Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:23 AM - Re: Flying into Canada (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 02:31 AM - Homemade LRI Gauge Source --Surplus Center (Doug Naylor)
3. 02:48 AM - Re: aileron trim system (David Downey)
4. 03:41 AM - Hangar door reference website (Brett Hanley)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: What does it mean? (Tim Juhl)
6. 07:13 AM - 601XL Canopy fitting process. (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Flying into Canada (Noel Loveys)
8. 08:11 AM - Re: Flying into Canada (Noel Loveys)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (Rich)
10. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (R.P.)
11. 09:22 AM - Re: 601XL Canopy fitting process. (Jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 09:32 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (rickpitcher)
13. 10:04 AM - Motivation (Ryan Vechinski)
14. 10:33 AM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (Terry Turnquist)
15. 10:46 AM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (Tim Juhl)
16. 11:00 AM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (Craig Payne)
17. 11:15 AM - Re: Motivation (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 12:31 PM - Re: Motivation (Bill Steer)
19. 01:31 PM - Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? (PatrickW)
20. 02:19 PM - Re: Hangar Doors (Tommy Walker)
21. 02:39 PM - Re: aileron trim system (Juan Vega)
22. 03:19 PM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (JOHN STARN)
23. 03:35 PM - Re: Motivation (Ron Lendon)
24. 04:04 PM - Re: Hangar Doors (Mack Kreizenbeck)
25. 05:09 PM - Torque tube (wade jones)
26. 05:31 PM - dual throttles (mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net)
27. 05:32 PM - Re: Torque tube (Robin Bellach)
28. 07:02 PM - Re: Torque tube (Bryan Martin)
29. 07:16 PM - Re: Torque tube (Southern Reflections)
30. 08:15 PM - 601 XL Nose Rib 4 (Ron Lendon)
31. 10:02 PM - Re: Motivation (txpilot)
32. 11:05 PM - Re: Torque tube (Paul Mulwitz)
33. 11:06 PM - Re: Motivation (TxDave)
34. 11:20 PM - Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 (TxDave)
35. 11:33 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
36. 11:38 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Flying into Canada |
Hi Noel,
The USA doesn't have medical exams for driver's licenses. Instead
there is a system that feeds information about medical conditions
that preclude safe driving from the medical community to the state
driver's license authorities. I don't think this happens very often
- just in cases where a driver gets some condition that makes it
clear that driving should not be done like frequent blackouts or
debilitating strokes. (I don't know exactly how this is determined
or accomplished, but I do know that some such system exists.)
The Sport Pilot license is the first instance of this
behind-the-scenes government intrusion into citizen's medical
condition becoming "Public knowledge" - not that this information is
published in the newspapers, but the notion that "Big Brother" is
watching. Those exercising Sport Pilot privileges actually benefit
from this knowledge since they don't need to have the hokey medical
exam to exercise their pilot privileges. There is background rumor
level talk of extending this to Private Pilots by eliminating the 3rd
class medical requirement if the Sport Pilot program proves
reasonably safe for the public. There have been many people who
questioned the usefulness of all of the FAA medical exams in
enhancing aviation safety for a long time. I don't think we will see
these exams eliminated for commercial or air transport pilots any
time soon, but it seems reasonable to me to allow the same level of
protection against medically unfit pilots for passengers of private
airplane operators as is given to passengers of private automobile operators.
In all cases, pilots are required to "Self - certify" they are
medically fit for every flight. This is not changed by the new
handling of medical certificates.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 07:08 PM 2/28/2007, you wrote:
>Ok I was wondering because your PPL and class 3 is accepted by
>TC. I don't think the sport pilot license is an issue with TC but
>the drivers license medical is. Some of us have been pushing for a
>similar medical for quite some time but there is no standardization
>of drivers medical requirements. Newfoundland as far as I know
>doesn't even have a drivers license medical for regular drivers
>licences. We do have a medical for large trucks, busses and air brakes.
>
>
>Noel
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Homemade LRI Gauge Source --Surplus Center |
For those of you who are planning to build your own LRI (Lift Reserve
Indicator) like the one on Scott Laughlin's website (
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/LRI.html ), a very inexpensive source for the
DWYER Minihelic Model 2-5002 2" Water Column Gauge is the Surplus Center--
http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.aspUID 07030103400260&catname=&byKeyword=yes&search=dwyer
. (Item # 21-1623) Their $11.95 price is by far the cheapest I have seen
the gauges anywhere.
