---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/04/07: 65 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:12 AM - Re: bailing out! (Matt Keyes) 2. 01:17 AM - Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center (Ian McClelland) 3. 04:00 AM - Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center (MacDonald Doug) 4. 04:05 AM - Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center (MacDonald Doug) 5. 05:33 AM - Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Tom Lutz) 6. 06:06 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Aaron Gustafson) 7. 06:17 AM - Re: Round Holes (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 8. 06:17 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (ROBERT SCEPPA) 9. 06:18 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (ROBERT SCEPPA) 10. 06:22 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Tom Lutz) 11. 06:22 AM - Materials List - Empennage (JK) 12. 06:26 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Jim Hoak) 13. 06:49 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Jim Hoak) 14. 07:19 AM - Re: bailing out! (ashontz) 15. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: bailing out! (Bryan Martin) 16. 07:21 AM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (ashontz) 17. 07:28 AM - Re: Bailing out of a 601! (ashontz) 18. 07:50 AM - Remote Fuel Cut Off (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 08:02 AM - Re: Another Build Table (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 20. 08:23 AM - Re: Panel thickness (ashontz) 21. 08:41 AM - Re: Another Build Table (BobTezyk) 22. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Bryan Martin) 23. 09:08 AM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (Gig Giacona) 24. 09:11 AM - Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off (Gig Giacona) 25. 09:49 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Dave Austin) 26. 09:50 AM - Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off (Tim Juhl) 27. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuel tank dip stick (Tim Juhl) 28. 10:12 AM - New HF rivet gun (Brandon Tucker) 29. 10:36 AM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (David Downey) 30. 10:37 AM - Re: New HF rivet gun (Chris Lewis) 31. 11:20 AM - flying the 801 (Keystone Engineering LLC) 32. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: deburing holes (Milburn Reed) 33. 11:43 AM - Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off (ashontz) 34. 11:52 AM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (ashontz) 35. 12:12 PM - Re: Hockey Puck (Zed Smith) 36. 12:31 PM - Sun-N-Fun (ZodieRocket) 37. 12:45 PM - Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off (Tim Juhl) 38. 12:48 PM - Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off (ashontz) 39. 12:51 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601! () 40. 01:15 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Bryan Martin) 41. 01:16 PM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (Gig Giacona) 42. 01:21 PM - Re: Cherokee Six- crash photo (Big Gee) 43. 01:23 PM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (ashontz) 44. 01:26 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Gig Giacona) 45. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank dip stick (Juan Vega) 46. 02:04 PM - Flap Wiring (Lynn & Nancy) 47. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Edward Moody II) 48. 02:30 PM - Re: MVP (Major Visual Progress) (Juan Vega) 49. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: New HF rivet gun (Juan Vega) 50. 03:19 PM - Re: Flap Wiring (Craig Payne) 51. 03:40 PM - Re: Another Build Table (burbby) 52. 04:40 PM - Re:Remote Fuel Cut Off (MaxNr@aol.com) 53. 04:55 PM - Re: Fuel tank dip stick (Tim Juhl) 54. 04:59 PM - Re: Re:Remote Fuel Cut Off (n801bh@netzero.com) 55. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank dip stick (n282rs@satx.rr.com) 56. 05:55 PM - Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement (Ron Lendon) 57. 06:08 PM - Re: Materials List - Empennage (Ron Lendon) 58. 06:11 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Southern Reflections) 59. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Southern Reflections) 60. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Bryan Martin) 61. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank dip stick (Bryan Martin) 62. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Bailing out of a 601! (Southern Reflections) 63. 08:03 PM - Re: Flap Wiring (Lynn & Nancy) 64. 08:13 PM - My 601HD still for sale: Reminder (zodieman) 65. 10:34 PM - First wing complete (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:04 AM PST US From: Matt Keyes Subject: Zenith-List: Re: bailing out! I have had the same thought about egress from a Zodiac in the case of a water landing. Most water ditching in wheeled planes flips the plane upside down. How would someone open the canapy with the full force of water against it after just being turned on one' s head? Who would be willing to wait for the plane to slowly fill with water while sinking to try to get the canapy open. I wonder if a slider mod would solve both questions and be worth the weight and added complications? Matt Keyes --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:36 AM PST US From: "Ian McClelland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center Anyone got the URL for the surplus center? Ian McClelland 601XL Wing construction underway. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:56 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center Again, good points Dino. I'll have to play with the controller once it arrives and make sure I'm not going to induce a safety issue. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario , Canada do no archive --- Dino Bortolin wrote: > You could do that, and if you catch a runaway in > time, you can stop if from > going any further. But you wouldn't be able to bring > it back, unless you put > in another switch to override the controller. At > which point, I think it has > turned the elegantly simple into the overly complex. > But, that's the beauty > of homebuilts - everyone is free to make it any way > that suits them. I still > like a DPDT toggle switch... > > Dino Bortolin > > On 4/3/07, MacDonald Doug > wrote: > > > > > > > Another solution to the position problem would be > to > > install a switch in the power output to the motor > that > > would be used as a system enable. That way if the > > controller did get scrambled, it would be unable > to > > output to the motor. Simply flip the switch on as > > part of your downwind check. > > > > Very good point Dino > > > > Doug MacDonald > > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:41 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center http://www.surpluscenter.com Doug MacDonald This should be committed to the archive --- Ian McClelland wrote: > > > Anyone got the URL for the surplus center? > > Ian McClelland > 601XL > Wing construction underway. > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:26 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:23 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself. I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so far. Aaron Gustafson Soon to take it out for the last time! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:44 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes Hello Tom: You ask an excellent question; I chased this 'problem' as well. I was using quality drill bits and a fast air drill, and my drilled holes were not round either. At least, not 'perfectly' round. I was drilling with a #30 drill bit for the horizontal stabilizer and I wasn't happy with the results until I starting drilling pilot holes with a #40 bit and voila! - ROUND holes !! Fortunately, rivets (when installed properly) expand to fill those irregular holes. For the small drill bits we are using, try to get a small, light, FAST drill motor for best results. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) In a message dated 4/4/2007 7:34:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, tommylutz@gmail.com writes: Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:44 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement > RJS/701 > TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes > being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a > rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you > need to build your project. My garage is only 10' > by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two > sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in > my back yard to store any part of the project till > I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices > and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. > It has to be done. I have known people that have > built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any > questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take > some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not > archive. --- Tom Lutz wrote: > Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: > Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if > examined very closely, > are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by > Zenith and a Dewalt > 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we > learn by asking, right? > > Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? > I'm looking for > clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with > ease. I imagine I'd be > screwed come time for the engine and rudder > attachment, but that's not an > immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement > from outside the house. > The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees > at the bottom, so > obviously that would have to change. I can imagine > getting the wings out of > the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the > fuselage. What size door > would I need? > > Thanks, > Tom > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:28 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement > RJS/701 rjscep@yahoo.com > TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes > being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a > rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you > need to build your project. My garage is only 10' > by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two > sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in > my back yard to store any part of the project till > I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices > and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. > It has to be done. I have known people that have > built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any > questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take > some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not > archive. --- Tom Lutz wrote: > Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: > Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if > examined very closely, > are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by > Zenith and a Dewalt > 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we > learn by asking, right? > > Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? > I'm looking for > clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with > ease. I imagine I'd be > screwed come time for the engine and rudder > attachment, but that's not an > immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement > from outside the house. > The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees > at the bottom, so > obviously that would have to change. I can imagine > getting the wings out of > the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the > fuselage. What size door > would I need? > > Thanks, > Tom > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:46 AM PST US From: "Tom Lutz" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Aaron, Thanks for the informative response. Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did notice that some of the holes were slightly triangular. I guess it's time to look into some contractors that can get the job done without breaking the bank. Tom On 4/4/07, Aaron Gustafson wrote: > > A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped > because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself. > > I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on > putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition > project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat > winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so > far. > > Aaron Gustafson Soon to take it out for the last time! do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tom Lutz > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement > > > Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: > Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, > are not perfectly round? > > Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:52 AM PST US From: "JK" Subject: Zenith-List: Materials List - Empennage I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:58 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Tom, I too used a 110 volt Dewalt to build my 601HD. You are correct on the out-of-round holes. The best way of avoiding this is sharp drill bits, the correct drill speed, correct pressure on the bit and where possible the metal should be backed up when drilling. Thin metal makes this worse too. I built the HD in the basement. Built the entire thing there except I did not rivet ( used many clecoes ) key pieces so that it could be dissasemmbled and it would go out the door. Brought it out through a standard 36" door. The tightest fit was the forward fuselage with the centersection and the firewall attached. Note: if you are building a XL then things will be different ( no center section ). I left the top piece of metal forward of the instrument panel off too, till later. Had to turn it up 90 degrees so the the center section was vertical going through the door. Also had to maneuver the firewall around to get it out. I had left the aft fuselage unriveted at the splice at the aft edge of the cockpit. This allowed the fuselage aft section to be brought out the standard door easily. Also had not riveted the turtle deck pieces till later although all had been drilled and fitted. I transferred i/2 of my work table ( it was made in two joined pieces ) to the garage and did the final assembly there. It took only three of us a couple of hours to do the complete transfer and then have it all set up, clecoed and ready for final riveting in the garage. The main thing was I had measured to be sure this would all work before hand. Good thing it did!! Good luck with yours. do not archive Jim Hoak - 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 541 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:38 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Tom, Forgot one thing about the out-of-round holes. I agree with Aaron about the pilot holes. I too drilled every hole with a #40 bit first and then stepped them up. This is the procedure we teach at the basic sheet metal workshop at Sun N Fun. This is the procedure I have used in doing metal work for many years. It takes more time but produces a better product - usually!! do not archive Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: bailing out! From: "ashontz" More good reasons to go with a gull-wing canopy. [quote="keyesmp(at)yahoo.com"]I have had the same thought about egress from a Zodiac in the case of a water landing. Most water ditching in wheeled planes flips the plane upside down. How would someone open the canapy with the full force of water against it after just being turned on one' s head? Who would be willing to wait for the plane to slowly fill with water while sinking to try to get the canapy open. I wonder if a slider mod would solve both questions and be worth the weight and added complications? Matt Keyes 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&#news) in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&#news) > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104866#104866 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:18 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: bailing out! http://www.equipped.org/ditchingmyths.htm According to this article, there's no evidence that most wheeled aircraft flip over during a ditching. In any case, the canopy latch should be released before impact. As long as the airplane is moving through the air, the canopy will not close on it's own. I suspect that the impact with the water will cause the canopy to flip wide open if it's already unlatched. I also carry a tool in the cabin that I can use to break the canopy to escape, just in case. The article also states that the successful egress rate is over 90% for small aircraft ditchings. Getting out of the airplane is one thing, surviving in the water afterwards is another. On Apr 4, 2007, at 4:10 AM, Matt Keyes wrote: > I have had the same thought about egress from a Zodiac in the case > of a water landing. Most water ditching in wheeled planes flips > the plane upside down. How would someone open the canapy with the > full force of water against it after just being turned on one' s > head? Who would be willing to wait for the plane to slowly fill > with water while sinking to try to get the canapy open. I wonder > if a slider mod would solve both questions and be worth the weight > and added complications? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "ashontz" Sounds like you need to just start building instead of over thinking it. It's about $400 worth of materials I'd say to build the stabilizer, elevator, and rudder. [quote="jk(at)amplebyte.com"]I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104867#104867 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! From: "ashontz" I'd imagine the bubble canopy would be pretty damn hard to open in flight considering fighter planes have the canopy hinge on the back to allow the canopy to go sailing back into the breeze when the guy jettisons. You'd think the canopy would have lift and would want to rise up on the front hinge, but it's probably counter-intutive (to a pilot anyway) and gets push down instead. More reasons for a gull wing door with break-away hinges, just pull the hinge pin with a big loop on the end and you're out. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104871#104871 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:45 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Remote Fuel Cut Off All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I heard many years ago. It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage. The discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita. Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks? This would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations. Paul XL fuselage - ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:29 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another Build Table Hello Bob: That is quite a work table !!! I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so hefty and stout..... ....oh wait !! I think I see the prototype of your table in the bottom of pic here... (scroll down.....) Just Kidding !!!! That's a great looking table frame !!!! Good work !!! Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT Definitely Do Not Archive !!!! In a message dated 4/3/2007 11:50:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, bob@eaglesnestestates.org writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" Good day all, Here are pictures of my finished table less wood top and paint. It is made out of 1.5 in steel tube and turned out level, flat and true. I finally settled on a leg socket arrangement made up of 1.5 in square tube 4 in long with two 6 in long 1.5 in angle iron welded to it. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Panel thickness From: "ashontz" Gig Giacona wrote: > Obviously most agree that .025 is too flimsy. > > If you use .063 material for the panel and a couple of vertical stiffeners behnd the panel between instruments it'll be okay. > > I used half-by-half aluminum angle (1/8" thickness) riveted with A5s from the front. Looks okay. > There were a couple of places where the angle is cut out a bit to clear instruments. The verticals are mounted about 1/3 distance from each side, instrument size and layout dictating actual brace location. The instrument holes were punched with appropriately-sized Greenlee punches. Put the big half of the punch on the back side for this, otherwise you'll have tool marks on the front that even crackle paint may not hide. > > Bent the bottom flange 2" in a brake, cut the top edge rounded per plans, then had a professional welder TIG a 2-inch-wide strip of .063 across the top. The wider flange & top shouldn't interfere with other items but does add some resistance to wayward knees at the bottom. > > With the holes cut and vertical braces in place there was no flexing. Once mounted in the airframe it is solid and instruments don't sag from their own weight. > > If I had it to do again I might build a "frame" only and mount it, then make the flat panel with stiffeners to attach to the frame with Cam Locks or a hinge or chewing gum or something. Attachment points would eat up some panel space. > > Regards to all, > > Zed/701/912/BR549/etc > > Why in God's name would you not want that archived? You don't have to answer it is now. I thought about that too. Seems like a good idea to be able to pull the entire panel out if need be, kind of like the old Navy and NASA rocket launch panels you'd see the Apollo launch personell holding onto those hand grips while fretting over Apollo 13. Those weren't 'oh shit' bars, they were there so that a technician could undo a few screws and pull the whole panel out for service. Seems like a nice feature to have in a small plane instead of hanging upside down trying to do wiring and whatnot. do not archive -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104880#104880 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Another Build Table From: "BobTezyk" Tracy, Your right! I modified the blueprints from a Liberty Ship! I knew I was going to take a ribbing for the overkill factor but that's OK. I'm tough. I can take it. I'll just sit in the corner chewing nails and spitting out battleships. Do not archive -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104885#104885 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:28 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! The canopy will open in flight but not very far. I have had one side come loose in flight a few times due to not fully latching it before take-off and it's difficult, if not impossible to re-latch it in flight. It does want to lift up away from the rail. I believe someone reported on this list that they unlatched the canopy in flight once and it opened several inches and stayed there and caused no serious problem. On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:28 AM, ashontz wrote: > > I'd imagine the bubble canopy would be pretty damn hard to open in > flight considering fighter planes have the canopy hinge on the back > to allow the canopy to go sailing back into the breeze when the guy > jettisons. You'd think the canopy would have lift and would want to > rise up on the front hinge, but it's probably counter-intutive (to > a pilot anyway) and gets push down instead. More reasons for a gull > wing door with break-away hinges, just pull the hinge pin with a > big loop on the end and you're out. > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "Gig Giacona" What you are looking for should be right here. http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm And no he's not over thinking he was just asking for a list of materials. That said if you aren't experienced in this kind of thing I'd strongly suggest you go to the factory workshop. Details are at the Zenith site. [quote="jk(at)amplebyte.com"]I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104892#104892 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off From: "Gig Giacona" I geuss you could add a couple of cut off valves where the fuel lines come into the fueselage. p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote: > All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I > heard many years ago. It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection > that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage. The > discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in > fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita. > > Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks? This > would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations. > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > - -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104893#104893 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:47 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Tom, You can build the fuselage in sections using clecos, then dissemble and take out to the garage for assembly and rivetting, which is what I did. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off From: "Tim Juhl" If the wings separate from the aircraft the only risk of fire comes from the fuel remaining in the lines within the fuselage :-) In my years chasing missing airplanes for the CAP the only accidents I remember where there was a post crash fire were ones where the occupants did not survive the impact. If you can maintain control of your aircraft until control is taken away from you there is a good chance that you will survive. Shedding wings and other pieces during a forced landing in rough terrain can actually help reduce the crash forces. Shutting off fuel and electrics prior to impact can help as well. I've attached a pix of a cherokee six that crashed recently in northern Michigan. All survived albeit with injuries. The pilot put it into the woods after the engine lost power.... he used his cell phone to direct rescuers to his location. Fly safe! Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104908#104908 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/crash1_187.jpg ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick From: "Tim Juhl" Being an old chemistry teacher I modeled my dipstick on a measuring pipette. I purchased a couple of feet of rigid plastic tubing from aircraft spruce (you need enough to reach the bottom of the tank and grip at the top.) I added fuel until there was enough to show in the bottom of the tube (whole gallons, not fractions) noted the amount and marked the tube with a scratch (used a triangular file.) From there I added fuel a gallon at a time and marked the stick at each gallon until full. For those who have not used a pipette, you insert the tube, cover the top hole with your finger and lift the tube out. The fuel will remain in the tube long enough for you to get a reading. A 1/8th inch center opening works best - see http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/acryltube.php To finish the job I used a tubing cutter to score a shallow ring around the tube at each mark. I then used a cheap vibrating engraver to mark the gallons next to each line. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104913#104913 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:13 AM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: New HF rivet gun Gents, Has anyone tried this rivet gun yet? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search My $39 HF gun built the entire plane, and is still working great. It is a little heavy, but not too bad. If this one is durable enough, it might be a good buy R/ Brandon Tucker 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 80 hours --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:22 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement the other thing you can do is drill with 1/8" then final drill with #30 (or 5/32 followed by #20 or #21 (whichever it is!)). You will find that the bur generated is minor and the circularity of the holes is much better - just make sure that you indeed do drill to size before installing the rivets or they will weaker than design. That is why the common practice is to use 3/32 then #30 - the size error is obvious. Tom Lutz wrote: Aaron, Thanks for the informative response. Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I did notice that some of the holes were slightly triangular. I guess it's time to look into some contractors that can get the job done without breaking the bank. Tom On 4/4/07, Aaron Gustafson wrote: A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself. I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so far. Aaron Gustafson Soon to take it out for the last time! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New HF rivet gun From: "Chris Lewis" Try this link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber-173 Looks interesting to me. I have the "old" HF unit and it works great, but lighter weight would ne nice. Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104921#104921 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:33 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: flying the 801 Kathy and Jeff Here is a letter I wrote a couple of years ago. It is as true now as it was them. If you would like a couple of hours in a 801 come on up and I would be happy to give you a ride. Pay special attention to the no flaps in a cross wind!!!! This will get you in trouble fast! Bill I'm really enjoying the 801. I'm have been thinking of writing a lessons learned article this winter. The 801 jumps into the air! I'm very pleased with that. Even at gross it doesn't seem like you are driving a truck trying to take off. Most of my experience is in a PA22 and PA20. When they get heavy they take forever to get into the air! I have not nicked my prop. The ground clearance is incredible! In Alaska you are required by law and good sense to carry survival gear. My sleeping bags and dried food are behind the back seat on the sides of the control tunnel. It is a perfect extended baggage for light stuff. It is accessible from the access panel in the bottom. I did the no slot modification that Jim Frisby and Ben Hass put together. Ben sent me the parts; it was simple and better than the factory instructions. I really like the thought of not having a slot to accumulate snow and slush in the controls. Things I wish were different: All the air goes over the wing. It is a rough ride in turbulence! Realize I live in a mountainous area. The "bowl" is 4 miles by 10 miles with 6000' mountains on all sides. And the wind blows. The only other thing I have is, I like going to the beaches. You cannot raise the nose with power. You need to be going 35-40 mph before the nose comes up. When it does come up you are flying. I'm planning on building and installing the wider tail this winter. I made and installed VGs last weekend and perhaps they were not big enough or aggressive enough but they did not help enough to justify flying the 5 hours off. The VG are now on and will remain on the horizontal tail. I highly recommend you install VGs on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer. The VGs made a lot more difference than the larger horizontal stabilizer kit from ZAC. When you land on a beach that is too soft, conventional wisdom says, fire wall it and suck the stick back. You will either end up in the air or stopped on the very soft beach right side up at full power. I don't know if the 801's elevator is effective enough at slow speeds to keep the nose up until you get stopped. Thank goodness I have not gone on that soft of a beach this summer... hopefully I never will again. I bent the main gear last year after hitting a rock taking off a soft beach last year. Lessons learned: It is a rudder airplane! You cannot have lazy feet! Step on the ball! I almost got caught a couple of times before I quit using flaps in a cross wind. At slow speeds with full flaps the adverse yaw is significant and the effectiveness of the flaperons diminishes! I almost had a whole bunch of AL parts littering the beach figuring this out. It was one of those, "there I was" 10' in the air with full elevator, full rudder and full flaperon deflection and...!... I came around the next time without flaps and landed with no problem. A 10 mph cross wind is not a big deal at 60 knots or 70 mph but at 40 mph it is a big deal! I had problems with the tires. I up sized to 8.50x6.00 tire and I finally drilled a new hole in the rim and put in standard tubes. No problem since then. The airframe is bullet proof. I have done 4 condition inspections. No significant problems. Although cylinder number 2 uses a little oil ;+}. Well I changed out cylinder 2 and 3 about 100 hrs ago, because of oil usage. I have had problem with the flaperon rods rubbing under the back seat and one fuel tank leak... other than that, any problems I have had have been attributable to operator error. The airframe oil cans when you go slow. It is kind of a stall warning. I installed weather stripping Xs to reduce the oil canning. I may replace them with standard Ls this winter. Since I rarely do stalls, I still have the weather stripping in place. My empty weight came in at 1175 re-weighted to 1200 lbs. I have a minimal VFR panel. I am very happy with the weight. You can get out of CG rearward. When you get heavy put the big guys in the front. Don't expect big climb rates when you get heavy. When light the CG is too far forward so put the guns and survival gear in the baggage area. The right hand stick and left hand throttle takes a little getting use to. The 801 meets and exceed the 3 requirements I had for my plane; 4 seats, cruise at 100 (Now about 115) mph and get out short! You are talking to one happy camper. It would be interesting to hear from Ben or anyone else who has quite a few hours in the 801 about their experiences! I assume you have read about my recent removal of the slats, the addition of VGs and subsequent increase in speed. I also installed the lift strut fairing kit this winter. I have not flown enough to come up with firm speeds yet. The plane is faster. My guess is 115 mph at 10.5 gph or 103 mph at 7.8 gph. An increase of 12 mph which is 12% at cruise is significant! I am looking forward to the Valdez May Day Fly-in and Air Show. I plan on getting my take-off and landing distances measured with and without leading edge slats. I will see if I can beat my 114' take off distance from last year. Bill Wilcox Valdez, AK N801BW 285 hours ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:42 AM PST US From: "Milburn Reed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes Using a metal abrasive wheel cut off saw, I shorten a drill as needed and use in some tight places. Apply friction tape. Will now cut up a file, sounds like a good idea. What's a hocky puck? Sorry aboot that. Mil ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off From: "ashontz" How the hell did they survive that? do not archive Tim Juhl wrote: > If the wings separate from the aircraft the only risk of fire comes from the fuel remaining in the lines within the fuselage :-) In my years chasing missing airplanes for the CAP the only accidents I remember where there was a post crash fire were ones where the occupants did not survive the impact. If you can maintain control of your aircraft until control is taken away from you there is a good chance that you will survive. Shedding wings and other pieces during a forced landing in rough terrain can actually help reduce the crash forces. Shutting off fuel and electrics prior to impact can help as well. > > I've attached a pix of a cherokee six that crashed recently in northern Michigan. All survived albeit with injuries. The pilot put it into the woods after the engine lost power.... he used his cell phone to direct rescuers to his location. > > Fly safe! > > Tim -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104936#104936 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "ashontz" Figured maybe he was over thinking it because I did the same thing, then just decided to go for it. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104938#104938 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:29 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: Hockey Puck Milburn, A Hockey Puck is a device employed by those who desire to avoid dentists in later life. I have a Canadian sister-in-law who says there was one boy in her school who had a front tooth. It's a slow day. do not archive Zed ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:30 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Well 2 Root canals and restorative dental surgery, as I look out the window and see that I=92m in the middle of a snow blizzard ! I have to tell you all that I=92m in a great mood! The Sun-N-Fun Webmaster BBQ on Thursday April 19th 5pm ' 8pm is gaining unprecedented momentum, we are now at over 160 people pre-registered ! This is just incredible ! I will be finalizing the name tags soon and hope that anyone who was sitting on the fence is able to go to HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org or HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/"www.ch701.com and fill in the online form. Remember folks this is your ticket for the food! This year we are going to setup a little differently, we are located in the campground at the same location as last year but this time we will have a table at the front of the event where all the name tags will be located. Your ticket Table will be hosted by Ramelle Bintz . Ramelle will be there to help you get your nametag, also new for this year we have donations to raffle off. The grand raffle is a Cummings Spinner, custom made for your plane and prop, kindly donated by Allan at Cummings Spinners in Australia. Next, I would really like to note that once again we have sponsors that have really stepped up. Though I ask for donations to help out with the food at the event and I put every cent back into the BBQ or to the next BBQ. IT would not be possible without the help of our sponsors! I wish to THANK the great generosity of USA William Wynne FlyCorvair.com HYPERLINK "http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm"Flight Crafters Jabiru USA, William Wynne, Quality Sport Planes, Flight Crafters, Homebuilthelp.com are all businesses that contribute to this event this year. With that we are able to offer the kind of event that goes far beyond the simple burger on a bun! This year like last year we will have burgers, dogs, corn and wings. I will also be getting more pop, salads and dessert this year, we ran a little short last year. So All in ALL we are on target for the largest event yet! And the largest Zenith Owners and Builders gathering ever! IF your not registered do you really want to miss out on something this big? Come on Sun-N-Fun is a great place to be!!! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off From: "Tim Juhl" They clipped the treetops on the way in which slowed them down a bit. The engine separated from the fuselage although it rests only a few feet away from it. The left side of the aircraft was opened up with the jaws of life so it was more intact when it came to rest. What's really incredible is the condition of the cockpit (see attachment.) There were 4 souls on board and they waited about 3 hours for rescue. Tim BTW - I'm not trying to offend anyone with this discussion or photos. I was involved with search and rescue for 25 years and have been an instructor for almost as long. I try to learn from such tragedies and share the lessons in the hope that others may be spared a similar fate. Personally, I've had more close calls on the highway than in the air. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104953#104953 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/crash3_266.jpg ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off From: "ashontz" Ugh! How many broken limbs, particularly legs? That sounds ugly. Good thing it didn't burst into flames. Bad enough you're stuck in there, worse you're stuck in there on fire. People freak out over stuff like this, but it could just as easily happen in a car, maybe not the crashing through the treetops part, but being stuck in a burning car. do not archive Tim Juhl wrote: > They clipped the treetops on the way in which slowed them down a bit. The engine separated from the fuselage although it rests only a few feet away from it. The left side of the aircraft was opened up with the jaws of life so it was more intact when it came to rest. What's really incredible is the condition of the cockpit (see attachment.) There were 4 souls on board and they waited about 3 hours for rescue. > > Tim > > BTW - I'm not trying to offend anyone with this discussion or photos. I was involved with search and rescue for 25 years and have been an instructor for almost as long. I try to learn from such tragedies and share the lessons in the hope that others may be spared a similar fate. Personally, I've had more close calls on the highway than in the air. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104954#104954 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:39 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the canopy hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown to keep them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the bolts and let the canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, though, you wouldn't need a light holddown. You'd probably generate a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute would be better) Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair (*&^%$# canopy! ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! > My friend Lee had a Cessna 150 Aerobat and I can remember seeing some sort of quick release door handle on the inside that would remove the door from the hinges in flight to make it easier for a parachute jump. What in the world would you do in a 601 XL if you had to bail out in a hurry? Has anyone ever bailed out of a 601? I remember going up with Lee and betting him a steak dinner that he couldn't make me sick. I wound up treating at Ponderosa that night. I don't know much about the legality of aerobatics because I like to fly almost straight and level, but for the guys who like that kind of flying would it be worth it to figure out some kind of a hinge pin system that would release the canopy from it's hinges in case a bail out was needed? Do the FAR's require a parachute when doing aerobatics? I have nothing against that kind of flying, but life is too great and too short to take unnecessary chances. Joe in Oshkosh 601XL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:56 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! You'd also need to rig some way to release the gas shocks. You'd also need to bolt something to the fuselage above the instrument pane to deflect the canopy upward so it won't take your head off on its way overboard. You could always build an open cockpit version, then it would be easy to get out. :) On Apr 4, 2007, at 3:51 PM, wrote: > Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the > canopy hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown > to keep them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the > bolts and let the canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, > though, you wouldn't need a light holddown. You'd probably generate > a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute would be better) -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "Gig Giacona" Well if he is just thinking about it I applaud him. Building an aircraft is not something that should be taken lightly or without a lot of thought. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104959#104959 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:31 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cherokee Six- crash photo the difference between aluminum (absorbing the energy from the crash) and composite (breaking like an egg shell) Fritz--------- do not archive ashontz wrote: How the hell did they survive that? do not archive Tim Juhl wrote: > If the wings separate from the aircraft the only risk of fire comes from the fuel remaining in the lines within the fuselage :-) In my years chasing missing airplanes for the CAP the only accidents I remember where there was a post crash fire were ones where the occupants did not survive the impact. If you can maintain control of your aircraft until control is taken away from you there is a good chance that you will survive. Shedding wings and other pieces during a forced landing in rough terrain can actually help reduce the crash forces. Shutting off fuel and electrics prior to impact can help as well. > > I've attached a pix of a cherokee six that crashed recently in northern Michigan. All survived albeit with injuries. The pilot put it into the woods after the engine lost power.... he used his cell phone to direct rescuers to his location. > > Fly safe! > > Tim -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104936#104936 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "ashontz" Gig Giacona wrote: > Well if he is just thinking about it I applaud him. Building an aircraft is not something that should be taken lightly or without a lot of thought. I agree, but he said he's been thinking for years. I feel like I wasted a lot of time just thinking when I should have just went ahead and did it. The questions answer themselves over time. