---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/17/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:29 AM - Re: Oil in air cooled engines (secatur) 2. 03:52 AM - Re: fiberglass wingtip fit (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 04:37 AM - Re: Re: Oil in air cooled engines (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: fiberglass wingtip fit (Gary Boothe) 5. 06:49 AM - Re: fiberglass wingtip fit (Bill Naumuk) 6. 08:37 AM - Diesel Zenith (bob west) 7. 10:18 AM - Re: fiberglass wingtip fit (Bryan Martin) 8. 10:38 AM - Noise cancelling Intercom (R.P.) 9. 11:09 AM - Re: Diesel Zenith (Jari Kaija) 10. 11:38 AM - Re: Diesel Zenith (ZodieRocket) 11. 12:51 PM - Re: Oil in air cooled engines (Tim Juhl) 12. 01:24 PM - Re: Diesel Zenith (David Downey) 13. 01:59 PM - Re: Diesel Zenith (David Downey) 14. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Wing Spar Assembly Drawing 6W3, number of hat stiffeners ? (Larry Winger) 15. 03:59 PM - Re: fiberglass wingtip fit (Bill Naumuk) 16. 04:14 PM - Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Bill Naumuk) 17. 07:51 PM - Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil in air cooled engines From: "secatur" I'm not sure if it's relevant, but we always add 1-2% castor oil to synthetic oil in our methanol fuel for R/C aircraft engines. With such large oil percentages (12-20%), you wouldn't think it would make much difference, but we have found that engines that aren't used all the time rust with just synthetic oil! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-632#95632 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:52 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit Hi Bill, I take a different view of the fiberglass gap in the wing tip. I think the 3 mm measurement limit specified in the builder's manual is a general tolerance limit for structural components. In any case where this limit is exceeded it is time to call for technical support and professional engineer judgement whether to accept the design change or rebuild the part or structure in question. In this case, the fiberglass is essentially a fairing rather than a critical structural component. The gap in fitting this fairing to the aluminum skin occurs in a place where there is normally no air flow anyway since the skin is outside the fiberglass. I think it is OK to fill this gap with any sort of material that you can get to stick in there. I realize this could be a minority opinion. Still, I have to conclude that the strength required for the fiberglass wing tip only needs to be enough to keep it from falling apart in flight. Paul XL fuselage > >To be more specific, +/-2mm = +/-.0792. 3/8"= .375. It's your plane, >but I rest my case. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa - ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:23 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Oil in air cooled engines Hello Lary: As I remember, the reference to using diesel oil was in response to SAE changing automobile oil standards ( I cannot remember if the change was the SF or SG rating) that removed much of the zinc out of the oil which was thought to be damaging catalyic converters. Zinc is an anti-friction component which we need in air-cooled (motorcycle) engines which aids in dry startups. I don't recall if it had anything to do with heat. For the little added expense I always use motorcycle oils in the H-D and the BMW. Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/16/2007 10:44:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrm@skyhawg.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" Boy I'll tell you, I think it boils down to personal likes and dislikes. Except it is a fact that one should use a non-synthetic oil for the break in period. The reason is simple, regular oil is not as friction proof as synthetic so the engine's rings will seat quicker. My RevTech owner's manual says to use a regular 10/30 for the first 10 hours and then switch to their (naturally) synthetic oil. It's been my experience that engines will still break in with synthetic oil, it just takes longer. I put Mobil1 in my Harley and Subaru's from the get go. My last Subaru powered gyro now has 800+ hours and running strong. I do agree to use a very good oil whatever the brand and stay away from K-Mart specials. .. An added note, I saw in my Harley service manual, I don't have the exact words but it said that in the event you didn't have Harley oil you should make sure whatever oil you use should be rated for diesel engines. I will try and find the exact paragraph and post it if anyone is interested. The only reason I can think of is that Harley's run a lot hotter than other engines. The book says the operating temp is 240 degrees. The Harley shop told me 250 is not unusual. Larry N1345L, www.skyhawg.com. PS, For those who might be interested in non-airplane stuff I have a few new pictures of my GroundHawg on my site, it is www.skyhawg.com/sam4.html. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:38 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit ...I used a hand-flanging tool to roll the edge enough to fill the gap...why introduce more stuff? Keep it simple.... Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit Hi Bill, I take a different view of the fiberglass gap in the wing tip. I think the 3 mm measurement limit specified in the builder's manual is a general tolerance limit for structural components. In any case where this limit is exceeded it is time to call for technical support and professional engineer judgement whether to accept the design change or rebuild the part or structure in question. In this case, the fiberglass is essentially a fairing rather than a critical structural component. The gap in fitting this fairing to the aluminum skin occurs in a place where there is normally no air flow anyway since the skin is outside the fiberglass. I think it is OK to fill this gap with any sort of material that you can get to stick in there. I realize this could be a minority opinion. Still, I have to conclude that the strength required for the fiberglass wing tip only needs to be enough to keep it from falling apart in flight. Paul XL fuselage > >To be more specific, +/-2mm = +/-.0792. 3/8"= .375. It's your plane, >but I rest my case. >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa - ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:32 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit Which is a technique I first saw on Jeff Small's plane (Although he used a different tool) and used on mine. I'm not very familiar with XL construction, but two things surprise me. One, that the general tolerance has been increased to +/- 3mm, and two, considering all the problems people have had over the years re: fiberglass wingtip fit that an alternative wasn't implemented. The time and installation frustration savings would be considerable. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit > > ...I used a hand-flanging tool to roll the edge enough to fill the > gap...why > introduce more stuff? Keep it simple.... > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:24 AM PST US From: bob west Subject: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith List, The turbo-diesel web site that Sebastian took pictures of and mentioned on the Zenith web site, is now open. Very little information yet, but the first will be in a 701. I e-mailed the site and got a quick reply. I hope these guys make a go of it. Someone needs to compete with Rotax. BOB --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:34 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit I had little trouble getting my fairing to fit snugly into the skin. But then, Mine didn't sit in storage very long before I installed them. Apparently, these fiberglass pieces tend to sag a bit when they are stored a long time. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:37 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Zenith-List: Noise cancelling Intercom I was getting ready to take the Zodiac over the Tehachapi mountains yesterday to visit Minter Field when the intercom died. It's an old second-hand Sigtronics portable I got on Ebay for a few bucks. I'm going to replace it with a new unit, but can't decide which one to buy. Doing a Google search for "aviation intercom" comes up with a page full of options, the one on the top of the page is http://www.flighttech.com/ which makes intercoms with active noise reduction instead of a "squelch control" knob. Has anyone here used one of these? How well do they work? Rick Pitcher N601ZR ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:11 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith >The turbo-diesel web site that Sebastian took pictures of and mentioned > on the Zenith web site, is now open. Very little information yet, but the > first will be in a 701. I e-mailed the site and got a quick reply. WWW link? http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net http://www.advertiser.fi ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:23 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith HYPERLINK "http://vulcanaircraftengines.com/index.html"http://vulcanaircraftengine s.com/index.html Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jari Kaija Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith >The turbo-diesel web site that Sebastian took pictures of and mentioned > on the Zenith web site, is now open. Very little information yet, but the > first will be in a 701. I e-mailed the site and got a quick reply. WWW link? HYPERLINK "http://www.jarikaija.com"http://www.jarikaija.com HYPERLINK "http://www.project-ch701.net"http://www.project-ch701.net HYPERLINK "http://www.advertiser.fi/"http://www.advertiser.fi "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com -- 2/16/2007 2:25 PM -- 2/16/2007 2:25 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil in air cooled engines From: "Tim Juhl" I forgot to mention that one of the considerations in choosing an oil is the kind of fuel you plan to use. If you are going to burn 100LL I think you'll want to stick with approved aviation oils. If you are burning mogas, then as long as the engine manufacturer agrees, other oils are probably an option. Breaking in with mineral oil has been the standard forever. That said, there are some aircraft engine rebuilders that recommend or require that you use a multigrade ashless dispersant oil. Go figure. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-720#95720 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:24 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith I must have missed the original posting. I assuem that this is very expensive and can run on jet-A? How about RPM and weight? Thanks. Jari Kaija wrote: >The turbo-diesel web site that Sebastian took pictures of and mentioned > on the Zenith web site, is now open. Very little information yet, but the > first will be in a 701. I e-mailed the site and got a quick reply. WWW link? http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net http://www.advertiser.fi Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:52 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Diesel Zenith never mind! do not archive David Downey wrote: I must have missed the original posting. I assuem that this is very expensive and can run on jet-A? How about RPM and weight? Thanks. Jari Kaija wrote: >The turbo-diesel web site that Sebastian took pictures of and mentioned > on the Zenith web site, is now open. Very little information yet, but the > first will be in a 701. I e-mailed the site and got a quick reply. WWW link? http://www.jarikaija.com Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Spar Assembly Drawing 6W3, number of hat stiffeners ? Hi Dave, I went through the archives and found this email from you last year. I'm now ready to proceed with my wing spars, and wanted to be sure I understood them fully before cutting metal. Here's my question. You say that the spar layout on 6W3 (for long range tanks) shows 2 short and 1 long hat stiffener (6W8). I would agree that both the rivet layout elevation (top of page) and the cap/stiffener/NRA diagram (middle of the page) support that part count. Why, then, do you think they show two long and two short hat stiffeners in the top view (between the other two elevations)? I'm assuming it was just a mistake. I was in Orlando on business for 3-1/2 days last week and leave tomorrow for a solid week in Chicago. I'm trying to steal a few hours in the garage today so I can make a little forward progress on these spars. How's it going on your wings? Stay warm. LW On 1/21/07, TxDave wrote: > > > Page 6-K-0 of the plans shows the dimensions and spar layout for the > standard tanks. There are 2 long and 2 short hat stiffeners specified in the > plans for the standard tanks. Page 6-W-3 shows the spar configuration for > the long range tanks which specifies 2 short and 1 long stiffeners. Note > that the location of LNRA#4 is different for the standard tanks. I think ZAC > should have put the drawings for the standard tanks on 6-W-3 and the > optional long range tanks on page 6-K-0. That seems to be more logical, to > me. > > Dave Clay > http://www.daves601xl.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89455#89455 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:42 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit Bryan- Yes, they do. I had all kinds of trouble with my originals (Which were about 2 years old), but relatively no problems with replacements. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit > > I had little trouble getting my fairing to fit snugly into the skin. But > then, Mine didn't sit in storage very long before I installed them. > Apparently, these fiberglass pieces tend to sag a bit when they are > stored a long time. > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon Ron- You were kind enough to send pictures of your Dynon pitot tube installation and like an idiot, I saved the wrong posting to my "Keepers" file. Please resend. Thanks. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon From: "Ron Lendon" Bill, Try this link and look down the date files, around 1/15/07 to 1/22/07 was when I was working on that. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-784#95784 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.