Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (MacDonald Doug)
2. 05:28 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (William Dominguez)
3. 05:54 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (ZodieRocket)
4. 06:07 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design ()
5. 06:24 AM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (Tom Lutz)
6. 06:35 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (Juan Vega)
7. 07:22 AM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (caspainhower@aep.com)
8. 08:40 AM - Re: LRI positioning (japhillipsga@aol.com)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (japhillipsga@aol.com)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (japhillipsga@aol.com)
11. 09:28 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (Bryan Martin)
12. 09:48 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (Peter Chapman)
13. 10:10 AM - 912 carb sync ()
14. 11:52 AM - Re: 912 carb sync (Dirk Slabbert)
15. 12:01 PM - 912 carb sync (Zed Smith)
16. 12:30 PM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (PatrickW)
17. 01:05 PM - Re: 912 carb sync (LarryMcFarland)
18. 02:34 PM - Re: lri gauge (j. davis)
19. 03:05 PM - Re: lri gauge (Dino Bortolin)
20. 03:23 PM - Re: 912 carb sync (Klaus Truemper)
21. 03:39 PM - Re: LRI positioning (Ron Lendon)
22. 03:58 PM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (rbjjr)
23. 04:10 PM - Making an LRI probe (Ron Lalonde)
24. 04:15 PM - Re: lri gauge (j. davis)
25. 04:28 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur)
26. 04:50 PM - My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (William Dominguez)
27. 05:07 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur)
28. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Making an LRI probe (Paul Mulwitz)
29. 05:28 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (LarryMcFarland)
30. 05:30 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Juan Vega)
31. 05:33 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Tim Juhl)
32. 06:01 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur)
33. 06:02 PM - Bing Carb Jets (Tim Juhl)
34. 06:38 PM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (T. Graziano)
35. 06:55 PM - Fw: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 (Bill Naumuk)
36. 07:18 PM - Re: Center Arm Rest (Bill Naumuk)
37. 07:21 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Dave Ruddiman)
38. 07:37 PM - Instant Garage (Tom Lutz)
39. 07:51 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Craig Payne)
40. 07:54 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Ron Lendon)
41. 07:59 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Bryan Martin)
42. 08:30 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Paul Mulwitz)
43. 10:24 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (TxDave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an
aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and
the fuselage sitting on the gear.
I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation
a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout
on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed
into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge
point would add little addtional strength since it
wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on
the fuselage.
Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose
rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be
a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder
that should reduce any stresses significantly.
This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has
been around for over twenty years. I am far from an
expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of
the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a
little odd at first, it is designed that way.
According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole
plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin
in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100
mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low.
Good luck with your build. I know I am looking
forward to getting mine into the sky.
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
CH-701 Scratch Builder
working on controls
do not archive
--- rbjjr <burkeandsusan@verizon.net> wrote:
> Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith
> trademark, it strikes me as really the only
> potential question in the overall design. I am
> saying this as a layman, not being a designer or
> engineer, however.
>
> The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder
> seems to place much more stress on them than if the
> hinges were evenly spaced from top to bottom like
> many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder
> while turning are concentrated all at one end and
> only on two hinges a few inches apart on a
> relatively large surface.
>
> Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design?
> Anyone considered adding a third, middle hinge to
> provide some additional strength? This is not meant
> as a criticism, just a question from someone new to
> homebuilding.
>
> Thanks
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
This picture will give you an idea about the strenght of the rudder attachment:
http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
This is a 601 but the rudder attachment is the same for both 601 and 701.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
I am building the 701 and having fun and learning a lot. It's a design that perfectly
fits my mission.
Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it strikes me as
really the only potential question in the overall design. I am saying this
as a layman, not being a designer or engineer, however.
The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder seems to place much more
stress on them than if the hinges were evenly spaced from top to bottom like
many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder while turning are concentrated
all at one end and only on two hinges a few inches apart on a relatively large
surface.
Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design? Anyone considered adding
a third, middle hinge to provide some additional strength? This is not meant
as a criticism, just a question from someone new to homebuilding.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101778#101778
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zenith Rudder Design |
Dam, I took that picture. You think I would have thought of it ! Thanks
William. That plane sat inverted for 6 months, through thunderstorms and
wind, bashing the rudder every day almost. No One would touch it due to
fear of law suit. But after 6 months the airline had it removed stating
that it caused undue distress to it=92s customers boarding their plane!
