---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/03/07: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Re: What does it mean? (ashontz) 2. 06:31 AM - Re: dual throttles (Phil Maxson) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Dave Ruddiman) 4. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Motivation (Ryan Vechinski) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Bryan Martin) 6. 07:35 AM - Looking for builders in Maine (Ryan Vechinski) 7. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Bryan Martin) 8. 08:02 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz) 9. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (Bill Naumuk) 10. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Bill Naumuk) 11. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Dave Ruddiman) 12. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: Motivation (Big Gee) 13. 09:28 AM - Fuel for Jabiru 3300 (robert stone) 14. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (David Downey) 15. 09:58 AM - Re: What does it mean? (ashontz) 16. 10:00 AM - Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (ashontz) 17. 10:13 AM - Longeron shaping (Michael Valentine) 18. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Bryan Martin) 19. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Motivation (Brian Bowen) 20. 10:52 AM - 701 wing extentions (Brian Bowen) 21. 11:41 AM - Re: Longeron shaping (Jaybannist@cs.com) 22. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Jim Logajan) 23. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Edward Moody II) 24. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Jim Logajan) 25. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (Gary Boothe) 26. 12:51 PM - Re: Longeron shaping (Don Mountain) 27. 12:53 PM - Re: Longeron shaping (LHusky@aol.com) 28. 01:02 PM - Re: Longeron shaping (LHusky@aol.com) 29. 01:17 PM - Re: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 (T. Graziano) 30. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets (Flydog1966@aol.com) 31. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (JOHN STARN) 32. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (JOHN STARN) 33. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: What does it mean? (JOHN STARN) 34. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 (robert stone) 35. 04:20 PM - wing extentions (Brian Bowen) 36. 05:21 PM - Re: xxx 701 wing extentions (John Bolding) 37. 06:18 PM - Re: xxx 701 wing extentions (Brian Bowen) 38. 07:26 PM - Ya gotta read this! (Bill Naumuk) 39. 07:30 PM - Cockpit side panels? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? From: "ashontz" Gig Giacona wrote: > Higher taxes are bad. That said the current plan being pushed by the FAA will have little effect on the average LSA pilot. The only user fees being proposed are in Bravo airspace. The tax on AvGas will increase from 19.xx cents/Gal to 70 cents/gal so if you can run Mogas you won't be affected by that. > > Here's a link for the FAA's take on the plan. > > http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/reauthorization/media/Questions_Answers.pdf > > > I still think taxes are bad and that this plan is being pushed by the airlines to move some of the cost off of them and on to GA but it isn't as bad as it could have been. Also, there's a real good chance that it isn't going to make it through congress anyway. Reading the link, it actally doesn't sound much different than what they already have in place. Currently we're all already paying for ATC service through fuel. They failed to mention that. That's why 100LL is more expensive than regualr gasoline, there's a huge tax on it already. I remember hearing that years ago. They just want more money. As far as user fees, if I went and landed at PHL international today, I'd get sent a landing fee bill. They may be proposing to extend this to airports with Class C airspace, something like that. That being the case, they can keep Atlantic City International. Who the hell would want to land a small plane in all that crap anyway. The real BS is the fuel surcharge. They actually already have a fuel surcharge. Be nice if the EAA set up a program to help establish more Mo-Gas stations at small airports. That would pretty much take care of this new non-problem for people that traditionally don't want to have much to do with bloated government in the first place. Speaking of that, has anyone seen the US Constituion, we left it aroudn here someplace. Last I saw it Woodrow Wilson was messing with it installing an illegal Federal Reserve, then FDR was messing with it creating a welfare state and conficating real money, then Ike was establishing the precedent of illegal wars, then LBJ was setting the precedent for how to bankrupt a country, then Nixon was messing with it creating a pure fiat currency, then Reagan was using to... -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98465#98465 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:53 AM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dual throttles Yes, that's my plane. I must be really lazy, since I didn't even look it u p. That is a picture of the Throttle Bellcrank 6-E-5-1. The bent piece that c omes off the front of the shelf is made of steel. If you look carefully, y ou'll notice a shaped piece of aluminum angle right beside the steel piece. That provides a little resistance by gently bending the rod upward slight ly. That is why I don't need throttle locks. Not pictured, on both ends, are straight steel push rods that come trough the panel and through the fir ewall ala Zenith standard. They connect to the bellcrank with AN3 bolts. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey From: craig@craigandjean.