Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:06 AM - Re: 601XL manual flaps? (Maarten Versteeg)
2. 08:00 AM - Another Firewall Question (Michael Valentine)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (Bryan Martin)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Floats on CH701 (ricklach)
5. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: 601XL manual flaps? (Bryan Martin)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket (PatrickW)
7. 09:21 AM - Re: Another Firewall Question (Roger Pritchard)
8. 10:04 AM - Re: 601XL manual flaps? (Matt Ronics)
9. 10:06 AM - ch 701 prop pitch (Gordon)
10. 10:21 AM - Re: Another Firewall Question (Flydog1966@aol.com)
11. 10:24 AM - Rotax 912ULS 100 hp (Alvin Rose)
12. 10:47 AM - Selling an experimental a/c (Dave Austin)
13. 11:01 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Juan Vega)
14. 12:06 PM - Re: Another Firewall Question (Craig Payne)
15. 02:45 PM - Re: ch 701 prop pitch (nyterminat@aol.com)
16. 02:58 PM - CH750 (StolBrit)
17. 03:06 PM - Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket (Tim Juhl)
18. 03:37 PM - More firewall imponderables (Bill Naumuk)
19. 04:14 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Craig Payne)
20. 04:31 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (BATAR@aol.com)
21. 04:45 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Bill Naumuk)
22. 05:20 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Randy L. Thwing)
23. 05:35 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Randy L. Thwing)
24. 05:39 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Craig Payne)
25. 05:40 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (David Downey)
26. 05:48 PM - Re: Another Firewall Question (Jeff)
27. 05:56 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Craig Payne)
28. 06:31 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (David Downey)
29. 06:46 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (PatrickW)
30. 07:18 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (R.P.)
31. 07:34 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (Bill Naumuk)
32. 07:52 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Edward Moody II)
33. 08:03 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (secatur)
34. 08:03 PM - Voltage Regulator (CHETKRU@aol.com)
35. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (David Mikesell)
36. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Edward Moody II)
37. 08:59 PM - Re: Voltage Regulator (Les Goldner)
38. 09:06 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Jim Norton)
39. 09:36 PM - Group insurance (Brandon Tucker)
40. 10:03 PM - Re: More firewall imponderables (TxDave)
41. 10:10 PM - 701 Engine mount and water hose conflict (Roger Venables)
42. 10:14 PM - Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket (TxDave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
Hello Scott,
Maybe I didn't express myself too clear, but for instance
in case of a go-around I would like to reduce the flap
setting from 40 to 20 or 30 degrees. Or with a touch and go
I would actually raise the flaps immediately. With the
switch that some Cessna's have the motor will run as long
as the switch is up till the end position is reached, this
takes time and if you only want to reduce the flaps to a
certain level the pilot has to keep track of the position.
I agree with the statement that the flap lever laying on
the floor is not the easiest item to reach, having this in
a more reachable position would be safer.
Regards,
Maarten
Scott Thatcher wrote:
> Hi Maarten,
>
> I've been trying to think of when you would need to retract the flaps
> quickly and the only time I can think of that happening was during a spot
> landing contest when the winner of the contest slow flighted the aircraft
> just short of the "spot" and dumped the flaps, which caused him to drop like
> a rock and touch down right on the mark from two feet up. No damage to
> aircraft but a superb spot landing. What other time would you need to
> retract the flaps quickly, short of trying to commit suicide?
>
> Scott Thatcher
> 601XL with Corvair 92% complete
>
> ****Original Message**********
>> >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps?
> <<I would think a screw design would make it impossible to
> quickly retract the flaps if needed.>>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Another Firewall Question |
Hi again folks,
I don't know if I am being dumb or if the firewall section is just poorly
documented, but I have more problems already. Unfortunately, I do not have
my plans in front of me so I can't give part numbers. I think it is pages
6B6 and 6B7 (maybe 8, too) -- 601XL.
