Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:59 AM - Old kit (chrisoz@bmail.com.au)
2. 03:50 AM - anybody have an XL near Greenville, TX? (David Downey)
3. 04:29 AM - Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (burbby)
4. 05:07 AM - Re: Apology (secatur)
5. 05:07 AM - Re: Apology (ashontz)
6. 05:09 AM - Re: Apology (steveadams)
7. 06:35 AM - Sky Sports no longer offering 701 FWF kit (Geoff Heap)
8. 06:38 AM - Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (Gig Giacona)
9. 06:38 AM - Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures (ashontz)
10. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Apology (Bryan Martin)
11. 06:43 AM - Re: Old kit (Gig Giacona)
12. 06:44 AM - Re: Cradle to Grave (Scott Thatcher)
13. 06:47 AM - Re: Old kit (LarryMcFarland)
14. 06:48 AM - Re: E-LSA 601 (Bryan Martin)
15. 06:49 AM - Re: Apology (ashontz)
16. 06:54 AM - Re: Zenith Rudder Design (ashontz)
17. 07:19 AM - Re: E-LSA 601 (Gig Giacona)
18. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: E-LSA 601 (Bryan Martin)
19. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: E-LSA 601 (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (burbby)
21. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Old kit (David Downey)
22. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Old kit (Craig Payne)
23. 09:34 AM - Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures (TxDave)
24. 09:48 AM - Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures (ashontz)
25. 09:53 AM - Corvair - Dual sparkplugs (ashontz)
26. 10:09 AM - fittings, fuel system (Carlos Sa)
27. 10:47 AM - Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! (ashontz)
28. 11:49 AM - Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (Gig Giacona)
29. 11:51 AM - Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs (Gig Giacona)
30. 12:11 PM - Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs (Craig Payne)
31. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (Jaybannist@cs.com)
32. 12:23 PM - Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs (Gig Giacona)
33. 12:27 PM - Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing (Gig Giacona)
34. 01:07 PM - old style 601XL wheel pants ()
35. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! (William Condon)
36. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Apology (NYTerminat@aol.com)
37. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! (Brandon Tucker)
38. 04:53 PM - Re: Old kit (Bill Naumuk)
39. 05:26 PM - Re: Flap Motor Switch (Ron Ellis)
40. 05:40 PM - Re: Flap Motor Switch (Craig Payne)
41. 08:52 PM - Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs (David Downey)
42. 10:22 PM - Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures (TxDave)
Message 1
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Hello Listers,
I have bought a 601 HDS kit on ebay last month, and this weekend flew to
the east coast (of Australia) to pick it up. Kind of exciting if you buy
something unseen (no photos), pay $5000 to a person you don't know and who
can't tell you much about the kit ( not even the type of 601), but I guess
one sometimes has to take a leap of faith.
The kit had basically not been touched, except for the rudder which had
been clecoed together. The kit is 10 years old and has spent the last 8
years in a shed gathering dust and sustaining a bit of surface corrosion.
While I initially didn't expect it to be complete to my delight it turned
out to be, including canopy, long range tanks and even a set of strobes.
The canopy has been rolled up for ten years, and has sat in a hot shed.
Here is the question: Has anybody encountered problems with unrolling
their canopys after a longer period of time?
Also the kit came with a set of plans and a serial number, but no manual
and the plans are dor the HD model. I hope Zenair will update the plans
and provide me with a replacement manual, if not I might have to ask you
guys for help.
Greeting from Perth,
Chris
Message 2
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| Subject: | anybody have an XL near Greenville, TX? |
Hi listers;
I just learned that I am to be in the Greenville, TX area on Wednesday evening
and Thursday AM. Does anyone with an XL keep it in that area and would they
be willing to allow me some cockpit-fit time in the hangar or on the ramp? I have
never even seen one (but have started building!) and would like to feel it
out.
Thank you all.
Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
Jeff,
i have the same setup on the sensor, I recommend you go online to Amazon pipes
and fittings, you can order the npt fittings there.
juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff
>Sent: Mar 26, 2007 8:34 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru fuel pressure sensor hookup
>
>It is amazing how little things can stop me cold. I'm installing the Dynon
>Engine Management System (EMS) in my 601 with a Jabiru 3300A (solid
>lifters). I'm installing the fuel flow sensor. The Dynon sensor has a 1/8
>inch NPT male thread on it. I am using the Zenith supplied 1/4 Inch inside
>diameter ( I know about using 3/8ths) fuel hose. Has anyone found a fitting
>or set of fittings that has a female 1/8th NPT on one end and a hose barb on
>the other? Dynon has not replied so far. Thanks .
