---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/06/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:07 AM - Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Frank Derfler) 2. 06:47 AM - Re: 701 Conventional Gear ... (MacDonald Doug) 3. 07:30 AM - Filing identifier? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 4. 07:56 AM - Firewall Form (ricklach) 5. 08:02 AM - Re: 701 Conventional Gear (John M. Goodings) 6. 08:15 AM - Re: First wing complete (Gig Giacona) 7. 08:16 AM - Re: Filing identifier? (Bryan Martin) 8. 08:40 AM - Re: First wing complete (TxDave) 9. 09:08 AM - Re: Firewall Form (Aaron Gustafson) 10. 09:59 AM - Re: Filing identifier? (T. Graziano) 11. 10:04 AM - Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Tim Juhl) 12. 10:06 AM - Re: Filing identifier? (rick tedford) 13. 10:55 AM - Re: Filing identifier? (eedetail) 14. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Bryan Martin) 15. 12:47 PM - Re:Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (RURUNY@aol.com) 16. 01:15 PM - Construction Records (George Race) 17. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 05:02 PM - Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 (mcolbeck) 19. 05:32 PM - Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Tim Juhl) 20. 05:32 PM - Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL (David Wright) 21. 06:00 PM - Re: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 (Jeff) 22. 06:10 PM - Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL (Ron Lendon) 23. 06:12 PM - Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL (LarryMcFarland) 24. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Motivation (Gary Gower) 25. 06:56 PM - Re: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 (Jaybannist@cs.com) 26. 09:22 PM - Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? (Bryan Martin) 27. 11:02 PM - Re: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 (TxDave) 28. 11:29 PM - Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:33 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? I'm flying an AMD-made 601XL out of Marathon in the Florida Keys, I fly over water 90% of the time. . My worry about getting out if I'm nose-down in the drink is real. Yes, there is a "fire axe" by my left knee, but my primary emergency drill is open the canopy, prop it open with my hard cover kneeboard, and hope the deceleration swings it forward off the airplane when I make my perfect water landing. I have flown with the canopy unlocked and can testify that it raises up an inch or two, makes a hell of a roar, but doesn't do anything else bad. I have tried a taxi test (holding on to the handle) and I think that the canopy will fly forward with hard deceleration. I TRY to keep the baggage compartment pretty clean, but still it often has hard objects in it. (Have you seen the "Myth Busters" "Killer Tissue Box" episode?) . So, thinking about keeping my head under rapid deceleration, has anyone developed a "best way" to install a cargo net in the baggage space of a 601XL? Sources of the net? Pictures? Frank Derfler N183AM AMD-made 601XL (and yes, I love it and would buy it all over again... although I'd put another Dynon screen on the right side) See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:04 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Conventional Gear ... Hi Martin, I too thought that a CH-701 tail dragger would be neat. Conventional gear was an option at the beginning of the CH-701 series. According to Chris Heintz (at Oshkosh) they discontinued the option when they decided A:they weren't selling many, B:the inherent ground handling risks of conventional gear (not big deal in my opinion), and C:the conventional gear did not get off the ground as fast as the trike. According to Chris, the trike drops the tail when it is ready to fly and away you go. With conventional gear you have to get going fast enough to lift the tail to build up to take off speed and then drop it back down to give you the angle of attack to initiate the climb. This is due to the "Inverted Airfoil" design of the tail. It's possible that I am miss quoting the reasons but the basic "it doesn't work as well" statement comes right from Chris. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder Fort Frances, ON Working on electric flapperons Do not archive --- "Bima, Martin" wrote: > > Notice I did not say "tail-dragger" just to let > y'all know I am serious. > > How many and who are running the conventional gear > version of the 701? > > Any issues, problems, benefits? > > > Thanks > > > Martin Bima > STOL-Vair > > Must make fuselage decision soon..... > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:16 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Filing identifier? Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA or HXB (depending on speed)? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall Form From: "ricklach" I decided to go with a stainless steel firewall rather than the galvanized one supplied by Zenith. But now I need a Form to make it. Would any of you scratch builders sell, rent, loan or trust me with your form so I could form my firewall. If youre a kind person I can be reached at: 661-345-7755 or rick@ravengear.us Thanks Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105315#105315 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:13 AM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Conventional Gear It was remarked at a recent RAA meeting that if tricycle gear had been invented first, when someone came along with a tail-dragger design, it would have been rejected as impractical and unsafe! Do not archive. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First wing complete From: "Gig Giacona" Looks great but I have a question and can't really tell from the photo. Have you riveted the flap to the wing? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105318#105318 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:05 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filing identifier? I use CH60. The CH60 doesn't just apply to the factory built version, it existed long before AMD started building the 601XL. Even Vans RV3s have a standard identifier (RV3) and the RV3 has never been factory built. The CH620 Gemini has an identifier (CH62) and only the one prototype was ever built. On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, > do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built > version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA > or HXB (depending on speed)? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First wing complete From: "TxDave" No Gig, it's just setting there for the photo. I'll wait until the wing is attached before final flap installation. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105326#105326 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:55 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall Form Speaking of forms. I have a complete set of HD forms for anyone who'll pay the shipping. However I could envision $30+ shipping due to the weight and size of a box to send them. I'm in Upper Michigan. agustafson@chartermi.net do not archive Aaron ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:59 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Filing identifier? Interesting. Never even thought to look under Zenith/Zenair. May also be a good question to ask of the EAA at infoserv@eaa.org for their iput, Dr Elliott. Looks like a good candidate for the EAA e-Hotline "Question of the Week". Tony Graziano XL, N493TG; 226 hrs. - Re: Filing identifier? From: Bryan Martin (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) Date: Fri Apr 06 - 8:16 AM I use CH60. The CH60 doesn't just apply to the factory built version, it existed long before AMD started building the 601XL. Even Vans RV3s have a standard identifier (RV3) and the RV3 has never been factory built. The CH620 Gemini has an identifier (CH62) and only the one prototype was ever built. On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, > do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built > version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA > or HXB (depending on speed)? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? From: "Tim Juhl" Fixed gear aircraft will tend to flip upside down on contact with the water and then right themselves somewhat. The tight seal of the skins making up the wings of an XL should supply bouyancy for a few minutes at least. If the canopy locks are released (and prevented from re-engaging) the bubble of air beneath the canopy will lift it open if the aircraft begins to sink. We had a ditching a couple of years ago in Lake Michigan where a guy ran a Cherokee 140 out of gas about 10 miles off Milwaukee at night. After ditching he stood on the wing of the floating aircraft and used his cell phone to call 911. Unfortunately he wasn't carrying a lifejacket and by the time the USCG was on scene the plane had sunk and he had disappeared. The aircraft was later located sitting upright on the lake bottom in 120 feet of water. It looked like someone had just parked it there. I suspect the XL would have similar ditching characteristics. Food for thought - a life jacket with a strobe light and the story would have had a different ending. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105333#105333 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:52 AM PST US From: "rick tedford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filing identifier? Hello Andy : I found that CH-60 is the appropriate identifier and most controllers realize it is an amateur built aircraft . ( at least here in Canada ) I suspect it is the same in the U.S. Cheers Rick Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Filing identifier? Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA or HXB (depending on speed)? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 4/5/2007 3:33 PM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Filing identifier? From: "eedetail" I use CH60 to file flight plans, and for flight following. Had a briefer one time that thought it was a helicopter. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105340#105340 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:48 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? That would be this one I believe. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp? ev_id 050428X00522&key=1 With a life jacket and strobe, they might at least have found his body. If they had found him withiin the first hour, he might have even survived. He went down in late april, at that time of year, that lake is COLD. It never gets very warm that far off shore. If you go down in Lake Michigan any time of year, you'd better have a life raft or imersion suit or you won't survive very long. > > We had a ditching a couple of years ago in Lake Michigan where a > guy ran a Cherokee 140 out of gas about 10 miles off Milwaukee at > night. After ditching he stood on the wing of the floating > aircraft and used his cell phone to call 911. Unfortunately he > wasn't carrying a lifejacket and by the time the USCG was on scene > the plane had sunk and he had disappeared. The aircraft was later > located sitting upright on the lake bottom in 120 feet of water. > It looked like someone had just parked it there. I suspect the XL > would have similar ditching characteristics. > > Food for thought - a life jacket with a strobe light and the story > would have had a different ending. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:09 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? Frank, Although my install is on a 701 you can do it on your 601 easy enough. I used 5/8" stainless pad eyes from _http://www.WestMarine.com_ (http://www.WestMarine.com) . Type in 212415 under their keyword search to see.They had 4-packs of these at the store at a cheaper price. I used 2 on top and 2 on bottom in the middle of the cargo area. There are also 2 on the cargo floor just behind the seats. The cargo net clips off the top 2 and can be connected to the 2 front behind the seats depending on what is going back there. Or I could use the 2 nets I have. Finding a cargo net the size you need is easy looking on Ebay. I measured the size of the cargo area and looked for one a bit smaller so it would stretch nicely to the pad eyes. Most of the nets on Ebay have dimensions given but I wrote a few to get ones that weren't. Also pad eyes rivet on nicely with A5 rivets. Go to _http://www.701Builder.com_ (http://www.701Builder.com) and on the homepage scroll down a few pics to see the install. Brian So, thinking about keeping my head under rapid deceleration, has anyone developed a "best way" to install a cargo net in the baggage space of a 601 XL? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:44 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Construction Records Today I uploaded a brand new Demo version of the "My Kit Airplane" Construction Record Keeping program. Unlike my previous version, you no longer need to have Windows Office or Windows Access to run the program. Any needed Windows System support files are included in both the Demo and CD versions. This is a "real" windows program designed and written for Microsoft Operating Systems. It can be run with any Windows XP computer with SP2. It also works with the new Microsoft VISTA Operating System. The install CD comes with the Windows XP SP2 upgrade. SP2 is NOT included in the Web Demo Download. The Web Demo is quite large, about 53 Meg. If that is to large for you to download, for $5.00 I will send a Demo CD, which also included the Windows XP SP2 upgrade. I think you will find this to be a very smooth operating program, that will meet all the record keeping needs for your Experimental Aircraft construction project. Check out the details and screen shots on the web. http://www.mykitairplane.com Thanks, George Race Race Consulting Home Of My Kit Airplane ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:59 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? This sounds like a great reason for flying around lake Michigan instead of flying across it in a single engine plane. Oh well, the Darwin effect works again. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 10:02 AM 4/6/2007, you wrote: >With a life jacket and strobe, they might at least have found his >body. If they had found him withiin the first hour, he might have >even survived. He went down in late april, at that time of year, that >lake is COLD. It never gets very warm that far off shore. If you go >down in Lake Michigan any time of year, you'd better have a life raft >or imersion suit or you won't survive very long. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 From: "mcolbeck" I have drilled the top of the left wing spar rivet line. My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. I would like to either drill out to A5 rivets or add A4 rivets every 20mm (in between the others). Is this OK. My spacing distance is fine even at 20mm apart and I am perfectly centered on the spar. I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per the plans. Help please. -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105378#105378 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? From: "Tim Juhl" Bryan - I couldn't get the link to work so I don't know if that was the case or not. We watched a video on the accident and used it as a topic of discussion at the Flight Instructor Refresher Course I attended this past January in Grand Rapids so my recollection may not be perfect. Regarding flying over the Great Lakes. I've been a SCUBA diver longer than I've been a pilot (42 years). I've spent many years searching for and then documenting and videoing shipwrecks in Great