---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/19/07: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: Diesel Zenith (2thesky) 2. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 3. 06:25 AM - Re: Test Pilot (Bima, Martin) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 5. 08:59 AM - Stratus problems (Brandon Tucker) 6. 10:02 AM - wing attachment /cables (john butterfield) 7. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith () 8. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Test Pilot (Darrell Haas) 9. 10:39 AM - Re: Oil in air cooled engines (billmileski) 10. 10:41 AM - Re: Stratus problems (LarryMcFarland) 11. 10:50 AM - Re: Yet another photo assembly guide update (PatrickW) 12. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Diesel Zenith (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 13. 11:33 AM - Re: Stratus problems (Brandon Tucker) 14. 11:37 AM - Re: Stratus problems (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 15. 12:04 PM - Re: wing attachment /cables (japhillipsga@aol.com) 16. 12:32 PM - Re: wing attachment /cables () 17. 01:14 PM - Re: wing attachment /cables (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 01:42 PM - 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant (Jason) 19. 01:56 PM - Paint (Joe) 20. 01:56 PM - Paint (Joe) 21. 01:58 PM - 601HD for sale (official) (Trevor Page) 22. 02:22 PM - Re: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) (Rich) 23. 02:28 PM - Re: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 02:41 PM - Re: Trevor & 601 for sale (Zed Smith) 25. 02:49 PM - Re: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant (Craig Payne) 26. 03:08 PM - Re: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant (John Bolding) 27. 03:20 PM - Re: Paint (n801bh@netzero.com) 28. 03:36 PM - Prospective 701 flyer - Performance questions (StolBrit) 29. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon (Bill Naumuk) 30. 04:01 PM - Re: Strobes (Bill Naumuk) 31. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Strobes (Bill Naumuk) 32. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Test Pilot (Bryan Martin) 33. 04:57 PM - Re: Strobes (Bryan Martin) 34. 05:18 PM - Re: Strobes (Juan Vega) 35. 05:46 PM - Re: Stratus problems (Tim Shankland) 36. 05:58 PM - "Half Deep" Rivets...? (PatrickW) 37. 06:11 PM - Re: "Half Deep" Rivets...? (Tim Juhl) 38. 06:16 PM - Re: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant (Brandon Tucker) 39. 06:46 PM - Re: "Half Deep" Rivets...? (PatrickW) 40. 07:07 PM - Re: "Half Deep" Rivets...? (Josh Wilson) 41. 09:35 PM - 701 long wing (Dave and Pam Fisher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith From: "2thesky" Float Flyr wrote: > One down side could be that diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather. They do need good size starters and probably heavy batteries. Only diesel engines that aren't properly cared for, have fuel pressure problems, or are worn out are hard to start. I currently own five diesel engines and have owned many more in the past. Every time I have had a hard to start engine, I have been able to find and fix a problem that corrected the problem of being hard to start. You can just crank on it loger, use bigger and more batteries to suck fuel up to the injectors, and that will work and is, in fact, what most folks do, but I have always been able to fix mine so that they start easily through keeping the fuel system in top shape. I own one diesel in a Ford F-250 pickup. I also own two tractor trailers with big 550 hp engines and smaller diesel powered aux. power units on them, too. None of these are hard to start in the cold because they are all equipped with block heaters that keep the coolant warm. When it gets REALLY cold, I also use a heated dipstick that tends to keep the engine oil close to 85 degrees. All of my trucks start just fine in really cold weather. It has been hovering around 0 degrees here for a couple of weeks and all of my trucks started everyday with no problems, usually after just a couple of turns of the engine. One of my trucks sat outside in North Dakota for three days last week. It started on the third turn. In fact, I drive my diesel pickup more in the cold weather because the oil and coolant is warm all the time, and my car has to start cold. The diesel engines run smooth from the start and my car and farm tractor complain to me for the first few seconds. It is my opinion that because of the block and oil heating devices, my diesels suffer less wear than my gas engines from cold weather starts. It is simply a matter of plugging it in to a 110 volt electrical outlet at night, or just a couple of hours or so before starting (depending on the temp). I prefer to leave them plugged in all the time when not in use. For an airplane, I think I would leave the block heater off and just use the heated dipstick so! not to add any extra flying weight. To me, that sounds easier than the propane powered pre-heater that I use on the PA-28 I rent now. Just show up at the hangar, unplug and remove the heated dipstick, and replace the normal dipstick. You are ready to rock and roll. As for the starters and batteries, both of my semi's are equipped with auxiliary power units so that we don't need to idle the big engine for overnight stays and still run the heat/AC, provide electricity in the sleeper for lights, refrigerator, microwave, engine block heaters, battery charging for the big engine, etc. These units use lighter twin cylinder diesel engines, made by Kubota, and require only a single battery that is lighter than the one in my little V-6 powered car. It will spin and start the little Kubotas very easily. The starters are pretty much the same as a lawn mower. I doubt that for these lighter aircraft diesels, any huge heavy battery or starter would be needed. We do use huge starters on truck diesels, but I think that it is because manufacturers realize that most will allow small air leaks in the fuel system exist. I think these diesels could be great for airplanes if they can just keep the installed weight down. I hope by the time I am finally ready to start building, I will have a choice of engines that can run on diesel or Jet-A. I like it more than gas because of the volatility of gasoline. Also, my auto and truck diesels last a whole heck of a lot longer than my gas engine cars. One of my truck engines has 1.2 million miles on it. I usually run trucks to 1.5 million before trading them in or rebuilding them with meticulous maintenance, of course. I am sure most aircraft owners, particularly folks who built them are very good about maintenance. I hope that longevity will be the same in aircraft diesels. Just my opinions. -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-976#95976 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:09 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Good Morning ! Great post - thank you. I would just like to add one more comment - preheaters and block heaters are not the only answer, we have technology !! The early production Dodge-Cummins diesel uses a screen-type heater to warm the incoming air to aid in starting. I have no experience with it but I do remember it was equipped with TWO huge batteries. This engine appeared to me to be more old-truck-technology than new, but it has evolved over the years as well. The breakthrough high-rpm small diesel was from Volkswagen. The Volkswagen TDI (Turbo-Direct Injection) engine has been around since the early '90's. This small 98hp engine did not even have a block coolant heater or an oil dipstick heater available as an option in the United States - instead, it was engineered to start in very cold weather just using glow plugs. In this design, the fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber, as opposed to a prechamber which was the most common design up to that point. This greatly improved efficiency...some say direct injection increased the infamous 'diesel knock' you hear especially at idle, but a two-stage injection pulse helped quiet things down. Today's modern common-rail diesel designs pulse the fuel MANY,MANY times into the combustion chamber at injection pressures well above 28,000 psi! The smaller the fuel droplet, the more efficient the burn and the engine is quieter as well. The new TDI's, as well as the Mercedes CDI are common rail, and I believe I read the Vulcan will be common-rail as well. (OK, some TDI's are pumpe-duse - a technology VW pioneered which combine the injection pump and the injector into one unit, but that discussion need not belong here). Common-rail minuses? For aviation, this places us in electronic fuel injection territory that is percieved to be complex and with no simple mechanical backups. Both the SMA