---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/10/07: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:24 AM - Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Martin Pohl) 2. 07:44 AM - 601 Crash (Tom) 3. 07:47 AM - Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Gig Giacona) 4. 09:44 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Gig Giacona) 5. 10:03 AM - Dual stick 601xl (flyingmike9) 6. 10:09 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Tim Juhl) 7. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (george may) 8. 10:27 AM - Re: 601 Crash (steveadams) 9. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (John Davis) 10. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Flydog1966@aol.com) 11. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (John Davis) 12. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Juan Vega) 13. 11:12 AM - Tach wiring for Stratus (Bill Steer) 14. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Juan Vega) 15. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Juan Vega) 16. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (William Dominguez) 17. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 11:38 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 19. 11:39 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Gig Giacona) 20. 11:49 AM - Re: Dual stick 601xl (Gig Giacona) 21. 12:04 PM - Re: Tach wiring for Stratus (LarryMcFarland) 22. 12:15 PM - Re: Dual stick 601xl (Dave Johnson) 23. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Dual stick 601xl (Kurt A. Schumacher) 24. 12:22 PM - Re: 601 Crash (PatrickW) 25. 01:11 PM - Re: Dual stick 601xl (flyingmike9) 26. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Terry Turnquist) 27. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Dual stick 601xl (Jaybannist@cs.com) 28. 01:34 PM - Re: Dual stick 601xl (flyingmike9) 29. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Paul Riedlinger) 30. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (kevinbonds) 31. 02:03 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Gig Giacona) 32. 02:05 PM - Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Craig Payne) 33. 02:21 PM - Re: 601 Crash (swater6) 34. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (n801bh@netzero.com) 35. 02:38 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Gig Giacona) 36. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Flydog1966@aol.com) 37. 02:47 PM - Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Gig Giacona) 38. 02:48 PM - Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Gig Giacona) 39. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Flydog1966@aol.com) 40. 02:58 PM - Re: 601 Crash (revdjd) 41. 03:25 PM - 601 Crash (Bill Naumuk) 42. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Craig Payne) 43. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area (Craig Payne) 44. 04:32 PM - Re: 601 Crash (kevinbonds) 45. 04:57 PM - Re: 601 Crash (PatrickW) 46. 05:07 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Jerry Hey) 47. 05:12 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Steve Hulland) 48. 05:17 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Mark Sherman) 49. 06:05 PM - Re: 601 Crash (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 50. 06:25 PM - Re: 601 Crash (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 51. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (LarryMcFarland) 52. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 53. 10:16 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Joemotis@aol.com) 54. 10:43 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area From: "Martin Pohl" Hi Zodiac flyers Is there anybody in the LAX or SFO area that has a flying CH601XL and would take me for a flight with his or her airplane? I am building an XL here in Switzerland and hope to get the plane flying next year, but never flew in an XL (nor any other Zenith-design) yet. Working as an F/O for Lufthansa I fly to LAX and SFO regularly (e.g. next week to SFO, free day on Sunday 20th may). I can either rent a car in San Francisco or rent a plane at Torrance airfield, so anything within 1-2h-driving range from San Francisco or 1h-flying range from LA would be perfect. Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112013#112013 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash From: "Tom" Noticed a 601 in the NTSB data base. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070509X00539&key=1 -------- Tom CH801 http://tompizza.webhop.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112020#112020 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area From: "Gig Giacona" Martin you might get in touch with quality sports planes. http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/ They are in Cloverdale which is north of SFO. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112023#112023 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "Gig Giacona" News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list I'm familiar with. http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Dual stick 601xl From: "flyingmike9" i have a 601xl with dual stick mod when moving the sticks in the back forth motion all is well but when the sticks are moved forward then left or right the control rod end catchs the horn on the control connection the control connection has a dual horn on it not a single connection like on the building pictures the control rod end is clamped between the two horns but this then catches see pictures to understand (i hope) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112046#112046 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00051_128.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00050_145.