---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/02/07: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: Torque tube (Beckman, Rick) 2. 04:33 AM - Re: Torque tube (wade jones) 3. 05:54 AM - Re: Torque tube (Bryan Martin) 4. 05:54 AM - Re: dual throttles (Richard Vetterli) 5. 06:01 AM - Re: Hangar Doors (Aaron Gustafson) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Motivation (Aaron Gustafson) 7. 06:41 AM - Corvair 3100 for sale (lamont) 8. 06:51 AM - Re: 601XL Canopy fitting process. (Dino Bortolin) 9. 07:40 AM - Re: Corvair motor mount (Jason Bogli) 10. 08:51 AM - Re: dual throttles (ronlee) 11. 09:40 AM - Re: Torque tube (Southern Reflections) 12. 10:09 AM - Re: LRI versus Stall warning (ronlee) 13. 10:20 AM - Member location (robert stone) 14. 01:32 PM - Re: Motivation (ashontz) 15. 01:37 PM - Corvair motor mount (Matt Stecher) 16. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: LRI versus Stall warning (japhillipsga@aol.com) 17. 01:43 PM - Re: Motivation (ashontz) 18. 01:57 PM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz) 19. 02:00 PM - Re: aileron trim system (ashontz) 20. 02:03 PM - Re: aileron trim system (ashontz) 21. 02:19 PM - Re: What does it mean? (ashontz) 22. 02:25 PM - Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 (PatrickW) 23. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 (Michael Valentine) 24. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: aileron trim system (Bryan Martin) 25. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: dual throttles (Phil Maxson) 26. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: dual throttles (David Downey) 27. 06:15 PM - Re: Corvair 3100 for sale (Ron Lendon) 28. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Corvair 3100 for sale (Craig Payne) 29. 06:45 PM - Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 (Ron Lendon) 30. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: dual throttles (Craig Payne) 31. 06:53 PM - Re: dual throttles (Ron Lendon) 32. 07:21 PM - Re: aileron trim system (ashontz) 33. 09:37 PM - lri gauge (john butterfield) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Torque tube From: "Beckman, Rick" Wade, Paul (and others), the stick hooks onto the torque tube and the elevator cables connect to the stick. As the cables are tensioned, rear pulling force is exerted onto the stick and torque tube holding it in place. I had the same Q's in the beginning. It will be OK, I assure you. Rick Beckman Zodie Rocket XL 52EB (r) Midwest Mudworks 729 MSL and sinking www.sharbo.us/thebird Do Not Archive Hi Wade, I'm probably misunderstanding this situation. On my torque tube there is a welded steel bar on the rear end that connects to the ailerons. I don't know if this does much to keep the tube in place, but eventually it would stop forward movement. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 05:08 PM 3/1/2007, you wrote: Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque tube .I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to keep the torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a forward stop somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop similar to the one controlling the rearward movement . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:37 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Torque tube Thanks Group for the replys on the torque tube . This puts my mind at ease on this issue . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Beckman, Rick To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Torque tube Wade, Paul (and others), the stick hooks onto the torque tube and the elevator cables connect to the stick. As the cables are tensioned, rear pulling force is exerted onto the stick and torque tube holding it in place. I had the same Q's in the beginning. It will be OK, I assure you. Rick Beckman Zodie Rocket XL 52EB =AE Midwest Mudworks 729 MSL and sinking www.sharbo.us/thebird Do Not Archive Hi Wade, I'm probably misunderstanding this situation. On my torque tube there is a welded steel bar on the rear end that connects to the ailerons. I don't know if this does much to keep the tube in place, but eventually it would stop forward movement. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 05:08 PM 3/1/2007, you wrote: Hello group ,Am I missing something with my control stick /torque tube .I can find nothing other than the cables from the elevator to keep the torque tube from coming forward .Have I missed finding a forward stop somewhere , Seems as though there should be a stop similar to the one controlling the rearward movement . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:01 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Torque tube I have the Zenith supplied Volkswagon radiator. I think it's the same one used for the Rotax installation. I don't have an oil cooler, just cooling air flowing around the oil pan. On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:15 PM, Southern Reflections wrote: > Bryan,this is off sub ,but what type of cooler are you using on > your ram subaru JOE N101HD -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:53 AM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles Check out Williams Wynne's sight (www.flycorvair.com). He has a picture (I think it is on Phil Maxon's 601) showing dual control rods running from the IP to a control bar on the firewall which controls one throttle cable. Rich Vetterli 601XL/Corvair Wings & tail complete. Working on engine and waiting for fuselage kit. Check out my progress at www.geocities.com/stixx5a TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:45 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hangar Doors One consideration I have not seen mentioned for those of us who live in the snow belts, is do you have to move snow to open the door. Only the ones that go up are immune. Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:55 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation This may or may not help with motivation but I started my scratch built HD in February of 1996. I hope to fly it this spring. Took a 3 year vacation from it about in the middle. I had another plane to fly in the meantime though, on which I put 440 hours. Just keep picking away at it and if you get tired or discouraged with one part, build something else and come back to the other. And as Chris Heinz says "don't sacrifice your family for an airplane". Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:48 AM PST US From: lamont Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair 3100 for sale I may be interested in selling my Corvair 3100 conversion. The vast majority of the assembly was done in WW's shop with excellent care by his personnel. It is nearly a complete FWF and includes nitrided crank, prop, prop hub, starter, MA-3SPA, new style nosebowl, ignition, dynamo, angle port exhaust, and several premium extras. I suspect that it would take quite a bit of time to get a running 3100 if you do not already have the conversion parts and the parts from WW. Email me off-list if interested. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:51 AM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Canopy fitting process. Did you look at http://www.ch601.org/resources/canopy_install/Canopyfitting2.pdf Dino On 3/1/07, Gig Giacona wrote: > > Has anyone come up with a better way to fit the canopy than the use of the > plywood template as shown in 6-C-3A of the assembly manual? > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98120#98120 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:28 AM PST US From: "Jason Bogli" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair motor mount Wondering whether anyone had the dimensions for a 601xl corvair motor mount. Thanks in advance Jason. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lamont" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 9:41 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair 3100 for sale > > I may be interested in selling my Corvair 3100 conversion. The vast > majority of the assembly was done in WW's shop with excellent care by > his personnel. It is nearly a complete FWF and includes nitrided crank, > prop, prop hub, starter, MA-3SPA, new style nosebowl, ignition, dynamo, > angle port exhaust, and several premium extras. I suspect that it would > take quite a bit of time to get a running 3100 if you do not already > have the conversion parts and the parts from WW. Email me off-list if > interested. > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles From: "ronlee" I flew my 701 for 60 hours with two throttles. I had the same concern about operating the right throttle while the left is locked. I sat in the right seat and found I could operate the pilot side throttle just fine. I took the right side throttle out and put a glove box there, now that is a handy item. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98312#98312 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:57 AM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Torque tube Bryan couldyou send me a couple of picts.? Thanks Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Martin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Torque tube I have the Zenith supplied Volkswagon radiator. I think it's the same one used for the Rotax installation. I don't have an oil cooler, just cooling air flowing around the oil pan. On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:15 PM, Southern Reflections wrote: Bryan,this is off sub ,but what type of cooler are you using on your ram subaru JOE N101HD -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: LRI versus Stall warning From: "ronlee" I fly a 701, 100 Hp. I have a steam gage (machanical) LRI. I have flown with it since the first hour of flight, so I feel I can speak with some authority about the usefullness of it. As others have said it does not just tell when a stall is near, but one can see all the way down the scale as lift reserve is diminishing right down to the actual stall. As we all know the stall does not always occur at the same airspeed, it depends on the load, outside temperature etc. If one wants to maintain a certaain degree of lift reserve on landing it can only be done with a LRI . This can't be done with an ASI as the stall speed changes depending on all of the above. Has my LRI been usefull, yes. One time my pitot was pluged by an insect that had laid eggs of some sort way up in the pitot tube. I was about fifty feet in the air and noticed very little air speed on the ASI .By looking at the LRI I was assured that I had sufficent speed, lift to maintain a safe flight. When it came time to land I could be assured I had enough lift to do it safley and without excessive speed. All my landings are done by refering to the LRI. Would I be without one in a STOL airplane, no. I am told that near every plane in Alaska has a LRI. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98323#98323 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:55 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Member location Members, Any member living in Enid, Oklahoma or near by please contact me off net. Tracy Stone ZodiacXL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation From: "ashontz" brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in this whole scratch building process due to the money part of it, after completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers to those questions, I'm just venting :) ) > > So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to build in a warp. What have others done during this phase? > > Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent. > > (by the way, it's a 701) Spar drilling. Lot's of clamps. Then clecos obviously. Motivation, break it down into smaller projects. Right now you're not building a plane, you're building an assembly of a plane, and to break it down further you're building an assembly of an assembly. Enjoy watching each piece come together correctly. Later you'll put it all together into a plane. Don't put a tme limit on yourself. Just look at the time in the garage as YOUR time. That's it. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98358#98358 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:35 PM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair motor mount Jason and list, I have kept the following on my computer, but still have a few questions on the same topic. If that does not work you can search for "HDS center of thrust/corvair mount" and that should turn it up. It is also listed at message number 37025 and was posted on Jan 21, 2006. Attached per reference is the message that this search will find: "My 601XL WW mount has the datum about 14-3/8" in front of the firewall and it cants to the left about 2 or 3 degrees (obviously I haven't tried to measure the angle very accurately)." Looking at the plans ... the datum point vertical reference is the upper longerons intersection with the firewall. Though different engines seem to have different offsets from this point. The Jabiru is 23mm above, the 0-235 is 15 below, the O200 is 10 above. Though the plans also show the actual measurement from the firewall referenced back to the upper engine mount bolt locations which is 15mm above the longeron elevation. It might be easiest to check the other engine mount drawings for reference, 6-JE-1 or similar, rather than trying to visualize my verbal attempt above. In plan view the prop flange is centered on the aircrafts centerline and the offset is built in from there depending on rotation direction of the prop. On a Corvair engine that is spinning normally counter clockwise from the pilots perspective, the rear of the engine would be canted to your right. In a question I had for WW a while back, asking the same thing, he said he only had a degree or so of angle here and never had any troubles with it. If any of this post does not ring true than I hope someone with the correct answers chimes in since this is the direction I will be going in when its time to build the mount. I also will be holding off until after my airframe is complete so that my weight and balance calcs can verify the size of my mount. Happy Flying to all, Matt Stecher Corvair / 601XL Tail -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jason Bogli Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair motor mount Wondering whether anyone had the dimensions for a 601xl corvair motor mount. Thanks in advance Jason. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: LRI versus Stall warning From: japhillipsga@aol.com I have an AOA LRI on my XL. I was making rocket landings because rudder control felt so good and because I could. The LRI allowed me to slow down and feel assured she would keep flying even low and slow. My landings have become somewhat dull benign affairs now and my passengers seldom cry out and beg for Help! as noticeably as they once did. So all in all, the LRI can be a useful tool. Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: rlee468@comcast.net Sent: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: LRI versus Stall warning I fly a 701, 100 Hp. I have a steam gage (machanical) LRI. I have flown with it since the first hour of flight, so I feel I can speak with some authority about the usefullness of it. As others have said it does not just tell when a stall is near, but one can see all the way down the scale as lift reserve is diminishing right down to the actual stall. As we all know the stall does not always occur at the same airspeed, it depends on the load, outside temperature etc. If one wants to maintain a certaain degree of lift reserve on landing it can only be done with a LRI . This can't be done with an ASI as the stall speed changes depending on all of the above. Has my LRI been usefull, yes. One time my pitot was pluged by an insect that had laid eggs of some sort way up in the pitot tube. I was about fifty feet in the air and noticed very little air speed on the ASI .By looking at the LRI I was assured that I had sufficent speed, lift to maintain a safe flight. When it came time to land I could be assured I had enough lift to do it safley and without excessive speed. All my landings are done by refering to the LRI. Would I be without one in a STOL airplane, no. I am told that near every plane in Alaska has a LRI. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98323#98323 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation From: "ashontz" brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in this whole scratch building process due to the money part of it, after completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers to those questions, I'm just venting :) ) > > So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to build in a warp. What have others done during this phase? > > Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent. > > (by the way, it's a 701) Spar drilling. Lot's of clamps. Then clecos obviously. Motivation, break it down into smaller projects. Right now you're not building a plane, you're building an assembly of a plane, and to break it down further you're building an assembly of an assembly. Enjoy watching each piece come together correctly. Later you'll put it all together into a plane. Don't put a tme limit on yourself. Just look at the time in the garage as YOUR time. That's it. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98361#98361 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets From: "ashontz" rickpitcher wrote: > --- The bucking bar I have is pretty substantial, as is the table, even if it is wood, but the table may be contributing to not getting a full set on the rivet. I'll try it with the bar on the concrete floor.