Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:28 AM - Re: cost to build 601-xl (haven)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: Corvair firewall (Gig Giacona)
3. 08:06 AM - Convention party (Joe)
4. 08:57 AM - Harbor Freight Products (Stanley Challgren)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Harbor Freight Products (TxDave)
6. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Harbor Freight Products (Edward Moody II)
7. 11:33 AM - Exhaust spacing (kkinney)
8. 12:47 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Products (Edward Moody II)
9. 02:10 PM - Zenith 701 (Hal Rozema)
10. 02:29 PM - Re: Exhaust spacing (Aaron Gustafson)
11. 02:31 PM - Re: Short field and CH 701 (billmileski)
12. 02:45 PM - Re: SPAL linear actuator and controller (Dino Bortolin)
13. 02:48 PM - Re: Exhaust spacing (LarryMcFarland)
14. 02:59 PM - Re: Zenith 701 (LarryMcFarland)
15. 03:31 PM - Cortec VCI-373 (special4)
16. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Harbor Freight Products (Bill Naumuk)
17. 04:28 PM - Arrgh!!! (Bill Naumuk)
18. 04:59 PM - Re: Arrgh!!! (Craig Payne)
19. 06:24 PM - Corvair firewall (Bill Naumuk)
20. 06:30 PM - Re: Exhaust spacing (n801bh@netzero.com)
21. 07:53 PM - Re: Convention party (ZodieRocket)
22. 08:34 PM - Re: Cortec VCI-373 (JohnDRead@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: cost to build 601-xl |
Thanks for the quick replys. Money is of course a large consideration. It looks
like I may get into it, and do it both ways. Build some from scratch, and
buy some premade parts. Thanks again for the replys....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106480#106480
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Subject: | Re: Corvair firewall |
Yes they have. When I decided on the Corvair I had already fitted the shorter bolt
welded brackets. I replaced these with the non-welded ones that also have
the canopy attach point.
One thing to keep in mind if you use these is you will need to attach the engine
mount while you can still get to the back of the firewall.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
>
> I think that the factory has taken to delivering the brackets without the
> bolts welded on. This allows you to line-drill all the parts after the
> fuselage is put together. Nick sent me this back in Feb 2006:
>
> "In the latest edition, we no longer weld the bolt to the engine mount
> fitting. For the lower engine mount fittings, installing the bolt after the
> fitting is installed to the fuselage allows for better alignment. For a 38mm
> long bushing, allow approximately 3mm to go through the fitting, the doubler
> and firewall = 41mm A better bolt to use is an AN6-22A (grip length
> 1-11/16")"
>
> -- Craig
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106493#106493
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Subject: | Convention party |
Gang,
With over 250 people signed up for the Sun and Fun party, I can see a great
marketing adventure for someone! We should have an official 601 builders
shirt of some kind that we can wear to conventions with the profits going to
the differernt parties! Something that is sold just to the builders with the
Zenith logo and the word "builder" underneath. I'm going to Sun and Fun, but
my return flight is during the party. I hope we can put something together
like this for Oshkosh. If there is a party planned I would like to
volunteer. I live close by the convention site.
Joe in Oshkosh
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Subject: | Harbor Freight Products |
List:
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but my experience with some
of the HF products has been less than stellar.
With someone's recommendation on their Central Pneumatic Air
Compressor (2.5HP-8 gallon, Model 90385) I purchased one and received
it a few days later. Both wheels were broken off when it arrived in
the box and the motor cover was broken such that it was not attached
to the motor. I called HF and they courteously indicated they would
send replacement parts which arrived two days ago.
The new wheels were easy to attach but the new motor cover had to be
modified before it could be labored into position for placement of
the attaching bolts and screws. It appeared that the motor cover was
either poorly formed or for a slightly different product.
Operation of the air compressor is disappointing. Eight seconds
after you start using air the compressor motor turns on. If you stop
immediately it takes another 50 seconds for the compressor motor to
once again turn off. Using its air to power an air shear requires
stopping operation about every minute to let the compressor catch up.
The bottom line is that if the price is very low, it probably is a
minimally acceptable product. I got what I paid for. $119 for this
compressor is acceptable if only occasionally used for putting air in
your tires but I would not recommend it for building an aircraft.
I also got the Air Hydraulic Riveter (Model 93458) at someone's
recommendation that it was better than the one from Zenith. I tried
to follow the instructions on priming it and put some hydraulic oil
in it. The result is that a cloud of oil comes out every time the
trigger is activated. I have not yet dared to get it close to the
701 I am building.
On the plus side the air compressor is smaller than the one it
replaced which had lasted some 15 years. Both HF items can be
purchased from me for much less than I paid.
