same questions. I ordered it that month from Zenith and it was delivered Mar 1 05. I got the lower price, a savings of $1300 or so. I had ordered a 912s firewall fwd with my kit from Zenith earlier. My decision to switch to the 912 80hp was on some advice of some mountain flyers and you can see my response to them back then below. If I could do this again now, I would get the engine from Lockwood because thats where I'd probably send it to for major problems and their expertice. I would get the firewall fwd from Skyshops because their cowl is nicer, they have the airbox included, and its definately a more complete setup. It was not available as a choice at the time. I would still get the 80hp. Brian 701 90% and holding _http://www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com) under construction also but at 15% Thanks Ken,Dave,and Gary for your thoughts and experience. Since I live at sea level and will do most of my flying in this area and not in mountains I will get the 80 hp engine and not the 100. I'ts definately the most realistic choice for what I'll be doing. With that decision made I called Warp drive Inc this morning and talked to Daryll about the change from the 912s to the 912. I received a 70" 3 blade warp drive prop with my Zenith firewall kit. He said that the blades be cut down to give an overall 68" diam prop for the 80 hp. The factory will do all 3 blades for about 30 dollors. He was very familiar with all Zenith models, engine choices, and prop choices for each. He also noted that all blades are cast at 72" and tips cut down to specified size. Here is a link to the price increase warning at a Rotax retailer.This is causing me to act quick and avoid the higher costs a couple months from now. Thanks to the guys who tipped the list off to the increase. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:04 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic, kinda on topic A classic. _http://www.youtube.com/v/J3UDCoQnXjA_ (http://www.youtube.com/v/J3UDCoQnXjA) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:20 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic, kinda on topic Pretty funny. I wonder how many people remember Foster Brooks. ----- Original Message ----- From: RURUNY@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic, kinda on topic A classic. http://www.youtube.com/v/J3UDCoQnXjA ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronic Headsets.. From: "Eddie G." 1. Go to harborfreight's website. 2. Click on the link to the left that reads "Order from Printed Catalog" 3. Enter item number 92851-3RTH 4. In the next screen it wants to sell you 1 and 2 year extended plan - just ignore and click continue. It should now show you the $9.99 price. 5. Click on "End and Display Choices" 6. Click on "Add to Order". If you end up shopping more than $49.99, use coupon code 621-140-843 for a $5 discount. Eddie do not archive [quote="n282rs(at)satx.rr.com"]Try this one: ELECTRONIC EAR MUFFS http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92851 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92851) Where did you see the $9.99. I got $19.99 from the web site. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 (http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21); http://www.mykitlog.com/r5t0ut/ (http://www.mykitlog.com/r5t0ut/) n282rs at satx.rr.com > > -- -------- Eddie ------------------------- "Professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark." Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88784#88784 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:06 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A new Evans Question and 912 vs. 912S I have never had an issue with water temps on my 912S. I switched to Evans as recommended by Rotax and did notice a few degrees increase .I flew in a 701 with the 912 engine having high water temperatures caused by not having enough exit area under the cowling. It was cowled so tight on the bottom there was maybe a one inch gap around the nose strut. He considered 260 deg. oil temps the upper limit and that Rotax just kept humming along. Oil temperatures can stray above 230 deg. in a climb over a mountain in the summer with the stock oil cooler. The larger oil filter offered by Lockwood cures the problem. The larger cooler and the oil thermostat were worth every penny. My 912S was very abrupt at start up and shut down. It is now tamed. The original starter sprag clutch was apparently manufactured at the limits of allowed tolerance. Changing to the new starter didn't help. The sprag clutch change was dramatic. I wonder how many of you need a new sprag clutch. The other change was to lower the idle RPM. I still idle the engine at around 1900-2000 RPM but at shut down I pull the idle way down before switching it off. Nice and gentle now. I would like to know who has the most hours on a 912S. I knew a fellow with a 912 powered Rans S-10.He had 3400 hours on it. Never overhauled. He claimed it hasn't changed since it was new. He reportedly flew back to Georgia from Sun n fun at 5800 RPM the full way. No problems ever. Are there other examples? I have never heard of a properly maintained and setup 912 or 912s having any significant problems like cylinders or crankshafts. I have seen some engine installations that led to cooling, oil supply or fuel problems. Many people have chosen another engine based on experiences with the 2-stroke engines. Some will claim problems with the radiators and gearboxes but have no specific examples to point to. Do the aircraft manufacturers have some reason to choose the 912S so often? I would think the Jabiru would be ideal for the RV-12. Any ideas? BTW the 701 with the 912 is GREAT. With the 912S it's GREAT! Dave Smith 701 912ULS 620 hours Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.