Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 03:23 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (Rick R)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (Clyde Barcus)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (Jim Hoak)
5. 06:26 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (n801bh@netzero.com)
6. 07:05 AM - Cable Rigging (Eric Tingey)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS (Bill Naumuk)
9. 08:07 AM - Re: Cable Rigging (John Bolding)
10. 08:35 AM - NOT wing flutter! (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
11. 09:26 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter???? (T. Graziano)
12. 09:54 AM - Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS (rick tedford)
13. 09:57 AM - Re: NOT wing flutter! (pilot4pay)
14. 10:31 AM - Sun-N-Fun BBQ (ZodieRocket)
15. 10:38 AM - Re: Cable Rigging (Craig Payne)
16. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: NOT wing flutter! (raymondj)
17. 11:37 AM - Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS (Craig Payne)
18. 12:19 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Roger Venables)
19. 12:49 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ (ZodieRocket)
20. 01:12 PM - Re: Cable Rigging (Eric Tingey)
21. 01:26 PM - firewall grounding buss (chris Sinfield)
22. 01:41 PM - Re: firewall grounding buss (Bryan Martin)
23. 01:50 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Bill Naumuk)
24. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Annual Inspections (Ronnie Koonce)
25. 02:35 PM - Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides (Christian Tremblay)
26. 02:47 PM - Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear leg? (Craig Payne)
27. 03:31 PM - Re: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear leg? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
28. 03:37 PM - Re: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear leg? (Robin Bellach)
29. 06:33 PM - FBO Marty Turman (Husky Larry J)
30. 09:54 PM - Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides (TxDave)
31. 10:44 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (PatrickW)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Hi Bill,
That was a truly shocking story. I can't help but connect the dots
with your flight and the recent events of XL's falling out of the sky.
I wonder if you could answer a couple of questions:
1. Which aileron hinges do you have?
2. Do you have the center stick?
3. Did you build from kit or scratch?
If you were actually experiencing flutter, then I would have thought
slowing down would be the way out. When you increased speed to stop
the vibration, did it occur again as you slowed down?
I think I'll take up knitting instead of airplane building . ..
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 10:31 PM 1/26/2007, you wrote:
>Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow
>with me and just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were
>perfect, clear, cool and only a slight wind. The only big thing
>around much to see nearby is Lake Juliette which has a big coal
>fired power station in the middle. Three huge steam towers that look
>like a nuclear power station. We flew around the lake about two
>miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could get a good look see. On the
>down wind side we flew into an invisible killer. We were doing above
>140 when we flew into it. Instantly the left wing fluttered at a
>fast pitch, aileron and all and it looked to be moving maybe two
>inched up and down. I figured a couple seconds would break it off. I
>didn't have time to look around the passenger to see if the right
>wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was. I chopped power and did a
>hard diving wing over to the left and out of it. The flutter sound
>was great even over my Lightspeed AN system and the whole thing
>probably last maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control out of the
>snap dive, maxing above 170 and flew slow and easy back to the field
>before I tested the controls. Everything felt okay and I could see
>no wrinkles in the top skin so I landed. Didn't really have much
>choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no skin deform,
>no paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all
>inspection panels for a close inspection this weekend and check
>bolts, controls, etc., but I cannot believe such a prolonged violent
>movement of the wing did not damage something other than my pride.
>Two things learned. Don't fly anywhere near a power station. Even at
>5000 feet and miles away the invisible heat rises and is most
>extreme. Maybe intensified in cold weather. The other thing is the
>XL is very, very tough. Oh, there is a third thing. How could I have
>been so stupid not to know the first thing !! I am interested
>though in knowing why the wings fluttered in this thermal? What
>theory of air dynamics would cause this extreme reaction? Was is
>just the level of heat and speed the invisible air was streaming
>past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud again.
>Best regards to you all,
>Bill of Georgia
>N505WP
>601XL-3300
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
WOW Bill,
Thanks for sharing this. That power plant was in the memory bank of my HUD!
No more!
Glad you and passenger are OK and I hope it wasn't their first flight! Let me
know if you need my help with anything INCLUDING laundry.