Stan Challgren
701VG (Reserved)
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Products |
Hey Stan,
I have the same pneumatic riveter. You don't need to "prime" it. You only have
to put 1 or 2 drops of oil in the inlet periodically to keep the moving parts
lubricated. I have pulled thousands of rivets with mine without a hiccup. Sounds
like you may have used too much oil. My apologies if I assumed incorrectly.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601XL from plans
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106523#106523
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Products |
In my Harbor Freight puller, I only had trouble when I was putting oil
in only periodically. After a year and a half of that practice, it would
not reset after each rivet pulled. Once I began to put two - three drops
at each work session, it has never given any more problems.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: TxDave
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Harbor Freight Products
Hey Stan,
I have the same pneumatic riveter. You don't need to "prime" it. You
only have to put 1 or 2 drops of oil in the inlet periodically to keep
the moving parts lubricated. I have pulled thousands of rivets with mine
without a hiccup. Sounds like you may have used too much oil. My
apologies if I assumed incorrectly.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601XL from plans
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106523#106523
--
4/11/2007 5:14 PM
Message 7
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|
Pardon me if this is a stupid question, what are the design considerations for
routing the exhaust system stubs?
Bingelis says the obvious stuff like don't route them too close to anything, I'm
hoping for something more specific.
How close is too close to the fiberglass cowling? Or too close to the firewall?
How much stub do we hang out in the wind?
Any thoughts are welcome.
Thank you,
Kevin Kinney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106539#106539
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Products |
Quality aside, you have you by a compressor that can deliver a bit more
than enough standard cubic feet per minute (SCFM) to keep up with
whatever your tools use. Even a high quality compressor will run its
butt off trying to keep up with a tool that uses more air volume than it
can provide. That said, I don't know how many cubic feet per minute your
shears use compared to the capacity of the compressor but it sounds like
a mis-match.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Stanley Challgren
To: Zenith List
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Products
<challgren@mac.com>
List:
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but my experience with some
of the HF products has been less than stellar.
With someone's recommendation on their Central Pneumatic Air
Compressor (2.5HP-8 gallon, Model 90385) I purchased one and received
it a few days later. Both wheels were broken off when it arrived in
the box and the motor cover was broken such that it was not attached
to the motor. I called HF and they courteously indicated they would
send replacement parts which arrived two days ago.
The new wheels were easy to attach but the new motor cover had to be
modified before it could be labored into position for placement of
the attaching bolts and screws. It appeared that the motor cover was
either poorly formed or for a slightly different product.
Operation of the air compressor is disappointing. Eight seconds
after you start using air the compressor motor turns on. If you stop
immediately it takes another 50 seconds for the compressor motor to
once again turn off. Using its air to power an air shear requires
stopping operation about every minute to let the compressor catch up.
The bottom line is that if the price is very low, it probably is a
minimally acceptable product. I got what I paid for. $119 for this
compressor is acceptable if only occasionally used for putting air in
your tires but I would not recommend it for building an aircraft.
I also got the Air Hydraulic Riveter (Model 93458) at someone's
recommendation that it was better than the one from Zenith. I tried
to follow the instructions on priming it and put some hydraulic oil
in it. The result is that a cloud of oil comes out every time the
trigger is activated. I have not yet dared to get it close to the
701 I am building.
On the plus side the air compressor is smaller than the one it
replaced which had lasted some 15 years. Both HF items can be
purchased from me for much less than I paid.
Stan Challgren
701VG (Reserved)
--
4/11/2007 5:14 PM
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Question
Any Jabiru 3300 engines flying in 701?
Anyone flying a Prince P-Tip prop? On a Jab-3300?
Hal
701PF
Phoenix
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust spacing |
Good questions. I'm waiting for the answers too!
Aaron
> Pardon me if this is a stupid question, what are the design considerations
> for routing the exhaust system stubs?
> Bingelis says the obvious stuff like don't route them too close to
> anything, I'm hoping for something more specific.
>
> How close is too close to the fiberglass cowling? Or too close to the
> firewall?
> How much stub do we hang out in the wind?
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Short field and CH 701 |
> Thanks for the info. As I understand it you are carrying some power all the way
to touch down or just until the flair?
> Jerry(Mentally flying my yet to built airplane unto my yet to be built strip)
>
I come in at idle regularly, and often all the way to touchdown. In this approach,
you have to have pretty good timing because the speed bleeds very quickly.
