---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/05/07: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (David Downey) 2. 05:15 AM - Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site (steveadams) 3. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Engine Info? (Don Mountain) 4. 08:24 AM - Don't follow my lead (Ron Lendon) 5. 09:20 AM - Drill Bit Durability (Bob Tezyk) 6. 09:43 AM - Re: Engine Info? (Tim Juhl) 7. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Steve Hulland) 8. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (John Marzulli) 9. 11:52 AM - FW: Rotax 912UL for sale (John and Kim Lumkes) 10. 12:16 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Gig Giacona) 11. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (NYTerminat@aol.com) 12. 01:14 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Tommy Walker) 13. 02:02 PM - Re: Drill Bit Durability (Dave Ruddiman) 14. 02:38 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (Jeffrey A Beachy) 15. 02:47 PM - Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 16. 03:37 PM - Drill Doctor (George Race) 17. 04:01 PM - Re: Drill Doctor (Dave G.) 18. 04:19 PM - 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin (Dave Ruddiman) 19. 05:15 PM - Re: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin (LarryMcFarland) 20. 05:21 PM - Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! (Ken Arnold) 21. 07:59 PM - Re: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin (Dave Ruddiman) 22. 08:03 PM - Re: Don't follow my lead (Ron Lendon) 23. 10:08 PM - Bing carb on Jab3300 (chris Sinfield) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:00 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability we used beeswax at Cessna in Wichita. warm the bit and push it into the block or spin the bit on teh side of the block. do not archive JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: Hello List: Drills will last longer if a small amount of lubricant is used during drilling. I use Boelube from The Yard in Wichita. Burrs after drilling are also smaller with the use of lubricant. Regards, John Building CH701 in Colorado Do not archive Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site From: "steveadams" Hello Craig, I built and fly a CH640 (mine is the red/white one on the Zenair update page). They used to have a rudder build class at AMD in Eastman, GA, but I don't know if that is still available. Support for the 640 comes mainly from Zenair directly, or AMD. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly at stephen.adams@hcahealthcare.com. Steve Adams N621J Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92938#92938 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:42 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Info? I have looked at the information on the Zenith website, but then when I started looking for actual engines to purchase I started coming across a bunch of different models of each of these. The Lycoming 0-235 engines generally have some more model numbers after the 0-235 that seem to indicate different horsepowers and stuff like that. And I don't know which of these would be suitable for my needs. Don I assume you've looked at the specs on the Zenith website On the certified side the Cont 0-200 and Lyc 235 are the most common. There is a link to a number of other engine choices at Tim Juhl Jabiru 3300A -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92487#92487 --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Don't follow my lead From: "Ron Lendon" Well after spending the last week or so on the LE skin I have to admit, I MADE A MISTAKE!. The skin radius was to small using the 1.75 stop blocks and I will try again tonight. This time I will make several test strips and work it through the whole process. Also I will start with 58mm blocks, just like it says on http://ch601.org/resources/Nose%20Skin/bending_a_nose_skin.htm More later. Do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92965#92965 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:25 AM PST US From: "Bob Tezyk" Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread has been the Drill Doctor. The Drill Doctor will sharpen a drill bit to a perfect point in under a minute. You will be surprised what a difference it makes to always have a sharp bit. In addition to getting better holes, there is a time savings in drilling every hole with a sharp bit. It is designed to make a perfect point and removes a minimum of metal doing it. I have had one for years and have all but stopped buying drill bits. I drill a lot of steel, so drill wear is a constant issue for me. They make several different versions starting at under $100. I got the cheap one but in retrospect, I should have opted for the lowest price one that has a replacable diamond wheel. I can tell that I am getting near the point of replacing it due to the wheel wearing out. Regards, Bob Tezyk Midlothian, TX 601XL / 3300 S/N 6-6777 Rudder Complete, Took delivery of the QB kit. bob@eaglesnestestates.org http://neo.datamatrix.com/eaglesnestestates/index.php?option=com_rsgall ery2&Itemid=28&catid=23 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Info? From: "Tim Juhl" How about the type certificate data sheets on file with the FAA? Go to http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet Search by TCDS number For Lycoming 0-235 search E-223 For