Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Re: Arrgh!!! (Phil Maxson)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Arrgh!!! (Bill Naumuk)
3. 08:34 AM - Re: Arrgh!!! (Jeff)
4. 08:34 AM - "new" 701 kit (LouB)
5. 08:49 AM - fuel system suggestions (601corvair)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: fuel system suggestions (Gary Boothe)
7. 09:24 AM - Corvair firewall- bolt length (Bill Naumuk)
8. 09:41 AM - Re: Harbor Freight Products (Milburn Reed)
9. 09:52 AM - Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 10:15 AM - Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length (Craig Payne)
11. 10:21 AM - Re: "new" 701 kit (John Marzulli)
12. 11:05 AM - Re: fuel system suggestions (Bryan Martin)
13. 11:42 AM - Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length (Bill Naumuk)
14. 11:50 AM - Re: fuel system suggestions (LarryMcFarland)
15. 12:16 PM - Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length (Jaybannist@cs.com)
16. 02:07 PM - Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length (Bill Naumuk)
17. 04:20 PM - NACA Scoop in cowl (Tim Juhl)
18. 04:48 PM - Re: NACA Scoop in cowl (Jaybannist@cs.com)
Message 1
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I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall with no
problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the engine mounts
compared to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the kit. I just unb
olted my four mount points, cut the tack welds for the AN bolts and had a w
elder tack in four longer ones. I use the William Wynne engine mount and h
e can tell you the bolt lengths (or just measure them when you get the engi
ne mount).
I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
From: naumuk@alltel.netTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: A
rrgh!!!Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:53 -0400
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been tryin
g to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO PLANS AN
D MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill NaumukHDS Fuse/CorvairTownville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and insta
ll the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of the bra
ces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill NaumukHDS Fuse/CorvairTownville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 2
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Phil-
The HDS firewall plans were set up for a Rotax 912. Is the XL the
same? I mean, were you able to lay everything out including the firewall
holes for the engine mount and the only difference was the length of the
mount bolts?
That would be a real bonus. I haven't drilled the mount attachment
holes- figured I'd wait until I got the mount and drill to fit. I
couldn't find any firewall bolt pattern information in either the
Corvair manual or on the WW website.
Thanks for the info.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Maxson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall
with no problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the
engine mounts compared to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the
kit. I just unbolted my four mount points, cut the tack welds for the
AN bolts and had a welder tack in four longer ones. I use the William
Wynne engine mount and he can tell you the bolt lengths (or just measure
them when you get the engine mount).
I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: naumuk@alltel.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:53 -0400
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've
been trying to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE
FIREWALL TO PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING
LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall
and install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move
some of the braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
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arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
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Message 3
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I'm using the JabiruUSA mount for the 3300 on mine. I also have a 912 mount
that came off a flying 601. I asked Nick this question too. It is probably
in the archives. His answer was to go ahead and drill it per plans so I
could build the fueslage. He had the ZAC supplied mounts in mind, of
course. I did drill the holes then and it worked out fine for the JabiruUSA
mount years later when I bought my engine and FWF. Even though the
JabiruUSA mount needed to be even more accurate than the 912 mount, it was.
Accurate placement of the holes in the firewall is the key. The 912 mount
has a plate at each corner that allows the builder to define the exact
location of the holes in the mount too. No problems.
Jeff Davidson
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Maxson
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall with no
problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the engine mounts
compared to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the kit. I just
unbolted my four mount points, cut the tack welds for the AN bolts and had a
welder tack in four longer ones. I use the William Wynne engine mount and
he can tell you the bolt lengths (or just measure them when you get the
engine mount).
I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
_____
From: naumuk@alltel.net
Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been trying
to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO PLANS AND
MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk <mailto:naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and
install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of the
braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
p://forums.matronics.com
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Message 4
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Does anyone have any experience with the "new" standard STOL CH 701 kit now includes
many CNC pre-cut and pre-drilled skins and components. How extensive is
the pre-drilling. Are the assembly manuals improved.
I notice the the build times have been reduced. Will the Zenith 701 ever get to
the RV12's matched hole construction level.
Also, has anyone looked into the CH701 Quick Build Kit for Flight Crafters in FA.
