Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: sealing fuel senders (steveadams)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Registration related (Bryan Martin)
3. 07:35 AM - 701 National Geographic (RURUNY@aol.com)
4. 08:11 AM - fuel send location (john butterfield)
5. 09:13 AM - Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
6. 09:16 AM - Re: Newbie Questions (Gig Giacona)
7. 09:48 AM - Wow - off topic (ashontz)
8. 10:00 AM - Prop Pitch to start (george.mueller@aurora.org)
9. 10:48 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (David Downey)
10. 10:54 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
11. 11:05 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: fuel send location (Bryan Martin)
13. 11:18 AM - Re: Wow - off topic (Zed Smith)
14. 11:45 AM - Re: Prop Pitch to start (NYTerminat@aol.com)
15. 12:16 PM - Re: Engines (ashontz)
16. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (David Downey)
17. 03:33 PM - ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (PatrickW)
18. 03:56 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (Bill Naumuk)
19. 04:04 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (Bill Naumuk)
20. 04:22 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (ROBERT SCEPPA)
21. 04:27 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
22. 05:04 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
23. 05:11 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (PatrickW)
24. 05:46 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz)
25. 05:47 PM - Re: Registration related (Juan Vega)
26. 05:48 PM - Re: Registration related (Juan Vega)
27. 05:52 PM - Re: Newbie Questions (Juan Vega)
28. 05:52 PM - Re: Good tip (PatrickW)
29. 06:28 PM - Panel wiring (Jaybannist@cs.com)
30. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (Bill Naumuk)
31. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (Bill Naumuk)
32. 07:05 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (David Downey)
33. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (David Downey)
34. 07:23 PM - Re: Newbie Questions (Tim Juhl)
35. 07:37 PM - Re: Good tip (Ron Lendon)
36. 07:37 PM - Axle to gear Zodiac XL (DONNIE LATHAM)
37. 08:03 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (Ron Lendon)
38. 08:27 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (JOHN STARN)
39. 09:02 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (JohnDRead@aol.com)
40. 09:32 PM - where to buy proseal (john butterfield)
41. 09:33 PM - Re: Re: Canada flight (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel senders |
I would be hesitant to seal the senders in with proseal. I have had to replace
a sender and it was relatively simple, however if it is stuck on there with proseal
you'll have quite a job getting it off and cleaned up. I used the rubber
gaskets with seal lube and they have been leak free for 350 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97370#97370
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| Subject: | Re: Registration related |
2 is for registering the airpland as E-AB. 8c is for transitioning a
currently registered S-LSA to E-LSA status. So you want to go with 8-
Operating Light Sport if this is a newly constructed airframe that
has never been regisered before. You can only check one of the three.
The only difference between E-LSA and E-AB is who can sign off the
annual inspections. For E-AB you as the builder can apply for the
repairman certificate for that airplane and sign off you own annuals
but anybody you sell it to can't - they'll have to get an A&P to do
that. For E-LSA, you'll have to take a 16 hour repairman course to
get the certificate that allows you to sign off the annual and
anybody you sell the plane to can do the same. Either option will
allow the plane to be operated under the sport pilot rules.
On Feb 25, 2007, at 11:08 PM, Brad DeMeo wrote:
> I am filling out the forms for registration of my 601xl. I want
> to register as E-LSA. Everything is fairly simple until I get to
> form 8130-6 which is the "Application for U.S. Airworthiness
> Certificate". Under "certification requested" I check "B" -
> Special Airworthiness Certificate", and "4" - Experimental". Now,
> under "4" do I also check "2" Amateur Built" and/or "8" -
> "Operating Light Sport"? and "8c" - "Operating light-sport
> previously issued special light-sport category airworthiness
> certificate under 21.190"?
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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| Subject: | 701 National Geographic |
For 701 Fans,
In the March 2007 National Geographic:
There is a pic of a 701 that made an emergency landing (propellor damage
only) on page 156. The plane was used to help complete the article Ivory Wars on
page 34.