Low & slow...Rick
do not archive
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with me and
just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, speed the invisible
air was streaming past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud
again. Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
I know Chris Heinz is retired but I bet he would be quick to respond to
a serious question like this. I suggest you contact ZAC and ask them to
get Chris's input, I wouldn't accept their explanation if Chris wasn't
involved. Thank God you were able to get out of the situation but that
does open up questions about the right response and I think Chris's
opinion on this would be helpful as well. I appreciate your posting, all
of us can learn something from this.
Regards:
Clyde Barcus
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick R
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Flutter
WOW Bill,
Thanks for sharing this. That power plant was in the memory bank of
my HUD! No more!
Glad you and passenger are OK and I hope it wasn't their first flight!
Let me know if you need my help with anything INCLUDING laundry.
Low & slow...Rick
do not archive
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow
with me and just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were
perfect, speed the invisible air was streaming past? This was my 90th
flight in her and she made me proud again. Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Hey Bill,
Sounds scary! Glad you are OK. Although it was years ago ( first off I'm
NOT a trained test pilot ) I was involved in some actual flutter
problems involving a Midget Mustang I built by a friend and latter did
flutter tests in a Mustang II built by another friend.
When we experienced the flutter with the MM I ( at about 180 mph ) we
consulted an old friend who knew Dave Long ( the designer of the MM I )
and picked his brain. One thing he said is if you experience flutter you
have mere seconds to SLOW DOWN and the best way to do that is to reduce
power and pull the airplane up ( I noticed you dove and increased speed
but got out of it ). This procedure helped us with the MM I. What we
found with this airplane was an accumulation of built in slop in the
aileron control system. This system was all push rods and bellcranks and
the builder had just drilled all the holes ( did not ream ) and used AN
Standard bolts. I found this quickly by haveing the builder grasp one
aileron while I moved the other aileron up and down better than a 1/4"
at the trailing edge. Remeber this is a 200 mph plus airplane. We went
to NAS and oversized bolts and tightened up the slop. This DIDN'T cure
the flutter though. What we found then was that when he filled the
counterweight tubes that were mounted forward of the hinge line with
lead, he didn't get the tubes full as the lead solidified as he poured
it in and left many air spaces inside the tube. We corrected that and
the flutter problem went away. Probably both problems contributed to the
flutter.
In the Mustang II we were doing flutter test in the 225 230 mph range by
increasing the speed by 1 mph increments and never had a problem, but we
were ready to slow it down if one did arise.
I know John from AMD tested for flutter when he did your test flight and
he said nothing about it when he landed. You might call him and ask what
max speed he uses when testing.
Not being an aerodynamicist ( spelling? ) I don't know the cause for
your encounter but just maybe it has something to do with the fact that
we don't use balanced controls on these Zenith airplanes and a weird air
pattern that you encountered because of the heat from the power plant.
I've flown over large fires on the ground, as I'm sure you and others
have in the past and experienced some pretty rough air but not FLUTTER.
In your case, if it was unbalanced controls, it seems that when you dove
to 170, it should have made it worse. Do the "grab one aileron and try
to move the other test" and see what you find. Otherwise, DON'T fly near
the power plant any more! I've been tempted to fly over to that same
place but since 9-11 I stay away from all power plants.
Let me know if I can help and also what you find.
Jim Hoak
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Flutter
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with
me and just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect,
clear, cool and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to
see nearby is Lake Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in
the middle. Three huge steam towers that look like a nuclear power
station. We flew around the lake about two miles away at 5000 feet so my
pal could get a good look see. On the down wind side we flew into an
invisible killer. We were doing above 140 when we flew into it.
Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron and all and
it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and down. I figured a couple
seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to look around the
passenger to see if the right wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was.
I chopped power and did a hard diving wing over to the left and out of
it. The flutter sound was great even over my Lightspeed AN system and
the whole thing probably last maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control
out of the snap dive, maxing above 170 and flew slow and easy back to
the field before I tested the controls. Everything felt okay and I could
see no wrinkles in the top skin so I landed. Didn't really have much
choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no skin deform, no
paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all inspection
panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, controls,
etc., but I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the wing
did not damage something other than my pride. Two things learned. Don't
fly anywhere near a power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away the
invisible heat rises and is most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold
weather. The other thing is the XL is very, very tough. Oh, there is a
third thing. How could I have been so stupid not to know the first thing
!! I am interested though in knowing why the wings fluttered in this
thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause this extreme reaction?
Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible air was streaming
past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud again. Best
regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Control flutter is a function of speed, If I ever encounter it I will pu
ll off the power and instantly climb to bleed off excess speed. I am cu
rious why you dove and sped up??
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hey Bill, Sounds scary! Glad you are OK. Although it was years ago ( fir
st off I'm NOT a trained test pilot ) I was involved in some actual flut
ter problems involving a Midget Mustang I built by a friend and latter d
id flutter tests in a Mustang II built by another friend. When we experi
enced the flutter with the MM I ( at about 180 mph ) we consulted an ol
d friend who knew Dave Long ( the designer of the MM I ) and picked his
brain. One thing he said is if you experience flutter you have mere seco
nds to SLOW DOWN and the best way to do that is to reduce power and pull
the airplane up ( I noticed you dove and increased speed but got out of
it ). This procedure helped us with the MM I. What we found with this a
irplane was an accumulation of built in slop in the aileron control syst
em. This system was all push rods and bellcranks and the builder had jus
t drilled all the holes ( did not ream ) and used AN Standard bolts. I f
ound this quickly by haveing the builder grasp one aileron while I moved
the other aileron up and down better than a 1/4" at the trailing edge.
Remeber this is a 200 mph plus airplane. We went to NAS and oversized bo
lts and tightened up the slop. This DIDN'T cure the flutter though. What
we found then was that when he filled the counterweight tubes that were
mounted forward of the hinge line with lead, he didn't get the tubes fu
ll as the lead solidified as he poured it in and left many air spaces in
side the tube. We corrected that and the flutter problem went away. Prob
ably both problems contributed to the flutter. In the Mustang II we were
doing flutter test in the 225 230 mph range by increasing the speed by
1 mph increments and never had a problem, but we were ready to slow it d
own if one did arise. I know John from AMD tested for flutter when he di
d your test flight and he said nothing about it when he landed. You migh
t call him and ask what max speed he uses when testing. Not being an aer
odynamicist ( spelling? ) I don't know the cause for your encounter but
just maybe it has something to do with the fact that we don't use balanc
ed controls on these Zenith airplanes and a weird air pattern that you e
ncountered because of the heat from the power plant. I've flown over lar
ge fires on the ground, as I'm sure you and others have in the past and
experienced some pretty rough air but not FLUTTER. In your case, if it
was unbalanced controls, it seems that when you dove to 170, it should h
ave made it worse. Do the "grab one aileron and try to move the other te
st" and see what you find. Otherwise, DON'T fly near the power plant any
more! I've been tempted to fly over to that same place but since 9-11 I
stay away from all power plants. Let me know if I can help and also wha
t you find. Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: JAPhillipsGA@aol
.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:31
AMSubject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Flutter
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with me
and just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, cle
ar, cool and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to see n
earby is Lake Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in the m
iddle. Three huge steam towers that look like a nuclear power station. W
e flew around the lake about two miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could
get a good look see. On the down wind side we flew into an invisible ki
ller. We were doing above 140 when we flew into it. Instantly the left w
ing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron and all and it looked to be movin
g maybe two inched up and down. I figured a couple seconds would break i
t off. I didn't have time to look around the passenger to see if the rig
ht wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was. I chopped power and did a
hard diving wing over to the left and out of it. The flutter sound was g
reat even over my Lightspeed AN system and the whole thing probably last
maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control out of the snap dive, maxing a
bove 170 and flew slow and easy back to the field before I tested the co
ntrols. Everything felt okay and I could see no wrinkles in the top skin
so I landed. Didn't really have much choice. Upon inspection I found no
sign of stress, no skin deform, no paint cracked around rivets, nothing