Where is it quick built (CZ or the Philippines or locally). I'm just ploting
and planning so I don't want to bother them ... but I wonder about the price
of the Quick Build option.
Thanks,
Lou
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106878#106878
Message 5
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| Subject: | fuel system suggestions |
Ok guys I have a questions for the group about fuel systems that my
EAA technical advisor (TA) asked us. First some background. Our
advisor has built and flown behind many aircraft. He has restored several
classic aircraft, is a retired airline captain and currently spends his
days flying corporate and running an airport. He is the kind of guy who
has, or will, fly behind everything he suggests.. Our project is a
Zenith 601 HDS that has 2 ten gallon leading edge wing tanks. It
currently calls for a plain vanilla corvair engine and an MA3 carb. TA has
warmed to the idea of Corvair, although he is not crazy about it. He has
helped people in the past with other auto-conversion and was helpful,
but not overly enthusiastic. All that being said, here is the issue.
During a conversation on fuel system design we showed him the William Wynne (www.flycorvair.com) design
for the Zenith XL, using the 2 in series electrical pumps and no
mechanical pump. He recommended against it on the principle that we
had placed all our eggs in the one basket, that being the electrical
system. His suggestion was to use one electrical pump and the corvair
mechanical pump and fly it like a Cherokee using the electrical pump as
a boost pump and only during take off and landing. Alternatively, he
suggested a header tank, pumping fuel to the header and gravity feeding
the carb. This would probably require a return line to the wing tank.
We discussed this for sometime and then he asked me this. Could I name
a certificated aircraft, low wing, that only had one type of pump to
move fuel to the carb? If not, why did I think that was? Interesting
question as the FAA guys fly behind lots of airplanes. I would be
interested in any help or suggestion I can get with fuel systems,
especially flying airplanes and their different fuel systems. Thanks phill
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 6
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| Subject: | fuel system suggestions |
Phill,
I would never question the wisdom of a TA, but not all TA's look at things
the same. Yours suggests the wisdom of a complicated fuel delivery system
which exceeds the design of the manufacturer. That's your choice.
There is a common feeling that simplicity is the best answer. The most
simple fuel delivery is with a header tank, gravity feeding to the carb. The
classic Taylorcraft BC12-D had two 6 gallon wing tanks that gravity fed into
the 12 gallon header tank. When the header tank got low you open the valve
and drain from a wing tank. When the header tank was full, you closed the
valve.
The 601 HDS is similar as it is designed to use either an 8 or 18 gallon
header tank. The only difference, obviously, is that you need the fuel pumps
to deliver to it. Most 601 drivers that have planes with header tanks feel
that the header tank is the only insurance they need to get to a safe place
if the fuel pumps fail. The key factor being: Keep your header tank full.
The MA3 carb likes gravity pressure best. This is described in length by
William Wynne. I am hoping that you plan on using a header tank. Whatever
means of delivering to that tank is up to you.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 601corvair
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel system suggestions
Ok guys I have a questions for the group about fuel systems that my
EAA technical advisor (TA) asked us. First some background. Our
advisor has built and flown behind many aircraft. He has restored several
classic aircraft, is a retired airline captain and currently spends his
days flying corporate and running an airport. He is the kind of guy who
has, or will, fly behind everything he suggests.. Our project is a
Zenith 601 HDS that has 2 ten gallon leading edge wing tanks. It
currently calls for a plain vanilla corvair engine and an MA3 carb. TA has
warmed to the idea of Corvair, although he is not crazy about it. He has
helped people in the past with other auto-conversion and was helpful,
but not overly enthusiastic. All that being said, here is the issue.
During a conversation on fuel system design we showed him the William Wynne
(www.flycorvair.com) design
for the Zenith XL, using the 2 in series electrical pumps and no
mechanical pump. He recommended against it on the principle that we
had placed all our eggs in the one basket, that being the electrical
system. His suggestion was to use one electrical pump and the corvair
mechanical pump and fly it like a Cherokee using the electrical pump as
a boost pump and only during take off and landing. Alternatively, he
suggested a header tank, pumping fuel to the header and gravity feeding
the carb. This would probably require a return line to the wing tank.