There does not seem to be any measurements on the plans or in the guide as
to the center channel doubler (I think that is what it is called). The
guide says to drill those holes first, but there is nothing on the plans
about where to drill them except that they are A4/40mm! The plans just show
some hash marks, which I have never found to be accurate. So, does anyone
have specifics on where the rivet line should go?
Also, there are two wedge shaped pieces at the top on either side of the
channel. Again, there are hash marks on the plans, but no measurements as
to where the rivet lines should go.
Sorry for the non-specific references, but if you understand the questions
then I would appreciate any suggestions.
Michael in NH
601XL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
You could a use flap control system like the newer Cessnas have. The
flap control is a variable resistor that you set to any desired flap
angle and a simple control system drives the flap motor until a
feedback resistor matches the value of the control resistor. The
control lever has two detents for intermediate angles between flaps
zero and flaps full. The control circuit isn't very complicated and
could probably be rigged up from something from the local hobby shop.
On Apr 30, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Maarten Versteeg wrote:
> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>
> Hello Scott,
>
> Maybe I didn't express myself too clear, but for instance
> in case of a go-around I would like to reduce the flap
> setting from 40 to 20 or 30 degrees. Or with a touch and go
> I would actually raise the flaps immediately. With the
> switch that some Cessna's have the motor will run as long
> as the switch is up till the end position is reached, this
> takes time and if you only want to reduce the flaps to a
> certain level the pilot has to keep track of the position.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Floats on CH701 |
Hi Carl,
I would like to talk to you about getting a copy of the letter you provided with
your request of a 1200LB weight limit. I will be applying for my registration
to the FAA here in the U.S. soon and would like to do the same thing you did
and the letter would help in my request.
I can be reached at:
rick@ravengear.us or 661-345-7755
Thanks
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110005#110005
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
There was an article in the December 1997 KitPlanes magazine that
involved a push button electric flap controller for a homebuilt. You
could select a number of flap settings between zero and full with the
push of a button. If anybody has this issue, this circuit might be
easier to implement than designing a manual flap system.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket |
I did exactly the same thing that Scot did - used a slightly larger bracket and
six A-5 rivets (instead of the smaller bracket with 3 rivets).
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110015#110015
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Another Firewall Question |
Michael,
Give me a call at 603-496-7542
Roger
Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi again folks,
I don't know if I am being dumb or if the firewall section is just poorly documented,
but I have more problems already. Unfortunately, I do not have my plans
in front of me so I can't give part numbers. I think it is pages 6B6 and 6B7
(maybe 8, too) -- 601XL.
There does not seem to be any measurements on the plans or in the guide as to the
center channel doubler (I think that is what it is called). The guide says
to drill those holes first, but there is nothing on the plans about where to
drill them except that they are A4/40mm! The plans just show some hash marks,
which I have never found to be accurate. So, does anyone have specifics on where
the rivet line should go?
Also, there are two wedge shaped pieces at the top on either side of the channel.
Again, there are hash marks on the plans, but no measurements as to where
the rivet lines should go.
Sorry for the non-specific references, but if you understand the questions then
I would appreciate any suggestions.
Michael in NH
601XL
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
Those who are considering increasing the flap range would be well served to consider
the effect this will have on bending moments about the spar/wing. The 601
wing is not a Cherokee or T-18 wing....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110022#110022
Message 9
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| Subject: | ch 701 prop pitch |
Just about ready to set the initial pitch on a Woodcomp 3 blade
propeller on a 912ULS (Skyshop FWF) . Just wondering what pitch people
are using, or what number to start with.
Thanks,
Gordon
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Another Firewall Question |
In a message dated 4/30/2007 11:01:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mgvalentine@gmail.com writes:
The plans just show some hash marks, which I have never found to be
accurate. So, does anyone have specifics on where the rivet line should go?
Also, there are two wedge shaped pieces at the top on either side of the
channel. Again, there are hash marks on the plans, but no measurements as to
where the rivet lines should go.
The hash marks on the 701 plans mean - "no rivet zone".