. I will take off all inspection panels for a close inspection this week
end and check bolts, controls, etc., but I cannot believe such a prolong
ed violent movement of the wing did not damage something other than my p
ride. Two things learned. Don't fly anywhere near a power station. Even
at 5000 feet and miles away the invisible heat rises and is most extreme
. Maybe intensified in cold weather. The other thing is the XL is very,
very tough. Oh, there is a third thing. How could I have been so stupid
not to know the first thing !! I am interested though in knowing why th
e wings fluttered in this thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cau
se this extreme reaction? Was is just the level of heat and speed the in
visible air was streaming past? This was my 90th flight in her and she m
ade me proud again. Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http:
//www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=
<html><P>Control flutter is a function of speed, If I ever encounter it
I will pull off the power and instantly climb to bleed off excess
speed. I am curious why you dove and sped up??</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>&
nbsp;wrote:<BR></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>Hey Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>Sounds scary! Glad you are OK. Althou
gh it was years ago ( first off I'm NOT a trained test pilot ) I was inv
olved in some actual flutter problems involving a Midget Mustang I built
by a friend and latter did flutter tests in a Mustang II built by anoth
er friend.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>When we experienced the flutter with
the MM I ( at about 180 mph ) we consulted an old friend who knew
Dave Long ( the designer of the MM I ) and picked his brain. One thing h
e said is if you experience flutter you have mere seconds to SLOW DOWN a
nd the best way to do that is to reduce power and pull the airplane up (
I noticed you dove and increased speed but got out of it ). This proced
ure helped us with the MM I. What we found with this airplane was an acc
umulation of built in slop in the aileron control system. This system wa
s all push rods and bellcranks and the builder had just drilled&nbs
p;all the holes ( did not ream ) and used AN Standard bolts. I foun
d this quickly by haveing the builder grasp one aileron while I mov
ed the other aileron up and down better than a 1/4" at the trailing
edge. Remeber this is a 200 mph plus airplane. We went to NAS and overs
ized bolts and tightened up the slop. This DIDN'T cure the flutter thoug
h. What we found then was that when he filled the counterweight tub
es that were mounted forward of the hinge line with lead, he didn't get
the tubes full as the lead solidified as he poured it in and left many a
ir spaces inside the tube. We corrected that and the flutter problem wen
t away. Probably both problems contributed to the flutter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>In the Mustang II we were doing flutt
er test in the 225 230 mph range by increasing the speed by 1 mph i
ncrements and never had a problem, but we were ready to slow it dow
n if one did arise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>I know John from AMD tested for flutt
er when he did your test flight and he said nothing about it when he lan
ded. You might call him and ask what max speed he uses when testing.</FO
NT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>Not being an aerodynamicist ( spellin
g? ) I don't know the cause for your encounter but just maybe it has som
ething to do with the fact that we don't use balanced controls on these
Zenith airplanes and a weird air pattern that you encountered because of
the heat from the power plant. I've flown over large fires on the groun
d, as I'm sure you and others have in the past and experienced some pret
ty rough air but not FLUTTER. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>In your case, if it was unbalanced co
ntrols, it seems that when you dove to 170, it should have made it worse
. Do the "grab one aileron and try to move the other test" and see
what you find. Otherwise, DON'T fly near the power plant any more! I've
been tempted to fly over to that same place but since 9-11 I stay away f
rom all power plants.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>Let me know if I can help and also wh
at you find.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Georgia size=2>Jim Hoak</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MA
RGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">
<B>From:</B> <A title=JAPhillipsGA@aol.com href="mailto:JAPhillipsGA
@aol.com">JAPhillipsGA@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=zenith-list@matron
ics.com href="mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com">zenith-list@matronics.