>
>Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
I am installing the wing lockers. Is there enough space to route the pitot/static
lines through the lighting holes with the aileron cables; and allow a good
clearance? I was thinking of drilling holes in the ribs and use gromets for
protection. any ideas
Zodiac XL
Gary Bassham
Millsap, TX
do not archive
---------------------------------
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
Message 4
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All this to-ing and fro-ing leads to one end. YOU CAN"T LEGISLATE AGAINST STUPIDITY
!
So whatever you decide is a right action for you..JUST DON"T BE STUPID!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103162#103162
Message 5
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Just from memory, I thought a regular Cessna 152 was +4 and -3 Gs where as an aerobat
is +6, -6 Gs, which is the same as a 601Xl, so wouldn't that by default
qualify a 601XL as an aerobatic plane by default? That wouldn't apply to the
701 though.
pilot4pay wrote:
> Juan, this is just not true. The FAA will cite you if you say that, and
> they know your AC is not an aerobatic aircraft. Heck, they're even searching
> social security records to link disabilities to pilot medicals! If they will
> go to those lengths to write a violation and revoke a pilot certificate,
> don't you think operating an aircraft outside it's operating limitations
> would be similar? Free speech has nothing to do with it, apples and oranges!
> If any of the aircraft in the videos is US registered, lets see if someone
> wants to send it in to the local FSDO, just to see what happens?
> Craig Smith
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103161#103161
Message 6
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amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Rick,
> you can use 601 ELSAs for hire (4profit) up to the end of 2008. New LSA rules
allow for it.
> JUan
>
> --
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there are any E-LSA 601's. A conforming
kit has not been approved.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103163#103163
Message 7
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| Subject: | Sky Sports no longer offering 701 FWF kit |
I just recieved my 912 from Lockwood. This morning I went to the Skyshop website.
I saw that the Firewall fwd kit was removed from their Zenith accessories page
so I queried them. The following is my reply.....
Geoff,
yes, it's correct, we do not have enough skilled personnel to provide technical
support.
Best regards,
Zaneta
This is disapointing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103171#103171
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets is
also a pretty good option.
I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the
power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103172#103172
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures |
Looks good. I'm about ready to skin my first wing myself.
Regarding the 3 piece nose skin design, did you research any existing production
planes for this? I like the idea, would make maintenance much easier, I just
wonder how much it affects the overall strength of the wing if at all.
How long did it take you to put the skins on? Just curious, because I'm up to that
point myself.
do not archive
TxDave wrote:
> I am nearly finished with my first wing. It has taken longer than I expected
to reach this point. However, a lot of that time was spent correcting my dumb
mistakes. I figure the second wing will take half the time to complete. These
pictures help illustrate my 3 piece LE skin concept.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> 601XL from plans
> http://www.daves601xl.com
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103173#103173
Message 10
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According to Zenith's documentation, the 601XL has a 6 Gs ULTIMATE
LOAD FACTOR also known as the DESIGN LOAD FACTOR, the point beyond
which structural failure may occur. This load factor is generally
defined as 1.5 times the FLIGHT LOAD FACTOR or LIMIT LOAD FACTOR, the
maximum load the airplane is designed to handle in flight.
The numbers quoted in the POH for the Cessna are FLIGHT LOAD FACTORs.
A certificated aerobatic airplane has a 6 G flight load factor and a
9 G design load factor.
*************
A 601xl is NOT designed for a 6 G FLIGHT LOAD FACTOR, it's designed
for a 4 G FLIGHT LOAD FACTOR.
*************
I keep seeing this same mistake made over and over again my many
people. It's probably because certificated aircraft generally state
the flight load factors in their documentation along with the note
that design load factors are 1.5 times this number while home built
kit manufacturers generally only state the design load factor in
their brochures and websites.
None of this has anything to do with the legality of performing
aerobatic maneuvers. There's no rule that states that an airplane has
to be certified in the aerobatic category to do aerobatic maneuvers
as long as those maneuvers are not specifically prohibited by the Op
Lims and the flight load factor is not exceeded. And in any case, the
aerobatic category has nothing to do with an E-AB airwothiness
certificate. An E-AB is approved for any maneuvers the builder says
it is, with proper logbook entries.
Sec. 91.303
Aerobatic flight.
No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--
(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;
(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;
(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;
(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;
(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or
(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight.
Sec. 23.371
Gyroscopic and aerodynamic loads.