engine and the DAIR-100 use mechanical injection for simplicity. Indeed, the Bosch mechanical injection fuel pumps are marvles of mechanical engineering....and I certainly would NOT call them 'simple'....but they sure are durable !! I truely believe the aviation diesel is the way to go. The biggest problem will NOT be owner-operator acceptance, no, the greatest opposition will be the old-school A&P's and the ability to get someone who is receptive to something NEW to work on it. I see the problem all the time with my TDI which is why any VW diesel enthusiast who really wants to know his powerplant looks at _www.tdiclub.com_ (http://www.tdiclub.com) for brilliant answers to everyday questions the dealer cannot answer! I'm not bashing A&P's...please....but when the aviation diesel starts to sell the marketplace will demand skills the established labor pool cannot (yet) provide. This is where WE, the homebuilders, will have an advantage. WE talk technology. WE will be able to BUILD our support networks and fix problems. Look at the aviation diesels currently available or proposed. All that I have seen are talking TBR, not TBO. TBR is Time Before Replacement..they see these engines as being incredibly rugged, but the skills to rebuild them as lacking in the marketplace. I can't say I blame them, as diesels are designed and built to different tolerances (remember the General Motors/Oldsmobile V-8 diesel disaster?). Sorry for the long post... Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/19/2007 3:17:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, biggerspurs@HOTMAIL.COM writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" Float Flyr wrote: > One down side could be that diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather. They do need good size starters and probably heavy batteries. Only diesel engines that aren't properly cared for, have fuel pressure problems, or are worn out are hard to start. I currently own five diesel engines and have owned many more in the past. Every time I have had a hard to start engine, I have been able to find and fix a problem that corrected the problem of being hard to start. You can just crank on it loger, use bigger and more batteries to suck fuel up to the injectors, and that will work and is, in fact, what most folks do, but I have always been able to fix mine so that they start easily through keeping the fuel system in top shape. I own one diesel in a Ford F-250 pickup. I also own two tractor trailers with big 550 hp engines and smaller diesel powered aux. power units on them, too. None of these are hard to start in the cold because they are all equipped with block heaters that keep the coolant warm. When it gets REALLY cold, I also use a heated dipstick that tends to keep the engine oil close to 85 degrees. A! ll of my trucks start just fine in really cold weather. It has been hovering around 0 degrees here for a couple of weeks and all of my trucks started everyday with no problems, usually after just a couple of turns of the engine. One of my trucks sat outside in North Dakota for three days last week. It started on the third turn. In fact, I drive my diesel pickup more in the cold weather because the oil and coolant is warm all the time, and my car has to start cold. The diesel engines run smooth from the start and my car and farm tractor complain to me for the first few seconds. It is my opinion that because of the block and oil heating devices, my diesels suffer less wear than my gas engines from cold weather starts. It is simply a matter of plugging it in to a 110 volt electrical outlet at night, or just a couple of hours or so before starting (depending on the temp). I prefer to leave them plugged in all the time when not in use. For an airplane, I think I would l! eave the block heater off and just use the heated dipstick so! not to add any extra flying weight. To me, that sounds easier than the propane powered pre-heater that I use on the PA-28 I rent now. Just show up at the hangar, unplug and remove the heated dipstick, and replace the normal dipstick. You are ready to rock and roll. As for the starters and batteries, both of my semi's are equipped with auxiliary power units so that we don't need to idle the big engine for overnight stays and still run the heat/AC, provide electricity in the sleeper for lights, refrigerator, microwave, engine block heaters, battery charging for the big engine, etc. These units use lighter twin cylinder diesel engines, made by Kubota, and require only a single battery that is lighter than the one in my little V-6 powered car. It will spin and start the little Kubotas very easily. The starters are pretty much the same as a lawn mower. I doubt that for these lighter aircraft diesels, any huge heavy battery or starter would be needed. We do use huge starters on truck diesels, but I think that it is because manufacturers realize that most will allow small air leaks in the fuel system exist. I think these diesels could be great for airplanes if they can just keep the installed weight down. I hope by the time I am final! ly ready to start building, I will have a choice of engines that can run on diesel or Jet-A. I like it more than gas because of the volatility of gasoline. Also, my auto and truck diesels last a whole heck of a lot longer than my gas engine cars. One of my truck engines has 1.2 million miles on it. I usually run trucks to 1.5 million before trading them in or rebuilding them with meticulous maintenance, of course. I am sure most aircraft owners, particularly folks who built them are very good about maintenance. I hope that longevity will be the same in aircraft diesels. Just my opinions. -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Test Pilot From: "Bima, Martin" A really terrific book I have is "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft" by Vaughan Askue. You should actualy buy (and I mean buy, because if you borrow it, you will not want to give it back) it before you start throwing the big parts together because it has quite a bit of info on ergonomics and modifying the cabin to suit you (and your parachute). It is surprisingly thin for what it is, but it has all the good stuff from the first flight to envelope expansion and developing the numbers for your aircraft. It is also honest and covers the real dangers (and risk-reduction) of flying a new plane. I do not have anything to gain by plugging this book, other than - .... I just don't want to lend mine out anymore. I am sure that others would agree. Martin Bima Winnipeg CANADA 701 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:48 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Hello Craig: My comments on the diesel manufacturers were mainly aimed at SMA and Thielert. Yes, Deltahawk, Vulcan, and Diesel-Air appear to be actively courting the experimental market. Unfortunatly, none of these manufacturers are shipping product !!!! Maybe SMA and Thielert have the right strategy for right now ??? I agree that SMA and Thielert want to pursue a minimum of "customers" and go for critical mass in the marketplace, but that means gearing up to train lots of technicians on new technology. I see a lot of overhead built into thier selling costs to bring service help to stranded engines so these planes can get home. I agree with your position on Innodyn - I feel the same way about Diesel-Air. BTW, the licencee for Diesel-Air here in the US responded to one of my emails saying they expect to retail the DAIR-100 at about $24,000 !!!!! At that price, I'm not a early adopter !! Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/18/2007 8:22:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net writes: Tracy, your observations about some of the new power plant makers not even concerned about the experimental market is interesting. When, after spending considerable sums of money in development, the makers find that the certified manufacturers do not start buying or only one manufacturer seems to get the contracts, you will see them come running to the home-builders to sell whatever they can. One would think that the minimum of red tape to cut in the exp market to be a very attractive incentive. On the other hand you'll not see a more frugal group of people either. That I believe is the reason for ignoring us. The investors want return quickly as possible, and have planned for an adoption by TC manufactures for big contracts. The problem with that strategy, TC manufacturers (in general) are not early adopters of anything, but would rather see an established track record of a given technology before taking a risk with it. On economy/fuel efficiency, I remember reading an article that did a rather good job of breaking down the available energy in the fuels, then comparing it with the efficiencies of the motors. If I find that piece, I'll reference it so everyone can look it up. You are correct, diesel/jet-a/kerosene have more energy per pound. Biggest problem is the reciprocating piston internal combustion engine, is not very efficient at converting that to useable mechanical output. Then there's the weight thing associated with the higher compression combustion needing more robust construction.... My future choice for a power plant is tentatively the innodyn turbine. I'm just hoping they can deliver on the promised technology. AFAICT there have not been too many shipments of product. I wish them well, but won't send any deposit until there are units in the field. Craig Smith (not the other Craig) ____________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith Hello Craig: Not true. Diesels by design and by fuel chemistry deliver more miles per pound of fuel. Rule of thumb: The heavier the fuel the more energy per pound. OK, before all the chemical engineers flame me, I'm just making the comparison that #4 bunker oil that is thick as sludge and has to be moved while hot contains more energy per pound than a light distillate. Diesel fuel and Jet-A (more similiar to kerosene than #2 diesel) have more oomph than gasoline. Gasoline has to run at (approximately) 14.5 to 1 to burn - diesels idle at as little as 100 to 1 and at full power come close to 14 to 1. Many of the old big rigs that have mechanical injection are overfuelled when they belch black smoke because they are running rich...there is not enough oxygen to burn all the fuel. So, whe you are at cruise power, there is always excess oxygen in the cylinder for a complete burn..and the single lever control will see to it. Goodbye mixture knob ! I will be following these light sport diesels very carefully. The Vulcan and the DAIR-100 from the UK look VERY promising. The DAIR is a TWO-STROKE design very similiar to the Fairbanks-Morse design that powered the majority of the old US diesel submarine fleet and are still being made for stationary and marine applications. The DeltaHawk is looking to be a fine design, but just too much for our Zeniths; same for the Thielert. The SMA diesel isn't even looking at the experimental market...is it ? Tracy Smith do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:42 AM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus problems Gents, I got a call from an HDS builder not too far from me who is having problems with his Stratus. I fly with a Corvair, so I am not much help. His engine runs great on climb out, but when he throttles back on downwind, it runs very poorly. I have a hunch that is is a sync problem between his dual bing carbs, but I am not a Subaru guy... I will relay any troubleshooting tips any of you may have. VR/ Brandon Tucker 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 70 hours Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:50 AM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables hi list i am going to put my wing control cables in, and am wondering how you can take the wings off later and disconnect the wing cables. it seems that after you put it together, the cables cannot be easily disconnected for trailer transport. after i get them adjusted, i have to move the airplane by trailer to an acceptable airport for the 40 hour flyoff. it seems that a quick disconnect at the wing roots would solve this problem. any suggestions. john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:08 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith So, acting real casual, like I just wanted to make conversation, I wa lk up next to this guy who knows a lot about diesels, and I very casua lly ask, "what's the horsepower, weight and RPM on one of them there K ubota auxiliary engines?"=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Coprvai r=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: 2thesky =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:10 A M=0A Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith=0A=0A=0A -- ilto:biggerspurs@hotmail.com>>=0A=0A=0A Float Flyr wrote: =0A > One down side could be that diesels are notoriously hard to s tart in cold weather. They do need good size starters and probably he avy batteries.=0A=0A=0A Only diesel engines that aren't pro perly cared for, have fuel pressure problems, or are worn out are hard to start. I currently own five diesel engines and have owned many mo re in the past. Every time I have had a hard to start engine, I have been able to find and fix a problem that corrected the problem of bein g hard to start. You can just crank on it loger, use bigger and more batteries to suck fuel up to the injectors, and that will work and is, in fact, what most folks do, but I have always been able to fix mine so that they start easily through keeping the fuel system in top shape I own one diesel in a Ford F-250 pickup. I also own two tractor tr ailers with big 550 hp engines and smaller diesel powered aux. power u nits on them, too. None of these are hard to start in the cold becaus e they are all equipped with block heaters that keep the coolant warm. When it gets REALLY cold, I also use a heated dipstick that tends to keep the engine oil close to 85 degrees. A!=0A ll of my trucks start just fine in really cold weather. It has been hovering around 0 degrees here for a couple of weeks and all of my trucks started every day with no problems, usually after just a couple of turns of the engi ne. One of my trucks sat outside in North Dakota for three days last week. It started on the third turn. In fact, I drive my diesel picku p more in the cold weather because the oil and coolant is warm all the time, and my car has to start cold. The diesel engines run smooth fr om the start and my car and farm tractor complain to me for the first few seconds. It is my opinion that because of the block and oil heati ng devices, my diesels suffer less wear than my gas engines from cold weather starts. It is simply a matter of plugging it in to a 110 volt electrical outlet at night, or just a couple of hours or so before st arting (depending on the temp). I prefer to leave them plugged in all the time when not in use. For an airplane, I think I would l!=0A eave the block heater off and just use the heated dipstick so! =0A not to =0A=0A add any extra flying weight. To me, that sounds easier than the propane powered pre-heater that I use on the PA -28 I rent now. Just show up at the hangar, unplug and remove the hea ted dipstick, and replace the normal dipstick. You are ready to rock and roll. =0A=0A As for the starters and batteries, both of my semi's are equipped with auxiliary power units so that we don't need t o idle the big engine for overnight stays and still run the heat/AC, p rovide electricity in the sleeper for lights, refrigerator, microwave, engine block heaters, battery charging for the big engine, etc. Thes e units use lighter twin cylinder diesel engines, made by Kubota, and require only a single battery that is lighter than the one in my littl e V-6 powered car. It will spin and start the little Kubotas very eas ily. The starters are pretty much the same as a lawn mower. I doubt that for these lighter aircraft diesels, any huge heavy battery or sta rter would be needed. We do use huge starters on truck diesels, but I think that it is because manufacturers realize that most will allow small air leaks in the fuel system exist. I think these diesels could be great for airplanes if they can just keep the installed weight dow n. I hope by the time I am final!=0A ly ready to start building, I will have a choice of engines that can run on diesel or Jet-A. I l ike it more than gas because of the volatility of gasoline. Also, my auto and truck diesels last a whole heck of a lot longer than my gas engine cars. One of my truck engines has 1.2 million miles on it. I usually run trucks to 1.5 million before trading them in or rebuilding them with meticulous maintenance, of course. I am sure most aircraft owners, particularly folks who built them are very good about mainten ance. I hope that longevity will be the same in aircraft diesels. J ust my opinions.=0A=0A --------=0A Every takeoff is optiona l, but every landing is mandatory!