---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/29/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:37 AM - Canopy (Timothy Croy) 2. 04:01 AM - Re: Canopy (Trevor Page) 3. 04:47 AM - Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac (Frank Derfler) 4. 05:51 AM - Re: 701 wing addendumb..... (Geoff Heap) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 06:10 AM - Re: 701 builders top skin measurements (Tommy Walker) 7. 06:22 AM - Re: Canopy (Juan Vega) 8. 06:25 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/28/07 (Juan Vega) 9. 06:25 AM - Re: Amount of paint Required (Juan Vega) 10. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn (Juan Vega) 11. 07:04 AM - Re: Amount of paint Required (LarryMcFarland) 12. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 (Dave Ruddiman) 13. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Wing flutter! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 14. 10:02 AM - 701 Main gear weight (Tony & Peggy Pierce) 15. 11:20 AM - Re: Wing flutter! (Martin Pohl) 16. 11:46 AM - Re: Wing flutter! (Gig Giacona) 17. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 (JG) 18. 03:52 PM - Feathers vgs on 801 () 19. 05:41 PM - Re: Canopy (Timothy Croy) 20. 06:29 PM - Burger or a steak! (Rich) 21. 08:36 PM - Re: Canopy (Trevor Page) 22. 08:40 PM - Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn (David X) 23. 08:44 PM - Re: Wing flutter! (David X) 24. 11:13 PM - Landing Light Kit Assembly Grief (Brad DeMeo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:43 AM PST US From: "Timothy Croy" Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe. Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on where to get a new tinted canopy? Thanks in advance for your help, Tim ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:01 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does great work and very affordable. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote: > Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to > find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private > pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe. > > Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an > expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on > where to get a new tinted canopy? > > Thanks in advance for your help, > Tim > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:03 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac Jennifer -- I own and fly a 601XL and I've been checked out in and frequently rented the next evolution of the Katana, the DA-20. I moved into the 601 from a Grumman Cheetah and there was practically no "transition." A Grumman, being heavier, gives a tiny bit smoother ride in gusty winds, but that's being picky. The difference in avionics was a bigger step than the difference in airframe -- by far! A Grumman, like the 601, has great visibility. My Cheetah had almost exactly the same performance as my 601... although the 601 has both less payload and significantly less gas consumption. A Grumman Tiger (with 35 more HP than a Cheetah) will have a much better payload and a little better speed than most 601s (with a LOT more gas consumption). The stock Grumman AA1A Yankee ... the earliest version.. probably has poorer performance than any 601, but many Yankees were up-engined. The Grumman has free castering nose wheel. Someone commented that they wished they had that in a 601. Personally, I like the nose wheel steering better than free castering, but your problems on taxi with the Katana seem unique. I'd bet on a low tire or a bent corroded axle. Look hard at the landing gear next time you fly the Diamond. Can you check the tire pressures? I do miss the sliding canopy of the Grumman! It was so nice to be able to slide back that canopy! Look around the field for a Grumman and try to get a ride. Grumman pilots are a friendly bunch. Failing that, just fly all of the single engine rental airplanes you can get your hands on. The similarities will soon be more important than the differences. -- Frank Derfler See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 wing addendumb..... From: "Geoff Heap" Thanks Zed Geoff Heap 701/dual controls/912 rotax ordered/Looking at Enigma/ do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91260#91260 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:09 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 Good info Bill. Thanks for the feedback. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Keystone Engineering LLC wrote: i.net> Hi I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. Th e leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to wan t to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of fue l and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH. Densi ty altitude on the ground was -1500'. The plane flew good I did not notice any CG issues. Before After Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP No flaps stall None Buffet at 58, stall 50 indicated and GPS Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS ( only done once) Approach speed 50 58 Take off run Very short Much longer 250' 350' Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure. I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was go ing to bust FARs so I landed. It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls fee ls like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall. The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the "ailer on". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part of wing stalling first but still lower speeds. Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, Alaska 280 hrs Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with mor e, smaller VGs with less angle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wilcox" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: VGs feathers > JG > > I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!! > > I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now > is a nice day. > > We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this > winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capita l of > the world. > > Flight test results soon. > > Bill Wilcox > N801BW > Valdez, Alaska > 280 hrs > Waiting for a nice day > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Good info Bill. Thanks for the feedback.

do not archive

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci .net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted  by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci. net>

Hi

I got about 30 minutes  ;of weather good enough to fly this a fternoon.  The 
leading edge slats are& nbsp;off and the feather VGs are on.   It seemed to want to 
climb like& nbsp;a home sick angel.  I was light& nbsp;(1600 lbs), 30 gallons of fuel 
an d 230 pounds of me with nothing else.   I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH.   Density 
altitude on the ground was&nb sp;-1500'.  The plane flew good I did  not notice any 
CG issues.

 &nb sp;           &nb sp;           &nb sp;        Before  &nb sp;           &nb sp;          After
Cruise                          103 MPH                    111 MPH  both 
adjusted to 4500' standard temp& nbsp;at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to  150 ROP
No flaps stall     &n bsp;         None &nbs p;           &nbs p;           &nbs p;Buffet at 58, 
stall 50 indicated and  GPS
Full flaps stall     &nb sp;        None I assu med 38    45 indicated 49 GPS&nb sp;(only 
done once)
Approach speed  &nbs p;      50     &n bsp;           &n bsp;           &n bsp;58
Take off run      &nbs p;         Very short& nbsp;           & nbsp;       Much longer
  ;             ;             ;         250'  & nbsp;           & nbsp;           & nbsp; 350'
Landing distance: the breaking ac tion was poor so I did not measure.
I need to fly more in this conf iguration.  The fog moved in and I&nb sp;was going 
to bust FARs so I la nded.

It is weird flying a plane th at will actually stall!  I think it&n bsp;may be a 
better plane to teach&nbs p;the kids to fly.  They would learn& nbsp;what stalls feels 
like.  The flap erons are effective even in the stall.

The VG spacing for the outboard 3'&nbs p;is at 60 MM and the rest are a t 90 mm 
spacing.  I may change&nb sp;the spacing to 60 MM for the lengt h of the "aileron". 
This hopefully wil l still give aileron control and inner&nbs p;part of wing 
stalling first but stil l lower speeds.

Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez,&n bsp;Alaska
280 hrs
Waiting for a flying d ay.  Going to replace the VGs on  ;the tail with more, 
smaller VGs with& nbsp;less angle.





----- Original Me ssage ----- 
From: "Bill Wilcox" <keyston e@gci.net>
To: <vgstol@bigpond.net.au>
Cc: < keystone@gci.net>; <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
Sent:&nb sp;Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject : VGs feathers


> JG
>
> I& nbsp;got the feathers you sent.  Thank&nbs p;you!!
>
> I took the old VGs  ;off and put the feathers on last nig ht.  All I need now 
> is  a nice day.
>
> We have been h aving snow storm after snow storm lately.& nbsp; So far this 
> winter we  have received 250" of snow.  Thus is& nbsp;life in the snow capital of 
>& nbsp;the world.
>
> Flight test results& nbsp;soon.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Wai ======================== ======================== sp;    - The Zenith-List Email F p;List utilities such as the Subscriptions  ======================== ========================       - NEW MATRONICS WEB&n ======================== ======================== ========
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:11 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements Hello Keith, I checked on the Zenith website for 701 updates. There appears to have been an error in the drawings and it was corrected in the update notice. The CL measurement for that station is 67.5, not 62.5. Total width should be 135mm. The update notice is entitled: "Updates 5th" dated 5/03. My drawings dated 09/2003 reflect this length. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:27 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy HI Trevor, I believe we met at ZPH over the weekend. I recommend since Flight Crafters is right across the street where you parked the plane, I would start there, they are the east coast distributor for the zenith line, and could guide you on how to install it. Besides the ouch, the plane is a beautifull rendition of the HDS, nice plane! Russ's number at flight crafters is 813-690-1916. Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: Trevor Page >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 6:59 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy > >Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does >great work and very affordable. > >Trev Page >C-IDUS 601HD R912 > > >On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote: > >> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to >> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private >> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe. >> >> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an >> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on >> where to get a new tinted canopy? >> >> Thanks in advance for your help, >> Tim >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:01 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/28/07 Sorry Tiom I called you trevor. Good luck with the canopy, and stop by ZPH, besides myy plane there, there are over five Zodiac XLs being build on the field, come by some time. Juan Vega 813-784-7312 -----Original Message----- >From: Zenith-List Digest Server >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 2:58 AM >To: Zenith-List Digest List >Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/28/07 > >* > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > >Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the >two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-01-28&Archive=Zenith > >Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-01-28&Archive=Zenith > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 01/28/07: 36 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >Today's Message Index: >---------------------- > > 1. 02:43 AM - Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Jennifer Moorhouse) > 2. 03:40 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Paul Mulwitz) > 3. 05:09 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Clyde Barcus) > 4. 05:23 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Gary Boothe) > 5. 07:37 AM - Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito) > 6. 07:41 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (LarryMcFarland) > 7. 08:07 AM - Re: NOT wing flutter! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) > 8. 08:07 AM - Re: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight (LarryMcFarland) > 9. 08:25 AM - Re: vg's (James Ferris) > 10. 08:27 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Bill Naumuk) > 11. 08:29 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Brandon Tucker) > 12. 08:32 AM - Re: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight (Brandon Tucker) > 13. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (Bill Naumuk) > 14. 09:05 AM - Fuse side skins (Bill Naumuk) > 15. 09:22 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (BadBob) > 16. 09:51 AM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Brad DeMeo) > 17. 12:12 PM - Re: Fuse side skins (LarryMcFarland) > 18. 12:32 PM - VGs feathers (Bill Wilcox) > 19. 01:08 PM - Re: Fuse side skins (Southern Reflections) > 20. 01:18 PM - Re: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight (Al Young) > 21. 02:08 PM - Re: NOT wing flutter! (Tim Juhl) > 22. 02:13 PM - Re: Fuse side skins (LarryMcFarland) > 23. 02:35 PM - 701 builders top skin measurements (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) > 24. 02:36 PM - Re: Fuse side skins (Jaybannist@cs.com) > 25. 02:49 PM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. (Bryan Martin) > 26. 03:21 PM - Re: 701 builders top skin measurements (Roger Venables) > 27. 03:32 PM - Re: 701 builders top skin measurements (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) > 28. 04:13 PM - Re: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight (n801bh@netzero.com) > 29. 05:57 PM - Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS (Ron Lalonde) > 30. 06:33 PM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac (OK2AV8@aol.com) > 31. 06:33 PM - Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides (Ron Lendon) > 32. 07:31 PM - Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac (Craig Payne) > 33. 09:48 PM - Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn (David X) > 34. 09:54 PM - Re: VGs feathers on an 801 (Keystone Engineering LLC) > 35. 10:19 PM - Re: Choice of planes to prepare for Zodiac (MaxNr@aol.com) > 36. 10:43 PM - Amount of paint Required (Jonathan Starke) > > > >________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:43:32 AM PST US >From: Jennifer Moorhouse >Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I haven't >even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, currently >the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the rest of it. >Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more similar to it than >the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one >before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the >composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the >right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's normal, because >of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's >just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not >much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the >Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take >off and land. I couldn't keep it on centerline > to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only >other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, >but don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for >training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, >long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana >is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get >happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac? > > >--------------------------------- >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > >________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:40:29 AM PST US >From: Paul Mulwitz >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >Hi Jennifer, > >I wish there were an easy answer to your question. Unfortunately, >all planes are different, and it is unlikely to find two different >models that are really similar to fly. > >I have not flown a Katana, but I have flown planes with free >castering nose wheels. I find them very difficult to taxi and >particularly difficult to take off. Add a cross wind which is trying >to push your nose in the same direction as the engine torque and you >have a real handful. In that respect the XL should be much nicer to >handle and should be similar to the 150 since they both have nose >wheel steering. > >I don't have my XL flying yet, but I suspect there is a significant >difference in the behavior of XLs depending on which engine you >have. Also, like the 150, the climb rate will change significantly >depending on how many people are in the plane. Even so, an XL with a >Jabiru 3300 will climb perhaps twice the rate of a 150. It has >perhaps 30% more horsepower and 300 pounds less gross weight. > > From the standpoint of pilot training, I think all "Light" single >engine planes are roughly similar to fly. When you move up to "High >Performance" singles like the C-182 or Bonanza the pilot experience >is quite different. The extra weight of these planes mean you must >think of what you want the plane to be doing about 30 seconds in >advance of the time you actually get what you want. Light singles >respond immediately to changes in power and pitch. > >I wish we could all go out and rent XLs or 701s to prepare for flying >the planes we are building. Alas, this isn't so easy to do. As far >as I know there may be 3 XLs in the USA available for training and no >701s. This means you will be stuck flying whatever you can rent >until your own plane is finished. Indeed, I think the more >different models you fly the more you will appreciate your >XL. Perhaps the 172 is reasonably close in general behavior to the >XL, but if you load up the 172 it will be a lot more sluggish than your plane. > >I wish you luck. > >Paul >XL fuselage > > >At 02:41 AM 1/28/2007, you wrote: >>I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft >>world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am >>building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit >>more free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to >>prepare by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I >>have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one >>before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again >>yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the >>ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged >>mule. I wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering >>nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that >>particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not >>much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. >>How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The >>thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep it on >>centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with >>the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are >>172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more >>similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've >>been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I >>going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is >>heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I >>can get happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac? >> > >- > >________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 05:09:51 AM PST US >From: "Clyde Barcus" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >I learned to fly in a Grumman which has a free castoring nose wheel, I >admit it bothered me for the first few flights. However, after a few >flights it becomes second nature to drag a little brake to keep it >straight until the rudder becomes effective, I actually wish the XL was >free castoring. On the subject of handling, I am sure you will find the >XL very easy to fly and that is from a low-time pilot. The last time I >flew as pilot in command was a little more than 20 years ago and I >became comfortable with the XL very quickly, even with my lack of >experience. I am sure you will get a response from highly experienced >pilots soon, I just thought you might also want the opinion from someone >that was concerned about the same issues. > >Clyde Barcus >601 XL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jennifer Moorhouse > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:41 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > > I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft >world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building >a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to >dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying >something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started >transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been >a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite >beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the >right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's >normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, >10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out >of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot >on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly >Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep >it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with >the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are >172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more >similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been >happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to >be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the >152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with >the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac? > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > >--> http://forums.matronics.com >=========== > >________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 05:23:01 AM PST US >From: "Gary Boothe" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >There are two 601's on the west coast you can rent. If you're already flying >a 152 I would be surprised if you could not transition in less than an hour. >Let me know if you are interested in contact info. > > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > > _____ > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer >Moorhouse >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:42 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > >I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I >haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, >currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the >rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more >similar to it than the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond >Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went >up again yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the >ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I >wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the >nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe >something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to >be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also >fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep >it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the >cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I >could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more similar to the >Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been happy putting >about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a >lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac >is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it good >preparation for the Zodiac? > > > _____ > > >________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:37:22 AM PST US >From: "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" >Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > > >Hi Folks, > >After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has finally been >flown. >It was gorgeous. >Thus far I don't have the technical data , but when i do, I'll put them >here. > >You can see it here >http://www.airfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7 > > >Roberto Brito >Zodiac XL601 >Plans >Jabiru 3300 >Woodcomp SR 3000 prop. >Enigma. > >S=E3o Paulo-Brazil... > >________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:41:35 AM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > >Jennifer, >I assume you're building a tri-gear XL, so perhaps a better choice for >equivalent handling would be a Piper Cherokee PA-28. >The Zenith nose gear setup is great, compared to differential steering >with brakes. I cannot see a comparison for you with the Katana as it's >too slippery for its weight to offer the same feel in taxiing or >flying. You'll find the XL very positive on the ground and in the air >with no surprises, save an very responsive elevator. I rented a PA28 a >few months before flying my 601HDS (shorter wing), but the XL I would >suspect be closer to it than my HDS. The transition was seamless >because the 601 is lighter and is a slight bit quicker to respond. Lots >more fun than the Piper or Cessna! I'd suggest you look a flying 601 >near you and get a right seat feel for what it's about. I think you'll >be pleasantly surprised. Check out the frapper list to see who's near >your area from the link below. > >**http://www.frappr.com/zenith601** > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >do not archive > > >Jennifer Moorhouse wrote: >> I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft >> world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am >> building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more >> free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare >> by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started >> transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's >> been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the >> composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling >> hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if >> that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice >> crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe >> something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking >> has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any >> of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and >> land. I couldn't keep it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, >> but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only other rentals at >> this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, but >> don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for >> training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was >> wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight >> airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is >> lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it >> good preparation for the Zodiac? > > >________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:07:31 AM PST US >From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NOT wing flutter! > >Andy, thanks for the input and I don't doubt your a ton smart on the subject. >Still I saw what I saw, heard what I heard, and felt what I felt. I have >flown enough to have seen a few wings bend in bumps. Even put a wrinkle in a >Warrior wing once, but that's another story. If you extend your arm straight out >to >your side and move the end of your fingers up and down about 2 -3 inches as >fast as you can until they blur and hum very loud as you do this you can >recreate what I saw and heard. Some scientist I am ? Oh, well. I knew I was in > >trouble when it did not change sound when I cut power. That's when I rolled over > >to dive away and it ended somewhere in the roll and dive. I will recheck >everything and cable stretch as well. Thanks again, Best regards, Bill > >________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:07:36 AM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > > >Congratulations Roberto, >You've built a really nice aircraft and I'm looking forward to seeing >the numbers for its >performance. Nicely done! > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >do not archive > > >Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito wrote: >> >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has finally been >> flown. >> It was gorgeous. >> Thus far I don't have the technical data , but when i do, I'll put >> them here. >> >> You can see it here >> http://www.airfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7 >> >> >> >> Roberto Brito >> Zodiac XL601 >> Plans >> Jabiru 3300 >> Woodcomp SR 3000 prop. >> Enigma. >> >> So Paulo-Brazil... > > >________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:25:15 AM PST US >From: James Ferris >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vg's > > >F-16 does not have slats.... >--- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > >> Hi Larry, >> >> I have noticed many airliners (probably from Boeing) >> with both >> retractable slats and dozens (hundreds) of fixed VGs >> on each >> wing. Also, every heavy plane I have ever seen has >> fully retractable >> flaps. I am not an aeronautical engineer, but I >> must assume the >> airline designers go to great lengths to improve the >> landing and >> takeoff performance of their aluminum clouds to >> allow them to operate >> on shorter runways and improve airplane sales. >> >> I tend to agree with you that these issues are not >> so apparent with a >> 701 that barely needs a runway to start with. >> However, anyone who >> wants to spend their lives second guessing Chris >> Heintz on the best >> way to design a small airplane for inexperienced >> pilots and first >> time home builders can have my share of that >> activity. I'll just >> stick with his judgement and proven track record. >> >> Paul >> XL fuselage >> do not archive >> >> At 08:14 AM 12/23/2006, you wrote: >> >Here are some thoughts or interesting questions. >> If slats really >> >don't serve much purpose as some of you have >> claimed, then why do >> >all airliners have retractable leading edge slats? >> Why do many >> >fighters such as an F16 or even WWII fighters such >> as the ME-109 >> >have leading edge slats? How about the a Storch or >> Helio Courier? >> > > >The fish are biting. >Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. >http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > > >________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:27:06 AM PST US >From: "Bill Naumuk" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >Jennifer- > I've been told by CFIs who do a lot of "Test piloting" for >homebuilts that the closest certificated match to a 601 is a 108hp >Grumman 2 place trainer. I think it's an AA-2, but don't quote me on >that- you can find out easy enough on-line. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jennifer Moorhouse > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:41 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > > I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft >world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building >a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to >dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying >something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started >transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been >a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite >beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the >right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's >normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, >10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out >of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot >on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly >Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep >it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with >the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are >172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more >similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been >happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to >be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the >152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with >the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac? > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > >--> http://forums.matronics.com >=========== > >________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:29:27 AM PST US >From: Brandon Tucker >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > >Jennifer, > > Tell us where you are located. There might be a >Zodiac close enough to fly. > >R/ > >Brandon > > >Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. > > >________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:32:23 AM PST US >From: Brandon Tucker >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > > >Roberto, > > Nice looking plane. Please keep us updated on >performance. I suspect your canopy / turtledeck >modification will yield very nice performance numbers >paired with Jab power. Very nice job. > >VR/ > >Brandon >601 HDS / TD / Corvair >56 hours > > >Be a PS3 game guru. >Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. >http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > >________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 08:52:22 AM PST US >From: "Bill Naumuk" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter > > >All- > Since I was responsible for the observation of Dutch Roll in the YouTube >clip refered to here, let me make a public retraction. Other YouTube clips >have shown smoothly flown 601 landing patterns. It seems the "Twitchiness" >I observed was due to PIO, and is not to be confused with the no BS Dutch >Roll inherent in an A36 Bonanza. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa >----- Original Message ----- >From: "PatrickW" >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:44 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter > > >> >> Sheesh. I gotta chime in here... >> >> This is normal and has nothing to do with "flutter". I'd file this one >> right along side all the "twitchy" nonsense that was going around a few >> months ago. >> >> The guy hit a strong thermal due to rising heat off the steam stacks. >> Simple as that. I see this regularly in my Piper Warrior. >> >> The downwind 45 entry to my home airport runs right over the top of an oil >> refinery. Lots of heat. Always enough to bump you as you go over, and >> once it was enough to put me nearly on my side. >> >> You have to expect that sort of thing when flying over a large heat >> source. >> >> Regarding the wings bouncing - watch the normal flex of your wings (or >> look out the window next time you're on an airliner). Push & pull on that >> thing in your hands and watch what your wings do... >> >> Suggestion: go back and fly over that power plant again. Go high and >> slow, watch your altimeter, and expect some bumps. It won't be so bad now >> that you can anticipate what's going to happen. Seriously, give this a >> shot. >> >> - Patrick >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90989#90989 >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:05:55 AM PST US >From: "Bill Naumuk" >Subject: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > >All- > I've decided to shit-can my kinked .016 fuse side skins and make new >.025 skins. Can I do away with the gussets intended for use with .016? >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa > >________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:22:38 AM PST US >From: "BadBob" >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > >I was lucky enough to fly a 601XL a couple of weeks back. The aircraft >belongs to Pete Andersen and in located at Hillsboro, Oregon. The >workmanship on the airplane is great and everything looked straight. >Roll control is stiff (but not excessive) and pitch is sensitive. I own >a Cassutt racer that is not as pitch sensitive as the XL ( however roll >is EXTREMELY quick! :-) ). Now a friend owns a Lansair 235 that is MUCH >more pitch sensitive than the XL. I did not operate the XL in slow >flight mode but watching the control inputs while landing it appears to >handle much like a trainer. My only concern for a low time pilot would >be overcontrolling the aircraft in the pitch axes. As long as you could >keep a relaxed hand on the stick that wouldn't be a problem. Having said >this the XL trims out nicely for hands off stable flight! >I hope this helps! >Bob Johnson in Oregon > >________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:51:26 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. >From: Brad DeMeo > > >I fly a Piper Cherokee 140 rental. I find the characteristics are >closer to the Zodiac XL than the 152. I am lucky enough to be near a >Zodiac at a local training school. I go up in it as much as possible. >If you can find one within reach, go spend some time in it. It's a >real pleasure to fly!!! > >Brad DeMeo >Zodiac XL 80% done. > > >________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:12:29 PM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >Hi Bill, >I'd think you could do without them. It's a serious improvement in skin >stability, so the gussets are of doubtful value. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >do not archive > >Bill Naumuk wrote: >> All- >> I've decided to shit-can my kinked .016 fuse side skins and make >> new .025 skins. Can I do away with the gussets intended for use with .016? >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuselage >> Townville, Pa > > >________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 12:32:13 PM PST US >From: Bill Wilcox >Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers > > >JG > >I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!! > >I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now is a >nice day. > >We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this winter we >have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital of the world. > >Flight test results soon. > >Bill Wilcox >N801BW >Valdez, Alaska >280 hrs >Waiting for a nice day > > >________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:08:11 PM PST US >From: "Southern Reflections" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >larry, how hard would it be to change the fuse side skin on a complete 601 >from .016 to .025 ?? joe N101HD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "LarryMcFarland" >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:10 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >> >> Hi Bill, >> I'd think you could do without them. It's a serious improvement in skin >> stability, so the gussets are of doubtful value. >> >> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> do not archive >> >> Bill Naumuk wrote: >>> All- >>> I've decided to shit-can my kinked .016 fuse side skins and make new >>> .025 skins. Can I do away with the gussets intended for use with .016? >>> Bill Naumuk >>> HDS Fuselage >>> Townville, Pa >> >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 01:18:26 PM PST US >From: "Al Young" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > >Roberto- Congrats on a beautiful XL and a great flight. Hope you have >many more just as satisfying. >Al Young >XL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:35 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > > > Hi Folks, > > After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has finally been >flown. > It was gorgeous. > Thus far I don't have the technical data , but when i do, I'll put >them here. > > You can see it here >http://www.airfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7 > > > Roberto Brito > Zodiac XL601 > Plans > Jabiru 3300 > Woodcomp SR 3000 prop. > Enigma. > > S=E3o Paulo-Brazil... > > >________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:08:15 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOT wing flutter! >From: "Tim Juhl" > > >Bill, >You've got us all interested so please don't take our questions as criticism. >I've never seen the wings move in the strut-braced airplanes that I've owned but >when I've been bounced around violently I'm afraid I never had the presence >of mind to look at the wings until after the event had passed. > >Would you mind sharing what you experienced in the cockpit while this was happening? >Were you being thrown up and down? Was the stick jerking or reacting to >forces on the aileron cables? > >Tim Juhl > >-------- >DO NOT ARCHIVE >______________ >CFII >Champ L16A flying >Zodiac XL - Working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91120#91120 > > >________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:13:05 PM PST US >From: LarryMcFarland >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >Hi Joe, >I believe the task would be daunting but possible if you're determined. >The greatest difficulty would be getting behind the >overlapping top skins. It would be necessary to use the .016 skins as >template and you'd probably want to re-jig for square >and support, so tail feathers would have to come off too. Always a risk >of damaging holes when you're drilling more than one >layer of material because a bulkhead might be tensioned to misalign and >in drilling out rivets you could end up with a few holes >larger than you can use. Also, there is always a possibility you could >damage electrical wires drilling out rivets. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >do not archive > >Southern Reflections wrote: >> >> >> larry, how hard would it be to change the fuse side skin on a >> complete 601 from .016 to .025 ?? joe N101HD >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:10 PM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:35:04 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements >From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" > > >All 701 builders, >Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top Skin) >on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a Centerline measurement >of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall measurement of 135mm. > >What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later set of plans? >I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but if it >is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the Top Skin. > >Thanks for all of your support on this list. > >Keith >CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts >Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8% >Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms > >N 38.9947 >W 105.1305 >Alt. 9,100' > >************************************ >This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely >for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have >received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views >or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not >necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check >this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts >no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. >************************************ > > >________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:36:00 PM PST US >From: Jaybannist@cs.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins > > >Also, don't forget that the rudder cables go through holes in the side skins; the >horizontal stab brackets are on top of the skins; the aileron control rods >go through holes in the skins; the boarding step is fastened on top of the skins; >and the front side skins overlap the rear side skins. > >It might be easier to add .009" of REALLY tough paint to get to .025" (:D) > >Jay in Dallas >Definitely do not archive! > > >LarryMcFarland wrote: > >> >> >>Hi Joe, >>I believe the task would be daunting but possible if you're determined. >>The greatest difficulty would be getting behind the >>overlapping top skins. It would be necessary to use the .016 skins as >>template and you'd probably want to re-jig for square >>and support, so tail feathers would have to come off too. Always a risk >>of damaging holes when you're drilling more than one >>layer of material because a bulkhead might be tensioned to misalign and >>in drilling out rivets you could end up with a few holes >>larger than you can use. Also, there is always a possibility you could >>damage electrical wires drilling out rivets. >> >>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >>do not archive >> >>Southern Reflections wrote: >>> >>> >>> larry, how hard would it be to change the fuse side skin on a >>> complete 601 from .016 to .025 ?? joe N101HD >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuse side skins >> >> > > >________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:49:56 PM PST US >From: Bryan Martin >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. > > >Before flying my Zodiac about 99% of my flight time was in single engine >Cessnas, mostly 150/152s and 172s with some time in Cardinals and >Cutlasses and only a few hours in a low wing Beech 19. I did take a ride >in a 601HD a couple years before mine was complete and flew the approach >to landing. I had no problem flying the plane even though I was in the >right seat. The only issue was that the touchdown was a bit firmer than >I like, the Zodiacs do develop a pretty good sink rate when you pull the >power. Before test flying my Zodiac, I put several hours of flight time >in Cessna 152s and 172s. The transition to the Zodiac was not hard at all. > >If you can fly a Cessna 152 or 172 well and make good landings you >probably won't have any trouble with the 601XL. I've found that the >approach and landing speeds are nearly identical to the Cessnas. The >main differences I've noticed are that my zodiac doesn't have much >tendency to float if the landing speed is a bit high and it won't bounce >if the touchdown is a bit too firm. On my Zodiac, once the mains touch >the ground, the nose wheel comes down and the plane is done flying. It >won't skip down the runway on the mains like a Cessna when you touchdown >a little fast. I've noticed that the more recent kits have the main gear >spring reversed from the earlier kits, putting the mains a few inches >farther forward. This will change the touchdown behavior some, making it >easier to ease the nose wheel down gently. On mine you have to be ready >to pull back on the stick at touchdown to avoid dropping the nose wheel >abruptly. > >Jennifer Moorhouse wrote: >> I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. >> I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a >> 601XL, > > >-- >Bryan Martin >Zenith 601XL N61BM >Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive >Do Not Archive > > >________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:21:58 PM PST US >From: "Roger Venables" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements > > >Keith > >My plans show 67.5 cl, overall 135 > >Roger >Kenmore, WA CH701 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Keith >-AES >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:33 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements > > > >All 701 builders, >Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top >Skin) on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a >Centerline measurement of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall measurement >of 135mm. > >What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later set >of plans? >I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but if >it is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the Top >Skin. > >Thanks for all of your support on this list. > >Keith >CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts >Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8% >Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms > >N 38.9947 >W 105.1305 >Alt. 9,100' > >************************************ >This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended >solely >for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you >have >received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any >views >or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do >not >necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check >this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts >no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. >************************************ > > >________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:32:47 PM PST US >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements >From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" > >Thanks Roger, >I guess I will build a doubler that has to correct dims on it!! > >Thanks again. > >Keith >************************************************************************* >** > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Venables >Sent: Sun 1/28/2007 4:18 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements > > > >Keith > >My plans show 67.5 cl, overall 135 > >Roger >Kenmore, WA CH701 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, >Keith >-AES >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:33 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements > > > >All 701 builders, >Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top >Skin) on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a >Centerline measurement of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall >measurement >of 135mm. > >What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later >set >of plans? >I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but >if >it is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the >Top >Skin. > >Thanks for all of your support on this list. > >Keith >CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts >Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8% >Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms > >N 38.9947 >W 105.1305 >Alt. 9,100' > >************************************ >This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and >intended >solely >for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If >you >have >received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that >any >views >or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and >do >not >necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check >this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts >no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this >e-mail. >************************************ > > >************************************ >This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intende >d solely >for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If yo >u have >received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that >any views >or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and d >o not >necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check >this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts >no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mai >l. >************************************ > >________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 04:13:37 PM PST US >From: "n801bh@netzero.com" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight > >The first flight in a plane you built is a very high point in anybodys l >ife.. Congrats to you... >do not archive > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >-- "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" wrote: > > >Hi Folks, After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has fina >lly been flown.It was gorgeous.Thus far I don't have the technical data >, but when i do, I'll put them here. You can see it here http://www.ai >rfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7 Roberto BritoZodiac XL >======================= >======================= >======================= >======================= >======================= >======================= > >