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS 100 hp |
Hi Guys
I am lookihg for a Used Rotax 912ULS 100 HP at a reasonable
Price..Preferable with 200-300 hours on it...To be installed in my
Zenithair CH-701 STOL aircraft..Anyone know where there are used
engines available.
Alvin Rose
ajroseca@nf.sympatico.ca
Message 12
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| Subject: | Selling an experimental a/c |
Is there a lawyer, or someone who has had advice from a lawyer, out there,
with a list of smart things to do as a prerequisite before selling a
homebuilt (experimental) a/c?
I remember some discussion some years ago, but can't find it in the
archives.
Thanks.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
PS. Anybody like to buy a Spitfire? Have a look in "Trade-a-Plane"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Dave,
call AOPA or EAA, assuming you are a member, their legal department has a list
you refer to sell your aircraft.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Austin <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
>Sent: Apr 30, 2007 1:46 PM
>To: Zenith list <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Selling an experimental a/c
>
>
>Is there a lawyer, or someone who has had advice from a lawyer, out there,
>with a list of smart things to do as a prerequisite before selling a
>homebuilt (experimental) a/c?
>I remember some discussion some years ago, but can't find it in the
>archives.
>Thanks.
>Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>PS. Anybody like to buy a Spitfire? Have a look in "Trade-a-Plane"
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Another Firewall Question |
> So, does anyone have specifics on where the rivet line should go?
On the plans dated 03/04 6-B-8 calls out two rows of "A4 pitch 40" rivets
along the vertical U channel. It shown them set in from the side bends by 10
mm. The same page calls for "5 rivets A5" into the "gear gusset" (6B8-1).
The side view on that page shows the rivets in an inverted "L" pattern with
three rivets spread across the width of the side of the center U channel and
three rivets down a line parallel to the bend in the central channel. 3+3=5
because of the common rivet in the corner of the "L". To me the side view
shows that the placement of the rivets is bounded by the intersection of the
standard edge distances on the triangular gusset and the center U channel.
BTW: I don't know if you know or care but Zenith has redesigned and
strengthened the pieces on the firewall. The triangular corner gussets have
evolved into pieces 330 mm tall which reach all the way down to reinforce
the 5/8 inch pipe for the bungee. The two doublers around the hole for the
pipe are replaced by a single U-shaped piece. An angle is added across the
width of the horizontal stiffener 6B7-1 and tied to it with a vertical
plate. Angles are riveted along the two diagonal edges of the horizontal
stiffeners. I've attached an image from the 03/06 version of 6-B-8. The new
parts cost me $181 from Zenith.
> The plans just show some hash marks, which I have never found to be
accurate.
The construction manual says:
"The number of rivets is given in digits (so is the pitch - the spacing
between holes); do not attempt to count the dots from the drawings!"
-- Craig
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: ch 701 prop pitch |
Gordon
They tell you 11-13 degrees to start. I found 13 works well with a 912S.
Bob Spudis N701ZX/912S
-----Original Message-----
From: cscsail@gmavt.net
Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: ch 701 prop pitch
Just about ready to set the initial pitch on a Woodcomp 3 blade propeller on a
912ULS (Skyshop FWF) . Just wondering what pitch people are using, or what number
to start with.
Thanks,
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________
Message 16
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So, was it seen at Sun'n'Fun or wasn't it? I am tantalised by the prospect of
a faster, beefier 701 (if this is what it's to be) and I'm sure I'm not the only
one who is waiting for Zenair's 2007 announcement of a new airframe.
You know google only turns in 5 results on this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110083#110083
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket |
I took a compromise route. I replaced the middle A5 rivets with AN bolts backed
up by a large flat washer to distribute the load over a larger area. I have
no idea whether the result is any stronger than the part would be as designed
but it made me feel better :-)
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110088#110088
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bellcrank_557.jpg
Message 18
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| Subject: | More firewall imponderables |
All-
If I were just risking a chunk of .025 I wouldn't care, but we're
talking .040 here. Built a 4' Dave's brake over the weekend and this is
my first job on it.
The DL of the stiffener blank is 141mm (Top drawing), but the sum of
the flanges and center of the finished piece (Bottom drawing) is 145mm.