With a passenger and lots of fuel, extra concentration is necessary. I also
will relax sometimes by approaching with some power, and keeping it in until after
the flare and the plane's rate of descent is arrested. I suspect that my
rather aft CG helps maintain my plane's elevator authority a little longer than
the same plane with a forward CG.
I have also found operation out of an 800 foot strip to be well within the plane's
capabilities, and this included 40ft+ trees at the threshold of one direction.
Bill Mileski
Ledyard, CT
701 912S 85hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106575#106575
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: SPAL linear actuator and controller |
I'm surprised that it is able to get anywhere close to the requested
position with the feedback completely disconnected. Does it go to one
end of the travel first and then to the requested spot? If so, then it
is probably calculating the time to travel from one end to the target
spot. The motor speed will vary with voltage and load, so the
positioning wouldn't be very accurate.
What happens if only one of the feedback lines is open circuit?
Dino Bortolin
On 4/11/07, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dino and all, the controller for my Spal linear
> actuator arrived yesterday. As we discussed last
> week, I tried disconnecting the position feedback
> wiring to see what the actuator did. When the
> feedback wiring is disconnected the actuator does not
> move until told to do so. Once you press a preset
> button the actuator moves in an unpredictable fashion.
> Basically, it tries to find the location that you
> requested but usually under or overshoots slightly. To
> stop this movement all that is required is to press
> the two buttons (either 1&2 or 2&3) to move the
> actuator manually. The actuator then functions fine
> in manual mode as it would with a basic DPDT switch.
>
> Is this adequately stable for use? I haven't decided
> yet. I think I will play with it in this failure mode
> some more before the final decision is made.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Again, good points Dino. I'll have to play with the
> controller once it arrives and make sure I'm not going
>
> to induce a safety issue.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario , Canada
>
> do no archive
>
> --- Dino Bortolin <dbortol(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Quote:
> You could do that, and if you catch a runaway in
> time, you can stop if from
> going any further. But you wouldn't be able to bring
> it back, unless you put
> in another switch to override the controller. At
> which point, I think it has
> turned the elegantly simple into the overly complex.
> But, that's the beauty
> of homebuilts - everyone is free to make it any way
> that suits them. I still
> like a DPDT toggle switch...
>
> Dino Bortolin
>
> On 4/3/07, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
> >
> > Another solution to the position problem would be
> to
> > install a switch in the power output to the motor
> that
> > would be used as a system enable. That way if the
> > controller did get scrambled, it would be unable
> to
> > output to the motor. Simply flip the switch on as
> > part of your downwind check.
> >
> > Very good point Dino
> >
> > Doug MacDonald
> >
>
>
> Never miss an email again!
> Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust spacing |
Kevin,
The exhaust system should have at least half an inch clearance between
fiberglass parts and air should be directed in
a way that allows flow between these items. On the firewall, you need
to keep exhaust as much as 3 inches or more off
it so that any electrical pumps, lines or hoses aren't affected by
radiated heat. Another good item is wrapping the exhaust
to contain radiated heat to where it leaves the pipes. It's very
effective. You may, depending on the horsepower output
and rpms you run, require a bit more than the half inch for fiberglass.
I replaced fiberglass that was that proximate with
aluminum pieces that are less affected. They cool better and don't
conduct as much heat into the fiberglass that they blend
with. First link shows the fiberglass that ultimately browned by the
heat. Second link shows the aluminum inserts
and the third link shows how paint tends to blend the aluminum and the
fiberglass parts so they're not noticed.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/lowercowl1.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowlfairingsinside.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
More pictures on the site if you're curious,
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
kkinney wrote:
>
> Pardon me if this is a stupid question, what are the design considerations for
routing the exhaust system stubs?
> Bingelis says the obvious stuff like don't route them too close to anything,
I'm hoping for something more specific.
>
> How close is too close to the fiberglass cowling? Or too close to the firewall?
> How much stub do we hang out in the wind?
>
> Any thoughts are welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> Kevin Kinney
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106539#106539
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
Hal,
Think the 3300 Jab is overkill for the 701.
You should look into the Contact Magazine ads, because there are always
several
Prince P-tip props advertised for sale from 3300 engines and others.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Hal Rozema wrote:
> Question
>
> Any Jabiru 3300 engines flying in 701?
>
> Anyone flying a Prince P-Tip prop? On a Jab-3300?
>
> Hal
> 701PF
> Phoenix
> *
>
> *
Message 15
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|
I am trying to find the information up to what temperature and/or humidity Cortec
VCI-373 can be applied to aluminum. I am using Zinc Chromate but I have problems
with high temperature and humidity here in SW Florida as Zinc Chromate can
only be used up to 80F and/or 60% humidity.
