Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Micro limit switches (wade jones)
2. 05:46 AM - Limit switches & more (Zed Smith)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Group insurance (Juan Vega)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: Micro limit switches (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 07:10 AM - Re: Micro limit switches (wade jones)
6. 07:43 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:55 AM - Velcro (Jaybannist@cs.com)
8. 08:10 AM - 601XL nose gear (wade jones)
9. 08:18 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (ashontz)
10. 08:26 AM - 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (ashontz)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: 601XL nose gear (Bryan Martin)
12. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Tom Henderson)
13. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Bryan Martin)
14. 09:00 AM - Selling ...... (Zed Smith)
15. 09:09 AM - Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (TxDave)
16. 09:21 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Gig Giacona)
17. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c ()
18. 09:41 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (ashontz)
19. 09:43 AM - Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (ashontz)
20. 10:07 AM - Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (Tim Juhl)
21. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (baileys)
22. 10:17 AM - Re: Micro limit switches (TxDave)
23. 10:17 AM - Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (ashontz)
24. 10:18 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (ashontz)
25. 11:17 AM - Re: 601XL manual flaps? (Maarten Versteeg)
26. 11:32 AM - Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge (TxDave)
27. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Paul Mulwitz)
28. 11:53 AM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (ashontz)
29. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Micro limit switches (wade jones)
30. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Frank Stutzman)
31. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Micro limit switches (Craig Payne)
32. 01:31 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Mitch Hodges)
33. 01:54 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Gig Giacona)
34. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Art Gibeaut)
35. 02:46 PM - Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Gig Giacona)
36. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Micro limit switches (wade jones)
37. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: More firewall imponderables (Bill Naumuk)
38. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Bryan Martin)
39. 03:32 PM - Re: Velcro (kevinbonds)
40. 03:53 PM - Re: Velcro (Jaybannist@cs.com)
41. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Micro limit switches (LarryMcFarland)
42. 05:43 PM - Re: Prop Pitch (Brad Larson)
43. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Selling an experimental a/c (Juan Vega)
44. 06:25 PM - Brake cylinder locations (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
45. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: Micro limit switches (wade jones)
46. 08:36 PM - Stratomaster Enigma (DONNIE LATHAM)
47. 08:55 PM - Re: Velcro (kevinbonds)
48. 09:16 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Craig Payne)
49. 09:26 PM - Selling an Experimental (Joe)
50. 09:27 PM - Selling an Experimental (Joe)
51. 11:38 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
52. 11:42 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Micro limit switches |
Hello group ,can anyone on the list direct me to a source where I can
buy a limit switch for my flap motor on my 601XL . Thanks
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 2
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| Subject: | Limit switches & more |
do not archive
www.digikey.com
Latest 2200-page catalog lists several. Snap/limit switches start about page 1801.
Easy to order, just insert plastic money.
Regards,
Zed
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Group insurance |
group insurance for what? aircraft coverage, life?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>Sent: May 1, 2007 12:34 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Group insurance
>
>
>Did anyone find out about group insurance. I remember
>some talk about it a few months ago when I was more
>active on the list, but can't find any conclusions in
>the archives. I am waiting for quotes from AIG,
>Falcon, AVEMCO, and two others that I can't remember
>the names... I'll report back their different numbers
>when I get them all in.
>
>R/
>
>Brandon
>601 HDS / TD / Corvair
>84 hours
>Now in Apple Valley, Ca.
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Hi Wade,
Digikey is a great online seller of all sorts of electronic stuff
including just about every switch known to man. You can get there
with: http://www.digikey.com/
The bad news is that limit switches usually are designed as part of
an integrated electromechanical package including the motor,
switches, and lead screw or other means of moving your stuff. You
might find designing your own limit switch system a bit overwhelming.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 04:44 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
>Hello group ,can anyone on the list direct me to a source where I
>can buy a limit switch for my flap motor on my 601XL . Thanks
>Wade Jones South Texas
>601XL plans building
>Cont. 0200
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Thanks a lot ,Paul & Zed .That site is just what I needed .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Micro limit switches
Hello group ,can anyone on the list direct me to a source where I can
buy a limit switch for my flap motor on my 601XL . Thanks
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
I understand you are joking but you bring up part of the problem. Nobody has yet
to come up with an iron clad agreement to do that.
In 2002 I had to sign the waiver from Zenith and so did my wife. But my minor son
didn't and he won't be a minor any more by the time the plane is flying (knock
wood). I can't sign away any claim he might make.
Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they should but
until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
norton(at)optonline.net wrote:
> I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there would
> like to get rid of part or better yet - all of their a/c, I would be
> glad to take it off your hands. As a contribution to a worthy person
> (me!), I'm sure we could come to a iron clad agreement that would
> absolve you of any and all liability.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110225#110225
Message 7
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Listers,
I have been using Tony Benglis' "kitchen" wire tie wraps to organize my wiring
bundles. However, I have discovered a Velcro product that is much easier to use.
It is called "Plant Ties." It is not a full-blown, typical Velcro, but good
enough for a temporary tie; easy to apply and easy to un-do for revisions.
I found it in the garden department at Lowe's.
This made me wonder about using Velcro "One-Wrap" as a permanent wire bundle tie.
One-Wrap is that Velcro band that is about 3/4" wide and has "fuzz" on one
side and "hooks" on the other. I have been using pieces of this for years to
organize my laptop wires & "stuff" for travel. It would sure be easier to remove
to manage wiring than plastic tie wraps. Any thoughts?
Jay in Dallas
Message 8
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Hello group ,another question .When building the nose gear leg .In
attaching the 3/4" .035 tubes to the 2" leg I assume that a 3/4" hole
is drilled thru the 2" leg in two places and the tubes are welded
together .The reason for asking this question is I thought for strength
requirements these may be stubed on without drilling the 2" leg .Are
they stubbed on or do they go thru holes in the 2". Thanks
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I understand you are joking but you bring up part of the problem. Nobody has
yet to come up with an iron clad agreement to do that.
>
> In 2002 I had to sign the waiver from Zenith and so did my wife. But my minor
son didn't and he won't be a minor any more by the time the plane is flying (knock
wood). I can't sign away any claim he might make.
>
> Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they should but
until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> norton(at)optonline.net wrote:
> > I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there would
> > like to get rid of part or better yet - all of their a/c, I would be
> > glad to take it off your hands. As a contribution to a worthy person
> > (me!), I'm sure we could come to a iron clad agreement that would
> > absolve you of any and all liability.
>
So you're saying even the Zenith Aircraft Company is in danger of serious litigation?
What if you incorporate, build the plane in the corporations name, and
have the corporation sell the plane and keep $2,500 in a corporate account. "OK,
sue me, you can have $2,500. Have a nice day." They try to attach wages to
the corporation you dissolve it and start a new 'airplane company'. Seems to work
for the big boys. I know AOPA advocated this for joint aircraft ownership.
Why not for aircraft manufacturing?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110234#110234
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar edge |
Anyone know what this dimension is? My plans only shows the measurement from the
inboard spar ends for the top skin (120mm from rib #1 centerline). I can't imagine
it would be the same for the bottom skin due to the fact that the wing
dihedral would most likely make this measurement greater than the top.
Thanks
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110237#110237
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL nose gear |
I would think it would be better to pass it through holes. That way,
even if the welds crack, your suspension won't collapse. This may or
may not weaken the 2" tube slightly, but if that's the way it was
designed, it probably isn't significant. I built mine from the kit so
I don't recall how that part is assembled.
On May 1, 2007, at 11:10 AM, wade jones wrote:
> Hello group ,another question .When building the nose gear leg .In
> attaching the 3/4" .035 tubes to the 2" leg I assume that a 3/4"
> hole is drilled thru the 2" leg in two places and the tubes are
> welded together .The reason for asking this question is I thought
> for strength requirements these may be stubed on without drilling
> the 2" leg .Are they stubbed on or do they go thru holes in the
> 2". Thanks
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
I'd rather spend the $2500 on a Nicaraguan hit-man to stop the litigation at
it's source. This country is starting to resemble what the rest of the world
thinks of it. A sad statement if you watch the international news at all.
For whatever reason, taking responsibility for one's own actions has stopped
being a way of life around here. Man up America...
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I understand you are joking but you bring up part of the problem. Nobody has
yet to come up with an iron clad agreement to do that.
>
> In 2002 I had to sign the waiver from Zenith and so did my wife. But my minor
son didn't and he won't be a minor any more by the time the plane is flying (knock
wood). I can't sign away any claim he might make.
>
> Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they should but
until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> norton(at)optonline.net wrote:
> > I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there would
> > like to get rid of part or better yet - all of their a/c, I would be
> > glad to take it off your hands. As a contribution to a worthy person
> > (me!), I'm sure we could come to a iron clad agreement that would
> > absolve you of any and all liability.
>
So you're saying even the Zenith Aircraft Company is in danger of serious litigation?
