---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/12/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:09 AM - 601HD for sale (soon) (Trevor Page) 2. 09:15 AM - VGs feathers on an 801 (Keystone Engineering LLC) 3. 09:29 AM - FYI - LSA Comparison and builder spreadsheet (Jake Reyna) 4. 02:04 PM - Re: Twist Throttle on stick (caspainhower@aep.com) 5. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Twist Throttle on stick (Beau) 6. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Twist Throttle on stick (Southern Reflections) 7. 04:59 PM - Re: speed brakes (David X) 8. 05:01 PM - Re: FYI - LSA Comparison and builder spreadsheet (Southern Reflections) 9. 11:27 PM - Re: 601HD for sale (soon) (hansriet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:07 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD for sale (soon) Hi folks, just a heads up to let everyone know that I'll be putting up my 601HD for sale soon. The flying season for up here doesn't really start until late April so I'm not in a rush to sell it now but invariably some people might be interested in the spring. I have a whole laundry list of things in the plane but the basics are: 80 HP 912 Czech Aircraft Works cowling system Forward opening canopy (same as the XL) 50 hours TT Full VFR panel with intercom, ICOM Radio and Garmin GPSMap 176 Price will be in the $34000 USD range Anyone interested can contact me off-list Lots of pictures here: http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/gallery/ main.php?g2_itemId=1062 Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:57 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801 Craig The suggestion was made that the tail was stalling before the wing. Adding more smaller VGs tested this theory. You are correct the stall speed did not change but I already had VGs on the tail. The VGs on the tail give you more elevator authority at very little cost. For example adding VGs to the "original" small tail for the 801 gives you more elevator authority than changing to the larger tail. 15 years ago everyone "knew" the only reason to use VGs was to correct design mistakes. Today they are used as a high lift device and to direct vortexes when desired to reduce drag. Bill Wilcox N801BW 281 hrs Valdez, Ak Time: 02:37:33 PM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801 Aren't VGs on the tail surfaces used for correcting control issues, not for changing stall speeds? Craig Smith _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keystone Engineering LLC Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801 I finally got time to add 100 VGs to my tail to see if that makes a difference. It did not seem to make a difference. Here is a summary of my testing. I only stalled the plane 3 or 4 times in each configuration. The numbers should be within a mile an hr or two. The winds have been light when I have done the testing. I used GPS speeds. To calculate air speeds at high altitudes I assumed the plane's speed would increase 3% per 1000' rise in altitude. Removed Leading Edge Slats off the CH 801 Installed home made VGs 10% of chord and at a 45 degree angle Stall clean 55 Stall dirty 43 Cruise I 108 MPH GPS 103 MPH Density altitude at 3000' +500' Cruise at 4500' Standard day 115 MPH Installed feathers at 10% of chord at 12 degrees Stall clean 51 Stall dirty 45 Cruise I 110 MPH GPS 104 MPH Density Altitude at 3000' +1500 Cruise at 4500' Standard day 113 MPH Installed Feathers at 6% of chord at 12 degrees Stall clean 50 Stall dirty 45 Cruise not measured Installed Feathers at 6% of chord at 12 degrees Removed large VGs from tail installed 100 smaller home made VGs at a 15 degree angle Stall clean 50 Stall dirty 45 Cruise I 105 MPH GPS 103 Density altitude at 3000' +1000' Cruise at 4500' standard day 114 MPH Take off and landing distances are definitely longer. They are a lot shorter than a Cessna but... If you factor the cruise to 6000' you would be 122 MPH. The plane seems slipperier. Not like a Bonanza or Mooney but more slippery that it was. Before VGs I used 50 as my final approach speed now I need to use 58 mph. Is loosing 8 mph on the bottom end worth gaining 10 mph on the top end? Bill Wilcox N801BW 280 hrs Valdez, Ak Scratching head contemplating installing fairings to lift struts, fixing gas tank leak and installing new engine driven fuel pump and electric fuel pump. Does maintenance ever end? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:49 AM PST US From: Jake Reyna Subject: Zenith-List: FYI - LSA Comparison and builder spreadsheet I get distracted from building on occasion and have decided to share some stuff with other like minded individuals. I've created a LSA Experimental Kit comparison page with similar type aircraft. It is what it is. Go to the following address to view. http://www.iflylsa.com/ And I have an Excel spreadsheet configured to track building expenses. It's commented (red tag indicates comment), with sample numbers. Feel free to use and share. http://www.iflylsa.com/BuildExp.xls If all goes well my XL will be flying sometime in April. If you have comments or questions please contact me off list, jakereyna at yahoo . com Hasta la Vista! Jake Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Twist Throttle on stick From: caspainhower@aep.com A while back Brett Ray (brett@hog-air.com) made a Harley engine conversion and put one in his 601XL with a twist throttle. It uses a friction lock and he seemed happy with it. He has since sold the plane and is no longer on the list, but if you were really curious the e-mail may still be valid. Craig N601XS Has anyone ever tried a twist throttle on the stick? - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:24 PM PST US From: "Beau" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Twist Throttle on stick Hello all, I'm a newby to the group but here is my experience with the twist throttle. A few years ago I flew an Ultralight (Aerolight 103) with a twist grip throttle incorporated into a break lever (tube, pull up for breaking) on the left side. So my left hand was twisting for throttle and flying with right. It also had a friction lock but made the twisting difficult. Although it did the job it is not intuitive as the standard throttles are. I found myself twisting in the wrong direction many times. This was not good but I had plenty of time to correct.... My opinion is the standard throttles. Oh, the factory discontinued it shortly after and went to standard throttles. Beau Dunn 6-6800 Number nine build. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of caspainhower@aep.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Twist Throttle on stick A while back Brett Ray (brett@hog-air.com) made a Harley engine conversion and put one in his 601XL with a twist throttle. It uses a friction lock and he seemed happy with it. He has since sold the plane and is no longer on the list, but if you were really curious the e-mail may still be valid. Craig N601XS Has anyone ever tried a twist throttle on the stick? - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:41 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Twist Throttle on stick worked real good... if you have a center stick. , u you twist it open to the back, just like on a bike. it helps to havea push pull cable set up carb. joe HD101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Twist Throttle on stick > > > A while back Brett Ray (brett@hog-air.com) made a Harley engine conversion > and put one in his 601XL with a twist throttle. It uses a friction lock > and > he seemed happy with it. He has since sold the plane and is no longer on > the list, but if you were really curious the e-mail may still be valid. > > Craig > N601XS > > Has anyone ever tried a twist throttle on the stick? > - > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes From: "David X" Why would the hinges be in the rear of the wing locker instead of the front. That's about the only way I could imagine the door coming open. I've taken off without fastening the wing locker door (not intentionally) and it just hugs the wing in flight. I circled back for a landing and popped them shut. No biggy. Of course, the hinges are forward. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94591#94591 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:13 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FYI - LSA Comparison and builder spreadsheet nice spread sheet. where"s the rate of climb,and the prop type tha would even more helpful.. Great job joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake Reyna" Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: FYI - LSA Comparison and builder spreadsheet > > I get distracted from building on occasion and have > decided to share some stuff with other like minded > individuals. > > I've created a LSA Experimental Kit comparison page > with similar type aircraft. It is what it is. Go to > the following address to view. > > http://www.iflylsa.com/ > > And I have an Excel spreadsheet configured to track > building expenses. It's commented (red tag indicates > comment), with sample numbers. Feel free to use and > share. > > http://www.iflylsa.com/BuildExp.xls > > If all goes well my XL will be flying sometime in > April. > > If you have comments or questions please contact me > off list, jakereyna at yahoo . com > > Hasta la Vista! > Jake > > > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. > Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD for sale (soon) From: "hansriet" That link doesn't seem to work here. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94646#94646 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.