---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/13/07: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:20 AM - Re: speed brakes (Tim Juhl) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (steveadams) 3. 05:34 AM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (ashontz) 4. 06:41 AM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (Gig Giacona) 5. 06:46 AM - Sun-N-Fun group ride share from Michigan to ZBBQ (pilot4pay) 6. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Gull-wing Doors (C Smith) 7. 06:56 AM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (ashontz) 8. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Gull-wing Doors (Jaybannist@cs.com) 9. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: speed brakes (Mike Fothergill) 10. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: speed brakes (Trainnut01@aol.com) 11. 08:15 AM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (ashontz) 12. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: speed brakes (C Smith) 13. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: speed brakes (Trainnut01@aol.com) 14. 09:23 AM - wing locker doors () 15. 09:25 AM - Re: speed brakes (Gig Giacona) 16. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Gull-wing Doors (Aaron Gustafson) 17. 12:21 PM - Re: Gull-wing Doors (ashontz) 18. 12:26 PM - Re: wing locker doors (ashontz) 19. 12:48 PM - Re: Woulda's (ashontz) 20. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: wing locker doors () 21. 02:05 PM - Re: (David Downey) 22. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: wing locker doors (Ryan Vechinski) 23. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. (David Downey) 24. 02:38 PM - Re: (Juan Vega) 25. 02:40 PM - Re: Composite Landing Gears from Aircraft Spruce (David Downey) 26. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. (Bryan Martin) 27. 03:17 PM - Re: wing locker doors (ashontz) 28. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: speed brakes (Trainnut01@aol.com) 29. 03:48 PM - Re: () 30. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: wing locker doors () 31. 04:14 PM - Re: (Southern Reflections) 32. 04:17 PM - Re: wing locker doors (Tim Juhl) 33. 05:04 PM - CH 701 failed landing attempt (blackbird) 34. 06:23 PM - Re: CH 701 failed landing attempt (Graeme) 35. 06:23 PM - Re: wing locker doors (ashontz) 36. 08:13 PM - Re: CH 701 failed landing attempt (blackbird) 37. 09:46 PM - Rivet Gun (Rodney Mills) 38. 10:28 PM - Re: Rivet Gun (David Mikesell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes From: "Tim Juhl" David, Good to know - I wondered if the area of low pressure above the wing would pull the door up at all.... glad to know it wasn't a problem. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94665#94665 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "steveadams" Here is a photo of the CH2000,CH640 cabin structure. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94669#94669 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cabin_214.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "ashontz" steveadams wrote: > Here is a photo of the CH2000,CH640 cabin structure. I see no reason why that can't be easily adaptable to the CH601XL. If you ask me the CH2000 looks just like a CH601XL except with a hardtop canopy. [img]http--www.airbum.com-pireps-CH20001.jpg[/img] Doesn't even look all that difficult to make, unless I'm missing something. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94676#94676 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "Gig Giacona" To each his own... but that big bubble canopy on the 601XL was a big selling point for me. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94691#94691 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun group ride share from Michigan to ZBBQ From: "pilot4pay" I live in central Michigan (Howell, between Lansing and Detroit). Is anyone in the area interested in a group tansport to spread the costs of rooms and transportation? If anyone has a seat available in a plane or car, I'd love to help with the costs. If necessary I can drive, but my pick-up doesn't get the best milage. Departure would be dawn on the 18th at the latest, predict 18hr drive time. I simply can't afford to make the trip on my own, but think the shared info would be worth the trip. Rooms need to be booked ASAP, or stay in Tampa or Orlando area. Camping is alternative, I have sufficient gear, but prefer a real bed. Interested parties can e-mail me direct. -------- Craig Smith Future CH640 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94694#94694 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:15 AM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors I used to monitor the RV list, and after listening to them complain about the quality of the canopy, I'm glad I've chosen to go with Zenith, not to mention not having to buck all those rivets! Looks like very high quality glass work. Craig Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:51 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors --> Here is a photo of the CH2000,CH640 cabin structure. Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cabin_214.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "ashontz" Gig Giacona wrote: > To each his own... but that big bubble canopy on the 601XL was a big selling point for me. Gig Giacona wrote: > To each his own... but that big bubble canopy on the 601XL was a big selling point for me. To each his own. I like the hardtop. Looks like a Piper Cherokee. May give a little more roll-over protection too if done right. I also don't like the idea of being trapped in a bubble upside down, you can pop the door latch (per a lot of flight manuals in prep for an emergency landing) prior to landing, especially if it's a regular front hinge door like a Cherokee. Not only that but I'd be easier and cleaner to put a couple slider windows in the thing and it also offers some measure of sun protection without giving up too much visibility. To me the hardtop just looks more like a GA airplane. I think it's cool and would probably be cheaper too. Also, it looks like something I can make and repair. Crack a fullsized bubble canopy while doing something to it and you're screwed and have to buy a new one. I also don't like the idea of having something on the plane I can't make myself or would be really hard-pressed to make. Worst case if for some reason say the smaller windshield cracked and I couldn't find another one at a reasonable price, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to make a small plexi-glass front or side windshield that it would be to make a full-sized canopy. I intend to keep this plane for a long time. If in 2030 I need a windshield and the company that made the original wasn't around I wouldn't be SOL. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94700#94700 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:06 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors The 640 may be similar to the 601XL, but look at the proximity of the spar insertion hole to the main landing gear attach bracket. It's MUCH different from the 601XL. I see quite a few, less obvious, differences in the fuselage structure. It's nopt just a 601XL with a different canopy. Jay in Dallas Do not archive "ashontz" wrote: > > >steveadams wrote: >> Here is a photo of the CH2000,CH640 cabin structure. > > >I see no reason why that can't be easily adaptable to the CH601XL. If you ask me the CH2000 looks just like a CH601XL except with a hardtop canopy. > >[img]http--www.airbum.com-pireps-CH20001.jpg[/img] > >Doesn't even look all that difficult to make, unless I'm missing something. > >-------- >CH601XL - Corvair >www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94676#94676 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:01 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes Hi; On an 601HD, the door opens to almost 45 degrees and creates a lot of drag and loss of lift. It is like losing an engine in a twin. Never turn into that side and keep the speed up right onto the ground. Forgetting to lock the door caused by distraction by spectators questions about the airplane. Mike CH-601 HDS Tim Juhl wrote: > > David, > > Good to know - I wondered if the area of low pressure above the wing would pull the door up at all.... glad to know it wasn't a problem. > > Tim > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Working on wings > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94665#94665 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:27 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes Just a thought-it sure would be easy to put warning lights on those locker doors. Carroll do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "ashontz" Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > The 640 may be similar to the 601XL, but look at the proximity of the spar insertion hole to the main landing gear attach bracket. It's MUCH different from the 601XL. I see quite a few, less obvious, differences in the fuselage structure. It's nopt just a 601XL with a different canopy. > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > "ashontz" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > steveadams wrote: > > > Here is a photo of the CH2000,CH640 cabin structure. > > > > > > I see no reason why that can't be easily adaptable to the CH601XL. If you ask me the CH2000 looks just like a CH601XL except with a hardtop canopy. > > > > [img]http--www.airbum.com-pireps-CH20001.jpg[/img] > > > > Doesn't even look all that difficult to make, unless I'm missing something. > > > > -------- > > CH601XL - Corvair > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94676#94676 > > > > > I'm sure a 640 or a ch2000 aren't just a scaled up version of a 601xl, but they are very similar looking from photos, especially before the canopy is installed. I don't see any obvious reason that a canopy from one model couldn't be adapted to another model. I guess what I'm getting at is that in either case, the canopy doesn't appear to add to the structural intengrity of the fuselage, certainly not in the XL and I would venture to guess that it doesn't add anything structurally from a design stand-point (that's needed anyway) to the CH2000 or the 640 and any additional strength it does add is just a bonus, kind of like a hardtop versus convertible car. You can put the top down or cut the hardtop off a Chrysler Seibring and it wouldn't effect the strength of the chasis because they're built on the same chasis and the structural integrity is not compromised sans a roof. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94724#94724 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:02 AM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes Better yet, a loud obnoxious game show quality buzzer type anunciator! CS do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trainnut01@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes Just a thought-it sure would be easy to put warning lights on those locker doors. Carroll do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:42 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes How about a starter interlock? CJ do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:24 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: wing locker doors It only adds .5 gram of extra ink weight to write it on your checklist. If you already have a glass panel unit, you can add check wing locker doors without any added weight. Dred ---- C Smith wrote: > Better yet, a loud obnoxious game show quality buzzer type anunciator! > CS > do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes From: "Gig Giacona" I think you might be kidding here but the thought of any starter interlock on an airplane gives me the heebee geebees. do not archive [quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]How about a starter interlock? CJ do not archive > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94749#94749 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:44 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors That $20 piece of Plexi selling for $1000 was why I modified to use flat Lexan and am now sealing the gull wing doors on my HD. Aaron Gustafson do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gull-wing Doors From: "ashontz" agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote: > That $20 piece of Plexi selling for $1000 was why I modified to use flat > Lexan and am now sealing the gull wing doors on my HD. > > Aaron Gustafson do not archive Yeah, that's way to much for a piece of formed plexiglass. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94783#94783 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors From: "ashontz" I think I'd make the door spring loaded somehow so that it stays closed even if someone forgets to latch it. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94785#94785 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Woulda's From: "ashontz" I woulda jumped into to building YEARS ago knowing how much I like it and how little it really costs. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94789#94789 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:53 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors If you're going to spring load the locker doors, wouldn't it be a better idea to spring load them OPEN? That way, they are not flopping in your way when you are loading or unloading them, and the best part is that it is painfully obvious if you have forgotten to latch them. I mean, if you start up and taxi out with the doors sprung wide open, you are probbaly not a good choice for the left seat. Dred ---- ashontz wrote: > > I think I'd make the door spring loaded somehow so that it stays closed even if someone forgets to latch it. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:02 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Has anyone use a dual stick, dual throttle setup? that is sort of what I had been thinking of (you know, a side by side tandem!) japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: Jay, I also have dual sticks in my XL and I had thought I would use the single throttle in the center somewhere. Instead I have the duals with spin friction locks. It is a little more work and $ to install two throttles, but as a right handed guy I like landing with my most coordinated hand on the stick and left hand on the go ball. If I was left handed the center throttle would be preferred for me. This question is a preference point only your taste in flying can answer. I have a couple hundred hours in 152,172 and Warriors and I always had to land left handed and I knew the other way would work better for me. Best regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300 105 hours -----Original Message----- From: Jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 2:35 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: underline; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink, .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } body { background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: 10pt; border: 0px; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose p { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: 0px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important; } --------------------------------- Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:59 PM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors The only problem with that is, IF the latch should somehow fail in flight, you WILL have a working spoiler, and I doubt one could recover and land safely from that. What about a dual action spring hinge, one that pulls the door closed when it is more that halfway closed, and pushes the door open when it is more than halfway open? I don't know what you call these, but the same principle is at work on most automobile fuel doors. Just a thought. Ryan ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:31:44 -0500 > From: dredmoody@cox.net > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors > > > If you're going to spring load the locker doors, wouldn't it be a better idea to spring load them OPEN? That way, they are not flopping in your way when you are loading or unloading them, and the best part is that it is painfully obvious if you have forgotten to latch them. I mean, if you start up and taxi out with the doors sprung wide open, you are probbaly not a good choice for the left seat. > > Dred > > ---- ashontz wrote: > > > > I think I'd make the door spring loaded somehow so that it stays closed even if someone forgets to latch it. > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:18 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. Would there be adequate trim capability if the tab were full span on both elevators? I also plan to use something other than the elevator mounted trim motor design because I do not like the unbalanced controls in the first place. Hi Tim, I understand the choice between using deep slips and flaps for creating a steep approach to landing. I am not sure either one has much advantage over the other one. Of course if you have a plane with no flaps you have no choice. I guess the slip choice can be a little unnerving on inexperienced passengers, but I am not sure if this is an advantage or disadvantage. The situation is a little different with takeoff. A little flaps - perhaps 10 degrees - can greatly shorten your ground roll and might even allow you to climb at a higher angle. This option doesn't exist on a plane with no flaps. The situation I ran into while building my XL showed me several things about the kit and plans. 1. The design has recently been changed to limit the flap deflection to 20 degrees instead of the 30 degrees the XL has had since its first prototype. This was done without any mention to the buyer community - just a change that kit and plan buyers learn about as they reach that stage of building. Perhaps the only reason for this change was to allow the elevator trim to neutralize the pitch with full flaps - something that apparently was not possible with 30 degrees of flaps. According to my current flight instructor and fellow local EAA club member, this is a very important quality for a plane to have and is indeed required for part 23 certification. His explanation talked about having a bee chase you around the cockpit on approach so you let go of the stick to defend yourself. This change certainly had nothing to do with LSA stall speeds since they are specified without the use of flaps. 