Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter (japhillipsga@AOL.COM)
2. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery techn (japhillipsga@aol.com)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Wing Flutter (japhillipsga@aol.com)
4. 12:45 PM - For 701 Builders Only - Update (Jon Croke)
5. 01:56 PM - Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (Eddie G.)
6. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (Bill Naumuk)
7. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (John Bolding)
8. 03:25 PM - Re: For 701 Builders Only - Update (Chris Lewis)
9. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics (Bill Naumuk)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Avionics book or videos - any recommendation? (Nancy)
11. 06:36 PM - Precision Leveling (Nancy)
12. 07:03 PM - Re: Precision Leveling (Edward Moody II)
13. 07:51 PM - The Garangar now has a name, "Air Fiero" (Ron Lendon)
14. 11:57 PM - Re: The Garangar now has a name, "Air Fiero" (TxDave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
David, the aileron does not have a hinge. I used the standard ZAC solid skin flex
mode. Duel stick controls, Best regards, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: dxj@comcast.net
Sent: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:37 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter
Still curious what type of aeileron hinges you have.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91764#91764
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery |
techn
-----Original Message-----
From: dxj@comcast.net
Sent: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:30 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Spin 601xl any experience, caveates, unusual recovery
techn
I only know what they did for the prototype that they used for testing and
certification.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91763#91763
________________________________________________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Flutter |
John, the difference from 142 mph to 170 is 28 mph. How many seconds would your
XL at or near gross require to pick up 28 mph in a dive ? I've had my XL to 180ish
in a smooth shallow dive amd she seemed to handle well and I'm sure 20 %
more would be pushing too far, Best regards, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: jrfulp@ncia.net
Sent: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Flutter
You were in the wrong place/wrong time...the warm/cold air set-up a perfect
(bad) wing frequency harmonic...instead of diving you should have pulled
UP...slow...get your bearings...diving to 170MPH?? You should be ????
Glad your OK
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
djdormer@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Flutter
Bill:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I do have 22 years of
military flying with much of it as a flight engineer on medium transports. I
think what you experienced was severe vortexing over the wing tips due to
the hot air below the wing caused by the power plant opposed to the
relatively cool air above. The extreme vortexing phenomena produced a
"hammering effect" on the top of the wing causing it to flutter. I've
experienced similar situations during descent and final approach during
extremely hot days while flying with the Corps of Engineers in Saudi Arabia.
James D. Webber GS-11
Senior Training Specialist
Department of Attack Helicopter Training
jim.webber@eustis.army.mil
________________________________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | For 701 Builders Only - Update |
The followup video for Building your CH701 REAR FUESLAGE is now
available at:
http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Forward_Fuselage.htm
Can you believe it has a title of: FORWARD FUSELAGE !
Due to the complexity and detail of fitting/rigging the front fuse into
the rear, this is a 2 DVD set of 4 hrs duration total time.
Builders: Let's get our 701s completed and ready to fly by this summer!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
Hi,
I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts before priming
(indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking exposure
to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions on the aluminum
parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of my living room which
has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place. Am planning on brushing AFS
primer/sealer on the contact points and leaving the rest of the surfaces untreated.
I am also thinking of soaking the rivet heads in a thinned solution of
primer/sealer before riviting.
Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing alcohol?
Thanx...Eddie
---------------------------
[quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject per post
but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in a hurry.
Cleaning aluminum:
I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly not my
intent.
Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several others that
I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some solvent( MEK, acetone
and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the final prep for painting.
My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the middle
of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of failure. Normally
the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead role in these goat ropings
but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was automatically the cause,
kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA Chapter holds elections, you WILL
be an office holder if you miss.
Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean surface, waterborne
materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my limited experience
anyway).
Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and a rag
and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet with solvent.
You succeed in getting them to look a little better but you HAVEN'T taken
all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in smaller concentrations. Follow
up with a clean rag and more solvent reduces the concentrations but ....
you get the picture.
Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your hands)using
water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys called it "suspended"
'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to impress the customer)
and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the surface) to remove it ,you generally
get a squeaky clean surface first rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you are
trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the molecular
level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at a boat dock and
noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few molecules thick. You CAN'T
be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash and rinse.
Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before birth tell
me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping down a car with
a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times. What impressed ME
was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to one of these meetings and
SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint film where it had peeled off.
Takes a lot of work to build an airplane, prep it properly.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
Eddie-
I can see your problem- John's post never takes a stand other than "prep
carefully". You might want to narrow your search down by saying what type of
paint you intend to use (Enamel, lacquer, etc.) and see if anyone bites.
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie G." <silentlight@verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
> Hi,
>
> I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
> before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
>
> So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
> exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions on
> the aluminum parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of my
> living room which has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place. Am
> planning on brushing AFS primer/sealer on the contact points and leaving
> the rest of the surfaces untreated. I am also thinking of soaking the
> rivet heads in a thinned solution of primer/sealer before riviting.
>
> Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
> alcohol?
>
>
> Thanx...Eddie
>
> ---------------------------
>
> [quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject
> per post but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in
> a hurry.
>
> Cleaning aluminum:
>
> I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly
> not my intent.
> Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several
> others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some
> solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the
> final prep for painting.
> My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the
> middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of
> failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead role
> in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was
> automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA
> Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss.
>
> Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean
> surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my
> limited experience anyway).
> Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
>
> Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and a
> rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet with
> solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but you
> HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in smaller
> concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent reduces the
> concentrations but .... you get the picture.
> Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your
> hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys
> called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
> impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the
> surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first
> rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
> What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you
> are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the
> molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at
> a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few
> molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash
> and rinse.
>
> Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before
> birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping
> down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times.
> What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to
> one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint
> film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane,
> prep it properly.
>
>
> LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
>
>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
It's actually not an alternative but rather the norm in the finishing
industry. Aluminum parts going thru a conveyorized parts washer (long
tunnel with several tanks and hundreds of spray nozzles) use some pretty
aggressive chemicals sometimes depending on what they are trying to
remove but for alum that started out clean and only has smudges and oils
from our skin plus oily residue the air drill spit out Dawn or Woolite
plus water gets it down to the shine. RINSE WELL WITH AGITATION !! Skip
the alcohol, the part is already clean. DON'T dry it with compressed
air, a LITTLE oil in the air goes a long way, use a fan or a CLEAN
cotton rag.
If you were outside I'd use WO-1 or Alumaprep to put in a little tooth
for better adhesion but you can do that with the proper color of
Scotchbrite (I keep forgetting which color it is)
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions
on the aluminum parts?
Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
alcohol?
Thanx...Eddie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: For 701 Builders Only - Update |
Jon - Looks nice. Are you going to offer any combo deals for buying multiple videos
at a time?
BTW - Non-paid advertisement here. I have both of Jon's previous 701 videos (Metal
Working 101 and Scratch-building) and truly enjoyed them. Check 'em out if
you haven't.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91945#91945
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
Eddie-
Figures, 15 minutes after I post this, John comes through. Can't
complain though, eh?
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
> Eddie-
> I can see your problem- John's post never takes a stand other than
> "prep carefully". You might want to narrow your search down by saying what
> type of paint you intend to use (Enamel, lacquer, etc.) and see if anyone
> bites.
> Good building.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eddie G." <silentlight@verizon.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
>> before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
>>
>> So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
>> exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions
>> on the aluminum parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of
>> my living room which has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place.
>> Am planning on brushing AFS primer/sealer on the contact points and
>> leaving the rest of the surfaces untreated. I am also thinking of soaking
>> the rivet heads in a thinned solution of primer/sealer before riviting.
>>
>> Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
>> alcohol?
>>
>>
>> Thanx...Eddie
>>
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> [quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject
>> per post but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in
>> a hurry.
>>
>> Cleaning aluminum:
>>
>> I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly
>> not my intent.
>> Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several
>> others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some
>> solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the
>> final prep for painting.
>> My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the
>> middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of
>> failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead
>> role in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was
>> automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA
>> Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss.
>>
>> Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean
>> surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my
>> limited experience anyway).
>> Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
>>
>> Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and
>> a rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet
>> with solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but
>> you HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in
>> smaller concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent
>> reduces the concentrations but .... you get the picture.
>> Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your
>> hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys
>> called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
>> impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the
>> surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first
>> rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
>> What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you
>> are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the
>> molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at
>> a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few
>> molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash
>> and rinse.
>>
>> Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before
>> birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping
>> down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times.
>> What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to
>> one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint
>> film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane,
>> prep it properly.
>>
>>
>> LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics book or videos - any recommendation? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avionics book or videos - any
recommendation?
I suggest a visit to www.aeroelectric.com
And, of course, there is the aeroelectric list @ Matronics.
Just follow the link to the Matronics Navigator page, in the trailer
below...
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 08/12/06, Eddie G. <silentlight@verizon.net> wrote:
silentlight@verizon.net>
Greetings,
Is there one or two good books or videos that you folks can
recommend on VHF antenna basics, selecting and installating antennas on
metal-frame aircrafts, avionics, connectors, wiring, etc.?
Thanx...Eddie
Message 11
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| Subject: | Precision Leveling |
An excellent method for accurate leveling during fuselage construction.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Precision Leveling |
I just use a Smart Level mounted in a 48" beam. Works very well. Also
useful for matching blade pitch angles on a G.A. prop.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Nancy
To: Zenith-list
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Precision Leveling
An excellent method for accurate leveling during fuselage
construction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/31/2007 3:16 PM
Message 13
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| Subject: | The Garangar now has a name, "Air Fiero" |
The Garangar has been named "Air Fiero" by my every so helpful and understanding
beautiful bride, who refuses to give up her parking place inside. She does
let me use her side sometimes, but the night belongs to "SEW PRO"
Working on the LE Win Skin.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92013#92013
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/le_skin_008_192.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: The Garangar now has a name, "Air Fiero" |
I don't blame her for wanting to protect that classic Fiero. I checked your kitlog
site tonight. That's a really creative and ingenious way to bend your LE skin.
Good job Ron!
Do not archive
Dave Clay
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92028#92028
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