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Read this topic online here:=0A=0A http://forums.matronics.com/view topic.php?p-976#95976 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Test Pilot Thank you. I'll check it out. Darrell Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bima, Martin" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:23 AM Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Test Pilot > > > A really terrific book I have is "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft" by > Vaughan Askue. You should actualy buy (and I mean buy, because if you > borrow it, you will not want to give it back) it before you start > throwing the big parts together because it has quite a bit of info on > ergonomics and modifying the cabin to suit you (and your parachute). > > It is surprisingly thin for what it is, but it has all the good stuff > from the first flight to envelope expansion and developing the numbers > for your aircraft. It is also honest and covers the real dangers (and > risk-reduction) of flying a new plane. > > I do not have anything to gain by plugging this book, other than - .... > I just don't want to lend mine out anymore. > > I am sure that others would agree. > > > Martin Bima > Winnipeg CANADA > 701 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil in air cooled engines From: "billmileski" Things are a little confused here. There is mineral oil, and the remainder is ashless dispersant. Ashless dispersant can be synthetic or petroleum based, or a combination. An example of how Lycoming refers to them can be seen here http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/maintenancePublications/serviceInstructions/SI1014M.pdf Mineral oil is not often the choice for normal, non-break-in operation (see above link). Synthetic is sometimes the oil of choice. Rotax recommends semi-synthetic for all-around use, and full synthetic as long as 100LL is not used more than 30% of the time. This is because fully synthetic oil can have difficulty keeping the large amounts of lead in suspension, leading to accumulation, and bad things, such as potential spalling of gearbox components. I mention the Rotax because clearly not everyone is flying every day and yet semi- or full synthetic remains the manufacturer recommendation. Bill Mileski 701 912S 76hrs > > So true: > > Synthetic oil is great in engines that are used for long periods of time everyday. For everything else, including differentials mineral lube. If you aren't flying a couple of hours every day don't even consider Synthetic oils. > > > > Noel > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'059#96059 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:47 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus problems Brandon, I called Tim this morning and discussed his problem at length. He needed the Bing Carburetor manual and jetting information. I provided Matronics and Bing links, plus files to help him safely disassemble the carburetors and made him aware of other issues, valve guide info, ignition modules (TP45 NAPA), and also dual ignition drawings, etc. It seems his first item of concern was main jet and mid jet sizes and the fact that he needed to temporarily reinstall the foam filters to get a richer mixture to correct excess airflow until he can digest the Bing carb jetting info and sent historical data to make adjustments. He has a very expensive vernier dual throttle cable that he can set up for purely push pull operation, so I doubt his throttle plates are out of sync. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Brandon Tucker wrote: > > Gents, > > I got a call from an HDS builder not too far from > me who is having problems with his Stratus. I fly > with a Corvair, so I am not much help. His engine > runs great on climb out, but when he throttles back on > downwind, it runs very poorly. I have a hunch that is > is a sync problem between his dual bing carbs, but I > am not a Subaru guy... I will relay any > troubleshooting tips any of you may have. > > VR/ > > Brandon Tucker > 601 HDS / TD / Corvair > 70 hours > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Yet another photo assembly guide update From: "PatrickW" I just finished cortecing my flaps yesterday, and will rivet tonight. The new doc is a lot better than the old one. It would have helped me. I really like the way they do the piano hinge. The part about starting drilling from the trailing edge is different too - the old way was "front - bottom - top". I built mine on steel rails, so I wonder if it'll make a difference? Note the photo where they have their control plate installed wrong, next to their suggestion of waiting until the wing is bolted to the fuselage. I can really appreciate the subtle humor there. [Laughing] My control plate is oriented correctly - per the drawings, but there's no way of knowing how far off I am until I get a fuselage. I only drilled the rivet holes and the center hole (not a slot) so hopefully I have enough leeway there. I'm glad they are updating their doc's. I'm happy with how it's all going so far. - Patrick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'063#96063 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:10 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith That would be the Kubota Z-482E rated at 12.5hp at 3600 RPM. Weight? Too heavy for light sport applications but really light for a Big Rig APU. Thanks for asking. Tracy Smith DEFINITELY Do Not Archive. In a message dated 2/19/2007 1:25:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, paulrod36@msn.com writes: So, acting real casual, like I just wanted to make conversation, I walk up next to this guy who knows a lot about diesels, and I very casually ask, "what's the horsepower, weight and RPM on one of them there Kubota auxiliary engines?" Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Coprvair ----- Original Message ----- From: _2thesky_ (mailto:biggerspurs@HOTMAIL.COM) Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Diesel Zenith (mailto:biggerspurs@hotmail.com) > Float Flyr wrote: > One down side could be that diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather. They do need good size starters and probably heavy batteries. Only diesel engines that aren't properly cared for, have fuel pressure problems, or are worn out are hard to start. I currently own five diesel engines and have owned many more in the past. Every time I have had a hard to start engine, I have been able to find and fix a problem that corrected the problem of being hard to start. You can just crank on it loger, use bigger and more batteries to suck fuel up to the injectors, and that will work and is, in fact, what most folks do, but I have always been able to fix mine so that they start easily through keeping the fuel system in top shape. I own one diesel in a Ford F-250 pickup. I also own two tractor trailers with big 550 hp engines and smaller diesel powered aux. power units on them, too None of these are hard to start in the cold because they are all equipped with block heaters that keep the coolant warm. When it gets REALLY cold, I also use a heated dipstick that tends to keep the engine oil close to 85 degrees. A! ll of my trucks start just fine in really cold weather. It has been hovering around 0 degrees here for a couple of weeks and all of my trucks started everyday with no problems, usually after just a couple of turns of the engine. One of my trucks sat outside in North Dakota for three days last week. It started on the third turn. In fact, I drive my diesel pickup more in the cold weather because the oil and coolant is warm all the time, and my car has to start cold. The diesel engines run smooth from the start and my car and farm tractor complain to me for the first few seconds. It is my opinion that because of the block and oil heating devices, my diesels suffer less wear than my gas engines from cold weather starts. It is simply a matter of plugging it in to a 110 volt electrical outlet at night, or just a couple of hours or so before starting (depending on the temp). I prefer to leave them plugged in all the time when not in use. For an airplane, I think I would l! eave the block heater off and just use the heated dipstick so! not to add any extra flying weight. To me, that sounds easier than the propane powered pre-heater that I use on the PA-28 I rent now. Just show up at the hangar, unplug and remove the heated dipstick, and replace the normal dipstick. You are ready to rock and roll. As for the starters and batteries, both of my semi's are equipped with auxiliary power units so that we don't need to idle the big engine for overnight stays and still run the heat/AC, provide electricity in the sleeper for lights, refrigerator, microwave, engine block heaters, battery charging for the big engine, etc. These units use lighter twin cylinder diesel engines, made by Kubota, and require only a single battery that is lighter than the one in my little V-6 powered car. It will spin and start the little Kubotas very easily. The starters are pretty much the same as a lawn mower. I doubt that for these lighter aircraft diesels, any huge heavy battery or starter would be needed. We do use huge starters on truck diesels, but I think