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Zenit h-List: Re: dual throttlesDate: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:50:19 -0700 Google image search to the rescue ("phil site:www.flycorvair.com"): www.flycorvair.com/26890.jpg Linked from about halfway down this page: www.flycorvair.com/hangar0206.html -- Craig _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger- http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&sourc e=wlmailtagline ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:03 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? ALL THIS TIME, I THOUGHT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A BOAT. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 5:11 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? > > > Gig Giacona wrote: >> Higher taxes are bad. That said the current plan being pushed by the FAA >> will have little effect on the average LSA pilot. The only user fees >> being proposed are in Bravo airspace. The tax on AvGas will increase from >> 19.xx cents/Gal to 70 cents/gal so if you can run Mogas you won't be >> affected by that. >> >> Here's a link for the FAA's take on the plan. >> >> http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/reauthorization/media/Questions_Answers.pdf >> >> >> I still think taxes are bad and that this plan is being pushed by the >> airlines to move some of the cost off of them and on to GA but it isn't >> as bad as it could have been. Also, there's a real good chance that it >> isn't going to make it through congress anyway. > > > Reading the link, it actally doesn't sound much different than what they > already have in place. Currently we're all already paying for ATC service > through fuel. They failed to mention that. That's why 100LL is more > expensive than regualr gasoline, there's a huge tax on it already. I > remember hearing that years ago. They just want more money. > > As far as user fees, if I went and landed at PHL international today, I'd > get sent a landing fee bill. They may be proposing to extend this to > airports with Class C airspace, something like that. That being the case, > they can keep Atlantic City International. Who the hell would want to land > a small plane in all that crap anyway. > > The real BS is the fuel surcharge. They actually already have a fuel > surcharge. > > Be nice if the EAA set up a program to help establish more Mo-Gas stations > at small airports. That would pretty much take care of this new > non-problem for people that traditionally don't want to have much to do > with bloated government in the first place. Speaking of that, has anyone > seen the US Constituion, we left it aroudn here someplace. Last I saw it > Woodrow Wilson was messing with it installing an illegal Federal Reserve, > then FDR was messing with it creating a welfare state and conficating real > money, then Ike was establishing the precedent of illegal wars, then LBJ > was setting the precedent for how to bankrupt a country, then Nixon was > messing with it creating a pure fiat currency, then Reagan was using to... > > -------- > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98465#98465 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:43 AM PST US From: "Ryan Vechinski" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation Thanks to everyone who replied to my email. I've just hit a slump, and a lot of it is because I don't want to screw up my spars. Some of you responded with some tips, and they all will help. I also liked the idea of visiting other builders, and in fact I will be traveling on business in two weeks, so I'll look for someone. (I'll send out a separate email) To those of you building a 701, did you drill your spar caps first, or your web first? I already feel my motivation coming back! Thanks guys! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:02 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? The federal excise tax on aviation gasoline is currently $0.193 per gallon and on auto gas it is $0.184 per gallon. Avgas isn't more expensive because of the tax, it's more expensive because it's produced by a different method than auto gas and to a different specification and the market for avgas is so much smaller than for auto gas. At this time, the federal government does not charge any landing fees, the landing fees that already exist are imposed either by the airport authority itself or by the individual states. The major difference between the current system of funding aviation and the proposed system is that the proposed system will require a large bureaucracy to keep track of who's using what services and who to send the bills to. This bureaucracy will add significant cost to the whole system and will result in higher costs for all users of aviation. The current system of funding consists entirely of point of sale collection of taxes and airline passenger surcharges. There is no need for a large bureaucracy to collect the money so it is much less costly. It seems the main point of the proposed funding scheme is to shift the cost of the aviation system from the airlines (the primary users of the system) to general aviation by eliminating the current airline passenger surcharges and increasing the fuel tax on other users by 240%. What the government is proposing is basically increasing the number of people sucking money out of the taxpayers pockets. If the government manages to get user fees established for class B airspace and large airports and commercial operators, they will eventually expand it to other classes of airspace and smaller airports and private pilots. Then they will eventually make it mandatory for every pilot to file flight plans and pay user fees for every aspect of aviation. Government is like a fungus, if you don't constantly work to keep it contained it will just keep growing and sucking up more and more resources until it chokes the life out of those who it feeds off of. On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:11 AM, ashontz wrote: > > > Reading the link, it actally doesn't sound much different than what > they already have in place. Currently we're all already paying for > ATC service through fuel. They failed to mention that. That's why > 100LL