Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: xxx Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (John Bolding)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Floats on CH701 (Carl Bertrand)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: xxx Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (David Downey)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (LarryMcFarland)
5. 07:27 AM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (Bryan Martin)
6. 07:27 AM - Sun shades (robert stone)
7. 10:57 AM - elev. trim authority (Tebenkof@aol.com)
8. 11:01 AM - Re: Sun shades (Edward Moody II)
9. 11:09 AM - Technical Firewall Question (Michael Valentine)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: Sun shades (Craig Payne)
11. 11:50 AM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Robin Bellach)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Jaybannist@cs.com)
13. 12:48 PM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (george may)
14. 12:51 PM - Re: elev. trim authority (nyterminat@aol.com)
15. 12:51 PM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Craig Payne)
16. 01:07 PM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Michael Valentine)
17. 01:15 PM - Re: elev. trim authority (billmileski)
18. 01:29 PM - Re: Sun shades (robert stone)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
My Glasair has manual flaps, if the Thorp doesn't give you what you want
let me know and I'll take a few pics of the flap system in my airplane.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps?
Seems like even if there are only a few of us that have this
"irrational" attachment to manual flaps, we ought to be able to come up
with a good system. I am going to evaluate the T-18 system and see if
any of it could be adapted to the XL.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Floats on CH701 |
Hi ,
I'm Canadian and built my 701 in 1994. Flew the test hrs on wheels then
switched to amphibs in 1995. The basic weight on wheels was 619 lbs, amphibs
increased to 760. The designed gross at that time was 960 lbs.
When I applied for the registration I asked for an increase in gross to
1200, I included a lettre from Chris Hentz that approved the change but with
the warning of a proportional decrease in G loading and increase in stall
speed.
The 1200 gross was accepted by the Department of Transport.
Personally I do not believe that the floats develop lift. I base that on
their shape (more like an inverted airfoil) and their negative angle of
attack in relation to the wing. I have two front frames; one gives me a -8'
the other -4' relative to the wing. With -8' frame the cruise is 4 mph less
than the -4' frame. With the -8' frame lift-off occurs at 38 mph; with
the -4' it occurs at 42 mph.
Cruise speed is decreased approx 10 mph by the addition of amphibs. I
believe the difference is caused by negative lift and form drag . I would be
concerned about increasing gross without adjusting G limits.
Regards
Carl
701/912 amphibs.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
John, I would appreciate that very much, please do - I am also going to go back
through the recent postings and find the guy with the hydraulic flaps in his
Mooney and ask if he can photocopy the owners manual for the schematic and any
other images of the system that might exist in it.
do not archive
John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net> wrote: My Glasair has manual flaps,
if the Thorp doesn't give you what you want let me know and I'll take a few
pics of the flap system in my airplane. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps?
Seems like even if there are only a few of us that have this "irrational" attachment
to manual flaps, we ought to be able to come up with a good system.
I am going to evaluate the T-18 system and see if any of it could be adapted
to the XL.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy seal Glue |
Scott,
I used a another brand of Crazy Glue called Poly Zap, the 1-minute stuff
for repair of glass etc. You only need a drop every inch or so, but it
works fine
for rubber to acrylic and it's holding up well.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Scott Laughlin wrote:
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi guys:
>
> I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one
> little nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my
> canopy. I'm using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck
> with any particular glue, please reply directly to my hotmail address
> (cookwithgas@hotmail.com)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> ==========
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy seal Glue |
I've had no trouble with 3M weatherstrip adhesive. I think I used
alcohol to clean off the mating surfaces first.
On Apr 28, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Scott Laughlin wrote:
>
> Hi guys:
>
> I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one
> little nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my
> canopy. I'm using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck
> with any particular glue, please reply directly to my hotmail
> address (cookwithgas@hotmail.com)
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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Members,
There is a man in Boone, Iowa who makes good quality sun shades for
aircraft. These are not the small round or square suction cup stick on
types but a full cover retractable shade. He has never made one for the
Zodiac601XL and would like to design a pattern for this aircraft. My
question is, if any of you out there live close to Boone, Iowa and own a
Zodiac601XL, I am sure he would be willing to come to your location for
the purpose of taking measurements from your canopy. If any one wants
to accommodate this man his name is Ralph Koger, and he can be reached
at r.koger@mchsi.com
B. Stone
Message 7
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| Subject: | elev. trim authority |
One bit of good news is that another 701 is flying. I made my first flight
last week. It was as good as all the descriptions I had heard.