We discussed this for sometime and
then he asked me this. Could I name
a certificated aircraft, low wing, that only had one type of pump to
move fuel to the carb? If not, why did I think that was? Interesting
question as the FAA guys "fly behind" lots of airplanes. I would be
interested in any help or suggestion I can get with
fuel systems,
especially flying airplanes and their different fuel systems. Thanks phill
_____
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc
X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-> cars
at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Corvair firewall- bolt length |
Jeff and all-
Wow, this has been like a newspaper treasure hunt!
Are HD/HDS and XL plans mount locations the same? Yes. According to
the archives, the XL O-235 layout will also work for Rotax and Jabiru
mounts on all 601s. But what about Corvair mounts?
According to Phil Maxson, he drilled per plans for the O-235 and
everything worked for his Corvair installation but for longer bolts.
Now, all I need is to know is the bolt specs so I can give ACS some
more money and I'm in business.
I'm sure you can imagine how hard it is to hold back progress until
you make sure you won't have to rework the whole front end of your
project down the line. Education via the school of hard knocks.
Anyone out there have the Corvair mount bolt specs?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
I'm using the JabiruUSA mount for the 3300 on mine. I also have a 912
mount that came off a flying 601. I asked Nick this question too. It
is probably in the archives. His answer was to go ahead and drill it
per plans so I could build the fueslage. He had the ZAC supplied mounts
in mind, of course. I did drill the holes then and it worked out fine
for the JabiruUSA mount years later when I bought my engine and FWF.
Even though the JabiruUSA mount needed to be even more accurate than the
912 mount, it was. Accurate placement of the holes in the firewall is
the key. The 912 mount has a plate at each corner that allows the
builder to define the exact location of the holes in the mount too. No
problems.
Jeff Davidson
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Maxson
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:46 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall
with no problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the
engine mounts compared to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the
kit. I just unbolted my four mount points, cut the tack welds for the
AN bolts and had a welder tack in four longer ones. I use the William
Wynne engine mount and he can tell you the bolt lengths (or just measure
them when you get the engine mount).
I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: naumuk@alltel.net
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:53 -0400
All-
I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been
trying to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO
PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
Corvair people-
Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall
and install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move
some of the braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listp://forums.m
atronics.com
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-----
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Products |
My Craftsman 2HP compressor I bought in 1970 is still in my farm shop
and never has missed a lick. When I converted our family room to
aircraft factory I bought a cheepo HF compressor. 2 HP I think. From the
start it would kick off and I would have to go out and push the reset
after cooling.
In a fit of anger I took off the cover and bypassed the reset and said
what the heck let it burn up and I'll then buy a new one. That was over
a year ago and it has been working good. I think the cooling fan and
system with the cover on ( unlike aircraft engines) is funky! It is the
next best thing to tossing it out. I use HF "dremal", air shears as well
as an air gun to blow out my work room so it runs for long periods. I
use a 30 gal tank (old water system pressure tank).
Message 9
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| Subject: | Corvair firewall- bolt length |
Bill,
According to WW, you will need 4 AN6-23A bolts, 4 AN363-624 nuts and 4 AN960-616
washers. This information is in the WW 601 installation manual.
Jay in Dallas
do not archive
"Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>Jeff and all-
> Wow, this has been like a newspaper treasure hunt!
> Are HD/HDS and XL plans mount locations the same? Yes. According to the archives,
the XL O-235 layout will also work for Rotax and Jabiru mounts on all
601s. But what about Corvair mounts?
> According to Phil Maxson, he drilled per plans for the O-235 and everything
worked for his Corvair installation but for longer bolts.
> Now, all I need is to know is the bolt specs so I can give ACS some more money
and I'm in business.
> I'm sure you can imagine how hard it is to hold back progress until you make
sure you won't have to rework the whole front end of your project down the
line. Education via the school of hard knocks.
> Anyone out there have the Corvair mount bolt specs?