com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 27, 2007
1:31 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Zenith-List: 601XL Wing
Flutter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial
size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Dear Thread Friends, I went
flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with me and just wanted an hour in
the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, clear, cool and only a slight w
ind. The only big thing around much to see nearby is Lake Juliette which
has a big coal fired power station in the middle. Three huge steam towe
rs that look like a nuclear power station. We flew around the lake about
two miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could get a good look see. On the
down wind side we flew into an invisible killer. We were doing above 14
0 when we flew into it. Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitc
h, aileron and all and it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and do
wn. I figured a couple seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to
look around the passenger to see if the right wing was fluttering, but
I suspect it was. I chopped power and did a hard diving wing over to the
left and out of it. The flutter sound was great even over my Lightspeed
AN system and the whole thing probably last maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I reg
ained control out of the snap dive, maxing above 170 and flew slow and e
asy back to the field before I tested the controls. Everything felt okay
and I could see no wrinkles in the top skin so I landed. Didn't really
have much choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no skin def
orm, no paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all inspec
tion panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, control
s, etc., but I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the w
ing did not damage something other than my pride. Two things learned. Do
n't fly anywhere near a power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away
the invisible heat rises and is most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold
weather. The other thing is the XL is very, very tough. Oh, there is a t
hird thing. How could I have been so stupid not to know the first thing
!! I am interested though in knowing why the wings fluttered in th
is thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause this extreme reactio
n? Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible air was streami
ng past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud again. Bes
t regards to you all, <BR>Bill of Georgia <BR>N505WP<BR>601XL-3300 </FON
T><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.ma
tronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<
/A>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,c
ourier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
========================
===========
tronics.com</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 6
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While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator cables cross over
one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Ben, maybe I did not explain well, but it was not control flutter. The
aileron did not move independent of the wing. What occurred is the whole wing
fluttered with aileron moving with it., best regards, Bill
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Ron-
The HD/HDS design has three major advantages, all related to the size of
the wings.
1. You can get by with a smaller workspace.
2. If you're scratchbuilding, you don't have to buy so many 12' sheets
of stock.
3. 8' brakes are hard enough to come by, 12' even harder.
Both XL and HDS prints/manuals have serious problems in my estimation,
but "Shooting out prints" and "Writing work instructions" is what I do for a
living. You have to balance personal expectations. Listers who have the same
job responsibilites as I do can't believe how sloppy the prints and
instructions are. On the other hand, how do Zenith instructions stack up to
the competition? I don't know- the HDS is the only plane I've attempted to
build.
Zenith has never failed to be able to supply a replacement part for my
HDS, and for that I'm grateful. Two cautions:
1. The Zenith website parts list is out of date. Prepare to receive a
quote and pay more than is listed.
2. Make absolutely sure the part number you order is what you need.
Bottom line is, CH never had a bad design. Execution is a different
story.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS
>
> Hi Gang
> The HD and HDS are still very good options for some builders. I think the
> HD especially.
> I was wondering if there was still builder support for these models? Can
> you still purchase pre-made parts from ZAC?? Plan updates etc?
> Seems that most builders are building the XL.
> Ron
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
> Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Rigging |
Short answer, NO LOW&SLOW John
While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator
cables cross over one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
Message 10
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| Subject: | NOT wing flutter! |
(long post)
Whoa! One needs be careful saying "wing flutter" on a list devoted to
aircraft!
In the aerospace world, flutter is a specific phenomenon defined as
"dynamic instability of an elastic body in an airstream" (from
Aeroelasticity - Bisplinghoff, Ashley and Hoffman - the standard
reference text). In a wing-type body, there is a speed *above* which
the oscillations of the wing can go unstable, that is, they get bigger
and bigger with each cycle.
The only solution for this is to either slow down, change the wing's
aerodynamic characteristics, for example by deploying spoilers or other
controls, or change the wing's structural characteristics, for example
by buckling stuff. If you are below that speed, the wing can not
flutter.
It can shake, rattle and roll for sure, but not flutter! 140 indicated
is about 150 true, which should give you plenty of margin. (I am
assuming mph. If you were going 140 knots indicated at 5000', that's
over 170 mph true, and it's a different story.)
Since you sped up and the wing did not come off, what you saw was not
flutter, but simply some excitation of the wing bending. A two inch
oscillation on a 601-length wing is not even close to being a structural
problem. The wing is stressed for +/- 6 G's meaning that it can hold 6
times the gross weight of the aircraft without any failure.
This is tested in production aircraft by loading up the wing with
distributed sand bag weights, so in a typical 601, that would be about
5000 lbs of sand on each wing. You can bet that it will deflect a lot
more than 2 inches!
Of course, it is possible to get flutter of just a control surface.
This is more likely in aircraft like a 601, which does not have mass
balanced ailerons or elevators. But again, since you sped up and this
did not get worse, it is very unlikely to have happened.