I
was told some of the comments by the pilots, non aviation people are
pretty imaginative. By that way that picture is still posted as a
reminder that polypropylene rope is not an acceptable tie down material.
Best I have found by far is hemp rope for tie down. ( No, I=92m not a
hemp hippie, it was proven to me at a show once and I did testing on my
own and for strength and UV exposure, the hemp material outlasted
everything else)
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design
This picture will give you an idea about the strenght of the rudder
attachment:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm"http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
This is a 601 but the rudder attachment is the same for both 601 and
701.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
rbjjr <burkeandsusan@verizon.net> wrote:
I am building the 701 and having fun and learning a lot. It's a design
that perfectly fits my mission.
Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it
strikes me as really the only potential question in the overall design.
I am saying this as a layman, not being a designer or engineer, however.
The concentration of the
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
3/19/2007 11:49 AM
--
3/19/2007 11:49 AM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
The rudder surface that is ahead of the hinge axis reduces the cable and rudder
pedal pressure needed for a given amount of rudder deflection but does nothing
to reduce the lateral load on the rudder during that deflection. That being
said I agree that the hinge attachments are sufficiently strong as proven by no
reports of incidents. It ain't broke so no need to fix it IMHO.
Dred
---- MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an
> aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and
> the fuselage sitting on the gear.
>
> I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation
> a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout
> on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed
> into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge
> point would add little addtional strength since it
> wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on
> the fuselage.
>
> Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose
> rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be
> a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder
> that should reduce any stresses significantly.
>
> This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has
> been around for over twenty years. I am far from an
> expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of
> the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a
> little odd at first, it is designed that way.
> According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole
> plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin
> in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100
> mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Construction Logs made easy! |
For those of you that do not have MS Office, and would like a fully featured
FREE version of powerpoint, check out http://www.openoffice.org
Open office is essentially a MS office clone written and maintained by the
open source community. It has a clone of Word and Excel too.
It is compatible up to MS Office 2003.
-Tom
On 3/20/07, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>
>
> You can download a free PowerPoint 2003 viewer from Microsoft:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3nend
>
> There are also links at the bottom of that page to free viewers for
> Microsoft Word 2003, Excel 2003 and PowerPoint 2007.
>
> There was a product which compressed PowerPoint documents - it was called
> "Pointless" :-)
>
> -- Craig
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
if you go back a few years, to the 1970s, this rudder design for the ecception
of size, has been on every zenith aircraft, back to the Cricket. refer to the
zenith journals to 1984. that is well over 3000 aircraft. If it ain't broke..........
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: dredmoody@cox.net
>Sent: Mar 20, 2007 9:07 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design
>
>
>The rudder surface that is ahead of the hinge axis reduces the cable and rudder
pedal pressure needed for a given amount of rudder deflection but does nothing
to reduce the lateral load on the rudder during that deflection. That being
said I agree that the hinge attachments are sufficiently strong as proven by
no reports of incidents. It ain't broke so no need to fix it IMHO.
>
>Dred
>
>---- MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an
>> aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and
>> the fuselage sitting on the gear.
>>
>> I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation
>> a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout
>> on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed
>> into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge
>> point would add little addtional strength since it
>> wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on
>> the fuselage.
>>
>> Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose
>> rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be
>> a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder
>> that should reduce any stresses significantly.
>>
>> This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has
>> been around for over twenty years. I am far from an
>> expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of
>> the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a
>> little odd at first, it is designed that way.
>> According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole
>> plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin
>> in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100
>> mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location |
I am mounting mine in the NACA vent duct. I have seen numerous similar
installations on both certified and experimental aircraft.
Craig
N601XS, 601xl, 0-235 lyc, wiring in progress
Hi all,
Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage,
but not
sure of best (undisturbed location).
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| Subject: | Re: LRI positioning |
Mike, when I mounted mine I tried to do as much "brain" work as I could. I figured
that most traffic patterns turn to the left and as such the left wing would
be the most likely to stall first and result in a spin at low altitude. Knowing
when the left wing was about to stall was important close to the ground. Second,
on my XL (as well as most other XLs especially when only the left seat
is filled) the left wing is heavier making it the best candidate for a stall.
I put the probe on the left side after I built and flew some 70 hours. I mounted
it directly behind the main spar outside the pitot tube in clean air. That
way I got the most strength in the thin metal of the wing bottom. I attached the
probe to a plate as big as my hand, cut the hole in the bottom skin (painful
to lay tools on finished paint) drilled the holes, dimpled the skin and solid
riveted in nut plates inside the skin (similar to bellcrank access plates).