is more expensive than regualr gasoline, there's a huge tax > on it already. I remember hearing that years ago. They just want > more money. > > As far as user fees, if I went and landed at PHL international > today, I'd get sent a landing fee bill. They may be proposing to > extend this to airports with Class C airspace, something like that. > That being the case, they can keep Atlantic City International. Who > the hell would want to land a small plane in all that crap anyway. > > The real BS is the fuel surcharge. They actually already have a > fuel surcharge. > > -------- > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Gig Giacona wrote: >> Higher taxes are bad. That said the current plan being pushed by >> the FAA will have little effect on the average LSA pilot. The only >> user fees being proposed are in Bravo airspace. The tax on AvGas >> will increase from 19.xx cents/Gal to 70 cents/gal so if you can >> run Mogas you won't be affected by that. >> >> Here's a link for the FAA's take on the plan. >> >> http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/reauthorization/media/ >> Questions_Answers.pdf >> >> >> I still think taxes are bad and that this plan is being pushed by >> the airlines to move some of the cost off of them and on to GA but >> it isn't as bad as it could have been. Also, there's a real good >> chance that it isn't going to make it through congress anyway. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:26 AM PST US From: "Ryan Vechinski" Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for builders in Maine I will be traveling for business in two weeks to Presque Isle, Maine, and I was wondering if anyone was in the immediate vicinity that would be willing to open up their shop to a visitor for an hour or so. I would just like to see what others are doing, tips, etc, and to meet some of you face to face. You can either respond to me here or off list. Ryan Vechinski ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:04 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? It's a SHIP not a BOAT, shame on you. :) On Mar 3, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Dave Ruddiman wrote: > > > ALL THIS TIME, I THOUGHT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A BOAT. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" > >> >> Speaking of that, has anyone seen the US Constituion, we left it >> aroudn here someplace. ... >> >> -------- >> CH601XL - Corvair >> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets From: "ashontz" Tried it on the garage floor. Worked much better. The gun may still be anemic but it go the job done. All are now .270-.280. That should be sufficient. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98487#98487 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:24 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets A- Arnie, Arthur, whatever- get yourself a big chunk of steel (I used 1" thick) and you can get up off your knees. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets > > Tried it on the garage floor. Worked much better. The gun may still be > anemic but it go the job done. All are now .270-.280. That should be > sufficient. > > -------- > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98487#98487 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? All- For those of you not familiar with the cliche, a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into. Oops! That's not the Constitution, that's the federal budget! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ruddiman" Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? > > > ALL THIS TIME, I THOUGHT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A BOAT. > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ashontz" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 5:11 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? > > >> >> >> Gig Giacona wrote: >>> Higher taxes are bad. That said the current plan being pushed by the FAA >>> will have little effect on the average LSA pilot. The only user fees >>> being proposed are in Bravo airspace. The tax on AvGas will increase >>> from 19.xx cents/Gal to 70 cents/gal so if you can run Mogas you won't >>> be affected by that. >>> >>> Here's a link for the FAA's take on the plan. >>> >>> http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/reauthorization/media/Questions_Answers.pdf >>> >>> >>> I still think taxes are bad and that this plan is being pushed by the >>> airlines to move some of the cost off of them and on to GA but it isn't >>> as bad as it could have been. Also, there's a real good chance that it >>> isn't going to make it through congress anyway. >> >> >> Reading the link, it actally doesn't sound much different than what they >> already have in place. Currently we're all already paying for ATC service >> through fuel. They failed to mention that. That's why 100LL is more >> expensive than regualr gasoline, there's a huge tax on it already. I >> remember hearing that years ago. They just want more money. >> >> As far as user fees, if I went and landed at PHL international today, I'd >> get sent a landing fee bill. They may be proposing to extend this to >> airports with Class C airspace, something like that. That being the case, >> they can keep Atlantic City International. Who the hell would want to >> land a small plane in all that crap anyway. >> >> The real BS is the fuel surcharge. They actually already have a fuel >> surcharge. >> >> Be nice if the EAA set up a program to help establish more Mo-Gas >> stations at small airports. That would pretty much take care of this new >> non-problem for people that traditionally don't want to have much to do >> with bloated government in the first place. Speaking of that, has anyone >> seen the US Constituion, we left it aroudn here someplace. Last I saw it >> Woodrow Wilson was messing with it installing an illegal Federal Reserve, >> then FDR was messing with it creating a welfare state and conficating >> real money, then Ike was establishing the precedent of illegal wars, then >> LBJ was setting the precedent for how to bankrupt a country, then Nixon >> was messing with it creating a pure fiat currency, then Reagan was using >> to... >> >> -------- >> CH601XL - Corvair >> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98465#98465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:00 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? I KNEW IT WAS A SHIP, NOT A BOAT. WHEN DOES A BOAT BECOME A SHIP? JUST TESTING. A SUBMARINE IS A BOAT. WHERE IS THIS GOING ANYWAY? DO NOT ARCHIVE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? > > It's a SHIP not a BOAT, shame on you. :) > > On Mar 3, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Dave Ruddiman wrote: > >> >> >> ALL THIS TIME, I THOUGHT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A BOAT. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" >> >>> >>> Speaking of that, has anyone seen the US Constituion, we left it aroudn >>> here someplace. ... >>> >>> -------- >>> CH601XL - Corvair >>> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:28 AM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation spar caps first on the 701=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ryan Vechinski =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, March 3, 2007 10:31:51 AM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Motivat hotmail.com>=0A=0AThanks to everyone who replied to my email. I've just hi t a slump, and=0Aa lot of it is because I don't want to screw up my spars. Some of you=0Aresponded with some tips, and they all will help.=0AI also l iked the idea of visiting other builders, and in fact I will be=0Atraveling on business in two weeks, so I'll look for someone. (I'll=0Asend out a se parate email)=0A =0ATo those of you building a 701, did you drill your spa r caps first, or=0Ayour web first?=0A=0AI already feel my motivation coming =============0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________ __________________________________________________________=0ANever Miss an Email=0AStay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!=0Ahtt p://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:52 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 Members, This question is for those of you who have a Jabiru 3300 engine installed in your aircraft. I would like to know if this engine will run on automobile gas and if so what octane does it do best on. Since most of us do not fly near as often as we drive is there a need to use an additive such as Sta-Bil when leaving fuel in the aircraft for periods of 3 to 5 weeks. Tracy Stone ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:59 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets glad it worked Andrew. There were only a coupel of likely explanations! do not archive ashontz wrote: Tried it on the garage floor. Worked much better. The gun may still be anemic but it go the job done. All are now .270-.280. That should be sufficient. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98487#98487 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? From: "ashontz" naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > All- > For those of you not familiar with the cliche, a boat is a hole in the > water you throw money into. > Oops! That's not the Constitution, that's the federal budget! > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > --- That hole is getting huge. Getting close to a tsunami of inflation coming back at us once foreing holders of US debt decide to dump the dollar. Should be interesting. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98502#98502 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets From: "ashontz" naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > A- > Arnie, Arthur, whatever- get yourself a big chunk of steel (I used 1" > thick) and you can get up off your knees. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuselage > Townville, Pa > --- Andy. The block I have is about 1 1/2"x 2" x 4". It's pretty hefty. Worked better on the ground. I'm done now with the spar rivetting. It did need to be done on the floor though. The riveter probably was marginally up to the task. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98503#98503 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:24 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Longeron shaping Listers - On the 601XL fuse, there are two longerons that meet on the bottom skin - 6b2-1 and 6b2-3. 6b2-3 is the heavy extruded one and it is pre-bent. The guide calls for installing 6b2-1 and then butting 6b2-3 up against it. 6b2-3 then overhangs the front of the skin and gets trimmed. The guide says to trim off the overhanging end. QUESTION - is there any reason I can't trim off the "butt" end? The pre-bent shape of the longeron only matches the skin if I trim the "butt" end - if I butt it up against 6b2-1 and trim the overhang as the guide says to do, the shape is wrong. So, does anyone who has done this step have any reasons as to why simply trimming the "butt" end would not be fine? Thanks, Michael in NH ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:15 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? In the old days of wooden ships and iron men it was easy: a ship had three or more square rigged masts. Now the U.S. Navy defines a boat as any vessel small enough to be hoisted aboard a ship, except for submarines which are traditionally called boats. And you don't dare call a ship a boat in front of a chief or he'll chew your butt off. Where is this going? It's taking on water and sinking fast. :) Encyclopedia Britannica: ship : Large floating vessel capable of crossing open waters. The term formerly was applied to sailing vessels with three or more masts; today it usually denotes a vessel of more than 500 tons' (450 metric tons') displacement. > > > I KNEW IT WAS A SHIP, NOT A BOAT. WHEN DOES A BOAT BECOME A