Instructions on how to build your own LRI system can be found on the
CH601.org website @: http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm -and-
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm The Surplus Center
currently has over 800 of the Minihelic gauges in stock, so they shouldn't
be running out any time soon, but I wouldn't wait too long at this price.
Also, since the Surplus Center buys overstocks and surplus, they often don't
restock items once they are gone off their shelves.
Happy Building,
Doug
Doug Naylor
dugnaylor@yahoo.com
Wittman Buttercup -Corvair Powered
--Got Plans and Dreams, no $
_________________________________________________________________
With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
simple tips.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline
Message 3
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| Subject: | aileron trim system |
..exactly. The Cub is just like virtually every jetliner out there...and the function
is exactly the same as teh 601: the lift vector of teh flying surface is
modified to generate thrust in the direction needed. In one case the main flying
surface incidence is changed so that the new "trail" position of the attached
control surface is changed (Cub/jetliner) and on the other the tab flies
the control surface to a deflection that changes the mean chord line in the entire
flying surface (has the effect of making a upward or downward lifting airfoil
instead of a neutral, symmetrical airfoil). Same effect.
nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. PLane was at 2000
ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was turing slightly to the left so I hit the
right trim button. Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I
was surprised to see it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing
the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. The difference
between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected
pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite
direction. SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the
aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection
turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the
deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control
surface.
After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne
>Sent: Feb 28, 2007 4:38 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: aileron trim system
>
>
>Isn't the position of the large control surfaces actually unchanged by the
>trim (dictated by the control cables or tubes). I thought the trim tabs just
>deflect small amounts of air on their own.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Hangar door reference website |
Try this website.=0A =0Ahangardoorsecrets.com=0A =0AYou have to pay to ente
r but worth the price. Great information on a lot of different options. G
ood ideas on doing doors on the cheap.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What does it mean? |
Also don't forget, a user fee is technically not a tax increase. This way the
administration can claim that they aren't raising taxes......
Those of us who live near Canada have had a taste of user fees. A friend flew
his Arrow across southern Ontario (didn't land) to Buffalo and a few weeks later
he received a bill in the mail from the corporation that now runs ATC in Canada.
He had of course filed a flight plan and had talked to London Approach
on his way thru. The Canadians looked up his N-number and sent him a bill.
It was something like $60-70 and it covers him if he were to fly in Canada again
sometime in the following three months. I feel sorry for our Canadian neighbors.
The one positive thing is that the Zenith's gross weight is low enough
that I believe it is exempt from fees unless you try to land and one of a selected
number of "big" airports.
Steven is correct..... the idiots in Washington want to "fix" what is already the
best air traffic control system in the world. The FAA can't account for where
all the money it's spending is going now yet they tell us that the current
system won't meet their increasing financial needs. Fortunately, with the help
of AOPA, EAA, NBAA etc., the congress is getting an earfull and so far seem
skeptical. Just keep those cards and letters coming!
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98107#98107
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| Subject: | 601XL Canopy fitting process. |
Has anyone come up with a better way to fit the canopy than the use of the plywood
template as shown in 6-C-3A of the assembly manual?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98120#98120
Message 7
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| Subject: | Flying into Canada |
I'm hoping for either a driver's license medical here in Canada which
will
allow an easy reciprocal agreement that would also allow me to fly to
Osh
someday. My class 4 medical declaration isn't acceptable to the FAA
either.
Too bad we can't just lock the negotiators in a room with two pieces of
paper and a BIC pen and not open the door until there is an agreement
made.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:57 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flying into Canada
Thanks, Noel
I appreciate your information, and Mark's, as well, though I was hoping
for
the opposite result.
In my experience in the US, none of the 6 states in which I've been
licensed
to drive do any medical checks on drivers other than vision. I can't
recall
what the questionnaires I filled out for drivers licenses asked about
medical conditions. In any case, they were nothing like the
questionnaire
for the FAA Class 3 medical.
But I'm just starting to build. Perhaps TC will change their position on
class 3 medical vs. driver's license before I finish. I sure would like
to
fly my 601 to Alaska--when I get it done!