What if you incorporate, build the plane in the corporations name, and
have the corporation sell the plane and keep $2,500 in a corporate account. "OK,
sue me, you can have $2,500. Have a nice day." They try to attach wages to
the corporation you dissolve it and start a new 'airplane company'. Seems to work
for the big boys. I know AOPA advocated this for joint aircraft ownership.
Why not for aircraft manufacturing?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110234#110234
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
The best defense against lawsuits is to be a small target. If there
isn't big chunks of money to be made, most lawyers won't bother with
the case.
On May 1, 2007, at 11:17 AM, ashontz wrote:
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
>> I understand you are joking but you bring up part of the problem.
>> Nobody has yet to come up with an iron clad ...
>>
>> norton(at)optonline.net wrote:
>>> I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there
>>> would ...
>
>
> So you're saying even the Zenith Aircraft Company is in danger of
> serious litigation? What if you incorporate, build the plane in the
> corporations name, and have the corporation sell the plane and keep
> $2,500 in a corporate account. "OK, sue me, you can have $2,500.
> Have a nice day." They try to attach wages to the corporation you
> dissolve it and start a new 'airplane company'. Seems to work for
> the big boys. I know AOPA advocated this for joint aircraft
> ownership. Why not for aircraft manufacturing?
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 14
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do not archive
My old Daddy always said there was more than one way to skin a cat....sometimes
you have to start at the OTHER end.
That said, one might sell a "collection of parts"......like selling a stamp collection;
some of the stamps are stuck together.
In this case the parts are bolted, riveted, glued, clamped, welded, etc, together
for ease of warehousing; not easily misplaced that way.
Just give the buyer a Materials List; an Inventory of the collection.
Or, sell it as an Engine Test Stand.
Good luck,
Zed
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar |
edge
Hey Andrew,
They both are mounted with the inboard edge 120mm from the center line of rib #1.
The dihedral is figured in when you trim the skins (see page 6-W-9). I scratched
my head over this one also.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110247#110247
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Of course they are. The waiver just gives them some protection.
While the corporate idea can protect you somewhat. Corporate veils get lifted all
the time. An individual that incorporates just for the protection offered from
liability litigation lead the pack.
Byran has the best answer. But it basically it boils down to this. If you need
to sell your experimental because you need the money. Go ahead you are too small
a target to be concerned. If you don't need the money an can afford to have
the cash tied up in something that you really don't want any more, don't sell
it.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
ashontz wrote:
>
> So you're saying even the Zenith Aircraft Company is in danger of serious litigation?
What if you incorporate, build the plane in the corporations name, and
have the corporation sell the plane and keep $2,500 in a corporate account.
"OK, sue me, you can have $2,500. Have a nice day." They try to attach wages to
the corporation you dissolve it and start a new 'airplane company'. Seems to
work for the big boys. I know AOPA advocated this for joint aircraft ownership.
Why not for aircraft manufacturing?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110250#110250
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they should but
until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
Gig is absolutely correct here. The wild card is the definition of negligence as
defined by a judge and/or jury. The working concept is that nobody can ever
agree to negligent treatment under any circumstances. So, if the court finds the
seller negligent (and that can be done totally detached from reality) the signature
on the hold harmless agreement means exactly nothing. He's also right
that it is a shame that it works that way.
Dred
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
[quote="admin(at)arachnidrobotics"]I'd rather spend the $2500 on a Nicaraguan hit-man
to stop the litigation at it's source. This country is starting to resemble
what the rest of the world thinks of it. A sad statement if you watch the
international news at all.
For whatever reason, taking responsibility for one's own actions has stopped
being a way of life around here. Man up America...
Gig Giacona wrote:
> I understand you are joking but you bring up part of the problem. Nobody has
yet to come up with an iron clad agreement to do that.
>
> In 2002 I had to sign the waiver from Zenith and so did my wife. But my minor
son didn't and he won't be a minor any more by the time the plane is flying
(knock wood). I can't sign away any claim he might make.
>
> Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they should
but until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> norton(at)optonline.net wrote:
> > I'm on the front end of beginning a 601 XL. If anyone out there would
> > like to get rid of part or better yet - all of their a/c, I would be
> > glad to take it off your hands. As a contribution to a worthy person
> > (me!), I'm sure we could come to a iron clad agreement that would
> > absolve you of any and all liability.
>
>
>
So you're saying even the Zenith Aircraft Company is in danger of serious litigation?