Brian Unruh
_www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com)
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | fuel send location |
hi list.
after searching the archives, i can't see any
particular advantage on putting the fuel senders on
top, except maybe a little less chance to leak. any
comments on location, i have not considered.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
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| Subject: | Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
Anybody have any problems setting these to .281 shophead diameter? I'm getting
to like .260 before it seems to get work hardened at which point I don't want
to overdo it.
Thanks
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97414#97414
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
I don't know where you are located but I strongly suggest to just about everyone
to go to the factory and build the rudder there.
Yes the cost of the rudder is deducted from the kit.
Engine choice in the experimental is a non issue as far as regulations go.
jedwards(at)digital.net wrote:
> I just joined this group in search of answers to a couple of questions on
> the 601 XL. My apologies if these are answered somewhere on the
> zenithair.com website, but I was unable to find them, and my questions
> submitted to the website went unanswered. (I guess they are busy).
>
> I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how things go
> before purchasing a Quick Build kit. (First time builder). Is there any
> difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail kit? I
> assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I finally
> order. Is that true?
>
> My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine choices.
> I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version of the
> Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain about the
> Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any concerns or
> other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Edwards
> Tool gathering
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97415#97415
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I think I would have spent the time (6000 hrs) building a real Corsair, but holy
hell! Amazing.
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Park.htm
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97424#97424
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/corsair_147.jpg
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| Subject: | Prop Pitch to start |
I am getting to the point were I need to mount the prop on my 701 with a
80hp 912 UL with the Skyshops FWF kit. What have others used for starting
prop pitch with the Woodcomp 3 blade and the 80hp Rotax? Any tips for
setting pitch, mounting the prop, etc?
George in Milwaukee
701 Rotax 912UL
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
Do the rivets you are using have a single small dimple in the factory head?
If so:
What is the hole diameter?
How long is the tail undriven?
How are you driving them? If using an air hammer, they should be driven in about
6-8 impacts. If driving them using a manual table riveter setup like the RV
guys like then a larger mass hammer is the only way to reduce the number of
impacts (that is why the various "X" values are available in rivet guns - they
drive different size rivets with similar exposure).
Keep in mind that the design mechanical properties of the hard rivets are developed
by the combination of the alloy and temper of the rivet, the diameter of
the hole, the depth of the hole to be filled, and the amount of work hardening
that occurs when you upset the .280" tail length into the .280" diameter shop
head.
The mass of the bucking bar and the rivet gun setting are the driving variables.
When you have everythign set at optimum you can set the rivets with 6-8 strokes
of the rivet gun in a single burst. During that burst, you can learn to
hear the hardness as the timbre of the impacts is raised as the head forms and
the rivet work hardens.
When you say they are work hardening, Why? the shop head should be a right rectangular
cylinder with a uniform bulge on the periphery - no taper or splits.
If they are tapered or split, they are over hardened (usually caused only by
underdriving due to too many light hits or the wrong alloy/temper of rivet).
The AC43.13 manuals have the "gospel" on diameter and geometry of the shop heads
for driven rivets - as well as everything else needed to guarantee a known
quality of instaled fastener.
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
Anybody have any problems setting these to .281 shophead diameter? I'm getting
to like .260 before it seems to get work hardened at which point I don't want
to overdo it.
Thanks
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97414#97414
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people
who know.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Do the rivets you are using have a single small
dimple in the factory head?
If so:
What is the hole diameter?
How long is the tail undriven?
How are you driving them? If using an air hammer, they should be driven in about
6-8 impacts. If driving them using a manual table riveter setup like the RV
guys like then a larger mass hammer is the only way to reduce the number of
impacts (that is why the various "X" values are available in rivet guns - they
drive different size rivets with similar exposure).
Keep in mind that the design mechanical properties of the hard rivets are developed
by the combination of the alloy and temper of the rivet, the diameter of
the hole, the depth of the hole to be filled, and the amount of work hardening
that occurs when you upset the .280" tail length into the .280" diameter shop
head.
The mass of the bucking bar and the rivet gun setting are the driving variables.
When you have everythign set at optimum you can set the rivets with 6-8 strokes
of the rivet gun in a single burst. During that burst, you can learn to
hear the hardness as the timbre of the impacts is raised as the head forms and
the rivet work hardens.