Terry
do not archive
At 11:38 PM 2/28/2007 -0330, you wrote:
Ok I was wondering because your PPL and class 3 is accepted by TC. I
don't
think the sport pilot license is an issue with TC but the drivers
license
medical is. Some of us have been pushing for a similar medical for
quite
some time but there is no standardization of drivers medical
requirements.
Newfoundland as far as I know doesn't even have a drivers license
medical
for regular drivers licences. We do have a medical for large trucks,
busses
and air brakes.
Noel
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
Just starting a 601 kit
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flying into Canada |
That system might work except in the possible case of politicians or
doctors.
My father flew for many years and never actually had a medical
performed.
As a doctor he would only go to a friend who was the flight surgeon and
say,"Here sign this." In almost twenty years his medical consisted of
the
flight surgeon saying, "Ok!"
Politicians would be very similar... Without a medical requirement no
one
would want to be the one to shang-hi their drivers license. The excuse
would be they were told not to drive. There is a medical requirement
now
but only for people over the age of 70.
My father got a notice from Motor Vehicles saying he had to get a
medical to
renew his license. He got the medical ,,, signed. Motor Vehicles
weren't
convinced and requested a practical drivers test. My father who had
suffered a severe stroke refused the drivers test and he was notified
his
license was cancelled. They also asked he return his license so they
could
be sure he wasn't driving. He only complied with that when he moved
into a
palliative care ward.
About ten years ago I had my eyes examined. I had been wearing glasses
for
a while and it was time for a check up. After the examination he told
me I
was actually considered to be legally blind for driving without glasses.
It
was only when I turned 55 and my license had to be renewed that a
corrective
lenses notification turned up on my license even though the optometrist
was
supposed to notify the Department of Motor Vehicle Registration.
Knowing
the optometrist I suspect the notice went form his office the same day.
Knowing Motor Vehicle Registration, it's a wonder it was ever added to
my
licence restriction.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flying into Canada
Hi Noel,
The USA doesn't have medical exams for driver's licenses. Instead there
is
a system that feeds information about medical conditions that preclude
safe
driving from the medical community to the state driver's license
authorities. I don't think this happens very often - just in cases
where a
driver gets some condition that makes it clear that driving should not
be
done like frequent blackouts or debilitating strokes. (I don't know
exactly
how this is determined or accomplished, but I do know that some such
system
exists.)
The Sport Pilot license is the first instance of this behind-the-scenes
government intrusion into citizen's medical condition becoming "Public
knowledge" - not that this information is published in the newspapers,
but
the notion that "Big Brother" is watching. Those exercising Sport Pilot
privileges actually benefit from this knowledge since they don't need to
have the hokey medical exam to exercise their pilot privileges. There
is
background rumor level talk of extending this to Private Pilots by
eliminating the 3rd class medical requirement if the Sport Pilot program
proves reasonably safe for the public. There have been many people who
questioned the usefulness of all of the FAA medical exams in enhancing
aviation safety for a long time. I don't think we will see these exams
eliminated for commercial or air transport pilots any time soon, but it
seems reasonable to me to allow the same level of protection against
medically unfit pilots for passengers of private airplane operators as
is
given to passengers of private automobile operators.
In all cases, pilots are required to "Self - certify" they are medically
fit
for every flight. This is not changed by the new handling of medical
certificates.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 07:08 PM 2/28/2007, you wrote:
Ok I was wondering because your PPL and class 3 is accepted by TC. I
don't
think the sport pilot license is an issue with TC but the drivers
license
medical is. Some of us have been pushing for a similar medical for
quite
some time but there is no standardization of drivers medical
requirements.
Newfoundland as far as I know doesn't even have a drivers license
medical
for regular drivers licences. We do have a medical for large trucks,
busses
and air brakes.
Noel
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LRI versus Stall warning |
List,
Just a comment about LRI's, and AOA and all of the other gadgets that seem
to be popping up to distract our eyes from out the window.
I just read an article about looking out the window of an airplane. That is
really how we learned to fly. The instruments were not second but
conformation of what our seat was telling us. It can also be the direct
opposite, the seat confirming what the instruments are saying. They go hand
in hand (with caution).
If you want it of course put it in but it was interesting enough that when I
flew in the 601XL a few weeks ago, I realized that it had a pretty good LRI
and AOA built into the plane itself. I think it was called wing shutter. It
was evident and increased accordingly to the decrease in lift. I was
impressed to say the least at the handling capabilities under 40mph. (Yes we
were 2 mistakes high!) NO bad tendancies and this was experienced as well in
the 801. The plane does not roll like a C152 in which I learned to fly in.
