---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/18/07: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:47 AM - 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (PatrickW) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: Diesel Zenith (PatrickW) 3. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Bill Naumuk) 4. 08:14 AM - Strobes (Bill Naumuk) 5. 08:18 AM - Pitot (Bill Naumuk) 6. 08:45 AM - Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Gig Giacona) 7. 08:54 AM - Re: Strobes (Tim Juhl) 8. 09:06 AM - Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (Tim Juhl) 9. 09:15 AM - Heated pitot tubes (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 10. 10:17 AM - test pilot (Darrell Haas) 11. 10:42 AM - Re: Strobes (LarryMcFarland) 12. 10:59 AM - Re: test pilot (Tim Juhl) 13. 10:59 AM - Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (ashontz) 14. 11:08 AM - Re: test pilot (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 11:17 AM - Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (Tim Juhl) 16. 11:40 AM - Re: test pilot (LarryMcFarland) 17. 12:23 PM - Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (John Marzulli) 18. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (John Marzulli) 19. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Noel Loveys) 20. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (NYTerminat@aol.com) 21. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Craig Payne) 22. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 23. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: fiberglass wingtip fit () 24. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (C Smith) 25. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Noel Loveys) 26. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Noel Loveys) 27. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Noel Loveys) 28. 06:28 PM - Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Ron Lendon) 29. 06:36 PM - Re: Strobes (Ron Lendon) 30. 08:19 PM - stuff about sunglasses (Jeff Small) 31. 11:01 PM - Yet another photo assembly guide update (lwinger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) From: "PatrickW" I've been tracking my progress on my 601 XL, and today I will pass the 100 hour mark. Here's what I've accomplished in that 100 hours: Rudder - Done (at Zenith workshop). Stabilizer - Done. Elevator - Done (with trim tab). Corvair Engine - Disassembled, initial cleaning, baffles & pushrod tubes finished and painted, awaiting parts. Flaps - Both in clecoes (will deburr & cortec today). Right Aileron - In clecoes (will deburr & cortec today). Left Aileron - In clecoes, currently fitting trim tab (will deburr & cortec today). Most difficult task so far: Removing several frozen bolts on my Corvair core. First-time builder, so I don't know if I'm "fast" or "slow", but all those pre-drilled holes sure are a BIG help. Sometimes I wonder if they didn't ship me a QB kit by mistake. I didn't track the time I spent preparing by workshop (insulating, putting down an epoxy floor, installing lights and a heater), building my table, convincing my wife, scrounging through junkyards for an engine, or researching on-line. - Patrick 601XL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-808#95808 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith From: "PatrickW" I didn't see any pricing. Anybody know...? I would have (would still?) seriously considered a diesel for my 601 if one were available for a reasonable price (Delta Hawk diesels are WAY expensive). I've got a VW TDI and an old MB diesel, and if I could I'd run diesel in all my stuff. - Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-809#95809 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:55 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon Ron- Now that I see the pictures, we might be talking apples and oranges. When I built my wings many moons ago, the Dynon EFIS was out of my price range, so I installed an ACS pitot/static combination for steam gauges. Now I'm totally committed to going Dynon EFIS or an equivalent with a couple of steam gauge backups. I have no intention of installing an AOA, which is what your pitot is for, but hate to have a batch of unnecessary holes if I have to re-install the necessary pitot. My question is, do you need a special pitot for the Dynon EFIS, or am I OK with what I have? This information wasn't evident a couple of years ago. Incidentally, nice job of design and execution. If you're like me, you're prouder of your own creation than you are of the rest of the plane. (Sort of). Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon > > Bill, > > Try this link and look down the date files, around 1/15/07 to 1/22/07 was > when I was working on that. > > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-784#95784 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:13 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Strobes All- Is there anyone out there that installed belly and/or turtle deck strobes? I never wanted them on the wingtips, even before I decided to polish, rather than paint. Too distracting. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:42 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot All- Duh! Just checked the Dynon website, and any pitot will work with the EFIS. Still, I'd like to hear from anyone with a Dynon EFIS re: pitot tubes used. Thanks, people. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon From: "Gig Giacona" If you are not going to is the AOA you don't need to use the Dynon pitot. You ACS should work fine. naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > > My question is, do you need a special pitot for the Dynon EFIS, or am I > OK with what I have? This information wasn't evident a couple of years ago. > --- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-843#95843 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Strobes From: "Tim Juhl" Turtle deck? Do you mean behind the canopy? That is the last place I would put a strobe. You'll notice that rudder mounted strobes are typically masked to flash only toward the rear 270 of arc. I haven't finished my XL but I've had experience with strobes in a bunch of other locations. Generally I found the belly or wingtips to be the least distracting, although I had to mask off the globe of the belly strobe to avoid flashing the arc of the prop. The wingtip strobes on my 182 were only a problem if I forgot and left them on entering clouds. I too am curious whether the placement of the strobes on the XL causes any distraction. Chime in guys. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-845#95845 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) From: "Tim Juhl" I think you are doing OK. Anyone who can build an XL in 400 hours as the advertising claims is either very skillful or has built one before. I'm probably in the slow category but then I take my time and so far have avoided any big mistakes. I've completed the rudder, tailfeathers, flaps and ailerons, installed fuel senders in the tanks and am finishing out the right wing. I installed the baggage locker (which took awhile) and am doing the wingtip right now. Fuel tanks are next and I'll be done. Along the way I trimmed the nose ribs and fabricated the pieces needed for both wings at the same time so left wing should move along a little faster. Time required? I just hit 400 hours. Enjoy the process! Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-846#95846 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:03 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Heated pitot tubes Folks: Since I do fly in the clouds sometimes, I have been looking for heated pitot tubes. New ones run between $500-$900. Used 12V units usually go for $150-$300 on EBay. I often saw 24V units much cheaper and wondered how they would work on my 12V airplane. Since a heated pitot tube is designed to melt off ice when it's -56=B0C, I figured that running it at 1/4 power might be OK for an occasional trip into clouds below the freezing level. I purchased a very nice 24V unit on eBay for $43 (including mounting bracket and shipping!) and here are the two results of my not-too-scientific testing: [1] Hooked up to my 13.8V bench power supply, the unit reached a temperature that burned my finger in less than 1 minute. I turned it off then. [2] Room temperature resistance was about 2.7 Ohms, meaning the start-up draw should be about 13.8/2.7 = 5.1 amps. This makes it about a 70-watt heater, which I am going to say is fine for my purposes. Complete testing would actually measure both the tip temperature and resistance as a function of time and environment temperature, but I'm pretty happy as is. Of course, you should make your own decisions about that for your own planned flight profiles. Note that this is a pitot tube only, and a source for static air has to be installed. I plan on using the $20 static air kit from Van's and placing the ports on the fuselage sides about 1/2 way back, much as they are placed in the certified aircraft. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:33 AM PST US From: "Darrell Haas" Subject: Zenith-List: test pilot I have about 130 hours in various planes and will be building a 601 xl- 3300 Jab. and wonder how many of you who have built your own planes did your own test flights and if yes how did you prepare for them? Thank you, Darrell Haas Troutdale, Oregon Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:11 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes Bill, Aren't you worried that if you put strobes on the turtle deck you'll pick up extraneous flash within that big bubble. That might be a bigger distraction. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > Is there anyone out there that installed belly and/or turtle deck > strobes? I never wanted them on the wingtips, even before I decided to > polish, rather than paint. Too distracting. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: test pilot From: "Tim Juhl" The EAA has a lot of good info to help you prepare for your airplane's first flight and subsequent testing. If you don't belong they are a good organization and you might do well to avail yourself of their volunteer technical and flight advisors. Check out: http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/testing/articles/articles.html Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-859#95859 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) From: "ashontz" Are you guys building from kits? I'm building from plans and have about 350 hours in. rudder, stabilizer, and elevator done. right wing about 50% complete. I have a fair amount of time logged for miscellaneous workshop related etc... so probably about 250 actual build time. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-860#95860 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:41 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test pilot Hi Darrell, I am also building an XL with J-3300 which I hope to complete some time this year. I will certainly do my own flight testing. From my biased and unjustified point of view, hiring a test pilot to make your first flight is similar to hiring a gigolo to initiate your new bride. There are many resources you can and should take advantage of for your flight testing. Probably the most important one is to get into the EAA chapter (there are 3 in your area, but the largest and almost closest one is in Hillsboro) and get hooked up with a "Flight Advisor". The flight advisor program is one of the big benefits of EAA membership. It exists just for the purpose of helping builders perform flight testing. There are also a long list of documents you can read to help with this. FAA AC 90-89a is devoted to this subject, and you can download this from the FAA web site. It may be overkill, but reading it is a great place to start. I have also seen a document from Chris Heintz about flight testing kit planes. It points out that testing a plane is a different proposition when there have already been many just like it built. Ideally, you should try to get some transition training and stick time in the exact model plane you will test. This is difficult at best now but will be easier as time moves on. I will need to go to California or Arizona today to get Zodiac time and it will not be with the right engine. By the time you are ready, my plane might be available for you to get some stick time. After all, it will be only 20 miles or so from your home. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 10:15 AM 2/18/2007, you wrote: >I have about 130 hours in various planes and will be building a 601 >xl- 3300 Jab. and wonder how many of you who have built your own >planes did your own test flights and if yes how did you prepare for them? >Thank you, >Darrell Haas >Troutdale, Oregon > >Do not archive. - ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) From: "Tim Juhl" I'm building from the standard kit. I haven't counted the hours related to fixing up my workshop, sweeping the floor and etc. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-863#95863 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:24 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test pilot Hi Darrell, I flew a rented Piper PA28 for a few hours to stay current, then got an hour of right seat time in a 601. The piper is heavier, the reactions similar but its slower. Youll find an 601XL elevator is lighter and more responsive, but the rest should seem very normal. Draft a test program for flight evaluation progressing from taxi to pattern flight to the working envelope so that it guarantees all preflight checks are done including CG for the very first flight. Taxi test for one or two days to check your engine, landing gear, fuel systems, prop pitch setting etc. Get comfortable with progressively higher taxi speeds to just light on the gear. Stop when youre fully satisfied that your systems are reliable and youre comfortable with the way the plane handles on the ground. Wait to the next good day to fly. Youre first flight depends a bit more on your hours and your personal confidence in flying the plane. Theres nothing wrong with having someone fully qualified flying the XL first if you have concerns that youre not ready. If you have a tower, initially, ask for clearance for test space directly above the airport at 4000 feet or so rather than leaving the airport immediately. It would be good to keep a small voice recorder in a pocket that you input data to and later evaluate engine and aircraft performance after each flight. Before and after each flight for a month, with a flashlight, check everything in the extreme for fuel leaks, oil seepage, etc and eventually build a practical preflight check list and a landing checklist that covers essential items that are specific to your aircraft and continue to use them. With your hours and one doing right seat in a XL, you'll do fine. Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Darrell Haas wrote: > I have about 130 hours in various planes and will be building a 601 > xl- 3300 Jab. and wonder how many of you who have built your own > planes did your own test flights and if yes how did you prepare for them? > Thank you, > Darrell Haas > Troutdale, Oregon > * > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:16 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) When I started building, part of the planning stage consisted of trying to figure out how much of a time commitment I needed to make. Searching among 701 builder websites, not much time data was available, so I publish and track my time using a Blog. Many things affect how long a project lasts, including how often you work on the project. For me, the biggest effect is whether or not someone if helping me. A helper seems to reduce time by 50%, plus you get someone to double check all measurements and assumptions. After approximately 137 hours ( most with a helper), the rudder, elevator, horizontal stabilizer and flaperons have been completed. I'm currently working on the wing skeletons. Good luck! - John in Seattle On 2/18/07, PatrickW wrote: > > > I've been tracking my progress on my 601 XL, and today I will pass the 100 > hour mark. > > Here's what I've accomplished in that 100 hours: > > Rudder - Done (at Zenith workshop). > Stabilizer - Done. > Elevator - Done (with trim tab). > Corvair Engine - Disassembled, initial cleaning, baffles & pushrod tubes > finished and painted, awaiting parts. > Flaps - Both in clecoes (will deburr & cortec today). > Right Aileron - In clecoes (will deburr & cortec today). > Left Aileron - In clecoes, currently fitting trim tab (will deburr & > cortec today). > > Most difficult task so far: Removing several frozen bolts on my Corvair > core. > > First-time builder, so I don't know if I'm "fast" or "slow", but all those > pre-drilled holes sure are a BIG help. Sometimes I wonder if they didn't > ship me a QB kit by