[(a) Each engine mount and its supporting structure must be designed
for the gyroscopic, inertial, and aerodynamic loads that result, with
the engine(s) and propeller(s), if applicable, at maximum continuous
r.p.m., under either:
(1) The conditions prescribed in Sec. 23.351 and Sec. 23.423; or
(2) All possible combinations of the following--
(i) A yaw velocity of 2.5 radians per second;
(ii) A pitch velocity of 1.0 radian per second;
(iii) A normal load factor of 2.5; and
(iv) Maximum continuous thrust.
(b) For airplanes approved for aerobatic maneuvers, each engine mount
and its supporting structure must meet the requirements of paragraph
(a) of this section and be designed to withstand the load factors
expected during combined maximum yaw and pitch velocities.
These are the only FARs I could find that have anything to do with
requirements for aerobatic flight except for a couple that prohibit
aerobatic flight during charity flights by private pilots and one
that states that aerobatic flight is subject to waiver.
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, ashontz wrote:
>
> Just from memory, I thought a regular Cessna 152 was +4 and -3 Gs
> where as an aerobat is +6, -6 Gs, which is the same as a 601Xl, so
> wouldn't that by default qualify a 601XL as an aerobatic plane by
> default? That wouldn't apply to the 701 though.
>
>
> pilot4pay wrote:
>> Juan, this is just not true. The FAA will cite you if you say
>> that, and
>> they know your AC is not an aerobatic aircraft. Heck, they're even
>> searching
>> social security records to link disabilities to pilot medicals! If
>> they will
>> go to those lengths to write a violation and revoke a pilot
>> certificate,
>> don't you think operating an aircraft outside it's operating
>> limitations
>> would be similar? Free speech has nothing to do with it, apples
>> and oranges!
>> If any of the aircraft in the videos is US registered, lets see if
>> someone
>> wants to send it in to the local FSDO, just to see what happens?
>> Craig Smith
>>
>> --
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 11
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I think Zenith charges something on the order of $50USD to transfer the serial
number to your name. Once they do they have a section on the website with the
construction manual. I have recently found out that all the links in for the non-XL
section of 601 website work so you might need to contact Zenith and buy
an updated manual.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103176#103176
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cradle to Grave |
Steve,
Good reply except for the slight jab at the end.
Did you hear about the Marine who had a talking dog. He took it to the local
bar and the dog began to order drinks for the patrons and tell of his
exploits in the Marine Corp. Soon a customer walked up to the Marine and
asked if he would be willing to sell such a fantastic dog to which the
Marine replied, sure, I'll take $5. The customer couldn't believe his ears
and said why are you selling the dog for so little? The Marine said that
the dog was a lying SOB and that the dog was never in the Marines, just the
Navy!
BTW, I wrote my congressmen last week about the increased user fees. Let's
hope that they hear from enough of us to rethink this potential blunder!
Scott Thatcher
601XL with Corvair Power 92% complete
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
>Scott,
>I never said that I did not accept the retirement and associated benefits
>that I earned while giving 20+ years of my life to the service of this
>wonderful country. Fact is, I started as a private and worked my way up to
>Captain before retirement. You are correct, I did not contribute anything
>but sweat to my retirement - along with vastly reduced pay. At retirement I
>was the equivalent to "Faculty Chief" managing an approach control and the
>operations of a mid-sized joint use airport. I made far less than civilians
>make in private industry doing the same work. Anyway, if you think what I
>get in retirement is "from cradle to grave" living, you have a lot to
learn.
>All that does not change my opinion of to much government interference in
>our lives - especially from the FAA. I hope that you are fighting their
>desire to torpedo GA with user fees, increased class B airspace's, useless
>ADIZ in large areas of the country and the rest. Are you even a US citizen?
>Have a great day.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
Message 13
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Chris,
Take the canopy out and allow it to find its own shape. It should still
open up on its own, but
very slowly. Might take a couple of days. Don't refold it after its
been open.
If you provide a serial number, Nick will likely update your plans for a
small amount
and you can get on with building.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote:
>
> Hello Listers,
>
>
> The canopy has been rolled up for ten years, and has sat in a hot shed.
> Here is the question: Has anybody encountered problems with unrolling
> their canopys after a longer period of time?
>
> Also the kit came with a set of plans and a serial number, but no manual
> and the plans are dor the HD model. I hope Zenair will update the plans
> and provide me with a replacement manual, if not I might have to ask you
> guys for help.