When you say they are work hardening, Why? the shop head should be a right rectangular
cylinder with a uniform bulge on the periphery - no taper or splits.
If they are tapered or split, they are over hardened (usually caused only by
underdriving due to too many light hits or the wrong alloy/temper of rivet).
The AC43.13 manuals have the "gospel" on diameter and geometry of the shop heads
for driven rivets - as well as everything else needed to guarantee a known
quality of instaled fastener.
[b][i]ashontz Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx) and get answers from real people who know.
> [b]
I'm using what Zenith specified, off the top of my head MS20470-AN-6-14, so they
should be the right length and all that. The riveter I'm using had no trouble
setting the AN5s quickly. I believe the hammer is up to snuff.
Yes, I have that book too. Just wondering if anyone else had trouble setting these
Zenith specified rivets.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97440#97440
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Do the rivets you are using have a single small
dimple in the factory head?
If so:
What is the hole diameter?
How long is the tail undriven?
How are you driving them? If using an air hammer, they should be driven in about
6-8 impacts. If driving them using a manual table riveter setup like the RV
guys like then a larger mass hammer is the only way to reduce the number of
impacts (that is why the various "X" values are available in rivet guns - they
drive different size rivets with similar exposure).
Keep in mind that the design mechanical properties of the hard rivets are developed
by the combination of the alloy and temper of the rivet, the diameter of
the hole, the depth of the hole to be filled, and the amount of work hardening
that occurs when you upset the .280" tail length into the .280" diameter shop
head.
The mass of the bucking bar and the rivet gun setting are the driving variables.
When you have everythign set at optimum you can set the rivets with 6-8 strokes
of the rivet gun in a single burst. During that burst, you can learn to
hear the hardness as the timbre of the impacts is raised as the head forms and
the rivet work hardens.
When you say they are work hardening, Why? the shop head should be a right rectangular
cylinder with a uniform bulge on the periphery - no taper or splits.
If they are tapered or split, they are over hardened (usually caused only by
underdriving due to too many light hits or the wrong alloy/temper of rivet).
The AC43.13 manuals have the "gospel" on diameter and geometry of the shop heads
for driven rivets - as well as everything else needed to guarantee a known
quality of instaled fastener.
[b][i]ashontz Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx) and get answers from real people who know.
> [b]
I'm using what Zenith specified, off the top of my head MS20470-AN-6-14, so they
should be the right length and all that. The riveter I'm using had no trouble
setting the AN5s quickly. I believe the hammer is up to snuff.
Yes, I have that book too. Just wondering if anyone else had trouble setting these
Zenith specified rivets.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97443#97443
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: fuel send location |
They'd be a lot easier to get at for maintenance mounted on top under an
access cover.
>
> after searching the archives, i can't see any
> particular advantage on putting the fuel senders on
> top, except maybe a little less chance to leak. any
> comments on location, i have not considered.
> john butterfield
> 601XL, corvair
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wow - off topic |
Impressive!
Just like a dentist.......loves to DRILL !!
Hi, Ed.
Zed/do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Pitch to start |
I started with 13 degrees for a 912ULS, ended up with 13 1/2 final pitch.
You might want to start with 12 degrees or 11 1/2.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 2/26/2007 1:01:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
george.mueller@aurora.org writes:
I am getting to the point were I need to mount the prop on my 701 with a
80hp 912 UL with the Skyshops FWF kit. What have others used for starting prop
pitch with the Woodcomp 3 blade and the 80hp Rotax? Any tips for setting
pitch, mounting the prop, etc?
George in Milwaukee
701 Rotax 912UL
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
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billmileski wrote:
> Fuel type: The 912S requires premium auto fuel. The HKS has a similar compression
ratio (11.3:1) and will be no different. The Jabiru requires 100LL, and
if you want to run 100LL this is a good choice -- the Rotax suffers reduced
gearbox life if always using 100LL. There may be an issue with 10% ethanol in
auto fuel and the Rotax, but I am expecting them to say it's okay.
>
> Bill Mileski
> Ledyard, CT
I'm sure it does. You'd never hear dieseling at those RPMs. My 140hp outboard engine
apparently used to require premium. I didn't know this and put 87 in it.