2. The flap control design is very sensitive to the vertical position of the long control tube that connects the two flaps. If this tube is mounted too low (as on my first attempt) then there is a collision between the large channel the tube is mounted on and the steel tube extension on the linear motor actuator. This seems like a really bad problem to me. The location of the control tube is not specified on the prints. Instead, it is determined by a long string of events that lead to the exact location of the wing trailing edge. I plan to suggest this specification be changed to help following builders avoid the problem I had. 3. Reports from current XL owners indicate 20 degrees of flap deflection is sufficient for their flying needs and 30 is just plain overkill. I suppose that means it is reasonable to accept the new design from ZAC even though it could have been changed in a more public way. 4. As always, support from ZAC has been excellent. In this case, Caleb spent time on this problem including several communications and parts of several days of effort. Paul XL fuselage At 08:16 AM 2/9/2007, you wrote: > >If you want to lose a bunch of altitude in a hurry without >overspeeding the aircraft try a slip. I fly a Aeronca L16A which >has no flaps and don't really miss them. When I put it into a slip >it comes down like a rock (without gaining airspeed) - as soon as I >release the slip I'm back flying at my desired attitude and >airspeed. The flat side of the XL should make it slip pretty good. > >My understanding is that the flaps were added to the XL to get the >stall speeds within the light sport category. > >That said, when my plane is done I'm sure I'll use flaps on >approach. I will also experiment (at altitude) with slips with >flaps extended as well as the ability of the aircraft to hold >altitude and climb with full flaps. > >Tim > >--- Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:30 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: amd plane parked in Lantana FLA has dual stick dual throttle, flew it this week end. Dual throttle was a waste of space due to the fact that the center (copilot) throttle was more convenient than right hand on stick and left throttle for pilot. Save you self the hassle if going dual stck, and go single center throttle. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: David Downey >Sent: Feb 13, 2007 5:04 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: > >Has anyone use a dual stick, dual throttle setup? that is sort of what I had been thinking of (you know, a side by side tandem!) > >japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: Jay, I also have dual sticks in my XL and I had thought I would use the single throttle in the center somewhere. Instead I have the duals with spin friction locks. It is a little more work and $ to install two throttles, but as a right handed guy I like landing with my most coordinated hand on the stick and left hand on the go ball. If I was left handed the center throttle would be preferred for me. This question is a preference point only your taste in flying can answer. I have a couple hundred hours in 152,172 and Warriors and I always had to land left handed and I knew the other way would work better for me. Best regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300 105 hours > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jaybannist@cs.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 2:35 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: > > .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: underline; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose > .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink, .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } body { background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: 10pt; border: 0px; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose p { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: 0px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important; } > > >--------------------------------- > > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? > > > >--------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:26 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Composite Landing Gears from Aircraft Spruce I thought that these were 2 piece, left and right? no work for 601XL if 2 piece MaxNr@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have experience with this type of landing gear? Looks like a big weight saving. Click here: Composite Landing Gears from Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/compositelg.php Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:01 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. There is a mod available for linking the flap mechanism to the elevator controls using a spring. This automatically adds extra nose up trim as the flaps deploy. It involves adding an extra lever to the center of the flap torque tube and linking it through a cable and spring to the stick. It would also preclude the situation where you might have too much trim. I'd hate to have the electric trim runaway and end up with so much up trim that it becomes very difficult to hold the nose down out of the stall region. David Downey wrote: > Would there be adequate trim capability if the tab were full span on > both elevators? I also plan to use something other than the elevator > mounted trim motor design because I do not like the unbalanced controls > in the first place. > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors From: "ashontz" brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > The only problem with that is, IF the latch should somehow fail in flight, you WILL have a working spoiler, and I doubt one could recover and land safely from that. > > What about a dual action spring hinge, one that pulls the door closed when it is more that halfway closed, and pushes the door open when it is more than halfway open? I don't know what you call these, but the same principle is at work on most automobile fuel doors. Just a thought. > > Ryan > > > I thought of that but there's no good way to do it being that you need the spring to travel through the pivot of the hinge, offset of course. You'd have to have the door hinge offset and mounted about and inch or so below the wing skin. That or use one of those cabinet hinges that's has two hinges and works like a parallelogram and springs into position in both directions. I'd still be wary of it possibly snapping to the up position of the latch wasn't secure in flight and then having the thing stuck in the up position anyway. You'd need a wing tunnel to test the loads etc that it would take