Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Re: wow... web site usage. (ashontz)
2. 05:50 AM - Newbie Questions (John C. Edwards)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Re: Engines (Bryan Martin)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: Re: Engines (n801bh@netzero.com)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: wow... web site usage. (Bryan Martin)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Re: Engines (n801bh@netzero.com)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: wow... web site usage. (ZodieRocket)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Re: Engines (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 07:50 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (Bryan Martin)
10. 08:24 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (John C. Edwards)
11. 08:58 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (Tim Juhl)
12. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Re: Engines (BadBob)
13. 10:50 AM - Re: CH701 Landing Lights (alex_001)
14. 10:53 AM - Re: CH701 Landing Lights (alex_001)
15. 11:01 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (Terry Phillips)
16. 11:23 AM - Registration (Jaybannist@cs.com)
17. 11:37 AM - Re: Registration (R.P.)
18. 11:52 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (Jeff)
19. 11:58 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (NYTerminat@aol.com)
20. 12:07 PM - Re: Registration (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 12:31 PM - Re: Jury struts (Mike Hoffman)
22. 12:33 PM - Re: 701 Jury Struts (Mike Hoffman)
23. 12:49 PM - Re: Registration (Bryan Martin)
24. 02:53 PM - Fw: THE NEW BENZ (Richard Cottingham)
25. 03:00 PM - Good tip (wade jones)
26. 03:26 PM - Registration (Jaybannist@cs.com)
27. 03:34 PM - Re: Good tip (NYTerminat@aol.com)
28. 03:45 PM - Scratch building Update (Ron Lendon)
29. 03:49 PM - Zenith List:The New Benz [Off Topic] (Richard Cottingham)
30. 04:00 PM - XL - Wing root trimming (Tim Juhl)
31. 04:35 PM - Re: Zenith List:The New Benz [Off Topic] (Randy Stout)
32. 04:35 PM - Re: XL - Wing root trimming (george may)
33. 04:46 PM - Re: Good tip (Lynn & Nancy)
34. 08:09 PM - Registration related (Brad DeMeo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wow... web site usage. |
Tim Juhl wrote:
> As an official "old geezer" (started my career before computers and ended it
as a school tech director) I must say that the web is a wonderful thing. Sure
there is a lot of junk out there but when you sift thru the sites there is an
incredible amount of info available. Sites like yours are a great help to those
of us who are building (or contemplating) building an aircraft. I ran a
network link for my laptop out to my workshop so I can study selected builders
sites when I bump into a question or obstacle. Builder's sites and this discussion
group make building so much easier than it would have been before the internet
age. Thanks to all for sharing!
>
> Tim
I used to be down on the Internet. When it first came out it seemed like a glorified
Yellow Pages to me. It is pretty amazing how much valuable info is out there
though. I'm surprised the government hasn't shut it down yet considering
the amount of factual information that flies in the face of their mainstream media
propaganda machine.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97178#97178
Message 2
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| Subject: | Newbie Questions |
I just joined this group in search of answers to a couple of questions on
the 601 XL. My apologies if these are answered somewhere on the
zenithair.com website, but I was unable to find them, and my questions
submitted to the website went unanswered. (I guess they are busy).
I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how things go
before purchasing a Quick Build kit. (First time builder). Is there any
difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail kit? I
assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I finally
order. Is that true?
My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine choices.
I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version of the
Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain about the
Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any concerns or
other suggestions?
Thanks,
John Edwards
Tool gathering
Message 3
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Those numbers will come down a bit when you take into account the
forward speed of the airplane. But still, that would be one noisy
airplane. Ben's neighbors must really love him. :)
On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:24 PM, BadBob wrote:
>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 12:53 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>>
>> I have had my prop at 1.2 mach. In fact it gets over mach
>> everytime I
>> fl
>> y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Ivo. 160+ hours and the
>> tips look
>> as good as the day I installed them.
>> do not archive
>
> WOW!!! At 70 degrees F that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at Mach 1.2
> that
> is around 4100rpm! I am surprised that the prop can take that!
>
> Bob from Oregon. :-)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 4
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I should clarify that the 1.2 number was from my 84" blades at -31 f her
e in Jackson Hole. Take 4700 motor rpm , redrive ratio of 1.43-1 = 321
6.78, Whats that mach number ?? I haven't seen 70 degrees since last oc
t.. <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net> wrote:
=C2=A8I have had my prop at 1.2 mach. In fact it gets over mach everytim
e I
fl
y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Ivo. 160+ hours and the tips look
as good as the day I installed them.=C2=A8
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
WOW!!! At 70 degrees F that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at Mach 1.2 that
is around 4100rpm! I am surprised that the prop can take that!