I am not fussing but just commenting that for me I still want to use the
"KISS" principal in the construction of what my plane. Of course, the wallet
and developing technologies will also entice what it will turn out to be.
Until I started reading the list (Under 100 hour pilot) I had never heard of
either of these gadgets. As a recreational pilot, I am not sure but is the
LRI and AOA necessary or just a nicety? Is it highly recommended by MFG of
light aircraft or something to add to cause a distraction for the
recreational pilot who looks out the window in most cases?
Again, not a fuss but just a comment so I can better evaluate the need for
the AOA or the LRI for my own knowledge!
Thanks,
Rich
601XL
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
> The bucking bar I have is pretty substantial, as is the table, even if it
> is wood, but the table may be contributing to not getting a full set on
> the rivet. I'll try it with the bar on the concrete floor.
>
Try it with the rivet gun in one hand and the bucking bar in the other, or
get someone else to hold the bucking bar. That's the way I was taught many
years ago, it's still the prefered method. Springs and tables are just gonna
add complexity to a simple operation.
Rick Pitcher
millions of rivets shot, only a couple hundred drilled out ;)
Lockheed, Northrop, Grumman... retired and STILL shooting rivets
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL Canopy fitting process. |
Gig,
I roughly followed the recommended procedure, but I used some of the heavy corrugated
cardboard from the ZAC packing crates. It was stiff enough to do the job,
and much easier to handle than plywood. It was easy to cut with a box cutter
instead of a jig saw. Changes can be made easily just by moving down on the
template (probably less than an inch) and re-cutting. That can be done several
times before you run out of enough depth.
I was dreading the fitting, too, but this made it relatively painless.
Jay in Dallas
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
>
>Has anyone come up with a better way to fit the canopy than the use of the plywood
template as shown in 6-C-3A of the assembly manual?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98120#98120
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets |
---[/quote]
The bucking bar I have is pretty substantial, as is the table, even if it is wood,
but the table may be contributing to not getting a full set on the rivet.
I'll try it with the bar on the concrete floor.[/quote]
I've been told that my posts appear blank in the web-based matronics list, so I'll
repeat myself here on the web-based list... :
Try it with the rivet gun in one hand and the bucking bar in the other, or
get someone else to hold the bucking bar. That's the way I was taught many
years ago, it's still the prefered method. Springs and tables are just gonna
add complexity to a simple operation.
Rick Pitcher
millions of rivets shot, only a couple hundred drilled out ;)
Lockheed, Northrop, Grumman... retired and STILL shooting rivets
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98153#98153
Message 13
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Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what others
do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in this whole
scratch building process due to the money part of it, after completing the tail
from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts
are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my
bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need
answers to those questions, I'm just venting :) )
So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation is the
fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I can't seem
to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm drilling my rivet
holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to build in a warp. What have
others done during this phase?
Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent.
(by the way, it's a 701)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LRI versus Stall warning |
Just to add more fuel to the fire, isn't the type of flying, short field, bush,
etc. the determining factor in installing a LRI?
Most stall/spin accidents occur in the pattern when ones trying to correct a
poor setup situation and uses extreme
control input to do so. Isn't it unlikely that during that type of impulse maneuver
a person is going to be aware enough of
the situation to be looking at another, or any instruments for that matter?
Terry Turnquist
601XL-Plans
St. Peters, MO 63376
Rich <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote:
List,
Just a comment about LRIs, and AOA and all of the other gadgets that seem to
be popping up to distract our eyes from out the window.
Again, not a fuss but just a comment so I can better evaluate the need for the
AOA or the LRI for my own knowledge!
Thanks,
Rich
601XL
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: LRI versus Stall warning |
This is not necessarily a comment about LRI's but on a problem that Rich touched
on. One problem I've had to deal with when working with primary students (especially
those who play MS Flight simulator or the like) is that they want to
focus almost totally on the flight instruments. A kid who can make a great 45
banked 360 on instruments totally loses it when the instruments are covered up!
As a result I usually cover up the AI for the first few hours. I also have
them do some takeoffs and landings with the airspeed covered, a great confidence
builder.