The larger holes allows for the access to the tubing
I ran through the wing ribs. Whole thing was a full weekend and then I needed
about a half dozen short hops to adjust the angle of the probe just right. Good
luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: macleod@eagle.ca
Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: LRI positioning
Group:
After reviewing the potential benefits of a LRI indicator and noting the
comments of the list members I have decided to install an AOA probe in my right
wing (the one I am currently assembling).
I plan to mount the AOA probe on the inboard side of rear rib #5 (yes, inside
the wing locker - should give easy access) at the same distance from the leading
edge as the pitot probe on the left wing. I am going to make the probe so that
it extends 10 inches below the wing. I will attach it to the rib with one 3/16
inch AN bolt until I have it calibrated at which time I will add an A5 rivet to
lock it in position.
My questions:
a) Is there a better location for the probe? (is the probe far enough from the
fuselage? would rib #7 be better?)
b) Any problems attaching it directly to the rib? (as the tiedown ring is
attached) or do I need a doubler?
c) Is 10 inches enough given the HUGE XL wing?
Thanks for your help
Mike in Ontario
601XL working on wings
________________________________________________________________________
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at AOL.com.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static Routing |
Ed, I'm not trying to rain on you wiring and tubing parade, but when I tried to
route them along the top corners of the console the control bolts bumped into
them on both sides. I suppose you might try to route them along the inside sides
of the console below the arch of the controls ? I on the other hand just cut
a couple small holes in the center section inside the area for wing bolts,
put in rubber bushing to protect the wires and tubes and ran them there. Not a
perfect solution but it works. Hope your doing well and making good progress,
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing
The only opening through the spar center section is the flanged hole in the
midline. Once you install the rudder fairleads there is only a little space left
to run wiring through there.
I'm planning on using the space in the center console above the spar center
section to route wiring and tubing up to the area forward of the instrument
panel. The biggest consideration in that route is the clearance for the movement
of the elevator horn and the threaded rod connecting it to the dual stick
assembly.
There should be adequate room to bundle the wiring and tubings that have to pass
there into two bundles, one on either side inside the console. The entire top of
my center console is removable with #6-32 screws and nutplates so I will wait to
run the wiring after the cables are rigged to make certain that there is no
interferrence.
Dred
---- Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how
you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel.
I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and
probably will) have better ideas than mine.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Jay in Dallas
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static Routing |
Jay, everything is pretty tight in these places. I ran the tubes into the cockpit
by making two holes down near the left side seatbelt attachment point. There
I attached two 90 degree fittings. I ran the tubes under the seat pan through
a hole into the area under the thigh area where there is good access. I made
two holes in the center section and connected the tubes to two more 90 degree
plastic fittings outside the center section and ran them along the front of the
center section to the side of the fuselage and up in front of an upright "L"
angle brace and up in behind the panel for attachment. It was a bear, but out
of sight and functional. I added a small protection plate over the fittings
so my big butt doesn't bump them getting in and out of the plane. When I installed
upholstery panels all was covered and protected even more. Best of luck,
Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 3:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing
Hi listers,
I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a few days.
I'm now back "ON".
I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how
you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel.
I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and
probably will) have better ideas than mine.
Thanks in advance
Jay in Dallas
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static Routing |
I routed most of my cables and tubing through the center spar opening
on either side of the control stick torque tube at the same level as
the torque tube. There is a gap between the outside of the two
extruded Ls and the flanged hole through the spar. I put vinyl
moldings on the edges of the hole and routed my bundles through these
openings. I tied them back against the sides of the tunnel and
covered them in spiral wrap. That way, no matter how the stick moves,
no part of it can contact the wire bundles. There is room in the arm
rest tunnel for your wiring as long as you tie it down so it stays
out of the way
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
Although nice things are being said about the integrity of the Zenith
rudder design, with its two closely spaced hinges, I recall Chris
Heintz writing in the Zenith newsletter some years ago about the 601
(pre-XL series) and mild aerobatics. It was something about how
although the aircraft spins fine, it hasn't officially been approved
for spins, and besides, one wouldn't want to be doing them all the
time given the closely spaced rudder hinges.