SHIP? > JUST TESTING. A SUBMARINE IS A BOAT. WHERE IS THIS GOING ANYWAY? > -- Bryan Martin AT1 USNR (Ret.) N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:18 AM PST US From: "Brian Bowen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation Hello, I am a 701 scratch builder. I laid out my spar caps first and drilled undersize. Used a 4x12 sheet of aluminum factory edge clamped to workbench as a reference then screwed a 1x2 square edge (wood) to the bench then removed aluminum sheet. You now have a striaght line fence to work to. Brian B Ch701 Scratch Builder >From: Big Gee >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation >Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 09:25:38 -0800 (PST) > >spar caps first on the 701 > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Ryan Vechinski >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2007 10:31:51 AM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation > > > >Thanks to everyone who replied to my email. I've just hit a slump, and >a lot of it is because I don't want to screw up my spars. Some of you >responded with some tips, and they all will help. >I also liked the idea of visiting other builders, and in fact I will be >traveling on business in two weeks, so I'll look for someone. (I'll >send out a separate email) > >To those of you building a 701, did you drill your spar caps first, or >your web first? > >I already feel my motivation coming=========== > > >Never Miss an Email >Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! >http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail _________________________________________________________________ RealLiveMoms: Share your experience with Real Live Moms just like you http://www.reallivemoms.ca/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:12 AM PST US From: "Brian Bowen" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions Hello, There was a recent entry with regards to wing extentions. I can not seem to located it in the Archive. Operate mostly in the mountains of BC on floats, thought the increased wing span would be a benefit. Ch701 Scatch Builder Brian _________________________________________________________________ Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:53 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Longeron shaping Michael, I don't recall trimming either end and my pictorial guide doesn't mention a need for trimming. Howsomever, IMHO it doesn't matter which end you trim (or both if need be), as long as the shape of the bottom skin is followed. I imagine that ZAC intended the longeron curve to match the skin curve with the rear end butted to the rear longeron. But, as we have all discovered, ZAC's intentions are not always met by their execution. Jay in Dallas Do not archive "Michael Valentine" wrote: >Listers - > >On the 601XL fuse, there are two longerons that meet on the bottom skin - >6b2-1 and 6b2-3. 6b2-3 is the heavy extruded one and it is pre-bent. The >guide calls for installing 6b2-1 and then butting 6b2-3 up against it. >6b2-3 then overhangs the front of the skin and gets trimmed. The guide says >to trim off the overhanging end. QUESTION - is there any reason I can't >trim off the "butt" end? The pre-bent shape of the longeron only matches >the skin if I trim the "butt" end - if I butt it up against 6b2-1 and trim >the overhang as the guide says to do, the shape is wrong. So, does anyone >who has done this step have any reasons as to why simply trimming the "butt" >end would not be fine? > >Thanks, Michael in NH > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:58 AM PST US From: Jim Logajan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? Bryan Martin wrote: > Where is this going? It's taking on water and sinking fast. :) Is this a family-oriented list? If so, you guys probably shouldn't be talking ship. ;-) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:09 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? I don't know, which way is the nose of the sub pointed? Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Ruddiman To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? I KNEW IT WAS A SHIP, NOT A BOAT. WHEN DOES A BOAT BECOME A SHIP? JUST TESTING. A SUBMARINE IS A BOAT. WHERE IS THIS GOING ANYWAY? DO NOT ARCHIVE. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:22 PM PST US From: Jim Logajan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? Bryan Martin wrote: > Government is like a fungus, if you don't constantly work to keep it > contained it will just keep growing and sucking up more and more > resources until it chokes the life out of those who it feeds off of. That attribute of government has been known for centuries, as evidenced by the famous quotes: "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Attributed to either Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, or Wendell Phillips. ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1073.html ) Also: "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (17501817) ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1054.html ) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:39 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? How come people don't talk like that anymore? Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Do not archive ...That attribute of government has been known for centuries, as evidenced by the famous quotes: "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Attributed to either Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, or Wendell Phillips. ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1073.html ) Also: "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1054.html ) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:40 PM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Longeron shaping I just finished trimming and installing these longerons a week ago. In my manual is says to install the rear longeron (6B2-1), and then lay the front longeron on top of the skin and move it fore and aft until the shape along the side of the bottom skin match the bend in the longeron (6B2-3) and then trim the front to the front edge of the skin and the rear to meet the rear longeron (6B2-1). Thats what I did and ended up trimming an inch off the front and a couple inches off the back end of each. Don Michael Valentine wrote: Listers - On the 601XL fuse, there are two longerons that meet on the bottom skin - 6b2-1 and 6b2-3. 6b2-3 is the heavy extruded one and it is pre-bent. The guide calls for installing 6b2-1 and then butting 6b2-3 up against it. 6b2-3 then overhangs the front of the skin and gets trimmed. The guide says to trim off the overhanging end. QUESTION - is there any reason I can't trim off the "butt" end? The pre-bent shape of the longeron only matches the skin if I trim the "butt" end - if I butt it up against 6b2-1 and trim the overhang as the guide says to do, the shape is wrong. So, does anyone who has done this step have any reasons as to why simply trimming the "butt" end would not be fine? Thanks, Michael in NH --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:17 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Longeron shaping I fitted mine to the front firewall first and then when I had all my angles right, I had 101 mm at the rear. I found that there was no need to trim anything. I checked the shape and it matched perfectly. I am scratch building, but I did buy those upper longerons. We were having trouble finding someone who would send the right length raw material. We were coming up 40 mm short, plus it is much harder forming the thicker .125 angle. I was really happy with the factory longerons. Larry Husky 601XL


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:55 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Longeron shaping Well, I guess I should have read more, I thought we were talking about the top longerons. Yes, I had to trim about an inch from the front. Butted them to the rear lower longerons and then trimmed the front. Worked great. Larry Husky 601XL do not archive


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:07 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 My Jab 3300 runs just fine on hi-octane MOGAS. It also runs fine on 100LL. Jab recommends 100LL or minimum 95 Octane RON (Leaded or unleaded) MOGAS, which I believe is minimum 91 Octane as shown on US gas pumps. It also runs fine on 100LL. I probably use four times as much mogas as avgas. My ratios have been from all LLto all mogas and probably everywhere in between with no problems. I fly at least an hour or more per week. I would not think that the mogas would become "stale" after only 3 - 5 weeks, but I am sure there are experts out there who could address this. Another thing nice about the Jab, vice the Rotac, is you can use either LL or hi-octanemogas without being concerned. I believe the Rotac recommends only unleaded, with only minimal use of 100LL if unleaded can not be procured - something about the oil it uses,I believe.Tony Graziano601XL; N493TG; 211 hrs===================Members, This question is for those of you who have a Jabiru 3300 engine installed in your aircraft. I would like to know if this engine will run on automobile gas and if so what octane does it do best on. Since most of us do not fly near as often as we drive is there a need to use an additive such as Sta-Bil when leaving fuel in the aircraft for periods of 3 to 5 weeks. Tracy Stone ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:06 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Solid riveting spar - setting solid AN6 rivets In a message dated 3/3/2007 1:01:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz@nbme.org writes: I'm done now with the spar rivetting. Well,unless you made 2 left spars. You now have a compulsive urge to go check,don't you : ) He-He. Please do not archive


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:29 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? I've been told that screen doors don't work very well on submarines 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? I don't know, which way is the nose of the sub pointed? Dred I KNEW IT WAS A SHIP, NOT A BOAT. WHEN DOES A BOAT BECOME A SHIP? JUST TESTING. A SUBMARINE IS A BOAT. WHERE IS THIS GOING ANYWAY? DO NOT ARCHIVE. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:02 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? That's because most of those now in power were "flower" children, and the others are teachers who care only if you can "communicate" or question what "is" is. 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive Gary Boothe" > > How come people don't talk like that anymore? > > > ...That attribute of government has been known for centuries, as evidenced > by the famous quotes: > > "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." > > Attributed to either Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, or Wendell > Phillips. ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1073.html ) > > Also: > > "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey > to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is > eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the > consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." > > John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) ( http://www.bartleby.com/73/1054.html ) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:50 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? Nope, a boat is that thingy ya'll serve gravy in.. 8*) KABONG Do Not Archive ubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What does it mean? > > > ALL THIS TIME, I THOUGHT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A BOAT. > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:52 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 T Graziano, First let me say you have a name to be proud. One of the best prize ring boxers this country ever