What if you incorporate, build the plane in the corporations name, and
have the corporation sell the plane and keep $2,500 in a corporate account. "OK,
sue me, you can have
> [b]
I totally agree, this country is effed up. Mayeb the real estate collapse and petro
dollar collapse/trade deficit blowup ushering in hyperinflation in this country
and ensuing Great Depression 2 will eventually solve things once it all
pans out.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110254#110254
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar |
edge
TxDave wrote:
> Hey Andrew,
> They both are mounted with the inboard edge 120mm from the center line of rib
#1. The dihedral is figured in when you trim the skins (see page 6-W-9). I scratched
my head over this one also.
>
> Dave Clay
Thanks. I starting mounting the skin flush with the edge of the spars and figured
I'd just trim later. Od they'd give you one measurement and not the other.
Start that second wing yet?
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110255#110255
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar |
edge
Andy,
I'm working on the left wing as we speak so I went out and took a couple of measurements.
I'm building from the kit so my skins are the CNC'd ones with pre-drilled
pilot holes.
I believe the 120 mm measurement mentioned in a previous post refers to the leading
edge. I assumed you were talking about the rear skin so between the two
of us you should get what you need.
>From RR1 to the IB edge of the skin - 102 mm
>From RR1 to the IB end of the forward spar - 190 mm
The skin hangs 40 mm beyond the end of the rear spar
>From RR1 to the end of the skin beyond the rear spar - 110 mm
Hope this helps!
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110258#110258
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
How about having the buyer sign a contract to the affect that they
understand the it is not an aircraft, but is intended as an educational
aeronautical device for display purposes only, never intended for
flight. Any attempts to fly the device will almost certainly fail. That
they will further agree to never actually fly the device and if they do
violate the terms of the agreement that you will be held blameless by
them or their heirs or any insuing parties that may eventually come into
possesion of said educational device?? <big grin>
Bob B.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Hey Wade,
Try these folks.
http://www.mouser.com/microswitch/
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110261#110261
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar |
edge
Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> From RR1 to the IB end of the forward spar - 190 mm
>
> Tim
I have 120mm for this measurement per the plans. I'm sure you'll be trimming that
back. I just installed the bottom skin full length and will trim later when
I fit wing.
Thanks
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110260#110260
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
[quote="baileys(at)ktis.net"]How about having the buyer sign a contract to the
affect that they understand the it is not an aircraft, but is intended as an
educational aeronautical device for display purposes only, never intended for
flight. Any attempts to fly the device will almost certainly fail. That they
will further agree to never actually fly the device and if they do violate
the terms of the agreement that you will be held blameless by them or their
heirs or any insuing parties that may eventually come into possesion of said
educational device??
Bob B.
> [b]
I like that one
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110262#110262
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL manual flaps? |
Hello Brian,
I have seen such nice systems and agree that these make
operations of the flaps very simple. But this would defy
the idea behind the move to a simple, non-electrical system
to extend the flaps.
IN response to a deferent remark concerning the flaps, I
would not be considering increasing the flap range, the
flap effect is sufficient, it is just that it would seem
nice if the flaps could be extended without requiring an
electrical system.
Regards,
Maarten
Bryan Martin wrote:
> Time: 08:53:27 AM PST US
> From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL manual flaps?
>
>
> There was an article in the December 1997 KitPlanes magazine that
> involved a push button electric flap controller for a homebuilt. You
> could select a number of flap settings between zero and full with the
> push of a button. If anybody has this issue, this circuit might be
> easier to implement than designing a manual flap system.
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Bottom rear wing skin dist from inboard spar |
edge
Tim is correct. The 120mm measurement is the leading edge skin. DOH!
do not archive
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110269#110269
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
At 07:42 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
>Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they
>should but until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
Personally, I liked the idea in one of Robert Heinlein's books where
he talks about "the day we hung all the lawyers." That said, I think
our country would be a lot better place if we limited the number of
lawyers that were given licenses to about 1/10 the number we now
have. There are so many of them looking for an easy buck that nobody
is safe from nuisance law suits.
Still, if you really must sell your plane, I think the best way to
protect yourself is to make sure the buyer acknowledges that the
plane is "'Experimental" and was built by an "Amateur" with no
qualifications at all to perform the task in a safe manner. The
buyer realizes the plane may kill him and assumes he knows better
than the seller that he is taking a risk he wants. This may not do
any good in court, but it might stop a reasonable heir or victim from
suing for damages should the plane turn into a statistic.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote:
> At 07:42 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
>
>
> > Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they
> > should but until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
> >
> >
>
> Personally, I liked the idea in one of Robert Heinlein's books where
> he talks about "the day we hung all the lawyers."
This is a wonderful idea. Damn parasites.
