---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/20/07: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:00 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (MacDonald Doug) 2. 05:28 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (William Dominguez) 3. 05:54 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (ZodieRocket) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design () 5. 06:24 AM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (Tom Lutz) 6. 06:35 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (Juan Vega) 7. 07:22 AM - Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location (caspainhower@aep.com) 8. 08:40 AM - Re: LRI positioning (japhillipsga@aol.com) 9. 08:54 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (japhillipsga@aol.com) 10. 09:07 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (japhillipsga@aol.com) 11. 09:28 AM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (Bryan Martin) 12. 09:48 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (Peter Chapman) 13. 10:10 AM - 912 carb sync () 14. 11:52 AM - Re: 912 carb sync (Dirk Slabbert) 15. 12:01 PM - 912 carb sync (Zed Smith) 16. 12:30 PM - Re: Construction Logs made easy! (PatrickW) 17. 01:05 PM - Re: 912 carb sync (LarryMcFarland) 18. 02:34 PM - Re: lri gauge (j. davis) 19. 03:05 PM - Re: lri gauge (Dino Bortolin) 20. 03:23 PM - Re: 912 carb sync (Klaus Truemper) 21. 03:39 PM - Re: LRI positioning (Ron Lendon) 22. 03:58 PM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (rbjjr) 23. 04:10 PM - Making an LRI probe (Ron Lalonde) 24. 04:15 PM - Re: lri gauge (j. davis) 25. 04:28 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur) 26. 04:50 PM - My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (William Dominguez) 27. 05:07 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur) 28. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Making an LRI probe (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 05:28 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (LarryMcFarland) 30. 05:30 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Juan Vega) 31. 05:33 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Tim Juhl) 32. 06:01 PM - Re: Making an LRI probe (secatur) 33. 06:02 PM - Bing Carb Jets (Tim Juhl) 34. 06:38 PM - Re: Pitot/Static Routing (T. Graziano) 35. 06:55 PM - Fw: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 (Bill Naumuk) 36. 07:18 PM - Re: Center Arm Rest (Bill Naumuk) 37. 07:21 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Dave Ruddiman) 38. 07:37 PM - Instant Garage (Tom Lutz) 39. 07:51 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Craig Payne) 40. 07:54 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (Ron Lendon) 41. 07:59 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Bryan Martin) 42. 08:30 PM - Re: Instant Garage (Paul Mulwitz) 43. 10:24 PM - Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:27 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and the fuselage sitting on the gear. I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge point would add little addtional strength since it wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on the fuselage. Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder that should reduce any stresses significantly. This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has been around for over twenty years. I am far from an expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a little odd at first, it is designed that way. According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100 mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low. Good luck with your build. I know I am looking forward to getting mine into the sky. Doug MacDonald NW Ontario, Canada CH-701 Scratch Builder working on controls do not archive --- rbjjr wrote: > Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith > trademark, it strikes me as really the only > potential question in the overall design. I am > saying this as a layman, not being a designer or > engineer, however. > > The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder > seems to place much more stress on them than if the > hinges were evenly spaced from top to bottom like > many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder > while turning are concentrated all at one end and > only on two hinges a few inches apart on a > relatively large surface. > > Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design? > Anyone considered adding a third, middle hinge to > provide some additional strength? This is not meant > as a criticism, just a question from someone new to > homebuilding. > > Thanks The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:57 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design This picture will give you an idea about the strenght of the rudder attachment: http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm This is a 601 but the rudder attachment is the same for both 601 and 701. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida I am building the 701 and having fun and learning a lot. It's a design that perfectly fits my mission. Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it strikes me as really the only potential question in the overall design. I am saying this as a layman, not being a designer or engineer, however. The concentration of the hinges so low on the rudder seems to place much more stress on them than if the hinges were evenly spaced from top to bottom like many aircraft. The forces acting on the rudder while turning are concentrated all at one end and only on two hinges a few inches apart on a relatively large surface. Anyone ever heard of issues with this rudder design? Anyone considered adding a third, middle hinge to provide some additional strength? This is not meant as a criticism, just a question from someone new to homebuilding. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101778#101778 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:19 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design Dam, I took that picture. You think I would have thought of it ! Thanks William. That plane sat inverted for 6 months, through thunderstorms and wind, bashing the rudder every day almost. No One would touch it due to fear of law suit. But after 6 months the airline had it removed stating that it caused undue distress to it=92s customers boarding their plane! I was told some of the comments by the pilots, non aviation people are pretty imaginative. By that way that picture is still posted as a reminder that polypropylene rope is not an acceptable tie down material. Best I have found by far is hemp rope for tie down. ( No, I=92m not a hemp hippie, it was proven to me at a show once and I did testing on my own and for strength and UV exposure, the hemp material outlasted everything else) Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design This picture will give you an idea about the strenght of the rudder attachment: HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm"http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm This is a 601 but the rudder attachment is the same for both 601 and 701. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida rbjjr wrote: I am building the 701 and having fun and learning a lot. It's a design that perfectly fits my mission. Although I know the "all flying" rudder is a Zenith trademark, it strikes me as really the only potential question in the overall design. I am saying this as a layman, not being a designer or engineer, however. The concentration of the "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM -- 3/19/2007 11:49 AM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:27 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design The rudder surface that is ahead of the hinge axis reduces the cable and rudder pedal pressure needed for a given amount of rudder deflection but does nothing to reduce the lateral load on the rudder during that deflection. That being said I agree that the hinge attachments are sufficiently strong as proven by no reports of incidents. It ain't broke so no need to fix it IMHO. Dred ---- MacDonald Doug wrote: > > I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an > aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and > the fuselage sitting on the gear. > > I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation > a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout > on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed > into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge > point would add little addtional strength since it > wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on > the fuselage. > > Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose > rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be > a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder > that should reduce any stresses significantly. > > This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has > been around for over twenty years. I am far from an > expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of > the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a > little odd at first, it is designed that way. > According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole > plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin > in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100 > mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:37 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction Logs made easy! For those of you that do not have MS Office, and would like a fully featured FREE version of powerpoint, check out http://www.openoffice.org Open office is essentially a MS office clone written and maintained by the open source community. It has a clone of Word and Excel too. It is compatible up to MS Office 2003. -Tom On 3/20/07, Craig Payne wrote: > > > You can download a free PowerPoint 2003 viewer from Microsoft: > > http://tinyurl.com/3nend > > There are also links at the bottom of that page to free viewers for > Microsoft Word 2003, Excel 2003 and PowerPoint 2007. > > There was a product which compressed PowerPoint documents - it was called > "Pointless" :-) > > -- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:49 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design if you go back a few years, to the 1970s, this rudder design for the ecception of size, has been on every zenith aircraft, back to the Cricket. refer to the zenith journals to 1984. that is well over 3000 aircraft. If it ain't broke.......... Juan -----Original Message----- >From: dredmoody@cox.net >Sent: Mar 20, 2007 9:07 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Rudder Design > > >The rudder surface that is ahead of the hinge axis reduces the cable and rudder pedal pressure needed for a given amount of rudder deflection but does nothing to reduce the lateral load on the rudder during that deflection. That being said I agree that the hinge attachments are sufficiently strong as proven by no reports of incidents. It ain't broke so no need to fix it IMHO. > >Dred > >---- MacDonald Doug wrote: >> >> I am also building a CH-701. I am by no means an >> aeronautical engineer but I have the rudder built and >> the fuselage sitting on the gear. >> >> I think you might be overthinking the rudder situation >> a little bit. The attachment points are pretty stout >> on this design. The upper and lower hinge points feed >> into the upper and lower longerons so a third hinge >> point would add little addtional strength since it >> wouldn't have anything of substance to attach to on >> the fuselage. >> >> Another thing that I've noticed is that with the nose >> rib extending ahead of the hinge point, there will be >> a certain amount of aerodynamic balance to the rudder >> that should reduce any stresses significantly. >> >> This is not a new design by any means. The CH-701 has >> been around for over twenty years. I am far from an >> expert on this but I have never heard of a failure of >> the rudder hinge mechanism. Although it does seem a >> little odd at first, it is designed that way. >> According to the designer (Chris Heintz), the whole >> plane was designed with a good dose of safety margin >> in mind. Since the top speed is only just over 100 >> mph, the stresses on the tail are fairly low. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: OAT (Outside Air Temp. probe) location From: caspainhower@aep.com I am mounting mine in the NACA vent duct. I have seen numerous similar installations on both certified and experimental aircraft. Craig N601XS, 601xl, 0-235 lyc, wiring in progress Hi all, Any suggestions as to best location for OAT probe. Am thinking fuslage, but not sure of best (undisturbed location). ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LRI positioning From: japhillipsga@aol.com Mike, when I mounted mine I tried to do as much "brain" work as I could. I figured that most traffic patterns turn to the left and as such the left wing would be the most likely to stall first and result in a spin at low altitude. Knowing when the left wing was about to stall was important close to the ground. Second, on my XL (as well as most other XLs especially when only the left seat is filled) the left wing is heavier making it the best candidate for a stall. I put the probe on the left side after I built and flew some 70 hours. I mounted it directly behind the main spar outside the pitot tube in clean air. That way I got the most strength in the thin metal of the wing bottom. I attached the probe to a plate as big as my hand, cut the hole in the bottom skin (painful to lay tools on finished paint) drilled the holes, dimpled the skin and solid riveted in nut plates inside the skin (similar to bellcrank access plates). The larger holes allows for the access to the tubing I ran through the wing ribs. Whole thing was a full weekend and then I needed about a half dozen short hops to adjust the angle of the probe just right. Good luck, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: macleod@eagle.ca Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: LRI positioning Group: After reviewing the potential benefits of a LRI indicator and noting the comments of the list members I have decided to install an AOA probe in my right wing (the one I am currently assembling). I plan to mount the AOA probe on the inboard side of rear rib #5 (yes, inside the wing locker - should give easy access) at the same distance from the leading edge as the pitot probe on the left wing. I am going to make the probe so that it extends 10 inches below the wing. I will attach it to the rib with one 3/16 inch AN bolt until I have it calibrated at which time I will add an A5 rivet to lock it in position. My questions: a) Is there a better location for the probe? (is the probe far enough from the fuselage? would rib #7 be better?) b) Any problems attaching it directly to the rib? (as the tiedown ring is attached) or do I need a doubler? c) Is 10 inches enough given the HUGE XL wing? Thanks for your help Mike in Ontario 601XL working on wings ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing From: japhillipsga@aol.com Ed, I'm not trying to rain on you wiring and tubing parade, but when I tried to route them along the top corners of the console the control bolts bumped into them on both sides. I suppose you might try to route them along the inside sides of the console below the arch of the controls ? I on the other hand just cut a couple small holes in the center section inside the area for wing bolts, put in rubber bushing to protect the wires and tubes and ran them there. Not a perfect solution but it works. Hope your doing well and making good progress, Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing The only opening through the spar center section is the flanged hole in the midline. Once you install the rudder fairleads there is only a little space left to run wiring through there. I'm planning on using the space in the center console above the spar center section to route wiring and tubing up to the area forward of the instrument panel. The biggest consideration in that route is the clearance for the movement of the elevator horn and the threaded rod connecting it to the dual stick assembly. There should be adequate room to bundle the wiring and tubings that have to pass there into two bundles, one on either side inside the console. The entire top of my center console is removable with #6-32 screws and nutplates so I will wait to run the wiring after the cables are rigged to make certain that there is no interferrence. Dred ---- Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > > I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. > > Thanks in advance > Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing From: japhillipsga@aol.com Jay, everything is pretty tight in these places. I ran the tubes into the cockpit by making two holes down near the left side seatbelt attachment point. There I attached two 90 degree fittings. I ran the tubes under the seat pan through a hole into the area under the thigh area where there is good access. I made two holes in the center section and connected the tubes to two more 90 degree plastic fittings outside the center section and ran them along the front of the center section to the side of the fuselage and up in front of an upright "L" angle brace and up in behind the panel for attachment. It was a bear, but out of sight and functional. I added a small protection plate over the fittings so my big butt doesn't bump them getting in and out of the plane. When I installed upholstery panels all was covered and protected even more. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: Jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 3:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing Hi listers, I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a few days. I'm now back "ON". I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. Thanks in advance Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:11 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pitot/Static Routing I routed most of my cables and tubing through the center spar opening on either side of the control stick torque tube at the same level as the torque tube. There is a gap between the outside of the two extruded Ls and the flanged hole through the spar. I put vinyl moldings on the edges of the hole and routed my bundles through these openings. I tied them back against the sides of the tunnel and covered them in spiral wrap. That way, no matter how the stick moves, no part of it can contact the wire bundles. There is room in the arm rest tunnel for your wiring as long as you tie it down so it stays out of the way -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:58 AM PST US From: Peter Chapman Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith Rudder Design Although nice things are being said about the integrity of the Zenith rudder design, with its two closely spaced hinges, I recall Chris Heintz writing in the Zenith newsletter some years ago about the 601 (pre-XL series) and mild aerobatics. It was something about how although the aircraft spins fine, it hasn't officially been approved for spins, and besides, one wouldn't want to be doing them all the time given the closely spaced rudder hinges. Unfortunately I don't have a source for the quote to confirm this. So the hinges may be fine for the job, but not exactly overbuilt for things the aircraft wasn't designed for. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs synched on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle arrangement currently but have tried about a half dozen different setups and have had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems to be with the off center torque tube actuator which requires a longer cable to the left carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that side. Tried controlling the left carb off the left side and had problems with that too.Believe it would be a lot better if could control the carbs from a firewall center position with equal length cables, and some sort of "slider" arrangement instead of the torque tube. That would also eliminate the vertical s turn in the cable required by the stock setup. Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix. Joe The green one on utube 85 hours ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:29 AM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync Hallo green one, seen your video, amazing ! is that a 80 hp 912!? I have a different throttle setup, if you are interested, will send a pic. All the best, Dirk. ----- Original Message ----- From: jpspencer@cableone.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs synched on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle arrangement currently but have tried about a half dozen different setups and have had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems to be with the off center torque tube actuator which requires a longer cable to the left carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that side. Tried controlling the left carb off the left side and had problems with that too.Believe it would be a lot better if could control the carbs from a firewall center position with equal length cables, and some sort of "slider" arrangement instead of the torque tube. That would also eliminate the vertical s turn in the cable required by the stock setup. Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix. Joe The green one on utube 85 hours ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:42 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync Joe, Separate email headed your way to youe email address. Zed/912/701/etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Construction Logs made easy! From: "PatrickW" Joe - I'd like to see it. My email is pwhoyt@yahoo.com Are you the guy with the red & white HDS that I was talking to at Oshkosh last year? We joked that there should be an award for "shortest distance traveled" because the HDS was hangered across the field and just had to taxi over to the hombuilt display area. :) PatrickW 601/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101934#101934 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:49 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 carb sync Joe, I had that same problem with my Subaru and dual Bing carburetors. I went with a single .065 music wire push-pull wire in a cable casing and linked the carbs together solidly so that they hit stops each end of travel at the same time. Now the throttle acts like one on any Cessna / Piper. Suggest you go solid rather than cables and remove the springs on the carb linkage arms if you still have them. Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com jpspencer@cableone.net wrote: > Anybody besides me have problems with getting/keeping the carbs > synched on their 912. I have the standard issue 701 throttle > arrangement currently but have tried about a half dozen different > setups and have had problems with all of them. The main trouble seems > to be with the off center torque tube actuator which requires a longer > cable to the left carb resulting in a bunch more cable slop on that > side. Tried controlling the left carb off the left side and had > problems with that too.Believe it would be a lot better if could > control the carbs from a firewall center position with equal length > cables, and some sort of "slider" arrangement instead of the torque > tube. That would also eliminate the vertical s turn in the > cable required by the stock setup. Anybody got a "quick easy cheap" fix. > Joe > The green one on utube > 85 hours ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:07 PM PST US From: "j. davis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lri gauge Greetings... Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000 gage from Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along! Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to replace (or cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks, too, to the lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files! john butterfield wrote: > > hi list > i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a > guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00. > a really good deal. > > i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its > a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a > first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from > electric power. again, please look into this system > as it will make your flying easier and may save your > life > thanks for the tip doug > john butterfield > 601XL, corvair > torrance, ca > > -- Regards, J. flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs. building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed ------------------------------------------------- J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science) *NIX consulting, SysAdmin email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' ------------------------------------------------- To most people the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home. Improve your performance by improving your attitude. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:37 PM PST US From: "Dino Bortolin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lri gauge It's very easy, but it will be tight the first time. Hold the body of the gauge in one hand. Palm the face of the gauge with the other hand and rotate to the left. On 3/20/07, j. davis wrote: > > Greetings... > > Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000 > gage from > Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along! > > Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to > replace (or > cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks, > too, to the > lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files! > > > john butterfield wrote: > > > > > hi list > > i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a > > guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00. > > a really good deal. > > > > i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its > > a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a > > first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from > > electric power. again, please look into this system > > as it will make your flying easier and may save your > > life > > thanks for the tip doug > > john butterfield > > 601XL, corvair > > torrance, ca > > > > > > -- > Regards, J. > > flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs. > building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed > > ------------------------------------------------- > J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science) > *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca > c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON > N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' > ------------------------------------------------- > > To most people the sky is the limit. > To those who love aviation, the sky is home. > > Improve your performance by improving your attitude. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:00 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 912 carb sync Hi, The carb sync problem can be solved by doing away with the cables and instead using rods. Rods give positive control, do not require springs, and have been working reliably for more than 1000 hrs over more than 10 years. The details are on the website www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/linkage_carburetors.html Happy flying, Klaus Truemper -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: LRI positioning From: "Ron Lendon" Mike, I haven't flown it yet but I did a little research and found that the boundary layer of that wing isn't all that large. So I placed the center of the dynon AOA pitot 5.5" from the wing surface. It is located in the same place that the print shows 150mm back from the spar cap rivet line and just outboard of rib 5. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101966#101966 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith Rudder Design From: "rbjjr" Thanks all for the thoughtful responses and the picture is worth a thousand (more) words. Rgds Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101968#101968 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:57 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Zenith-List: Making an LRI probe Hi Any suggestions on how to make the probe? Drilling 5 7/8 (quite deep)into the aluminum AND keeping it straight!! Any suggestions?? Is this a job for a machine shop only? Really anxious to try this thing out!!!! Ron > _________________________________________________________________ Have Some Fun Out Of The Sun This March Break http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cidD6BDB4586E357F!142 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:07 PM PST US From: "j. davis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lri gauge Thanks! Worked like a charm. I used a couple of non-skid mats I had lying around. One to hold the gage, the other to turn the bezel. Thanks also to 'CH701 (701stol)', who responded to me personally! Now: has anyone calibrated the needle? My panel is at an angle, and the needle doesn't quite 'zero'. My guess is that the two little phillips head screws at twelve o'clock will adjust the pressure on the diaphragm, but I'm just guessing. There's also a brass nut dead centre... Dino wrote: > > It's very easy, but it will be tight the first time. Hold the body of > the gauge in one hand. Palm the face of the gauge with the other hand > and rotate to the left. > > On 3/20/07, j. davis wrote: >> >> Greetings... >> >> Thanks to advice on this list, I just received a Dwyer 5000 >> gage from >> Surplus Center. Thanks for passing that tidbit along! >> >> Question: is there a trick to disassembling the gage to >> replace (or >> cover) the stock face with the new LRI face. And thanks, >> too, to the >> lister who posted the nice colour faceplate files! >> >> >> >> john butterfield wrote: >> >> > >> > hi list >> > i looked up doug naylor's suggestion and ordered a >> > guage at 12.00 plus shipping. a total of about 22.00. >> > a really good deal. >> > >> > i also have the probe from from scott laughlin and its >> > a fine piece of work. for about 85.00 you can have a >> > first rate aoa system totally self sufficient from >> > electric power. again, please look into this system >> > as it will make your flying easier and may save your >> > life >> > thanks for the tip doug >> > john butterfield >> > 601XL, corvair >> > torrance, ca >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Regards, J. >> >> flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs. >> building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science) >> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin >> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca >> voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca >> c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON >> N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> To most people the sky is the limit. >> To those who love aviation, the sky is home. >> >> Improve your performance by improving your attitude. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Regards, J. flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs. building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed ------------------------------------------------- J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science) *NIX consulting, SysAdmin email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' ------------------------------------------------- To most people the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home. Winners do what losers don't want to do. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe From: "secatur" Just wonderinf if it is possible to make the LRI probe out of Aluminiun Tubing ? (Like the Pitot tube only 2 tubes strapped together at proper distances etc.) Anyone , any ideas ? Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101976#101976 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:06 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it, the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top of the rudder is a polishing test, with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting. I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few ribs, experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will continue to be used as a car garage and storage for ready made components. The shed provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building. You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds between my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light. Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake before moving to the ailerons and flaps. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe From: "secatur" Sorta like this ? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101980#101980 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/scan0002_183.bmp ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:32 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe Hi Steve, I suppose it would be possible to redesign the LRI probe, but I don't know how you plan to make it work correctly. I looked at my probe for a while and learned (I think) that the critical part of the probe is the ridge formed by the leading corner of metal. It is this structure that divides the airflow into two parts for sampling at the two input holes. The tube design would be OK for conducting the pressure to the gauge, but you still need a way to get the differential pressure sample from the airflow. I don't think it is all that hard to drill the holes in the solid aluminum as shown in the LRI drawing. I did it in an hour or two with a drill press and hand held drill. I don't remember what kind of drill bits I used, but it might have included some of those 6" "Aircraft" drills. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 03:27 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote: > >Just wonderinf if it is possible to make the LRI probe out of >Aluminiun Tubing ? (Like the Pitot tube only 2 tubes strapped >together at proper distances etc.) > >Anyone , any ideas ? > >Steve > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101976#101976 > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:40 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day William, Excellent workmanship! Pleased to see a scratch-builder, your age, with such proficiency and grit. Looking forward to seeing your product this time next year. It does go faster as you move forward. Good luck. Larry McFarland - plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive William Dominguez wrote: > I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including > the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see > it, the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the > top of the rudder is a polishing test, > with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting. > > I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of > preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few > ribs, experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and > build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a > one car garage that will continue to be used as a car garage and > storage for ready made components. The shed provide more privacy and > better temperature during summer for building. > You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds > between my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light. > Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake > before moving to the ailerons and flaps. > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami, Florida > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:40 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day man! that is the cleanest nicest tail pieces I have seen in quite a while! NIce Job ! JUan -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Mar 20, 2007 7:48 PM >To: Matronics List >Subject: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day > > I have finally finished my tail. Im building from scratch, including the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it, the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top of the rudder is a polishing test, > with auto polish. So far Im leaning toward painting. > > I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few ribs, experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will continue to be used as a car garage and storage for ready made components. The shed provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building. > You can also notice in the picture how light I am, at 270 pounds between my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light. > Next, Ill do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake before moving to the ailerons and flaps. > > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami, Florida ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day From: "Tim Juhl" Very nice work! Tim Juhl -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101987#101987 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe From: "secatur" Hi Paul, I don't think it is all that hard to drill your design either, and if you are correct about the differential pressure bit, you are probably right about a lot of stuffing around to get something that works correctly. However, I'm sure it can be made to work, and as I have an "Enigma" EFIS that has the LRI/AOA Gauge built in I'm gonna experiment a bit with it. ('Cos I'm like that! LOL!) Cheers, Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101994#101994 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Bing Carb Jets From: "Tim Juhl" Did any of you running Jabiru 3300's with the economizer kit end up changing out the needle jet to a different size in order to get EGT's up where they belong? Pete Krotje at JabiruUSA gave a talk where he said such a swap is often necessary and I thought I'd get the needed jets on hand for when I start flight testing. I take delivery of my engine tomorrow and it will be quite awhile before I try to start it up so I'm just thinking ahead. Thanks! Tim Juhl -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101995#101995 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:50 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Pitot/Static Routing Jay, I have dual sticks and dual brakes in my XL. I agonized over the routing of my pitot and static lines and also my brake lines. I understood from Zenith that they routed their lines through the center spar center lightening hole where the rudder control cables pass (I asked them about the advisability of putting a hole through the neutral axis of the center spar webs and they advised against it). I found that I could route the lines through the center spar. I covered the lines with ribbed plastic tubing (automotive wire bundle type, procured from the airplane parts dept of Wal-Mart) for chafe protection and tied the protected lines down on both sides of the center spar with adel type clamps attached to the lower skin, to prevent movement. There is no interference with the controls or control cables. This method also permits filling the brake reservoirs from the brake bleed fittings, as all the lines are below the brake cylinders. I routed my electrical lines under the cockpit rails. Tony Graziano XL; 493TG; 218 hrs Pitot/Static Routing From: Jaybannist@cs.com Date: Mon Mar 19 - 1:34 PM Hi listers, I'm still not sure what happened, but I got bumped off the list for a few days. I'm now back "ON". I am interested in hearing from all XL builders (dual stick option) about how you have, or plan to route the pitot & static lines from the wing to the panel. I think I have thought this through, but I have discovered that others may (and probably will) have better ideas than mine. Thanks in advance Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:53 PM Subject: Re: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 Jim- I-79. I work in Erie and commute every day. No problem with you stopping by anytime! I have the first generation CAD prints and had a response from another lister with the same version as yours. No dimensions, but enough information to where I could judge the positioning. Thanks for your input. This is the type of post the list needs rather than BS and harsh words! Good building. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: jbarbour1@bluefrog.com To: naumuk@alltel.net Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:21 PM Subject: rivit pattern in 6-F-12-2 Bill I am just now catching up on my reading the Zenith matronics mail. It looks like you have moved past your question but I'll share what my CH 601 HDS plans indicate on plans page 6-F-12 dated 09/03 regarding riviting part 6-F-12-2. I do not see any distances between rivits on the page but shows a total of 11 A5 rivits. Four of the A5s go into tube frame 6F12-1 and are just shown evenly spaced over that area. Five go through part 6F13-6 in 2 rows with 3 in the top and 2 below- evenly space across the gusset. And the last 2 go below 6F13 -6 into part 6F6-3 but spaced toward the inside of 6F6-3. The drawings I am referring to cost me $50 from Zenith about a year ago and are a GREAT improvement from what came with the kit in '99. I bought the 601 HDS kit from a fellow in my area who had completed a wing, aileron and the rudder. I am close to closing the horizonal stab. I also plan on using a Corvair engine. I was able to attend WW's Corvair College #10 last November. It was great fun. I live in Middlesex, NY which is south and east of Rochester. I am originally from south of Pittsburgh so go down I-75 from Erie about once a year. Was wondering if I could coordinate a brief visit to see your plane the next time I come your way? I have really enjoyed your input on the Matronics list. Thanks. Jim Barbour ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:01 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Arm Rest Larry- Do you have a batch of pictures not on your site? I swear I've never seen this one before! I'd already resigned myself to installing the L angles, just wanted HDSers on the list to beware of upcoming hassles. Figured the best way to help people down the line was to identify a problem and get everyone's input in one string. The gent I spoke of a couple of weeks ago on list just bought an XL kit. He lives about 1/2 hour away and is 70 years old. Showed up at my place driving his Escalade but walked up to the front door wearing a yellow rain slicker and Wellington boots. My kind of people. I'll introduce you once he's "Settled in". Thanks, as always. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Arm Rest > > Bill, > I did have the angles in when the center section was complete, but it > shouldn't be that difficult to do > even after you've connected the tail. You might just have to stand in > front of the center section to get it > done, unless your floor is already in. (see link,) > > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/centerwing/centersection/full/wing-spars-to-center-sectio.gif > > Larry McFarland > > Bill Naumuk wrote: >> All- >> I was moving merrily along on the front fuse when I come to steps 7 >> and 8 on FF-5. >> "Cleco 6V12-4 to 6F16-1". No problem. "Cleco 6F16-1 to the L ANGLES". >> Went back and checked, no mention of installing the armrest L angles >> during c-section construction. No mention of their installation anywhere! >> Checked out Larry Mac's and Jeff Small's pictures and neither show the L >> angles installed at this stage of the game. Not a show-stopper, but if I >> have to put them in now an extra foot of height and arm length would be >> beneficial! >> Thoughts? >> do not archive (?) Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuse/Corvair >> Townville, Pa >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:29 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day Nice tail. Keep up the good work. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: Matronics List Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:48 PM Subject: Zenith-List: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day I have finally finished my tail. I'm building from scratch, including the rudder and It took me around 150 hours to complete it as you see it, the fiberglass tips will be made later on. The spot you see at the top of the rudder is a polishing test, with auto polish. So far I'm leaning toward painting. I started work on September 2006 after a little over one year of preparation and planning. During that preparation time, I made a few ribs, experimented with bending breaks design, study the plans and build the 8 x 20 shed behind the picture that act as my shop. I have a one car garage that will continue to be used as a car garage and storage for ready made components. The shed provide more privacy and better temperature during summer for building. You can also notice in the picture how "light" I am, at 270 pounds between my wife and myself, we are the best part that keep things light. Next, I'll do my log web site and some enhancement to my bending brake before moving to the ailerons and flaps. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:34 PM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Zenith-List: Instant Garage Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop? http://www.iport.com/sales.html Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it? I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space from somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or something. Suggestions anyone? BTW thanks to everyone for being so responsive and helpful to my previous posts! Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:28 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Instant Garage I recall that someone DID build their Zenith in a cargo container. But I don't know where I read it. I assume it would have some resale value so the cost would be even cheaper. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day From: "Ron Lendon" Beautiful workmanship, keep at it. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102015#102015 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:59 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instant Garage I live in an apartment with no garage so I built my Zodiac in a 24' cargo trailer that I bought for $4800 and parked in a outdoor storage lot space that I rented for $35.00 a month. So it's certainly possible to build in a container like this, and you can always sell the container after you finish the plane. You do what you gotta do. On Mar 20, 2007, at 10:37 PM, Tom Lutz wrote: > Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop? > http://www.iport.com/sales.html > > Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it? > > I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space > from somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or > something. Suggestions anyone? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:01 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instant Garage Hi Tom, I guess the shipping container is a good starting point - depending on the climate where you live. You would probably want to add some ventilation openings and lots of lighting and power outlets. One of the guys in my local EAA club rented a hangar at the airport and is building his plane there. It has lots of space and sufficient light and ventilation, but not enough heat to be comfortable in the winter. I live in the NW rain forest, so it doesn't get all that cold. Still, it is hard to work when the temperature is near freezing. You might want to talk to your local chapter members and seek local options. I am sure many of them have faced exactly the same problem before you. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 06:37 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote: >Anyone have thoughts about using one of these for a workshop? >http://www.iport.com/sales.html > >Costs around $2100 delivered and freshly painted -- is it worth it? > >I have a basement with limited access and no garage. I need space >from somewhere, whether it's one of these, rented storage, or >something. Suggestions anyone? > >BTW thanks to everyone for being so responsive and helpful to my >previous posts! > >Thanks, >Tom > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: My First Milestone + Pic of the Day From: "TxDave" Looks like you're off to a great start, Bill. You'll find lots of good people on this forum to help and encourage you when you need it. Keep us updated on your progress. do not archive Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL from plans http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102036#102036 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.