---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/29/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:54 AM - Re: xxx Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (John Bolding) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Floats on CH701 (Carl Bertrand) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: xxx Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (David Downey) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (LarryMcFarland) 5. 07:27 AM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (Bryan Martin) 6. 07:27 AM - Sun shades (robert stone) 7. 10:57 AM - elev. trim authority (Tebenkof@aol.com) 8. 11:01 AM - Re: Sun shades (Edward Moody II) 9. 11:09 AM - Technical Firewall Question (Michael Valentine) 10. 11:32 AM - Re: Sun shades (Craig Payne) 11. 11:50 AM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Robin Bellach) 12. 11:56 AM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 12:48 PM - Re: Canopy seal Glue (george may) 14. 12:51 PM - Re: elev. trim authority (nyterminat@aol.com) 15. 12:51 PM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Craig Payne) 16. 01:07 PM - Re: Technical Firewall Question (Michael Valentine) 17. 01:15 PM - Re: elev. trim authority (billmileski) 18. 01:29 PM - Re: Sun shades (robert stone) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:36 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps? My Glasair has manual flaps, if the Thorp doesn't give you what you want let me know and I'll take a few pics of the flap system in my airplane. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps? Seems like even if there are only a few of us that have this "irrational" attachment to manual flaps, we ought to be able to come up with a good system. I am going to evaluate the T-18 system and see if any of it could be adapted to the XL. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:09 AM PST US From: "Carl Bertrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Floats on CH701 Hi , I'm Canadian and built my 701 in 1994. Flew the test hrs on wheels then switched to amphibs in 1995. The basic weight on wheels was 619 lbs, amphibs increased to 760. The designed gross at that time was 960 lbs. When I applied for the registration I asked for an increase in gross to 1200, I included a lettre from Chris Hentz that approved the change but with the warning of a proportional decrease in G loading and increase in stall speed. The 1200 gross was accepted by the Department of Transport. Personally I do not believe that the floats develop lift. I base that on their shape (more like an inverted airfoil) and their negative angle of attack in relation to the wing. I have two front frames; one gives me a -8' the other -4' relative to the wing. With -8' frame the cruise is 4 mph less than the -4' frame. With the -8' frame lift-off occurs at 38 mph; with the -4' it occurs at 42 mph. Cruise speed is decreased approx 10 mph by the addition of amphibs. I believe the difference is caused by negative lift and form drag . I would be concerned about increasing gross without adjusting G limits. Regards Carl 701/912 amphibs. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:06 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps? John, I would appreciate that very much, please do - I am also going to go back through the recent postings and find the guy with the hydraulic flaps in his Mooney and ask if he can photocopy the owners manual for the schematic and any other images of the system that might exist in it. do not archive John Bolding wrote: My Glasair has manual flaps, if the Thorp doesn't give you what you want let me know and I'll take a few pics of the flap system in my airplane. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps? Seems like even if there are only a few of us that have this "irrational" attachment to manual flaps, we ought to be able to come up with a good system. I am going to evaluate the T-18 system and see if any of it could be adapted to the XL. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:17 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy seal Glue Scott, I used a another brand of Crazy Glue called Poly Zap, the 1-minute stuff for repair of glass etc. You only need a drop every inch or so, but it works fine for rubber to acrylic and it's holding up well. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Scott Laughlin wrote: > > > Hi guys: > > I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one > little nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my > canopy. I'm using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck > with any particular glue, please reply directly to my hotmail address > (cookwithgas@hotmail.com) > > Thanks, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:04 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy seal Glue I've had no trouble with 3M weatherstrip adhesive. I think I used alcohol to clean off the mating surfaces first. On Apr 28, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Scott Laughlin wrote: > > Hi guys: > > I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one > little nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my > canopy. I'm using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck > with any particular glue, please reply directly to my hotmail > address (cookwithgas@hotmail.com) > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:26 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Sun shades Members, There is a man in Boone, Iowa who makes good quality sun shades for aircraft. These are not the small round or square suction cup stick on types but a full cover retractable shade. He has never made one for the Zodiac601XL and would like to design a pattern for this aircraft. My question is, if any of you out