---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/02/07: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:05 AM - Methods of leveling (Herbert Heaton) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Wing Jig (Wade Jones) 3. 06:17 AM - Re: Wing Jig (Robin Bellach) 4. 06:27 AM - Rotax 912 differences (Ryan Vechinski) 5. 06:49 AM - Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (George Race) 6. 08:30 AM - Re: Rotax 912 differences (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 08:31 AM - Engine Info? (Don Mountain) 8. 09:24 AM - Re: Rotax 912 differences (Dennis Shoup) 9. 09:43 AM - Re: Rotax 912 differences (Ryan Vechinski) 10. 10:08 AM - Re: Wing Jig (Wade Jones) 11. 10:46 AM - Re: Rotax 912 differences (Bryan Martin) 12. 10:49 AM - Re: Wing Jig (Bryan Martin) 13. 11:18 AM - Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (Terry Phillips) 14. 11:38 AM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (Chris Lewis) 15. 11:58 AM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (John Marzulli) 16. 12:07 PM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (Jaybannist@cs.com) 17. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (C Smith) 18. 01:18 PM - Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (Gig Giacona) 19. 01:19 PM - Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (Gig Giacona) 20. 01:32 PM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (George Swinford) 21. 01:53 PM - Shelving for 601 project (George Swinford) 22. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (C Smith) 23. 02:09 PM - Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Ken Arnold) 24. 02:59 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Mark Sherman) 25. 03:14 PM - Re: Rotax 912 differences (Dennis Shoup) 26. 04:28 PM - Re: carb heat on 912uls () 27. 04:43 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (George Race) 28. 04:45 PM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (Clyde Barcus) 29. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (ZodieRocket) 30. 06:06 PM - Re: Engine Info? (Tim Juhl) 31. 06:16 PM - Re:Engine info? (MaxNr@aol.com) 32. 06:35 PM - Re: engine info? (#2) (MaxNr@aol.com) 33. 06:58 PM - Drill Bit Durability (Dave VanLanen) 34. 07:00 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (NYTerminat@aol.com) 35. 10:07 PM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Paul Mulwitz) 36. 11:34 PM - Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:10 AM PST US From: "Herbert Heaton" Subject: Zenith-List: Methods of leveling Hi List, Just thought I'd add my favorite method of leveling the fuselage, especially over long distances. I use a piece of 1/4" clear plastic tubing about 20 feet long. I just happened to have some left over from a visit to the hospital a few years ago. You know, that stuff they use to pump oxygen into your nose. I filled the tubing with model airplane fuel since it won't freeze, it's also pink so it's easy to see. I suppose anti-freeze would work as well. I clamp one end to the aft end of the fuselage side skin...then I can walk the other end to any point on the upper longerons to check for level. Simple, accurate and cheap. (Unless you live south of the equator, them all of the fluid would leak out.) DO NOT ARCHIVE Herb ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:26 AM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered what thickness the factory supplied part was . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Jig The template is just that, a template. It doesn't become part of the plane. So all that matters is its outline and that it be stiff enough for it to be dimensionally stable and used easily. Or am I completely missing the point of your question? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:11 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig In my kit the main web was .090. Robin in AR N601ZV Zen-Vair ----- Original Message ----- From: Wade Jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered what thickness the factory supplied part was . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:35 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a 912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only a couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? HP, displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have been that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) makes me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine? Ryan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:45 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and make it easy to get there: www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/ >From there you will be ask for your Username and Password. If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith. George ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:00 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences Hi Ryan, I think one is "Authorized by the manufacturer" for IFR operations. This has no real meaning when the engine is installed in an experimental airplane. Paul At 06:26 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different >engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a >912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only a >couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? HP, >displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have been >that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) makes >me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine? > >Ryan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:28 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Engine Info? I am in the process of looking for an engine for my 601XL. Does anybody have a source of information on the different Lycoming, Continental and other aircraft engine models and specs? I have been looking at Lycoming and Continental engines on Barnstormers and there seems to be a lot of different models of each for sale. Neither the Lycoming or Continental web sites seem to have much information on their engines. Don Mountain --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:56 AM PST US From: "Dennis Shoup" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences As I understand.... The certified engine is the only one Rotax approves for night or IFR flight. The non-certified engine is specifically not approved for either. There is about $10,000 price difference. The only difference I know of is the addition of carb heat. I guess it is a question of risk and liability. Unfortunately I can't find a website that has pricing for the certified engine to confirm my information. Jabiru imposes no such restrictions. Dennis On 2/2/07, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> > > Hi Ryan, > > I think one is "Authorized by the manufacturer" for IFR > operations. This has no real meaning when the engine is installed in > an experimental airplane. > > Paul > > At 06:26 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > >In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different > >engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a > >912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only a > >couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? HP, > >displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have been > >that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) makes > >me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine? > > > >Ryan > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:40 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences The price difference was only about $800 (if I remember correctly). When I get home and look at the article I'll find out for sure and let you know. ________________________________ > Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:21:54 -0500 > From: zenith601xl@gmail.