Unfortunately I don't have a source for the quote to confirm this. So
the hinges may be fine for the job, but not exactly overbuilt for
things the aircraft wasn't designed for.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
Message 13
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Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs synched
on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle arrangement
currently but have tried about a half dozen different setups and have
had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems to be with the off
center torque tube actuator which requires a longer cable to the left
carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that side. Tried
controlling the left carb off the left side and had problems with that
too.Believe it would be a lot better if could control the carbs from a
firewall center position with equal length cables, and some sort of
"slider" arrangement instead of the torque tube. That would also
eliminate the vertical s turn in the cable required by the stock setup.
Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix.
Joe
The green one on utube
85 hours
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 912 carb sync |
Hallo green one, seen your video, amazing ! is that a 80 hp 912!?
I have a different throttle setup, if you are interested, will send a
pic.
All the best,
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: jpspencer@cableone.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync
Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs
synched on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle arrangement
currently but have tried about a half dozen different setups and have
had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems to be with the off
center torque tube actuator which requires a longer cable to the left
carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that side. Tried
controlling the left carb off the left side and had problems with that
too.Believe it would be a lot better if could control the carbs from a
firewall center position with equal length cables, and some sort of
"slider" arrangement instead of the torque tube. That would also
eliminate the vertical s turn in the cable required by the stock setup.
Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix.
Joe
The green one on utube
85 hours
Message 15
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Joe,
Separate email headed your way to youe email address.
Zed/912/701/etc
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Construction Logs made easy! |
Joe - I'd like to see it. My email is pwhoyt@yahoo.com
Are you the guy with the red & white HDS that I was talking to at Oshkosh last
year?
We joked that there should be an award for "shortest distance traveled" because
the HDS was hangered across the field and just had to taxi over to the hombuilt
display area. :)
PatrickW
601/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101934#101934
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 912 carb sync |
Joe,
I had that same problem with my Subaru and dual Bing carburetors. I
went with a single .065 music wire push-pull wire in a cable casing and
linked
the carbs together solidly so that they hit stops each end of travel at
the same time. Now the throttle acts like one on any Cessna / Piper.
Suggest you go solid rather than cables and remove the springs on the
carb linkage arms if you still have them.
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
jpspencer@cableone.net wrote:
> Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs
> synched on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle
> arrangement currently but have tried about a half dozen different
> setups and have had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems
> to be with the off center torque tube actuator which requires a longer
> cable to the left carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that
> side. Tried controlling the left carb off the left side and had
> problems with that too.Believe it would be a lot better if could
> control the carbs from a firewall center position with equal length
> cables, and some sort of "slider" arrangement instead of the torque
> tube. That would also eliminate the vertical s turn in the
> cable required by the stock setup. Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix.
> Joe
> The green one on utube
> 85 hours
Message 18
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Greetings...
Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000
gage from
Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along!
Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to
replace (or
cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks,
too, to the
lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files!
john butterfield wrote:
>
> hi list
> i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a
> guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00.
> a really good deal.
>
> i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its
> a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a
> first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from
> electric power. again, please look into this system
> as it will make your flying easier and may save your
> life
> thanks for the tip doug
> john butterfield
> 601XL, corvair
> torrance, ca
>
>
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
-------------------------------------------------
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Improve your performance by improving your attitude.
Message 19
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It's very easy, but it will be tight the first time. Hold the body of
the gauge in one hand. Palm the face of the gauge with the other hand
and rotate to the left.
On 3/20/07, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> Greetings...
>
> Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000
> gage from
> Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along!
>
> Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to
> replace (or
> cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks,
> too, to the
> lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files!
>
>
> john butterfield wrote:
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> >
> > hi list
> > i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a
> > guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00.
> > a really good deal.
> >
> > i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its
> > a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a
> > first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from
> > electric power. again, please look into this system
> > as it will make your flying easier and may save your
> > life
> > thanks for the tip doug
> > john butterfield
> > 601XL, corvair
> > torrance, ca
> >
> >
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
> building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
> c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
> N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> To most people the sky is the limit.
> To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
>
> Improve your performance by improving your attitude.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 912 carb sync |
Hi,
The carb sync problem can be solved by doing away with the cables and
instead
using rods. Rods give positive control, do not require springs, and have
been working reliably for more than 1000 hrs over more than 10 years.
