---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/08/07: 45 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:12 AM - Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? (secatur) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: New "European XL" from Zenith? (dfmoeller) 3. 06:25 AM - 801 Prop (Dave Ruddiman) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A (aprazer) 5. 08:22 AM - LRI pickup (dj45) 6. 08:30 AM - canopy for 601XL? (David Downey) 7. 08:51 AM - 0-200 ignition harness (Aaron Gustafson) 8. 08:51 AM - Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) (Michael Valentine) 9. 09:19 AM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (Craig Payne) 10. 09:25 AM - Re: Wake Turbulence Article (kkinney) 11. 10:02 AM - Paint on 4130 steel (txpilot) 12. 10:27 AM - Re: Paint on 4130 steel (Aaron Gustafson) 13. 10:41 AM - Re: Paint on 4130 steel (Bill Steer) 14. 11:16 AM - Firewall Primer Question (DaveG601XL) 15. 11:19 AM - Re: Firewall Primer Question (ashontz) 16. 11:32 AM - Re: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) (Jaybannist@cs.com) 17. 11:44 AM - Re: Firewall Primer Question (Jaybannist@cs.com) 18. 12:01 PM - Re:Re: Faa registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A (MaxNr@aol.com) 19. 12:28 PM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (David Downey) 20. 12:31 PM - Re: Firewall Primer Question (David Downey) 21. 12:53 PM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (Craig Payne) 22. 01:13 PM - 601HDS flys with new Spring Gear (PHFD400@aol.com) 23. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A (Bryan Martin) 24. 01:34 PM - Re: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) (Bryan Martin) 25. 01:34 PM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 26. 01:40 PM - Re: Firewall Primer Question (Bryan Martin) 27. 01:42 PM - Re: Firewall Primer Question (DaveG601XL) 28. 01:55 PM - Zenair Floats (Tommy Walker) 29. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A (Gordon) 30. 02:39 PM - Re: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) (PatrickW) 31. 02:47 PM - Registgration (robert stone) 32. 03:00 PM - Re: fuel tank leak in 801 (Lynn & Nancy) 33. 03:13 PM - Re: Paint on 4130 steel (ROBERT SCEPPA) 34. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A (Bryan Martin) 35. 03:28 PM - Re: Standard "L" (Bill Naumuk) 36. 03:43 PM - Re: 601HDS flys with new Spring Gear (LarryMcFarland) 37. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: vg's (JG) 38. 04:19 PM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (David Downey) 39. 04:23 PM - Re: canopy for 601XL? (David Downey) 40. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: vg's (JG) 41. 04:37 PM - flight attitude of XL?? (David Downey) 42. 04:57 PM - Re: Registration E-LSA or E-AB (MaxNr@aol.com) 43. 06:51 PM - Sensenich composite ground adj. prop (AZFlyer) 44. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? (Lynn & Nancy) 45. 08:14 PM - Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? (David X) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? From: "secatur" I LUUUV Posting something that attracts a lot of divergent opinions!!!! GO4IT u guys!LOL I CUT IT OFF!!!! and I LUV IT!!!(but I saved it just in case!!! LOL) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99412#99412 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New "European XL" from Zenith? From: "dfmoeller" David, I agree; adding 15 pounds is a poor alternative to moving existing weight. Plus, not nearly as effective. Do you have any pix of your new installation, particularly the cowling? I'd love to compare the two closely. The new pix on the ZAC website really don't make the nose look 9" longer to me. Does that cowl look like your in the profile ground shot? It looks a lot like my old one. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99425#99425 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:07 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Prop Have any of you 801 builders/owners/pilots looked into the Prince Q-Tip propellers? I think that's the name. Seems like the lighter weight on the nose might be beneficial. I'm not making any decisions, just gathering information. Any feed back would be appreciated. It's OK for you other guys building the "smaller" ZAC planes to answer too. Dave in Salem Trying to finish the last wing ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A From: "aprazer" Another benefit that was not mentioned if you register the bird as ESLA is the 5 versus 40 hour fly-off time, use the bird for instruction, ete... If anyone is interested we (Nampa Idaho's EAA and Rainbow Aviation) are putting together a 16 hour course in Nampa (just outside Boise) this spring. We need 16 people -- anyone interested contact me off line @ aprazer@cableone.net Do not archive Mack -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99437#99437 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: LRI pickup From: "dj45" Hi All, Anyone in need of a LRI pickup, I have a machinist who can make them up. Just let me know off list. If I can get 5 or 6 we can get a better price. dj45@modempool.com -------- Do not archive Dan Stanton 90% done 90% to go 801, Deltahawk Diesel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99448#99448 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:06 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? I posted this question a while back and got a few very vague responses but no leads I could follow up on. Does anyone know of someone trying to match a RV6/7 canopy to the 601XL fuse? The planview fuselage width distributions between the two planes, while similar in overall width, have substantial differences in terms of wherer the maximum girth point occurs and also in the direction of taper. I bought the RV study plans so that I could develop CAD models of both installations and see what the specific sticking points would be but have not done that yet. I realize that the after fuselage upper frames and skins will be reshaped and raised a couple of inches to execute this change. I called Zenith and they told me that the XL has, if anything, more than adequate directional stability/control and that the increased height and more squared shoulders should not affect the flight behavior in any detectable way. Any comments? All comments please? Since I am scratch building the bulk of the plane it is not an issue to develop and fabe the adaptation - if it is doable. Thank you all. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:12 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: 0-200 ignition harness I'm at the point of installing the harness on my 0-200 engine. I bought the engine without any of that stuff on it so did not have anything to take a picture of for assembly purposes. I bougt a new Kelly harness which comes w/ all the clamps, brackets and insulators to mount it. What I need is a picture of an engine so I can see how everything is routed and supported. If you have or know where I can see one, please let me know. Thanks Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:13 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) Listers, can those of you in the know give me an idea of how long the fuselage took to build. I know everyone is different, so perhaps relate it to how long it took you to build both wings (e.g. 1x, 2x, 3x, etc.). I might need to start thinking about engines and instruments, some of which obviously have a significant lag time between order and delivery! Thanks, Michael in NH ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:12 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? Instead of struggling to adapt the RV canopy why not make a custom one with the characteristics you want? I believe Todd's Canopies builds custom, one-off canopies from your specs for a reasonable price: http://www.toddscanopies.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wake Turbulence Article From: "kkinney" I agree the NTSB (or courts) will have the final say as to the accident cause. http://tinyurl.com/2zsnls As noted in the above link, the rear spar bolts were present but did not have nuts on them. Wake turbulence may have played a part, though in my opinion, a secondary one. Extending flaps without having the rear spar firmly attached probably had a larger role in the accident. It's a tragedy, but we can all learn from it. Regards, Kevin Kinney Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99464#99464 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Paint on 4130 steel From: "txpilot" I'm almost ready to rivet my cabin frame and LG/strut pickups on my 701. Before doing so, it would probably be best to paint the parts. Can I just use good ol' Krylon for this, or should it be done professionally? Thanks, Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99473#99473 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:08 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint on 4130 steel I've used 2 part epoxy primer on all steel after cleaning well w/ wax and grease remover. It's tough and adheres good and is an excellent base for any top coat. Spray it with a Prevail sprayer (available at car parts store). It's very economical as you only mix what you need even if a 1/2 ounce. Aaron >> to paint the parts. Can I just use good ol' Krylon for this, or should >> it be done professionally? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:21 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint on 4130 steel I'd use a primer first. The one I'm using is Mar-Hyde 5111 self-etching primer. It sticks like nothing else I've tried. You can get it at a good auto parts store or paint supplier. It isn't cheap, but it's worth it. Hope this helps. Bill > I'm almost ready to rivet my cabin frame and LG/strut pickups on my 701. > Before doing so, it would probably be best to paint the parts. Can I just > use good ol' Krylon for this, or should it be done professionally? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall Primer Question From: "DaveG601XL" I am now working on my ZAC galvanized firewall and was looking at two cans of primer I have in the shop, Rustoleum and Duplicolor. Both say not to use on galvanized metal or in areas that might see above 200 degrees F. What have you guys used to prime the firewall? Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, starting fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99492#99492 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall Primer Question From: "ashontz" I hadn't really thought about this, but good point. I bet you porcelane paint that's used for painting woodstoves and barbeques would work well. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99493#99493 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:29 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) Michael, I received my fuselage kit on 5/26/06. I was essentially completed with the fuselage (less FWF, panel & instruments, wiring, upholstery) around 12/10/06. I logged about 420 hours during that time interval. I had logged 290 hours on wings & tail. Jay in Dallas Do not archive "Michael Valentine" wrote: >Listers, can those of you in the know give me an idea of how long the >fuselage took to build. I know everyone is different, so perhaps relate it >to how long it took you to build both wings (e.g. 1x, 2x, 3x, etc.). I >might need to start thinking about engines and instruments, some of which >obviously have a significant lag time between order and delivery! > >Thanks, Michael in NH > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:06 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall Primer Question Dave, I have practiced architecture for 45 years. As you may know, there are lots of places where galvanized steel is used in buildings. The ONLY way to successfully paint galvanized steel is to have it phosphatized, bonderized and prime painted at the factory that produced it. There are products available that claim to be usable on galvanized, but I have not seen any that has succeeded. They all eventually peel. I did use a self-etching primer on mine to isolate the aluminum parts from the galvanized. Jay in Dallas Do not archive "DaveG601XL" wrote: > >I am now working on my ZAC galvanized firewall and was looking at two cans of primer I have in the shop, Rustoleum and Duplicolor. Both say not to use on galvanized metal or in areas that might see above 200 degrees F. What have you guys used to prime the firewall? > >Thanks, > >-------- >David Gallagher >601 XL, tail and wings completed, >starting fueslage. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99492#99492 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:31 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Re: Faa registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A part2_c56.fa5916d.33207a2f_boundary-- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:03 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? Thanks for the suggestion Craig. I spoke with the folks at Todd's and they only blow canopies - no drawn or molded canopies. The primary reason I am considering a different canopy than the original is to get the reduction in useless height in the center and more useful volume at the sides. Craig Payne wrote: Instead of struggling to adapt the RV canopy why not make a custom one with the characteristics you want? I believe Todd's Canopies builds custom, one-off canopies from your specs for a reasonable price: http://www.toddscanopies.com/ -- Craig Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:51 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall Primer Question ...I am wondering why we are painting the galvenized panel? The metalurgists here at work believe that it is perfect the way it is as long as the zinc has not been damaged. Dave, I have practiced architecture for 45 years. As you may know, there are lots of places where galvanized steel is used in buildings. The ONLY way to successfully paint galvanized steel is to have it phosphatized, bonderized and prime painted at the factory that produced it. There are products available that claim to be usable on galvanized, but I have not seen any that has succeeded. They all eventually peel. I did use a self-etching primer on mine to isolate the aluminum parts from the galvanized. Jay in Dallas Do not archive "DaveG601XL" wrote: > >I am now working on my ZAC galvanized firewall and was looking at two cans of primer I have in the shop, Rustoleum and Duplicolor. Both say not to use on galvanized metal or in areas that might see above 200 degrees F. What have you guys used to prime the firewall? > >Thanks, > >-------- >David Gallagher >601 XL, tail and wings completed, >starting fueslage. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99492#99492 > > Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:37 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? Ah, I didn't know the difference. So a blown canopy is basically a soap bubble where you don't have much control over the curve? And in a blown canopy the curve is basically constant while you are looking for a more squat profile? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:15 PM PST US From: PHFD400@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS flys with new Spring Gear Well, I'm back in the air with my new Spring Gear on my 601HDS. After I had the left main gear tube plate weld failure, I replaced my landing gear with the Grove Spring gear. I can report that it works great and I see no airspeed changes between the old factory gear and the new spring gear. I had wheel pants on the old gear, and did not reinstall them and I see no airspeed changes. If interested, you can check out our EAA web site for photos along with a pdf document on how I did the spring gear conversion: _http://eaa121 1.org/olson.html_ (http://eaa1211.org/olson.html) Jim Olson Murphy, NC CH601HDS N56BJ 297 hours


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:55 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A You can offer training to students in an E-LSA and rent out an E-LSA for training purposes but only until January 31, 2010. You can't do either in an E-AB. If you use your E-LSA for training student pilots, the plane will require 100 hour inspections as well as annual inspections. the 100 hour inspections must be done by a repairman with the maintenance rating or and A&P, the inspection rating isn't good enough. http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=25 On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:14 AM, aprazer wrote: > > Another benefit that was not mentioned if you register the bird as > ESLA is the 5 versus 40 hour fly-off time, use the bird for > instruction, ete... -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:19 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) It took me about 125 hours to do my first wing and about 75 to do the second not including the 35 hours it took to build the flaps and ailerons. The fuselage, firewall back, took about 350 hours but I screwed up the forward side skins and had to redo them. On Mar 8, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Michael Valentine wrote: > Listers, can those of you in the know give me an idea of how long > the fuselage took to build. I know everyone is different, so > perhaps relate it to how long it took you to build both wings (e.g. > 1x, 2x, 3x, etc.). -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:51 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? Let me know what you find out about this. I, too, am interested in a different shaped canopy...." to get the reduction in useless height in the center and more useful volume at the sides." The RV canopy is more to my liking. Dave