Bob from Oregon. :-)
========================
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<html><P>I should clarify that the 1.2 number was from my 84" blades at
-31 f here in Jackson Hole. Take 4700 motor rpm , redrive ratio of 1.43-
1 = 3216.78, Whats that mach number ?? I haven't seen 70 degrees
since last oct.. <G></P>
<P>do not archive <BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspo
werair.com<BR><BR>-- BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net>&n
bsp;wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted by:&
nbsp;BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net><BR><BR>=C2=A8I ha
ve had my prop at 1.2 mach. In f
act it gets over mach everytime I<BR>fl<BR
>y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Iv
o. 160+ hours and the tips look<BR> a
s good as the day I installed them.=C2
=A8<BR>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>ww
w.haaspowerair.com<BR><BR>WOW!!! At 70 degrees F&nbs
p;that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at
Mach 1.2 that<BR>is around 4100rpm! I&nbs
p;am surprised that the prop can take 
========================
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sp; - The Zenith-List Email F
p;List utilities such as the Subscriptions 
========================
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- NEW MATRONICS WEB&n
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wow... web site usage. |
There's also a lot of bulls**t out there in the internet, you have to
learn how to sort the good from the bad. But I guess that applies to
most things.
On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:55 AM, ashontz wrote:
> I used to be down on the Internet. When it first came out it seemed
> like a glorified Yellow Pages to me. It is pretty amazing how much
> valuable info is out there though. I'm surprised the government
> hasn't shut it down yet considering the amount of factual
> information that flies in the face of their mainstream media
> propaganda machine.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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Thats why I don't run the 84" blades anymore at those speeds. Close ne
ighbors to the airport are mostly motorheads so the engine itself is mus
ic to them. The real issue is JAC is the only airport located in a Natio
nal park and us locals do try to keep the racket down to a mininum.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
t>
Those numbers will come down a bit when you take into account the
forward speed of the airplane. But still, that would be one noisy
airplane. Ben's neighbors must really love him. :)
On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:24 PM, BadBob wrote:
>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 12:53 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>>
>> =A8I have had my prop at 1.2 mach. In fact it gets over mach
>> everytime I
>> fl
>> y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Ivo. 160+ hours and the
>> tips look
>> as good as the day I installed them.=A8
>> do not archive
>
> WOW!!! At 70 degrees F that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at Mach 1.2
> that
> is around 4100rpm! I am surprised that the prop can take that!
>
> Bob from Oregon. :-)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
========================
===========
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===========
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===========
<html><P>Thats why I don't run the 84" blades anymore at those spee
ds. Close neighbors to the airport are mostly motorheads so
the engine itself is music to them. The real issue is JAC is the only ai
rport located in a National park and us locals do try to keep the racket
down to a mininum.</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net&
gt; wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted 
;by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net><BR><BR
>Those numbers will come down a bit w
hen you take into account the
<BR>forward speed of the airplane. But sti
ll, that would be one noisy <BR>airp
lane. Ben's neighbors must really love&nb
sp;him. :)<BR><BR>On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:24
PM, BadBob wrote:<BR>><BR>>> On Feb&n
bsp;25, 2007, at 12:53 AM, n801bh@netzero.com&n
bsp;wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> =A8I have had my&
nbsp;prop at 1.2 mach. In fact it get
s over mach <BR>>> everytime I<BR>&
gt;> fl<BR>>> y. 76" three blade
inflight adjustable Ivo. 160+ hours and th
e <BR>>> tips look<BR>>> as&
nbsp;good as the day I installed them.=A8<
BR>>> do not archive<BR>><BR>> WOW!!!&nb
sp;At 70 degrees F that is 3400rpm fo
r Mach 1.0 and at Mach 1.2 <BR>
> that<BR>> is around 4100rpm! I am&
nbsp;surprised that the prop can take that
!<BR>><BR>> Bob from Oregon. :-)<BR><BR>--&nbs
p;<BR>Bryan Martin<BR>N61BM, CH 601 XL,<BR>RAM
Subaru, Stratus redrive.<BR>do not archive.<BR><BR><
========================
- The Ze
atronics List Features Navigator to browse<BR>_
-= the many List utilities such as
sp; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Lis
========================
sp; - NE
at content now also available via the 
========================
=================</P>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wow... web site usage. |
Bryan , is it truly that much different then walking into the old timers
hanger and listening to the stories there? You all know that hanger, it
is the gathering place of friends, some who know it all and others who
have done it all. IT is just easier to separate the B.S. when you can
see the mouth it come out of then when it is written on the web. But in
most cases it all has a tidbit of usefulness.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
There's also a lot of bulls**t out there in the internet, you have to
learn how to sort the good from the bad. But I guess that applies to
most things.