The details are on the website
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/linkage_carburetors.html
Happy flying,
Klaus Truemper
--
Klaus Truemper
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and
Computer Science EC31
P.O. Box 830688
Richardson, TX 75083-0688
(972) 883-2712
klaus@utdallas.edu
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: LRI positioning |
Mike, I haven't flown it yet but I did a little research and found that the boundary
layer of that wing isn't all that large. So I placed the center of the
dynon AOA pitot 5.5" from the wing surface. It is located in the same place
that the print shows 150mm back from the spar cap rivet line and just outboard
of rib 5.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101966#101966
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
Thanks all for the thoughtful responses and the picture is worth a thousand (more)
words.
Rgds
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101968#101968
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| Subject: | Making an LRI probe |
Hi
Any suggestions on how to make the probe? Drilling 5 7/8 (quite deep)into
the aluminum AND keeping it straight!!
Any suggestions??
Is this a job for a machine shop only?
Really anxious to try this thing out!!!!
Ron
>
_________________________________________________________________
Have Some Fun Out Of The Sun This March Break
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cidD6BDB4586E357F!142
Message 24
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Thanks! Worked like a charm. I used a couple of non-skid
mats I had
lying around. One to hold the gage, the other to turn the bezel.
Thanks also to 'CH701 (701stol)', who responded to me
personally!
Now: has anyone calibrated the needle? My panel is at an
angle, and the needle
doesn't quite 'zero'. My guess is that the two little
phillips head screws
at twelve o'clock will adjust the pressure on the diaphragm,
but I'm
just guessing. There's also a brass nut dead centre...
Dino wrote:
>
> It's very easy, but it will be tight the first time. Hold the body of
> the gauge in one hand. Palm the face of the gauge with the other hand
> and rotate to the left.
>
> On 3/20/07, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings...
>>
>> Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000
>> gage from
>> Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along!
>>
>> Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to
>> replace (or
>> cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks,
>> too, to the
>> lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files!
>>
>>
>>
>> john butterfield wrote:
>> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > hi list
>> > i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a
>> > guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00.
>> > a really good deal.
>> >
>> > i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its
>> > a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a
>> > first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from
>> > electric power. again, please look into this system
>> > as it will make your flying easier and may save your
>> > life
>> > thanks for the tip doug
>> > john butterfield
>> > 601XL, corvair
>> > torrance, ca
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
>> building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>> voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
>> c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
>> N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>> To most people the sky is the limit.
>> To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
>>
>> Improve your performance by improving your attitude.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
-------------------------------------------------
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Winners do what losers don't want to do.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Making an LRI probe |
Just wonderinf if it is possible to make the LRI probe out of Aluminiun Tubing
? (Like the Pitot tube only 2 tubes strapped together at proper distances etc.)
Anyone , any ideas ?
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101976#101976
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| Subject: | My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including the
rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it, the fiberglass
tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top of the rudder
is a polishing test,
with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting.
I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of
preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few ribs,
experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20
shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will
continue to be used as a car garage and storage for ready made components.
The shed provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building.
You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds between
my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light.
Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake before
moving to the ailerons and flaps.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Making an LRI probe |
Sorta like this ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101980#101980
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scan0002_183.bmp
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Making an LRI probe |
Hi Steve,
I suppose it would be possible to redesign the LRI probe, but I don't
know how you plan to make it work correctly. I looked at my probe
for a while and learned (I think) that the critical part of the probe
is the ridge formed by the leading corner of metal. It is this
structure that divides the airflow into two parts for sampling at the
two input holes.
The tube design would be OK for conducting the pressure to the gauge,
but you still need a way to get the differential pressure sample from
the airflow.
I don't think it is all that hard to drill the holes in the solid
aluminum as shown in the LRI drawing. I did it in an hour or two
with a drill press and hand held drill. I don't remember what kind
of drill bits I used, but it might have included some of those 6"
"Aircraft" drills.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 03:27 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote:
>
>Just wonderinf if it is possible to make the LRI probe out of
>Aluminiun Tubing ? (Like the Pitot tube only 2 tubes strapped
>together at proper distances etc.)
>
>Anyone , any ideas ?
>
>Steve
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101976#101976
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
William,
Excellent workmanship! Pleased to see a scratch-builder, your age, with
such proficiency and grit.
Looking forward to seeing your product this time next year. It does go
faster as you move forward.
Good luck.
Larry McFarland - plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
William Dominguez wrote:
> I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including
> the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see
> it, the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the
> top of the rudder is a polishing test,
> with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting.