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104961#104961 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:31 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! From: "Gig Giacona" Don't forget there are the hold open pistons there as well. And they'd have to release. I saw a picture somewhere of Van's RV12 test plane and there was a canopy ejection handle. I doubt it will be there on the final design but it was there for the tests. I'm not a fan of BRS. Many if not most of the times they would be of use the aircraft could be landed without them. Look at the accident database and figure how many of the fatal 601 accidents would have not have been fatal with a BRS. I think you'd find that it isn't that large a number. > Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the canopy hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown to keep them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the bolts and let the canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, though, you wouldn't need a light holddown. You'd probably generate a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute would be better) > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104963#104963 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:32 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick Tim, great Idea, the SUperhawk tank guages are high grade PVC with numbers marking that are fuel proof. Its a pipette with markings and its only $5.00 i think. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Tim Juhl >Sent: Apr 4, 2007 1:10 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick > > >Being an old chemistry teacher I modeled my dipstick on a measuring pipette. I purchased a couple of feet of rigid plastic tubing from aircraft spruce (you need enough to reach the bottom of the tank and grip at the top.) I added fuel until there was enough to show in the bottom of the tube (whole gallons, not fractions) noted the amount and marked the tube with a scratch (used a triangular file.) From there I added fuel a gallon at a time and marked the stick at each gallon until full. For those who have not used a pipette, you insert the tube, cover the top hole with your finger and lift the tube out. The fuel will remain in the tube long enough for you to get a reading. A 1/8th inch center opening works best - see http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/acryltube.php > >To finish the job I used a tubing cutter to score a shallow ring around the tube at each mark. I then used a cheap vibrating engraver to mark the gallons next to each line. > >Tim > >-------- >DO NOT ARCHIVE >______________ >CFII >Champ L16A flying >Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A >Working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104913#104913 > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:15 PM PST US From: "Lynn & Nancy" Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Wiring Can anyone advise me as to appropriate wire and guage for the flap motor wiring? Looks like four conductors are required. Do they all need to be heavy enough for the motor draw, or just two of them? Would it be criminal to use trailer wiring cable? Lynn 601XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:16 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! I don't have extensive experience with Vans aircraft but the two RV7-As that I have been in and around both have canopy relase mechanisms. I don't think it is a feature limited to testing prototypes. The release is a T handle that when pulled works a set of levers which pull the canopy release pins inward. I'm not sure but I think that the entire canopy hinge assembly leaves as a unit, gas lift struts and all. I can check it out and report back if the listers feel it is important. My feeling is to go with what CH designed and use either a rock hammer as suggested or carry one of those auto escape tools which combine a seat bemt cutter and a window smashing hammer. An amature designed canopy release would make the designer the pioneer and history shows that pioneers get all the arrows. Oh yeah, and I hope the det cord suggestion was just graveyard humor. Dred Don't forget there are the hold open pistons there as well. And they'd have to release. I saw a picture somewhere of Van's RV12 test plane and there was a canopy ejection handle. I doubt it will be there on the final design but it was there for the tests. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:53 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MVP (Major Visual Progress) ARGHHHH! I AM BLINDED BY THE SHINYNESS!, LET ME SEND YOU SOME TYLENOL,THAT IS SOME SERIOUS ELBOW GREESE!! GREAT JOB! jUAN -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Schoenberger >Sent: Apr 3, 2007 8:13 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MVP (Major Visual Progress) > > >Scott . . . I am totally impressed with your plane. It's almost too >nice to fly! Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive > >Scott Laughlin wrote: >> >> >> Hi Guys: >> >> Having completed my latest batch of LRI probes and mailed them all out >> (thanks to all the buyers), I got back to work on the 601. See the >> picture below for some Major Visual Progress. I've burned through my >> second can of Nuvite F9 and still have one wing to polish. >> >> Enjoy: >> >> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/web/4_2_07_Left_Wing.JPG >> >> Scott Laughlin >> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. >> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:44 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New HF rivet gun pilotmall.com has some great dipsaticks that you can buy and calibrate for the 601 tanks. juan -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lewis >Sent: Apr 4, 2007 1:36 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New HF rivet gun > > >Try this link: > >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber-173 > >Looks interesting to me. I have the "old" HF unit and it works great, but lighter weight would ne nice. > >Chris in Seattle > >-------- >701 Scratch Builder > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104921#104921 > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:18 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Wiring If this is for an XL then 6-B-20 (Date 06/03) shows that all 4 wires carry the full current. I've measure a steady-state current draw of about 4 amps. For that current over a rough length of 7-10 feet 18 gauge would be a suitable size: www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm Generally Tefzel wire is recommended in aircraft. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:10 PM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another Build Table That should be strong enough. That is the way I like to do things also. Good job!! Good day all, Here are pictures of my finished table less wood top and paint. It is made out of 1.5 in steel tube and turned out level, flat and true. I finally settled on a leg socket arrangement made up of 1.5 in square tube 4 in long with two 6 in long 1.5 in angle iron welded to it. The sockets are slightly tapered to account slight misalignments of the top and bottom socket. To accomplish this, I built a shim out of a piece of scrap square tube and welded one spot on each side. This was placed in the top of the socket during welding and knocked out upon completion. The taper allows for the slight misallignment of the top and bottom sockets and for the tubes to slide in and out easily. I can change the height of the table by simply cutting new verticals. The minimum height for the table is 16 in for fuselage work. One of my neighbors pointed out that I could remove the top and build arms for the base that fit the sockets to create a rotisserie for painting. Another neighbor suggested that I get 6 more nuts to lock the jack screws in place so they do not creep. Yes, it is overkill but it sure was fun to build. It is an alternative for those who do not find working with wood fun. The project was something of a Tom Sawyer adventure. Two of my neighbors learned how to wire weld on it. That is why many of the welds are sloppy. -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104823#104823 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable11_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable09_172.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable06_373.