Am I supposed to add 2mm/side to the DL to account for the 1/8"R? Makes
sense, but my question is, is this drawing the norm or an exception so I
know what to do in the future?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Message 19
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| Subject: | More firewall imponderables |
No matter what theoretical answer you get I would cut out a narrow 1-2 inch
wide cross section test piece, bend it and check the results.
-- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Do not archive
I went to Sun-'n-fun 2 years ago and attended a seminar by a lawyer on this
subject. He was a specialist in aviation law, and his bottom line was that
if you have substantial assets, the best thing to do with the plane was to
destroy it, to avoid any liability.
If you did not have enough assets to make it worth someone's effort to come
after you, then it would be okay to sell it. (Could anyone destroy a plane?)
He did not define what level of net worth would invite litigation in the
event of an accident.
Al Massey
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
Craig-
I just noticed that another part on the same print page had a DL
less than the finished. Maybe the metal gets stretched during forming. I
might be overanalysing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
No matter what theoretical answer you get I would cut out a narrow 1-2
inch wide cross section test piece, bend it and check the results.
-- Craig
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
Hey Bill:
The DL always seems to be less that the total sum of the lengths.
The best example of this is the standard "L", The plans show each side
as being 19mm (38 total) yet the DL is 36mm. I don't think it is the
metal stretching during bending, but in some mysterious way, once the
part is formed, you are measuring the bend radius twice, once from each
direction. I think that allows for the missing material, right?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive/
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
Craig-
I just noticed that another part on the same print page had a DL
less than the finished. Maybe the metal gets stretched during forming. I
might be overanalysing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
Hey Bill:
I forgot to mention I agree with Craig that one should make some
test bends, especially since you are usuing a new brake. You will find
a
"sweet" spot somewhere under the nose of the brake tongue where when you
position your stock with the bend mark, once you bend the metal, your
mark will be in the center of the radius. I've sent pictures before
showing bending standard "L" on the TAPCO siding brake. I've found that
if I shove the metal under the tongue, so that the bend marks are barely
visible when "eyeballing" them at about a 45 degree angle from above,
puts the marks in the center of the bend radius every time. This is not
too crucial when bending "L" etc., because if your off a little, you
just wind up with one leg of the "L" a little longer that the other.
But when you are bending channel, where you are trying to wind up with a
specific channel width, you need to know where to locate the bend marks
on YOUR brake to accomplish the correct radius, located in the right
place twice, to accomplish the finished channel width.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, do not archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
Craig-
I just noticed that another part on the same print page had a DL
less than the finished. Maybe the metal gets stretched during forming. I
might be overanalysing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
No matter what theoretical answer you get I would cut out a narrow
1-2 inch wide cross section test piece, bend it and check the results.
-- Craig
Message 24
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| Subject: | More firewall imponderables |
The numbers from current XL plans (6-B-7 dated 03/06) are the same: The flat
piece measures 141 deep. The two flanges are listed as 30 and 20. After the
bend the three sides are 30, 95 and 20 with the developed length given as
137.
I've read a number of definitions of developed length and still don't see
how 137 fits in to all this. In what way (if any) do I have to apply 137?
30+95+20=145. I agree with Randy that difference between 141 and 145 in part
comes from double counting the curve.
On the other hand IMHO this is one part where the dimension of the two legs
of the "U" could end up being over a bit and not cause any harm. I may be
overlooking something but I don't see where some extra length in the legs
would interfere with another part (at least on the XL).
-- Craig
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
When I lay it out at 30 x 95 x 20 in 0.040" thickness, add the .125" bend radius,
the outer surface DL is 141. The inner surface DL is 138. Looks like the 141
is good.
I have always made the bends then trimmed the flanges when I did not have production
tooling to position and feed the workpiece...
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote: All-
If I were just risking a chunk of .025 I wouldn't care, but we're talking
.040 here. Built a 4' Dave's brake over the weekend and this is my first job
on it.
