---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/16/07: 66 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:54 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Trainnut01@aol.com) 2. 04:32 AM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (ashontz) 3. 05:23 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Trainnut01@aol.com) 4. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts full of water (n801bh@netzero.com) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts full of water (Dave Ruddiman) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: Taking delivery of 701 () 7. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (n801bh@netzero.com) 8. 06:39 AM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (ashontz) 9. 06:42 AM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (ashontz) 10. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts full of water (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Trainnut01@AOL.COM) 12. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Michael Valentine) 13. 07:28 AM - Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (n85ae) 14. 07:28 AM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (ashontz) 15. 08:42 AM - Waterborne Polyurethane (n85ae) 16. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (Jim Hoak) 17. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Bryan Martin) 18. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 09:16 AM - CH801 Documentation Project (n85ae) 20. 09:27 AM - Construction log (aprazer) 21. 09:35 AM - Re: Construction log (n85ae) 22. 09:39 AM - Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (Tom Lutz) 23. 09:52 AM - Re: Construction log (L. Kilburg) 24. 09:55 AM - Re: Construction log (Ron Culver) 25. 10:13 AM - XL Speeds (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 26. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Construction log () 27. 10:16 AM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (Tim Juhl) 28. 10:21 AM - Re: Construction log (Tim Juhl) 29. 10:22 AM - Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (lwinger) 30. 10:24 AM - Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (n85ae) 31. 10:27 AM - Re: Construction log (Terry Phillips) 32. 10:30 AM - Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (n85ae) 33. 10:34 AM - Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (Stanley Challgren) 34. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (Tom Lutz) 35. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (David Downey) 36. 11:48 AM - Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (n85ae) 37. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (Johns optonline account) 38. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) (Johns optonline account) 39. 12:06 PM - Matronics 801 wiki page (Jim Norton) 40. 12:58 PM - Paint sprayer ? (Aaron Gustafson) 41. 12:58 PM - Re: Matronics 801 wiki page (Tom Lutz) 42. 01:16 PM - Re: Construction log (Dave Ruddiman) 43. 01:23 PM - Re: Paint sprayer ? (John Bolding) 44. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Jury struts full of water (n801bh@netzero.com) 45. 01:48 PM - Re: Paint sprayer ? (LarryMcFarland) 46. 01:54 PM - Re: Paint sprayer ? (n85ae) 47. 02:33 PM - Re: Construction log (Jaybannist@cs.com) 48. 02:53 PM - Re: CH801 Documentation Project (ZodieRocket) 49. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Jury struts full of water (Dave Ruddiman) 50. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (Bill Naumuk) 51. 03:50 PM - Water in jury struts (George Swinford) 52. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (Gary Boothe) 53. 04:09 PM - Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles (ashontz) 54. 04:19 PM - Re: CH801 Documentation Project (NYTerminat@aol.com) 55. 04:20 PM - Re: Paint sprayer ? (Aaron Gustafson) 56. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (n801bh@netzero.com) 57. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (R.P.) 58. 05:44 PM - Re: Paint sprayer ? (Aaron Gustafson) 59. 05:48 PM - Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (rickpitcher) 60. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (nyterminat@aol.com) 61. 06:58 PM - LRI gauge (Big Gee) 62. 07:05 PM - Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (n85ae) 63. 07:31 PM - Re: xxx Re: Paint sprayer ? (John Bolding) 64. 07:55 PM - Re: Water in jury struts (ashontz) 65. 08:04 PM - Re: Construction log (Ron Lendon) 66. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: Water in jury struts (George Swinford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:20 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles Andy I'm building from component kits and I ordered the 15 gallon tanks with the wings. NR4 is not moved during assembly in my kit, it is left out completely. It wasn't even included in the kit. Instructions said to cut the protruding part of the "L" for NR4 off flush with the remaining portion. They stressed that I not drill the rivets out of the spar. Also I have seen several 601 wings built with two nose ribs turned web to web and less than an inch apart. One of those I think was originally the NR4 (inboard) but the second one (outboard) is not in my kit either and there is no provision for it. It is not shown in my plans. CJ 601XL/Corvair Wings almost do not archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "ashontz" I'm build from plans. I'll probably replace NR4 with a hat. and move NR4 outboard of the new tank. That being the case, what's the width of your 15 gallon tank? That way I'll know where to move NR4 to on mine when I reposition it. 30 gallons seems like a good compromise to me. 48 seems like a bit much, plus with 48 I'm looking at 4 tanks instead of 2, which is more hassle, potential problems, and fuel management. [quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy I'm building from component kits and I ordered the 15 gallon tanks with the wings. NR4 is not moved during assembly in my kit, it is left out completely. It wasn't even included in the kit. Instructions said to cut the protruding part of the "L" for NR4 off flush with the remaining portion. They stressed that I not drill the rivets out of the spar. Also I have seen several 601 wings built with two nose ribs turned web to web and less than an inch apart. One of those I think was originally the NR4 (inboard) but the second one (outboard) is not in my kit either and there is no provision for it. It is not shown in my plans. CJ 601XL/Corvair Wings almost do not archive AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com (http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339). > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100957#100957 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:49 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles Andy The factory installed "L" for NR4 using the factory 15 gal fuel tank is at STA 1770. CJ do not archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:31 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tight on eac h end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that much water to get in through those little spots?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Tim Juhl" wrote: Are the struts steel or aluminum? If steel it might be an idea to pour some linseed oil, tubeseal or other anti-corrosion material into them an d slosh it around. Pour out the excess. Those of us who fly old airpl anes have been doing that for years. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100876#100876 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tig ht on each end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that muc h water to get in through those little spots??

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "T im Juhl" <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
--> Zeni th-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" < juhl@avci.net>

Are the struts steel or&nbs p;aluminum?  If steel it might be an& nbsp;idea to pour some linseed oil, tubese al or other anti-corrosion material into t hem and slosh it around.  Pour out&nb sp;the excess.   Those of us who  ;fly old airplanes have been doing that&nb sp;for years.

Tim

--------
DO NOT ARCHIV E
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac&nbs p;XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings




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________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:11 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water Ben, I just looked at my struts. They are welded tight on the end that goes on the wing strut, but are open on the other end where the mounting tabs are. Can there be that much condensation collecting inside? Maybe I'll just pour them full of epoxy primer and let it run out before mounting. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tight on each end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that much water to get in through those little spots?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Tim Juhl" wrote: Are the struts steel or aluminum? If steel it might be an idea to pour some linseed oil, tubeseal or other anti-corrosion material into them and slosh it around. Pour out the excess. Those of us who fly old airplanes have been doing that for years. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100876#100876 <======================== - The Zenith-Lbsp;the many List utilities such as the --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ========================s p; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n======================= =============== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:16 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taking delivery of 701 Great Wall of China..... smaller blocks but a lot more of 'em. Dred ---- Dave Ruddiman wrote: > I used to build Pyramids that way. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JOHN STARN > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taking delivery of 701 > > > Can't take it any more......Get it off the trailer and onto the drive way. Take the 4' pieces of pipe ( 4 pieces 1" pipe works good) lift the box up & slide them under about 2'/3' apart. 3 go under & one is at the very front. Push until the back pipe rolls out, Pick it up & place it under front & push again. It helps if you put them in line with each other. You say ya got legs under the box....put 2X4's under the sides & nail to the legs, put the pipes under the legs. Have moved 10 ton compressors with this method. Bigger pipe & heavier than 2X4's. Up hill...rent a chain "come-a-long" from U-haul. KABONG Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Yup, there were/are several mistakes in the manual. On a few ocasions wh en I called Zenith Nick did listen to my thoughts and he did change the online manuals the very next day. Zenith has the printed booklets alread y done up so my guess is when they are ready for reprinting they will ma ke corrections then. Was I a little annoyed when I stumbled on some of t he mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and chil dren could build an 801. !!!! As for the flaperon issue, it has been a few years since I built mine an d I haven't gone to the manual to look at the pics in question. I do rem ember there are other inverted pics though that had me confused for a mi nute.Of the whole plane the only thing on it that had/still has me conce rned is that very splice, If it breaks during a full flap approach you a re in deep s@#h. I even went so far as to silkscreen my airspeed indicat or to show VFE at 70 mph, not 80. Remember, the FAA says building an exp erimental is for educational purposes, I is pretty smart now and I love my toy.. Jeff, have you spoken to Nick or Roger about this issue?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: Ben - So did you ever notice any documentation issues that Zenith has? If so d id you get them to update the manuals, so that when I build mine I don't have the same problems? :) How bout that flaperon issue I mentioned? Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100892#100892 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Yup, there were/are several mistakes in the manual. On a few oc asions when I called Zenith Nick did listen to my thoughts and he did ch ange the online manuals the very next day. Zenith has the printed bookle ts already done up so my guess is when they are ready for reprinting the y will make corrections then. Was I a little annoyed when I stumbled on some of the mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and children could build an 801. !!!! <G>

As for the flaperon issue, it has been a few years since I built mine and I haven't gone to the manual to look at the pics in question. I do remember there are other inverted pics though that had me confused for a minute.Of the whole plane the only thing on it that had/still has me concerned is that very splice, If it breaks during a full flap approa ch you are in deep s@#h. I even went so far as to silkscreen my airspeed indicator to show VFE at 70 mph, not 80. Re member, the FAA says building an experimental is for educational purpose s, I is pretty smart now and I love my toy..  Jeff, have you spoken to Nick or Roger about this issue?? 

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n85ae"&n bsp;<n85ae@yahoo.com>

Ben -

So did yo u ever notice any documentation issues tha t Zenith has? If so did
you get th em to update the manuals, so that whe n I build mine I don't
have the sa me problems? :)

How bout that flaperon&n bsp;issue I mentioned? 

Regards,
Jeff



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________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "ashontz" Cool thanks. I think I'll make the 15 gallon tank instead. I'll move that L and install a new hat stiffener where it was originally located. They didn't move any other ribs did they. I guess that NR doesn't line up with any of the rear ribs. What's the actually length of your tank? I would assume that no other ribs moved so it should be just a matter of subtracting NR station at 1770 minus the next inboard NR for a rough length of the tank, no? The reason I'm asking for the length of the tank (or at leat the distance between the ribs it sit inside of) is because in case there were any of changes of rib locations, at least I'll no the length of the tank for it to be 15 gallons vs 12 gallons, assuming the side profile is the same, which I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. [quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy The factory installed "L" for NR4 using the factory 15 gal fuel tank is at STA 1770. CJ do not archive AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com (http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339). > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100979#100979 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "ashontz" This is with the 12 gallon tanks? I think I may go with the 15 gallon tanks seeing as how I'm still putting the wing together. I belive an IFR plane needs 4.5 hours plus reserve, so 30 gallons should meet that requirement. bryanmmartin wrote: > I have over four hours endurance with reserve now. After four hours, > it's time to land and take a short break to streach my legs anyway. > With 48 gallons, I wouldn't even be able to carry a passenger as my > plane is a bit on the heavy side. Of course you could always keep > them empty until you need the range. I believe the standard kits now > come with 16 gallon tanks for a total of 32. That's probably the way > I'd go if I were building it now. > > > > > > > > Food for thought. > > > > How do you like the 2 12 gallon tanks? I kicked around the idea of > > the dual tanks in each wing for a total of 4 tanks. > > > > > > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100981#100981 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:38 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water Upon further thought, My struts might be wide open on each end with no w ay of trapping water. I am headed to the airport right now to look. Sta y tuned. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Upon further thought, My struts might be wide open on each end with no way of trapping water. I am headed to the airport right now to l ook.  Stay tuned. <G>