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110273#110273
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Thanks Dave ,always good to have another source .I still need some more
response to my earlier question about the nose gear tube .Could someone look
at the factory gear and tell me if the 3/4" tubes go all the way thru or
are they only stubbed on .I feel sure almost sure that they go thru the 2" .
Thanks do not archive
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Micro limit switches
>
> Hey Wade,
>
> Try these folks.
> http://www.mouser.com/microswitch/
>
>
> Dave Clay
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110261#110261
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
On Tue, 1 May 2007, ashontz wrote:
> p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote:
>> Personally, I liked the idea in one of Robert Heinlein's books where
>> he talks about "the day we hung all the lawyers."
>
>
> This is a wonderful idea. Damn parasites.
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't mean to be defending them, but...
If lawyers didn't have clients they wouldn't be sueing. Lawyers are the
symptoms of a problem, not the problem itself.
In other words, we are very often our own worse enemeys.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID)
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
>> Could someone look at the factory gear and tell me if the 3/4" tubes go
all the way thru or are they only stubbed on.
Yes, both the tube that the bungee hooks to and the tube that the steering
rods connect to pass all the way through. I just slid a wire through both.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
This is always an interesting subject when it comes up, but I have to wonder how
much of a "real" issue it is. While I agree there is always a risk, have there
been any large settlements based on the sale of an experimental?
There sure to seem to be plenty of experimentals that change hands on a regular
basis, but I can't recall reading any real litigation around it.
I would think some of these would have shown up in one of the flying mags at least
as an editorial at some point. Have I just missed them?
Of course, I definitely suffer from that "not a big enough target" syndrome so
I probably wouldn't worry if I needed to sell.
Mitch Hodges
--------
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Wings Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110279#110279
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
It won't hurt but a person can't sign away the rights of another (in this case
heirs). Also, it might just get thrown right out of court if the buyer or the
heirs can show that it was signed with a "wink".
If you want to ground the aircraft just shred the AW certificate. It will protect
you just as much as taking off the wings and beating them with a hammer with
the added benefit that it doesn't mess up the paint job.
One thing to remember in all this, I'm not a lawyer though there are several I'd
like to shoot.
baileys(at)ktis.net wrote:
> How about having the buyer sign a contract to the affect that they understand
the it is not an aircraft, but is intended as an educational aeronautical device
for display purposes only, never intended for flight. Any attempts to fly
the device will almost certainly fail. That they will further agree to never
actually fly the device and if they do violate the terms of the agreement
that you will be held blameless by them or their heirs or any insuing parties
that may eventually come into possesion of said educational device??
> Bob B.
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110282#110282
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Reading this makes me wonder how many pilots and
aircraft owners there are presently in Congress. I
know how many Lawyers there are. Too many. Maybe we as
a group should consider doing something about this in
the next election, at least to the best of our
ability. Hmmmmm.
--- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> It won't hurt but a person can't sign away the
> rights of another (in this case heirs). Also, it
> might just get thrown right out of court if the
> buyer or the heirs can show that it was signed with
> a "wink".
>
> If you want to ground the aircraft just shred the AW
> certificate. It will protect you just as much as
> taking off the wings and beating them with a hammer
> with the added benefit that it doesn't mess up the
> paint job.
>
> One thing to remember in all this, I'm not a lawyer
> though there are several I'd like to shoot.
>
>
> baileys(at)ktis.net wrote:
> > How about having the buyer sign a contract to the
> affect that they understand the it is not an
> aircraft, but is intended as an educational
> aeronautical device for display purposes only,
> never intended for flight. Any attempts to fly the
> device will almost certainly fail. That they will
> further agree to never actually fly the device and
> if they do violate the terms of the agreement that
> you will be held blameless by them or their heirs
> or any insuing parties that may eventually come
> into possesion of said educational device??
> > Bob B.
> > [b]
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110282#110282
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Unless we all move to the same congressional district we'd have no effect at all.
But on the good side there are several pilots in Congress. On the bad side
they are so damn stupid that they wrote a law that stopped themselves from flying
even in their own aircraft.
agibeaut wrote:
> Reading this makes me wonder how many pilots and
> aircraft owners there are presently in Congress. I
> know how many Lawyers there are. Too many. Maybe we as
> a group should consider doing something about this in
> the next election, at least to the best of our
> ability. Hmmmmm.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110286#110286
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Thanks Craig ,thats what I needed to know .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Micro limit switches
>
>>> Could someone look at the factory gear and tell me if the 3/4" tubes go
> all the way thru or are they only stubbed on.