The DL of the stiffener blank is 141mm (Top drawing), but the sum of the
flanges and center of the finished piece (Bottom drawing) is 145mm. Am I supposed
to add 2mm/side to the DL to account for the 1/8"R? Makes sense, but my
question is, is this drawing the norm or an exception so I know what to do in
the future?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Another Firewall Question |
Do not archive
Strengthening the firewall has been a constant process. My HD plans just
show a couple Ls where the triangular gussets used to be. I upgraded to the
triangles, added the U channel on the cabin side, used the thicker XL
"shelf" and retained the old L pattern from the HD plans in addition. I saw
what Craig is describing in the current Kitplanes article on the quick build
kit. Certainly the firewall and nose gear continue to undergo
strengthening. There must be a reason .... Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Another Firewall Question
> So, does anyone have specifics on where the rivet line should go?
On the plans dated 03/04 6-B-8 calls out two rows of "A4 pitch 40" rivets
along the vertical U channel. It shown them set in from the side bends by 10
mm. The same page calls for "5 rivets A5" into the "gear gusset" (6B8-1).
The side view on that page shows the rivets in an inverted "L" pattern with
three rivets spread across the width of the side of the center U channel and
three rivets down a line parallel to the bend in the central channel. 3+3=5
because of the common rivet in the corner of the "L". To me the side view
shows that the placement of the rivets is bounded by the intersection of the
standard edge distances on the triangular gusset and the center U channel.
BTW: I don't know if you know or care but Zenith has redesigned and
strengthened the pieces on the firewall. The triangular corner gussets have
evolved into pieces 330 mm tall which reach all the way down to reinforce
the 5/8 inch pipe for the bungee. The two doublers around the hole for the
pipe are replaced by a single U-shaped piece. An angle is added across the
width of the horizontal stiffener 6B7-1 and tied to it with a vertical
plate. Angles are riveted along the two diagonal edges of the horizontal
stiffeners. I've attached an image from the 03/06 version of 6-B-8. The new
parts cost me $181 from Zenith.
> The plans just show some hash marks, which I have never found to be
accurate.
The construction manual says:
"The number of rivets is given in digits (so is the pitch - the spacing
between holes); do not attempt to count the dots from the drawings!"
-- Craig
Message 27
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| Subject: | More firewall imponderables |
BTW: on the current XL plans this piece is made of 0.063, not 0.040. Is that
why the listed DL is different: 137 on the XL vs. 141 on the HD?
-- Craig
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
If fyou want to work it out for yourselves, check one of the following for the
formulas: AC43.13-1B/2A, AC65-15, Tony Bingelis' books on homebuilt fabrication.
What you are seeing is the difference between the two side measurements of the
.125" radius and the length of the arc swept in that corner.
"Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote: Hey Bill:
The DL always seems to be less that the total sum of the lengths. The best
example of this is the standard "L", The plans show each side as being 19mm
(38 total) yet the DL is 36mm. I don't think it is the metal stretching during
bending, but in some mysterious way, once the part is formed, you are measuring
the bend radius twice, once from each direction. I think that allows
for the missing material, right?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive/
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
Craig-
I just noticed that another part on the same print page had a DL less
than the finished. Maybe the metal gets stretched during forming. I might
be overanalysing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
This matches what was presented by a speaker at Oshkosh last year.
Also, I know of a guy who "donated" his airframe to a local school after cutting
the spars. He wanted to use the engine for another project.
When I decided on a project to build, I intentionally did not account for resale
value, since I do not expect to sell the plane.
Salvage parts off it someday? Yes. Sell it? No way.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110136#110136
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
You're seeing the "setback" or "bend allowance".
http://www.engineersedge.com/bend_allow_calc.htm
The "DL" (developed length) will always be smaller than the totals of the
flanges because of the radius in the bend.
Don't sweat it too much, just be sure your parts nest together nicely.
Rick
601HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
All-
If I were just risking a chunk of .025 I wouldn't care, but we're
talking .040 here. Built a 4' Dave's brake over the weekend and this is my
first job on it.
