---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/19/07: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: xxx Re: Re: Fuel tank selector (John Bolding) 2. 06:10 AM - Re: Wa'hoppen? (Gig Giacona) 3. 06:17 AM - Re: Crosswind landings (Elizabeth & Martin Bima) 4. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Crosswind landings (Bryan Martin) 5. 06:42 AM - Tony Graziano (Aaron Gustafson) 6. 07:42 AM - Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation (n85ae) 7. 08:01 AM - test - please delete (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 8. 09:30 AM - Jury struts full of water (Keystone Engineering LLC) 9. 09:49 AM - Cortec Safety Concerns (Tom Lutz) 10. 09:53 AM - Clamp Types (Tom Lutz) 11. 09:54 AM - Re: Cortec Safety Concerns (n85ae) 12. 09:57 AM - Re: Cortec Safety Concerns (n85ae) 13. 10:15 AM - Re: Clamp Types (Jaybannist@cs.com) 14. 10:44 AM - pitot tube / LRI probe location (Big Gee) 15. 12:48 PM - Re: Cortec Safety Concerns (David Downey) 16. 12:48 PM - Re: Cortec Safety Concerns (David Downey) 17. 01:34 PM - Pitot/Static Routing (Jaybannist@cs.com) 18. 02:11 PM - Re: Clamp Types (Gig Giacona) 19. 02:17 PM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing () 20. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Clamp Types (JG) 21. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Clamp Types (JG) 22. 04:07 PM - OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (AZFlyer) 23. 04:53 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (Bryan Martin) 24. 05:02 PM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (Juan Vega) 25. 05:11 PM - Re: Clamp Types (David Downey) 26. 05:12 PM - Center Arm Rest (Bill Naumuk) 27. 05:50 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (LarryMcFarland) 28. 06:00 PM - Re: Dzus Fastners, Idea Theft (Ron Lendon) 29. 06:05 PM - Re: Center Arm Rest (LarryMcFarland) 30. 06:11 PM - Zenith Rudder Design (rbjjr) 31. 06:26 PM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (Bryan Martin) 32. 06:26 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (ZodieRocket) 33. 06:49 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (ZodieRocket) 34. 08:00 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (Edward Moody II) 35. 08:14 PM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (Jeff) 36. 08:23 PM - LRI positioning (mike macleod) 37. 09:31 PM - Re:LRI gauge (Dave and Pam Fisher) 38. 09:50 PM - Construction Logs made easy! (Joe) 39. 10:19 PM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (NYTerminat@aol.com) 40. 11:38 PM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:08 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank selector David, Glasair ended up going that direction, have them (one way gates) in mine. I ended up with an 8 gal header (one hr reserve, plenty long enough to find a parking spot if I lose electrical) and run the pump from the wing tanks to the header full time. Gravity to the carb from the header. , Header overflows back to the wing tanks when full. If I'm asleep and not paying attention, a light goes on when the wing runs dry, shut off the pump and find an airport. Been told Lancair uses the same system but have no buddies that have them so can't make a positive statement there. LOW&SLOW John ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank selector since I have been considering building the tanks as ProSealed riveted structure, I had been wondering if baffle panels with the swinging one way valves like in all the bigger twins and Citations from Cessna use would be any advantage, They are not really fuel tight but they have a grossly differential leak rate across the baffle plates so the the fuel is coaxed to stay inboard at all times as it is depleted ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wa'hoppen? From: "Gig Giacona" Check you SPAM folder either the one on your computer or at your provider. They same happened to me a few years back. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101594#101594 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:36 AM PST US From: Elizabeth & Martin Bima Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Crosswind landings for 701 builders and flyers, When landing in crosswinds that exceed 20 knots, land across the width of the runway. Martin Bima STOL-Freak ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:53 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Crosswind landings Pilot: Man, that's a short runway! Copilot: But look how wide it is! > > > > for 701 builders and flyers, > > When landing in crosswinds that exceed 20 knots, land across the > width of the runway. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:25 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: Tony Graziano Tony Graziano Please contact me off list. I have a simple request of you. Aaron Gustafson agustafson@chartermi.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith's Annoying Documentation From: "n85ae" rickpitcher wrote: > > n85ae wrote: > > I'm done with this thread. I think the Wiki idea is great, and provides a > > means for everybody to get there 2 cents into the docs. > > > > Jeff > > > Jeff, don't quit now when we're getting so close to the answer. > Is the manual really wrong, or did you simply misinterpret the photos? > > thanks, > Rick Yes the manual is a mess, but the this thread is dipping way too much into negativity (I admit I started it), so I just want to move on to something else. Plus this is a thread that's a lot like the movie Braveheart with one side screaming "Zenith is great!" and us on the other side yelling, "the manuals stink!". I for one am too lazy to get up from the computer to go grab up my axe, so I'm moving along. :) Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101607#101607 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:01 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: test - please delete test Do Not Archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:03 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: Jury struts full of water My 801 has probably spent 30 days out of the hanger over the last 3 years. Much of that in rainy weather. Thank goodness the water that came out was clear. This means I did a fairly good job of painting the inside of the tubes. One concern I have is, I do not keep the heat on in my hanger and it was 20 degrees when I found the water. The heat from drilling the hole melted enough water for it to pour out. There was at least 1" of water above bottom of the tubes. I talked to Jim Frisby about this 801 and he said he had his spilt jury struts split from the frozen water. I don't know when he noticed them. He is off on a new adventure at this time. My recommendation stands, drill a small hole in the bottom of the jury strut to allow any water that accumulates to weep out. Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, Alaska still installing lift strut fairings. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:59 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Safety Concerns I just ordered some Cortec from Zenith. I tried to grab an MSDS sheet from Cortec (http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/products.php?showonly=HighPerfCoat), but I had to sign up for an account and am waiting approval. Can someone forward me the MSDS or a list of the safety equipment needed to use this stuff? Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:45 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Zenith-List: Clamp Types Does it matter what type of spring-loaded clamps I use? I assume Zinc alloy is better than steel for this work. Can someone please check this page ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html) and tell me what clamps, if any, to avoid? Thanks in advance, Tom ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cortec Safety Concerns From: "n85ae" Here's my notes for using Cortec. It's about as nasty as Latex house paint for smell so I don't wear anything. Regards, Jeff Thinning, thin using denatured alchohol to the consistency of 2 percent milk. Zenith uses it thick, however this is contrary to the manufacturers specification, and is a mistake. Cortec Spec- VpCI-373 is applied at an extremely thin thickness of 0.5-1.0 mil (12.5-25 microns) DFT. How thin? I mix the stuff from Zenith about 25-50% with alchohol to get the product to where it works well. Thinning with water alone does not work very well, as the product does not adhere as well. 50/50 alchohol/distilled water works ok. Parts pre-cleaning. Small parts I hand wash with hot water, dishwashing detergent, and scotchbrite pads in the basement sink. Rinse well. Cortec can be applied without having to dry the parts. Winter - I use windhield washer fluid (it is simply methanol and water at a cheap price), and scotchbrite pad's. Scrub the parts clean. Wipe off the residue with a washer fluid wetted rag. Final wipe with denatured alhohol. Summer - Hot soapy water, and scotchbrite pads outdoors, then rinse with the hose. Wipe with denatured alchohol. Application - I apply the product via disposable paint brushes. It will tun a hazy blue as it dries. Then will turn clear. Cleanup - Removes with MEK quite easily when dried. Notes - Gasoline, and avgas will dissolve it. So it must be topcoated if exposed to fuel. It will soften if it is continuously wet, so exposed areas should be topcoated as well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101637#101637 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cortec Safety Concerns From: "n85ae" Do a google search on "cortec 373" you'll find the official docs online without the account. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101640#101640 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:56 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Clamp Types Tom, I have found that most spring-loaded clamps are only good for situations where they are expected to be about as effective as the clamping you would get between your thumb and forefinger. This is not a put-down. There are plenty of situations where they are useful and handy. The same goes for those plastic, squeeze ratchet types. Because of the relatively low pressures and short-term use, I don't think the type of metal is critical. If you need really tight, secure clamping, use vice-grip types or screw types. Jay in Dallas do not archive "Tom Lutz" wrote: >Does it matter what type of spring-loaded clamps I use? I assume Zinc alloy >is better than steel for this work. Can someone please check this page ( >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html) and tell me what >clamps, if any, to avoid? > >Thanks in advance, >Tom > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:41 AM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Zenith-List: pitot tube / LRI probe location I would like to pass on where I located my pitot tube and where I will be locating my LRI probe, also the reason why. My pitot tube is built as per design on page 6-W-9. I did not locate it at rib # 5 as per plans. Instead, I located it forward of the access cover shown on 6-W-9 -3 in the left wing. It is located 150mm aft of spar cap riviet line as per plans. Instead of 4 rivets to mount it, I used four, 3/16 bolts ( I know, I added weight). The reason for this is, I can reach in through the access hole to install and remove the pitot tube when removing and installling the wings. I am afraid that with the pitot tube riveted on, sooner or later it would get bent during wing removal. Right now I plan on installing my LRI probe, forward of the access panel on the right wing, using the same mounting procedures. The small hole for it to exit the wing, will be just a little aft of the wing spar cap and close to RR # 7. According to my math, this should place it well within the limits of 15-30% of the cord of the wing. Fritz XL-- 90%done/90% to go--- Corvair -- scratch builder --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:57 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec Safety Concerns 2nd MSDS Tom Lutz wrote: I just ordered some Cortec from Zenith. I tried to grab an MSDS sheet from Cortec (http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/products.php?showonly=HighPerfCoat ), but I had to sign up for an account and am waiting approval. Can someone forward me the MSDS or a list of the safety equipment needed to use this stuff? Thanks, Tom Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:57 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec Safety Concerns This is what I found in our system. I do not know if it is the same VCI-373 that they shipped me... I also am awaiting approval for access to the MSDS's at the Cortec site. do not archive Tom Lutz wrote: I just ordered some Cortec from Zenith. I tried to grab an MSDS sheet from Cortec (http://www.cortecvci.com/Products/products.php?showonly=HighPerfCoat ), but I had to sign up for an account and am waiting approval. Can someone forward me the MSDS or a list of the safety equipment needed to use this stuff? Thanks, Tom Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:11 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing Hi listers, I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a few days. I'm now back "ON". I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. Thanks in advance Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types From: "Gig Giacona" I have about 8 of these (SPRING TENSION CLAMP AT542), several quick grip bar claps from Home Depot and 4 of the clamps that are kind of like plyers but have the bolt to adjust grip. But the ones I use the most, are the little clips that have the rubber ends and they are perfect for holding a skin in place while drilling. [quote="tommylutz(at)gmail.com"]Does it matter what type of spring-loaded clamps I use? I assume Zinc alloy is better than steel for this work. Can someone please check this page (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html)) and tell me what clamps, if any, to avoid? Thanks in advance, Tom > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101701#101701 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:31 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing The only opening through the spar center section is the flanged hole in the midline. Once you install the rudder fairleads there is only a little space left to run wiring through there. I'm planning on using the space in the center console above the spar center section to route wiring and tubing up to the area forward of the instrument panel. The biggest consideration in that route is the clearance for the movement of the elevator horn and the threaded rod connecting it to the dual stick assembly. There should be adequate room to bundle the wiring and tubings that have to pass there into two bundles, one on either side inside the console. The entire top of my center console is removable with #6-32 screws and nutplates so I will wait to run the wiring after the cables are rigged to make certain that there is no interferrence. Dred ---- Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > > I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. > > Thanks in advance > Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:38 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types Good stuff Tom - I like your style. JG ----- Original Message ----- From: Gig Giacona To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types I have about 8 of these (SPRING TENSION CLAMP AT542), several quick grip bar claps from Home Depot and 4 of the clamps that are kind of like plyers but have the bolt to adjust grip. But the ones I use the most, are the little clips that have the rubber ends and they are perfect for holding a skin in place while drilling. [quote="tommylutz(at)gmail.com"]Does it matter what type of spring-loaded clamps I use? I assume Zinc alloy is better than steel for this work. Can someone please check this page (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html)) and tell me what clamps, if any, to avoid? Thanks in advance, Tom > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101701#101701 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:17 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types Sorry about that last post - clicked on the wrong name - bifocals are a pain.... Do not archive. JG ----- Original Message ----- From: Gig Giacona To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types I have about 8 of these (SPRING TENSION CLAMP AT542), several quick grip bar claps from Home Depot and 4 of the clamps that are kind of like plyers but have the bolt to adjust grip. But the ones I use the most, are the little clips that have the rubber ends and they are perfect for holding a skin in place while drilling. [quote="tommylutz(at)gmail.com"]Does it matter what type of spring-loaded clamps I use? I assume Zinc alloy is better than steel for this work. Can someone please check this page (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/clampingtools.html)) and tell me what clamps, if any, to avoid? Thanks in advance, Tom > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101701#101701 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location From: "AZFlyer" Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). Looking for input... Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101735#101735 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:31 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Someplace where the sun can't shine on it and heat from the engine can't flow over it. Maybe under the wing root? On Mar 19, 2007, at 7:03 PM, AZFlyer wrote: > Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking > fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:47 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing i amrouting them through the left side of the seat base, up to the canopy sill, then under the panel. option two was to drill two holes right of the wing root.don't like that one. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Mar 19, 2007 4:32 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing > > >Hi listers, > >I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a few days. I'm now back "ON". > >I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. > >Thanks in advance >Jay in Dallas > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:56 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Clamp Types may be the cheapest "clamps" you can buy...at the store only...and up to 5 sets per visit/coupon... Mkt Code=0075188805 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Get your own web address. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Center Arm Rest All- I was moving merrily along on the front fuse when I come to steps 7 and 8 on FF-5. "Cleco 6V12-4 to 6F16-1". No problem. "Cleco 6F16-1 to the L ANGLES". Went back and checked, no mention of installing the armrest L angles during c-section construction. No mention of their installation anywhere! Checked out Larry Mac's and Jeff Small's pictures and neither show the L angles installed at this stage of the game. Not a show-stopper, but if I have to put them in now an extra foot of height and arm length would be beneficial! Thoughts? do not archive (?) Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:12 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Hi Bryan, I placed my OAT at the outside edge of the belly angle, right side and fed it thru the forward foot channel from the side. The readings seem to match my thermometer at the hangar during run up. At least it keeps the wires out of the way. Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com Bryan Martin wrote: > > > Someplace where the sun can't shine on it and heat from the engine > can't flow over it. Maybe under the wing root? > > On Mar 19, 2007, at 7:03 PM, AZFlyer wrote: > >> Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking >> fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). > > --Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dzus Fastners, Idea Theft From: "Ron Lendon" Thanks Dave, Just wanted to make a positive posting of this resource. It has saved my bacon many times. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101775#101775 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:53 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Arm Rest Bill, I did have the angles in when the center section was complete, but it shouldn't be that difficult to do even after you've connected the tail. You might just have to stand in front of the center section to get it done, unless your floor is already in. (see link,) http://www.macsmachine.com/images/centerwing/centersection/full/wing-spars-to-center-sectio.gif Larry McFarland Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > I was moving merrily along on the front fuse when I come to steps > 7 and 8 on FF-5. > "Cleco 6V12-4 to 6F16-1". No problem. "Cleco 6F16-1 to the L > ANGLES". Went back and checked, no mention of installing the armrest L > angles during c-section construction. No mention of their installation > anywhere! Checked out Larry Mac's and Jeff Small's pictures and > neither show the L angles installed at this stage of the game. Not a > show-stopper, but if I have to put them in now an extra foot of height > and arm length would be beneficial! > Thoughts? > do not archive (?) > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuse/Corvair > Townville, Pa > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design From: "rbjjr" I am building the 701 and having fun and learning a lot. It's a design that perfectly fits my mission. Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it strikes me as really the only potential question in the overall design. I am saying this as a layman, not being a designer or engineer, however. The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder seems to place much more stress on them than if the hinges were evenly spaced from top to bottom like many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder while turning are concentrated all at one end and only on two hinges a few inches apart on a relatively large surface. Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design? Anyone considered adding a third, middle hinge to provide some additional strength? This is not meant as a criticism, just a question from someone new to homebuilding. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101778#101778 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:11 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design There's nothing wrong with concentrating the load in a small area as long as the structure is strong enough to handle it. I've never heard any occurrences of rudders on Zodiacs falling off in flight and they are very easy to check out during pre-flight. On Mar 19, 2007, at 9:11 PM, rbjjr wrote: > Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it > strikes me as really the only potential question in the overall > design. I am saying this as a layman, not being a designer or > engineer, however. > > The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder seems to place > much more stress on them than if the hinges were evenly spaced from > top to bottom like many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder > while turning are concentrated all at one end and only on two > hinges a few inches apart on a relatively large surface. > > Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design? Anyone > considered adding a third, middle hinge to provide some additional > strength? This is not meant as a criticism, just a question from > someone new to homebuilding. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:50 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Locate on last bulkhead just below Stabilizer. 6-B-12-3 Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). Looking for input... Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101735#101735 -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:20 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Another good spot I have used is the NACA duct for fresh air in the cabin. Locate on last bulkhead just below Stabilizer. 6-B-12-3 Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). Looking for input... Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101735#101735 -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:52 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location For mine, I was told that the underside of one wing, back about half of chord length would be the best place. If you go with a location on the fuselage try to keep it underneath where it will be in the shade. The bottom of the fuselage does get the exhaust stream so the wing is a better place. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: AZFlyer To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). Looking for input... Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101735#101735 -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:53 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Do not archive this either, but Piper seems to be intent on placing it up high right smack in the middle of the windshield - must be about the worst place I can think of .. Jeff D. _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location For mine, I was told that the underside of one wing, back about half of chord length would be the best place. If you go with a location on the fuselage try to keep it underneath where it will be in the shade. The bottom of the fuselage does get the exhaust stream so the wing is a better place. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: AZFlyer Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). Looking for input... Thanks, Mike do not archive -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300, Dynon Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101735#101735 http://www.matron==== ================= bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -- Date: 3/19/2007 11:49 AM ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:58 PM PST US From: mike macleod Subject: Zenith-List: LRI positioning Group: After reviewing the potential benefits of a LRI indicator and noting the comments of the list members I have decided to install an AOA probe in my right wing (the one I am currently assembling). I plan to mount the AOA probe on the inboard side of rear rib #5 (yes, inside the wing locker - should give easy access) at the same distance from the leading edge as the pitot probe on the left wing. I am going to make the probe so that it extends 10 inches below the wing. I will attach it to the rib with one 3/16 inch AN bolt until I have it calibrated at which time I will add an A5 rivet to lock it in position. My questions: a) Is there a better location for the probe? (is the probe far enough from the fuselage? would rib #7 be better?) b) Any problems attaching it directly to the rib? (as the tiedown ring is attached) or do I need a doubler? c) Is 10 inches enough given the HUGE XL wing? Thanks for your help Mike in Ontario 601XL working on wings ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:27 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: Re:LRI gauge Hi, Thanks for the explanations everyone - makes sense now!! Dave, 701, do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:49 PM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Construction Logs made easy! Hi Everyone, I have been using Microsoft Powerpoint for logging the construction time on my project. It works great, it's very easy, and if you already have Office, it doesn't cost any extra! The pages can be sent to a printer, e-mailed to my friends, and I can push a button and burn the entire project to a disk. the disk can be played on my DVD player, I can present the project on the projector at EAA meetings, etc. It's cheap, and doesn'tr require a large learning curve. The pages can be made to look alike. Text can be placed on the page in any color or type. Pages can be put in any arrangement. It's perfect for our use as builders. I would be happy to share my Powerpoint pages with anyone that wants them. Right now the file is 4 meg, so if you have DSL or cable I can send them to you by E-mail. I can also help you design your own if you want. The nice thing about Powerpoint is that even if the recipient doesn't have Offive 2003 or better, the files can be read on a Windows 98 or better computer. Joe Scheibinger 2809 Scenic Drive Oshkosh, WI 54904 Phone: 920-237-1450 E-mail: backstagelive@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:51 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction Logs made easy! Joe, I would be interested in seeing how your PowerPoint looks. Bob Spudis _NYTERMINAT@aol.com_ (mailto:NYTERMINAT@aol.com) do not archive In a message dated 3/20/2007 12:51:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, joe@kfiz.com writes: Hi Everyone, I have been using Microsoft Powerpoint for logging the construction time on my project. It works great, it's very easy, and if you already have Office, it doesn't cost any extra! The pages can be sent to a printer, e-mailed to my friends, and I can push a button and burn the entire project to a disk. the disk can be played on my DVD player, I can present the project on the projector at EAA meetings, etc. It's cheap, and doesn'tr require a large learning curve. The pages can be made to look alike. Text can be placed on the page in any color or type. Pages can be put in any arrangement. It's perfect for our use as builders. I would be happy to share my Powerpoint pages with anyone that wants them. Right now the file is 4 meg, so if you have DSL or cable I can send them to you by E-mail. I can also help you design your own if you want. The nice thing about Powerpoint is that even if the recipient doesn't have Offive 2003 or better, the files can be read on a Windows 98 or better computer. Joe Scheibinger 2809 Scenic Drive Oshkosh, WI 54904 Phone: 920-237-1450 E-mail: backstagelive@gmail.com ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:54 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Construction Logs made easy! You can download a free PowerPoint 2003 viewer from Microsoft: http://tinyurl.com/3nend There are also links at the bottom of that page to free viewers for Microsoft Word 2003, Excel 2003 and PowerPoint 2007. There was a product which compressed PowerPoint documents - it was called "Pointless" :-) -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.