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
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________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:51 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles Andy I'll measure those tanks when I get back to the house this afternoon and contact you off list with the "Rest of the story" on my fuel tank saga. CJ do not archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:52 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles I bought my wing kit from another builder up the road and Zenith just removed it from my complete kit. His wing kit was prepared in 2003 and had 4 nose ribs inboard of the tank. His spar was built for two 12-gallon tanks in each wing. I contacted Zenith about modifying it for one 15-gallon tank. The end result was cutting the flange of the nose ribs blocking the longer tank (for me that was NR 5 & 6) and drilling out the hat stiffener at 1770. I then installed two new nose ribs where the hat stiffener had been. Those nose ribs do not line up with any rear ribs. Michael in NH On 3/16/07, ashontz wrote: > > > Cool thanks. I think I'll make the 15 gallon tank instead. I'll move that > L and install a new hat stiffener where it was originally located. They > didn't move any other ribs did they. I guess that NR doesn't line up with > any of the rear ribs. > > What's the actually length of your tank? I would assume that no other ribs > moved so it should be just a matter of subtracting NR station at 1770 minus > the next inboard NR for a rough length of the tank, no? The reason I'm > asking for the length of the tank (or at leat the distance between the ribs > it sit inside of) is because in case there were any of changes of rib > locations, at least I'll no the length of the tank for it to be 15 gallons > vs 12 gallons, assuming the side profile is the same, which I don't see any > reason why it wouldn't be. > > [quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy > The factory installed "L" for NR4 using the factory 15 gal fuel tank is > at STA 1770. > CJ > > do not archive > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com (http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339). > > > [b] > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation From: "n85ae" Hi Ben - My experience is that the tech support is great, so long as it is confined to simple questions. They largely cannot answer engineering type questions, which makes me wonder - If there is a single degreed engineer other than Chris in the place? I suspect that they don't. I have not received so much as an aknowledgement to anything that could be construed as criticism, constructive or not. Which makes me feel like there is a certain arrogance in parts of the company. The front office, and the parts and sales people are wonderfull. First rate and get stuff out ASAP. No complaints about them. About the manuals, I can accept that the they're not great. It's the part about NOT fixing something that would be relatively simple, after as many as eight years (per the revision dates). Which is then followed with a sort of attitude. That's the part which makes one go from being annoyed to pissed off. Oh, by the way - I LOVE MY KITFOX - But I think Skystar Aircraft Corp sucked, and I'll spit on that corporation's grave every chance I get. :) Just have to keep it clear what's what. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101000#101000 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "ashontz" Ok, so leave the the four inside ribs (wing walk) and then the new tank 15 gallon tank extends from NR4 to the new NR5 which is where the hat is currently. [quote="Michael Valentine"]I bought my wing kit from another builder up the road and Zenith just removed it from my complete kit. His wing kit was prepared in 2003 and had 4 nose ribs inboard of the tank. His spar was built for two 12-gallon tanks in each wing. I contacted Zenith about modifying it for one 15-gallon tank. The end result was cutting the flange of the nose ribs blocking the longer tank (for me that was NR 5 & 6) and drilling out the hat stiffener at 1770. I then installed two new nose ribs where the hat stiffener had been. Those nose ribs do not line up with any rear ribs. Michael in NH On 3/16/07, ashontz wrote: > > Cool thanks. I think I'll make the 15 gallon tank instead. I'll move that L and install a new hat stiffener where it was originally located. They didn't move any other ribs did they. I guess that NR doesn't line up with any of the rear ribs. > > What's the actually length of your tank? I would assume that no other ribs moved so it should be just a matter of subtracting NR station at 1770 minus the next inboard NR for a rough length of the tank, no? The reason I'm asking for the length of the tank (or at leat the distance between the ribs it sit inside of) is because in case there were any of changes of rib locations, at least I'll no the length of the tank for it to be 15 gallons vs 12 gallons, assuming the side profile is the same, which I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. > > [quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy > The factory installed "L" for NR4 using the factory 15 gal fuel tank is at STA 1770. > CJ > > do not archive > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com (http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339 (http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339)). > > > > [b] > > > > > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz (http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz) > > > > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101001#101001 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Waterborne Polyurethane From: "n85ae" Have been looking into waterborne polyurethane. AFS seems a good system, but do they really make their own paint? I don't think so, but might be wrong. In any case they're selling for $250+ per gallon which is very expensive. I know at least one of the big name fabric covering paint systems, is dupont, which is repackaged and mixed with flex additives. So I'd not be surprised to find that AFS is from somebody else as well. Which led me to searching around, and SystemThree (T-88 adhesive, etc) makes a waterborne marine polyurethane, and epoxy system. Which is $130/gallon they will custom mix colors for $170/gallon http://www.systemthree.com The similarities between the product's, and several other similar products which I know for sure are systemthree, makes me suspect that AFS is really just repackaging, and reselling systemthree in custom colors. Anyway, I went the solvent based polyurethane route with the last plane, and now the wife has forbidden me from doing so again, so I'm looking at more friendly systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101017#101017 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:18 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Hey listers, Caleb at the Mexico Missouri Plant is a Aeronautical Engineering Graduate. I asked him and at least that's what he told me. When I built my 601HD ( 1995/1996 period ) I found about five errors with the old hand drawn Drawings ( we didn't have a Construction Manual except a few pages of general items ). The next revision of the drawings had all the corrections made to the benefit of those who built later! They did include my inputs! Our "Picture Book" in those days was about six or eight black and white general pictures. However, helping a friend on a 701 recently, we have found a few discrepancies in the drawings. On the Zenith site I see Revisions show up from time to time. Let's hope all the true errors get corrected. The biggest problem my friend has though ( this is his third homebuilt ) is not looking far enough ahead and making sure you look every where in the Drawings, Manual and Pictures before starting on something. That's not the fault of the Kit Supplier. do not archive Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation > > Hi Ben - > > My experience is that the tech support is great, so long as it is confined > to simple questions. They largely cannot answer engineering type > questions, which makes me wonder - If there is a single degreed > engineer other than Chris in the place? I suspect that they don't. > > I have not received so much as an aknowledgement to anything that > could be construed as criticism, constructive or not. Which makes me > feel like there is a certain arrogance in parts of the company. > > The front office, and the parts and sales people are wonderfull. First > rate > and get stuff out ASAP. No complaints about them. > > About the manuals, I can accept that the they're not great. It's the part > about NOT fixing something that would be relatively simple, after as many > as eight years (per the revision dates). Which is then followed with a > sort > of attitude. That's the part which makes one go from being annoyed to > pissed off. > > Oh, by the way - I LOVE MY KITFOX - But I think Skystar Aircraft Corp > sucked, and I'll spit on that corporation's grave every chance I get. :) > Just have to keep it clear what's what. > > Regards, > Jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101000#101000 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:29 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles I usually average about 5 gallons per hour in cruise. On Mar 16, 2007, at 9:41 AM, ashontz wrote: > This is with the 12 gallon tanks? I think I may go with the 15 > gallon tanks seeing as how I'm still putting the wing together. I > belive an IFR plane needs 4.5 hours plus reserve, so 30 gallons > should meet that requirement. > > > bryanmmartin wrote: >> I have over four hours endurance with reserve now. After four hours, >> it's time to land and take a short break to streach my legs anyway. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:44 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Hi Jeff, I mostly agree with your comments about the folks at Zenith, but I can offer a little more information. Firstly, Chris Heintz is the father of the principal guys at Zenith. His sons Sebastian and Nicholas run that company. I doubt that Chris ever had anything significant to do with ZAC. He did do the original airplane designs, but he is retired now. I have spoken to two different engineers at ZAC. Both are competent aeronautical engineers, but both sound quite young. They are able to discuss engineering issues, but they are not seasoned "Senior" designers like Chris. I suggest you ask to speak to an engineer when you call with questions that need engineering judgement to answer. I agree with you completely about Shirley when it comes to order handling. She is just wonderful. Also, Nick and Roger seem competent to deal with general questions and they are both very cooperative. I also feel the parts from Zenith are very high quality and always are made from the proper materials with satisfactory dimensions. (Some pilot holes didn't meet this standard, but I am willing to overlook that problem -- I just learned to order replacement parts without the pilot holes.) Personally, I have no use for Sebastian but that could be a personal matter. He is supposed to be the CEO there, and since I have also filled that role in a small company my expectations are higher than other's might be. One issue some kit builders may not know about is the language difficulties apparent with all the Heintz boys. English is not their first language, and it shows in the language used in both the photo guide and the prints. I don't think this is an attitude problem but rather a personal language skill issue. I hope these comments help clear up the situation. I am not best pleased with the whole issue of document quality, but I am resigned to living with things as they are. I feel it is up to me to complete my plane with all the help I can get and problems I must overcome. I also feel the problems are balanced by the sheer volume of documents that come with a ZAC kit. This is a lot more than my first airplane kit included. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage At 06:27 AM 3/16/2007, you wrote: > >Hi Ben - > >My experience is that the tech support is great, so long as it is confined >to simple questions. They largely cannot answer engineering type >questions, which makes me wonder - If there is a single degreed >engineer other than Chris in the place? I suspect that they don't. > >I have not received so much as an aknowledgement to anything that >could be construed as criticism, constructive or not. Which makes me >feel like there is a certain arrogance in parts of the company. > >The front office, and the parts and sales people are wonderfull. First rate >and get stuff out ASAP. No complaints about them. > >About the manuals, I can accept that the they're not great. It's the part >about NOT fixing something that would be relatively simple, after as many >as eight years (per the revision dates). Which is then followed with a sort >of attitude. That's the part which makes one go from being annoyed to >pissed off. > >Oh, by the way - I LOVE MY KITFOX - But I think Skystar Aircraft Corp >sucked, and I'll spit on that corporation's grave every chance I get. :) >Just have to keep it clear what's what. > >Regards, >Jeff > > - ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH801 Documentation Project From: "n85ae" Any CH801 builders out there interested in participating in writing a "CH801 Builder's manual by Builder's" which can be put online somewhere? I can provide the website. I'm done with my wings, tail feathers, and flaperons, and could put in some time to write a couple sections. Probably just need some volunteer's to write, and to QA each other's work. Feedback? Thoughts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101025#101025 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Construction log From: "aprazer" Greetings: I have been looking for an aircraft construction log -- found two; My Kit Airplane and Kitlog Pro. MKA needs Microsoft Access (which I don't have) and Kitlog Pro only takes three pictures per entry date and it is available for any one on the internet to view. I have not kept very good records and need to reconstruct. Does anyone have any recommendations? Mack 601XL in final stages -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101026#101026 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Construction log From: "n85ae" I use MS Excel and just keep it in a spreadsheet. I use all digital pics, and print them about 4 per page on el-cheapo photo paper. For what it's worth, my experience is that the more the DAR costs, the less attention he's gonna pay to these kind of details. My last one did not even open the log just looked that it existed, and spent a little bit of time on the plane. :) On the other hand, a real FAA guy working for a government salary might spend the whole day looking at it ... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101031#101031 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:57 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Zenith-List: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) Has anyone considered starting a Wiki for each type of kit? A central collection of all of your knowledge, photos, and experiences would be absolutely invaluable to the new builder, and would provide excellent means of identifying discrepancies and/or errors in the factory plans. For those of you unfamiliar with what a Wiki is... It is essentially a book written by a collective group of users, usually with little or no moderation. Anyone can edit anything and add their own input, or correct others' mistakes. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki. A wiki can also be restricted to a subset of users (only registered Zenithair builders for example), to avoid spam. Some of the better Wiki's provide Microsoft Word-style editors for simplicity (no HTML or coding knowledge necessary). Anyone else on board? -Tom ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:12 AM PST US From: "L. Kilburg" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Construction log Don't know anything about it but this one was mentioned in Kit Planes recently. http://www.expercraft.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aprazer > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:27 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Construction log > > > Greetings: > I have been looking for an aircraft construction log -- found > two; My Kit Airplane and Kitlog Pro. MKA needs Microsoft > Access (which I don't have) and Kitlog Pro only takes three > pictures per entry date and it is available for any one on > the internet to view. I have not kept very good records and > need to reconstruct. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Mack > 601XL in final stages > > -------- > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho -- 11:27 AM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:52 AM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction log I have both and like both for different reasons.If you do use My Kit Airplane their is a version of an Access reader which comes on the installation disk which works fine. One exception if you have Office 2007 installed even after advice from the author and Microsoft tech services I was unable to get the 2007 uninstalled no matter what we tried and I ended up unable to use the provided MKA on this computer.My final solution was to put it on a seperate computer which did not have Office 2007 ever installed on it. It then worked fine and I find it very good.. as they say your mileage may vary but it suits my needs.. George Race MyKitAirplane@MrRace.Com who wrote the program would I am sure be happy to answer any questions .. In order to be candid I was one of many beta testers and have no interest or gain from any sales.. Ron Culver ----- Original Message ----- From: "aprazer" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Construction log > > Greetings: > I have been looking for an aircraft construction log -- found two; My Kit > Airplane and Kitlog Pro. MKA needs Microsoft Access (which I don't have) > and > Kitlog Pro only takes three pictures per entry date and it is available > for any one on the internet to view. I have not kept very good records and > need to reconstruct. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Mack > 601XL in final stages > > -------- > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101026#101026 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:20 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: XL Speeds Dear Thread, I need some speed info on your flying XLs to compare with mine for the POH. I need the best glide speed with and without flaps ( Vg & Vx ?) Also need best climb speed (Vc & Vy ?) My plane is a standard XL with Jab 3300 , FWF kit Sensenich prop and old style wheel pants. I may have my "V"s screwed up ? Thanks in advance and best regards, Bill of Georgia ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Construction log Not necessarily. I had two FAA guys do the inspection on my first plane and honestly getting all the paperwork done and returned was the most trying part. As for the onsite inspection, they asked if I had a builder's log and I showed them the CD and the printout which was fifty-some-odd pages of MS Word document in a 10 pitch font. They looked at it very briefly and asked if I had photos to back up the log so I showed them the two CDs of photos and opened one up on a laptop. They said very nice, looked at a few and then got around to looking at the plane and wrapping up the paperwork. It took about an hour altogether. My point is if you have the documentation they aren't determined to pour through it looking for gotchas. They mostly want to know that you have done your homework. My 2 cents worth, Dred ---- n85ae wrote: > > I use MS Excel and just keep it in a spreadsheet. I use all digital pics, > and print them about 4 per page on el-cheapo photo paper. > > For what it's worth, my experience is that the more the DAR costs, the > less attention he's gonna pay to these kind of details. My last one did > not even open the log just looked that it existed, and spent a little bit > of time on the plane. :) > > On the other hand, a real FAA guy working for a government salary > might spend the whole day looking at it ... ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "Tim Juhl" The 15 gallon tank measures 1270 mm end to end. The "L" for the repositioned NR #4 is moved 260 mm outboard of where the "L" for the 12 gallon tanks was installed. There is no rear rib behind it. The factory built spars do not extend the aluminum bar that runs on the front of the spar top and bottom out to the new position of NR #4 - there is a hat stiffener between the old and new positions of NR#4 for a total of three behind the tank. There are 7 nose ribs in all. I've attached a pix taken of the bottom of the wing looking out from the wing root. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101045#101045 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/noseribs_134.jpg ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Construction log From: "Tim Juhl" I did mine in html. Using Dreamweaver, I created columns where I could make my daily entries and then made hyperlinks to the pictures I took of the work done. It can be viewed in any web browser and burned to a CD or DVD for storage. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101047#101047 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) From: "lwinger" You may already know this, but Matronics has set up a Wiki for our use, and it is already divided by aircraft type (i.e. 601UL, 601HD, 601HDS, 601XL, 701, 801, 640, 200). The URL is http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Zenith -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Control surfaces complete/riveting center spar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101048#101048 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) From: "n85ae" That's a great idea, in fact matronics.com has a feature for doing just that. The plus is that not only would the docs be there, but they'd be open to all for update. Not just sitting on somebody's private website. Any idea how to get started (yes, I'll read the howto doc as soon as I'm done typing this)? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101049#101049 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:51 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction log Mack I am using Kitlog Pro, and find it to be a reasonably decent app. I have had some questions and have gotten prompt responses from their tech support. I encountered a few really annoying quirks (mostly losing typed input because I failed to click the right button). I documented them and emailed their tech support, asking that they try to improve the app. To my surprise, Matt Dralle of Matronics responded, writing that he had bought the Kitlog Pro business, and that they would try to incorporate my suggestions into the next release (2.1). I later sent in couple more suggestions, and Matt responded back asking if he could have my database file to test the new version. I sent it and he replied that my suggestions had been implemented and tested. I was impressed. I agree that the 3 photo limitation is a bit bothersome. However, your database is only available for internet access if you choose to upload it to the Kitlog's site. Many builders have done so--I find Ron Lendon's to be a particularly useful resource. But it is purely optional, and I'm sure many have not uploaded their databases. I have not done so yet--I'm waiting until I get a bit more done. But if any other builder can gain something useful from my log, then that's all to the good. I didn't want to spend $50 for the application, but we should document our work, and, compared to the cost of the project, $50 is in the noise. BTW, are you still poh-oh-unemployed on the farm in Idaho, or are you just from Idaho? Terry At 09:26 AM 3/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings: >I have been looking for an aircraft construction log -- found two; My Kit >Airplane and Kitlog Pro. MKA needs Microsoft Access (which I don't have) and >Kitlog Pro only takes three pictures per entry date and it is available >for any one on the internet to view. I have not kept very good records and >need to reconstruct. Does anyone have any recommendations? >Mack >601XL in final stages Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) From: "n85ae" Ok, I started an initial page on the Matronics wiki for the CH801 it is: http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/CH_801 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101055#101055 