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable05_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable04_768.jpg --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:09 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Remote Fuel Cut Off What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They were beginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helicopters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck under the engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a supplier? They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar to slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exhaust and boom. Another good practice is to put a loop of extra flexible fuel line at the point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can break and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method. Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in crash survival design at Arizona State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Robertson?)was #2 man in the dept. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopter auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks still sells to the Gvt and industry. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero. Bob from Pace,Fl ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick From: "Tim Juhl" I had a commercially made dipstick for my 182 - the one I made cost less than a buck and does not require a conversion chart - it reads the gallons direct. A trick I used when marking my stick..... I slipped a tight fitting "o" ring over the tube. After the first read I slid the "o" ring to where I thought the fuel level came. On second try I'd see how close I'd come. It might take a few adjustments but you can come pretty close when it comes to determining where to put the marks. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105011#105011 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:16 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Remote Fuel Cut Off This same concept has been in use on indy style and other types of racin g cars for years. It is called a "dry break". When cars hit the wall or other cars the fuel lines will disconnect and the car sheds their outer componants to absorb energy. I am sure there are several vendors that ca rry these things. Try Earls performance fittings, or any number of other racing wharehouses. They are not that expensive either. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- MaxNr@aol.com wrote: What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They were be ginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helic opters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck under t he engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a supplier? They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar t o slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exhaust and boo m. Another good practice is to put a loop of extra flexible fuel line at th e point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can b reak and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method. Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in crash survival design at Arizo na State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Robertson?)was #2 man in the de pt. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopte r auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks still sells to the Gvt and indus try. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero. Bob from Pace,Fl ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ========================

This same concept has been in use on indy style and other types of racing cars for years. It is called a "dry break". When cars&nb sp;hit the wall or other cars the fuel lines will disconnect and the car sheds their outer componants to absorb energy. I am sure there are several vendors that carry these things. Try Earls performance fittings , or any number of other racing wharehouses. They are not that expensive either.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- MaxNr@aol.com wrote:
What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They we re beginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helicopters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck un der the engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a suppli er?

They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar to slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exha ust and boom.

Another good practice is to put a loop of extra fl exible fuel line at the point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can break and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method.

Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in cras h survival design at Arizona State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Rober tson?)was #2 man in the dept. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopter auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks st ill sells to the Gvt and industry. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero.

Bob fr om Pace,Fl 


************************************ **
See what's free at http://www.aol.com. 



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tronics.com
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________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick From: n282rs@satx.rr.com I just use a wooden paint paddle that I picked up a Home Depot and Aircraft Supply. Paint it and mark it with a Sharpie. If you drop your pipette in the tank, it will roll to the lowest end of the tank. If you drop my wooden paddle, it will float near the filler neck. Don't ask how I know this. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 -----Original Message----- From: Tim Juhl To:zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick I had a commercially made dipstick for my 182 - the one I made cost less than a buck and does not require a conversion chart - it reads the gallons direct. A trick I used when marking my stick..... I slipped a tight fitting "o" ring over the tube. After the first read I slid the "o" ring to where I thought the fuel level came. On second try I'd see how close I'd come. It might take a few adjustments but you can come pretty close when it comes to determining where to put the marks. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105011#105011 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement From: "Ron Lendon" I am using an old 110v ac 2500 rpm Black & Decker 1/4" drill motor that I got from my father. The high rpm's and starting with a small pilot and stepping up in size 2 to 3 times will produce the roundest holes. I was going to get an air drill but this is really quieter and more practical. Don't know about the basement, but I am thinking of setting up some equipment down there. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105020#105020 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Materials List - Empennage From: "Ron Lendon" Welcome aboard, The materials list at ch601.org will get you going. I am using it as I go along as a check list. It only took me one flight in one of these things to get me started. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105021#105021 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:53 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! Don't forget "while it's on the way back to knock the tail off", and don't forget all that air that going to ram into that luggage shelf behind you with no windshield to deflect the wind. I think we should forget this bailing out thing, and move on to something that will work and a lot more sensible, A $100.000 dollar ejection seat from the Navy.I 'am almost sure we could get a good price if we buy 10 at a time.Who's up for that? Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! > > You'd also need to rig some way to release the gas shocks. You'd also > need to bolt something to the fuselage above the instrument pane to > deflect the canopy upward so it won't take your head off on its way > overboard. You could always build an open cockpit version, then it would > be easy to get out. :) > > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 3:51 PM, wrote: > >> Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the canopy >> hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown to keep >> them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the bolts and let the >> canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, though, you wouldn't need a >> light holddown. You'd probably generate a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute >> would be better) > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:53 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! Good way to let smoke out.. Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! > > The canopy will open in flight but not very far. I have had one side come > loose in flight a few times due to not fully latching it before take-off > and it's difficult, if not impossible to re-latch it in flight. It does > want to lift up away from the rail. I believe someone reported on this > list that they unlatched the canopy in flight once and it opened several > inches and stayed there and caused no serious problem. > On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:28 AM, ashontz wrote: > >> >> I'd imagine the bubble canopy would be pretty damn hard to open in >> flight considering fighter planes have the canopy hinge on the back to >> allow the canopy to go sailing back into the breeze when the guy >> jettisons. You'd think the canopy would have lift and would want to rise >> up on the front hinge, but it's probably counter-intutive (to a pilot >> anyway) and gets push down instead. More reasons for a gull wing door >> with break-away hinges, just pull the hinge pin with a big loop on the >> end and you're out. >> >> -------- >> Andy Shontz >> CH601XL - Corvair >> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:42 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! Most of Vans aircraft are designed for aerobatics and many of them are often flown aerobatically. The 601 is not designed for much in the way of aerobatics. The ability to bail out easily is more of an issue for an aerobatic airplane than for the 601. I'm more concerned with getting out of the plane on the ground if I happen to wind up off airport somewhere belly up. I found a multi- purpose tool at Harbor Freight that has a hatchet blade on one side, a hammer on the other and a nail puller claw sticking out the end. It's heavy enough to break through the canopy and the claw could be used as a make-shift shovel to dig out with. Its actually been much handier to have around than a rock hammer, I've used it several times to drive my tie down stakes and once used it to dig the packed in soil out of the padeyes at Bacon County airport so I could use them to tie down on my way to Sun'N'Fun. And I can cut up firewood at my campsite with it too. I'm not sure one of those automotive escape tools would do so well on plexiglas. They are designed to shatter safety glass and do a good job at that but they don't seem heavy enough to do a decent job on plexiglas. Yes, the det cord remark was intended as humor. :) On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Edward Moody II wrote: > I don't have extensive experience with Vans aircraft but the two > RV7-As that I have been in and around both have canopy relase > mechanisms. I don't think it is a feature limited to testing > prototypes. > > My feeling is to go with what CH designed and use either a rock > hammer as suggested or carry one of those auto escape tools which > combine a seat bemt cutter and a window smashing hammer. > > Oh yeah, and I hope the det cord suggestion was just graveyard humor. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:52 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tank dip stick I've had two of those clear plastic fuel gauges from Sportys. The first one started developing cracks across the width of the plastic and finally fell apart. The second one is showing the same cracks. I don't know if the are adversely reacting to auto fuel or what. I guess I'll have to make another wooden dipstick. On Apr 4, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Juan Vega wrote: > > > Tim, > > great Idea, the SUperhawk tank guages are high grade PVC with > numbers marking that are fuel proof. Its a pipette with markings > and its only $5.00 i think. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:36 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! I think that a 601 canopy could , under the right cond. could hold up to flip over,in dirt , due to it's egg shape if so youre going to have to go out the floor or side the hatchet is the ans. auto break out tool is made for the tempered glass in the side and rear windows of a car or truck ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! > > Most of Vans aircraft are designed for aerobatics and many of them are > often flown aerobatically. The 601 is not designed for much in the way of > aerobatics. The ability to bail out easily is more of an issue for an > aerobatic airplane than for the 601. > > I'm more concerned with getting out of the plane on the ground if I > happen to wind up off airport somewhere belly up. I found a multi- purpose > tool at Harbor Freight that has a hatchet blade on one side, a hammer on > the other and a nail puller claw sticking out the end. It's heavy enough > to break through the canopy and the claw could be used as a make-shift > shovel to dig out with. Its actually been much handier to have around > than a rock hammer, I've used it several times to drive my tie down > stakes and once used it to dig the packed in soil out of the padeyes at > Bacon County airport so I could use them to tie down on my way to > Sun'N'Fun. And I can cut up firewood at my campsite with it too. > > I'm not sure one of those automotive escape tools would do so well on > plexiglas. They are designed to shatter safety glass and do a good job at > that but they don't seem heavy enough to do a decent job on plexiglas. > > Yes, the det cord remark was intended as humor. :) > > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Edward Moody II wrote: > >> I don't have extensive experience with Vans aircraft but the two RV7-As >> that I have been in and around both have canopy relase mechanisms. I >> don't think it is a feature limited to testing prototypes. >> >> My feeling is to go with what CH designed and use either a rock hammer >> as suggested or carry one of those auto escape tools which combine a >> seat bemt cutter and a window smashing hammer. >> >> Oh yeah, and I hope the det cord suggestion was just graveyard humor. >> > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:43 PM PST US From: "Lynn & Nancy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Wiring Craig, Thanks for the input on the flap wiring. That will get me started. do not archive Lynn 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Wiring > > If this is for an XL then 6-B-20 (Date 06/03) shows that all 4 wires carry > the full current. I've measure a steady-state current draw of about 4 amps. > For that current over a rough length of 7-10 feet 18 gauge would be a > suitable size: > > www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm > > Generally Tefzel wire is recommended in aircraft. > > -- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: My 601HD still for sale: Reminder From: "zodieman" Sorry folks, I don't mean to spam the list but I still have my 601HD for sale. I've had 3 three serious buyers in a row bow out at the last minute. Very frustrating when you have shown the plane, agreed on price, got paperwork ready and arranged delivery etc... Circumstances of life have dictated a leave of absence from the flying world for me so I really have to sell this plane this month. I few a few spare parts, some landing gear jigs and a set of fiberglass wheel pant molds I made last year (never completed the project). Anyhow, details are below. I have TONS of pictures up on my private website and I'll try and attach a few here. Zenair Zodiac 601HD. Built in 2005. 50 Hours TT. 80HP Rotax 912 engine. Registered as Advanced Ultralight. Forward opening tinted canopy (like the XL model) which is much safer than the stock HD side-opening canopy. Czech Aircraft works cowling system provides better cooling and faster cruise (105 Mph). 3-blade Warp Drive ground-adjustable composite prop with spinner. Full VFR panel with ASI, VSI, ALT, electric turn and bank, Grand Rapids EIS for engine monitoring, ICOM A6 radio, Garmin 176 GPS, 2-place Sigtronics intercom. 2 headsets included. Has both elevator and aileron trim. Kuntzelman strobes. External radio antenna. Centre console with 2 12V AUX power outlets. Interior has cabin heat. 16 Gallon header tank with 2 7-gallon wing tanks (30 gallons for long-range flight). Streamlined enclosed wheel boxes. Beautiful white/black/grey paint job. First $34,000 US or $39,000 Canadian takes it. I have to sell it this month! Call Trevor at 519 448-4816 after 6PM. Lots more pictures here: Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105051#105051 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: First wing complete From: "TxDave" Well gang, today I finally finished my right wing. Its a great feeling to know I made every single part by hand (except the fiberglass tip and the hardware). Most of the parts for the left wing are made, so it should go together more quickly. I couldn't have reached this milestone without the good people on this list who took the time to answer my questions and offer much needed advice and inspiration. Thanks to you all. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL scratch builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105065#105065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_042_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_039_906.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_027_130.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.