---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/04/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:14 AM - Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt (Martin Pohl) 2. 05:04 AM - Final Engine Selection (secatur) 3. 05:07 AM - Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day (ashontz) 4. 05:16 AM - Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day (ashontz) 5. 05:49 AM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Noel Loveys) 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Tommy Walker) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Final Engine Selection (Edward Moody II) 8. 07:49 AM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Gordon) 9. 08:08 AM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Tim Shankland) 10. 09:57 AM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 11. 11:35 AM - Remove the wings off CH601UL (Canatukker) 12. 12:09 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (NYTerminat@aol.com) 13. 01:56 PM - follow-up on parts search (Zed Smith) 14. 02:11 PM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 02:47 PM - Re: Remove the wings off CH601UL (LarryMcFarland) 16. 02:52 PM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Neitzel) 17. 05:57 PM - Re: Final Engine Selection (Ron Lendon) 18. 05:58 PM - Re: Remove the wings off CH601UL (Canatukker) 19. 08:21 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (David X) 20. 08:31 PM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (JohnDRead@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt From: "Martin Pohl" Thank you for all your postings. I am releived now... :D Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92767#92767 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Final Engine Selection From: "secatur" I think I have finally solved my engine selection !!! Reckon a 24 x 10 prop will be ok ???? [Twisted Evil] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92770#92770 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/saito1_188.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day From: "ashontz" sky_ranger161 wrote: > After a few failed attempts at making hat stiffeners for the main spar, I decided to try making a press die for them in much the same way I made my flanging dies. Here's what I came up with. I used the same timbertech composite material as I used for the flanging dies, and was able to fabricate the whole set using a table saw and some 5-minute epoxy from ACE hardware. I rounded all of the corners to the proper radius, and epoxied the male 45-degree press flange to the top die. To use them, I put a piece of .025 between the dies and put them under pressure with the shop press until the bend is formed, then trim the flanges to the proper size. Out comes perfectly shaped, high-quality,?repeatable hat stiffeners lookin' like the factory made 'em. > ? > Debo Cox > Nags Head, NC > XL/Corvair > Moving slow, but still moving (which is good) > > I started to design the exact same thing last night. Good to see it works. My only question, do you have any spring back in the angles or contour the exact same as the part specified in the plans? I was thinking of making one with spring back built in but it may not be necessary. I'll try this frist because building in springback is a lot more work and if it doesn't need it that'd be great. -------- CH601XL - Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92771#92771 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day From: "ashontz" Ron Lendon wrote: > Debo, > > You are the master. I had someone offer to buy my flanging dies the other day, which I declined, and I refered him to your pics. > > You might wanna take a look at how I solved bending the flaps. The final 163 degree bend was done with the 200lb gravity actuated stomp press [Laughing] I used the same gravity actuated stomp press for my rudder skin and elevator skin. Can't beat the price. -------- CH601XL - Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92773#92773 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability When drilling aluminium I tend to use a high speed.... As fast as possible and just let the bit drill the hole. I too sharpen my bits on a bench grinder and if I have time I take out the bit sharpener which is actually nothing more than a fancy bit guide for sharpening. I've even reformed heads on broken bits to get a hole drilled. I never use any pressure on the drill at all. Steel is another matter. As slow as possible, fair pressure and a good supply of cutting oil. Certainly you should always have a reasonable supply of #s 40,30 and 20 because the only time you will need another one is when the tool shop is closed. If you use a deburring tool it may be a good idea to have an extra one of those on hand too. Generally I use a 3/8 bit in my hand to de burr.... Just remember to deburr gently or you could end up chamfering your hole. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Laughlin > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 7:27 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability > > > > > Dave: > > I built both wings and half my fuselage with one drill bit of > each size. > When I lost one, I ordered two more and finished the plane. > Buy three or > four of each and don't lose them and you will be good to go. > > Scott Laughlin > CH601XL > Omaha, Nebraska > www.cooknwithgas.com > Still Polishing > > > Time: 06:58:40 PM PST US > From: "Dave VanLanen" > Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability > > Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark > idea of how > many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly > drill bit (#30 > and #20)? > > Thanks, > Dave > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo - buy and sell > with people > you know > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:55 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Lockwood Aviation http://www.lockwood-aviation.com sells a carb heat device. I think they are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S. I see it in their catalog, but their website is the most difficult site I've ever encountered when searching for parts. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:36 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Final Engine Selection That's gonna save a lot of fiberglas work. What climb, cruise and gph do you anticipate? Dred Do Not Archive (once was enough) ----- Original Message ----- From: secatur To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Final Engine Selection I think I have finally solved my engine selection !!! Reckon a 24 x 10 prop will be ok ???? [Twisted Evil] ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:38 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? I agree --- trying to navigate the Lockwood online catalog takes more patience than I have. I have their printed catalog, but for a lot of items it says to go to the online catalog for details and cost. I did order an engine from them (haven't seen it yet), and had planned on purchasing engine instruments and other misc. from them, but it was just to difficult. I've heard good things about the company, but I think they are missing out on sales because of poor website design. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Walker To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Lockwood Aviation http://www.lockwood-aviation.com sells a carb heat device. I think they are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S. I see it in their catalog, but their website is the most difficult site I've ever encountered when searching for parts. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:04 AM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Dave, I received one #20 and #30 bit with my rudder kit many years ago. My drill fell one day and broke off the end of the #30 bit, Thus I went to Sears Hardware and bought an extra of each, by the way I resharpened and still use the shortened bit. I still have them and use them. The trick is to either learn how to sharpen then freehand or buy a sharpener. Other than breakage or loss a single drill bit will last for the whole project. You will want to invest in the right angle and long bits to reach those places where you just can't get the drill in. Tim Shankland Dave VanLanen wrote: > Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of > how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly > drill bit (#30 and #20)? > > Thanks, > > Dave > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:06 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Hello fellow listers: Just a comment on resharpening these small drill bits... I don't believe the typical hobbyist can accurately resharpen drill bits except with a middle to high end sharpener, and with the capital expense involved, why bother? Freehand sharpening can only approximate the angles involved (yes, I agree small drill bits do not have to involve reducing the web and other intricate angles) and with the best of freehand sharpening, you will only get one of the cutting edges working at a time. Not a good practice where the goal is nice, round holes. For amateurs like me and others who do not have the benefit of being, or working with machinists with a LOT of gray hair earned with years of trying to accurately resharpen drill bits, I say use 'em & pitch 'em. They are cheap enough; when they stop cutting quickly, toss 'em. That being said, with high cutting speeds and low feeds (light pressure on the drill), a good quality drill bit cuts LOTS of holes. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) In a message dated 2/4/2007 11:09:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, tshank@core.com writes: Dave, I received one #20 and #30 bit with my rudder kit many years ago. My drill fell one day and broke off the end of the #30 bit, Thus I went to Sears Hardware and bought an extra of each, by the way I resharpened and still use the shortened bit. I still have them and use them. The trick is to either learn how to sharpen then freehand or buy a sharpener. Other than breakage or loss a single drill bit will last for the whole project. You will want to invest in the right angle and long bits to reach those places where you just can't get the drill in. Tim Shankland Dave VanLanen wrote: Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly drill bit (#30 and #20)? Thanks, Dave ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Remove the wings off CH601UL From: "Canatukker" He My name is Ron Smit live in chilliwack B.C. Canada, I recently bought a Zenair Zodiac 601 ul in Edmonton Alberta We are going to pick her up on the 16th of this month . My question to this forum is do I have to pay attention to a particular area when removing the wings, and how do I remove those wings? thanks for Your reply . regards Ron Smit. -------- lets go flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92848#92848 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:12 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Thanks for saying that their site is difficult. It has to be the MOST difficult site to try to order from!!!! I get so frustrated by them and hav e told them many times, but seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Do not archive Bob Spudis In a message dated 2/4/2007 10:22:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, twalker@cableone.net writes: Lockwood Aviation _http://www.lockwood-aviation.com_ (http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/) sells a carb heat device. I think the y are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S. I see it in their catalog, but their website is the most difficult site I=99ve ever encountered when searching for pa rts. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:15 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: follow-up on parts search Tommy, Regarding the Lockwood web site: You got that right; I gave up trying to use it. Lockwood is probably the most knowledgeable 912 dealer in the U.S., but the "parts search" sucketh. He produces a good print catalog. Request one. Zed/701/912/90+%/etc/please archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:45 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Hi Tracy, I respect your position on resharpening drill bits, as well as your analysis of some of the issues involved. On the other hand, I think there is something to be said for the other approach too. (Admittedly, I do have lots of grey hair.) Building an all metal airplane is mostly an exercise in drilling holes. For me, that means focusing on the hole drilling process is a good way to improve your building experience. It is also an area where a little learning goes a long way. (Remember, education is one of the primary reasons we are supposed to be building these contraptions.) I decided to learn "Free hand" drill bit resharpening a couple of years ago -- about the same time I started work on my XL. I found it relatively easy to turn a dull bit into one that drilled holes better than before. OK, maybe the angles on the bit didn't end up the same as they started. Does this really matter when holding a contest between tool steel and aluminum? Indeed, my reading on the web told me a drill should have a sharper angle for drilling soft materials than the one provided on store-bought drills which are designed to drill steel parts. My recommendation for anyone new to the drill sharpening process is this: Start with new bits. When they get dull put them aside and use a new one. After a while you will have a small collection of dull bits. You can try to resharpen these yourself. You can also get someone who knows how to do it to show