I never ran the thing about about 3500 anyway (about 22 mph with my old wellcraft
v-20 steplift fishing scowl). The last time I ran it open a piece of the
piston cracked off and hit the spark plug and put the gap out of commission. Oddly
enough, even with a bit of scoring from the chunk floating around in there
the cylinder still had compression. When I torn it apart and replaced the piston
and rebored/honed the cylinder I also installed a recommended head shim that
effectively lowers the compression and allows it to run on 87 octane. Runs
sweet now, like a new engine, but nipped about 2 mph off the top end. Probably
more like a 125hp now. Apparently it was pre-igniting whenever I ran the puppy
wide open. You'd never hear it though. Not good for the cylinders. At least
I could just anchor up. Actually, now that I think about it, t still ran on three
cylinders. Those engines are amazing. I had a 1977 140 Johnson about 10 years
ago that some wahoo at the marina talked me into buying a 14" prop instead
of a 13.5". Not only was it slower getting out of the hole, but after a few
years it actually broke the crankshaft. Believe it or not it was a hairline crack
in the crank balance weight and the only indication was a very slight amount
of play in the flywheel, maybe two degrees more back and forth than you'd normally
get. Ran for 2 years like that at 2/3 speed top throttle as I usually
do, til I opened it up one day for a ride after a fishing trip and that hairline
crack really broke up, and yet it still putted into the ramp, but the bearing
races in the case were all scored so there was hardly any case side compression
(2-cycle) for the and the adjacent cylinder.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97465#97465
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm
Hopefully,there was no offense taken from my comments earlier. Plese review the
attached files. They were copied from the AC65-15A Airframe Handbook. These
are the officially accepted hole diameter limits for the AN470AD and MS20470AD
driven rivets. Since the rivets you refer to are 7/8" long we assume that the
joint stack is 11/16" thick, clamped. If the hole for tat fastener were drilled
with a 3/16" bit (0.188") the rivet will be too long and not only will the
rivet be difficult to drive with the requisite 1.5 x 0.65d height shop head but
teh strength will be somewhat substandard due to a lack of proper work hardening.
The weight for the bucking bars are also important as they directly contribute
to the number of impacts needed to upset the shop head.
Again, none of my comments were intended to offend.
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Do the rivets you are using have a single small
dimple in the factory head?
If so:
What is the hole diameter?
How long is the tail undriven?
How are you driving them? If using an air hammer, they should be driven in about
6-8 impacts. If driving them using a manual table riveter setup like the RV
guys like then a larger mass hammer is the only way to reduce the number of impacts
(that is why the various "X" values are available in rivet guns - they drive
different size rivets with similar exposure).
Keep in mind that the design mechanical properties of the hard rivets are developed
by the combination of the alloy and temper of the rivet, the diameter of
the hole, the depth of the hole to be filled, and the amount of work hardening
that occurs when you upset the .280" tail length into the .280" diameter shop
head.
The mass of the bucking bar and the rivet gun setting are the driving variables.
When you have everythign set at optimum you can set the rivets with 6-8 strokes
of the rivet gun in a single burst. During that burst, you can learn to hear
the hardness as the timbre of the impacts is raised as the head forms and the
rivet work hardens.
When you say they are work hardening, Why? the shop head should be a right rectangular
cylinder with a uniform bulge on the periphery - no taper or splits. If
they are tapered or split, they are over hardened (usually caused only by underdriving
due to too many light hits or the wrong alloy/temper of rivet).
The AC43.13 manuals have the "gospel" on diameter and geometry of the shop heads
for driven rivets - as well as everything else needed to guarantee a known quality
of instaled fastener.
[b][i]ashontz Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx) and get answers from real people who know.
> [b]
I'm using what Zenith specified, off the top of my head MS20470-AN-6-14, so they
should be the right length and all that. The riveter I'm using had no trouble
setting the AN5s quickly. I believe the hammer is up to snuff.
Yes, I have that book too. Just wondering if anyone else had trouble setting these
Zenith specified rivets.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97443#97443
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
Message 17
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| Subject: | ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
I want to re-do my aileron belcranks. Not happy with how they turned out.