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:34 AM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
>
>
> I'm using the JabiruUSA mount for the 3300 on mine. I also have a 912 mount
that came off a flying 601. I asked Nick this question too. It is probably
in the archives. His answer was to go ahead and drill it per plans so I could
build the fueslage. He had the ZAC supplied mounts in mind, of course. I did
drill the holes then and it worked out fine for the JabiruUSA mount years later
when I bought my engine and FWF. Even though the JabiruUSA mount needed to
be even more accurate than the 912 mount, it was. Accurate placement of the
holes in the firewall is the key. The 912 mount has a plate at each corner that
allows the builder to define the exact location of the holes in the mount too.
No problems.
>
>
> Jeff Davidson
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Maxson
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:46 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
>
>
> I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall with no
problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the engine mounts compared
to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the kit. I just unbolted my
four mount points, cut the tack welds for the AN bolts and had a welder tack
in four longer ones. I use the William Wynne engine mount and he can tell you
the bolt lengths (or just measure them when you get the engine mount).
>
> I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.
>
> Phil Maxson
> 601XL/Corvair
> Northwest New Jersey
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: naumuk@alltel.net
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:53 -0400
>
> All-
>
> I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been trying
to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO PLANS AND MOUNT
A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Bill Naumuk
>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
>
>
> Corvair people-
>
> Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and install
the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of the braces
down the line? To drill or not to drill...
>
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> i'm making a difference. Make e/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=wlmailtagline' target='_new'>Join Now.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Corvair firewall- bolt length |
The spool thickness on the Wynne motor mounts are the same as the spools on
the motor mounts shown on the Zenith plans for the Lycoming O-235 mount on
6-YE-2. I know because I measure the spools on my WW mount. From base to top
the length is 38 mm. Repeating the quote from an e-mail from Nick he
recommended:
"In the latest edition, we no longer weld the bolt to the engine mount
fitting. For the lower engine mount fittings, installing the bolt after the
fitting is installed to the fuselage allows for better alignment.
For a 38mm long bushing, allow approximately 3mm to go through the fitting,
the doubler and firewall = 41mm A better bolt to use is an AN6-22A (grip
length = 1-11/16")"
-- Craig
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: "new" 701 kit |
I have been buying the 701 sub kit by sub kit, and have noticed more and
more pre-drilling.
The skins for my wings and flaperons were all pre-drilled. The skins for my
tail kit ( bought a year ago ) were not.
With the RV kits even the ribs come pre-driled and ready to cleco. When you
talk about the RV quickbuild kits the wings are almost complete with only
one skin per wing not fully riveted.
Good luck and DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 4/14/07, LouB <LBuckley122@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the "new" standard STOL CH 701 kit
> now includes many CNC pre-cut and pre-drilled skins and components. How
> extensive is the pre-drilling. Are the assembly manuals improved.
>
> I notice the the build times have been reduced. Will the Zenith 701 ever
> get to the RV12's matched hole construction level.
>
> Also, has anyone looked into the CH701 Quick Build Kit for Flight Crafters
> in FA. Where is it quick built (CZ or the Philippines or locally). I'm
> just ploting and planning so I don't want to bother them ... but I wonder
> about the price of the Quick Build option.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106878#106878
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system suggestions |
Certificated aircraft use magneto ignition systems that don't rely on
the electrical system to operate. With a mechanical pump, these
engines can continue run if the entire electrical system fails.
That's why they have mechanical pumps. They have electric pumps to
push the air out of the lines and get fuel to the mechanical pump and
carb to allow the engine to start and continue to run in the nose
high attitude during climb.
I assume you have an automotive type ignition system that relies on
electrical power to drive it. In that case, it doesn't matter that
both of your pumps are electric. If you lose the electrical system,
and that's about the only way you could lose both pumps, you are a
glider pilot anyway.
Electric fuel pumps are more reliable than mechanical pumps. With
electric pumps, you can locate them so that you are always pushing
fuel up to the engine. Mechanical pumps must be mounted to the engine
where they will be sucking fuel up to the engine from the low-wing
mounted tanks. If you can avoid drawing a vacuum on the fuel lines,
you have a very low risk for vapor lock, especially with auto fuel.
You can always install a backup battery to run the pumps and ignition
if the main system fails.
Personally, I would put the pumps in parallel using a couple of Tees
just so you aren't pushing (or sucking) fuel through the inoperative
pump.