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
--
2/24/2007 8:14 PM
--
2/24/2007 8:14 PM
Message 8
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My bad,,,, the real speed is 106%,
let the flame wars begin........
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
I should clarify that the 1.2 number was from my 84" blades at -31 f her
e in Jackson Hole. Take 4700 motor rpm , redrive ratio of 1.43-1 = 321
6.78, Whats that mach number ?? I haven't seen 70 degrees since last oc
t.. <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net> wrote:
=C2=A8I have had my prop at 1.2 mach. In fact it gets over mach everytim
e I
fl
y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Ivo. 160+ hours and the tips look
as good as the day I installed them.=C2=A8
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
WOW!!! At 70 degrees F that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at Mach 1.2 that
is around 4100rpm! I am surprised that the prop can take =====
========================
===================sp; - The Ze
nith-List Email Fp;List utilities such as the Subscriptions ====
========================
==================== - NEW
MATRONICS WEB&n===================
========================
============
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
<html><P>My bad,,,, the real speed is 106%,</P>
<P>let the flame wars begin........</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
wrote:<BR></P>
<P>I should clarify that the 1.2 number was from my 84" blades at -31 f
here in Jackson Hole. Take 4700 motor rpm , redrive ratio of 1.43-1 =
3216.78, Whats that mach number ?? I haven't seen 70 degrees since
last oct.. <G></P>
<P>do not archive <BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspo
werair.com<BR><BR>-- BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net>&n
bsp;wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted by:&
nbsp;BadBob <badbob0007@earthlink.net><BR><BR>=C2=A8I ha
ve had my prop at 1.2 mach. In f
act it gets over mach everytime I<BR>fl<BR
>y. 76" three blade inflight adjustable Iv
o. 160+ hours and the tips look<BR> a
s good as the day I installed them.=C2
=A8<BR>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>ww
w.haaspowerair.com<BR><BR>WOW!!! At 70 degrees F&nbs
p;that is 3400rpm for Mach 1.0 and at
Mach 1.2 that<BR>is around 4100rpm! I&nbs
p;am surprised that the prop can take 
;========================
========================
sp; - The Zenith-List Email F
p;List utilities such as the Subscriptions 
;========================
========================
- NEW MATRONICS WEB&a
mp;n=======================
========================
=========</P><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier
" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
========================
===========
tronics.com</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
The quick build kit comes with the tail already riveted together.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
The standard tail kit now comes with horizontal tail skins pre-
drilled. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html
There is also the starter kit, which includes just the rudder. I
assume this is much like it's always been, where you have to drill
and deburr all the holes yourself and trim the skins to fit. This kit
is designed to introduce the builder to the skills needed to build
the rest of the airplane. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/rudder.html
You can buy the rudder kit or attend the rudder workshop to see if
you really want to build the rest of the plane. Then if you decide to
continue, you can order the quick build kit and Zenith can send it
minus the rudder and deduct the cost of the rudder so you can install
your already completed rudder.
The nice thing about Zenith is you can scratch build the whole plane
from plans or scratch build part of it and order any parts you would
rather not scratch build or build from component kits or any
combination of these.
As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on
registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no
difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to
have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with
the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.
The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.
On Feb 25, 2007, at 8:49 AM, John C. Edwards wrote:
> I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how
> things go
> before purchasing a Quick Build kit. (First time builder). Is
> there any
> difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail
> kit? I
> assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I
> finally
> order. Is that true?
>
> My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine
> choices.
> I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version
> of the
> Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain
> about the
> Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any
> concerns or
> other suggestions?
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Newbie Questions |
> As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on
> registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no
> difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to
> have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with
> the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.
> The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.