The DL of the stiffener blank is 141mm (Top drawing), but the sum of the
flanges and center of the finished piece (Bottom drawing) is 145mm. Am I
supposed to add 2mm/side to the DL to account for the 1/8"R? Makes sense,
but my question is, is this drawing the norm or an exception so I know what
to do in the future?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6:30 AM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
All, update-
.040 bends a lot harder than .032. Don't center on the edges of your
brake, center on the hold-down bolts. Still works acceptably well. I
wound up with 32mm, 22mm, and 95mm, which is what I was shooting for.
WJN
Tom-
I tried a test piece and found out two things.
1. The DL is adequate to come up with the finished part. Probably
a combination of material stretch and a trig compensation for the
radius.
2. Dave says you can build the brake out of either 3" or 4"
angle. WHAT FOLLOWS IS NOT A SLAM AT DAVE!! Sometimes a
solution is so simple you can't believe you're so stupid. Standard 3"
angle is 1/4" thick, but 4" is 3/16". I built mine out of 4", because
that's what they had at the junkyard. It never occurred to me that a
larger angle would be thicker. Duh! I'm not worried, because the
additional radius makes for a stronger part, up to a point. 1/32"R is
not that point.
The target dimensions were 20mm and 30mm flanges, with a center
section of 95mm. Going right to the flange lines, I wound up with 23mm,
33mm, and 93mm. So if I cut down on the flange mark lines by 1mm, I'll
be right on for the center section, and within +/- 2mm for the flanges.
As good or better than kit parts.
By the way, the test piece of .032 bent like butter using the 4"
angles. I have a total outlay of $18.72 in a 4' brake, not counting 2
rods, the electricity to weld the handle, and a 2 year old partially
used can of Rust-Oleum. If there's ever a category for "Backyard
invention of the century", I'll nominate Dave's Brake.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Henderson
To: naumuk@alltel.net
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
Hi Bill,
The metal does indeed stretch as you form it. Generally we
refer to this as a Bend Deduction or Bend Allowance, depending on how
it's being measured. Using Dave Clay's brake (which works well by the
way), the only safe way of making sure it's correct is to do a test
bend.
Mark a piece of material with the actual length of the desired
flange and use that mark to locate the test bend. Measure the resulting
flange when you're done, and adjust the marks on the actual part by
whatever amount your first flange is off. I know this is elementary. I
don't mean to talk down to anyone, but that's about as complicated as it
gets.
You could use the standard formula for calculating a Bend
Deduction, but Dave's brake isn't exact enough to result in a good part
using this method. In fact, each builder's verion of Dave's Brake will
bend slightly differently based on how far the top angle is offset from
the bottom.
Long story short, you'll want to make a test bend or just bite
the bullet and hope you're first bend is close enough. If you plan to
do a lot of bending on the brake, it's a good idea to start a chart with
the offset values for future reference.
Hope this helps,
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
Craig-
I just noticed that another part on the same print page had a
DL less than the finished. Maybe the metal gets stretched during
forming. I might be overanalysing.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: More firewall imponderables
No matter what theoretical answer you get I would cut out a
narrow 1-2 inch wide cross section test piece, bend it and check the
results.
-- Craig
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
the many
===========
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Keep the plane intact. Destroy any frivolous, lottery-minded plaintiffs.
Spare the lawyers... we might need them for real estate transactions
someday. Just my two cents worth.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: BATAR@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Selling an experimental a/c
Do not archive
I went to Sun-'n-fun 2 years ago and attended a seminar by a lawyer on
this subject. He was a specialist in aviation law, and his bottom line
was that if you have substantial assets, the best thing to do with the
plane was to destroy it, to avoid any liability.
If you did not have enough assets to make it worth someone's effort to
come after you, then it would be okay to sell it. (Could anyone destroy
a plane?)
He did not define what level of net worth would invite litigation in
the event of an accident.
Al Massey
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Geez, it must be TERRIBLE to live in such a litigious country !!!