To do that I need to buy some angle stock.
The original piece was 6061, so I'd like to stick with that. Home Depot has the
size I need, but I don't know if it's 6061 or not.
How can I tell...?
I stood with the piece of aluminum stock in hand, and pondered for a bit before
placing it back on the shelf. I can always get it from Wick$, but I'd sure like
to find a local source (here in Minneapolis) for stuff like that...
- Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97502#97502
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
1. Yes, the correct rivets have a center mark.
2. For me, working diameter was more related to the length of the rivet
rather than the hardness. Don't know about an XL, but HDSs use different
length rivets. Predominantly one size, but I had to buy 1/4 lb of two other
lengths and use a couple depending on the overall thickness of the sheet
component stackups.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets
>
> Anybody have any problems setting these to .281 shophead diameter? I'm
> getting to like .260 before it seems to get work hardened at which point I
> don't want to overdo it.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97414#97414
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
Patrick-
There's an ink stencilled identification on every piece. You're not
going to find aviation grade at HD. More like lawn chair grade!
Don't know where you live, but I work in the 3rd largest city in Pa. and
the local outlets are more expensive than the big aviation warehouses. This
doesn't seem to be the case out West.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...?
>
> I want to re-do my aileron belcranks. Not happy with how they turned out.
>
> To do that I need to buy some angle stock.
>
> The original piece was 6061, so I'd like to stick with that. Home Depot
> has the size I need, but I don't know if it's 6061 or not.
>
> How can I tell...?
>
> I stood with the piece of aluminum stock in hand, and pondered for a bit
> before placing it back on the shelf. I can always get it from Wick$, but
> I'd sure like to find a local source (here in Minneapolis) for stuff like
> that...
>
> - Patrick
> 601XL/Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97502#97502
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
> 6061-T6 has a radius in the corner. the Home Depot
> like all hardware stores do not carry this type of
> aluminum and besides it would have the marking on
> on the angle too....Do not archive
--- PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>
> I want to re-do my aileron belcranks. Not happy
> with how they turned out.
>
> To do that I need to buy some angle stock.
>
> The original piece was 6061, so I'd like to stick
> with that. Home Depot has the size I need, but I
> don't know if it's 6061 or not.
>
> How can I tell...?
>
> I stood with the piece of aluminum stock in hand,
> and pondered for a bit before placing it back on the
> shelf. I can always get it from Wick$, but I'd sure
> like to find a local source (here in Minneapolis)
> for stuff like that...
>
> - Patrick
> 601XL/Corvair
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97502#97502
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm (http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm)
Hopefully,there was no offense taken from my comments earlier. Plese review the
attached files. They were copied from the AC65-15A Airframe Handbook. These
are the officially accepted hole diameter limits for the AN470AD and MS20470AD
driven rivets. Since the rivets you refer to are 7/8" long we assume that the
joint stack is 11/16" thick, clamped. If the hole for tat fastener were drilled
with a 3/16" bit (0.188"?e rivet will be too long and not only will the rivet
be difficult to drive with the requisite 1.5?.65d height shop head but teh
strength will be somewhat substandard due to a lack of proper work hardening.
The weight for the bucking bars are also important as they directly contribute
to the number of impacts needed to upset the shop head.
Again, none of my comments were intended to offend.
ashontz wrote:
>
> [quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Do the rivets you are using have a single
small dimple in the factory head?
>
> If so:
>
> What is the hole diameter?
>
> How long is the tail undriven?
>
> How are you driving them? If using an air hammer, they should be driven in about
6-8 impacts. If driving them using a manual table riveter setup like the RV
guys like then a larger mass hammer is the only way to reduce the number of
impacts (that is why the various "X" values are available in rivet guns - they
drive different size rivets with similar exposure).
>
> Keep in mind that the design mechanical properties of the hard rivets are developed
by the combination of the alloy and temper of the rivet, the diameter
of the hole, the depth of the hole to be filled, and the amount of work hardening
that occurs when you upset the .280" tail length into the .280" diameter shop
head.
>
> The mass of the bucking bar and the rivet gun setting are the driving variables.