>
> Greeting from Perth,
>
> Chris
>
>
Message 14
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There are a few E-LSA 601s out there, but they weren't built from
conforming kits. They were certificated under the "fat ultralight"
provision of the new rules. The "fat ultralight" provision expires at
the end of February of 2008. The standards document for E-LSA
conforming kit manufacturing has only recently been finalized so no
conforming kits for any design have yet been approved. I don't think
Zenith has said whether or not they will produce an E-LSA conforming
kit.
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:09 AM, steveadams wrote:
> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
>
>
> amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> Rick,
>> you can use 601 ELSAs for hire (4profit) up to the end of 2008.
>> New LSA rules allow for it.
>> JUan
>>
>> --
>
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there are any E-LSA
> 601's. A conforming kit has not been approved.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 15
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Thanks for the specifics Brian. That helps clear things up.
I don't intend to do aerobatics myself, but even though the 601 is not designed
as an aerobatic plane, I'd be comfortable doing a loop in one, I just wouldn't
do a loop at Vne.
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103180#103180
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Rudder Design |
I was just talking about this with Geoff Heap on Sunday (I was over his place and
he had his plane out and the tail feathers on, looks good!). We both figured
it wouldn't hurt to put a doubler plate in the lower and of the rudder spar
that spans the distance between the hinge points. As it is those hinge brackets
just rivet directly to the spar web. Considering the picture of the flipped
over airplane, it's strong as it is. Add a double/stiffener plate (say .032) and
you should be golden.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103185#103185
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The big problem with the conforming design E-LSA when effective will be that it
won't allow any deviation from the approved design.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103191#103191
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As I understand it, you have to build it exactly according to the
plans to get the airworthiness certificate, but after that, you can
pretty much do anything you want to it just like you can with E-AB.
I have to correct my earlier post, the "fat
" provision expires at the end of January in 2008, not February.
Regardless of which route you take to get an E-LSA certificate, you
can only rent the plane out to your flight students for the purpose
of flight instruction. After the end of January of 2010 this
provision expires and you won't be able to rent out E-LSAs at all.
Then, the only difference between operating an E-LSA or an E-AB will
be who can do the annual inspections.
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> The big problem with the conforming design E-LSA when effective
> will be that it won't allow any deviation from the approved design.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 19
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Also, in order to make a conforming E-LSA kit the kit manufacturer
must also make S-LSA planes. I don't think ZAC has any such
plans. Perhaps AMD would do that, but I have not heard they have
those intentions. The type of kit envisioned in this E-LSA is more
like the S-LSA than a classic kit. It doesn't have the 51%
requirement and doesn't allow the builder to make ANY modifications
to the design. Still, we can have our kit built planes certified
under the Fat Ultralight provision through January 31, 2008.
The only "For Hire" flight allowed for E-LSA planes I am aware of is
"Instruction". These planes are not eligible for normal "For Hire"
operations such as Air Taxi or Cropdusting or cargo hauling.
The instruction provision is part of the "Bait" to get fat
ultralights registered in the normal system.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:48 AM 3/27/2007, you wrote:
>
>There are a few E-LSA 601s out there, but they weren't built from
>conforming kits. They were certificated under the "fat ultralight"
>provision of the new rules. The "fat ultralight" provision expires at
>the end of February of 2008. The standards document for E-LSA
>conforming kit manufacturing has only recently been finalized so no
>conforming kits for any design have yet been approved. I don't think
>Zenith has said whether or not they will produce an E-LSA conforming
>kit.
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot tube
to the instrument panel of is it one piece?
Thanks
Gary
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets is
also a pretty good option.
I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the
power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103172#103172
---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
Message 21
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I just purchased a 601XL serial number from another builder who decided not to
build. There was no charge from Zenith. I simply had to fill out a couple of forms
and the seller also had to fill out some forms and that was it. Call them.
They are very helpful.
I bought all the newsletters/back issues. While many listers have stated that
they feel they are useful I was not convinced of that. The assembly manual updates
are free from the builders-only accessible pages and there is also a list
showing the current release date for drawings.
I just checked the builders pages and they show that a new set of current drawings
is $50.00 to registered builders.
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
I think Zenith charges something on the order of $50USD to transfer the serial
number to your name. Once they do they have a section on the website with the
construction manual. I have recently found out that all the links in for the non-XL
section of 601 website work so you might need to contact Zenith and buy
an updated manual.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103176#103176
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
Message 22
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> I think Zenith charges something on the order of $50USD to transfer the
serial number to your name.