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences > > As I understand.... The certified engine is the only one Rotax approves for night or IFR flight. The non-certified engine is specifically not approved for either. There is about $10,000 price difference. The only difference I know of is the addition of carb heat. I guess it is a question of risk and liability. Unfortunately I can't find a website that has pricing for the certified engine to confirm my information. Jabiru imposes no such restrictions. > Dennis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:31 AM PST US From: "Wade Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig Thanks for the information on the wing jig .I believe the .090 is what I am looking for .Do any other kit builders also have the same thickness for this part . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Bellach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig In my kit the main web was .090. Robin in AR N601ZV Zen-Vair ----- Original Message ----- From: Wade Jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered what thickness the factory supplied part was . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:07 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences The 912S is the certified 100HP engiine and thte 912ULS is the uncertified version. The price difference shown in the ad doesn't sound right to me either. I went to the website for the supplier listed in the ad and they don't even show the 912S in their list of new engines available. They do however list the 912S under available rebuilt engines. That may account for the price difference. On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Vechinski wrote: > > > > In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different > engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a > 912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only > a couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? > HP, displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have > been that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) > makes me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine? > > Ryan -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:34 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig As I recall, mine was also .090 or thereabouts. On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:05 PM, Wade Jones wrote: > Thanks for the information on the wing jig .I believe the .090 is > what I am looking for .Do any other kit builders also have the same > thickness for this part . Thanks > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:38 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit I have a pretty mundane question. I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit From: "Chris Lewis" Terry - Check out Andre's site (courtesy of ch601.org) http://home.tiscali.nl/a.vandenelsen/foto%20pagina%20's/begin/index.html (Make sure to get the complete URL) Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92396#92396 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/checking_can_begin_135.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:55 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit You won't need much shelving. I built my 12x4 bench on top of a Zenith crate, and still use the crate for storage. Another Zenith crate was turned on it's side and acts as a shelf. A peg board holds most of my tools. A small plastic tool box on wheels holds my drill and rivet gun. I put a few smaller shelves up as well to hold a radio and a holder for screws/rivets. http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2584/3102/1600/DSC00233.jpg http://bp2.blogger.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RYeWYnGvw-I/AAAAAAAAAAY/-qi6re2CiW0/s1600-h/DSC01470.JPG Good luck! On 2/2/07, Terry Phillips wrote: > > > I have a pretty mundane question. > > I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of > weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts > while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored > complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. > > How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car > garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be > great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > Just starting a 601 kit > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:32 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit Terry, I have been working in the same situation as you: half of a two car garage. I retained the current shipping crate (I am building from component kits). I placed it outside the garage and covered it with a large polyvinyl sheet, taped to prevent water penetration, but still accessible to retrieve parts as needed. It worked for me. Jay in Dallas Do not archive Terry Phillips wrote: > >I have a pretty mundane question. > >I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of >weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts >while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored >complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. > >How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car >garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be >great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. > > >Terry Phillips >ttp44~at~rkymtn.net >Corvallis MT >Just starting a 601 kit > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:51 PM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site Don't mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to the CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd. "exclusive". You can't even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO location, so I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same way. I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of our past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served by the 640 features. My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop, tools, panel, power plant systems in advance. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Craig Smith _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and make it easy to get there: www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/ >From there you will be ask for your Username and Password. If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith. George ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site From: "Gig Giacona" Sorry pilot4pay, there isn't any 640 info on the site. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92424#92424 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site From: "Gig Giacona" The 640 info seems to be here. http://www.zenair.com/builders.html -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92425#92425 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:26 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Phillips" Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit > > I have a pretty mundane question. > > I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of > weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts > while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored > complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. > > How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car > garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be > great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > Just starting a 601 kit > > > -- 3:42 PM > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:23 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving for 601 project With regard to Terry Phillips' inquiry: I framed several shelves with cheap 2x2s from Lowe's, then used the plywood from the boxes of the various kits for the actual shelving. Plywood gussets reinforce the joints in the framing. The plywood is flimsy, but the components are light, for the most part. I even built a light-duty workbench for the electrical part of the job that way. Building from component kits, I had plenty of scruffy plywood to work with. I also made 2 horizontal platforms to set on top of the wing center section stubs of my 601HD. They make it easier to kneel there while working inside the cockpit area. I realize that that's not an option for an XL. A person could rip the 2x4s from the kit boxes to obtain most of the 2x2s for framing the shelves. I sold my radial arm saw to make room for the airplane in my 2-car garage, so didn't do that. As far as sizes, 18x48 has proven pretty handy for me. George Swinford ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:41 PM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site Thanks for the link. I've already been there and the information is pretty limited in scope and detail. In the meantime, I'm learning from all of you building the other aircraft. I'm sure that a lot of Chris's design and construction methods are common to all models, just the details will be different. Thanks again. Craig Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:19 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site The 640 info seems to be here. http://www.zenair.com/builders.html -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92425#92425 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:43 PM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Dear Listers, I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach. I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm. The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engine starting to lose power and run rough. Many thanks, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:21 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Ken.=0A =0ANot sure who advised you to leave off the carb heat, sounds like Zenith. For some reason they (Zenith) have not been supporting the carb h eat/cold air intake on the 701. The Rotax 912ULS comes with a manifold tha t is just for that purpose. According to Rotax you will not get all the 100 HP you paid for on the 912ULS with out this manifold.=0A =0AZenith first s aid it wouldn't fit under the cowling, a fellow 701 builder down the street fit it under his just fine. Now they (Zenith) have developed a new cowlin g and still don't support the cold air intake. So that 100 HP you paid dea rly for, is only giving you about 90 HP on take off.=0A =0AThat is the bigg est reason I bought my Rotax and FWF from SkyShops.=0A =0AMark S.=0A701/912 ULS=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ken Arnold =0ATo: Zenith List =0ASent: Friday, Febr uary 2, 2007 2:09:14 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? =0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A =0AI am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to i ts cost and perhaps debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach.=0A =0AI am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Gol dsboro, NC. That is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying th e Continental O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm. =0A =0AThe POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engin e starting to lose power and run rough.=0A =0AMany thanks,=0AKen Arnold=0AP ===================0A=0A=0A =0A________ ___________________________________________________________________________ _=0ANever Miss an Email=0AStay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!=0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:07 PM PST US From: "Dennis Shoup" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences Rotax makes 5 versions of their 912 engine according to http://www.rotec.com/engines/4stroke.htm - 912UL, 912ULS, 912A,912F and 912S. The first 2 are non-certified. The 912A is JAR-22 certified, the 912F is FAR-22 certified and the 912S is FAR-33 certified. I could not find any prices for the certified engines. My guess is because they are only made available to OEM's. I was told by an SLSA distributor last year that the price difference was about $10,000 and the only difference was the addition of carb heat on the certified engine. This conversation was regarding the 100 HP engine. This would not be the first mistake in the Kitplanes directory. Maybe they will address it in a future issue. I recall an old (about 1 year or so) edition of Kitplanes which made reference to the certified and non-certified versions of this engine and reported a substantial price premium for the certified engine. I looked for it, but have apparently recycled it. Dennis On 2/2/07, Bryan Martin wrote: > > > The 912S is the certified 100HP engiine and thte 912ULS is the > uncertified version. The price difference shown in the ad doesn't > sound right to me either. I went to the website for the supplier > listed in the ad and they don't even show the 912S in their list of > new engines available. They do however list the 912S under available > rebuilt engines. That may account for the price difference. > > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Vechinski wrote: > > > > > > > > > In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different > > engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a > > 912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only > > a couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? > > HP, displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have > > been that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) > > makes me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine? > > > > Ryan > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:18 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carb heat on 912uls Ken I have about 70 hours on my 701 with 912 ULS and the Zenith recommended intake system. I have had one instance of carb ice and was able to get out of the icing conditions with no problem in this case. My experience is that the carbs WILL ice with the Zenith system. Joe ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:31 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? There is yet another way to heat the carbs, a very simple way using 12 VDC power. I am building a 701 with a Jabiru 2200A engine. Recently I received a carb heat unit from Jabiru USA in Tennessee as part of my FWF kit. I am very impressed with the "Heater Kit", it even comes with taps to thread the holes for mounting. I am sure that Pete at Jabiru USA can provide you with price and details. Take a look at this UK WebSite for all the details on the heater unit. http://www.jabiru.co.uk/other/carb_ice_eliminator.htm I am sure this is yet another way to make sure you do not have ANY carb ice formation, without a muffler muff and all the associated stuff that goes with it. George ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:44 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit I stored everything but sheet metal and canopy on a shelf under the work bench and on the floor under the bench. Clyde Barcus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Phillips" Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit > > I have a pretty mundane question. > > I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of > weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts > while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored > complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. > > How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car > garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be > great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > Just starting a 601 kit > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:59 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site Craig the only 640 workshop is held at Can-Zac Aviation. We support and offer the complete Zenith and Zenair line of aircraft. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C Smith Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site Don=92t mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to the CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd. =93exclusive=94. You can=92t even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO location, so I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same way. I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of our past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served by the 640 features. My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop, tools, panel, power plant systems in advance. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Craig Smith _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and make it easy to get there: HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/"www.zenithair.com/builder-secu re/ >From there you will be ask for your Username and Password. If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith. George http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com -- 2/2/2007 3:42 PM -- 2/2/2007 3:42 PM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Info? From: "Tim Juhl" I assume you've looked at the specs on the Zenith website On the certified side the Cont 0-200 and Lyc 235 are the most common. There is a link to a number of other engine choices at Tim Juhl Jabiru 3300A -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92487#92487 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:38 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Engine info? Try these: This one lists differences of many engine types. http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/index.html This one lists weights and horsepower. http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/engines.htm#Engines2 Maybe start at Ron Wattaja's home page. http://www.wattaja.com Bob D. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:09 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: engine info? (#2) This is a Lyc list and is fairly complete. http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/Lyc_Cert_list.html Bob D ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:40 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly drill bit (#30 and #20)? Thanks, Dave ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:48 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? In a message dated 2/2/2007 5:11:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arno7452@bellsouth.net writes: Ken, I have the 701 with the firewall forward package from Czech works and it came with the carb heat box. Had to use it a month ago while doing some touch and goes and some engine out practice. While taking back off from the runway she stumbled a bit,pulled the carb heat and she cleared right up. The advantage to using the box with this firewall forward package is that you are not sucking in heated air all the time, which allows you to develop more HP. Not sure what setup you have and are installing. I also recommend installing a oil cooler thermostat, this helps in getting your oil temps up quicker and not having to tape off your oil cooler in the cooler weather. I might even consider the ring mount engine mount. looks like a lot more room to get things run. Bob Spudis N701ZX/912uls/100hrs Dear Listers, I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach. I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm. The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engine starting to lose power and run rough. Many thanks, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:23 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Hi Dave, I use the threaded drill bits meant for aircraft use. I don't think they are particularly hard alloys, but they work really well and don't have problems slipping in your drill chuck as you finish each hole. I start each hole with a #40 drill. I then use #30 and optionally #20 to enlarge the holes. This means I virtually never need to sharpen or replace anything but the #40 drills. I sharpen the #40s using a bench grinder - maybe once a month - when they get dull. I am more likely to break one than to sharpen it too many times. I keep a supply of 2 or 3 spares and order more once a year or so. I am still on my first #30 and #20. I highly recommend you consider buying the right angle drill gizmo from Aircraft Spruce that comes with adapters and a few screw mount drill bits. I think the ones threaded 1/4 x 28 are the best choice. Take a look: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/tightfittoolkit.php Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 06:57 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea >of how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly >drill bit (#30 and #20)? > >Thanks, > >Dave --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:19 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit Terry, I built 633Z in a 10' x 20' tent in 7 months in 2003 from a kit. (http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/list/Zenith%20Zodiac%20CH%20601%20XL_Edwards.asp) I used a 4' x 12' work table with a shelf underneath. I put the sheet metal on the floor under the table and on the shelf. I stored some miscellaneous parts on the shelf. There were some 3 boxes of small parts that I left stored in the boxes. I stowed the finished rudder, elevator and wings on the side of the tent. When I got to the point that I could put the fuselage on the floor I moved the work table outside. Here's a picture of the work table: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/workshop_small.jpg and a picture of the plane on the floor: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/in_tent2_small.jpg see all thumbnails: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/index_thumbnail.html Later ask about my 2 failed stock mufflers, failed nose gear bearings, dirty carb stumble, brake line failure, failed starter, bad nose fork, and the Zenith grin! Hope to go flying tomorrow! Cheers, Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL 424 hours Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop do not archive On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Terry Phillips wrote: > I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of > weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts > while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored > complete kits, without completely filling up the garage. > How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car > garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be > great. Thanks for your sharing your experience. > Terry Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.