There are a number of scenarios which could lead to an oscillation like
you described, excited by the turbulence - including a low frequency
control surface vibration linked through the aileron controls to your
hand (the soft servo), a vibration caused by a structural change like a
loosening cable or control arm, feedback or other failures in the
aileron trim system, feedback in the autopilot if you have one (which
should be designed to kick off in that situation).
You should certainly check all those things and the wing attach bolts,
and whatever else you can! But it could just have been the wing and/or
aileron vibrating after being excited by the strong turbulence, like a
guitar string being strummed. Note - when you encounter airframe
vibrations, a good response is always to make small control movements
and *slow down*, instead of speeding up.
FWIW - standard disclaimers, etc.,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
(MIT '74, Ph.D. '87, all in Aerospace Engineering)
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter???? |
Hi Bill,Glad everything came out OK. Looks like you ran into some really
weird turbulence from the power-plant, giving you an "E" ticket ride.
If you were really experiencing wing or control surface flutter, your
diving and picking up speed should have exacerbated the problem with the
amplitude going divergent very rapidly, until something(s) bends or more
likely breaks off. Only saw this once in a film of a dynamic model in a
wind tunnel - once flutter started the entire model was gonzo in a
second or two. Do you recall experiencing any feed back in the
stick/rudder?In 199 hours in my XL, I have had some bumpy rides and the
airplane has handled it ok - just glad I always have my seat belt tight.
I have also had some GREAT*, almost I would have believed, GOOD*,
landings and I agree the airplane is tough. *GREAT Landing - Airplane is
still flyable. GOOD Landing - You can walk away from the
airplane.Please let us know if you find anything after your in-depth
inspection. I kind of suspect you will not find anything amiss, but if
you do it would be a good data point for all of us for tailoring our
structural inspections. Tony Graziano XL; N493TG--------Ben, maybe I
did not explain well, but it was not control flutter. The
aileron did not move independent of the wing. What occurred is the whole
wing
fluttered with aileron moving with it., best regards,
Bill------------------------- Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this
afternoon. Took a fellow with me and
just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, clear,
cool
and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to see nearby is
Lake
Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in the middle. Three
huge steam
towers that look like a nuclear power station. We flew around the lake
about
two miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could get a good look see. On the
down
wind side we flew into an invisible killer. We were doing above 140 when
we
flew into it. Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron
and all
and it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and down. I figured a
couple
seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to look around the
passenger to
see if the right wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was. I chopped
power and
did a hard diving wing over to the left and out of it. The flutter sound
was
great even over my Lightspeed AN system and the whole thing probably
last
maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control out of the snap dive, maxing
above 170
and flew slow and easy back to the field before I tested the controls.
Everything felt okay and I could see no wrinkles in the top skin so I
landed. Didn't
really have much choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no
skin
deform, no paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all
inspection
panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, controls,
etc., but
I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the wing did not
damage
something other than my pride. Two things learned. Don't fly anywhere
near a
power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away the invisible heat rises
and is
most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold weather. The other thing is the
XL is
very, very tough. Oh, there is a third thing. How could I have been so
stupid
not to know the first thing !! I am interested though in knowing why
the
wings fluttered in this thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause
this
extreme reaction? Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible
air was
streaming past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud
again.
Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Hello Craig : Can you tell me how far and which way the panel moved on the
601XL ?
My kit is of 2001vintage and I am going to instal a new panel which will
have a better layout .
I was unable to find the update showing the change .
Any help would be appreciated .
Cheers
Rick Tedford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS
>
> Actually the XL may be the worse choice in terms of future parts
> availability. That is because the XL is still evolving. I can't order many
> parts for my vintage 2000 XL kit from Zenith because the plans have
> changes.
> The instrument panel has moved, the bulkheads have changed shape, etc.
> That
> is why lately I've been acting more like a scratch builder than a kit
> builder.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> --
> 11:11 AM
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: NOT wing flutter! |
Dr. Elliot, could you perhaps comment on the practicality of VGs on a stabillator?
You may contact me off-list at pilot4profit@nospamsbcglobal.net
of course remove the nospam
do not archive
--------
Craig Smith
Future CH640 builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90843#90843
Message 14
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Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
Message 15
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BTW: is this a 601HD, HDS, XL, 701 or 801?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Tingey
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:04 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cable Rigging
While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator cables
cross over one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: NOT wing flutter! |
Please, please! Keep the discussion on the list. This is the stuff I get the
most benefit from since I haven't decided what to build yet.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of pilot4pay
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOT wing flutter!