there live close to Boone, Iowa and own a Zodiac601XL, I am sure he would be willing to come to your location for the purpose of taking measurements from your canopy. If any one wants to accommodate this man his name is Ralph Koger, and he can be reached at r.koger@mchsi.com B. Stone ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:55 AM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: elev. trim authority One bit of good news is that another 701 is flying. I made my first flight last week. It was as good as all the descriptions I had heard. One minor problem: lack of elevator trim authority. I remember in the distant past reading about people doing various things including enlarging the trim tab, adding VGs to the elevator, etc. The first and easiest correction would seem to be adjusting the range of travel of the trim tab for maximum nose up trim effect. So the question is this: Is there a maximum effective angle between the trim tab and the elevator control surface? An angle beyond which the trim tab effectively stalls, and loses effectiveness? Or in the case of an enlarged trim tab, is there a model for that which has proven effective? Thanks in anticipation of many words of wisdom. Jim Greenough 100% flying (but 99% finished) in Portland ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:23 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sun shades ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Sun shades Members, There is a man in Boone, Iowa who makes good quality sun shades for aircraft. These are not the small round or square suction cup stick on types but a full cover retractable shade. He has never made one for the Zodiac601XL and would like to design a pattern for this aircraft. My question is, if any of you out there live close to Boone, Iowa and own a Zodiac601XL, I am sure he would be willing to come to your location for the purpose of taking measurements from your canopy. If any one wants to accommodate this man his name is Ralph Koger, and he can be reached at r.koger@mchsi.com B. Stone Hi Bob, About 5 days ago Jim Olson posted a message to the Zenith Matronics list regarding that very subject. Below is the post which indicates that the ground work has already been laid for the use of the Koger sunshade in a 601XL. My guess is that Koger keeps records and the reference to Jim Olson's sunshade for his 601XL would probably get the job done properly without further R&D. The email address you cited is probably more current than the one listed in Jim's post. Dred Here is the Koger web site for the sun shades: http://cleavelandtool.com/kogercompany/sunshade.htm I was the first to order the Koger Sushade for a 601. I contacted the factory direct rather than ordering thru Vans, or Cleavelandtools, and ask to have the shade extended 12 inches more in length than what he had for the RV's. He added the extra length and longer channel that is rides in at no additional cost. That was about 5 years ago, I'm sure prices have changed. I think his email is: rhkoger@fbx.com. Jim Olson CH601HDS N56BJ 304 hrs http://eaa1211.org/olson.html ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question Ok Listers, I have a fairly technical question on the firewall that I need help with -- 601XL. All references are visible on page 6B7. 6B6-3 is the Sidewall Stiffener. At the top, it sits on 6B7-1, the Firewall Top Stiffener. 6B7-1 is made of .063 so there is quite a gap between 6B6-3 and the firewall near the top. There is no "joggling" called for in the plans. The highest two rivets on 6B6-3 are also supposed to hit the L-angle stiffener running diagonally from near the center of the firewall up to the area I am discussing. Because of this angle, the top rivet has to be pretty close to the edge of 6B7-1 - right where the largest part of the gap is. So I guess my question is whether this is correct and acceptable. I'm sure the rivet will pull things tighter, but I can't imagine that it will suck the gap closed. I also can't imagine that having a gap is acceptable, as vibration would likely jiggle the thing loose. The pieces are too thick to joggle, but I could put a small shim under 6B6-3. Otherwise, I don't know what to do. To those who have already done it, what did you do? Any suggestions appreciated. Michael in NH 601XL - working away on the fuse. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:38 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun shades Roger may not realize that the XL's canopy is the same shape as that of Jim Olsen's HDS -- Craig ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:54 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question I have 6B6-3 laped on top of 6B7-1 as pictured, with no joggle, leaving some gap. I guess I just assumed that was OK since the plans did not provide for otherwise. The top rivets appear to have pulled tight leaving a tapered gap from the edge of 6B7-1 down to the top rivet. Looks like a proper joggle would be an improvement and lesson stress in the area. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Valentine To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question Ok Listers, I have a fairly technical question on the firewall that I need help with -- 601XL. All references are visible on page 6B7. 6B6-3 is the Sidewall Stiffener. At the top, it sits on 6B7-1, the Firewall Top Stiffener. 