They didn't charge me anything but then I was standing in the factory in
Mexico, MO.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures |
Hey Andrew,
I don't know about production aircraft, but I know there are other homebuilts built
with multiple leading edge sections. RV's and Bearhawk for example. I got
approval from ZAC before doing this. Also the new ZAC Construction Standards
manual says it is OK to use multiple skins as long as they overlap a rib. I'm
not one of those builders who keeps a log of every hour spent working on my airplane,
so I can't say exactly how long it took. I can say for sure that it was
much quicker and easier to make a 3 piece LE skin than to make the single 12'
piece. It works for me, so I'm happy with it.
Dave Clay
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103215#103215
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures |
Dave,
when you say 'overlap" does that mean that the final skin tha goes on to cover
the fuel tank will cover more than just the hole that we can see (ie. it will
cover the tank plus, or just the ribs on either side of the tank)? If so, you
must have double ribs on either side of the tankto rivet into. If not it'll be
interesting to see how flush you can butt the skins.
Do not archive
TxDave wrote:
> Hey Andrew,
> I don't know about production aircraft, but I know there are other homebuilts
built with multiple leading edge sections. RV's and Bearhawk for example. I got
approval from ZAC before doing this. Also the new ZAC Construction Standards
manual says it is OK to use multiple skins as long as they overlap a rib. I'm
not one of those builders who keeps a log of every hour spent working on my
airplane, so I can't say exactly how long it took. I can say for sure that it
was much quicker and easier to make a 3 piece LE skin than to make the single
12' piece. It works for me, so I'm happy with it.
>
> Dave Clay
> http://www.daves601xl.com
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103219#103219
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| Subject: | Corvair - Dual sparkplugs |
Don't know much about the Corvair other than one is hanging on an engine stand
in my garage. I plan to order WW conversion manul soon. Is there any aftermarket
heads that allow for dual spark plugs?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103220#103220
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| Subject: | fittings, fuel system |
Hello, all
Does anyone know of a web site or document that would help me to select
fittings and other parts to put a fuel system together?
I would prefer no to have a pile of unused parts when I am done...
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! |
Yeah, now that I've read the original e-mail I agree, who is someone else to say
what you can and can't do with your own plane. The past five years as seen more
dangerous activity in the subprime mortgage market than and know one has said
anything about that til recently, and now they're talking about picking everyone's
pocket to pay for stupid people's mistakes. Eff them.
As far as doing a loop in a plane, even if the 601 is not explicitly aerobatic,
there's a big difference between 2.5Gs and 6Gs, or even 4Gs, design load. I'd
imagine the average person would be pretty hard pressed to keep themselves in
a 6G manuever. Most likely you'd get so stressed you'd ease up on the stick on
the stick, and maybe not complete you loop and go into a stall and recover from
that instead. Theoretically, if you do the loop right, it shouldn't be anymore
traumatic than going through a loop on a roller coaster.
But getting back to litigation, should we stop people from riding motorcycles?
How about taking showers, plenty of people fall down in the shower? Then there's
lawn mowers and snowblowers, Dag, you could cut your finger off or throw a
rock through some kids eye with one of them. Here's a classic. Car brakes. You
can go right down to Pep Boys and buy brake pads for your car and change them
yourself, or totally screw up the job yourself. Totally up to you. You can even
go so far as to buy a new master cylinder for your car's brakes and change
that yourself too. OMG, I'm never going to leave the house again.
do not archive
[quote="Michael Valentine"]I have to agree with Brandon on this one - you/we know
nothing about these individuals and the reasons they make the choices they
do. Nor do we know anything about their aerobatic proficiency.
Also, can you direct me to any expressed design limitation that they have exceeded
or provide support for any of your numerous other assertions (bolded below)?
(I personally did not receive any structural analyses or design parameters
from Chris Heintz when I got my kit. One would think that if your various statements
are correct, we would each have received a nice thick booklet on what
we can and cannot do with our planes.)
Each of us who builds the plane is the manufacturer and ultimately responsible
for our own actions. Quite honestly, the attitude evinced in your email below
is of more concern to me than a thousand people looping 601s on YouTube. (Of
course, I know nothing about you and you might be a great and guy and a great
attorney with whom I would happily share a beer. I am merely making my statement
based on how I perceive the tone of your post.) I say this because I think
the attitude shown in your post will lead us to a "nanny-state" where one
is not responsible for his own actions a fair bit faster than the frivolous lawsuits
that will occur when someone loops their 601/701 into a bus full of disabled
school children.
Michael in NH
On 3/25/07, C Smith wrote:
>
> Not to sound like an arm chair attorney, but wouldn't it be prudent to
> determine who the owner/operators are (based on the registration of the
> aircraft) and send them each (via certified mail) a letter of caution.