Dr. Elliot, could you perhaps comment on the practicality of VGs on a
stabillator? You may contact me off-list at pilot4profit@nospamsbcglobal.net
of course remove the nospam
do not archive
--------
Craig Smith
Future CH640 builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90843#90843
Message 17
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| Subject: | Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
It looks like I am wrong. The instrument panel has not moved. 6B14 dated
04/01 and 03/05 show 475 from the base of the instrument panel 6B12-4 to the
firewall. But the dimensions of the forward top skin have changed. On 6C1
dated 10/06 6C1-4 is 570 by 1135. But the 05/01 plans show it as 600 by
1300. But the shorter dimension controls the firewall overhang and is
trimmed to fit the cowl.
6B15 does show that the position of the most forward vertical stiffing L
angle has moved by 45mm. The sheet dated 04/01 shows the stiffener 400 back
from the firewall. The sheet dated 07/05 shows 355.
Having three sets of plans makes for endless reading fun.
-- Craig
Message 18
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Mark
What date is the BBQ?
Roger Venables
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
Message 19
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Sun-N-Fun 2007 Webmasters BBQ
Thursday April 19 2007
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Venables
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
<roger@nwtradingpost.com>
Mark
What date is the BBQ?
Roger Venables
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Rigging |
CH601 HDS
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90882#90882
Message 21
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| Subject: | firewall grounding buss |
Hi gang
After watching Elec 101 I would like to get one of those neat Firewall earthing
buss setups. Any one know where I can buy one?
Chris
:o Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90885#90885
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: firewall grounding buss |
B and C Specialty products.
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
Look for part numbers GB24 or GB48.
>
> Hi gang
> After watching Elec 101 I would like to get one of those neat Firewall earthing
buss setups. Any one know where I can buy one?
> Chris
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ |
Mark-
C-GOXL? What happened to your HD?
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
>
> Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
> www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
> year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
> event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
> that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
> any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
> Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
> line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
> name tag is your ticket for the free event.
> I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
> I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
> list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
> time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
> have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
>
> The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
> were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
> out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
>
> Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
> tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
> 50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
>
> Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>
> --
> 1/26/2007 11:11 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Annual Inspections |
I would really appreciate a copy of this. Thanks.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides |
Hi dears builders,
I was doing my flange lightening holes in my wing spar extension and I
reversed male/female side of one hole. The male side was supposed to be on
front side view of the plane, I done one (of 2) male back side of the plane.
My question is that a big problem ? Could it be affect resistance ? Could be
acceptable or not for some part of the plane like, spar, rib, fuselage and
so on ? This is acceptable for AC 43.13 standard ? Please specify your
background and experience on that domain if you respond to that question. I
never read anything on that matter.
Thanks a lot for information.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
Message 26
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| Subject: | Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear leg? |
Looking over my third-hand 601XL kit I see that the front bungee cord pin
6G2-2 rubs on the gear leg 6G1-1. Looking at the stack-up of dimensions the
tolerances are very tight. The 5/8th inch (15.8mm) pin passes through a hole
whose center is 25mm from the firewall (see 6B8-7). So the forward edge of
the pin is 25 + 15.8/2 = 32.9mm from the firewall. The 2 inch gear leg
(radius = 25.4mm) passes through a hole in 6B7-1 that is 60mm from the
firewall bend radius. The dimensions in the bottom bearing 6G2-1 are
similar: the center of the 2 inch hole is 58mm from the rear edge of the
block. So the rear edge of the gear leg is at 60 - 25.4 or 34.6mm from the
firewall with some slop for the bend radius. 34.6 - 32.9 gives a clearance
of 1.7mm. And the bungee pulls these two pieces together, removing any slop.
Does the pin touch the leg on your plane? Is it acceptable to shift the
nylon bearing forward to create enough clearance (I've got to replace mine
due to other problems)?
I'll be asking Zenith the same question.
-- Craig
Message 27
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| Subject: | Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear |
leg?