Lakes waters so I know something about cold water temperatures and their effects on the human body. I also have an extensive background in Search and Rescue courtesy of the CAP. Bryan, you are absolutely correct in your comments and anyone planning to fly over the Great Lakes would do well to bear them in mind. Everyone is different but as for myself I avoid flying over all but short expanses of open water when the water temperature is too cold for survival for more than a few minutes. When I do go across I make sure I can communicate my position easily with ATC (radar coverage preferably) and carry flotation and signaling devices. I'll actually wear an airline type life jacket on such crossings because I don't want to have to try to struggle into one while trying to ditch. When possible I carry plenty of altitude and cross where the lake is narrow. Pilots in lower Michigan are surrounded on three sides by water so we learn to contend with overwater flying early in our careers. Like all flying, it requires preparation, training and good judgement. The number of aircraft on the bottom of the lakes is testimony to what can happen if you fail on any of those accounts. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105381#105381 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:37 PM PST US From: David Wright Subject: Zenith-List: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL Gents I am scratchbuilding a 601 and am neck and neck with Dave Clay and Ron Lendon - however.... While putting together the parts for the right wing I noticed that I had made an error in measuring the location for the lightening holes for the rear ribs. I used the reference line on 6-W-6 top drawing to measure the position of the lightening holes. I measured the 120mm for the first hole from half way up the form block instead of the bottom corner (as is clearly shown in the drawing left side of middle row!) In consequence I now have 18 ribs, 9 of them rivetted into the right wing - all with the lightening holes 30mm forward of where they should be. I noticed this error when fitting the aileron bellcrank assembly. A possible problem I foresee is running the cables to the bellcrank - can anyone put me out of my misery - will the 30mm cause a problem running the aileron cables from the fuselage through the lightening holes - will there still be enough clearance?? I e-mailed Caleb at ZAC, but he was unable to assist as they don't have any open wings at Mexico. He suggested utilising fairleads if there was a problem. Dave Wright 601XL - scratchbuilding wings Washington UK ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:04 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. ==> If you will be putting a rivet in the hole, look at recent posts on this issue to find out how to get a more round hole. The normal advice is that the rivet will fill up the slightly triangular hole. If it is a bolt, it may be of more concern. I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per the plans. Help please. ==> Go to one of the tool vendors like Aircraft Tool Supply, Brown Tools, or US Tools and look for a tool called a strap duplicator. These are made to allow you to drill a hole in a top skin that lines up with an existing hold in the surface below it. You probably do not need the extra holes and rivets. Jeff D. CH 601 HD ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL From: "Ron Lendon" Dave, Take some string and run it from the bell crank back to where the cables enter the fuselage. this should give you a good visual. Maybe you can modify where the other end connects to the stick to compensate? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105385#105385 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL David, Jig up your bellcrank and find the swing of the expected arc possible with max movements using string if necessary. All the dimensions are there if you stack them and you'll find out how much the 30mm error means to the clearance you need. It may have no consequence or you may find the necessity of making a few ribs again. In any case, don't despair as all of us find ourselves in the same basket from time to time. It's good for the soul to make a few parts more than once occasionally. Good luck, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com David Wright wrote: > > > Gents > > I am scratchbuilding a 601 and am neck and neck with Dave Clay and Ron > Lendon - however.... > While putting together the parts for the right wing I noticed that I > had made an error in measuring the location for the lightening holes > for the rear ribs. I used the reference line on 6-W-6 top drawing to > measure the position of the lightening holes. I measured the 120mm > for the first hole from half way up the form block instead of the > bottom corner (as is clearly shown in the drawing left side of middle > row!) > In consequence I now have 18 ribs, 9 of them rivetted into the right > wing - all with the lightening holes 30mm forward of where they should > be. > I noticed this error when fitting the aileron bellcrank assembly. > A possible problem I foresee is running the cables to the bellcrank - > can anyone put me out of my misery - will the 30mm cause a problem > running the aileron cables from the fuselage