The first flight in a plane you built is a very high point in a >nybodys life.. Congrats to you...

>

do not archive


BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair >.com

--"RobertoAp.RodriguesdeBrito" >wrote:

>
>

>
Hi Folks,
>
>
After almost 3,000 working hours, my&nb >sp;"Zodiac XL 601"has finally been flown.
>
It was gorgeous.
>
Thus far I don't have the technical dat >a , but when i do, I'll put them here.
>
> >
>
>
Roberto Brito
>
Zodiac XL601
>
Plans
>
Jabiru 3300
>
Woodcomp SR 3000 prop.
>
Enigma.
>
>
S=E3o Paulo-Brazil...
>
>
>=======================
>==========
>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>=======================
>==========
>tronics.com
>=======================
>==========
>
>
> > >

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>
> >________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 05:57:47 PM PST US >From: "Ron Lalonde" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS > > >Yes, and if you try and match an earlier stab to a later model XL fuselage >that presents a few glitches. (Which as I am lead to believe can be >overcome!!) >Ron > >>Actually the XL may be the worse choice in terms of future parts >>availability. That is because the XL is still evolving. I can't order many >>parts for my vintage 2000 XL kit from Zenith because the plans have >>changes. >>The instrument panel has moved, the bulkheads have changed shape, etc. That >>is why lately I've been acting more like a scratch builder than a kit >>builder. >> >>-- Craig >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live >Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA > > >________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:33:48 PM PST US >From: OK2AV8@aol.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac > >Jennifer, > >I agree with Bryan Martin but I offer another possibility. > >I flew 10 hours and 100 landings in an Evector SportStar that was for rent >locally. I was able to fly it to my home airport for the extensive pattern work > >(including simulated engine out in the pattern, landing on the adjacent grass >field) and I feel it was a good choice. Roger at Zenith suggested getting time > >in something light with quicker responses than "Wichita Spam Cans". The >Sportstar is Rotax powered with split flaps but it is very similar to the XL. >Attached is a nose to nose comparison pic I took of the Sportstar and my XL before > >its first flight in November. My inspector is also an EAA flight advisor and >he agreed the Sportstar is a good choice. I still went to Mexico and flew with > >Roger in the factory XL one last time before I flew. I don't know how I could >have been more prepared. First flight was uneventful. The 601XL is a very nice > >flying plane and if you can confidently fly a Cessna 150/152, you'll have no >problem - except getting the smile off your face! Good Luck! > >Tim Garrett >N360TM >601XL + Jabiru 3300 >10 hours - in flight testing... > >________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 06:33:48 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides >From: "Ron Lendon" > > >I made the same mistake on the spar web but because I worked so close I just stacked >the spar caps and angles to the opposite side. If it is just the wing tip >then like Dave says it probably won't make any difference. > >Here is the link to my mistake: > > >or > > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91188#91188 > > >________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 07:31:16 PM PST US >From: "Craig Payne" >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac > >I can second the recommendation for the SportStar. I did half my training in >one and soloed in one at St Charles Flying Service outside of St. Louis. > >Training in SportStars is a little more available than in XLs: Washington >state, California (north, middle and south), Colorado, Minnesota, Missouri, >Indiana, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. See > >http://www.evektoramerica.com/wheretofly.html for details. > >-- Craig > >________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:48:33 PM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery >techn >From: "David X" > > >The factory builts have been thoroughly spin tested, but the CG is is a few inches >forward of the kits and the elevator has a bit more command. That said, there >is no reason the aircraft would not recover normally from a spin so long as >CG is within range. > >-------- >Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91227#91227 > > >________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:54:56 PM PST US >From: Keystone Engineering LLC >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 > > >Hi > >I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The >leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want to >climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of fuel >and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH. Density >altitude on the ground was -1500'. The plane flew good I did not notice any >CG issues. > > Before After >Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both >adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP >No flaps stall None Buffet at 58, >stall 50 indicated and GPS >Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS (only >done once) >Approach speed 50 58 >Take off run Very short Much longer > 250' 350' >Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure. > >I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was going >to bust FARs so I landed. > >It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a >better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels >like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall. > >The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm >spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the "aileron". >This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part of wing >stalling first but still lower speeds. > >Bill Wilcox >N801BW >Valdez, Alaska >280 hrs >Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more, >smaller VGs with less angle. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Wilcox" >Cc: ; >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM >Subject: VGs feathers > > >> JG >> >> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!! >> >> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now >> is a nice day. >> >> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this >> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital of >> the world. >> >> Flight test results soon. >> >> Bill Wilcox >> N801BW >> Valdez, Alaska >> 280 hrs >> Waiting for a nice day >> > > >________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:19:18 PM PST US >From: MaxNr@aol.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of planes to prepare for Zodiac > >Excelent topic. I vote for the Grumman AA-1 series because of its superficial >resemblence to a 601XL and its inferior numbers. I admit that I have not >flown it however. Consider the following: AA-1 has three feet less wing, half > >again more wing loading,(XL=about 10, AA-1 15 to 15.5) and higher power loading. > >If you can fly that ground loving pig, you should have no problem with an XL >with its nose wheel steering. I have flown about 45 types since 1957 and vote >for the Comanche 250 as the hardest to land and still look good, Mooney Mk-21 >next. I also owned a BE-23 and Luscombe 8A. Both do not deserve their bad reps > >and if you can find one, they will be good practice also. Get with a sadistic >instructor in any of these, and a 601XL should be a walk in the park. > >Bob Dingley >Pace,FL 601XL rud & mtr mt.(Lyc and prop from an AA-1B) > >________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 10:43:55 PM PST US >From: "Jonathan Starke" >Subject: Zenith-List: Amount of paint Required > >Hi All Listers. > >I have now come to the point where painting is required: > >Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a 601XL > >How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour is required? >Assuming one colour all over. > >Your help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thnx >Jonathan Starke >912S >65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:46 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Amount of paint Required Per my last two quote for Endura Paint, two quarts of paint base, and two quarts of hardener. ONe gallon total depending on the touch and hand that sprays it. It adds approximately 18 to 20 lbs to over all weight. That is base primer, base paint and either clear coat or hardener. -----Original Message----- >From: Jonathan Starke >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 1:43 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Amount of paint Required > >Hi All Listers. > >I have now come to the point where painting is required: > >Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a 601XL > >How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour is required? >Assuming one colour all over. > >Your help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thnx >Jonathan Starke >912S >65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:49 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn how do you get more command f the AMD planes versus the Kit? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: David X >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 12:47 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn > > >The factory builts have been thoroughly spin tested, but the CG is is a few inches forward of the kits and the elevator has a bit more command. That said, there is no reason the aircraft would not recover normally from a spin so long as CG is within range. > >-------- >Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91227#91227 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Amount of paint Required Hi Jonathan, I just painted my 601HDS taking from April to November of 2006. Paint stock was 1-1/2 gallons primer, 2 gallons of base coat and 1 gallon of trim color. I primed and stripped the tail feathers twice before getting it right. The actual weight of the plane after reassembly increased 13 pounds for paint and 2 lbs for a main gear plate upgrade. Of course, a lot depends on what kind of paint you intend to use as well. I went with a waterborne catalyst-urethane from Aircraft Finishing Systems, (now Hangar21 AFS). I have a paint page on my website that may help you get the job done. Lots of pictures from booth to handling, breathing gear, paint setups for parts to finish. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/paint/full/601ezfrontleftqtr.gif Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Jonathan Starke wrote: > Hi All Listers. > > I have now come to the point where painting is required: > > *Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a > 601XL* > ** > *How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour > is required? Assuming one colour all over.* > ** > *Your help would be greatly appreciated.* > ** > *Thnx* > *Jonathan Starke* > *912S* > *65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute.* > ** ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:55 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 Bill, So, you're saying the before is with slats and the after is without slats but with VG's? Correct? Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 Good info Bill. Thanks for the feedback. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Keystone Engineering LLC wrote: Hi I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH. Density altitude on the ground was -1500'. The plane flew good I did not notice any CG issues. Before After Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP No flaps stall None Buffet at 58, stall 50 indicated and GPS Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS (only done once) Approach speed 50 58 Take off run Very short Much longer 250' 350' Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure. I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was going to bust FARs so I landed. It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall. The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part of wing stalling first but still lower speeds. Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, Alaska 280 hrs Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more, smaller VGs with less angle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wilcox" To: Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: VGs feathers > JG > > I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!! > > I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now > is a nice day. > > We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this > winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital of > the world. > > Flight test results soon. > > Bill Wilcox > N801BW > Valdez, Alaska > 280 hrs > Wai======================== ========================s p; - The Zenith-List Email Fp;List utilities such as the Subscriptions ======================= - NEW MATRONICS WEB&n======================= ======= ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:57 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wing flutter! Tim, I heard the roar/ryrthem, felt the hard vibration, left hand went to the throttle, looked to the left, saw the wing "fluttering" about 2-3 inches up and down to a blur in unison with the roar and vibration, yelled " OH SHIT !, looked back at the speed indicator, read 142 mph, pulled throttle back and nose up for a split second, no change to roar and vibration, banked hard left and dove mostly inverted, somewhere in roll and dive roar and vibration ended, pulled out, leveled off at about 170 mph, slow to about 100 mph, creep easy back to field. The whole thing from beginning of roar to end may have been 5-6 seconds. Things can move pretty fast when scared. Lesson learned, stay away, way, way from power plants, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 103 XL hours, 90 flights ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:40 AM PST US From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Main gear weight Does anybody know how much the main gear on a 701 weighs? This is for the entire main assembly: wheels, brakes, and the strut also. We're trying to determine how much weight is removed prior to adding straight floats. Thanks in advance, Tony Pierce Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing flutter! From: "Martin Pohl" Good article about flying trough turbulence by Mr. Machado: Rgds Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91358#91358 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing flutter! From: "Gig Giacona" To increase speed in a situation like this is counter to everything I know, or have ever heard about flying. I'm glad you are OK. DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91371#91371 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:08 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 Gday Bill, Well, that's interesting...... Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is the increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the Savannah) that was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb. A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's and Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the slats. What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they could be better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%. Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we have lots of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some of it to you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow....... JG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801 > > > Hi > > I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The > leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want > to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of > fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH. > Density altitude on the ground was -1500'. The plane flew good I did not > notice any CG issues. > > Before After > Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both > adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP > No flaps stall None Buffet at 58, > stall 50 indicated and GPS > Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS > (only done once) > Approach speed 50 58 > Take off run Very short Much longer > 250' 350' > Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure. > > I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was > going to bust FARs so I landed. > > It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a > better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels > like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall. > > The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm > spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the > "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part > of wing stalling first but still lower speeds. > > Bill Wilcox > N801BW > Valdez, Alaska > 280 hrs > Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more, > smaller VGs with less angle. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Wilcox" > To: > Cc: ; > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM > Subject: VGs feathers > > >> JG >> >> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!! >> >> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need >> now is a nice day. >> >> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this >> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital >> of the world. >> >> Flight test results soon. >> >> Bill Wilcox >> N801BW >> Valdez, Alaska >> 280 hrs >> Waiting for a nice day >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:55 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Feathers vgs on 801 On my 701 I moved the vgs 3 times before I found the right spot(8%). I tried 12%, 10% and finally 8%. The difference small position changes made was big. Joe ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:50 PM PST US From: "Timothy Croy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Thanks, I will check in to these. Appreciate the help, Tim On 1/29/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > HI Trevor, I believe we met at ZPH over the weekend. I recommend since > Flight Crafters is right across the street where you parked the plane, I > would start there, they are the east coast distributor for the zenith line, > and could guide you on how to install it. Besides the ouch, the plane is a > beautifull rendition of the HDS, nice plane! > Russ's number at flight crafters is 813-690-1916. > > > Juan Vega > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Trevor Page > >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 6:59 AM > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy > > > >Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does > >great work and very affordable. > > > >Trev Page > >C-IDUS 601HD R912 > > > > > >On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote: > > > >> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to > >> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private > >> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe. > >> > >> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an > >> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on > >> where to get a new tinted canopy? > >> > >> Thanks in advance for your help, > >> Tim > >> > >> > >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:47 PM PST US From: "Rich" <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> Subject: Zenith-List: Burger or a steak! Hey list, I am from the Middle TN area. I have conversed with several people in the area and have a face to put with some. I was wondering if any of you from the Middle TN area would be interested in getting together for a sit down chat/meal. No name tags no collection plates just conversations of some type! My thoughts are on a weekend and maybe at a Logan's in the Garage area or something along that line. Dutch of course since I have more parts to pay for! Anyhow, respond off line if you are interested and then we will go for a date and time. I know of myself and 2 or three already who area interested so give me a shout. This is an invitation for Zenith builders not just the 601XL. I know I kind a would like an 801 as well. Can I have 2 Planes???? Thanks for your time, Rich Simmons 601XL Waiting to receive Fuse component kit Wings and tail complete Murfreesboro, TN P.S. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:13 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy No Juan, that wasn't me. I'll take the compliment though ... ;) do not archive Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Jan 29, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Juan Vega wrote: > > > HI Trevor, I believe we met at ZPH over the weekend. I recommend > since Flight Crafters is right across the street where you parked > the plane, I would start there, they are the east coast distributor > for the zenith line, and could guide you on how to install it. > Besides the ouch, the plane is a beautifull rendition of the HDS, > nice plane! > Russ's number at flight crafters is 813-690-1916. > > > Juan Vega > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Trevor Page >> Sent: Jan 29, 2007 6:59 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy >> >> Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does >> great work and very affordable. >> >> Trev Page >> C-IDUS 601HD R912 >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote: >> >>> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to >>> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private >>> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe. >>> >>> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an >>> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on >>> where to get a new tinted canopy? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your help, >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn From: "David X" amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > how do you get more command of the AMD planes versus the Kit? AMD changed the geometry on the elevator control to give it a little more travel; thus more command under unusual attitudes during certain extreme rearward CG scenarios or when exceeding maximum gross. Keep in mind that they are building so-called "certified" aircraft for the SLSA market that come with manufacture's liability. Zenith probably has zero liability with the kit planes. Czech Aircraft Works also tested their 601XL well past the rear CG limits and also made modifications to the design. I don't know if the AMD modifications made it back into the kit designs, but the CZAW modifications definately didn't (other than prehaps the motor mount for the 912S). Someone would have to compare old drawings to more recent ones to see what exactly has changed if anything. There is so much margin for safety in the so-called limits that you have very little to worry about so long as you stay within the limits and keep your pilot skills current. Get some training in a spin-certified plane so that you get experience in basic recovery technique rather than just relying on theory. Spin training isn't required for a pilot's license anymore, but you should get the training at each bi-annual anyway (in my opinion). The 601 - like most small planes - will recover from a spin or unusual attitude without difficulty if the recovery is executed properly. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91504#91504 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing flutter! From: "David X" Good to know that the wings don't pop off at 170 MPH. Don't plan to prove you wrong, though. :wink: -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91507#91507 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Landing Light Kit Assembly Grief From: Brad DeMeo I experienced a lot of grief trying to hold together the %$@#*! landing light assembly while getting it fastened to the channel in the left wing. Every time I tried to get the bolts through the face plate and the backing plate and get the bushings and springs on and then put the darn thing up to the channel the assembly would lean and mush and the springs would fall off the bolts and boing away and the face plate would loosen and fall off and my blood pressure would rise rapidly and family would look at me in shock after a few choice words...So...I have learned a trick that works well for mounting the lights onto the channel. After drilling all holes and making the notch in the backing plates per the plans, proceed as follows: First, stand all four bolts upside down on a work bench. Second, feed the face plate over the bolts. Third, slide the bushings (11 mm each) onto the bolts. Fourth, place light in the circle of face plate with filament of bulb vertical (a hard landing will break the filament if horizontal). Fifth, place the backing plate over the bolts and over the back of the light. Then, go to Ace Hardware and purchase 8 pin clips (Servalite PC9...4 per light assembly, one for each bolt). Sixth, slide pin clips onto bolts at backing plate to hold the light assembly firm. Seventh, place springs over bolts and carefully raise the light assembly to the channel inside the wing and tighten the screws as desired/needed to focus the lights. The pin clips will save a lot of agony over trying to get the loose assembly up to the channel for final assembly. The pin clips are metal and will handle the heat near the lamp. After a dozen tries without pin clips, my first attempt with pin clips was successful and complete in less than 5 minutes! Brad DeMeo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.