When you have everythign set at optimum you can set the rivets with 6-8 strokes
of the rivet gun in a single burst. During that burst, you can learn to
hear the hardness as the timbre of the impacts is raised as the head forms and
the rivet work hardens.
>
> When you say they are work hardening, Why? the shop head should be a right rectangular
cylinder with a uniform bulge on the periphery - no taper or splits.
If they are tapered or split, they are over hardened (usually caused only by
underdriving due to too many light hits or the wrong alloy/temper of rivet).
>
> The AC43.13 manuals have the "gospel" on diameter and geometry of the shop heads
for driven rivets - as well as everything else needed Now that's room service!
Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
No offense taken, just explaning the situation I have. I just went by the rivets
they specified. Just trying to figure out what the problem is (if there is really)
given that I made it per their specs and used the rivet indicated and this
is the result.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97510#97510
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote:
> 1. Yes, the correct rivets have a center mark.
> 2. For me, working diameter was more related to the length of the rivet
> rather than the hardness. Don't know about an XL, but HDSs use different
> length rivets. Predominantly one size, but I had to buy 1/4 lb of two other
> lengths and use a couple depending on the overall thickness of the sheet
> component stackups.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ---
Yeah, I several different sizes. This is the size specified for that hole with
the thicknesses involved. Just wondering if I really have a problem on my hands
or not. Talked with Dave Clay and he said he used to sweat each rivet size but
his tech counselor said what he was getting was not a problem. Just looking
for other opinions to corroborate. Last thing I feel like doing is either drilling
out all of these rivets for the sake of another .020 - .030" shophead diameter
if it's not REALLY necessary. Just getting opinions. I may go out there
and try riveting the she-ite out of one in a test piece just to see what happens.
See if it goes any further or if that's it. I have not observed any cracking
or deformities. In fact the rivets look perfect, they're just not going any
further. The shape is nice, just not expanding anymore, nor are they compressing
anymore. They're like .030 high and .030 undersized in diameter when finished.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97516#97516
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
Yeah, I was thinking "Lawn Chair Grade" when I was looking at it. Isn't worth
taking a chance on something like an aileron bellcrank.
I'll order some from Wicks or AS.
Maybe I'll wait until I make more mistakes so I can place a bigger order and save
on shipping... [Laughing]
Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97517#97517
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
Picture's worth a thousand words. Here's a few thousand words. Most come to about
.262. A few are up to .274 as seen and a picture of one of the bad ones .249,
plus a side shot of the rivets for inspection of the heads. I placed a rivet
on top in the pix to see the shank of the original rivet (.187). The holes have
been reamed to .1895.
I can go back and try hitting the not so good rivets again, I just don't want to
work harden it too much and make it weak. Is it possible to heat treat them
to get rid of some of the hardness, and them hit them again?
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97524#97524
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_007_912.jpg
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_001_114.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Registration related |
you check 2 amateur built.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brad DeMeo <demeo@sonic.net>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2007 11:08 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Registration related
>
>I am filling out the forms for registration of my 601xl. I want to
>register as E-LSA. Everything is fairly simple until I get to form
>8130-6 which is the "Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate".
>Under "certification requested" I check "B" - Special Airworthiness
>Certificate", and "4" - Experimental". Now, under "4" do I also check
>"2" Amateur Built" and/or "8" - "Operating Light Sport"? and "8c" -
>"Operating light-sport previously issued special light-sport category
>airworthiness certificate under 21.190"?
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Brad DeMeo
>Working on Canopy
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Registration related |
actually the best thing to do is to call the FAA, they were a great assistance
in helping me fill out the paper work. you call, there is a little waite, they
come on line and you can ask them to walk you through the whole document.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brad DeMeo <demeo@sonic.net>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2007 11:08 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Registration related
>
>I am filling out the forms for registration of my 601xl. I want to
>register as E-LSA. Everything is fairly simple until I get to form
>8130-6 which is the "Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate".
>Under "certification requested" I check "B" - Special Airworthiness
>Certificate", and "4" - Experimental". Now, under "4" do I also check
>"2" Amateur Built" and/or "8" - "Operating Light Sport"? and "8c" -
>"Operating light-sport previously issued special light-sport category
>airworthiness certificate under 21.190"?