produced had the same name. Thanks much for the information. I am just about ready to fly. Tracy Stone ZodiacXL N4337G 0 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: T. Graziano To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel for Jabiru 3300 My Jab 3300 runs just fine on hi-octane MOGAS. It also runs fine on 100LL. Jab recommends 100LL or minimum 95 Octane RON (Leaded or unleaded) MOGAS, which I believe is minimum 91 Octane as shown on US gas pumps. It also runs fine on 100LL. I probably use four times as much mogas as avgas. My ratios have been from all LLto all mogas and probably everywhere in between with no problems. I fly at least an hour or more per week. I would not think that the mogas would become "stale" after only 3 - 5 weeks, but I am sure there are experts out there who could address this. Another thing nice about the Jab, vice the Rotac, is you can use either LL or hi-octanemogas without being concerned. I believe the Rotac recommends only unleaded, with only minimal use of 100LL if unleaded can not be procured - something about the oil it uses,I believe. Tony Graziano601XL; N493TG; 211 hrs ===================Members, This question is for those of you who have a Jabiru 3300 engine installed in your aircraft. I would like to know if this engine will run on automobile gas and if so what octane does it do best on. Since most of us do not fly near as often as we drive is there a need to use an additive such as Sta-Bil when leaving fuel in the aircraft for periods of 3 to 5 weeks. Tracy Stone ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:50 PM PST US From: "Brian Bowen" Subject: Zenith-List: wing extentions Hi, I read a few days back , someone was looking for info on wing extentions for the CH701. I am also interested but can't find it in the archive. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Brian _________________________________________________________________ Win a trip for four to a concert anywhere in the world! http://www.mobilelivetour.ca/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:06 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: xxx Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions Dave Fisher posted it, if you can't find it gimme a note off list and i'll send you what he sent me. LOW&SLOW John jnbolding1"at" teleshare"dot" net ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Bowen To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: xxx Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions Hello, There was a recent entry with regards to wing extentions. I can not seem to located it in the Archive. Operate mostly in the mountains of BC on floats, thought the increased wing span would be a benefit. Ch701 Scatch Builder Brian _________________________________________________________________ Don't waste time standing in line-try shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:22 PM PST US From: "Brian Bowen" Subject: Re: xxx Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions Thanks so much John ! FOUND IT Brian >From: "John Bolding" >To: >Subject: Re: xxx Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions >Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 17:58:00 -0600 > >Dave Fisher posted it, if you can't find it gimme a note off list and i'll >send you what he sent me. LOW&SLOW John jnbolding1"at" >teleshare"dot" net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Bowen > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: xxx Zenith-List: 701 wing extentions > > > > > Hello, > There was a recent entry with regards to wing extentions. I can not >seem to > located it in the Archive. > Operate mostly in the mountains of BC on floats, thought the increased >wing > span would be a benefit. > > Ch701 Scatch Builder > Brian > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't waste time standing in line-try shopping online. Visit Sympatico / >MSN > Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca > > _________________________________________________________________ Free Alerts: Be smart - let your information find you! http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:22 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Ya gotta read this! All- This is the honest to God's truth! Had a gent over today to look at my project. He's trying to decide whether to build a Zenith or a Sonex. I figured the best way of showing him the ropes was to walk him through the installation of a part. I'm on the last step of the last page of the rear fuse in the HDS builder's manual, where you install the fairings that cover the rudder cables. So I say, here's part 6F4-1. You go to page 6F4 of the prints, and if you're building from scratch the dimensions are shown in ... No, I guess they aren't. Well, maybe they're in the construction manual. Nope. When all else fails, there's the old typewriter and hand drawn manual, and HERE IT IS! "At this stage cut out the rudder cable outlet. Make a couple of nice looking covers by bending .016 cut offs over a table edge or in the vice, (sic) and fit them over the slots." He looked at me and said "That does it for the Sonex. All they give you is the prints!" I hate to say it, but- do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuselage Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:03 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Cockpit side panels? Gang: Would like to hear some ideas on good/interesting materials to use for the side panels in the cockpit. I am thinking possibly of not painting nor covering them. Some things I thought of were: 1/8" tempered hardboard (smooth side to inside) .060 Plexiglas (could be left clear or painted) 1/16" or 2 mm aircraft plywood Possible coverings might be prop paint, floor paint, truck bedliner, counter laminate, etc. (and, of course, material to match the seats) Would like to have a light weight, but tough installation. Any comments and ideas? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.