[/quote] I've been told that my posts appear blank in the web-based matronics list, so I'll repeat myself here on the web-based list... : Try it with the rivet gun in one hand and the bucking bar in the other, or get someone else to hold the bucking bar. That's the way I was taught many years ago, it's still the prefered method. Springs and tables are just gonna add complexity to a simple operation. Rick Pitcher millions of rivets shot, only a couple hundred drilled out ;) Lockheed, Northrop, Grumman... retired and STILL shooting rivets[/quote] Thanks, but I actually like the way the springs hold the assembly. I had to work real hard if I wanted to mess up a rivet that way. Plus, I can't see how holding the bucking bar is going to give you the best set. Obviously if you're riveting a wing skin in the middle and the other skin is already on, you have no choice but to hold the bucking bar. This is a different situation. Thanks though. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98363#98363 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: aileron trim system From: "ashontz" craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > Isn't the position of the large control surfaces actually unchanged by the > trim (dictated by the control cables or tubes). I thought the trim tabs just > deflect small amounts of air on their own. > > -- Craig The trim tab deflects air, causing a counter force at the hinge point of the trim tab in the opposite direction of the trim tab which pushes the control surface, which acts on the air and causes the plane to trim differently. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98365#98365 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: aileron trim system From: "ashontz" amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. PLane was at 2000 ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was turing slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button. Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite direction. SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface. > > After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine. > > Juan > > -- >From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the control surface? -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98366#98366 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:39 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? From: "ashontz" Does this mean you can't register as LSA after a certain date too? What the hell was the point of LSA in the first place then? As far as the other points, if registered before 2008, no fuel surcharge and no landing surcharge? After that you have to pay for all this crap? I can't imagine them at EAA or AOPA letting this type of she-it actually pass. Insane. Do you think small airports with class D or E airspace would actually put charge. Unlikely, or they'd out of business in no time. I hate government. Seriously. Anyone that that doesn't think we live in Communist Light is off their rocker. I'd love to see the whole thing collapse and all of these politicians out on their asses. Got gold? -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98370#98370 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 From: "PatrickW" What a timely post! I think you are about 2 days ahead of me. I bet I would have riveted that rib too... FWIW, your post may have helped me avoid some pain. Thanks, - Patrick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98372#98372 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:43 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 FWIW, I assumed that suggestion in the manual was for the "old" wing design that had four ribs inboard of the tank. I had such a kit, and I didn't rivet #4 until everything was in - but, again, that was the first rib INBOARD of the tank. I did rivet the first one outboard and I never had any trouble. Dunno, am I wrong and builders should wait to rivet the first outboard rib from the tank? Michael in NH Fuselage, ho. do not archive On 3/2/07, PatrickW wrote: > > > What a timely post! I think you are about 2 days ahead of me. > > I bet I would have riveted that rib too... > > FWIW, your post may have helped me avoid some pain. > > Thanks, > > - Patrick > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98372#98372 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:37 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: aileron trim system I know that on Mooneys, the pitch trim tilts the the whole tail assembly. Some trim systems use springs that directly pull the control surface up or down. I don't know of any that change the pitch of the whole wing. On Mar 2, 2007, at 5:03 PM, ashontz wrote: > > > amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: >> nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. >> PLane was at 2000 ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was turing >> slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button. Looking left >> expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see >> it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the >> trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. >> The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the >> trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that >> it is attached to in the opposite direction. SO when you want to >> trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, >> raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection >> turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the >> leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims >> on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface. >> >> After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct >> mine. >> >> Juan >> >> -- > > >> From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control >> surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's >> some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the >> control surface? > > -------- > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:57 PM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles Yes, that could be my plane. I used the standard zenith throttle control h orn and two push rods through the firewall to control a single cable to the carb. I don't have any throttle locks because there is plenty of friction in the system to keep the throttle from creeping. It works well. I would n't change it.