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:29 AM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) Tom: Sign me up. I could provide comments from my building log that highlight errors (in my judgment) in the plans and assembly guides. Stan On Mar 16, 2007, at 10:39 AM, Tom Lutz wrote: > Has anyone considered starting a Wiki for each type of kit? A > central collection of all of your knowledge, photos, and > experiences would be absolutely invaluable to the new builder, and > would provide excellent means of identifying discrepancies and/or > errors in the factory plans. > > For those of you unfamiliar with what a Wiki is... > It is essentially a book written by a collective group of users, > usually with little or no moderation. Anyone can edit anything and > add their own input, or correct others' mistakes. See http:// > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki. A wiki can also be restricted to a > subset of users (only registered Zenithair builders for example), > to avoid spam. > > Some of the better Wiki's provide Microsoft Word-style editors for > simplicity (no HTML or coding knowledge necessary). > > Anyone else on board? > > -Tom > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:00 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) I couldn't find any info about Wikis on matronics.com, but I know there are a good number of free/cheap Wiki providers. Ideally, we'd want something with the MS Word-style editor, image support, and backup capability so we can archive once in a while. On 3/16/07, n85ae wrote: > > > That's a great idea, in fact matronics.com has a feature for doing just > that. The plus is that not only would the docs be there, but they'd be > open to all for update. Not just sitting on somebody's private website. > > Any idea how to get started (yes, I'll read the howto doc as soon as > I'm done typing this)? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101049#101049 > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:01 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) I get the matronics list postings but when I tried to go to the wiki I could not remember if I had a user or not. Does anyone remember the initiation into the list to address the question on how to log in? Do I need to set up a(nother) user to access the wiki? You may already know this, but Matronics has set up a Wiki for our use, and it is already divided by aircraft type (i.e. 601UL, 601HD, 601HDS, 601XL, 701, 801, 640, 200). The URL is http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Zenith -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Control surfaces complete/riveting center spar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101048#101048 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) From: "n85ae" Go to this page, fill in the blanks, and click add user. You will be able to start editing right away. http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Userlogin Somebody know how to create a new page? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101067#101067 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:20 AM PST US From: Johns optonline account Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) Hello I am building an 801 as well and I have a site that may be of interest I run a moodle wiki webserver which will allow us to create online wiki and course content with thorough explainations of how to do things. Goto http://69.18.183.235/moodle/ Take a look towards the bottom you will see a course I am developing for private pilots ground school. I could setup an 801 course and give all of us builders access to it to create content this is a very powerful tool which includes video / images / podcasts etc let me know if this may interest fellow builders. Yours Truly John Maselli 801 builder on Long Island -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Lutz Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:33 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) I couldn't find any info about Wikis on matronics.com, but I know there are a good number of free/cheap Wiki providers. Ideally, we'd want something with the MS Word-style editor, image support, and backup capability so we can archive once in a while. On 3/16/07, n85ae wrote: That's a great idea, in fact matronics.com has a feature for doing just that. The plus is that not only would the docs be there, but they'd be open to all for update. Not just sitting on somebody's private website. Any idea how to get started (yes, I'll read the howto doc as soon as I'm done typing this)? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101049#101049 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:36 AM PST US From: Johns optonline account Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) Hello I am building an 801 as well and I have a site that may be of interest I run a moodle wiki webserver which will allow us to create online wiki and course content with thorough explainations of how to do things. Goto http://69.18.183.235/moodle/ Take a look towards the bottom you will see a course I am developing for private pilots ground school. I could setup an 801 course and give all of us builders access to it to create content this is a very powerful tool which includes video / images / podcasts etc let me know if this may interest fellow builders. Yours Truly John Maselli 801 builder on Long Island -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:33 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Let's start a Wiki (was: Zenith's annoying documentation) I get the matronics list postings but when I tried to go to the wiki I could not remember if I had a user or not. Does anyone remember the initiation into the list to address the question on how to log in? Do I need to set up a(nother) user to access the wiki? lwinger wrote: You may already know this, but Matronics has set up a Wiki for our use, and it is already divided by aircraft type (i.e. 601UL, 601HD, 601HDS, 601XL, 701, 801, 640, 200). The URL is http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Zenith -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL #6493 from scratch Control surfaces complete/riveting center spar Read this topic online ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:04 PM PST US From: Jim Norton Subject: Zenith-List: Matronics 801 wiki page I just tried the matronics wiki page and had trouble getting into it. I ended up logging on with my Yahoo ID and NO password entered. Of course when I got into I was on a edit page that had nothing ent ered. I assume the wiki was just opened by Matronics and no entried had been made. Of course I may have entered computer purgatory or even the black hole of cyberspace. Anyway I wasn't overwhelmed with info..... ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:41 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? I remember reading a post some time back about a cheap Harbor Freight spray gun being not a bad tool. Does anyone have a model or part number with their experience to give me? I'm headed for the store next week. My Devillbis has gave up the ghost. 40+ years old! Aaron Gustafson ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:46 PM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matronics 801 wiki page The wiki is working fine but there are no entries for the 701 so far, so I created a template main page. Feel free to edit and add to it. As previously mentioned, go to http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Userlogin and create a new login / password. Once you log in, you can go here: http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Zenith You can edit any page you visit. Pages are created by adding links to them. For example, I can write the following on a page about the 701: The 701 features leading edge [[slats]]. Putting double brackets around a word makes that word a link. If there is no page associated with that link, the Wiki will allow you to create a new one when you click on it. Give it a shot...play around! There's also an edit button on every page. Give a shout out if you still need help. Tom On 3/16/07, Jim Norton wrote: > > > I just tried the matronics wiki page and had trouble getting into it. I > ended up logging on with my Yahoo ID and NO password entered. Of course > when I got into I was on a edit page that had nothing ent ered. I > assume the wiki was just opened by Matronics and no entried had been > made. Of course I may have entered computer purgatory or even the black > hole of cyberspace. Anyway I wasn't overwhelmed with info..... > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:36 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction log I think just about anyway you want to document your building will be OK. You are just supposed to prove that you built the plane. I have KitLog Pro and it works fine for me. Since procrastination is one of my best traits, my log only gets entered into when I feel like I really have to show something for the record. I think some of the guys have spent as long on their websites than I have in building my plane so far. That's great as far as I am concerned because it can be very helpful no matter which model you are building. Good Luck Dave - 801 builder in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: "aprazer" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Construction log > > Greetings: > I have been looking for an aircraft construction log -- found two; My Kit > Airplane and Kitlog Pro. MKA needs Microsoft Access (which I don't have) > and > Kitlog Pro only takes three pictures per entry date and it is available > for any one on the internet to view. I have not kept very good records and > need to reconstruct. Does anyone have any recommendations? > Mack > 601XL in final stages > > -------- > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101026#101026 > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:46 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? Aaron, If you want to send it to me I'll see if it can be resurrected, I worked for DeVilbiss for 20 yrs, still got a BUNCH of parts left over. LOW&SLOW John Bolding I remember reading a post some time back about a cheap Harbor Freight spray gun being not a bad tool. Does anyone have a model or part number with their experience to give me? I'm headed for the store next week. My Devillbis has gave up the ghost. 40+ years old! Aaron Gustafson ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:32 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I just got back from the airport and my main struts are open on each end , no way for water to collect there. The jury struts are welded on the b ottom and open on top. Your idea of pouring them full of something is no t a bad idea. I am guessing that Bills plane lives outside and therefore driving rain must somehow get into the jury struts. Mine has never spen t the night outside so that must be why mine are dry. If we do drill a h ole where is the best place so as to not create a stress riser? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Dave Ruddiman" wrote: Ben, I just looked at my struts. They are welded tight on the end that goes on the wing strut, but are open on the other end where the mounting tabs are. Can there be that much condensation collecting inside? Maybe I'll just pour them full of epoxy primer and let it run out before moun ting. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero. com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:06 AMSu bject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tight on eac h end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that much water to get in through those little spots?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Tim Juhl" wrote: Are the struts steel or aluminum? If steel it might be an idea to pour some linseed oil, tubeseal or other anti-corrosion material into them an d slosh it around. Pour out the excess. Those of us who fly old airpl anes have been doing that for years. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100876#100876 <======================== - The Zenith-Lbsp;the many List utilities such as the ==== ==================sp; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n========== === href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =====================