One minor problem: lack of elevator trim authority. I remember in the
distant past reading about people doing various things including enlarging the
trim tab, adding VGs to the elevator, etc. The first and easiest correction
would seem to be adjusting the range of travel of the trim tab for maximum
nose up trim effect. So the question is this:
Is there a maximum effective angle between the trim tab and the elevator
control surface? An angle beyond which the trim tab effectively stalls, and
loses effectiveness?
Or in the case of an enlarged trim tab, is there a model for that which
has proven effective?
Thanks in anticipation of many words of wisdom.
Jim Greenough
100% flying (but 99% finished) in Portland
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 8
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----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: Zenith list
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun shades
Members,
There is a man in Boone, Iowa who makes good quality sun shades
for aircraft. These are not the small round or square suction cup stick
on types but a full cover retractable shade. He has never made one for
the Zodiac601XL and would like to design a pattern for this aircraft.
My question is, if any of you out there live close to Boone, Iowa and
own a Zodiac601XL, I am sure he would be willing to come to your
location for the purpose of taking measurements from your canopy. If
any one wants to accommodate this man his name is Ralph Koger, and he
can be reached at r.koger@mchsi.com
B. Stone
Hi Bob,
About 5 days ago Jim Olson posted a message to the Zenith Matronics
list regarding that very subject. Below is the post which indicates that
the ground work has already been laid for the use of the Koger sunshade
in a 601XL. My guess is that Koger keeps records and the reference to
Jim Olson's sunshade for his 601XL would probably get the job done
properly without further R&D. The email address you cited is probably
more current than the one listed in Jim's post.
Dred
Here is the Koger web site for the sun shades:
http://cleavelandtool.com/kogercompany/sunshade.htm
I was the first to order the Koger Sushade for a 601. I contacted the
factory direct rather than ordering thru Vans, or Cleavelandtools, and
ask to have the shade extended 12 inches more in length than what he had
for the RV's. He added the extra length and longer channel that is
rides in at no additional cost. That was about 5 years ago, I'm sure
prices have changed. I think his email is: rhkoger@fbx.com.
Jim Olson
CH601HDS
N56BJ 304 hrs
http://eaa1211.org/olson.html
Message 9
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| Subject: | Technical Firewall Question |
Ok Listers, I have a fairly technical question on the firewall that I need
help with -- 601XL. All references are visible on page 6B7.
6B6-3 is the Sidewall Stiffener. At the top, it sits on 6B7-1, the Firewall
Top Stiffener. 6B7-1 is made of .063 so there is quite a gap between 6B6-3
and the firewall near the top. There is no "joggling" called for in the
plans. The highest two rivets on 6B6-3 are also supposed to hit the L-angle
stiffener running diagonally from near the center of the firewall up to the
area I am discussing. Because of this angle, the top rivet has to be pretty
close to the edge of 6B7-1 - right where the largest part of the gap is.
So I guess my question is whether this is correct and acceptable. I'm sure
the rivet will pull things tighter, but I can't imagine that it will suck
the gap closed. I also can't imagine that having a gap is acceptable, as
vibration would likely jiggle the thing loose. The pieces are too thick to
joggle, but I could put a small shim under 6B6-3. Otherwise, I don't know
what to do. To those who have already done it, what did you do?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Michael in NH
601XL - working away on the fuse.
Message 10
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Roger may not realize that the XL's canopy is the same shape as that of Jim
Olsen's HDS
-- Craig
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Technical Firewall Question |
I have 6B6-3 laped on top of 6B7-1 as pictured, with no joggle, leaving
some gap. I guess I just assumed that was OK since the plans did not
provide for otherwise. The top rivets appear to have pulled tight
leaving a tapered gap from the edge of 6B7-1 down to the top rivet.
Looks like a proper joggle would be an improvement and lesson stress in
the area.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Valentine
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question
Ok Listers, I have a fairly technical question on the firewall that I
need help with -- 601XL. All references are visible on page 6B7.
6B6-3 is the Sidewall Stiffener. At the top, it sits on 6B7-1, the
Firewall Top Stiffener. 6B7-1 is made of .063 so there is quite a gap
between 6B6-3 and the firewall near the top. There is no "joggling"
called for in the plans. The highest two rivets on 6B6-3 are also
supposed to hit the L-angle stiffener running diagonally from near the
center of the firewall up to the area I am discussing. Because of this
angle, the top rivet has to be pretty close to the edge of 6B7-1 - right
where the largest part of the gap is.