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:54:22 -0800> From: richvetterli@yahoo.com> Subje ct: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles > > > Check out Williams Wynne's sight (www.flycorvair.com).> He has a pictur e (I think it is on Phil Maxon's 601)> showing dual control rods running fr om the IP to a> control bar on the firewall which controls one> throttle ca ble.> Rich Vetterli _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:05 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles Hey Phil; Do you happen to have the exact page reference for that photo? I wandered back and forth through WWs site and was unable to stumble over it. Thanks! do not archive Phil Maxson wrote: P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Yes, that could be my plane. I used the standard zenith throttle control horn and two push rods through the firewall to control a single cable to the carb. I don't have any throttle locks because there is plenty of friction in the system to keep the throttle from creeping. It works well. I wouldn't change it. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey --------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:54:22 -0800 > From: richvetterli@yahoo.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles > > > Check out Williams Wynne's sight (www.flycorvair.com). > He has a picture (I think it is on Phil Maxon's 601) > showing dual control rods running from the IP to a > control bar on the firewall which controls one > throttle cable. > Rich Vetterli --------------------------------- Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair 3100 for sale From: "Ron Lendon" I might be interested in knowing more. Your email address would help. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98411#98411 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:55 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair 3100 for sale lamont.s@greenempire.net -- Craig ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL Nose Rib 4 From: "Ron Lendon" Hey Dave, Be careful with that lifting device. I had the wing elevated and opened the garage door. Good thing I had the pressure set low on the door because it began lifting the wing higher and I was no where near the control for the door opener. I think I messed myself, but nothing was harmed. [Laughing] -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98416#98416 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:55 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles Google image search to the rescue ("phil site:www.flycorvair.com"): www.flycorvair.com/26890.jpg Linked from about halfway down this page: www.flycorvair.com/hangar0206.html -- Craig ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual throttles From: "Ron Lendon" Heres one: Search the page for "Phil's plane" -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98418#98418 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: aileron trim system From: "ashontz" bryanmmartin wrote: > I know that on Mooneys, the pitch trim tilts the the whole tail > assembly. Some trim systems use springs that directly pull the > control surface up or down. I don't know of any that change the pitch > of the whole wing. > > > On Mar 2, 2007, at 5:03 PM, ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > > > nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. > > > PLane was at 2000 ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was turing > > > slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button. Looking left > > > expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see > > > it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the > > > trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. > > > The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the > > > trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that > > > it is attached to in the opposite direction. SO when you want to > > > trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, > > > raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection > > > turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the > > > leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims > > > on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface. > > > > > > After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct > > > mine. > > > > > > Juan > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control > > > surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's > > > some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the > > > control surface? > > > > -------- > > CH601XL - Corvair > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. No, not the pitch of the whole wing. I just thought you were refering to a trim tab that was just like a regular small aileron on the wing. That's the way it sounded the way you described it. Never heard of heard of anything like that. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98427#98427 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:23 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: lri gauge hi list i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00. a really good deal. i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from electric power. again, please look into this system as it will make your flying easier and may save your life thanks for the tip doug john butterfield 601XL, corvair torrance, ca Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! 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