Craig,
The lower bungee pin 6G2-2 does not touch the gear tube on my XL. I don't know
what the clearance is, but I could put a piece of .025 between the two without
any friction.
Jay in Dallas
"Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>
>Looking over my third-hand 601XL kit I see that the front bungee cord pin
>6G2-2 rubs on the gear leg 6G1-1. Looking at the stack-up of dimensions the
>tolerances are very tight. The 5/8th inch (15.8mm) pin passes through a hole
>whose center is 25mm from the firewall (see 6B8-7). So the forward edge of
>the pin is 25 + 15.8/2 = 32.9mm from the firewall. The 2 inch gear leg
>(radius = 25.4mm) passes through a hole in 6B7-1 that is 60mm from the
>firewall bend radius. The dimensions in the bottom bearing 6G2-1 are
>similar: the center of the 2 inch hole is 58mm from the rear edge of the
>block. So the rear edge of the gear leg is at 60 - 25.4 or 34.6mm from the
>firewall with some slop for the bend radius. 34.6 - 32.9 gives a clearance
>of 1.7mm. And the bungee pulls these two pieces together, removing any slop.
>
>Does the pin touch the leg on your plane? Is it acceptable to shift the
>nylon bearing forward to create enough clearance (I've got to replace mine
>due to other problems)?
>
>I'll be asking Zenith the same question.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear |
leg?
Mine, kit-built, has about 2mm clearance between 6G2-2 and 6G1-1..
Robin in AR
601XL Zen-Vair N601ZV reserved.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear
leg?
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | FBO Marty Turman |
I know there are a few guys that fly through Lakeview, Oregon and stop
by KLKV for fuel. Marty Turman has been there for years and there are
many pilots that speak of him. I am sorry to say that Marty has passed
away unexpectedly. From what I am told, Marty was complaining of a pain
in his eye and called his neighbor, who is a nurse. Marty was gone
before she arrived. Marty was an EAA technical advisor and was a big
help when I have questions about my project. Marty also let me use many
of his specialty tools. His presence will be missed by throughout the
aviation field. I am going to be really lost on my project now, since
he is the only AP within 100 miles. I do not know the future of the
airport at this time. I have decided to paint a little something on my
plane when it is done for Marty. He has been a big help to me. Marty
was building an experimental also. A Beaver TD. It showed some of the
finest work I have ever seen. You could look for some time and not find
a flaw in the wings or fuse. Services will be Monday at 2 pm here in
Lakeview. I went to the airport today and noticed a sign on his office
door that reads. "When my ship finally comes in. I will probably be at
the airport". I believe Marty was at the airport when he felt something
was wrong. I have not had to post much on this group for questions, due
to Marty's knowledge, but I am afraid that if I am to finish my project,
that will have to change. If you knew Marty, take a minute to think of
him and what he gave to aviation. I sure hate to see Marty's Cessna
sitting there waiting for him.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, Oregon
Do not Achieve
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| Subject: | Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides |
Hello Christian,
One of the wing ribs (#7) in the 601XL has 2 lightening holes flanged in one direction
and 2 holes flanged in the opposite direction. I'm assuming the part you
are talking about is like the spar tip in the XL. The purpose of the flange
is to add strength and rigidity to the part. I can't see where your mistake would
affect the integrity of your wing in any way.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90979#90979
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Sheesh. I gotta chime in here...
This is normal and has nothing to do with "flutter". I'd file this one right along
side all the "twitchy" nonsense that was going around a few months ago.
The guy hit a strong thermal due to rising heat off the steam stacks. Simple as
that. I see this regularly in my Piper Warrior.
The downwind 45 entry to my home airport runs right over the top of an oil refinery.
Lots of heat. Always enough to bump you as you go over, and once it was
enough to put me nearly on my side.
You have to expect that sort of thing when flying over a large heat source.
Regarding the wings bouncing - watch the normal flex of your wings (or look out
the window next time you're on an airliner). Push & pull on that thing in your
hands and watch what your wings do...
Suggestion: go back and fly over that power plant again. Go high and slow, watch
your altimeter, and expect some bumps. It won't be so bad now that you can
anticipate what's going to happen. Seriously, give this a shot.
- Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90989#90989
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