So I guess my question is whether this is correct and acceptable. I'm
sure the rivet will pull things tighter, but I can't imagine that it
will suck the gap closed. I also can't imagine that having a gap is
acceptable, as vibration would likely jiggle the thing loose. The
pieces are too thick to joggle, but I could put a small shim under
6B6-3. Otherwise, I don't know what to do. To those who have already
done it, what did you do?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Michael in NH
601XL - working away on the fuse.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Technical Firewall Question |
Michael,
I just looked at mine. Apparently, I didn't have any concern about it. The rivets
in 6B6-3 are in a "zig-zag" pattern. The top two also go through the diagonal
angle that is on the cockpit side of the firewall. And, yes, there is a
gap just below 6B7-1, but it closes at the second rivet. Also, there will be
the clamping of the motor mount attachment bolt through its bracket, the firewall,
6B7-1 & 6B6-3. Finally, that is what the plans call for.
Jay in Dallas
Message 13
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| Subject: | Canopy seal Glue |
Scott--
I used Liquid nails. There are a number of formulations of this product.
The thicker, slower flowing one seems to work best in this type of
application.
George May
601XL 912s---69 hours
>From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy seal Glue
>Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 03:32:18 +0000
>
><cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi guys:
>
>I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one little
>nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my canopy. I'm
>using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck with any particular
>glue, please reply directly to my hotmail address (cookwithgas@hotmail.com)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
>Start Today!
>http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144
>
>
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: elev. trim authority |
Jim,
Not sure what you mean by lack of elevator authority. I didn=C2=B4t find any
problem with mine. If you refer to trim authority, I did what Roger suggest
ed and straightend out the trailing edge of my elevator. This allowed my tri
m to be centered in level flight. The tab is large enough as is. These 701
=C2=B4s were originally designed for the Rotax 582 enginge which was much li
ghter than the 912 or 912S. I took a 2x4 and slotted it on a table saw and w
orked it along the edge of the elevator. It came our well and straightend ea
sy even with it already being painted.
Cogratulations on your first flight!!!!
Bob Spudis
CH701/912S/106hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Tebenkof@aol.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: elev. trim authority
One bit of good news is that another 701 is flying. I made my first flight
last week. It was as good as all the descriptions I had heard.
One minor problem: lack of elevator trim authority. I remember in the dis
tant past reading about people doing various things including enlarging the
trim tab, adding VGs to the elevator, etc. The first and easiest correction
would seem to be adjusting the range of travel of the trim tab for maximum
nose up trim effect. So the question is this:
Is there a maximum effective angle between the trim tab and the elevator
control surface? An angle beyond which the trim tab effectively stalls, an
d loses effectiveness?
Or in the case of an enlarged trim tab, is there a model for that which
has proven effective?
Thanks in anticipation of many words of wisdom.
Jim Greenough
100% flying (but 99% finished) in Portland
See what's free at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL at AOL.com.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Technical Firewall Question |
The photo assembly guide shows what I think you have built. Attached is a
picture from page 10 of 6-B-06.PDF.
-- Craig
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Technical Firewall Question |
Ok, thanks everyone for the input. I just worried that this was one of
those not-too-infrequent areas of the plans/guide that left a little to be
desired.
Michael
do not archive
On 4/29/07, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>
> The photo assembly guide shows what I think you have built. Attached is a
> picture from page 10 of 6-B-06.PDF.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: elev. trim authority |
Jim,
Congrats on the flight! It's really fun to transition into getting to know your
aircraft, have fun!
Regarding the elevator trim thing, I had the same issue, I just adjusted the center
position of the tab down about 30 degrees or so. I can trim out well without
flaps, but cannot overcome stick pressure once flaps are deployed. Full up
trim (down tab) is a pretty severe angle.
I probably won't bend down the factory upward trailing lip of the elevator, because
I'm so used to it now, but bending it would probably work better and leave
the trim tab in a better deflection range, might reduce overall drag a little
even. Now that I think of it, heck, I might do it at some point.
Best of luck,
Bill Mileski
Ledyard, CT
701 912S 89 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109877#109877
Message 18
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His name is Ralph Koger!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun shades
Roger may not realize that the XL's canopy is the same shape as that
of Jim Olsen's HDS
-- Craig
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