to snap the door up against the spring loading. Seems safer to just have it spring loaded down for double safety. You could also put a second latch on it like a car hood, pop the latch, then reach under and pop another latch to fully open it. > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:31:44 -0500 > > From: dredmoody@cox.net > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Re: wing locker doors > > > > > > > > If you're going to spring load the locker doors, wouldn't it be a better idea to spring load them OPEN? That way, they are not flopping in your way when you are loading or unloading them, and the best part is that it is painfully obvious if you have forgotten to latch them. I mean, if you start up and taxi out with the doors sprung wide open, you are probbaly not a good choice for the left seat. > > > > Dred > > > > ---- ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think I'd make the door spring loaded somehow so that it stays closed even if someone forgets to latch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94837#94837 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:39 PM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: speed brakes Just kidding. CJ do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:45 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Since I'm doing dual sticks, I understand the pros and cons of doing that. What I don't understand is why you would install dual sticks AND dual throttles. When you go the dual stick route, the part of the console that extends forward from the armrest and then up to the bottom of the panel is not interferred with by the stick anymore (as it was with the center stick). That makes it the perfect loctaion for a single throttle that is is easy reach from both seats. So again, why complicate the situation with dual throttles? Dred ---- David Downey wrote: > Has anyone use a dual stick, dual throttle setup? that is sort of what I had been thinking of (you know, a side by side tandem!) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:54 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors There is not a single latch to fail on the wing locker doors is there? There are multiple D-Zus fasteners or Cam-Locs or whatever. Is there really a chance of such a multiple failure inflight? Still the best route is a complete checklist and a dependable routine. Dred ---- Ryan Vechinski wrote: > > > The only problem with that is, IF the latch should somehow fail in flight, you WILL have a working spoiler, and I doubt one could recover and land safely from that. > > What about a dual action spring hinge, one that pulls the door closed when it is more that halfway closed, and pushes the door open when it is more than halfway open? I don't know what you call these, but the same principle is at work on most automobile fuel doors. Just a thought. > > Ryan ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:00 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: I second that ..... joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: > > amd plane parked in Lantana FLA has dual stick dual throttle, flew it > this week end. Dual throttle was a waste of space due to the fact that > the center (copilot) throttle was more convenient than right hand on stick > and left throttle for pilot. Save you self the hassle if going dual stck, > and go single center throttle. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: David Downey >>Sent: Feb 13, 2007 5:04 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: >> >>Has anyone use a dual stick, dual throttle setup? that is sort of what I >>had been thinking of (you know, a side by side tandem!) >> >>japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: Jay, I also have dual sticks in my XL and I >>had thought I would use the single throttle in the center somewhere. >>Instead I have the duals with spin friction locks. It is a little more >>work and $ to install two throttles, but as a right handed guy I like >>landing with my most coordinated hand on the stick and left hand on the go >>ball. If I was left handed the center throttle would be preferred for me. >>This question is a preference point only your taste in flying can answer. >>I have a couple hundred hours in 152,172 and Warriors and I always had to >>land left handed and I knew the other way would work better for me. Best >>regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300 105 hours >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jaybannist@cs.com >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Sent: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 2:35 PM >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: >> >> .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, >> Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; >> background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: >> 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } >> .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid >> #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title >> { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px >> 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; >> color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: >> F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; >> color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, >> .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } >> .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; >> text-decoration: underline; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose >> .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink, .