>
> Yes, both the tube that the bungee hooks to and the tube that the steering
> rods connect to pass all the way through. I just slid a wire through both.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: More firewall imponderables |
Dave-
The fact that I found 2 pieces of 3" at the junkyard and couldn't find
another is responsible all the discrepancies. Had to go with 4" for the
hold-down piece. I figured out a +/- 2mm correction, and I only have a
handfull of bends left to make, so I'm not worried.
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: More firewall imponderables
>
> Thanks for the kind words, Bill. I built my brake from 3" angle and didn't
> realize 4" was thicker. I'll be sure to change the plans to reflect that
> fact.
>
> By the way, I have a link to a great bend line calculator on my website.
> It was created by fellow scratch builder Larry Winger. It helps take the
> guess work out of figuring out multiple bends.
>
> Craig's advice for doing test bends, and Randy's comment on finding the
> "sweet spot" are right on the money.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> 601XL from plans
> http://www.daves601xl.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110170#110170
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
Lawyers often actively search for potential clients. Some have even
been known to pay hospital workers to refer accidents victims to
them. If the lawyer had any ethics, he would not accept a case that
had no real merit, but greed takes over and they gamble on a case
that they might win and get 40% of the take. Lawyers are not just a
symptom of the problem, they are part of the problem but not the
whole problem. The biggest issue is that the lawyer risks little or
nothing by taking a meritless case to trial but the defendant has to
spend a pile of money to defend himself whether he wins or loses.
On May 1, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Frank Stutzman wrote:
>
> If lawyers didn't have clients they wouldn't be sueing. Lawyers
> are the symptoms of a problem, not the problem itself.
>
> In other words, we are very often our own worse enemeys.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 39
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My only thought is:
Normal Velcro will burn and probably smoke. I would use plenum ties or fire
retardant Velcro. Something like this
http://www.htnetwork.com/details.aspx?p=GT.75X180MV2
You wouldn't want to add to the toxic fumes in the cabin in case of a small
electrical fire.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Velcro
Listers,
I have been using Tony Benglis' "kitchen" wire tie wraps to organize my
wiring bundles. However, I have discovered a Velcro product that is much
easier to use. It is called "Plant Ties." It is not a full-blown, typical
Velcro, but good enough for a temporary tie; easy to apply and easy to un-do
for revisions. I found it in the garden department at Lowe's.
This made me wonder about using Velcro "One-Wrap" as a permanent wire bundle
tie. One-Wrap is that Velcro band that is about 3/4" wide and has "fuzz" on
one side and "hooks" on the other. I have been using pieces of this for
years to organize my laptop wires & "stuff" for travel. It would sure be
easier to remove to manage wiring than plastic tie wraps. Any thoughts?
Jay in Dallas
Message 40
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Kevin,
I wasn't aware that such a product existed. Looks like it would do what I suggested
for Velcro, but safely.
Thanks - Jay
Do not archive
"kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>My only thought is:
>
>Normal Velcro will burn and probably smoke. I would use plenum ties or fire
>retardant Velcro. Something like this
>http://www.htnetwork.com/details.aspx?p=GT.75X180MV2
>
>You wouldn't want to add to the toxic fumes in the cabin in case of a small
>electrical fire.
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Plans building.
>
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
>do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:52 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Velcro
>
>
>Listers,
>
>I have been using Tony Benglis' "kitchen" wire tie wraps to organize my
>wiring bundles. However, I have discovered a Velcro product that is much
>easier to use. It is called "Plant Ties." It is not a full-blown, typical
>Velcro, but good enough for a temporary tie; easy to apply and easy to un-do
>for revisions. I found it in the garden department at Lowe's.
>
>This made me wonder about using Velcro "One-Wrap" as a permanent wire bundle
>tie. One-Wrap is that Velcro band that is about 3/4" wide and has "fuzz" on
>one side and "hooks" on the other. I have been using pieces of this for
>years to organize my laptop wires & "stuff" for travel. It would sure be
>easier to remove to manage wiring than plastic tie wraps. Any thoughts?
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Wade,
The steering tube goes all the way thru the strut tube and the weld
recovers the strength
of both. A stubbed tube would likely not do the job for long.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
wade jones wrote:
>
> Thanks Dave ,always good to have another source .I still need some
> more response to my earlier question about the nose gear tube .Could
> someone look at the factory gear and tell me if the 3/4" tubes go all
> the way thru or are they only stubbed on .I feel sure almost sure that
> they go thru the 2" . Thanks do not archive
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
>
>
Message 42
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If Lonnie suggests a P-Tip Carbon 67x42 I have one I would like to trade
for a better climb prop.