that it is because manufacturers realize that most will allow small air leaks in the fuel system exist. I think these diesels could be great for airplanes if they can just keep the installed weight down. I hope by the time I am final! ly ready to start building, I will have a choice of engines that can run on diesel or Jet-A. I like it more than gas because of the volatility of gasoline. Also, my auto and truck diesels last a whole heck of a lot longer than my gas engine cars. One of my truck engines has 1.2 million miles on it. I usually run trucks to 1.5 million before trading them in or rebuilding them with meticulous maintenance, of course. I am sure most aircraft owners, particularly folks who built them are very good about maintenance. I hope that longevity will be the same in aircraft diesels. Just my opinions. -------- Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:37 AM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stratus problems Larry, Your post is the exact reason why I sent him in your direction first. You are and asset to this forum. VR/ Brandon Tucker 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 70 hours Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:39 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus problems Hi Brandon: Maybe not a synch problem, but a mixture problem...... Between 3/4 throttle and WOT, the slides on the Bings are all the way up, pulling the needles (virtually) completely out of the main jets. Engine runs well. BUT, turning downwind the throttle closes and the needles drop into the main jets and now the mixture is controlled by the taper of the needle. There are many different needles available with different tapers, but let's assume the needle is correct. The needle is held in place by a clip installed in the slide, and there are usually three or four different grooves machined into the needle. Installing the needle on the groove nearest the END of the needle puts the needle further INTO the main jet for a given position of the slide, so the mixture is lean. The groove furthest AWAY from the end of the needle pulls the needle OUT of the main jet for a given position of the slide, so the mixture is rich. I'd look at this first. It's easy to check, just handle the diaphragms VERY carefully while pulling the top of the carb off. He'll have to resynch anyway if the throttle adjustments are tampered with as the top comes off..... Good luck. Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 2/19/2007 12:06:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, btucke73@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Gents, I got a call from an HDS builder not too far from me who is having problems with his Stratus. I fly with a Corvair, so I am not much help. His engine runs great on climb out, but when he throttles back on downwind, it runs very poorly. I have a hunch that is is a sync problem between his dual bing carbs, but I am not a Subaru guy... I will relay any troubleshooting tips any of you may have. VR/ Brandon Tucker 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 70 hours ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables From: japhillipsga@aol.com John, you can disconnect the alerion cables at the bell crank. Tie a cord to each and pull them through the wing as you pull the wing away from the fuselage. Then untie the cords once they have cleared the wing. That way you have cords through the wing to re-fish the cables back to the bell crank once the wings are re attached. I have did it without the cords and it is a pain in the butt. The electrics and fuel connections are obvious. Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 104 hours -----Original Message----- From: jdbutterfield@yahoo.com Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables hi list i am going to put my wing control cables in, and am wondering how you can take the wings off later and disconnect the wing cables. it seems that after you put it together, the cables cannot be easily disconnected for trailer transport. after i get them adjusted, i have to move the airplane by trailer to an acceptable airport for the 40 hour flyoff. it seems that a quick disconnect at the wing roots would solve this problem. any suggestions. john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:59 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables hi list i am going to put my wing control cables in, and am wondering how you can take the wings off later and disconnect the wing cables. it seems that after you put it together, the cables cannot be easily disconnected for trailer transport. after i get them adjusted, i have to move the airplane by trailer to an acceptable airport for the 40 hour flyoff. it seems that a quick disconnect at the wing roots would solve this problem. any suggestions. john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca John, I used to work on the F-100 jet fighter,and it had a nice quick disconnect setup for the flight control cables when taking off the aft fuselage section.It was a neat system because you didn't always have to re-set the cable tension.I too would like to do my flyoff at an airport with a long runway(Niagara Falls Int,with a 9800' runway).My home airport is grass and 2100' wth trees.I'm going to check with the guys at EAA Chapter 46 and see if they have ever heard of cable quick disconnects for a small aircraft.I'll post a message if I get any good info. Bob Haring,601XL No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:53 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing attachment /cables Hi Bill, The idea with the cords in the wings to replace the aileron cables is a great one. However, for those who lose the cord or don't have one I can suggest a method to replace the cord. All you need is a long stick, some cord, and maybe some duct tape. You attach the cord to one end of the stick with the duct tape and shove the stick in the path the cable needs to take. You can remove the tape and cord end near the aileron bellcrank and remove the stick. Of course this method won't work if the wing is attached to the fuselage. Paul Washington State At 12:02 PM 2/19/2007, you wrote: >John, you can disconnect the alerion cables at the bell crank. Tie a >cord to each and pull them through the wing as you pull the wing >away from the fuselage. Then untie the cords once they have cleared >the wing. That way you have cords through the wing to re-fish the >cables back to the bell crank once the wings are re attached. I have >did it without the cords and it is a pain in the butt. The electrics >and fuel connections are obvious. Best regards, Bill of Georgia >601XL-3300 104 hours > -- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant From: "Jason" Was hoping some of you 601 XL builders using the Corvair powerplant wouldn't mind sharing some of your plane specifications? I have been reading gobs about the engine and the plane and it seems like a pretty good fit to me, but I keep having one nagging problem and since I don't actually have a plane or any real experience, I was hoping that some of you might share. I was curious what the useful load of a Corvair powered 601XL was? With a full tank, using the Lycoming O-235 as a comparable engine of approximatly the same weight (from the XL specifications page), I'm basically getting that the max take off weight is about 375lbs. This is important to me because my father and I are not small people, we both are over 200lbs and even our most optimal and healthy weight would still have us both over 200lbs. Can anyone speak to this from actual real first hand knowledge? Any feedback greatly appreciated. Jason PS: My calculations were based on 24 gallons of fule on the XL weighing 145lbs. 520-145 = 375lbs avaliable for two passengers. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'098#96098 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:41 PM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Paint I just purchased my basic white paint today for my 601XL and I found a real great buy! I picked up a gallon of Ultraguard urethane which is similar to Imron for only $69 per gallon! Its made in Sheboygan Wisconsin and is used by Oshkosh Truck. Its a full gallon, not 3/4's like Imron. This stuff can be mixed to match any color. I also learned something today from these masters of paint! I asked for the brightest white I could get and they basically talked me out of it! By adding a little grey or blue, you don't need as much paint to cover, and it looks better! I thought white was white, but he brought out about 50 shades! I picked a deep white with a hint of blue instead of the hint of grey. Tower Paint in Oshkosh WI supplies paint to the auto body industry and to factories. I was told they have 5 gal of Ultraguard urethane that was ordered by Leach Truck before they went out of business. It's a light to medium grey and they will sell it for $20 per gallon! If anyone is looking for that color, call 920-235-6520. Joe Scheibinger 601 XL in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:56 PM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Paint I just purchased my basic white paint today for my 601XL and I found a real great buy! I picked up a gallon of Ultraguard urethane which is similar to Imron for only $69 per gallon! Its made in Sheboygan Wisconsin and is used by Oshkosh Truck. Its a full gallon, not 3/4's like Imron. This stuff can be mixed to match any color. I also learned something today from these masters of paint! I asked for the brightest white I could get and they basically talked me out of it! By adding a little grey or blue, you don't need as much paint to cover, and it looks better! I thought white was white, but he brought out about 50 shades! I picked a deep white with a hint of blue instead of the hint of grey. Tower Paint in Oshkosh WI supplies paint to the auto body industry and to factories. I was told they have 5 gal of Ultraguard urethane that was ordered by Leach Truck before they went out of business. It's a light to medium grey and they will sell it for $20 per gallon! If anyone is looking for that color, call 920-235-6520. Joe Scheibinger 601 XL in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:40 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD for sale (official) Listers, so I'm breaking down and selling my 601HD now. I've had an ad up locally for exactly 24 hours and I've already had an interested party. Anyhow here's the laundry list: Zenair Zodiac 601HD. Built in 2005. 50 Hours TT. 80HP Rotax 912 engine. Forward opening tinted canopy (like the XL model) which is much safer than the stock HD side-opening canopy. European cowling system (CZAW) provides better cooling and faster cruise (105 Mph). 3- blade Warp Drive ground-adjustable composite prop with spinner. Full VFR panel with ASI, VSI, ALT, electric turn and bank, Grand Rapids EIS for engine monitoring, ICOM A6 radio, Garmin 176 GPS, 2-place Sigtronics intercom. 2 headsets included. Has both electric elevator and aileron trim. Kuntzelman strobes. External radio antenna. Centre console with 2 12V AUX power outlets. Interior has cabin heat. 16 Gallon header tank with 2 7-gallon wing tanks (30 gallons for long- range flight). Streamlined enclosed wheel boxes. Beautiful white/ black/grey paint job. Over $45,000 invested. Asking $36,500. Call Trevor at 519 448-4816 after 6PM. Registered as Advanced Ultralight in Canada. It's not qualifyable as an LSA in the US but one could do the homebuilt thing... Anyone interested can contact me off-list Lots of pictures here: http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/gallery/ main.php?g2_itemId=1062 Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:53 PM PST US From: "Rich" <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1st Hundred Hours of Building (XL) I'm a above the 400 hours mark and am on the Fuselage sides. Wings done and Tail section done. Rich Simmons 601 XL ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:43 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant Hi Jason, I can't give you the information you ask, but perhaps I can help a little. If you find the corvair engine is too heavy for your use, I suggest you consider using either a Rotax or Jabiru engine. I believe each of these choices is considerably lighter than any cast iron block engine. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage (Jabiru 3300 on order) do not archive At 01:41 PM 2/19/2007, you wrote: > >Was hoping some of you 601 XL builders using the Corvair powerplant >wouldn't mind sharing some of your plane specifications? I have >been reading gobs about the engine and the plane and it seems like a >pretty good fit to me, but I keep having one nagging problem and >since I don't actually have a plane or any real experience, I was >hoping that some of you might share. > >I was curious what the useful load of a Corvair powered 601XL was? > >With a full tank, using the Lycoming O-235 as a comparable engine of >approximatly the same weight (from the XL specifications page), I'm >basically getting that the max take off weight is about 375lbs. > >This is important to me because my father and I are not small >people, we both are over 200lbs and even our most optimal and >healthy weight would still have us both over 200lbs. Can anyone >speak to this from actual real first hand knowledge? > >Any feedback greatly appreciated. > >Jason > >PS: My calculations were based on 24 gallons of fule on the XL >weighing 145lbs. 520-145 = 375lbs avaliable for two passengers. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'098#96098 > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:57 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Trevor & 601 for sale Sure hate to see you sell it......after all the hand-wringing and hard work the least you could do is give everybody a ride. That would take most of the remainder of the year. Best regards, Zed do not archive Smith ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:14 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant Here is a quote from William Wynne's web site about their Corvair-equipped 601xl (look about 3/4s of the way down the page): "Like Gus, Derek is a very burly guy. Together, they weigh more than 500 pounds. But the 601's efficient airframe, and its 44" wide cabin flew both of them in comfort with a good rate of climb. In extreme cases like this, we do not operate the airplane with full fuel. But two FAA sized people could fill up the 24 gallon tanks on the XL, still carry 86 pounds of baggage, and be within gross weight. With the standard Corvair engine, this combination performs very well." http://www.flycorvair.com/601.html -- Craig ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:31 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant After reading Paul's posting on cast iron Corvairs I got real scared and ran out to the hanger to put a magnet on the Corvair block I'm building up with alum cyls. WHEW !!! It had NOT changed into cast iron overnight, it was STILL aluminum. Glad all that work and money to build a lightweight, CHEAP, 100 hp engine had not been destroyed. I put a cover over it thou so any of those cast iron gremlins roaming around wouldn't find it and convert it . I've learned some new stuff today!! LOW&SLOW John Hi Jason, I can't give you the information you ask, but perhaps I can help a little. If you find the corvair engine is too heavy for your use, I suggest you consider using either a Rotax or Jabiru engine. I believe each of these choices is considerably lighter than any cast iron block engine. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage (Jabiru 3300 on order) do not archive At 01:41 PM 2/19/2007, you wrote: > >Was hoping some of you 601 XL builders using the Corvair powerplant >wouldn't mind sharing some of your plane specifications? I have >been reading gobs about the engine and the plane and it seems like a >pretty good fit to me, but I keep having one nagging problem and >since I don't actually have a plane or any real experience, I was >hoping that some of you might share. > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:53 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint That's almost too good of a price for urethane paint.... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Joe" wrote: I just purchased my basic white paint today for my 601XL and I found a r eal great buy! I picked up a gallon of Ultraguard urethane which is similar to Imron for only $69 per gallon! Its made in Sheboygan Wisconsin and is us ed by Oshkosh Truck. Its a full gallon, not 3/4's like Imron. This stuff ca n be mixed to match any color. I also learned something today from these masters of paint! I asked for the brightest white I could get and they basically talked me out of it! By adding a little grey or blue, you don't need as much paint to cover, and it looks better! I thought white was white, but he brought out about 50 sha des! I picked a deep white with a hint of blue instead of the hint of grey. Tower Paint in Oshkosh WI supplies paint to the auto body industry and t o factories. I was told they have 5 gal of Ultraguard urethane that was ordered by Leach Truck before they went out of business. It's a light to medium grey and they will sell it for $20 per gallon! If anyone is looki ng for that color, call 920-235-6520. Joe Scheibinger 601 XL in Oshkosh ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

That's almost too good of a price for urethane paint....