> Restating the design limitations of the aircraft, and noting that they're
> videos display operation of the aircraft outside of the design limitations,
> that such operation is unsafe to the point of intentional disregard for the
> safety of themselves and others on the ground, that such operation isexpressly
unsanctioned by the designer and manufacturer of the kit , and that
> publicizing such careless behavior may encourage others to attempt similaracts
of negligence , etc.
> Just a thought, in this day and age of "I'm not responsible, go after the
> deep pockets of big companies" litigation, I would be quick to distance
> myself form people who would flagrantly abuse my products in such a fashion.
> Lawyers could argue that the videos were public domain for XX amount of
> time, and that the manufacturer/designer "should have seen/known of the
> activity, and did nothing to inform the operators, and is therefore liable
> for the accident". I've seen far more extreme arguments won in tort cases.
> If you could simply produce the copies of the documents of warning, and
> certified receipts of their mailing, it would be case closed. I would even
> go so far as to send copies of that warning to the aviation administering
> agencies of the registered countries of ownership, informing them of the
> recorded acts of negligence.
> Just my 2 cents. Cheaper to nip it in the bud now, than to pay for it when
> the stupid people end up dead, with next of kin suing in court.
>
> Craig Smith
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103228#103228
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| Subject: | Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
I haven't gotten that far yet. The wings are done and I'm on the fuselage. I just
took the tubing that Zenith sent me and ran half for the pitot and half for
the static. Looking at it it will probably be close and depend on how I have
to route it. It won't surprise me if I have to add more somewhere in the cockpit.
burbby wrote:
> Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot tube
to the instrument panel of is it one piece?
>
> Thanks
> Gary
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets
is also a pretty good option.
>
> I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the
power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" (http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-) at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103237#103237
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs |
Not that I've ever heard of. The WW system uses dual ignition on single plugs.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103238#103238
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| Subject: | Corvair - Dual sparkplugs |
Mark Langford has a set that were probably custom-made:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/twinplugs/
For Corvair-related questions you should subscribe to the CorvAircraft list:
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
To search the list's archives:
http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
I did the same thing, Gig. However, In thinking it through, I decided that I would
go ahead and plumb my pitot & static instruments and run the tubing under
the top longeron to the skin panel that is right beside the pilot's seat. I
will make a hole in the skin large enough for both tubes. When I attach the wings,
I will make a connection just inside the fuselage. It will be behind an
upholstery panel so not vulnerable or in the way.
Jay in Dallas
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>I haven't gotten that far yet. The wings are done and I'm on the fuselage. I just
took the tubing that Zenith sent me and ran half for the pitot and half for
the static. Looking at it it will probably be close and depend on how I have
to route it. It won't surprise me if I have to add more somewhere in the cockpit.
>
>
>burbby wrote:
>> Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot
tube to the instrument panel of is it one piece?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Gary
>
>Gig Giacona wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets
is also a pretty good option.
>>
>> I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to
the power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs.
>>
>> --------
>> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>> 601XL Under Construction
>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online Looking for earth-friendly autos?
>> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" (http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-) at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103237#103237
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs |
And when you go to Mark's page make sure you read the last line on the page.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103249#103249
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| Subject: | Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing |
Sounds like a good idea Jay. I'll probably steal it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103251#103251
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| Subject: | old style 601XL wheel pants |
One more time listers. Any scratch builders or one kit at a time builders out there
interested in an unused set of the old style wheel pants for a 601XL?
All three molded fiberglass pants (packed in three boxes for shipping) plus all
six steel mounting brackets included. Asking $225.00 (half Zenith factory price).
Any reasonable offer would be considered. Can ship via UPS.
Any takers?
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! |
Loops usually incur a maximum of 3-4 Gs (which occurs on loop entry) -- high
entry speed doesn't necessarily mean a high G-factor, unless the pilot
really pulls hard on the stick. This makes a lot of sense, since the
average person blacks out between 4-5 Gs (unless the pilot wears an anti-G
suit to 'squeeze' the blood out of the legs and back to the brain). And,
since people regularly fly loops without anti-G suits (and without blacking
out), common observation demonstrates that loops do not necessarily result
in high G-factors.
Also, at high G-factors, it is very difficult to move body parts -- at 4 Gs,
a 160 lb pilot weighs 640 lbs -- using arms, wrists and hands to further
maneuver the aircraft into a 6G scenario would be quite difficult indeed. I
believe that most people who die in accidents involving high G-factors die
from blacking out (and crashing while blacked out) vice from structural
airframe failure.
In short, the pilot usually reaches his/her 'design limitation' before the
aircraft can reach its.