Thanks Bryan,
As I understand it now, the engine manufacturing operating instructions on
limiting the use to VFR only (e.g. Rotax 912UL) applies to S-LSA and not
E-LSA. Great! The more I learn about experimental aircraft, the more I
like.
Thanks for the information on the tail kit also. I just completed the EAA
Sports Air workshop on sheet metal, so I was ready to go beyond the rudder
and onto the full tail assembly. But considering it's already riveted on
the QBK, I might as well go for the QBK and be in the air that much sooner.
John Edwards
N5806L - KCOI
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
I took the EAA Sheet metal workshop and a rudder workshop at CanZac in neighboring
Ontario. I found the rudder workshop to be more helpful in understanding
what I was getting into regarding building an XL, whereas the EAA class taught
me some techniques (dimpling, flush riveting, etc.) that I have also found helpful.
One tool I added that is not on the ZAC list is a rivet squeezer with
a mix of squeeze dies and dimplers. One benefit of the rudder kit is you get
exposed to reading and interpreting the plans and pictorial guide that ZAC uses
for the building process.
Why don't you try the rudder kit or better yet, attend a class? I think it would help and you would pick up some good info. Also, visit www.ch601.org - there is good stuff there, especially how to cut aluminum with an Olfa knife (thanks David & Mark!)
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97217#97217
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Engines |
I show 3200rpm if my math is correct. Thats still Mach 1.146.....thats
amazing! I have never had to figure Mach at temps that cold!!
BBRRRRRRRR!!! LOL
Bob in Oregon
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Landing Lights |
i have installed 12v halogen bulbs from home on my 601 same could be done on 701
mounted them in a perspex housing total costs 3,--usd
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97232#97232
Attachments:
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Landing Lights |
pic 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97233#97233
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
I just started putting together my slow-build rudder kit which I picked up
at the factory in November 2006. The main spar and the trailing edge skin
have prepunched pilot holes for all the rivets. The pilot holes and the
holes in the ribs, doublers, and nose skin are drilled out and deburred
before riveting. If you do not attend the rudder workshop, the MetalWorking
101 DVD from HomebuiltHELP.com is an excellent resource to introduce
novices to building. It is well worth the cost.
At 10:50 AM 2/25/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>The quick build kit comes with the tail already riveted together.
>http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
>
>The standard tail kit now comes with horizontal tail skins pre- drilled.
>http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html
>
>There is also the starter kit, which includes just the rudder. I
>assume this is much like it's always been, where you have to drill
>and deburr all the holes yourself and trim the skins to fit. This kit
>is designed to introduce the builder to the skills needed to build
>the rest of the airplane. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/rudder.html
>
>You can buy the rudder kit or attend the rudder workshop to see if
>you really want to build the rest of the plane. Then if you decide to
>continue, you can order the quick build kit and Zenith can send it
>minus the rudder and deduct the cost of the rudder so you can install
>your already completed rudder.
>
>The nice thing about Zenith is you can scratch build the whole plane
>from plans or scratch build part of it and order any parts you would
>rather not scratch build or build from component kits or any
>combination of these.
>
>As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on
>registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no
>difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to
>have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with
>the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.
>The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.
>
>
>On Feb 25, 2007, at 8:49 AM, John C. Edwards wrote:
>
>>I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how
>>things go
>>before purchasing a Quick Build kit. (First time builder). Is
>>there any
>>difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail
>>kit? I
>>assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I
>>finally
>>order. Is that true?
>>
>>My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine
>>choices.
>>I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version
>>of the
>>Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain
>>about the
>>Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any
>>concerns or
>>other suggestions?
>
>
>--
>Bryan Martin
>N61BM, CH 601 XL,
>RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
>do not archive.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
Just starting a 601 kit
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Listers, a question:
It is my understanding that iIf a Zodiac 601XL is registered "Experimental," it
can be flown as an LSA or as any other experimental airplane and the builder
can do all the maintenance by filling out a form.
If it is registered "E-LSA," it can be flown only as an LSA and the builder must
attend a course on maintenance to qualify to do maintenance.
Why would anyone register a 601XL as E-LSA?
Jay in Dallas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Registration |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Registration
>
> Listers, a question:
> It is my understanding that iIf a Zodiac 601XL is registered
> "Experimental," it can be flown as an LSA or as any other experimental
> airplane and the builder can do all the maintenance by filling out a form.
>
> If it is registered "E-LSA," it can be flown only as an LSA and the
> builder must attend a course on maintenance to qualify to do maintenance.