I just got back from the airport and my main struts are open on each end, no way for water to collect there. The jury struts are welded on the bottom and open on top. Your idea of pouring them full of someth ing is not a bad idea. I am guessing that Bills plane lives outside and therefore driving rain must somehow get into the jury struts. Mine has n ever spent the night outside so that must be why mine are dry. If w e do drill a hole where is the best place so as to not create a stress r iser?

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcas t.net> wrote:

Ben,
 
I just looked at my struts.  They are welded tight on the end that goes on the wing strut, but are open on the other end where the mounting tabs are. Can there be that much conde nsation collecting inside?  Maybe I'll just pour them full of epoxy primer and let it run out before mounting.
 
 
Dave in Salem
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jur y struts full of water

I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tight on each end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that much wate r to get in through those little spots??

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
-->  Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl"  <juhl@avci.net>

Are the struts steel&n bsp;or aluminum?  If steel it might b e an idea to pour some linseed oil,&n bsp;tubeseal or other anti-corrosion material i nto them and slosh it around.  Pour&n bsp;out the excess.   Those of us&nbs p;who fly old airplanes have been doing&nb sp;that for years.

Tim

--------
DO NOT&n bsp;ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on win gs




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________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:35 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? Aaron, The gun I used to prime my 601 was a Harbor Freight #43430 HVLP conversion gun. It was a good one for prime, but the DeVilbiss #GFG670 gun even at $275 is a best (if expensive) choice, with handle-mounted regulator and 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 tips from Spray Gun World. www.spraygunworld.com/products/DeVilbiss/index.htm. This gun is not a HVLP, but a derivative which meets those requirements and provides an excellent finish. Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com Aaron Gustafson wrote: > > > I remember reading a post some time back about a cheap Harbor Freight > spray gun being not a bad tool. Does anyone have a model or part > number with their experience to give me? I'm headed for the store next > week. My Devillbis has gave up the ghost. 40+ years old! > > Aaron Gustafson ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Paint sprayer ? From: "n85ae" Good friend of mine was recently shooting his Kitfox with his Axis Citation spray system, and switched over to the harborfreight $50 gravity feed gun claims it is a far better paint gun. He's till using the turbine for his mask. Based on that I bought one, it looks pretty decent. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101096#101096 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:34 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction log I have kept my time all of my professional career, so keeping a construction log is no big deal to me. I use QuattroPro spreadsheets for both time and cost. I log my time every day. I sort of see it as a way of paying myself for my *good* work. I keep separate columns for work on the airplane and other, essential work, such as building the work table. I also keep a column for each category that has a running total and a running total of both. The same applies to my cost spreadsheet. I will print out the time log at intervals that will fit on a 8 1/2 x 11 page. I don't complicate things by trying to integrate photos. These are kept in a digital photo file and each one is dated. The photos I print periodically (using AutoCAD), two to the page (24lb. bond), front & back, and labeled with the date and what is represented. Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:34 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH801 Documentation Project You write it and I'll install it on HYPERLINK "http://www.ch801.com/"www.ch801.com All the room you can desire. I'm not about to bash anything in the manuals, yes there may be errors. But if you built a 601Hd about 8 years ago all you got were 5 pages of text to build the whole plane, hand written plans full of Tilde=92s that stated about that measurement. The photo manuals are a huge difference from what builders used to get. Updates to the manuals are slow in coming due to the fact that Zenith does not build a new demonstrator every year. The 801 they fly is the original demonstrator as is the 601 and the 701. So if you spot an error in the manual then take photo's and write down exactly what you have seen and send it in! Maybe you will see changes in the photo manuals faster, these guys care and genuinely want to help and have a great experience for everyone. Truth be known when they didn't have photo manuals and only FAX support, builders didn't have as many problems that they couldn't figure out. Why? Because in writing the fax out to Chris they mulled over the plans longer and looked ahead and the light bulb went off, which is why Chris ALWAYS stated to read the PLANS. Now a good 75 % of the questions answered and taking up the time of the support crew are simply because the builder didn't look at the plans and understand what they are actually trying to accomplish. IF you wait for ZAC to build a new demonstrator just so they can take a few photo's and correct some errors in procedure, then yes it will take a very long time. IF you notice an error or even if you think you came up with an easier way of doing things then send it in!!! don't just open a bitch session on the Matronics list, update the manuals for ZAC so that the next builder may benefit from a lesson learned. Now the 601XL builders manuals have changed completely from the original release, why? Because they are making a lot of them as LSA, the 801's and 701's have not see so many if any changes in the builders manuals, WHY ? because they are still flying the original aircraft. My God look at the HOBBS meter on the 701 and 801. These will be the highest timed Demonstrators at any show !! I agree there is always room for improvement, so help out with solutions. I would hate to see a company pass along added costs of building another plane just to update pictures. cdngoose www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / HYPERLINK "http://www.osprey2.com/"www.Osprey2.com / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch801.com/"www.ch801.com do not archive -----Original Message----- Any CH801 builders out there interested in participating in writing a "CH801 Builder's manual by Builder's" which can be put online somewhere? I can provide the website. I'm done with my wings, tail feathers, and flaperons, and could put in some time to write a couple sections. -- 3/16/2007 12:12 PM ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:24 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I'm wondering, how does water get in when the jury struts are mounted on the plane? Mine won't be on for awhile, but it seems like rain would have to blow pretty hard to get in the top, and there would have to be a lot of condensation to be able to pour water out. I'm not sure where to drill a drain hole or if one is really needed. Has anyone else had this problem, or is this an isolated event? Lots of questions. Does anyone have better answers? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I just got back from the airport and my main struts are open on each end, no way for water to collect there. The jury struts are welded on the bottom and open on top. Your idea of pouring them full of something is not a bad idea. I am guessing that Bills plane lives outside and therefore driving rain must somehow get into the jury struts. Mine has never spent the night outside so that must be why mine are dry. If we do drill a hole where is the best place so as to not create a stress riser? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Dave Ruddiman" wrote: Ben, I just looked at my struts. They are welded tight on the end that goes on the wing strut, but are open on the other end where the mounting tabs are. Can there be that much condensation collecting inside? Maybe I'll just pour them full of epoxy primer and let it run out before mounting. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jury struts full of water I guess the bigger question is, if the struts are welded up tight on each end, as mine were from the factory and the only holes in them are from the jury strut mounting area. Is it possible for that much water to get in through those little spots?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Tim Juhl" wrote: Are the struts steel or aluminum? If steel it might be an idea to pour some linseed oil, tubeseal or other anti-corrosion material into them and slosh it around. Pour out the excess. Those of us who fly old airplanes have been doing that for years. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100876#100876 <======================== - The Zenith-Lbsp;the many List utilities such as the ======================sp; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n============= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List tronics.com ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Ben- Better watch out about the "Women" reference. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Yup, there were/are several mistakes in the manual. On a few ocasions when I called Zenith Nick did listen to my thoughts and he did change the online manuals the very next day. Zenith has the printed booklets already done up so my guess is when they are ready for reprinting they will make corrections then. Was I a little annoyed when I stumbled on some of the mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and children could build an 801. !!!! As for the flaperon issue, it has been a few years since I built mine and I haven't gone to the manual to look at the pics in question. I do remember there are other inverted pics though that had me confused for a minute.Of the whole plane the only thing on it that had/still has me concerned is that very splice, If it breaks during a full flap approach you are in deep s@#h. I even went so far as to silkscreen my airspeed indicator to show VFE at 70 mph, not 80. Remember, the FAA says building an experimental is for educational purposes, I is pretty smart now and I love my toy.. Jeff, have you spoken to Nick or Roger about this issue?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: Ben - So did you ever notice any documentation issues that Zenith has? If so did you get them to update the manuals, so that when I build mine I don't have the same problems? :) How bout that flaperon issue I mentioned? Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100892#100892 ========================s p; - NEW p;content now also available via the Web&n======================= =============== ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:07 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Water in jury struts Water in the 701 jury struts is likely from condensation, rather than being rain-related. Years ago Ercoupe control pushrods suffered from condensation-related corrosion and failure, and these pushrods are completely inside the airplane. The pushrods could "breathe" thru their rod ends, and the resulting condensation was then trapped inside the pushrods. I had personal experience of such corrosion. George do not archive ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:26 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation That's right! Better change that to ".Cavemen." Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:36 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Ben- Better watch out about the "Women" reference. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation a little annoyed when I stumbled on some of the mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and children could build an 801. !!!! do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: Ben - So did you ever notice any documentation issues that Zenith has? If so did you get them to update the manuals, so that when I build mine I don't have the same problems? :) How bout that flaperon issue I mentioned? Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100892#100892 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel tank baffles From: "ashontz" Thanks for the info. That's all I needed. Tim Juhl wrote: > The 15 gallon tank measures 1270 mm end to end. The "L" for the repositioned NR #4 is moved 260 mm outboard of where the "L" for the 12 gallon tanks was installed. There is no rear rib behind it. The factory built spars do not extend the aluminum bar that runs on the front of the spar top and bottom out to the new position of NR #4 - there is a hat stiffener between the old and new positions of NR#4 for a total of three behind the tank. There are 7 nose ribs in all. > > I've attached a pix taken of the bottom of the wing looking out from the wing root. > > Tim -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101114#101114 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:48 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH801 Documentation Project Amen and Amen In a message dated 3/16/2007 5:55:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, zodierocket@hsfx.ca writes: Now a good 75 % of the questions answered and taking up the time of the support crew are simply because the builder didn't look at the plans and understand what they are actually trying to accomplish. IF you wait for ZAC to build a new demonstrator just so they can take a few photo's and correct some errors in procedure, then yes it will take a very long time. do not archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:45 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? I'd like to stay with suction or gravity fed. I don't want the expense of HVLP. Has anyone used the cheaper guns from HF? do not archive Aaron > The gun I used to prime my 601 was a Harbor Freight #43430 HVLP conversion > gun. It was a good one for prime, but the > DeVilbiss #GFG670 gun even at $275 is a best (if expensive) choice, with > handle-mounted regulator and > 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 tips from Spray Gun World. > www.spraygunworld.com/products/DeVilbiss/index.htm. > > This gun is not a HVLP, but a derivative which meets those requirements > and provides an excellent finish. ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:30 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Bens a big boy..... The means a big grin, as in it was a joke. If th ere are any ladies and children that take offense then tough stuff. Kin da like the black folks having the BET = Black Entertainment Televisio n and no one complains. If I started the White Entertainment Television network it would take all of 2 seconds till Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpto n started screaming racism. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Bill Naumuk" wrote: Ben- Better watch out about the "Women" reference. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: z enith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:30 AMSubject: Re : Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation Yup, there were/are several mistakes in the manual. On a few ocasions wh en I called Zenith Nick did listen to my thoughts and he did change the online manuals the very next day. Zenith has the printed booklets alread y done up so my guess is when they are ready for reprinting they will ma ke corrections then. Was I a little annoyed when I stumbled on some of t he mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and chil dren could build an 801. !!!! As for the flaperon issue, it has been a few years since I built mine an d I haven't gone to the manual to look at the pics in question. I do rem ember there are other inverted pics though that had me confused for a mi nute.Of the whole plane the only thing on it that had/still has me conce rned is that very splice, If it breaks during a full flap approach you a re in deep s@#h. I even went so far as to silkscreen my airspeed indicat or to show VFE at 70 mph, not 80. Remember, the FAA says building an exp erimental is for educational purposes, I is pretty smart now and I love my toy.. Jeff, have you spoken to Nick or Roger about this issue?? do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: Ben - So did you ever notice any documentation issues that Zenith has? If so d id you get them to update the manuals, so that when I build mine I don't have the same problems? :) How bout that flaperon issue I mentioned? Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100892#100892 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =====================

Bens a big boy..... The <G> means a big grin, as in it wa s a joke. If there are any ladies and children that take offense then to ugh stuff.  Kinda like the black folks having the BET = Black Ent ertainment Television and no one complains. If I started the White Enter tainment Television network it would take all of 2 seconds till Jes se Jackson and Al Sharpton started screaming racism. 

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "B ill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:

Ben-
    Better watch out abo ut the "Women" reference.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zen ith's Annoying Documentation

Yup, there were/are several mistakes in the manual. On a few ocasions when I called Zenith Nick did listen to my thoughts and he did change t he online manuals the very next day. Zenith has the printed booklets alr eady done up so my guess is when they are ready for reprinting they will make corrections then. Was I a little annoyed when I stumbled on some o f the mistakes, yup,,, But, if this building thing was easy, woman and c hildren could build an 801. !!!! <G>

As for the flaperon issue, it has been a few years since I built mine and I haven't gone to the manual to look at the pics in question. I do remember there are other inverted pics though that had me confused for a minute.Of the whole plane the only thing on it that had/still has me concerned is that very splice, If it breaks during a full flap approa ch you are in deep s@#h. I even went so far as to silkscreen my airspeed indicator to show VFE at 70 mph, not 80. Re member, the FAA says building an experimental is for educational purpose s, I is pretty smart now and I love my toy..  Jeff, have you spoken to Nick or Roger about this issue?? 

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n85ae"&n bsp;<n85ae@yahoo.com>

Ben -

So did yo u ever notice any documentation issues tha t Zenith has? If so did
you get th em to update the manuals, so that whe n I build mine I don't
have the sa me problems? :)

How bout that flaperon&n bsp;issue I mentioned? 