Bill
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!
Yeah, now that I've read the original e-mail I agree, who is someone else to
say what you can and can't do with your own plane. The past five years as
seen more dangerous activity in the subprime mortgage market than and know
one has said anything about that til recently, and now they're talking about
picking everyone's pocket to pay for stupid people's mistakes. Eff them.
As far as doing a loop in a plane, even if the 601 is not explicitly
aerobatic, there's a big difference between 2.5Gs and 6Gs, or even 4Gs,
design load. I'd imagine the average person would be pretty hard pressed to
keep themselves in a 6G manuever. Most likely you'd get so stressed you'd
ease up on the stick on the stick, and maybe not complete you loop and go
into a stall and recover from that instead. Theoretically, if you do the
loop right, it shouldn't be anymore traumatic than going through a loop on a
roller coaster.
But getting back to litigation, should we stop people from riding
motorcycles? How about taking showers, plenty of people fall down in the
shower? Then there's lawn mowers and snowblowers, Dag, you could cut your
finger off or throw a rock through some kids eye with one of them. Here's a
classic. Car brakes. You can go right down to Pep Boys and buy brake pads
for your car and change them yourself, or totally screw up the job yourself.
Totally up to you. You can even go so far as to buy a new master cylinder
for your car's brakes and change that yourself too. OMG, I'm never going to
leave the house again.
do not archive
[quote="Michael Valentine"]I have to agree with Brandon on this one - you/we
know nothing about these individuals and the reasons they make the choices
they do. Nor do we know anything about their aerobatic proficiency.
Also, can you direct me to any expressed design limitation that they have
exceeded or provide support for any of your numerous other assertions
(bolded below)? (I personally did not receive any structural analyses or
design parameters from Chris Heintz when I got my kit. One would think that
if your various statements are correct, we would each have received a nice
thick booklet on what we can and cannot do with our planes.)
Each of us who builds the plane is the manufacturer and ultimately
responsible for our own actions. Quite honestly, the attitude evinced in
your email below is of more concern to me than a thousand people looping
601s on YouTube. (Of course, I know nothing about you and you might be a
great and guy and a great attorney with whom I would happily share a beer.
I am merely making my statement based on how I perceive the tone of your
post.) I say this because I think the attitude shown in your post will lead
us to a "nanny-state" where one is not responsible for his own actions a
fair bit faster than the frivolous lawsuits that will occur when someone
loops their 601/701 into a bus full of disabled school children.
Michael in NH
On 3/25/07, C Smith wrote:
>
> Not to sound like an arm chair attorney, but wouldn't it be prudent to
> determine who the owner/operators are (based on the registration of the
> aircraft) and send them each (via certified mail) a letter of caution.
> Restating the design limitations of the aircraft, and noting that they're
> videos display operation of the aircraft outside of the design
limitations,
> that such operation is unsafe to the point of intentional disregard for
the
> safety of themselves and others on the ground, that such operation
isexpressly unsanctioned by the designer and manufacturer of the kit , and
that
> publicizing such careless behavior may encourage others to attempt
similaracts of negligence , etc.
> Just a thought, in this day and age of "I'm not responsible, go after the
> deep pockets of big companies" litigation, I would be quick to distance
> myself form people who would flagrantly abuse my products in such a
fashion.
> Lawyers could argue that the videos were public domain for XX amount of
> time, and that the manufacturer/designer "should have seen/known of the
> activity, and did nothing to inform the operators, and is therefore liable
> for the accident". I've seen far more extreme arguments won in tort cases.
> If you could simply produce the copies of the documents of warning, and
> certified receipts of their mailing, it would be case closed. I would even
> go so far as to send copies of that warning to the aviation administering
> agencies of the registered countries of ownership, informing them of the
> recorded acts of negligence.
> Just my 2 cents. Cheaper to nip it in the bud now, than to pay for it when
> the stupid people end up dead, with next of kin suing in court.
>
> Craig Smith
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103228#103228
Message 36
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In a message dated 3/27/2007 8:09:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Just from memory, I thought a regular Cessna 152 was +4 and -3 Gs where as
an aerobat is +6, -6 Gs, which is the same as a 601Xl, so wouldn't that by
default qualify a 601XL as an aerobatic plane by default? That wouldn't apply to
the 701 though.
Why not? The 701 is the same +6 and -3 ultimate load at gross weight.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!! |
William,
You are partly correct. Most people's resting G tolerance is in the 4 range.