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Joe" <joe@kfiz.com> wrote:
--> ; Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe" < ;joe@kfiz.com>

I just purchased my basic&n bsp;white paint today for my 601XL and&nbs p;I found a real 
great buy! I pic ked up a gallon of Ultraguard urethane&nbs p;which is similar to 
Imron for only&n bsp;$69 per gallon! Its made in Sheboygan& nbsp;Wisconsin and is used 
by Oshkosh  Truck. Its a full gallon, not 3/4's l ike Imron. This stuff can be 
mixed&nbs p;to match any color.

I also learned&nbs p;something today from these masters of pa int! I asked for the 
brightest white&n bsp;I could get and they basically talked& nbsp;me out of it! By 
adding a li ttle grey or blue, you don't need as& nbsp;much paint to cover, and it 
looks  better! I thought white was white, b ut he brought out about 50 shades! I picked a deep white with a hint&n bsp;of blue instead of the hint of gr ey.

Tower Paint in Oshkosh WI supplies&n bsp;paint to the auto body industry and&nb sp;to 
factories. I was told they have& nbsp;5 gal of Ultraguard urethane that was  
ordered by Leach Truck before they&nb sp;went out of business. It's a light  ;to 
medium grey and they will sell&nbs p;it for $20 per gallon! If anyone is  looking 
for that color, call 920-235- 6520.

Joe Scheibinger
601 XL in Oshkosh
_ -======================== ======================== sp;         - NEW  p;content now also available via the Web&n ======================== ===============
________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Prospective 701 flyer - Performance questions From: "StolBrit" Hello Chaps, I've all but made the decision to build a 701, (Quick build, once the European distribution situation and LSA issue settle down), and having absorbed as much as I can from the Zenith website and this forum, I have some questions about the reality of flying the aeroplane. - What's the real world cruise speed and endurance with the standard 20 USG tank fit? Is there any need for the additional 20 USG tanks? - 80 v 100 HP Rotax? Most of Europe (less the Alps) is relatively low! Does the shorter T/O and slightly better cruise outweigh the extra cost and harshness (?) of the 100 Hp engine? - Have many of you fitted a ballistic recovery system? There's a whole bunch of other questions, but I would appreciate your experiences in answering these ones. Regards, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'135#96135 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:54 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon Ron, Gig+All- Glad to hear it. The last thing I wanted to hear after the wing was basically all closed up, the plumbing run, mounting holes drilled, rivnuts installed and everything bought and paid for, that I'd have to tear everything apart and start over. Been there, done that too many times. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon pitot-Ron Lendon > > Bill, > > Gig is right, any pitot will work. I just liked the AOA Dynon tube and do > plan to tune it in. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-929#95929 > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes Larry- Okay, you got me. Farther back toward the tail. I originally planned to only use a belly strobe, but EAA technical brought up the logical question "What about an aircraft above you? On the other hand, I've been caught in fog before and barely kept my composure without the distraction of tip strobes. This fog comes up in a matter of seconds around here- I experienced it again last 4th of July, but luckily I was on the ground. You have to see it to believe it. I suppose you could put a strobe on top of the rudder, but I shudder to think what a retrofit that would be at this point in time! do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes > > Bill, > Aren't you worried that if you put strobes on the turtle deck you'll pick > up extraneous flash within that big bubble. > That might be a bigger distraction. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > > Bill Naumuk wrote: >> All- >> Is there anyone out there that installed belly and/or turtle deck >> strobes? I never wanted them on the wingtips, even before I decided to >> polish, rather than paint. Too distracting. >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuselage >> Townville, Pa >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Strobes Tim- I never had any problem with the belly strobe on my 172, and figure tip strobes on a high wing wouldn't be as much of a factor. Also, the Hawk was painted, not polished. Do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Strobes > > Turtle deck? Do you mean behind the canopy? That is the last place I > would put a strobe. You'll notice that rudder mounted strobes are > typically masked to flash only toward the rear 270 of arc. > > I haven't finished my XL but I've had experience with strobes in a bunch > of other locations. Generally I found the belly or wingtips to be the > least distracting, although I had to mask off the globe of the belly > strobe to avoid flashing the arc of the prop. The wingtip strobes on my > 182 were only a problem if I forgot and left them on entering clouds. > > I too am curious whether the placement of the strobes on the XL causes any > distraction. Chime in guys. > > Tim > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-845#95845 > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:14 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Test Pilot I'll second that. It's a very good book on test flying. On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Bima, Martin wrote: > > > A really terrific book I have is "Flight Testing Homebuilt > Aircraft" by > Vaughan Askue. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:16 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes It doesn't matter where the strobes are mounted, if you fly into clouds, they will reflect back at you. Just reach out and shut them off. The wingtips are probably the least distracting place for them. And since they need to be visible from all directions around the plane, the wingtips are probably the most convenient place to mount them unless you are retrofitting them into an already completed airframe. On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > Is there anyone out there that installed belly and/or turtle > deck strobes? I never wanted them on the wingtips, even before I > decided to polish, rather than paint. Too distracting. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:42 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes dude, if the glare bugs you, put a fairing, made with a peice of metal to block the light from glaring back to the cock pit. lots of the older planes have them.Option, shut them of and don't use, option three put a big red one on tail bottom, option four, is there an option four? get up and fly and don't worry bout it. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Naumuk >Sent: Feb 19, 2007 7:01 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes > > >Larry- > Okay, you got me. Farther back toward the tail. > I originally planned to only use a belly strobe, but EAA technical >brought up the logical question "What about an aircraft above you? On the >other hand, I've been caught in fog before and barely kept my composure >without the distraction of tip strobes. This fog comes up in a matter of >seconds around here- I experienced it again last 4th of July, but luckily I >was on the ground. You have to see it to believe it. > I suppose you could put a strobe on top of the rudder, but I shudder to >think what a retrofit that would be at this point in time! > do not archive >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuselage >Townville, Pa >----- Original Message ----- >From: "LarryMcFarland" >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:41 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Strobes > > >> >> Bill, >> Aren't you worried that if you put strobes on the turtle deck you'll pick >> up extraneous flash within that big bubble. >> That might be a bigger distraction. >> >> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> do not archive >> >> >> Bill Naumuk wrote: >>> All- >>> Is there anyone out there that installed belly and/or turtle deck >>> strobes? I never wanted them on the wingtips, even before I decided to >>> polish, rather than paint. Too distracting. >>> Bill Naumuk >>> HDS Fuselage >>> Townville, Pa >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:28 PM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus problems There are some other factors that might be at work. I am about thirty hours into the test program for my 601HD with a Stratus Suburu. Carb synch is very important and can be hard to do. I originally synched mine on the ground with a motorcycle flow gage. The problem was since I didn't want to stand next to the engine with the prop on I could only do this at idle. I also checked it during the flight test for start of movement. What can be a complicating factor is the motor mounts. I made a change in my thrust angle and found that my engine did not as smoothly at midrange. I checked the plugs for similar burn and checked the needles. I finally realized that the spacer I put behind my upper left motor mount caused that carb to be a little ahead of the right carb. Readjusting the cable restored the performance. As the original post notes full power is fine because both carbs are at their stops midrange depends on the cables. I am thinking of making a velocity sensor that could be mounted on the carbs so they could to check under load with the mounds deformed , but that is still a thought in progress. The root problem seem to be the throttle design for the dual carbs, if there is plenty of slack in the cables engine movement won't be a factor, but I know on mine it is. Tim Shankland Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > Hi Brandon: > > Maybe not a synch problem, but a mixture problem...... > > Between 3/4 throttle and WOT, the slides on the Bings are all the way > up, pulling the needles (virtually) completely out of the main jets. > Engine runs well. BUT, turning downwind the throttle closes and the > needles drop into the main jets and now the mixture is controlled by > the taper of the needle. There are many different needles available > with different tapers, but let's assume the needle is correct. The > needle is held in place by a clip installed in the slide, and there > are usually three or four different grooves machined into the > needle. Installing the needle on the groove nearest the END of the > needle puts the needle further INTO the main jet for a given position > of the slide, so the mixture is lean. The groove furthest AWAY from > the end of the needle pulls the needle OUT of the main jet for a given > position of the slide, so the mixture is rich. > > I'd look at this first. It's easy to check, just handle the > diaphragms VERY carefully while pulling the top of the carb > off. He'll have to resynch anyway if the throttle adjustments are > tampered with as the top comes off..... > > Good luck. > > Tracy Smith > Do Not Archive > > > In a message dated 2/19/2007 12:06:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, > btucke73@yahoo.com writes: > > > Gents, > > I got a call from an HDS builder not too far from > me who is having problems with his Stratus. I fly > with a Corvair, so I am not much help. His engine > runs great on climb out, but when he throttles back on > downwind, it runs very poorly. I have a hunch that is > is a sync problem between his dual bing carbs, but I > am not a Subaru guy... I will relay any > troubleshooting tips any of you may have. > > VR/ > > Brandon Tucker > 601 HDS / TD / Corvair > 70 hours > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: "Half Deep" Rivets...? From: "PatrickW" Need some advice here. There is not enough distance depth-wise across the narrow trailing edge of my flaps to allow for two rivets to fit butt-to-butt. One rivet is to be installed from the top skin of the flap. The other rivet is to be installed from the bottom skin of the flap. The problem is that the holes (factory drilled) in the top skin line up perfectly with the holes on the bottom skin. Installation of a rivet in either the top side or the bottom does not allow enough space for installation of the rivet on the opposite side. Hence my question: is there such a thing as a "half deep" rivet? Ideas...? - Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'169#96169 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: "Half Deep" Rivets...? From: "Tim Juhl" I assume you've test pulled a rivet in a piece of aluminum of the same thickness to determine what the final length will be. Also, I believe A5's are called for but you could probably use a A4 which wouldn't be as long. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'177#96177 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:52 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL w/ Corvair PowerPlant John, You freakin' kill me... And you beat me to the punch... VR/ Brandon 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 70 hours - a few of them with two 200+ lb fat asses on board. Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: "Half Deep" Rivets...? From: "PatrickW" Great ideas. Thank you! Here's what I did - hope it helps the next guy who reads this: I installed A4 rivets on the line at the trailing edge of the flap. Did the ones on the top skin first to present a better "fit & finish", and then set the bottom ones in place "crooked". The A4's are slightly shorter than the A5's, and where there simply was not enough room for A5's, there was enough room for A4's if the A4's were slanted over to one side in the larger A5 holes. As the rivet gun pulled the A4's, they straightened out as their length decreased, and they ended up flush. - Patrick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'187#96187 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:58 PM PST US From: Josh Wilson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Half Deep" Rivets...? The last rivets in the top and bottom of the flap skins are offset a few mm. Although this doesn't help much if you've already drilled the holes I guess.... --- PatrickW wrote: > > > Need some advice here. > > There is not enough distance depth-wise across the > narrow trailing edge of my flaps to allow for two > rivets to fit butt-to-butt. > > One rivet is to be installed from the top skin of > the flap. The other rivet is to be installed from > the bottom skin of the flap. The problem is that > the holes (factory drilled) in the top skin line up > perfectly with the holes on the bottom skin. > > Installation of a rivet in either the top side or > the bottom does not allow enough space for > installation of the rivet on the opposite side. > > Hence my question: is there such a thing as a "half > deep" rivet? > > Ideas...? > > - Patrick > > 601XL/Corvair > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'169#96169 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:14 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: 701 long wing At 12:58 AM 2/17/2007, you wrote: >Does anyone have any information on the construction of the longer >wing?? Hi John and list, I don't know how the European long wing for the 701 is made, but I have a sketch from Chris H in answer to my request to stretch each wing by one foot. His note says: "To retain full strength the web doubler 7V2-6SP should be T = .040 ( instead of .032) and longer." The sketch shows the web doubler made longer by a minimum of 160 mm.( 80 mm inboard and 80 mm outboard.) The top outboard corner has an AN3 bolt with an AD-4 rivet inboard of it on the 80mm extension. There are also two AD-4 rivets on each of the other three corners of the new web doubler. My sketch is several years old and I'm sure that Zenith has done work on the new CH750 since then so they should have better and more complete information now. My advice would be to contact Zenith and request approval and advice on the mod you are considering. Chris's note doesn't address the details of adding a foot to each wing . If I do the mod, my plan is to rebuild the wings from the last rib on out and I'll add a rib. My situation is that my field elevation is 4000 ft. and I'd like to operate at altitudes that approach the service ceiling of the 701. My power is an old A80-8 Continental which is also anemic at high altitudes. I think the extra wing area will help so I'm seriously considering the mod. If you've got lots of horses up front or are operating at lower altitudes, I'm not sure that the mod makes sense as the 701 seems to be a well balanced airplane as it is. The down side to any mod , of course , is that you'll add weight and much time to the project and you'll be the test pilot on the prototype, so you won't have the safety cushion that you get from a proven design with lots of safe hours. Please let me know what you decide to do. Good Luck! Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.