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Brad DeMeo
>Working on Canopy
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| Subject: | Newbie Questions |
if you are experimental you can put a rubber band powered prop if you'd like and
fly IFR, you don't need a certified engine. 3300s are certified in australia
not in the U.S. still a better engine than most certs out there in my eyes.
Remember you are (experimental catagory).
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2007 2:52 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Newbie Questions
>
>
>RE: My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine
>choices. I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version
>of the Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain
>about the Jabiru 3300. Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR? Any
>concerns orother suggestions?
>
>Pete answered this way previously:
>
>"This email below is factually incorrect regarding flying Jabiru engines at
>night. The only application of JAR22H engine certification in the USA is
>for Primary Category Aircraft under 750 kg. Primary category aircraft under
>750 kg can use a JAR22H engine if limited to day VFR.
>
>JAR22H does not come into play in the LSA area. Engines are compliant to
>ASTM F2339.
>
>Jabiru engines used in experimental amateur built aircraft can be flown in
>any condition that the aircraft operating limitations allow, night usually
>being one of them. Under a LSA certificate there is no prohibition on the
>part of Jabiru against night operation. There is no specific prohibition in
>the FAR's prohibiting night flight in S-LSA aircraft. The implied
>restriction is in the certificate in that it is based on ASTM F2245-04. It
>is stated in the scope of that standard that it applies to LSA aircraft
>operated day VFR.
>
>To be clear - it is not the Jabiru engine that limits an aircraft to day
>VFR.
>
>Pete"
>
>You can find this post and the thread leading up to it in the archives.
>Jeff Davidson
>
>
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Good thing about the CD is that you can "zoom in" on pictures.
Also, there's other pictures on that CD that are not in the build guide. You gotta
look for them. They are a big help.
- Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97529#97529
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A question for those of you who have been through it:
Is it better to construct a wiring harness on some sort of a template
or
just start wiring, point to point, and gather the wiring into a harness later?
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
For shits+giggles, try a slightly longer rivet. If you don't increase
your working diameter, the next thing is to check your bucking bar.
Awful hard to diagnose by remote control. Just trying to reason things
out logically. Got to be something screwy, because I set mine by hand. Not
perfectly the first time, mind you, but I didn't have to drill them all out,
just a few here and there.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets
>
>
> naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote:
>> 1. Yes, the correct rivets have a center mark.
>> 2. For me, working diameter was more related to the length of the rivet
>> rather than the hardness. Don't know about an XL, but HDSs use different
>> length rivets. Predominantly one size, but I had to buy 1/4 lb of two
>> other
>> lengths and use a couple depending on the overall thickness of the sheet
>> component stackups.
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>> ---
>
>
> Yeah, I several different sizes. This is the size specified for that hole
> with the thicknesses involved. Just wondering if I really have a problem
> on my hands or not. Talked with Dave Clay and he said he used to sweat
> each rivet size but his tech counselor said what he was getting was not a
> problem. Just looking for other opinions to corroborate. Last thing I feel
> like doing is either drilling out all of these rivets for the sake of
> another .020 - .030" shophead diameter if it's not REALLY necessary. Just
> getting opinions. I may go out there and try riveting the she-ite out of
> one in a test piece just to see what happens. See if it goes any further
> or if that's it. I have not observed any cracking or deformities. In fact
> the rivets look perfect, they're just not going any further. The shape is
> nice, just not expanding anymore, nor are they compressing anymore.
> They're like .030 high and .030 undersized in diameter when finished.
>
> --------
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97516#97516
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
Patrick-
Rely on the mark, not the radius. I've received the same grade from two
different reliable sources, one with, and one without the radius.
You'll find that the shipping, rather than material costs, will kill
you. Ease the pain by ordering something you know you're going to need down
the road.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...?
>
> Yeah, I was thinking "Lawn Chair Grade" when I was looking at it. Isn't
> worth taking a chance on something like an aileron bellcrank.
>
> I'll order some from Wicks or AS.
>
> Maybe I'll wait until I make more mistakes so I can place a bigger order
> and save on shipping... [Laughing]
>
> Patrick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97517#97517
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
buy it from McMaster.com. same as Minneapolis...