Continental 0-200 search E-252 The TCDS are in pdf format so you'll need Adobe Reader available free from www.adobe.com I hope this helps! Tim Juhl -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92976#92976 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:57 AM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Lotsa dead pilots, including their passengers, who did not use carb heat. Not putting it on could lead to a life defining event. Do Not Archive -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:42 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? The 0-200 in my 150 gets carb ice if I even look at it wrong, but then again Seattle tends to have moist air in the right temperature ranges most of the year. Once in a rented 172, somewhere south of Denali/McKinley I got some bad carb ice, so bad that there was some sputtering when I applied heat. It had only been five minutes since I had last checked for carb ice. Luckily it cleared up and all was OK. Nothing will convince you more that carb heat needs to be checked often even in cruise than then impending reality of an engine failure somewhere in Alaska during the winter. -John in Seattle On 2/5/07, Steve Hulland wrote: > > Lotsa dead pilots, including their passengers, who did not use carb heat. > Not putting it on could lead to a life defining event. > > Do Not Archive > -- > Semper Fi, > Steven R. Hulland > CH 600 Taildragger > Amado, AZ > > This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies > scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help > insure virus free email and attachments. > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:45 AM PST US From: "John and Kim Lumkes" Subject: Zenith-List: FW: Rotax 912UL for sale Just passing this on in case someone is looking for a core or parts or project... Contact Dave at davedent@comcast.net for more information and pictures if interested. I think that he is asking $5K or best offer. I am only forwarding this on and have no more information than what is below. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ...the engine has just under 100 hrs on it. It was used only as a test cell engine. In the cell it was used to see if we could get 80hp at 80,000 ft. We did it with three turbos and electronic ignition and fuel injection. We saw 65hp at 90,000. After the test it was left in the cell for a good six months and never touched again till we put it in storage in a transportainer. Now it is in my hangar. It is as we took it out of the cell, without the exhaust and intake system installed. If anyone wants it they can have the removed systems. Along with the engine. It will come with a very expensive oil pump and a bunch of other hardware. The engine would make a very good short block. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? From: "Gig Giacona" If you have a carb you can get carb ice. You may have to be a member but here is an excellent article on the subject with a great chart showing how ice even if the ambient temp is over 100. http://flighttraining.aopa.org/members/student_pilot/presolo/articles/58.cfm [quote="arno7452(at)bellsouth.net"]Dear Listers, I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach. I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm. The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engine starting to lose power and run rough. Many thanks, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07 > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93013#93013 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:20 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Kevin, What are you going to do when your Rotax starts running rough and loosing power? Bob Spudis N701ZX /CH-701/912uls/100hrs/carb heat(had to use once so far) do not archive In a message dated 2/5/2007 3:17:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wr.giacona@cox.net writes: The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engine starting to lose power and run rough. Many thanks, Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? From: "Tommy Walker" Hi Bob, I decided to call Lockwood and ask about the Carb Heat Kit. The lady was very nice. She said they did sell the kit. She directed me to the manufacturer's web site http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_sa_ch.asp . She said this was in the UK, so I'm not sure what state that is [Rolling Eyes] . Lockwood sells two version, with and without a gauge, priced $295 and $325 respectively. I had a Carburetor temperature gauge on my old Cessna and it was very accurate. I included it in my instrument scan while flying. So, if anyone is interested in buying a carb heat kit from Lockwood, then this is the item. It is also on page 154 of their 2006-2007 Catalog. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Archive [quote="NYTerminat(at)aol.com"]Thanks for saying that their site is difficult. It has to be the MOST difficult site to try to order from!!!! I get so frustrated by them and have told them many times, but seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Do not archive Bob Spudis In a message dated 2/4/2007 10:22:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, twalker@cableone.net writes: > > Lockwood Aviation http://www.lockwood-aviation.com (http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/) sells a carb heat device. I think they are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S. I see it in their catalog, but their website is the most difficult site Ive ever encountered when searching for parts. > > > > > > > [b] -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93025#93025 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:22 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability I'm glad someone brought up the "Drill Doctor". I've thought about getting one for years and never did. I haven't always had the best of luck with what seems like it may be some kind of gimmick devise. I don't know about other people, but I have a lot more drill bits than the ones I use on aluminum. Larger bits are a little more expensive to throw away when they get dull. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Tezyk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:28 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread has been the Drill Doctor. The Drill Doctor will sharpen a drill bit to a perfect point in under a minute. You will be surprised what a difference it makes to always have a sharp bit. In addition to getting better holes, there is a time savings in drilling every hole with a sharp bit. It is designed to make a perfect point and removes a minimum of metal doing it. I have had one for years and have all but stopped buying drill bits. I drill a lot of steel, so drill wear is a constant issue for me. They make several different versions starting at under $100. I got the cheap one but in retrospect, I should have opted for the lowest price one that has a replacable diamond wheel. I can tell that I am getting near the point of replacing it due to the wheel wearing out. Regards, Bob Tezyk Midlothian, TX 601XL / 3300 S/N 6-6777 Rudder Complete, Took delivery of the QB kit. bob@eaglesnestestates.org http://neo.datamatrix.com/eaglesnestestates/index.php?option=com_rsgall ery2&Itemid=28&catid=23 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? From: Jeffrey A Beachy Add me to the group that finds Lockwood's web site impossible. They have been terrific on the phone, but I gave up on web orders. Cost them some sales from me as well. Jeff Beachy CH701, 85% completed Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:46 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? Looks like there are at least three approaches to carb heat for the 912S. Heated air, carb heat air box system. Hot coolant flow, see in Lockwood catalogue. Electric heat, again in Lockwood catalogue. Any experience or comments please. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:25 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Doctor I have had the Drill Doctor XP2 for about 2 years. I have not had any problems with it at all. It does have a replaceable grinding wheel, but can hardly see any wear on the wheel and have done a lot of sharpening of #30 and #40 drills. It really does a great job, nicely centered grind on the flutes every time. I also do a side cut on the flutes, it does that as a second step in the sharpening process. Makes the drills go thru aluminum just like it was not even there. I do use a high speed small air motor to drive the drills. It comes with a "training" DVD that takes you through the entire process and even shows you how to service your tool. They have them at Home Depot and sometimes they have a $20.00 rebate slip right along with them. Got mine that way! Highly recommended! George ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:42 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Doctor I was extremely sceptical about the Drill Doctor. A small grinder in a plastic housing. Well someone at work bought one to sharpen bits instead of replacing them. I took it home and put it to work one day just to see what kind of foolish gimmick it was. I now have a huge quantity of correctly sharpened bits. I hate to admit it because I still think it's a little gimmicky, but it works. It's slightly harder to get the small bits aligned properly, but I was trying the cheapest model. Maybe the others are better at this small nit. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability I'm glad someone brought up the "Drill Doctor". I've thought about getting one for years and never did. I haven't always had the best of luck with what seems like it may be some kind of gimmick devise. I don't know about other people, but I have a lot more drill bits than the ones I use on aluminum. Larger bits are a little more expensive to throw away when they get dull. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Tezyk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:28 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread has been the Drill Doctor. The Drill Doctor will sharpen a drill bit to a perfect point in under a minute. You will be surprised what a difference it makes to always have a sharp bit. In addition to getting better holes, there is a time savings in drilling every hole with a sharp bit. It is designed to make a perfect point and removes a minimum of metal doing it. I have had one for years and have all but stopped buying drill bits. I drill a lot of steel, so drill wear is a constant issue for me. They make several different versions starting at under $100. I got the cheap one but in retrospect, I should have opted for the lowest price one that has a replacable diamond wheel. I can tell that I am getting near the point of