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:03 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall Primer Question I did'nt paint the firewall. It isn't necessary for protection and it isn't in plain sight so there is no cosmetic reason to paint it either. I did use zinc chromate on the aluminum parts where they attach to the firewall although that probably isn't necessary either. > > > I am now working on my ZAC galvanized firewall and was looking at > two cans of primer I have in the shop, Rustoleum and Duplicolor. > Both say not to use on galvanized metal or in areas that might see > above 200 degrees F. What have you guys used to prime the firewall? > > Thanks, -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall Primer Question From: "DaveG601XL" >From my standpoint, I was really just considering priming it because any surrounding aluminum and carbon steel was also going to be primed. Not that asthetics are greatly important, but all one color was my original plan. I was just a bit suprised to see the "no galvanized metal" comment on the can and did not understand why. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, starting fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99524#99524 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair Floats From: "Tommy Walker" Folks, Does anyone know if CANZAC is going to sell kits for their new floats? I looked on the website but didn't see anything about kits. With spring springing out down here my thoughts are turning to water activities..... Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 Trying to get ready for paint -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99525#99525 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:46 PM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A So, is there a down side if you register a 701 as E-LSA? If I understand what's been said properly, if I register my plane as E-LSA and it were properly equipped it could, for instance, be flown IFR by a properly rated pilot, it could be used for LSA instruction, it could be maintained by someone other than the builder (with a repairman's certificate) who has taken the LSA maintenance course, it would probably have a higher resale value, etc. I'm just wondering why I or anyone else would not go the LSA route? Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A > > You can offer training to students in an E-LSA and rent out an E-LSA for > training purposes but only until January 31, 2010. You can't do either in > an E-AB. If you use your E-LSA for training student pilots, the plane > will require 100 hour inspections as well as annual inspections. the 100 > hour inspections must be done by a repairman with the maintenance rating > or and A&P, the inspection rating isn't good enough. > > http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=25 > > > On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:14 AM, aprazer wrote: > >> >> Another benefit that was not mentioned if you register the bird as ESLA >> is the 5 versus 40 hour fly-off time, use the bird for instruction, >> ete... > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuselage Build Times (relatively speaking) From: "PatrickW" For what it's worth, I started on my engine as soon as I finished my tail section. I know there can be long lead times involved with engine components, and I wanted to find that balance between "Allowing enough lead time" and "I know I can do this". Working on wings now. Waiting on engine... Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99533#99533 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:02 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Registgration Members, Those of you who have questions about registration, e-mail Joe Norris at jnorris@eaa.org He will answer all of your questions. Tracy Stone ZodiacXL ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:16 PM PST US From: "Lynn & Nancy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank leak in 801 List, If anyone is looking for a very well proven repair product for a leaky fuel tank, 3M makes some excellent stuff. It's their Structural Adhesive product # 08101. It's an epoxy that gets very tough, but not brittle hard, and will stand up to all the modern fuel additives. Just clean and scuff the surface, and apply. Permanent repair. I buy it through the local NAPA store. Lynn 601 XL / Corvair about 60% done Corry, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Keystone Engineering LLC To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: fuel tank leak in 801 Dave This is the second leak in the middle of the outside panel of the inner right tank. Last time I had a small puddle of AL welded in the pin hole. This year I got another pin hole right next to the patch. They put a 1/4" blob on the hole this time. It looked to me that they burnt the surrounding AL. I cleaned and roughed up the area and covered the outside with epoxy. Since it has been cold and not flyable I have not put fuel in the tanks yet. If it leaks I think I will leave the tank in place and epoxy the hole from the inside. I may put the plumbing for a angle of attach meter while I have the wing un-riveted. Bill