How do you ever get anything done or accomplished with the Sword Of Damocles alway
hanging over your deals and transactions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110153#110153
Message 34
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| Subject: | Voltage Regulator |
Hi Folks, I am looking for information on how to find a Voltage Regulator
for my Zodiac XL. I have a Lycoming 0-235-N2C that came supplied with a Kelly
Aerospace Alternator, it is a 12v.,70a.AXL-8521-LS. Any thoughts or
information will be greatly appreciated. I am finishing my firewall forward and
this
will just about complete that phase. I have tried most parts houses with out
too much success.
Chet Kruleski
Las Vegas, NV
N929RS
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
I have sold a few ultralights and experimentals over the past 20 years and
have yet to be sued over any of them. Yes a few owners have dented and bent
them after buying them and nothing has happened.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Selling an experimental a/c
>
> This matches what was presented by a speaker at Oshkosh last year.
>
> Also, I know of a guy who "donated" his airframe to a local school after
> cutting the spars. He wanted to use the engine for another project.
>
> When I decided on a project to build, I intentionally did not account for
> resale value, since I do not expect to sell the plane.
>
> Salvage parts off it someday? Yes. Sell it? No way.
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110136#110136
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Geez, it must be TERRIBLE to live in such a litigious country !!!
How do you ever get anything done or accomplished with the Sword Of
Damocles alway hanging over your deals and transactions?
It's quite simple, actually..... we threatened to sue the crap out of
Damocles until he put the damned thing back in its scabbard.
Dred
Message 37
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| Subject: | Voltage Regulator |
Chet,
Suggest you contact B&C at www.BandC.biz. They specialize in aircraft
electrical stuff and are very helpful.
Rgds,
Les
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CHETKRU@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Voltage Regulator
Hi Folks, I am looking for information on how to find a Voltage Regulator
for my Zodiac XL. I have a Lycoming 0-235-N2C that came supplied with a
Kelly Aerospace Alternator, it is a 12v.,70a.AXL-8521-LS. Any thoughts or
information will be greatly appreciated. I am finishing my firewall forward
and this will just about complete that phase. I have tried most parts houses
with out too much success.
Chet Kruleski
Las Vegas, NV
N929RS
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 38
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| Subject: | re: Selling an experimental a/c |
I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there would
like to get rid of part or better yet - all of their a/c, I would be
glad to take it off your hands. As a contribution to a worthy person
(me!), I'm sure we could come to a iron clad agreement that would
absolve you of any and all liability.
Message 39
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Did anyone find out about group insurance. I remember
some talk about it a few months ago when I was more
active on the list, but can't find any conclusions in
the archives. I am waiting for quotes from AIG,
Falcon, AVEMCO, and two others that I can't remember
the names... I'll report back their different numbers
when I get them all in.
R/
Brandon
601 HDS / TD / Corvair
84 hours
Now in Apple Valley, Ca.
__________________________________________________
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
Thanks for the kind words, Bill. I built my brake from 3" angle and didn't realize
4" was thicker. I'll be sure to change the plans to reflect that fact.
By the way, I have a link to a great bend line calculator on my website. It was
created by fellow scratch builder Larry Winger. It helps take the guess work
out of figuring out multiple bends.
Craig's advice for doing test bends, and Randy's comment on finding the "sweet
spot" are right on the money.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601XL from plans
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110170#110170
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| Subject: | 701 Engine mount and water hose conflict |
I am having a problem with the cooling hose from the front left hand
cylinder: it is getting in the way of attaching the E1-1X steel bracket to
the Engine (Rotax 912ULS)
Anyone else experience the same problem and if so what is the solution.
The photo guide says as follows "Detail of left side. If necessary, remove
the engine and file a radius on the aft edge of the steel bracket E1-1X to
make room for the hose"
Trouble is it will take quite a chunk out of the bracket get the hose to fit
and even then will constrict the flow, I think.
Any ideas?
Roger Venables
.CH701 -installing engine
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets for Aileron bellcrank bracket |
Its amazing how creative the posters on this group can be. I used solid rivets
in place of the A5's. Probably overkill, but...
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110173#110173
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