On Apr 14, 2007, at 11:48 AM, 601corvair wrote:
> He recommended against it on the principle that we had placed all
> our eggs in the one basket, that being the electrical system.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length |
Jay-
The manual is out? I had an e-mail with WW 4/10 and it wasn't ready for
publication yet.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair firewall- bolt length
>
> Bill,
>
> According to WW, you will need 4 AN6-23A bolts, 4 AN363-624 nuts and 4
> AN960-616 washers. This information is in the WW 601 installation
> manual.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> do not archive
>
>
> "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>>Jeff and all-
>> Wow, this has been like a newspaper treasure hunt!
>> Are HD/HDS and XL plans mount locations the same? Yes. According to
>> the archives, the XL O-235 layout will also work for Rotax and Jabiru
>> mounts on all 601s. But what about Corvair mounts?
>> According to Phil Maxson, he drilled per plans for the O-235 and
>> everything worked for his Corvair installation but for longer bolts.
>> Now, all I need is to know is the bolt specs so I can give ACS some
>> more money and I'm in business.
>> I'm sure you can imagine how hard it is to hold back progress until
>> you make sure you won't have to rework the whole front end of your
>> project down the line. Education via the school of hard knocks.
>> Anyone out there have the Corvair mount bolt specs?
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>Townville, Pa
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:34 AM
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
>>
>>
>> I'm using the JabiruUSA mount for the 3300 on mine. I also have a 912
>> mount that came off a flying 601. I asked Nick this question too. It is
>> probably in the archives. His answer was to go ahead and drill it per
>> plans so I could build the fueslage. He had the ZAC supplied mounts in
>> mind, of course. I did drill the holes then and it worked out fine for
>> the JabiruUSA mount years later when I bought my engine and FWF. Even
>> though the JabiruUSA mount needed to be even more accurate than the 912
>> mount, it was. Accurate placement of the holes in the firewall is the
>> key. The 912 mount has a plate at each corner that allows the builder to
>> define the exact location of the holes in the mount too. No problems.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Davidson
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Maxson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:46 AM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> I made my decision to use a Corvair long after mounting my firewall with
>> no problems. The only change is you need a longer bolt on the engine
>> mounts compared to the one Zenith specifies and provides with the kit. I
>> just unbolted my four mount points, cut the tack welds for the AN bolts
>> and had a welder tack in four longer ones. I use the William Wynne
>> engine mount and he can tell you the bolt lengths (or just measure them
>> when you get the engine mount).
>>
>> I am assuming the same would be true for the HDS.
>>
>> Phil Maxson
>> 601XL/Corvair
>> Northwest New Jersey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: naumuk@alltel.net
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Arrgh!!!
>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:28:53 -0400
>>
>> All-
>>
>> I must be the lousiest writer in the world, because all I've been
>> trying to find out is, CAN I ASSEMBLE ALL THE PIECES OF THE FIREWALL TO
>> PLANS AND MOUNT A CORVAIR WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE ANYTHING LATER!!
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>> Townville, Pa
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Bill Naumuk
>>
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:00 PM
>>
>> Subject: Zenith-List: I'll rephrase the question
>>
>>
>>
>> Corvair people-
>>
>> Can I lay out and attach the braces per plans to the firewall and
>> install the Corvair mount with no hassle, or will I have to move some of
>> the braces down the line? To drill or not to drill...
>>
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> i'm making a difference. Make
>> e/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=wlmailtagline'
>> target='_new'>Join Now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system suggestions |
Hi Phil,
Wing tanks are good in the HDS. The header tank does cause you to think
about current range as you use
and refill it from the wing tanks. You have to be comfortable with the
tank being in front of you and it should
be built of .040 or better. I prefer a smaller 9-1/2 gal header for
space behind the instrument panel.
Fuel pump issues are easily resolved with two pumps on the firewall in
parallel and using one during cruise.
A pump on each wing tank simplifies selective filling with a
left-right-both-off valve at the center console.
I wouldn't put a mechanical pump on the Corvair as I've replaced too
many mechanical pumps, but not
one electric pump. You shouldn't need a return line to the wing tanks
unless you're going high pressure
for fuel injection. I don't recommend it for the complexity it
represents. Carburetors are just simpler.