Wilcox N801BW 280 hrs Valdez, Alaska Installing wing strut fairings, Just finished fixing second gas tank leak BILL, WHERE ARE YOUR TANKS LEAKING? DAVE IN SALEM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:39 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint on 4130 steel > I would sandblast the steel first, thats if you got > access to a sandblaster unit, but if you don't just > clean the best way you can and get rid of the oil > and grease. Two part epoxy is very good for > protecting the steel.....do not archive --- txpilot wrote: > > > I'm almost ready to rivet my cabin frame and > LG/strut pickups on my 701. Before doing so, it > would probably be best to paint the parts. Can I > just use good ol' Krylon for this, or should it be > done professionally? > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99473#99473 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:53 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: FAA registration - 8150-88 or 8150-88A The only down side to E-LSA is that you have to take the 16 hour repairman course to get the repairman certificate to enable you to sign off the annuals. You don't need this course to get the repairman certificate for E-AB. E-LSA is probably the best way to go. If I had fully understood the rule at the time, I would probably registered mine as E-LSA. On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Gordon wrote: > > So, is there a down side if you register a 701 as E-LSA? If I > understand what's been said properly, if I register my plane as E- > LSA and it were properly equipped it could, for instance, be flown > IFR by a properly rated pilot, it could be used for LSA > instruction, it could be maintained by someone other than the > builder (with a repairman's certificate) who has taken the LSA > maintenance course, it would probably have a higher resale value, etc. > I'm just wondering why I or anyone else would not go the LSA route? > Gordon > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:55 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Standard "L" Randy- Sort of like the money you save buying a $2000 welder for a half-dozen welds. My neighbor has an aluminum siding brake (He's a contractor) and that's the reason I asked in the first place. No matter. If I'm really careful, I won't need more than I have left anyway. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy L. Thwing" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Standard "L" > Hey Bill: > I used the term "house siding brake" because it will also bend "skinny" > steel flashing etc. Attached is a pic of most of the brake with a piece > of > "L" leaning against it. I paid $500.00 for the brake used so I could bend > "Free" "L" after I cut the blanks on the $500.00 stomp shear I > bought.used. > The Tapco will not bend .040, so I also bought a 8' x .062 (steel) > RoperWhitney used for $1500.00 and had to pay $150.00 for a crane truck to > move it. But the "L" angle I bend is "nearly" free! > > Regards, > > Randy L. Thwing Do not archive > > >> Randy- >> Is a "Tapco" an aluminum siding brake? >> Bill Naumuk >> >>> Here is a pic of bending standard "L" on the Tapco house siding brake, > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS flys with new Spring Gear Congratulations Jim, You took a remarkably complex job and made it look easy. Very nice job! Pleased to hear you're back in the air. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive PHFD400@aol.com wrote: > Well, I'm back in the air with my new Spring Gear on my 601HDS. After > I had the left main gear tube plate weld failure, I replaced my > landing gear with the Grove Spring gear. I can report that it works > great and I see no airspeed changes between the old factory gear and > the new spring gear. I had wheel pants on the old gear, and did > not reinstall them and I see no airspeed changes. > > If interested, you can check out our EAA web site for photos along > with a pdf document on how I did the spring gear conversion: > http://eaa1211.org/olson.html > > > Jim Olson > Murphy, NC > CH601HDS N56BJ 297 hours > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:17 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: vg's Gday Bob, I just discovered your unanswered email buried in the long list - sorry...... No, Hans hasn't tried 40* because he doesn't like even 30*. Control becomes heavy and vague and lots of adverse yaw with very little useable decrease in touchdown speed. But 15* is really good so he's modifying his flap control to only use 15*..... Tailwinds always, JG ----- Original Message ----- From: NYTerminat To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: vg's John, Your buddy with the 701, has he considered using 40 degrees of flaps? Apparently this is what Zenith used to allow the 701 to use before they changed to 30 degrees. It would be interesting to see what the stall speed does at 40 degrees. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S do not archive In a message dated 12/14/06 21:44:56 Eastern Standard Time, vgstol@bigpond.net.au writes: Two : the picture was snapped at an instant in the flare where full AOA had not yet been achieved and there is more to come. Hey, good analysis of the photo John. I don't know if that was the maximum aoa acheivable, but I note that the elevator is well up. Now this is an idle power flare, and we've had problems with lack of elevator authority in this condition - with a trickle of power sending an airstream over the tail, the aoa can be increased considerably. With the darn delay in these low end digital still cameras I'm lucky to get any of the action at all - usually just get the tail going out of the picture! I know about holding the button halfway so that focus is already set, so then the delay is only 0.2sec, but the button is so sensitive that I often just get the prop coming into the frame...... I want to get a camera that can shoot a whole sequence in rapid fire, then go thro them frame at a time - that would be really interesting to analyse. I try not to tell people how to run their business BUT if I wanted to sell to this tough crowd I'd have more pictures and several clips on YouTube, maybe a couple 701's (or Savannah's) side by side, one with slats the other with VG's doing a drag race T.O. Many folks are visual learners, SOME are from Missouri. :) Yeh, I'd just love to do that! These take-offs that I can get now with the Savannah with VGs are incredible - I'd really like to show them off. Need to get a new video camera. My old Hi-8 can't seem to focus it's eyes properly any more these days - a problem with many of us at this stage of life..... I also want to do a bunch of tuft testing with remote video - flying close enough with another aircraft is just too risky for my liking, especially at stall speeds.... I'll start another thread seeking advice on video cameras for such use. And, yeh, I'm as much a sceptic as anyone, but I am open to new developements so long as they are backed by experience. Now back to techincal facts. I haven't done real outside aoa measurements, but i did mount an inclinometer in the cabin to do comparisons slats/no slats, flying level at different speeds. The results from that are really consistent and interesting when plotted up on graph paper - wish I knew how to present that graph on this forum. But to summarize: Knots. Slats w/o slats 15*flaps 30 14 15 12 35 12 13 9 40 9.5 10 7 45 6.5 7.5 4 50 5 5.5 2 55 4 4 60 3.5 3 65 2 2 70 2 1 75 1 0 80 0 -1 If you plot these out they are so consistent that you would think they were fudged - it's unusual in flight testing to get such consistency! So, at the low end it needs 1* more aoa without slats and at the high end 1* less without slats, and the cross-over point is 55kts, which incidentally is also the best rate of climb speed..... With 15* flaps, the aoa was the same with slats or no slats, right thro the range!! Yeh, this is just getting really interesting now, with good technical inquiries and suggestions. I sure as hell don't know everything, and really looking forward to the analysis of others to expand all of our knowledge. I'm an experimenter thro and thro, and NOT a careless risk-taker, but eager to push the envelope to see what can be achieved. JG ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:07 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? precisely. When you look at the Zenith canopy from any angle all you see is a continuous male curve limited by the combination of membrane tension and the shape of the opening it was blown through. Look at the front view of the dragonfly canopy or the RV6/7/9/11 canopy and you will see the differences I described. For me it is worth it as I sit a little taller than some. I really prefer the dragonfly canopy but it is too short and too low to do the job on the XL. Craig Payne wrote: Ah, I didn't know the difference. So a blown canopy is basically a soap bubble where you don't have much control over the curve? And in a blown canopy the curve is basically constant while you are looking for a more squat profile? -- Craig Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Get your own web address. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:20 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy for 601XL? Hey Dave; I will post what I learn. The big issue is the planview form of the fuselage upper longerons. worst comes to worst, I build a 1/6 or 1/4 size of each upper fuse and see if the shape can be managed. I will still use the canopy hinge locations like the XL and would use the roll over structure bulkhead and fixed rear transparency like the tip up. do not archive VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote: Let me know what you find out about this. I, too, am interested in a different shaped canopy...." to get the reduction in useless height in the center and more useful volume at the sides." The RV canopy is more to my liking. Dave --------------------------------- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:50 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: vg's Sorry folks, I didn't mean to clutter the list with all that repy - I meant to send it straight to Bob..... Slow learner on this computer stuff...... Do not archive. JG ----- Original Message ----- From: JG To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: vg's Gday Bob, I just discovered your unanswered email buried in the long list - sorry...... No, Hans hasn't tried 40* because he doesn't like even 30*. Control becomes heavy and vague and lots of adverse yaw with very little useable decrease in touchdown speed. But 15* is really good so he's modifying his flap control to only use 15*..... Tailwinds always, JG ----- Original Message ----- From: NYTerminat To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: vg's John, Your buddy with the 701, has he considered using 40 degrees of flaps? Apparently this is what Zenith used to allow the 701 to use before they changed to 30 degrees. It would be interesting to see what the stall speed does at 40 degrees. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S do not archive In a message dated 12/14/06 21:44:56 Eastern Standard Time, vgstol@bigpond.net.au writes: Two : the picture was snapped at an instant in the flare where full AOA had not yet been achieved and there is more to come. Hey, good analysis of the photo John. I don't know if that was the maximum aoa acheivable, but I note that the elevator is well up. Now this is an idle power flare, and we've had problems with lack of elevator authority in this condition - with a trickle of power sending an airstream over the tail, the aoa can be increased considerably. With the darn delay in these low end digital still cameras I'm lucky to get any of the action at all - usually just get the tail going out of the picture! I know about holding the button halfway so that focus is already set, so then the delay is only 0.2sec, but the button is so sensitive that I often just get the prop coming into the frame...... I want to get a camera that can shoot a whole sequence in rapid fire, then go thro them frame at a time - that would be really interesting to analyse. I try not to tell people how to run their business BUT if I wanted to sell to this tough crowd I'd have more pictures and several clips on YouTube, maybe a couple 701's (or Savannah's) side by side, one with slats the other with VG's doing a drag race T.O. Many folks are visual learners, SOME are from Missouri. :) Yeh, I'd just love to do that! These take-offs that I can get now with the Savannah with VGs are incredible - I'd really like to show them off. Need to get a new video camera. My old Hi-8 can't seem to focus it's eyes properly any more these days - a problem with many of us at this stage of life..... I also want to do a bunch of tuft testing with remote video - flying close enough with another aircraft is just too risky for my liking, especially at stall speeds.... I'll start another thread seeking advice on video cameras for such use. And, yeh, I'm as much a sceptic as anyone, but I am open to new developements so long as they are backed by experience. Now back to techincal facts. I haven't done real outside aoa measurements, but i did mount an inclinometer in the cabin to do comparisons slats/no slats, flying level at different speeds. The results from that are really consistent and interesting when plotted up on graph paper - wish I knew how to present that graph on this forum. But to summarize: Knots. Slats w/o slats 15*flaps 30 14 15 12 35 12 13 9 40 9.5 10 7 45 6.5 7.5 4 50 5 5.5 2 55 4 4 60 3.5 3 65 2 2 70 2 1 75 1 0 80 0 -1 If you plot these out they are so consistent that you would think they were fudged - it's unusual in flight testing to get such consistency! So, at the low end it needs 1* more aoa without slats and at the high end 1* less without slats, and the cross-over point is 55kts, which incidentally is also the best rate of climb speed..... With 15* flaps, the aoa was the same with slats or no slats, right thro the range!! Yeh, this is just getting really interesting now, with good technical inquiries and suggestions. I sure as hell don't know everything, and really looking forward to the analysis of others to expand all of our knowledge. I'm an experimenter thro and thro, and NOT a careless risk-taker, but eager to push the envelope to see what can be achieved. JG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:11 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Zenith-List: flight attitude of XL?? Would anyone care to comment on the normal flight pitch attitude of a box-stock XL (Corvair powered)? My observations of in-flight and fly-by videos would suggest that they tend to operate with the nose high and the tail low in normal cruise. Does anyone know if this is actually the case or is it an illusion? Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:31 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Registration E-LSA or E-AB Got a reply from Timm Bogenhagen at EAA re; my stupid question about a repairman's cert for E-LSA. Answer is you can only get it if take the 16 hr course. E-AB remain the same. Bob from Pace ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Sensenich composite ground adj. prop From: "AZFlyer" Has anybody with a 3300 flying a 601XL tried the new Sensenich comp. prop. VS the standard wood Sensenich that comes with the FWF pkg.? Any results you can discuss? Speed, noise, etc.? Appreciate the feedback... Thanks in advance, Mike -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99572#99572 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:25 PM PST US From: "Lynn & Nancy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? List, For what it's worth, when I was at the Zenith factory for a 601 test drive, I discussed the stick options with Roger. He suggested I start with the "Y" stick. If I thought there was any chance I would want to change to dual sticks if the future, then drill the four required 3/16" holes in the spar carry-through while building the plane. The logic is that it's much easier to drill those holes then. Because of the tilt of the spar relative to the cabin floor, the lower holes are especially difficult (but not impossible) to drill after assembly. Lynn 601 XL / Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: "secatur" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:11 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? > > I LUUUV Posting something that attracts a lot of divergent opinions!!!! GO4IT u guys!LOL > > I CUT IT OFF!!!! and I LUV IT!!!(but I saved it just in case!!! LOL) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99412#99412 > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ? From: "David X" zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > Dave go to www.homebuilthelp.com and pick up the panel DVD. It will show you all considerations taken into account on building your panel with a center stick. If you go center stick, it flies comfortably, but definately rearrange your panel for left handed fiddling. Otherwise I hate it. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99582#99582 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.