mistake. > > I didn't track the time I spent preparing by workshop (insulating, putting > down an epoxy floor, installing lights and a heater), building my table, > convincing my wife, scrounging through junkyards for an engine, or > researching on-line. > > - Patrick > 601XL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-808#95808 > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:40 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith To me, the biggest advantage of a diesel would be the ability to run Jet-A and not have to worry about the ethanol content of fuel. There just doesn't seem to be a good 100LL alternative engine for the 701. - John in Seattle On 2/18/07, PatrickW wrote: > > > I didn't see any pricing. Anybody know...? > > I would have (would still?) seriously considered a diesel for my 601 if > one were available for a reasonable price (Delta Hawk diesels are WAY > expensive). > > I've got a VW TDI and an old MB diesel, and if I could I'd run diesel in > all my stuff. > > - Patrick > 601XL/Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-809#95809 > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:24 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith To me, the biggest advantage of a diesel would be the ability to run Jet-A and not have to worry about the ethanol content of fuel. There just doesn't seem to be a good 100LL alternative engine for the 701. - John in Seattle On 2/18/07, PatrickW wrote: I didn't see any pricing. Anybody know...? I would have (would still?) seriously considered a diesel for my 601 if one were available for a reasonable price (Delta Hawk diesels are WAY expensive). I've got a VW TDI and an old MB diesel, and if I could I'd run diesel in all my stuff. - Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:37 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Noel, Diesel/JetA is heavier than AvGas or MoGas In a message dated 2/18/2007 4:56:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes: Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:14 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith > Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Somewhere it was pointed out that although Diesel engines get better miles per gallon they get about the same miles per pound of fuel. True? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:40 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Hello Craig: Not true. Diesels by design and by fuel chemistry deliver more miles per pound of fuel. Rule of thumb: The heavier the fuel the more energy per pound. OK, before all the chemical engineers flame me, I'm just making the comparison that #4 bunker oil that is thick as sludge and has to be moved while hot contains more energy per pound than a light distillate. Diesel fuel and Jet-A (more similiar to kerosene than #2 diesel) have more oomph than gasoline. Gasoline has to run at (approximately) 14.5 to 1 to burn - diesels idle at as little as 100 to 1 and at full power come close to 14 to 1. Many of the old big rigs that have mechanical injection are overfuelled when they belch black smoke because they are running rich...there is not enough oxygen to burn all the fuel. So, whe you are at cruise power, there is always excess oxygen in the cylinder for a complete burn..and the single lever control will see to it. Goodbye mixture knob ! I will be following these light sport diesels very carefully. The Vulcan and the DAIR-100 from the UK look VERY promising. The DAIR is a TWO-STROKE design very similiar to the Fairbanks-Morse design that powered the majority of the old US diesel submarine fleet and are still being made for stationary and marine applications. The DeltaHawk is looking to be a fine design, but just too much for our Zeniths; same for the Thielert. The SMA diesel isn't even looking at the experimental market...is it ? Tracy Smith do not archive In a message dated 2/18/2007 5:20:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, craig@craigandjean.com writes: > Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Somewhere it was pointed out that although Diesel engines get better miles per gallon they get about the same miles per pound of fuel. True? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:57 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit From: Bill Naumuk Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit Bryan- Yes, they do. I had all kinds of trouble with my originals (Which were about 2 years old), but relatively no problems with replacements. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fiberglass wingtip fit > > I had little trouble getting my fairing to fit snugly into the skin. But > then, Mine didn't sit in storage very long before I installed them. > Apparently, these fiberglass pieces tend to sag a bit when they are > stored a long time. > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > >Brian,and Bill, I have an older kit(circa 2002) and I had trouble fitting the tips.What I did that worked was sort of re- shape them with a heat gun.After I worked on them awhile,they were ok. Bob Haring (601xl,900 manhours so far).Lots of walking around the workbench time too! Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:32 PM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Tracy, your observations about some of the new power plant makers not even concerned about the experimental market is interesting. When, after spending considerable sums of money in development, the makers find that the certified manufacturers do not start buying or only one manufacturer seems to get the contracts, you will see them come running to the home-builders to sell whatever they can. One would think that the minimum of red tape to cut in the exp market to be a very attractive incentive. On the other hand you'll not see a more frugal group of people either. That I believe is the reason for ignoring us. The investors want return quickly as possible, and have planned for an adoption by TC manufactures for big contracts. The problem with that strategy, TC manufacturers (in general) are not early adopters of anything, but would rather see an established track record of a given technology before taking a risk with it. On economy/fuel efficiency, I remember reading an article that did a rather good job of breaking down the available energy in the fuels, then comparing it with the efficiencies of the motors. If I find that piece, I'll reference it so everyone can look it up. You are correct, diesel/jet-a/kerosene have more energy per pound. Biggest problem is the reciprocating piston internal combustion engine, is not very efficient at converting that to useable mechanical output. Then there's the weight thing associated with the higher compression combustion needing more robust construction.... My future choice for a power plant is tentatively the innodyn turbine. I'm just hoping they can deliver on the promised technology. AFAICT there have not been too many shipments of product. I wish them well, but won't send any deposit until there are units in the field. Craig Smith (not the other Craig) _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Hello Craig: Not true. Diesels by design and by fuel chemistry deliver more miles per pound of fuel. Rule of thumb: The heavier the fuel the more energy per pound. OK, before all the chemical engineers flame me, I'm just making the comparison that #4 bunker oil that is thick as sludge and has to be moved while hot contains more energy per pound than a light distillate. Diesel fuel and Jet-A (more similiar to kerosene than #2 diesel) have more oomph than gasoline. Gasoline has to run at (approximately) 14.5 to 1 to burn - diesels idle at as little as 100 to 1 and at full power come close to 14 to 1. Many of the old big rigs that have mechanical injection are overfuelled when they belch black smoke because they are running rich...there is not enough oxygen to burn all the fuel. So, whe you are at cruise power, there is always excess oxygen in the cylinder for a complete burn..and the single lever control will see to it. Goodbye mixture knob ! I will be following these light sport diesels very carefully. The Vulcan and the DAIR-100 from the UK look VERY promising. The DAIR is a TWO-STROKE design very similiar to the Fairbanks-Morse design that powered the majority of the old US diesel submarine fleet and are still being made for stationary and marine applications. The DeltaHawk is looking to be a fine design, but just too much for our Zeniths; same for the Thielert. The SMA diesel isn't even looking at the experimental market...is it ? Tracy Smith do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:52 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith True... But not nearly so heavy as pure water (10 lb/Imp Gal). Gas is around 6 lb/Imp Gal and Jet A around 7Lb/Imp gal.. You should also only need a lot less fuel by weight to do the same work. The fuel is not near as volatile as gas but packs a lot more BTU per Gal. this is why they run turbine engines on the stuff. If there were more power in gas it would be easy to make the adjustments in the turbines to run effective in it. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Noel, Diesel/JetA is heavier than AvGas or MoGas In a message dated 2/18/2007 4:56:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes: Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:41 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith No... There is more power (BTU) in a pound of Diesel than there is in a pound of Gasoline It also is not as volatile. One down side could be that diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather. They do need good size starters and probably heavy batteries. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith > Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Somewhere it was pointed out that although Diesel engines get better miles per gallon they get about the same miles per pound of fuel. True? -- Craig Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:29 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Sorry Group I answered this one twice before I got to read Tracey's reply. Do not archive. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Hello Craig: Not true. Diesels by design and by fuel chemistry deliver more miles per pound of fuel. Rule of thumb: The heavier the fuel the more energy per pound. OK, before all the chemical engineers flame me, I'm just making the comparison that #4 bunker oil that is thick as sludge and has to be moved while hot contains more energy per pound than a light distillate. Diesel fuel and Jet-A (more similiar to kerosene than #2 diesel) have more oomph than gasoline. Gasoline has to run at (approximately) 14.5 to 1 to burn - diesels idle at as little as 100 to 1 and at full power come close to 14 to 1. Many of the old big rigs that have mechanical injection are overfuelled when they belch black smoke because they are running rich...there is not enough oxygen to burn all the fuel. So, whe you are at cruise power, there is always excess oxygen in the cylinder for a complete burn..and the single lever control will see to it. Goodbye mixture knob ! I will be following these light sport diesels very carefully. The Vulcan and the DAIR-100 from the UK look VERY promising. The