The Corvair is a good engine and won't let you down if you keep fuel
delivery simple and adhere to WWs
crank recommendations etc. Auto conversions can be extremely reliable if
you stay with current best practice.
I disagree on electrical pumps placed in series as one could either
starve or clog the second one. In parallel
they are each free to feed or not selectively. My HDS is set up this way
and has nearly 100 hours
running without problems. You'll find most of this is well covered in
the archives.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
601corvair wrote:
> Our project is a
> Zenith 601 HDS that has 2 ten gallon leading edge wing tanks. It
> currently calls for a plain vanilla corvair engine and an MA3 carb. TA has
>
> warmed to the idea of Corvair, although he is not crazy about it. He has
> helped people in the past with other auto-conversion and was helpful,
> but not overly enthusiastic. All that being said, here is the issue.
> During a conversation on fuel system design we showed him the William Wynne (www.flycorvair.com) design
>
> for the Zenith XL, using the 2 in series electrical pumps and no
> mechanical pump. He recommended against it on the principle that we
> had placed all our eggs in the one basket, that being the electrical
> system. His suggestion was to use one electrical pump and the corvair
> mechanical pump and fly it like a Cherokee using the electrical pump as
> a boost pump and only during take off and landing. Alternatively, he
> suggested a header tank, pumping fuel to the header and gravity feeding
> the carb. This would probably require a return line to the wing tank.
> We discussed this for sometime and
> then he asked me this. Could I name
> a certificated aircraft, low wing, that only had one type of pump to
> move fuel to the carb? If not, why did I think that was? Interesting
> question as the FAA guys fly behind lots of airplanes. I would be
> interested in any help or suggestion I can get with
> fuel systems,
> especially flying airplanes and their different fuel systems. Thanks phill
>
> *
>
> *
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length |
Bill,
The manual is not ready for publication, but it is "out." I have gotten two iterations
from WW. The first one was about 10% complete and the latest one is
about 50% complete. No telling when he will finish it. He would never admit
it, but he simply has more on his plate than he can possibly handle in a reasonable
amount of time.
Jay in Dallas
do not archive
"Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>Jay-
> The manual is out? I had an e-mail with WW 4/10 and it wasn't ready for
>publication yet.
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>Townville, Pa
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair firewall- bolt length |
Jay-
Since I'm through the firewall questions, I've got enough other stuff to
keep me busy until he finishes the manual.
Thanks.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair firewall- bolt length
>
> Bill,
>
> The manual is not ready for publication, but it is "out." I have gotten
> two iterations from WW. The first one was about 10% complete and the
> latest one is about 50% complete. No telling when he will finish it. He
> would never admit it, but he simply has more on his plate than he can
> possibly handle in a reasonable amount of time.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> do not archive
>
>
> "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Jay-
>> The manual is out? I had an e-mail with WW 4/10 and it wasn't ready
>> for
>>publication yet.
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>Townville, Pa
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | NACA Scoop in cowl |
I'm attending an EAA workshop on working with composites this weekend. I'm most
interested in knowing the tricks to finishing off the cowl that came with my
Jabiru FWF kit. Regarding installing NACA scoops in the fiberglass cowling,
the instructor asked a question which I couldn't answer so I'm tossing it out
to the group.
When installing the NACA scoop, aerodynamically is it better to square off the
edge (sharp right angle) where the cowl joins the scoop or sand a nice radius
on it?
Thanks!
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106944#106944
Message 18
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| Subject: | NACA Scoop in cowl |
Tim,
There is lots of stuff on the internet about NACA duct entrances. Google it.
I have reviewed some of it and to me, it appears that most of the fine points
are for greater efficiency at higher airspeeds. I personally don't think that
there is anything critical about installation on a Zodiac. (My very humble opinion)
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
>
>I'm attending an EAA workshop on working with composites this weekend. I'm most
interested in knowing the tricks to finishing off the cowl that came with my
Jabiru FWF kit. Regarding installing NACA scoops in the fiberglass cowling,
the instructor asked a question which I couldn't answer so I'm tossing it out
to the group.
>
>When installing the NACA scoop, aerodynamically is it better to square off the
edge (sharp right angle) where the cowl joins the scoop or sand a nice radius
on it?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106944#106944
>
>
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