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 09:05 -0500, Southern Reflections wrote:
> Call lonnie Prince, tell him what your HP. is ,ENG . RPM is , and
> what type plane you have. he will tell you what you need. Joe N101HD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LRM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 11:09 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Pitch
>
>
> Has anyone got a Prince P-tip 2 blade on a 701 with about 100
> hp engine? If so, what length and pitch do you recommend?
> Thanks
>
>
> Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Selling an experimental a/c |
to all,
build the plane, fly the crap out of it, then sell it when you need to, cover your
ass with the right documentation, there is even coverage you can buy. thats
it, move on.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: May 1, 2007 2:42 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Selling an experimental a/c
>
>
>At 07:42 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
>
>>Liability releases almost never stand up in court. It sucks and they
>>should but until we get the ABA out of Washington they won't.
>
>Personally, I liked the idea in one of Robert Heinlein's books where
>he talks about "the day we hung all the lawyers." That said, I think
>our country would be a lot better place if we limited the number of
>lawyers that were given licenses to about 1/10 the number we now
>have. There are so many of them looking for an easy buck that nobody
>is safe from nuisance law suits.
>
>Still, if you really must sell your plane, I think the best way to
>protect yourself is to make sure the buyer acknowledges that the
>plane is "'Experimental" and was built by an "Amateur" with no
>qualifications at all to perform the task in a safe manner. The
>buyer realizes the plane may kill him and assumes he knows better
>than the seller that he is taking a risk he wants. This may not do
>any good in court, but it might stop a reasonable heir or victim from
>suing for damages should the plane turn into a statistic.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>do not archive
>
>
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| Subject: | Brake cylinder locations |
Gang:
Because of the way my gun-drilled Grove gear is set up, it would be a
much cleaner installation if the right brake line came from the co-pilot
side right pedal and the left brake line from the pilot side left pedal.
Does anyone see anything wrong with putting the master cylinders on the
inboard pedals and the slave cylinders on the outboard pedals? Each
pilot position would have one master and one slave cylinder, instead of
putting the masters on one side and the slaves on the other.
Thanks,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Micro limit switches |
Thanks Larry ,thats the way I thought it sould be .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Micro limit switches
>
> Wade,
> The steering tube goes all the way thru the strut tube and the weld
> recovers the strength
> of both. A stubbed tube would likely not do the job for long.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
> wade jones wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Dave ,always good to have another source .I still need some more
>> response to my earlier question about the nose gear tube .Could someone
>> look at the factory gear and tell me if the 3/4" tubes go all the way
>> thru or are they only stubbed on .I feel sure almost sure that they go
>> thru the 2" . Thanks do not archive
>> Wade Jones South Texas
>> 601XL plans building
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Stratomaster Enigma |
Does anyone on the list have a Stratomaster Enigma? How do you like
it? Any problems? Would appreciate info. from anyone. Trying to decide
between DYNON 180 or ENIGMA.
Message 47
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Glad to help Jay. I used to do network cable installations. We were not
allowed to use anything but plenum ties in false ceilings where ventilation
air was circulated because they would pollute the air with toxic fumes
during an invisible fire in the ceiling. BTW, Plenum ties are always red,
but I don't think all red ties are plenum.
For the archives:
Use plenum cable ties or plenum Velcro for bundling electrical wires in the
cabin area. These will not give off toxic fumes in a fire. Something like
this http://www.htnetwork.com/details.aspx?p=GT.75X180MV2
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
Message 48
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| Subject: | Stratomaster Enigma |
I have one but have not flown it yet. It is running on my bench. There is a
Yahoo group with about 250 members at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stratomaster_users_group/
Matt at Sport Flying Shop is the US dealer and has been great. The
Stratomaster line has evolved so quickly that I have traded up twice. Each
time Matt has given me almost what I paid for the older models (although
they were in perfect shape).
In general I think Rainier (head of MGL) is more responsive than Dynon to
requests. A number of us asked for a weight and balance screen and Rainier
released a very nice one in a week.
Where are you located? There may be an Enigma near you to look at.
If you have any other questions please ask on the list or direct.
-- Craig
Message 49
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| Subject: | Selling an Experimental |
Dave,
No matter how iron tight you have a resale agreement, they can still drag
you into court and make your life miserable! I would love to know just how
many homebuilt litigation problems ever make it to court. I know of a lot of
friends that buy and sell homebuilts and factory builts and I have not
personally seen any problems after the sale, but I'm sure there have been
cases! I used this agreement when I sold a homebuilt a few years ago. It was
written by a lawyer and I'm sure you may be able to pull out a few sentences
and make your own.