replacing it due to the wheel wearing out. Regards, Bob Tezyk Midlothian, TX 601XL / 3300 S/N 6-6777 Rudder Complete, Took delivery of the QB kit. bob@eaglesnestestates.org http://neo.datamatrix.com/eaglesnestestates/index.php?option=com_rsgall ery2&Itemid=28&catid=23 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:01 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin I know this has come up for some of the other ZAC planes, but when I took the bottom fuselage skin for my 801 out of the box I discovered that it is .016. I just assumed it would be .025. It seems like it should be heavier given the kind of use the plane was designed for. Any thoughts, anyone? Dave in Salem ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:32 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin Dave, I'd take the .016 piece and lay it over a piece of .020 (not .025) and use it for a template. .016 is noisy until you've got lots of paint on it. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Dave Ruddiman wrote: > I know this has come up for some of the other ZAC planes, but when I > took the bottom fuselage skin for my 801 out of the box I discovered > that it is .016. I just assumed it would be .025. It seems like it > should be heavier given the kind of use the plane was designed for. > Any thoughts, anyone? > > Dave in Salem ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:10 PM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Zenith-List: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! Listers, Many thanks for all the good comments regarding Carb Heat. I have discussed the issue with Lockwood and Zenith in Mexico. Here is summary of discussion with Zenith: The cowling for the CH701 maintains a relatively warm environment. If the Rotax airbox is not installed, NO carb heat is required. So, my CH701 will be using the new cowling and there will be no airbox. So, I will not install carb heat. These comments are based on discussion with Sebastian Heintz at Zenith today 2/6/2007. Sebastian indicates there are hundreds of Rotax 912s that do not have carb heat. They are doing nicely. He also estimates about 3 hp is lost by not using the airbox to draw in cold air. To the best of my knowledge, I received no comments from Zenith owners flying behind the 912 without carb heat. The carb heat upgrade can be retrofitted at a later date. It is a collar that fits on the carb and circulates cooling fluid. Fairly simple install I'm told. Again, many thanks for your interest and comments. Ken Arnold Pikeville, NC CH701 QB in process ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:11 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin Larry, I was planning on using .025 because that's what most of the rest is. I'm not disputing your suggestion but, why .020 instead of .025? Do you have any idea why the thinner material on the belly where it seems like it would need the protection? Thanks, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin > > Dave, > I'd take the .016 piece and lay it over a piece of .020 (not .025) and use > it for a template. .016 is noisy until you've got > lots of paint on it. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > Dave Ruddiman wrote: >> I know this has come up for some of the other ZAC planes, but when I took >> the bottom fuselage skin for my 801 out of the box I discovered that it >> is .016. I just assumed it would be .025. It seems like it should be >> heavier given the kind of use the plane was designed for. Any thoughts, >> anyone? >> Dave in Salem > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Don't follow my lead From: "Ron Lendon" Only needed to make one test strip the directions on CH601.org work great. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93119#93119 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/le_skin_correct_003_453.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Bing carb on Jab3300 From: "chris Sinfield" I found this on the Yahoo Jab Engine site any one had similar problems as the fuel pump that was sent with my XL kit was the 40105 Chris.. frm the site..... first engine start went well except that i had fuel leaks from the bing carb. i have a facet 40105 electric fuel pump that really overpowered the needle valve controlled by the floats. this is the pump i understand is used by many jab owners. after a short engine run without the elec. pump i shut the engine down as the manual pump was also causing fuel to leak. leaks were coming out the vent for the fuel bowl. i spoke to bing and was told that these needle assemblies come with several spring stiffnesses. i had the weakest spring assembly. bing is sending me the medium stiffness spring. bing said the stiffest spring is too stiff and not offered any more. bing said a pulolator pressure regulator is commonly installed in the fuel line. bing also said they get a lot of calls for the same problem from a lot of 40105 owners. maybe i should be looking at a facet pump of around 2-2.5 lbs. i believe they are made and would be more desireable because these lower pressured pumps have no check valves. thus no possible valve to stick. does anyone have anything to add to this or offer any fuel pressure info? and also, jim of pacific jabiru was helpful and patient with my phone calls as all of this was going on during the first start attempt. 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