>
> Why would anyone register a 601XL as E-LSA?
>
> Jay in Dallas
The only advantage(?) that I can see in Exp-LSA is *possibly* for resale.
The new owner can attend the maintenance course for Exp-LSA and do his own
yearly condition inspection instead of hiring an A&P mechanic. You can't do
that with Exp-AB (amatuer built).
Rick Pitcher
Zodiac 601HD/ Exp-AB
Message 18
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| Subject: | Newbie Questions |
RE: My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine
choices. I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version
of the Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain
about the Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any
concerns orother suggestions?
Pete answered this way previously:
"This email below is factually incorrect regarding flying Jabiru engines at
night. The only application of JAR22H engine certification in the USA is
for Primary Category Aircraft under 750 kg. Primary category aircraft under
750 kg can use a JAR22H engine if limited to day VFR.
JAR22H does not come into play in the LSA area. Engines are compliant to
ASTM F2339.
Jabiru engines used in experimental amateur built aircraft can be flown in
any condition that the aircraft operating limitations allow, night usually
being one of them. Under a LSA certificate there is no prohibition on the
part of Jabiru against night operation. There is no specific prohibition in
the FAR's prohibiting night flight in S-LSA aircraft. The implied
restriction is in the certificate in that it is based on ASTM F2245-04. It
is stated in the scope of that standard that it applies to LSA aircraft
operated day VFR.
To be clear - it is not the Jabiru engine that limits an aircraft to day
VFR.
Pete"
You can find this post and the thread leading up to it in the archives.
Jeff Davidson
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
In a message dated 2/25/2007 11:25:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jedwards@digital.net writes:
Thanks Bryan,
As I understand it now, the engine manufacturing operating instructions on
limiting the use to VFR only (e.g. Rotax 912UL) applies to S-LSA and not
E-LSA. Great! The more I learn about experimental aircraft, the more I
like.
I just read an article in the Atlantic Flyer that Rotax is removing the
night restriction from their UL/ Uls version of their uncertified engines and
just calling it VFR. Feb 07 issue page 31.
Bob Spudis
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: Registration |
Hi Jay,
As always, there are trade-offs.
The issue regarding maintenance is actually a little better than your
comments suggest. Anyone can work on any experimental aircraft no
matter whether it is E-LSA or E-AB. The regulations get involved
when it comes to signing off the annual condition inspection. This
can always be done by an A&P with appropriate license. In the case
of E-AB it can also be done by the builder if he has the repairman's
certificate that can only be issued to the builder. For E-LSA there
is a similar certificate that can be earned by attending a 2 day
class. In this case you don't have to be the builder, but I think
you need to be the owner.
There is no 51% rule for E-LSA certificate. The other difference I
know about is the number of hours needed to fly off the Phase 1
flight testing. This is 25 or 40 hours for E-AB certificated
planes. I have seen E-LSA get as little as 5 hours of Phase 1 flight
test requirement. This is the amount of flight testing you need to
do before carrying passengers or leaving the limited flight test area.
One last point. The question of flying "as LSA" doesn't need to
consider how the plane is certified. It only matters that the
performance and other qualities qualify the plane as meeting the LSA
requirements. A Sport Pilot or higher licensed pilot flying under
Sport Pilot privileges can fly any plane that meets the LSA
definition. Similarly, a plane with an E-LSA certificate can be
flown at night or IFR if properly equipped.
Have fun,
Paul
XL fuselage
>
>Listers, a question:
>It is my understanding that iIf a Zodiac 601XL is registered
>"Experimental," it can be flown as an LSA or as any other
>experimental airplane and the builder can do all the maintenance by
>filling out a form.
>
>If it is registered "E-LSA," it can be flown only as an LSA and the
>builder must attend a course on maintenance to qualify to do maintenance.
>
>Why would anyone register a 601XL as E-LSA?
>
>Jay in Dallas
-
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Thanks Brett, I e-mailed Zenith with my question, appears you and I are the only
people that had this problem. I wish more people would jump in on this so I
don't have to wait for ZAC to answer back.
Mike H
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97259#97259
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Jury Struts |
Hello, any body out there that can help??