you. Or, you can just throw them out. If you try to learn how to do this yourself, the only possible loss is some time. Perhaps you will renew the bits or perhaps you won't. I think there are three "Secrets" to drill bit sharpening. The first is to have a grinding wheel with a really flat surface and sharp corners at the edges. The second is to start holding the bit at the same angle as you do each side of the point. The third is to "Scrape" the bit upward as you finish the point to get the rake angle needed to make the drill actually remove metal. The last part (not a secret at all) is to inspect the point - if it comes out with the point in the middle of the bit then both sides are the same. If you try twisting the bit into a piece of wood it should dig in. In this case you have a nice new bit to make more holes in your airplane. Of course anyone can say this is too hard to learn or not worth the effort. Still, if you do you will feel good about learning a new skill and also find yourself a little better off when it comes to having the tool you need when you need it. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage >For amateurs like me and others who do not have the benefit of >being, or working with machinists with a LOT of gray hair earned >with years of trying to accurately resharpen drill bits, I say use >'em & pitch 'em. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:31 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Remove the wings off CH601UL Hi Ron, Congratulations, The UL is similar to the HD. Detachment of the wings is found at the wing joint covers where the wing bends. There are screws front center and trailing that secure the wing joint covers, usually a dozen screws holding the wing joint in place along the edges. Once removed, the electrical wires and pitot lines should be marked and separated at this joint. If provisions haven't been made, cut them after marking and duct tape them secure at the ends of the wings. You should have a screw at the rear spar that can be removed to separate each spar. It may have a plate nut or a self locking nut holding it. The front spar has 4 AN-6 bolts (3/8-inch) that secure the wings to splice plates each side. After these have been loosened, get a spare set of hands to hold the outboard end of the wing and push the bolts out. Then provide support both ends of each wing and slide the wing straight out from between the splice plates. The angles top and bottom will guide the wing off, but don't rely on them for supporting the weight of the wing with the bolts removed. If you're transporting the wings any distance, by truck internally, make hangars with carpet that will support the wings at the nose to evenly carry the structure. If you've got time, make a wing jig to support the wings on foam the length of the nose. If external trailer, better to lay them flat on soft foam support large area, 20% of the wing. Again, foam rented from an upholstery shop might do as they have slabs of the stuff. Drain your tanks of fuel, remove the battery and pitot tubes from the wing if possible and anything else that might be sensitive to roads. This advice presumes a lot on your mode of transport, but if you have a lot of ratchet straps, 8 - 10 should get you there. I have below, several links that suggest methods, but you may need a longer trailer for the wings. I did this in two trips. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/spliceplates/full/splice-plate-bolts-and-spar.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/viewleftwingjoint.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/TJH/HScentersection/full/wg2rack2.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/trailerwinching2.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/loadedcenter.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/Zenith-on-the-roadh.jpg http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/zenith-to-airport.jpg Good luck, Larry McFarland Canatukker wrote: > > He My name is Ron Smit live in chilliwack B.C. Canada, > I recently bought a Zenair Zodiac 601 ul in Edmonton Alberta We are going to pick her up on the 16th of this month . > My question to this forum is do I have to pay attention to a particular area when removing the wings, and how do I remove those wings? > thanks for Your reply . regards Ron Smit. > > -------- > lets go flying > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92848#92848 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:24 PM PST US From: "Neitzel" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability I have found one of the easiest and most accurate means of "touching up" a drill bit is a cut off wheel in my hand held Dremel. The side of the cut off wheel makes for an ultra smooth surface to work on, and because it is hand held, I can walk over to my magnifier light (have gray hair too) and steady my hands on my chest. I have pretty good results with this method. I have a couple of long drills, which I made using a quarter inch steel rod that I drilled holes in the end then brazed a smaller bit in the end. I don't want to go through the hassle of reattaching drills to these extensions so a brief touch on the cut off wheel brings them back to life. Granted using the side of the fragile cut off wheels might not be how they were intended to be used but so far I have not broken a single wheel sharpening a bit. Dick Neitzel Sayner, WI 701 Jab 2200 N963WB ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Final Engine Selection From: "Ron Lendon" That oughta be great on gas. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92895#92895 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remove the wings off CH601UL From: "Canatukker" Larry thanks verry much for the info I will have a long trailer as my new bird is an tail dragger I.m going to need 17 ft I think. if anyone has the exact messurement from main to tail wheel I would like to hear it .thanks again ,I can hardly wait to get her home From a rainy Chilliwack B.C. Ron smit p.s. here an link to some pic. http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/smitfire/?action=view¤t=1170640161.pbw -------- lets go flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92896#92896 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? From: "David X" I agree that their web site is awful. I usually just call on the phone, they take care of me. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92908#92908 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:51 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability Hello List: Drills will last longer if a small amount of lubricant is used during drilling. I use Boelube from The Yard in Wichita. Burrs after drilling are also smaller with the use of lubricant. Regards, John Building CH701 in Colorado Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.