through the lightening > holes - will there still be enough clearance?? > I e-mailed Caleb at ZAC, but he was unable to assist as they don't > have any open wings at Mexico. He suggested utilising fairleads if > there was a problem. > > > Dave Wright > 601XL - scratchbuilding wings > Washington UK > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:51 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Motivation Hello Friends, Sorry for beeing so late, I am building It takes to much time to be updated in a list,while building today is April 6. about 1,200 mails to read... For a good article in Motivation read the March issue of Kitplanes, the article about "Homebuild Moment" explains exactly this... Saludos Gary Gower Flying a 701 912S from Chapala, Mexico. Back to building the 601 XL. brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in this whole scratch building process due to the money part of it, after completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers to those questions, I'm just venting :) ) > > So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to build in a warp. What have others done during this phase? > > Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent. > > (by the way, it's a 701) Spar drilling. Lot's of clamps. Then clecos obviously. Motivation, break it down into smaller projects. Right now you're not building a plane, you're building an assembly of a plane, and to break it down further you're building an assembly of an assembly. Enjoy watching each piece come together correctly. Later you'll put it all together into a plane. Don't put a tme limit on yourself. Just look at the time in the garage as YOUR time. That's it. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98358#98358 --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:37 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 You can easily make your own "strap duplicator" or what I call a hole finder. Take two strips of .025 aluminum that are about 1" x 4 or 5 inches. Stack them and drill two holes in one end for A4 rivets, about 3/4" apart. Cleco the two strips together. At the other end, drill through both with a #40 drill bit. Take the strips apart and put an A3 rivet into one of the single end holes. Rivet the two strips together with the A3 rivet in the bottom one, with the head up. The "tail" will just fit in a #30 hole. Slip the device over the edge of the skin sheet and find the rivet hole with the A3 rivet. Viola! You now have a pilot hole directly over the existing rivet hole. I just drill enough to make a definite "center" and remove the device before completing the hole. That way, I don't drill through to the lower strip and ruin it. I made two of these, one with an A3 rivet for #30 holes and another with an A4 rivet for #20 holes. If this is not clear, I can send a drawing. Jay in Dallas "Jeff " wrote: > >My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. > >==> If you will be putting a rivet in the hole, look at recent posts on >this issue to find out how to get a more round hole. The normal advice is >that the rivet will fill up the slightly triangular hole. If it is a bolt, >it may be of more concern. > >I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The >center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per >the plans. Help please. >==> Go to one of the tool vendors like Aircraft Tool Supply, Brown Tools, or >US Tools and look for a tool called a strap duplicator. These are made to >allow you to drill a hole in a top skin that lines up with an existing hold >in the surface below it. You probably do not need the extra holes and >rivets. > >Jeff D. >CH 601 HD > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:39 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL? I couldn't get the link to work either after posting it. The NTSB accident number I was referring to is CHI05FA180. Do a search on that in the NTSB database. I remember hearing about that accident and thought at the time that the cold water probably did him in. I think this is the same accident. It's the only one that comes up when you search on Lake Michigan and Piper. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701 From: "TxDave" Awhile back I called ZAC about a couple of bad holes in my spar cap. Nick advised me to drill out to the next larger size rivet. He said this was usually best solution. Jay...thanks for the info on the hole finder. I had seen those before but didn't understand their use until you explained it. Learn something new every day! Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL scratch builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105412#105412 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL From: "TxDave" Dave, Caleb, Ron, and Larry all have given you excellent advice. We surely are fortunate to have so many smart people to help us out. Seems like strategically placed fairleads would be appropriate. Of course your threaded rod will have to be 30mm longer since your bellcrank will be mounted 30mm forward. One thing to consider is how little the ailerons actually move from neutral ( 11.5 degrees up and down). Dave Clay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105413#105413 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.