>
> I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of
> preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few
> ribs, experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and
> build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a
> one car garage that will continue to be used as a car garage and
> storage for ready made components. The shed provide more privacy and
> better temperature during summer for building.
> You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds
> between my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light.
> Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake
> before moving to the ailerons and flaps.
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami, Florida
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
man! that is the cleanest nicest tail pieces I have seen in quite a while! NIce
Job !
JUan
-----Original Message-----
>From: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 20, 2007 7:48 PM
>To: Matronics List <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day
>
> I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including
the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it, the
fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top of the rudder
is a polishing test,
> with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting.
>
> I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of
preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few ribs,
experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20
shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will
continue to be used as a car garage and storage for ready made components.
The shed provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building.
> You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds between
my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light.
> Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake before
moving to the ailerons and flaps.
>
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami, Florida
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
Very nice work!
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101987#101987
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Making an LRI probe |
Hi Paul,
I don't think it is all that hard to drill your design either, and if you are correct
about the differential pressure bit, you are probably right about a lot
of stuffing around to get something that works correctly.
However, I'm sure it can be made to work, and as I have an "Enigma" EFIS that has
the LRI/AOA Gauge built in I'm gonna experiment a bit with it. ('Cos I'm like
that! LOL!)
Cheers,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101994#101994
Message 33
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Did any of you running Jabiru 3300's with the economizer kit end up changing out
the needle jet to a different size in order to get EGT's up where they belong?
Pete Krotje at JabiruUSA gave a talk where he said such a swap is often necessary
and I thought I'd get the needed jets on hand for when I start flight
testing.
I take delivery of my engine tomorrow and it will be quite awhile before I try
to start it up so I'm just thinking ahead.
Thanks!
Tim Juhl
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101995#101995
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static Routing |
Jay,
I have dual sticks and dual brakes in my XL. I agonized over the routing
of my pitot and static lines and also my brake lines. I understood from
Zenith that they routed their lines through the center spar center
lightening hole where the rudder control cables pass (I asked them
about the advisability of putting a hole through the neutral axis of the
center spar webs and they advised against it).
I found that I could route the lines through the center spar. I covered
the lines with ribbed plastic tubing (automotive wire bundle type,
procured from the airplane parts dept of Wal-Mart) for chafe protection
and tied the protected lines down on both sides of the center spar with
adel type clamps attached to the lower skin, to prevent movement. There
is no interference with the controls or control cables. This method
also permits filling the brake reservoirs from the brake bleed fittings,
as all the lines are below the brake cylinders.
I routed my electrical lines under the cockpit rails.
Tony Graziano
XL; 493TG; 218 hrs
Pitot/Static Routing
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
Date: Mon Mar 19 - 1:34 PM
Hi listers,
I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a
few days.
I'm now back "ON".
I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option)
about how you
have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the
panel.
I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others
may (and
probably will) have better ideas than mine.
Thanks in advance
Jay in Dallas
Message 35
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| Subject: | Fw: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 |
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2
Jim-
I-79. I work in Erie and commute every day. No problem with you
stopping by anytime!
I have the first generation CAD prints and had a response from
another lister with the same version as yours. No dimensions, but enough
information to where I could judge the positioning.
Thanks for your input. This is the type of post the list needs
rather than BS and harsh words!
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: jbarbour1@bluefrog.com
To: naumuk@alltel.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2
Bill I am just now catching up on my reading the Zenith matronics
mail. It looks like you have moved past your question but I'll share
what my CH 601 HDS plans indicate on plans page 6-F-12 dated 09/03
regarding riviting part 6-F-12-2. I do not see any distances between
rivits on the page but shows a total of 11 A5 rivits. Four of the A5s go
into tube frame 6F12-1 and are just shown evenly spaced over that area.
Five go through part 6F13-6 in 2 rows with 3 in the top and 2 below-
evenly space across the gusset. And the last 2 go below 6F13 -6 into
part 6F6-3 but spaced toward the inside of 6F6-3. The drawings I am
referring to cost me $50 from Zenith about a year ago and are a GREAT
improvement from what came with the kit in '99. I bought the 601 HDS
kit from a fellow in my area who had completed a wing, aileron and the
rudder. I am close to closing the horizonal stab. I also plan on using a
Corvair engine. I was able to attend WW's Corvair College #10 last
November. It was great fun. I live in Middlesex, NY which is south and
east of Rochester. I am originally from south of Pittsburgh so go down
I-75 from Erie about once a year. Was wondering if I could coordinate a
brief visit to see your plane the next time I come your way? I have
really enjoyed your input on the Matronics list. Thanks. Jim Barbour
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Center Arm Rest |
Larry-
Do you have a batch of pictures not on your site? I swear I've never
seen this one before!