:?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97260#97260
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| Subject: | Re: Registration |
It might be a little bit easier to sell an E-LSA than an E-AB because
the new owner can obtain certification to perform the annual
inspections without having to be an A&P mechanic. The night and IFR
restrictions apply to the Sport Pilot not to the Sport Aircraft. A
sport pilot may not fly at night or IFR. A sport aircraft, if
properly equipped (and, for S-LSA, approved by the airframe and
engine manufacturers) can be flown at night or in IFR.
http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=24
Question :
Who can perform maintenance and inspections on an E-LSA?
Answer :
Anyone can perform maintenance, repair, or modification on an
experimental light-sport aircraft. No certificate or rating of any
kind is required.
The annual condition inspection on E-LSA can be completed by:
a) A repairman (light-sport aircraft) with a maintenance rating; or
b) A repairman (light-sport aircraft) with a inspection rating on
aircraft owned by the repairman; or
c) An appropriately rated mechanic (A&P), or
d) An appropriately rated repair station.
http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=540
Question :
i am building a kitplane which has been approved for the 51 % rule. i
would like to know what all the pros and cons are whether to finally
register it as e-ab or e-lsa.
Answer :
The only difference of any consequence in certification of the
aircraft as either experimental amateur-built or experimental LSA is
the issue of the repairman certificate. This certificate is necessary
if an individual wishes to perform the condition inspection each year
as required by the aircraft's operating limitations. (No certificate
of any kind is necessary in order to perform maintenance, repair, or
modification.)
Here's the deal:
For amateur-built aircraft, only the original primary builder is
eligible for the repairman certificate. There is no training
requirement. The individual simply needs to prove that he/she is the
original primary builder of the aircraft. No subsequent owners are
eligible, so they would have to have an A&P mechanic perform the
condition inspection each year.
For ELSA, the owner must attend a 16 hour course of instruction and
pass a test in order to be eligible for the repairman certificate.
This is true regardless of whether the person built the aircraft or
not. Even the original builder would have to take this course.
However, subsequent owners would be eligible for the repairman
certificate after passing the 16 hour course, even though they had
nothing to do with the building of the aircraft.
Yes, it is true that you must have the certification completed by 31
January 2008 in order to certificate the aircraft as ELSA. There is
no deadline for amateur-built certification, but you must be able to
prove that amateur-builders did the major portion of the fabrication
and assembly tasks.
Other than the repairman certificate issue, there is no operational
difference in ELSA as compared to amateur-built.
On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:21 PM, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> Listers, a question:
> It is my understanding that iIf a Zodiac 601XL is registered
> "Experimental," it can be flown as an LSA or as any other
> experimental airplane and the builder can do all the maintenance by
> filling out a form.
>
> If it is registered "E-LSA," it can be flown only as an LSA and the
> builder must attend a course on maintenance to qualify to do
> maintenance.
>
> Why would anyone register a 601XL as E-LSA?
>
> Jay in Dallas
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Fw: THE NEW BENZ |
Message
THE NEW BENZ
!
The new Benz - Very different....really different ! ...SCROLL DOWN...
This is the new Mercedes Benz SCL600.
This car is really different.
That's not what is different about it.
That either.
.....and now for the 'really different' part:
Here is what is different.
No steering wheel, you drive it with a joystick. No pedals either.
Can you drive with a joystick? Your kids and grandkids probably can.
The influence of video games in our lives has really arrived, wouldn't
ya say?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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do not archive
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Hello group ,I am a little slow thinking .I have been plans building for
seven months and during that time I must make at least 8 or 10 trips
daily from the shop to my computer to look at the CD . I have cut out
this time robbing step by printing the assembly CD into a three hole
binder to keep in my shop . I am too cheap to buy a used computer for
this and my shop is getting crowded .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 26
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Listers,
Thanks to all who replied to my question about E-LSA vs Experimental. There were
some aspects that I was not aware of; and others that I knew about, but hadn't
thought through the implications.
You all came through again and proved the value of this list.
Thanks again!
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
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Wade
I had printed out each section too. Much easier to take the paper to your
parts than taking your parts to the computer. I still had an old computer in the
shop, good for e-mail and ordering parts.
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 2/25/2007 6:01:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
wjones@brazoriainet.com writes:
Hello group ,I am a little slow thinking .I have been plans building for
seven months and during that time I must make at least 8 or 10 trips daily from
the shop to my computer to look at the CD . I have cut out this time
robbing step by printing the assembly CD into a three hole binder to keep in my
shop . I am too cheap to buy a used computer for this and my shop is getting
crowded .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Scratch building Update |
Finally got the LE mistake fixed and am ready to rivet the bottom of my first wing.