Don't get me wrong, instruments offer great information, but they are not a replacement
for developing basic pilot skills. I like gizmos as much as the next
guy but try not to be dependent upon them. That said, I see nothing wrong in
installing a LRI.... I just don't think I will.
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98164#98164
Message 16
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| Subject: | LRI versus Stall warning |
About half the AOA/LRI devices I am familiar with produce either an audible
alarm or a voice alert ("angle angle push push"). Just like a stall alarm
you don't have to watch it to improve safety. But when you can watch it you
can improve your understanding of the performance envelope of your plane in
different configurations and situations.
-- Craig
Message 17
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|
Hi Ryan,
I am suffering from a slump myself right now. In my case the excuses
range from long lead time for the engine I ordered to a lost dog and
cat who just got diagnosed with diabetes. After nearly two years of
building every day I guess I was due for a little slump.
One of the things folks around here tend to do is build in
groups. We have one group of 4 Sonex being scratch built here and
another group of 4 Zodiac XLs. I don't know how they are doing but I
am sure the group helps keep all of them moving.
Another thing to try is join a local EAA chapter and subscribe to
builder publications like Kitplanes. The regular success stories and
flight reports make me want to finish my plane and go flying soon.
I don't know where you are located, but wherever it is there are
probably other home builders near by.
I didn't build my own spars since I am building from kit, but I
suppose starting by drilling small holes and opening them up while
mated with Clecos would work there -- just like it does when doing
thinner parts. I have never heard of folks doing it that way, but
the old tried and true methods seem to work well.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:03 AM 3/1/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know
>what others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten
>started in this whole scratch building process due to the money part
>of it, after completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to
>the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and
>if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my bending radius is
>correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers
>to those questions, I'm just venting :) )
>
>So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing
>motivation is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on
>my spar, and I can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to
>the web while I'm drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece,
>and I don't want to build in a warp. What have others done during this phase?
>
>Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent.
>
>(by the way, it's a 701)
-
Message 18
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Me, too. Seems like I've been wiring forever. And this isn't the first
time. At one point, I discovered that the aft end of my fuselage was out of
kilter and had to rebuild the whole thing. It took a couple of days to get
to it. My 601 is my second homebuilt project. I started on the first one
building "an airplane." Worked and worked, and no airplane in sight. Then
I changed philosophy and viewed each part as an end product in itself. That
helped a lot, and probably improved the quality of each part.
Hang in there. Mistakes and a feeling of having tackled too big a job has
happened to all of us. The EAA chapter idea is a good one, as is just
venting on this list.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Motivation
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I am suffering from a slump myself right now. In my case the excuses
> range from long lead time for the engine I ordered to a lost dog and cat
> who just got diagnosed with diabetes. After nearly two years of building
> every day I guess I was due for a little slump.
>
> One of the things folks around here tend to do is build in groups. We
> have one group of 4 Sonex being scratch built here and another group of 4
> Zodiac XLs. I don't know how they are doing but I am sure the group helps
> keep all of them moving.
>
> Another thing to try is join a local EAA chapter and subscribe to builder
> publications like Kitplanes. The regular success stories and flight
> reports make me want to finish my plane and go flying soon.
>
> I don't know where you are located, but wherever it is there are probably
> other home builders near by.
>
> I didn't build my own spars since I am building from kit, but I suppose
> starting by drilling small holes and opening them up while mated with
> Clecos would work there -- just like it does when doing thinner parts. I
> have never heard of folks doing it that way, but the old tried and true
> methods seem to work well.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
>
> At 10:03 AM 3/1/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what
>>others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in
>>this whole scratch building process due to the money part of it, after
>>completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm
>>wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to
>>the right tolerances, if my bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is
>>ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers to those questions, I'm just
>>venting :) )
>>
>>So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation
>>is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I
>>can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm
>>drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to
>>build in a warp. What have others done during this phase?
>>
>>Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent.
>>
>>(by the way, it's a 701)
>
> -
>
>
> --
> 4:09 PM
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: ID'ing Aluminum Stock...? |
I went ahead and ordered the stock (and some other stuff) from Aircraft Spruce.
Went with the 6061-T6, as in the original piece.
I am going a bit larger on the "base" of the aileron bellcrank (2 inches instead
of 1 inch) so as to utilize an existing line of factory drilled holes for additional
rivets, instead of just drilling 3 in line to hold the bellcrank attachement
onto the rib.