"Resting" means that you have no G suit on AND perform no anti-G straining
maneuver. My resting G tolerance when I went through the centrifuge was 4.5
(I am short and stocky). The affects of positive G's are as simple as a pump's
(heart) pressure head. If you are tall and have low blood pressure, you
will more than likely have a low resting G tolerance. This is why on average,
women have a higher resting G tolerance than men (they are typically shorter).
The G-suit only adds about 1 G of additional positive G tolerance. The anti-G
straining maneuver makes up the rest of the difference. In the centrifuge,
we were required to maintain 7.8 G's for 30 seconds. -Something the Hornet
is hardly capable of doing, but... It was painful. The Eagle and Viper guys
have to go to 9 G's. Air show guys hit very high G's, but for a shorter duration
of time. The factors increasing the
possibility of gray out, tunnel vision, or even GLOC (G induced loss of conciousness)
are the amount of G's, G onset rate, and length of time sustained.
I totally agree that entry speed is not a factor, other than the higher
the entry speed, theoretically, the lower the G force required to make it over
the top. In relatively low horsepower and high drag aerobatic aircraft like
the Citabria, 3 - 4 G's is required to make it over the top. The only problem
I had with moving body parts under high G was getting my head turned around while
in a defensive dogfight under high positive G (>6). I would look at the
HUD for whatever information I needed, and get my head looking back prior to pulling
significant G's... High positive G's were even more difficult when wearing
NVG's, but that is another story...
VR/
Brandon
601 HDS / TD / Corvair
80 hours
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
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Chris-
Most of the surface corrosion will only be a problem if you decide to
polish.
Regardless of the plans, research the archives when you find something
out of the ordinary. Don't blindly trust the instructions and build yourself
into a corner. If you can't find anything in the archives, put "HD/HDS
people" in your subject line when you have a question and you'll get an
answer from the few, the proud, the HDS builders!
Good building. Welcome aboard.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: <chrisoz@bmail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Old kit
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I have bought a 601 HDS kit on ebay last month, and this weekend flew to
> the east coast (of Australia) to pick it up. Kind of exciting if you buy
> something unseen (no photos), pay $5000 to a person you don't know and who
> can't tell you much about the kit ( not even the type of 601), but I guess
> one sometimes has to take a leap of faith.
>
> The kit had basically not been touched, except for the rudder which had
> been clecoed together. The kit is 10 years old and has spent the last 8
> years in a shed gathering dust and sustaining a bit of surface corrosion.
> While I initially didn't expect it to be complete to my delight it turned
> out to be, including canopy, long range tanks and even a set of strobes.
> The canopy has been rolled up for ten years, and has sat in a hot shed.
> Here is the question: Has anybody encountered problems with unrolling
> their canopys after a longer period of time?
>
> Also the kit came with a set of plans and a serial number, but no manual
> and the plans are dor the HD model. I hope Zenair will update the plans
> and provide me with a replacement manual, if not I might have to ask you
> guys for help.
>
> Greeting from Perth,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Motor Switch |
I've ordered a 10 amp breaker for my flap circuit,
which is what ZAC calls out on 6-S-2 of the 03/04
version of drawings for the 601XL. I couldn't find a
current draw rating on my flap motor, so I'm not sure
what is required. Does anyone know if there's been a
change in the requirment for the flap motor amperage?
Ron Ellis
Haslet, TX
601XL Jab 3300 Enigma
>Time: 02:54:35 AM PST US
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject:
>Hi James,
>You want a DPDT Momentary switch for this purpose.
>The 601 drawings
>I received from ZAC include a wiring diagram for this
>function. I
>also did one for my own installation that includes a
>15 amp circuit
>breaker (the size recommended by ZAC), the flap
>switch, wiring for
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 40
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| Subject: | Flap Motor Switch |
I measured the steady-state draw of the factory actuator at 3-4 amps with no
mechanical load. I assume there is an initial surge that my meter doesn't
see and that the draw will be higher when actually moving the flaps in
flight.
-- Craig
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs |
Hey Andy;
I am rather new to the Corvair thing myself but if I understand the WW single/dual
setup it should be just fine as he does it.
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
Don't know much about the Corvair other than one is hanging on an engine stand
in my garage. I plan to order WW conversion manul soon. Is there any aftermarket
heads that allow for dual spark plugs?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103220#103220
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures |
The section covering the fuel tank will overlap the others at the flanges of nose
ribs 3 and 4. Butting the skins together is not mentioned in the ZAC Construction
Standards and was never considered. I'm going with the standard tanks.
My sweet wife can't go too long without a pit stop on road trips in the car, so....
do not archive
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103339#103339
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