DAIR is a TWO-STROKE design very similiar to the Fairbanks-Morse design that powered the majority of the old US diesel submarine fleet and are still being made for stationary and marine applications. The DeltaHawk is looking to be a fine design, but just too much for our Zeniths; same for the Thielert. The SMA diesel isn't even looking at the experimental market...is it ? Tracy Smith do not archive In a message dated 2/18/2007 5:20:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, craig@craigandjean.com writes: > Don't forget about the fuel efficiency.... you won't have to carry as much fuel either. Also no plugs to foul and no mixture to worry about! Somewhere it was pointed out that although Diesel engines get better miles per gallon they get about the same miles per pound of fuel. True? -- Craig Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon From: "Ron Lendon" Bill, Gig is right, any pitot will work. I just liked the AOA Dynon tube and do plan to tune it in. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-929#95929 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Strobes From: "Ron Lendon" I am planning on mounting the AeroFlash units, nav/pos/strobe, on the wing tip below my sight lines from the cockpit. That should take care of me getting distracted by them. If the light bounces off clouds, just switch em off. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-932#95932 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:28 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: stuff about sunglasses Since there was some discussion about sunglasses recently, here is some info a former Sonex builder shared with me: >From rec.aviation.soaring safety FAQ: "Polarized lenses are great for fishing but bad for flying. Due to manufacturing stresses, there may be small areas of polarization in an aircraft canopy or windscreen and, if the angles of polarization in the glasses and the windscreen differ, a blind spot can be produced. Polarization may also interfere with depth and distance perception, particularly during a bank. Just what you need turning on final!" >From the iPilot message boards (sorry about the lazyman typing, with no caps): "if you're looking for the best in lenses, try Maui Jim's. (www.mauijims.com) they make a style that has a very thin, flexible piece of titanium as the temple and it has no hinges. i have a reuglar hinged style and they are the best lenses i have ever used BY FAR! i have a low tolerance for bright light so the more protection teh better. the lenses block UVA and UVB, and are polarized. the polarized lesnes can pose as a problem in that they can partially or totally block the view of some digital avionics. i have never had this occur though. you can make it occur if you tilt your head 90 degrees to the avionics, the frequencies on your radios will disappear, then reappear when you tilt your head back to normal. the FAA doesn't recommend the use of polarized lenses for that reason but there are no regs against them." >From the FAA website, in a Federal Air Surgeon's Medical Bulletin titled "Are Sunglasses in Aviation Really Necessary?": "Polarized lenses eliminate reflected glare from a flat surface. However, looking through a laminated aircraft windscreen, while wearing polarized lenses, can result in a reduced retinal image. " >From a website called "www.iflyamerica.com", in an article about choosing the right sunglasses: "But all pilots should avoid polarized sunglasses, says Dr. William Monaco, an aviation optometrist in Wilmington, Delaware, because they eliminate the all-important glare or glint of light reflected from other maneuvering aircraft that catches your eye, alerting you to traffic nearby." >From the website "www.aviationmedicine.com", article titled "Eye Protection and Optimum Vision for Pilots": Polarized lenses should not be worn by pilots in the cockpit. Glare from flat surfaces is blocked by polarized lenses which are oriented in parallel lines like closely spaced prison bars. Light parallel to the lines is transmitted while non-parallel light (glare) is blocked. Unfortunately, if the windscreen is polarized and the lenses are not precisely oriented the same as the windscreen, all light may be blocked. Changing bank angle and head position could create blind spots. For those who are boating and need glare protection from light reflected off the water, polarized lenses are excellent choices. I also found that Flying magazine article about Scheyden Sunglasses where they state: The standard neutral gray lenses did not change the colors of the instruments, which is key since the FAA doesn't allow pilots to wear polarized sunglasses in the cockpit. I'm not sure where they got that info, since even the material from the FAA site doesn't indicate it is "not allowed". So, it looks like the general concensus is that polarized sunglasses aren't a great idea for flying, but it isn't against the FAR's. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Yet another photo assembly guide update From: "lwinger" Hello all, I just noticed a new update for the photo guide, surprisingly dated 3/12/07. These guys at ZAC are ahead of their time in so many ways! The update is for 6-W-1 "Wings: Flaps." Since I recently asked the list a question about placement of the control plate (6W1-3), I was interested to see that they now suggest that we not install the plate until the wing is bolted on the fuselage. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Control surfaces complete/starting on wing spars Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-971#95971 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.