I saw a photo on another guy's website where he did the same thing on his XL, and
I believe the 1/10th of an ounce weight penalty is well worth having an extra
line of rivets in this particular area.
PatrickW
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98176#98176
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Doors |
Thanks folks. I have some good ideas to follow up on.
Your subscription to the Zenith-List has been extended for a year by me. I
also added the Rotax-List subscription for those with a 912 on their
aircraft..
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive .
Message 21
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| Subject: | aileron trim system |
Dave,
Yeah thats it............i think.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2007 5:47 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: aileron trim system
>
>..exactly. The Cub is just like virtually every jetliner out there...and the function
is exactly the same as teh 601: the lift vector of teh flying surface
is modified to generate thrust in the direction needed. In one case the main flying
surface incidence is changed so that the new "trail" position of the attached
control surface is changed (Cub/jetliner) and on the other the tab flies
the control surface to a deflection that changes the mean chord line in the entire
flying surface (has the effect of making a upward or downward lifting airfoil
instead of a neutral, symmetrical airfoil). Same effect.
>
>
>nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. PLane was at 2000
ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was turing slightly to the left so I hit the
right trim button. Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I
was surprised to see it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing
the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. The difference
between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected
pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite
direction. SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the
aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection
turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the
deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control
surface.
>
>After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine.
>
>Juan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Craig Payne
>>Sent: Feb 28, 2007 4:38 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: aileron trim system
>>
>>
>>Isn't the position of the large control surfaces actually unchanged by the
>>trim (dictated by the control cables or tubes). I thought the trim tabs just
>>deflect small amounts of air on their own.
>>
>>-- Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Never miss an email again!
>Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: LRI versus Stall warning |
It was pointed out to me that I should have identified the "We" I
referred to in my post. The other half of "We" is my building partner:
Retired USAF F-4 Wild Weasel Pilot Major Tom "Gummibear" Gummo. The AOA
was calibrated in flight, as installed. All the red lights were On at
the point of a stall. We tested in steep climbing turns, inverted etc.
The lights are bright enough to see without looking "inside" and there
is never the problem of a scan delay was with gages. Our unit has the
option for audio warnings too but we don't use it. KABONG still Do
Not Archive
Well I have to go with opinions of several Naval Aviators that land on
carriers, at night, pitching deck & howling winds... They pick
AOA....We asked before installing AOA in HRII. Stall warnings are NOT
graduated, kinda like a low oil light. It blinks under braking when it's
almost too late. Three green, three yellow & four red tell you as you
approach. doesn't wait till your at the point of no return to do
anything. AOA, every scenario I heard so far. KABONG Do Not Archive
Message 23
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I made my spars and documented the process at mykitlog.com/rlendon. Look back
to about 10-13-2006 and see if it make any sense to you. I have the Spar Caps
pilot drilled first then lined up the ends, of the angles, started the measuring
process in the middle and worked out board from there.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Heading out to the EAA meeting now, I'll check back when I get back in.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98193#98193
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Doors |
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I have had a lot of experience with the doors like George Race installed in
his hangar. The only thing that I can say is they become more of a
maintenance nightmare the older they get. The wind also plays havoc with
them -- especially the wing (end) doors. There is an old adage "you get what
you pay for"! I really like the bi-folds, especially the ones with the
remote control, but they are really spendy! Your best bet is the doors that
roll on good size "V" type rollers and tracks.
Don't archive!
Mack
Message 25
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Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque tube
.I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to keep the
torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a forward stop
somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop similar to the one
controlling the rearward movement .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 26
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Hi from Arizona.
Working on IP and am stumped by dual throttles. If I run a throttle cabl
e on each side of my IP, where does the friction come from? I have a cen
ter stick. If I have a friction control then how does my co-pilot take o
ver in an emergency? Does anyone have some pictures/drawings of their se
tup?
601XL with a WW Corvair conversion. N445ML
Thanks in advance for any help.