Oh What A Feeling :D
Do Not Archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97294#97294
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| Subject: | Zenith List:The New Benz [Off Topic] |
Message
THE NEW BENZ
COOOOOL !!!
The new Benz - Very different....really different ! ...SCROLL DOWN...
This is the new Mercedes Benz SCL600.
This car is really different.
That's not what is different about it.
That either.
.....and now for the 'really different' part:
Here is what is different.
No steering wheel, you drive it with a joystick. No pedals either.
Can you drive with a joystick? Your kids and grandkids probably can.
The influence of video games in our lives has really arrived, wouldn't
ya say?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Try SPAMfighter for free now!
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| Subject: | XL - Wing root trimming |
I'm getting ready to trim the top skin and LE of my right wing root (too late for
the bottom skin). I've marked it out according to the X-Y coordinates in the
latest plans but haven't cut yet. I would like to know from those who went
before whether you cut yours according to the plans and how well the wing conformed
to the fuselage when you finished. Suggestions would be appreciated.
I had some issues with the wing tip as the ZAC supplied skins were a few mm short
of the max "Y" dimensions on the plans to I had to do some fudging to get
it to fit right. It worked out all right in the end but required a lot of shaving
and filing :-)
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97297#97297
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| Subject: | Zenith List:The New Benz [Off Topic] |
Richard
I think your pictures are too big for the list. Try
<http://tinyurl.com/2qkey9> http://tinyurl.com/2qkey9 or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCMmQaQke0
Haven't we already seen this on this list?
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
<http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21> www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21;
<http://www.mykitlog.com/r5t0ut/> http://www.mykitlog.com/r5t0ut/
n282rs at satx.rr.com
do not archive
Message 32
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| Subject: | XL - Wing root trimming |
Tim--
Best plan is to cut the wing root top/nose skin about 10mm greater(longer)
than the coordinates given by ZAC. Their basic outline worked OK but the
overall length/fit needs to be trimmed at the time of wing to fuselarge
assembly. This will be an itterative process so patience and preplanning
will be required
George May
601XL 912s 46-hours
>From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: XL - Wing root trimming
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:59:33 -0800
>
>
>I'm getting ready to trim the top skin and LE of my right wing root (too
>late for the bottom skin). I've marked it out according to the X-Y
>coordinates in the latest plans but haven't cut yet. I would like to know
>from those who went before whether you cut yours according to the plans and
>how well the wing conformed to the fuselage when you finished. Suggestions
>would be appreciated.
>
>I had some issues with the wing tip as the ZAC supplied skins were a few mm
>short of the max "Y" dimensions on the plans to I had to do some fudging
>to get it to fit right. It worked out all right in the end but required a
>lot of shaving and filing :-)
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97297#97297
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Win a Zunemake MSN your homepage for your chance to win!
http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline
Message 33
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Wade,
I took my Photo Assembly Guide CD to Kinko's with a list of
all the sections I needed. For about $55 they printed everything on
punched paper, black &white, using both sides of the paper. Then I
indexed each subject area and put them in ringbinders. Works well, but I
still occasionally use the CD to see something in color.
Lynn
601XL working on fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: NYTerminat@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good tip
Wade
I had printed out each section too. Much easier to take the paper to
your parts than taking your parts to the computer. I still had an old
computer in the shop, good for e-mail and ordering parts.
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 2/25/2007 6:01:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
wjones@brazoriainet.com writes:
Hello group ,I am a little slow thinking .I have been plans building
for seven months and during that time I must make at least 8 or 10
trips daily from the shop to my computer to look at the CD . I have cut
out this time robbing step by printing the assembly CD into a three hole
binder to keep in my shop . I am too cheap to buy a used computer for
this and my shop is getting crowded .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at
<57x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom"
target="_blank">AOL.com.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Registration related |
I am filling out the forms for registration of my 601xl. I want to
register as E-LSA. Everything is fairly simple until I get to form
8130-6 which is the "Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate".
Under "certification requested" I check "B" - Special Airworthiness
Certificate", and "4" - Experimental". Now, under "4" do I also check
"2" Amateur Built" and/or "8" - "Operating Light Sport"? and "8c" -
"Operating light-sport previously issued special light-sport category
airworthiness certificate under 21.190"?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Brad DeMeo
Working on Canopy
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