I want to re-do my aileron belcranks. Not happy with how they turned out.
To do that I need to buy some angle stock.
The original piece was 6061, so I'd like to stick with that. Home Depot has the
size I need, but I don't know if it's 6061 or not.
How can I tell...?
I stood with the piece of aluminum stock in hand, and pondered for a bit before
placing it back on the shelf. I can always get it from Wick$, but I'd sure like
to find a local source (here in Minneapolis) for stuff like that...
- Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97502#97502
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
They actually look good. I still suspect both of my earlier observations. The minimum
hole ream size should be 0.191 for a 3/16 AD driven rivet so the slightly
small bore will contribute to slightly tall shop heads.
What you have is grossly superior to the result of trying to drill out and replace
the fasteners. They are probably within 5% of nominal mechanicals as is.
You can always go back and set them a little more - but they look as though you
need a bigger gun or heavier bucking bar.
Keep in mind that this plane was designed to be built by amateurs - and CH is
noted for making accomodations for the builders varying levels of skill.
Overall, I would not lose a lot of sleep over them. I haev seem many, many, many
worse in virtually all manufacturer's products - Boeing included...
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
Picture's worth a thousand words. Here's a few thousand words. Most come to about
.262. A few are up to .274 as seen and a picture of one of the bad ones .249,
plus a side shot of the rivets for inspection of the heads. I placed a rivet
on top in the pix to see the shank of the original rivet (.187). The holes have
been reamed to .1895.
I can go back and try hitting the not so good rivets again, I just don't want to
work harden it too much and make it weak. Is it possible to heat treat them
to get rid of some of the hardness, and them hit them again?
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97524#97524
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_007_912.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_003_246.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_001_114.jpg
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Questions |
Just out of curiosity what is the official position on flying a Exp. Amateur Built
vs Exp. Light sport into Canada from the US? Do our northern cousins recognize
the E-SLA Category?
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97546#97546
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I have been linking to the builders site and checking there first. If they have
newer information, drawing or photo guide, thats what I print out when I get
to that section of the build. It all gets put in a 3 ring binder as I progress
through the build.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97548#97548
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| Subject: | Axle to gear Zodiac XL |
Trying to avoid a lot of filing on main gear legs when mounting the axle
with wheel and brakes. Seems that moving the axle forward and aligning
with front of gear works best allowing more room for brakes. Any other
suggestions?
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
I was having the same problem so I just hit them a couple more times. I used a
hammer and a arbor press setup. You can see what I did between October and November
in 2006 at mykitlog.com/rlendon.
What I did was make them come out within tolerance. Some needed a couple more smacks
to get the height right. The holes were all reamed to the mean diameter
of the tolerance.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97552#97552
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
I went to Yahoo. Typed in "Minneapolis aircraft metal" and got more than
260 plus hits. (didn't go to the last page) Some you wouldn't need BUT
there IS going to be at least one in the lot that will have what you
need & sell to you. KABONG Do Not Archive
The original piece was 6061, so I'd like to stick with that. Home
Depot has the size I need, but I don't know if it's 6061 or not.
How can I tell...?
I stood with the piece of aluminum stock in hand, and pondered for a
bit before placing it back on the shelf. I can always get it from Wick$,
but I'd sure like to find a local source (here in Minneapolis) for stuff
like that...
- Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
HI Patrick:
I only use Home Depot material for fixtures. The Zenith
factory will sell you any material you need.
Regards, John Read
do not archive.
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| Subject: | where to buy proseal |
hi list
i can't seem to find where to buy some pro seal for my
fuel senders
i live in in the los angeles area, maybe it has
another name, but am having no luck in finding is
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
Be a PS3 game guru.
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| Subject: | Re: Canada flight |
Hi Tim,
My understanding is that flying any experimental aircraft in Canada
requires specific permission from the Canadian government. I also
understand Canada has significantly different equipment requirements
from the USA including serious survival gear.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 07:22 PM 2/26/2007, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity what is the official position on flying a
>Exp. Amateur Built vs Exp. Light sport into Canada from the US? Do
>our northern cousins recognize the E-SLA Category?
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