Mike Clark, Prescott Valley, AZ
<html><P>Hi from Arizona.</P>
<P>Working on IP and am stumped by dual throttles. If I run a throttle c
able on each side of my IP, where does the friction come from? I have a
center stick. If I have a friction control then how does my co-pilot tak
e over in an emergency? Does anyone have some pictures/drawings of their
setup?</P>
<P>601XL with a WW Corvair conversion. N445ML</P>
<P>Thanks in advance for any help.</P>
<P>Mike Clark, Prescott Valley, AZ</P>
<P> </P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 27
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I wondered about that too, but assume that the cable tension is
sufficient to prevent forward movement making a positive stop not
necessary. Or am I missing something too?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Torque tube
Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque tube
.I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to keep the
torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a forward stop
somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop similar to the one
controlling the rearward movement .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 28
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You're not missing anything, the tension on the elevator cables will
hold the tube back against the stop.
On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:08 PM, wade jones wrote:
> Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque
> tube .I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to
> keep the torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a
> forward stop somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop
> similar to the one controlling the rearward movement .
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 29
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Bryan,this is off sub ,but what type of cooler are you using on your ram
subaru JOE N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Torque tube
You're not missing anything, the tension on the elevator cables will
hold the tube back against the stop.
On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:08 PM, wade jones wrote:
Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque
tube .I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to keep
the torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a forward
stop somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop similar to the
one controlling the rearward movement .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 30
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| Subject: | 601 XL Nose Rib 4 |
Just noticed the "Wait to Rivet NR #4" note in the Photo Assembly Guide.
I have it riveted to both the Spar and the lower leading edge skin. Is that going
to cause me a problem later when the tanks go in? Or is it OK? I wanted
to ask here first for those who have already traveled this path.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98244#98244
Message 31
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I think you're in a position we've all been in. I always get unmotivated when
facing a challenging task, especially if I know the consequences of doing it wrong
will be expensive. Hopefully, venting here has helped you some.
My solution when I get stuck is simply to walk away. Do something else. Visit
family and friends you've been neglecting while stuck in the garage with your
project. After giving yourself time away from the project, you can approach
it with a fresh mind and attitude.
Second, I always keep the goal in mind. This is my first airplane (701) I've ever
built. How cool will it be when it's a flying machine! If you get yourself
over the current hump, you're that much closer to that goal.
I just finished joining the cabin to the rear fuselage. It's a challenge to make
sure everything is level with no twist in the airframe. The consequences of
getting it wrong when you start drilling and clecoing could be harsh. Right
before I started drilling, I was reminded of a quote from the movie "The Matrix":
"There is no spoon". [Wink]
Keep in mind that by working on your project, you are actually contributing to
aviation. It requires motivation and patience, but it is certainly an attainable
goal.
Good luck,
Dan
P.S. - If I could keep my tolerances down to .5mm, I would be 'dancing in the streets'
happy.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98258#98258
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Hi Wade,
I'm probably misunderstanding this situation. On my torque tube
there is a welded steel bar on the rear end that connects to the
ailerons. I don't know if this does much to keep the tube in place,
but eventually it would stop forward movement.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 05:08 PM 3/1/2007, you wrote:
>Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque
>tube .I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to
>keep the torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a
>forward stop somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop
>similar to the one controlling the rearward movement .
>Wade Jones South Texas
>601XL plans building
>Cont. 0200
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 33
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Hey Ryan,
I think all of us scratch builders suffer from a lack of motivation at times. Watching
the progress of other builders via their websites and emailed photos is
a real motivator for me. I have a core group of internet buddies. We share our
triumphs and mistakes with each other. Being part of this group of people all
striving for a common goal keeps me going during those slow times.
I think jumping from building the tail section from a kit straight into building
spars from scratch would be a real test for most people. Building the spars
is one of the most challenging tasks in the whole project. You might find it more
rewarding to focus on something a little easier that would yield quicker rewards.
The ailerons are fairly easy, and you have those nice big finished parts
finished in a relatively short period of time.
You might also consider having an EAA technical counselor come look at your work.
Like you, I was wondering if i was doing a good job. Having a tech counselor
validate your workmanship will increase your confidence level dramatically.
I'm a psychiatric nurse by trade. If I can build an airplane from scratch, anyone
can!
do not archive
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
almost done with my first wing
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98261#98261
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 |
Welcome to the club, Ron. I riveted the #4 noserib before fitting my fuel tank.
And guess what...when I went to install the tank it wasn't even close. I solved
the issue by adding an extra nose rib just inboard of NR4. The new rib fits
snugly next to the outboard end of the tank.
Thanks for the great idea of the wing rotating device.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98263#98263
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
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to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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