THIS AGREEMENT AND BILL OF SALE made and entered into this _______ day of
March, 2000 at the Buyers residence in Oshkosh, Wisconsin by and between
*********(seller), and
_________________________________________________________ (Buyer), an adult
residing at
For and in consideration of $00000 dollars, receipt of which is
acknowledged, seller does hereby sell and transfer unto Buyer, all Sellers
right, title, and interest in the aircraft parts thereof, as registered with
the Federal Aviation Administration, ******, model *******, together with
such log books and other records in his possession, relating to said
aircraft, disclaiming any liability for the completeness or the accuracy of
any such logs or records. Said aircraft is without engine and the wings have
been removed. The aircraft is not airworthy. To the best of Sellers
knowledge, said aircraft is not subject to any security interest or other
encumbrances.
Buyer acknowledges that he is buying a homebuilt aircraft and that
Buyer has inspected the aircraft, or has caused the same to be inspected,
and accepts same in its present as is, where is condition. Buyer shall be
responsible for the removal of the aircraft from seller's premises.
Buyer acknowledges that Seller is the registered owner, and Seller
makes absolutely no representations, promises, statements, or warranties,
expressed or implied, with respect to the registration, fitness of the
aircraft, or any other condition whatsoever, and Seller shall not be liable
to the buyer for any loss, claim, demand, liability, cost, damage, or
expense of any kind caused by or alleged to be caused, directly or
indirectly, or arising out of Buyers possession or use of the aircraft or
the transportation thereof, or any inadequacy or any defect in such
aircraft, or any damage, whatsoever or howsoever caused, and Buyer agrees to
indemnify and hold the seller harmless from and against any and all such
losses, claims, demands, liabilities, from the sale, use, or transportation
of said Aircraft.
It is further agreed that Buyer shall be responsible for the
registration (including fees) of said aircraft as required by the Federal
Aviation Administration, and by the State of ******, Department of
Transportation, Bureau of Aeronautics.
Hope this helps!
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 50
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| Subject: | Selling an Experimental |
Dave,
No matter how iron tight you have a resale agreement, they can still drag
you into court and make your life miserable! I would love to know just how
many homebuilt litigation problems ever make it to court. I know of a lot of
friends that buy and sell homebuilts and factory builts and I have not
personally seen any problems after the sale, but I'm sure there have been
cases! I used this agreement when I sold a homebuilt a few years ago. It was
written by a lawyer and I'm sure you may be able to pull out a few sentences
and make your own.
THIS AGREEMENT AND BILL OF SALE made and entered into this _______ day of
March, 2000 at the Buyers residence in Oshkosh, Wisconsin by and between
*********(seller), and
_________________________________________________________ (Buyer), an adult
residing at
For and in consideration of $00000 dollars, receipt of which is
acknowledged, seller does hereby sell and transfer unto Buyer, all Sellers
right, title, and interest in the aircraft parts thereof, as registered with
the Federal Aviation Administration, ******, model *******, together with
such log books and other records in his possession, relating to said
aircraft, disclaiming any liability for the completeness or the accuracy of
any such logs or records. Said aircraft is without engine and the wings have
been removed. The aircraft is not airworthy. To the best of Sellers
knowledge, said aircraft is not subject to any security interest or other
encumbrances.
Buyer acknowledges that he is buying a homebuilt aircraft and that
Buyer has inspected the aircraft, or has caused the same to be inspected,
and accepts same in its present as is, where is condition. Buyer shall be
responsible for the removal of the aircraft from seller's premises.
Buyer acknowledges that Seller is the registered owner, and Seller
makes absolutely no representations, promises, statements, or warranties,
expressed or implied, with respect to the registration, fitness of the
aircraft, or any other condition whatsoever, and Seller shall not be liable
to the buyer for any loss, claim, demand, liability, cost, damage, or
expense of any kind caused by or alleged to be caused, directly or
indirectly, or arising out of Buyers possession or use of the aircraft or
the transportation thereof, or any inadequacy or any defect in such
aircraft, or any damage, whatsoever or howsoever caused, and Buyer agrees to
indemnify and hold the seller harmless from and against any and all such
losses, claims, demands, liabilities, from the sale, use, or transportation
of said Aircraft.
It is further agreed that Buyer shall be responsible for the
registration (including fees) of said aircraft as required by the Federal
Aviation Administration, and by the State of ******, Department of
Transportation, Bureau of Aeronautics.
Hope this helps!
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 51
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Zenith-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Zenith-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Zenith-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
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****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
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The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
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Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
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was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
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*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
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Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
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*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
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When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
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If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
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Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
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*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
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Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
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*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
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If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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