Thanks
Peter Sonders
Zodiax 601XL working on the elevator
--------
Sportsflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106589#106589
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Products |
All-
No assumption. They only give you a couple of cc's of oil, and you only
need half of it. Sprayed the crap out of everything for hours!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Harbor Freight Products
>
> Hey Stan,
>
> I have the same pneumatic riveter. You don't need to "prime" it. You only
> have to put 1 or 2 drops of oil in the inlet periodically to keep the
> moving parts lubricated. I have pulled thousands of rivets with mine
> without a hiccup. Sounds like you may have used too much oil. My apologies
> if I assumed incorrectly.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> 601XL from plans
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106523#106523
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been
trying to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO
PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and
install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of
the braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Message 18
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> CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR
WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
If my plane is representative then yes. It was built for a Lycoming mount
and my Corvair mount (built by WW) fit fine.
-- Craig
Message 19
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Subject: | Corvair firewall |
Mark-
This is the answer to what I have been looking for. As you can see,
I want to get this into the Matronics archives. Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: president@can-zacaviation.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
Yes, nothing on the firewall will interfere with the Corvair
installation. However if you have the time plan and layout your cabin
heat, fuel pumps, wires and cables. Pictures attached of FWF on my
plane.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been
trying to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO
PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and
install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of
the braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
====================
--
10:44 PM
--
10:44 PM
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust spacing |
The best way to explain this is to remember your EGTs will be showing 14
00+ degrees f. Now turn on your electric stovetop to high, see the burne
rs glowing nice and orange, and HOT.. That is about 1375 degrees. Hold y
our hand close and see how long you can stand it. Now build your firewal
l forward components keeping that in mind.. Radiant heat is nothing to f
ool around with. It can and will start fires..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "kkinney" <kkinney@fuse.net> wrote:
Pardon me if this is a stupid question, what are the design consideratio
ns for routing the exhaust system stubs?
Bingelis says the obvious stuff like don't route them too close to anyth
ing, I'm hoping for something more specific.
How close is too close to the fiberglass cowling? Or too close to the f
irewall?
How much stub do we hang out in the wind?
Any thoughts are welcome.
Thank you,
Kevin Kinney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106539#106539
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>The best way to explain this is to remember your EGTs will be s
howing 1400+ degrees f. Now turn on your electric stovetop to high, see
the burners glowing nice and orange, and HOT.. That is about 1375 degree
s. Hold your hand close and see how long you can stand it. Now build you
r firewall forward components keeping that in mind.. Radiant heat is not
hing to fool around with. It can and will start fires..</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "kkinney" <kkinney@fuse.net> wrote:<
BR>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kkinn
ey" <kkinney@fuse.net><BR><BR>Pardon me if thi
s is a stupid question, what are the&
nbsp;design considerations for routing the exha
ust system stubs?<BR>Bingelis says the obvious&
nbsp;stuff like don't route them too close
to anything, I'm hoping for something&nbs
p;more specific.<BR><BR>How close is too close&
nbsp;to the fiberglass cowling? Or too&nb
sp;close to the firewall?<BR>How much stub 
;do we hang out in the wind?<BR><BR>Any&nb
sp;thoughts are welcome.<BR><BR>Thank you,<BR>Kevin
Kinney<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Read this topic online her
e:<BR><BR>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106539#106539<BR
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arch & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, F
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Message 21
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Subject: | Convention party |
Just so no one races out and goes through the hassle of setting this up.
I am presently 3/4's the way through of setting up a online store for
all clothing , hats, mugs, belts, buckles, jackets, flight bags, first
aid kits and event shirts both dress and casual. All of which are either
pressed or embroidered and they are also able to be personalized with
the Can-Zac Logo and Zenith Logo and your name or call letters. This
should be ready for announcement between Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
Gang,
With over 250 people signed up for the Sun and Fun party, I can see a
great
marketing adventure for someone! We should have an official 601 builders
shirt of some kind that we can wear to conventions with the profits
going to
the differernt parties! Something that is sold just to the builders with
the
Zenith logo and the word "builder" underneath. I'm going to Sun and Fun,
but
my return flight is during the party. I hope we can put something
together
like this for Oshkosh. If there is a party planned I would like to
volunteer. I live close by the convention site.
Joe in Oshkosh
--
10:44 PM
--
10:44 PM
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Cortec VCI-373 |
Hi Pete:
I dilute Cortec 373 50/50 with denatured alcohol. The alcohol
flashes off very quickly, the temp in my shop is 70 and the humidity has been
as high as 70%. I have attached info from Cortec, there is no temp or humidity
data.
Regards, John Read
do not archive
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