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { >> height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } body { >> background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: >> 10pt; border: 0px; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose p { margin: 0px; >> padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: >> px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; >> background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid >> #DADAD6 !important; } >>building 601XL with dual sticks and I am planning to use a single, >>centrally mounted throttle. Jay in Dallas Do not archive Hans van >>van Riet > >Hi Gang, > >I just ordered the Rudder >>starter kit to see if I'm fit to build a >601Xl (preferably on >>amphibian floats). >I've been studying tons of web resources and admired >>many projects. >One thing strikes me as odd though and maybe your >>collective wisdom >can shed some light on this: > >I see double >>throttles on many panels. Why is this done? Would one >central throttle >>with the dual stick option not be sufficient? > >Thanks, > >Hans > > >> > > > > >> >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> Dave Downey >> Harleysville (SE) PA >> Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors From: "Tim Juhl" RE: Dzus fasteners - years ago I used to copilot a B25 around to airshows. The cowling sections and various access panels were held on by dzus fasteners. After several decades of shaking some of them were worn and it was not unusual to be flying with a few missing (we carried a bag of spares). It was never a problem as the remaining fasteners would hold it on. The six dzus fasteners on the baggage door are more than enough, even if you forget to tighten a couple. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94862#94862 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 failed landing attempt From: "blackbird" Amazing that these planes want to fly so bad... My hangar buddy has put his 701 in the ground on a hard landing.... 912S engine mount bent Nose wheel bent Right wing leading edge slat bent with wingtip end broke.. Can anyone tell us where to get a leading edge slat for the right wing... Neither of us are builders....He would like to buy one... Thanks, Wayne McCullough Eaa chapter 330 president Briar Patch airfield (9GA1) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94874#94874 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:17 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 failed landing attempt With the damage you describe I would call it a crash landing or a botched landing certainly not a hard landing. The old saying goes a bad workman always blames his tools!! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "blackbird" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 failed landing attempt > > Amazing that these planes want to fly so bad... > > My hangar buddy has put his 701 in the ground on a hard landing.... > > 912S engine mount bent > > Nose wheel bent > > Right wing leading edge slat bent with wingtip end broke.. > > Can anyone tell us where to get a leading edge slat for the right wing... > > Neither of us are builders....He would like to buy one... > > Thanks, > > Wayne McCullough > Eaa chapter 330 president > Briar Patch airfield (9GA1) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94874#94874 > > > -- 12/02/2007 > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: wing locker doors From: "ashontz" If I go with wing lockers I'll have the multiple fasteners and the spring action close, and the double latch. I don't want any unintended flight surfaces (spoilers) sticking up. Everyone else is welcome to do whatever they're comfortable with. That's what I'd be comfortable with. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94894#94894 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH 701 failed landing attempt From: "blackbird" I really am amazed how tough this aircraft is..........even when the engine mount bent.........The prop (warp drive) sustained only a scratching of the prop tips.... The nose wheel bent back and did not even hurt the engine exhaust....The main nosewheel rod...did NOT bend.........Good grief thats tough......... Oh yeah........Just had the bubble doors installed and a fresh annual...WAS running great..........More gusty wind is what I am told. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94906#94906 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:49 PM PST US From: Rodney Mills Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Listers, I purchased the rivet gun from Zenith and have used it to build with up to now. I have always had trouble with the recoil and creating smiley's even with pressure set as low as possible and flow controls being used. I recently purchased the gun from Harbor Freight and tried it today installing wing skins. This gun has very little or no recoil, no bounce and not a smiley on the entire skin. The Harbor Freight gun is not as comfortable to use and the air line is in an awkward position but the results in my case were far superior to my Zenith supplied gun. I will be buying another one of the Harbor Freight guns. If anyone is interested they are in the current sale catalog for $19.99. What a deal , What a deal. Just thought if anyone was looking for their first gun or a spare this is worth looking at. I paid over $70 for Zenith gun and would not buy again. Inquiring minds may want to know. Rodney Mills Northport, Al 601XL/ Corvair ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:38 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun I have been using Harbor Freight rivet pullers for years. I have even pulled Cherry #6 with them repairing working rivets on DeHavilland Twin Otter struts. Best deal out there, my oldest one is 4 years old and still working without a problem. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodney Mills" Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun > > Listers, > I purchased the rivet gun from Zenith and have used it to build with up to > now. I have always had trouble with the recoil and creating smiley's even > with pressure set as low as possible and flow controls being used. I > recently purchased the gun from Harbor Freight and tried it today > installing wing skins. This gun has very little or no recoil, no bounce > and not a smiley on the entire skin. The Harbor Freight gun is not as > comfortable to use and the air line is in an awkward position but the > results in my case were far superior to my Zenith supplied gun. I will be > buying another one of the Harbor Freight guns. If anyone is interested > they are in the current sale catalog for $19.99. What a deal , What a > deal. Just thought if anyone was looking for their first gun or a spare > this is worth looking at. I paid over $70 for Zenith gun and would not buy > again. Inquiring minds may want to know. > > Rodney Mills > Northport, Al > 601XL/ Corvair > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.