6B7-1 is made of .063 so there is quite a gap between 6B6-3 and the firewall near the top. There is no "joggling" called for in the plans. The highest two rivets on 6B6-3 are also supposed to hit the L-angle stiffener running diagonally from near the center of the firewall up to the area I am discussing. Because of this angle, the top rivet has to be pretty close to the edge of 6B7-1 - right where the largest part of the gap is. So I guess my question is whether this is correct and acceptable. I'm sure the rivet will pull things tighter, but I can't imagine that it will suck the gap closed. I also can't imagine that having a gap is acceptable, as vibration would likely jiggle the thing loose. The pieces are too thick to joggle, but I could put a small shim under 6B6-3. Otherwise, I don't know what to do. To those who have already done it, what did you do? Any suggestions appreciated. Michael in NH 601XL - working away on the fuse. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:47 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question Michael, I just looked at mine. Apparently, I didn't have any concern about it. The rivets in 6B6-3 are in a "zig-zag" pattern. The top two also go through the diagonal angle that is on the cockpit side of the firewall. And, yes, there is a gap just below 6B7-1, but it closes at the second rivet. Also, there will be the clamping of the motor mount attachment bolt through its bracket, the firewall, 6B7-1 & 6B6-3. Finally, that is what the plans call for. Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:08 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy seal Glue Scott-- I used Liquid nails. There are a number of formulations of this product. The thicker, slower flowing one seems to work best in this type of application. George May 601XL 912s---69 hours >From: "Scott Laughlin" >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy seal Glue >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 03:32:18 +0000 > > > >Hi guys: > >I'm finishing up my checklist for my FAA inspection and have one little >nagging problem. I can't get my seal to stay stuck to my canopy. I'm >using the standard rubber seal. If you have had luck with any particular >glue, please reply directly to my hotmail address (cookwithgas@hotmail.com) > >Thanks, > >Scott Laughlin >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > >_________________________________________________________________ >Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. >Start Today! >http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 > > _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: elev. trim authority From: nyterminat@aol.com Jim, Not sure what you mean by lack of elevator authority. I didn=C2=B4t find any problem with mine. If you refer to trim authority, I did what Roger suggest ed and straightend out the trailing edge of my elevator. This allowed my tri m to be centered in level flight. The tab is large enough as is. These 701 =C2=B4s were originally designed for the Rotax 582 enginge which was much li ghter than the 912 or 912S. I took a 2x4 and slotted it on a table saw and w orked it along the edge of the elevator. It came our well and straightend ea sy even with it already being painted. Cogratulations on your first flight!!!! Bob Spudis CH701/912S/106hrs -----Original Message----- From: Tebenkof@aol.com Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: elev. trim authority One bit of good news is that another 701 is flying. I made my first flight last week. It was as good as all the descriptions I had heard. One minor problem: lack of elevator trim authority. I remember in the dis tant past reading about people doing various things including enlarging the trim tab, adding VGs to the elevator, etc. The first and easiest correction would seem to be adjusting the range of travel of the trim tab for maximum nose up trim effect. So the question is this: Is there a maximum effective angle between the trim tab and the elevator control surface? An angle beyond which the trim tab effectively stalls, an d loses effectiveness? Or in the case of an enlarged trim tab, is there a model for that which has proven effective? Thanks in anticipation of many words of wisdom. Jim Greenough 100% flying (but 99% finished) in Portland See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:33 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question The photo assembly guide shows what I think you have built. Attached is a picture from page 10 of 6-B-06.PDF. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Technical Firewall Question Ok, thanks everyone for the input. I just worried that this was one of those not-too-infrequent areas of the plans/guide that left a little to be desired. Michael do not archive On 4/29/07, Craig Payne wrote: > > The photo assembly guide shows what I think you have built. Attached is a > picture from page 10 of 6-B-06.PDF. > > -- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:51 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: elev. trim authority From: "billmileski" Jim, Congrats on the flight! It's really fun to transition into getting to know your aircraft, have fun! Regarding the elevator trim thing, I had the same issue, I just adjusted the center position of the tab down about 30 degrees or so. I can trim out well without flaps, but cannot overcome stick pressure once flaps are deployed. Full up trim (down tab) is a pretty severe angle. I probably won't bend down the factory upward trailing lip of the elevator, because I'm so used to it now, but bending it would probably work better and leave the trim tab in a better deflection range, might reduce overall drag a little even. Now that I think of it, heck, I might do it at some point. Best of luck, Bill Mileski Ledyard, CT 701 912S 89 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109877#109877 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:04 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sun shades His name is Ralph Koger!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun shades Roger may not realize that the XL's canopy is the same shape as that of Jim Olsen's HDS -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.