Regards,
Jeff



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________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:36 PM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation > > NYTerminate - > > The image you posted is correct, but that's not the one I was talking > about. > > Look at page 12 of flaperon doc 2 of 3. Look at the first image, splice > plates up (it's wrong). > > Look at the second image with the blocks under it, and the note > below saying the blocks are under the inboard section. OK you said it > looked right. Ok imagine flipping that part to rightside up. OK - Now you > will realize you have a inboard flaperon deflected 20mm up - OOPS. > AND the splice plate is not in agreement with the first image. Look > at that page again you will see what I mean. > > They forgot to ship my box of clairvoyance with the kit, so I'm slightly > handicapped, so maybe I think that might be the problem. :) > > Regards > Jeff Jeff, I looked at the page you mentioned above and still don't see the discrepancy. Aren't they showing the assembly lying upside down on a flat table with the inborad section spaced raised 20mm from the table top? Then, when the assembly is flipped right-side-up, the inboard section is deflected 20mm down? just trying to get a grasp on where the discreancy lies, Rick ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:56 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? John Send me your address off line. Aaron do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bolding To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? Aaron, If you want to send it to me I'll see if it can be resurrected, I worked for DeVilbiss for 20 yrs, still got a BUNCH of parts left over. LOW&SLOW John Bolding I remember reading a post some time back about a cheap Harbor Freight spray gun being not a bad tool. Does anyone have a model or part number with their experience to give me? I'm headed for the store next week. My Devillbis has gave up the ghost. 40+ years old! Aaron Gustafson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 3/16/2007 12:12 PM ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation From: "rickpitcher" n85ae wrote: > NYTerminate - > > The image you posted is correct, but that's not the one I was talking about. > > Look at page 12 of flaperon doc 2 of 3. Look at the first image, splice > plates up (it's wrong). > > Look at the second image with the blocks under it, and the note > below saying the blocks are under the inboard section. OK you said it > looked right. Ok imagine flipping that part to rightside up. OK - Now you > will realize you have a inboard flaperon deflected 20mm up - OOPS. > AND the splice plate is not in agreement with the first image. Look > at that page again you will see what I mean. > > They forgot to ship my box of clairvoyance with the kit, so I'm slightly > handicapped, so maybe I think that might be the problem. :) > > Regards > Jeff (Reposted for Matronics web-based list. For some reason my email posts all seem to come through as blank pages:) Jeff, I looked at the page you mentioned above and still don't see the discrepancy. Aren't they showing the assembly lying upside down on a flat table with the inboard section spaced raised 20mm from the table top? Then, when the assembly is flipped right-side-up, the inboard section is deflected 20mm down? just trying to get a grasp on where the discreancy lies, Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101133#101133 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation From: nyterminat@aol.com Thank you, I thought I was going nuts.Bob do not archive -----Original Message----- From: zodie@adelphia.net Sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation > > NYTerminate - > > The image you posted is correct, but that's not the one I was talking > about. > > Look at page 12 of flaperon doc 2 of 3. Look at the first image, splice > plates up (it's wrong). > > Look at the second image with the blocks under it, and the note > below saying the blocks are under the inboard section. OK you said it > looked right. Ok imagine flipping that part to rightside up. OK - Now you > will realize you have a inboard flaperon deflected 20mm up - OOPS. > AND the splice plate is not in agreement with the first image. Look > at that page again you will see what I mean. > > They forgot to ship my box of clairvoyance with the kit, so I'm slightly > handicapped, so maybe I think that might be the problem. :) > > Regards > Jeff Jeff, I looked at the page you mentioned above and still don't see the discrepancy. Aren't they showing the assembly lying upside down on a flat table with the inborad section spaced raised 20mm from the table top? Then, when the assembly is flipped right-side-up, the inboard section is deflected 20mm down? just trying to get a grasp on where the discreancy lies, Rick ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:44 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Zenith-List: LRI gauge Folks, I just ordered my LRI gauge for $11.95, they still have 715 left.(see link below). http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 07031616355052&item=21-1623&catname= I wished I'd had known about it when I had my 701, I just couldn't get use to that slow landing speed. Thanks for the info, Fritz 601XL, Corvair, 90/90 scratch builder --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation From: "n85ae" I'm done with this thread. I think the Wiki idea is great, and provides a means for everybody to get there 2 cents into the docs. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101146#101146 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:30 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? jnbolding1"at"teleshare"dot"net do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Gustafson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? John Send me your address off line. Aaron do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bolding To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint sprayer ? Aaron, If you want to send it to me I'll see if it can be resurrected, I worked for DeVilbiss for 20 yrs, still got a BUNCH of parts left over. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Water in jury struts From: "ashontz" I remember reading in an old Experimenter mag that in the old days of tub and fabric airplanes they'd slosh linseed oil in the tube and then weld them together with no openings at all. But that's a welded structure. You're talking about bolts I think. You'd think with a bolted structure you'd have to have some sort of plug at the end that goes in the struct that the bolt goes through and keeps the tub from collapsing when bolted. Logically, wouldn't the drain hole be somehow in that plug, through the centerlne of the plug perhaps? [quote="grs-pms(at)comcast.net"]Water in the 701 jury struts is likely from condensation, rather than being rain-related. Years ago Ercoupe control pushrods suffered from condensation-related corrosion and failure, and these pushrods are completely inside the airplane. The pushrods could "breathe" thru their rod ends, and the resulting condensation was then trapped inside the pushrods. I had personal experience of such corrosion. George do not archive > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101157#101157 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Construction log From: "Ron Lendon" One way I get by with the 3 pic limit is by making more entries and spreading the time across them. It keeps good records and tracking expenses is real easy. The reason for posting it to the net is to share the experience. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101158#101158 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:31 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Water in jury struts My point was that the moisture in the air is enough to result in condensation being trapped in closed members. It doesn't take exposure to the rain, snow etc. Beyond that, the Ercoupe experience doesn't relate to the jury strut problem. The Ercoupe pushrods had a threaded self-aligning monoball fitting on each end. The threaded portion of the fitting was bored out. Moist air could make it's way past the ball and thru the bored out passage into the tube. The solution was to fill the bored out hole with grease and drive a wooden plug into the end to keep it sealed. Doesn't apply to the jury strut case, I think. Being a 601 builder, I don't have a handle on the exact configuration of the 701 jury struts, so I can't suggest a fix. George Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Water in jury struts > > I remember reading in an old Experimenter mag that in the old days of tub and fabric airplanes they'd slosh linseed oil in the tube and then weld them together with no openings at all. But that's a welded structure. You're talking about bolts I think. You'd think with a bolted structure you'd have to have some sort of plug at the end that goes in the struct that the bolt goes through and keeps the tub from collapsing when bolted. Logically, wouldn't the drain hole be somehow in that plug, through the centerlne of the plug perhaps? > > [quote="grs-pms(at)comcast.net"]Water in the 701 jury struts is likely from condensation, rather than being rain-related. Years ago Ercoupe control pushrods suffered from condensation-related corrosion and failure, and these pushrods are completely inside the airplane. The pushrods could "breathe" thru their rod ends, and the resulting condensation was then trapped inside the pushrods. I had personal experience of such corrosion. > > George > > do not archive > > > [b] > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101157#101157 > > > -- 12:12 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.