I'd already resigned myself to installing the L angles, just wanted
HDSers on the list to beware of upcoming hassles. Figured the best way to
help people down the line was to identify a problem and get everyone's input
in one string.
The gent I spoke of a couple of weeks ago on list just bought an XL kit.
He lives about 1/2 hour away and is 70 years old. Showed up at my place
driving his Escalade but walked up to the front door wearing a yellow rain
slicker and Wellington boots. My kind of people. I'll introduce you once
he's "Settled in".
Thanks, as always.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Arm Rest
>
> Bill,
> I did have the angles in when the center section was complete, but it
> shouldn't be that difficult to do
> even after you've connected the tail. You might just have to stand in
> front of the center section to get it
> done, unless your floor is already in. (see link,)
>
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/centerwing/centersection/full/wing-spars-to-center-sectio.gif
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>> All-
>> I was moving merrily along on the front fuse when I come to steps 7
>> and 8 on FF-5.
>> "Cleco 6V12-4 to 6F16-1". No problem. "Cleco 6F16-1 to the L ANGLES".
>> Went back and checked, no mention of installing the armrest L angles
>> during c-section construction. No mention of their installation anywhere!
>> Checked out Larry Mac's and Jeff Small's pictures and neither show the L
>> angles installed at this stage of the game. Not a show-stopper, but if I
>> have to put them in now an extra foot of height and arm length would be
>> beneficial!
>> Thoughts?
>> do not archive (?) Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>> Townville, Pa
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
Nice tail. Keep up the good work.
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: Matronics List
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day
I have finally finished my tail. I'm building from scratch, including
the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it,
the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top
of the rudder is a polishing test,
with auto polish. So far I'm leaning toward painting.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->I started work on September 2006 after a
little over one year of preparation and planning. During that
preparation time, I made a few ribs, experimented with bending breaks
design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture
that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will continue to be
used as a car garage and storage for ready made components. The shed
provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->You can also notice in the picture how
"light" I am, at 270 pounds between my wife and myself, we are the best
part that keep things light.
Next, I'll do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake
before moving to the ailerons and flaps.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 38
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Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop?
http://www.iport.com/sales.html
Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it?
I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space from
somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or something.
Suggestions anyone?
BTW thanks to everyone for being so responsive and helpful to my previous
posts!
Thanks,
Tom
Message 39
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I recall that someone DID build their Zenith in a cargo container. But I
don't know where I read it.
I assume it would have some resale value so the cost would be even cheaper.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
Beautiful workmanship, keep at it.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102015#102015
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| Subject: | Re: Instant Garage |
I live in an apartment with no garage so I built my Zodiac in a 24'
cargo trailer that I bought for $4800 and parked in a outdoor storage
lot space that I rented for $35.00 a month. So it's certainly
possible to build in a container like this, and you can always sell
the container after you finish the plane. You do what you gotta do.
On Mar 20, 2007, at 10:37 PM, Tom Lutz wrote:
> Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop?
> http://www.iport.com/sales.html
>
> Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it?
>
> I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space
> from somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or
> something. Suggestions anyone?
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Instant Garage |
Hi Tom,
I guess the shipping container is a good starting point - depending
on the climate where you live. You would probably want to add some
ventilation openings and lots of lighting and power outlets.
One of the guys in my local EAA club rented a hangar at the airport
and is building his plane there. It has lots of space and sufficient
light and ventilation, but not enough heat to be comfortable in the
winter. I live in the NW rain forest, so it doesn't get all that
cold. Still, it is hard to work when the temperature is near freezing.
You might want to talk to your local chapter members and seek local
options. I am sure many of them have faced exactly the same problem
before you.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:37 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote:
>Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop?
><http://www.iport.com/sales.html>http://www.iport.com/sales.html
>
>Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it?
>
>I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space
>from somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or
>something. Suggestions anyone?
>
>BTW thanks to everyone for being so responsive and helpful to my
>previous posts!
>
>Thanks,
>Tom
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day |
Looks like you're off to a great start, Bill. You'll find lots of good people on
this forum to help and encourage you when you need it. Keep us updated on your
progress.
do not archive
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601XL from plans
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102036#102036
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