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "Tim Juhl" Here we go again..... another XL that came apart in the air. Apparently there was nasty weather in the area and one might speculate that the pilot flew into conditions that resulted in the destructive overstress of the aircraft. I found a link to a local newspaper account that provides a little info but no answers. http://www.woodwardnews.net/archivesearch/local_story_123090303.html With all due respect to Zenith and Chris Heintz, as an XL builder I cannot help but want to know why such things are happening. This is the third XL to lose it's wings since Feb 06. Tim -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112049#112049 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:47 AM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash This is getting scary. Isn't this the third plane that had the wings fold back or fall off?! do not archive George May 601XL 912s--73 hours >From: "Gig Giacona" >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash >Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:43:17 -0700 > > > >News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list >I'm familiar with. > >http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 > > _________________________________________________________________ Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "steveadams" Tim Juhl wrote: > Here we go again..... another XL that came apart in the air. Apparently there was nasty weather in the area and one might speculate that the pilot flew into conditions that resulted in the destructive overstress of the aircraft. I found a link to a local newspaper account that provides a little info but no answers. > > http://www.woodwardnews.net/archivesearch/local_story_123090303.html > > With all due respect to Zenith and Chris Heintz, as an XL builder I cannot help but want to know why such things are happening. This is the third XL to lose it's wings since Feb 06. > > Tim Before we get all bent out of shape, this sounds like a typical outcome of a pilot loosing control in IMC conditions and subsequently overstressing the airframe. Visibility 2 statute miles, heavy rain, scattered clouds 200 feet, broken clouds 800 feet, overcast clouds 2,000 feet... not the ideal conditions for sport pilot operations. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112051#112051 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:03 AM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash I'm familiar with the accident in CA in which the wings separated (the Hooker Zodiac) but what is the other accident thats being referred to ? I cant seem to locate any other fatal accidents with wing separation in the ntsb database. Thanks, John Davis Burnsville, NC 601XL Quickbuild george may wrote: > > This is getting scary. Isn't this the third plane that had the wings > fold back or fall off?! > > do not archive > > George May > 601XL 912s--73 hours > > >> From: "Gig Giacona" >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash >> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:43:17 -0700 >> >> >> >> News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the >> list I'm familiar with. >> >> http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html >> >> -------- >> W.R. "Gig" Giacona >> 601XL Under Construction >> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith Windows Live Hotmail. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:47 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris field. Was that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:27 AM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash It was a 601, no drugs, newly purchased plane, . Report at http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1 do not archive Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: > Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in > California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris > field. Was that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:27 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash is that N701DP? paint on cowl looks like 701DPs from AMD. -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: May 10, 2007 12:43 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash > > >News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list I'm familiar with. > >http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:13 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Zenith-List: Tach wiring for Stratus A question for those of you who are using steam guages and the dual-ignition Stratus engine... Mikal says to attach the tach lead to the negative side of the coil. How is that best done for the dual ignition setup? Would a DPDT switch work, one side for switching the ignition and the other side for switching the tach? Thanks for any help or advice. Bill ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:48 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash never mind 701DP is registered to Dayton Pilot's club, different owner. WHo is it? -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: May 10, 2007 12:43 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash > > >News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list I'm familiar with. > >http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:06 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash it was a kit built with continental motor, based in oklahoma. registered 2005. -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: May 10, 2007 12:43 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash > > >News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list I'm familiar with. > >http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:30 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash The accident where drugs where found in the pilot was another inflight breakup in an 801. The other inflight breakup happen to another 601XL in Yuba city California. The first case was a 601XL where the wing folded up and crash, also in California. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris field. Was that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive. --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:04 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Hi George, Yes, it is certainly scaring me. I am expecting to do my first flight in a few months (maybe early next spring). I seem to remember reports of 4 structural failures in the last year or so, but it might be only 3. I wrote to ZAC asking if they are working on any design changes to beef up the structure. I also wrote to the advisors at EAA to ask if this is normal for kit planes or cause for alarm. If I get any interesting answers I will post them to the list. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 10:17 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote: > >This is getting scary. Isn't this the third plane that had the >wings fold back or fall off?! > >do not archive > >George May >601XL 912s--73 hours ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:39 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Corvair Engine Thanks for the information on the Carvair engines Bill. I went to Pull-A-Part today in South Atlanta and both cars had the engines BUT neither could be turned with a wrench so they still have them. Jerry-GA ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "Gig Giacona" The question I have is who built the aircraft. The NTSB report states "Walker Zodiac" and Walker was not the owner/pilot's name. It's clearly VFR flight into IMC. Do LSA certificated pilots do any of the hood time that PP do? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112072#112072 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl From: "Gig Giacona" Is that the factory mod? Because the one I got from Zenith isn't made like that. It only has the single horn. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112076#112076 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:18 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach wiring for Stratus Hi Bill, I've got a schematic that may help you with this one. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/Ignition-Dual-Dizzy-and-TP4.gif Larry McFarland www.macsmachine.com Bill Steer wrote: > > A question for those of you who are using steam guages and the > dual-ignition Stratus engine... Mikal says to attach the tach lead to > the negative side of the coil. How is that best done for the dual > ignition setup? Would a DPDT switch work, one side for switching the > ignition and the other side for switching the tach? > > Thanks for any help or advice. > > Bill > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:09 PM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual stick 601xl I had exactly the same problem, it binds when the sticks are fully forward, but only when they are moved to the left. My kit is the CZAW version (I'm in the UK), they weren't very helpful when I queried it with them. The problem seems to be that the spacing between the 2 horns is too narrow to allow you to fit the bushes that all the other rod-ends have. What I did was to carefully grind back the side of the rod-end that was fouling. I suspect that, when the elevator cables are attached and the elevator stops installed, the fore and aft stick movement will be limited so it won't be a problem. Dave Johnson 601XL - working on the wiring ----- Original Message ----- From: "flyingmike9" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Dual stick 601xl > > i have a 601xl with dual stick mod > when moving the sticks in the back forth motion all is well but when the > sticks are moved forward then left or right the control rod end catchs the > horn on the control connection > the control connection has a dual horn on it not a single connection like > on the building pictures the control rod end is clamped between the two > horns but this then catches see pictures to understand (i hope) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:52 PM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl Hi Gig, Dual stick was an option offered by CZAW. Regards, -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl > Is that the factory mod? Because the one I got from Zenith isn't made like that. It only has the single horn. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "PatrickW" Mr Walker must have been the original builder. Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity. Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? Patrick 601XL / Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112088#112088 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl From: "flyingmike9" thanks guys dave were abouts in uk i am also in the uk in worcester do you have a picture of your mod did you get the bushes to fit or leave them out Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112097#112097 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:30 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt. Terry Turnquist 601 XL-Plans St. Peters, MO PatrickW wrote: Mr Walker must have been the original builder. Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity. Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? Patrick 601XL / Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112088#112088 --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:37 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl My XL kit-supplied dual stick horn only has a single plate and ball-joint rod ends at both the horn and the bellcrank. Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dual stick 601xl From: "flyingmike9" hi i think that it is a CZAW mod but it does not work it was bought from CZAW but i would prefer the USA kit have left messages with CZAW but as they no longer sell the zenair series they are not much help (no at all really) the updates on the drawings state that the rods should be made shorter this also does not work with the CZAW dual stick kit hopefully grinding away the small amount of the horn will do the trick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112104#112104 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:06 PM PST US From: "Paul Riedlinger" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Actually it might hurt. All designs have certain flexibility designed into them. By stiffening things up you might just be making it worse. Having said that, I am not an aero-engineer but I do let those that are make any mods to major parts of my plane. Paul Riedlinger paulried@rogers.com From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Turnquist Sent: May-10-07 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt. Terry Turnquist 601 XL-Plans St. Peters, MO PatrickW wrote: Mr Walker must have been the original builder. Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity. Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? Patrick 601XL / Corvair Read this topic online _____ Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:31 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Yeah, this is getting scary. We really need a better system for keeping up with accidents. We really need to lobby these FAA investigators to take photos of critical components in these accidents and allow them to be viewed. We need to know if the bolts were in tact etc. How can we get this done? I may go talk to my local office tomorrow to see what I can find out. We need more info. Even the final FAA reports, are not very concise. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PatrickW Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Mr Walker must have been the original builder. Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity. Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? Patrick 601XL / Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112088#112088 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "Gig Giacona" While that doesn't sound like a bad idea I would run the modification by Zenith first. Making a bigger hole for a bigger bolt might create problems of its own. I'd sure like to hear their response as I'm sure other here would. Let's look as the facts as we know them. A low time LSA pilot flew the aircraft in IMC. That is a situation that will end in a crash more often than not. And an admittedly quick look at the LSA PTS does not show any required hood time. So for LSA marginal VFR should be considered IFR. ter_turn(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt. > > Terry Turnquist > 601 XL-Plans > St. Peters, MO > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112113#112113 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:26 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area In addition to Quality Sports Planes in Cloverdale, Dragonfly Aviation offers instruction in an XL in Santa Rosa (about a half hour closer to SFO). Dragonfly and QSP work together. Depending on traffic Santa Rosa is about 1.5 hours from SFO. www.qualitysportplanes.com http://dragonflyaviation.com I've attached a picture of Dragonfly's XL. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Pohl Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area Hi Zodiac flyers Is there anybody in the LAX or SFO area that has a flying CH601XL and would take me for a flight with his or her airplane? I am building an XL here in Switzerland and hope to get the plane flying next year, but never flew in an XL (nor any other Zenith-design) yet. Working as an F/O for Lufthansa I fly to LAX and SFO regularly (e.g. next week to SFO, free day on Sunday 20th may). I can either rent a car in San Francisco or rent a plane at Torrance airfield, so anything within 1-2h-driving range from San Francisco or 1h-flying range from LA would be perfect. Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112013#112013 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "swater6" STOP!!! This is an ufortunate crash but before we start altering the design and/or questioning it, look at the facts. Read the NTSB initial report. How high do you think an aircraft would need to be to spread parts 1/4 mile apart? Greater than the 800ft clouds I'll bet. This guy was flying in IMC with heavy rain on Sport Pilot skills in a non IFR craft. It wouldn't take much in IMC to roll a plane over and exceed VNE and over stress the structure. Not to mention if there was convective turbulance. Look what happened to Scott Crossfield when his Cessna broke up in IMC. It can happen to a certified airplane and can certianly happen to a 600lb homebuilt. It's sad but, please don't rush to conclusions about your aircraft. -------- 601 XL kit Tail, control surfaces and 1 wing complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112118#112118 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:22 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash If there is a 601 builder close the FAA and the NTSB will usually permi t a third party to view the wreckage,and possibly photograph the key joi nts. I did try to get the FAA to give me some feedback on the Nicolas Ca 801 crash and he couldn't release any details. He did suggest I visit t he wrecking yard that had possession of the debris. Several of us 801 bu ilders were gonna pitch in and buy the pieces for the recovery and stor age fee but the next of kin didn't want to sell. I also agree with Kevin , we builders need a way to do our own autposy of the wreckage. With tha t said I have full faith in Zenith Aircraft and their designs. Godspeed to the pilot and I feel very sad for the family. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "kevinbonds" wrote: Yeah, this is getting scary. We really need a better system for keeping up with accidents. We really need to lobby these FAA investigators to take photos of critical components in these accidents and allow them to be viewed. We need to know if the bolts were in tact etc. How can we get th is done? I may go talk to my local office tomorrow to see what I can find o ut. We need more info. Even the final FAA reports, are not very concise. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PatrickW Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Mr Walker must have been the original builder. Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity. Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? Patrick 601XL / Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112088#112088 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

If  there is a 601 builder close the FAA and the NTSB will usually permit a third party to view the wreckage,and possibly photogra ph the key joints. I did try to get the FAA to give me some feedback on the Nicolas Ca 801 crash and he couldn't release any details. He did sug gest I visit the wrecking yard that had possession of the debris. Severa l of us 801 builders were gonna pitch in and buy the pieces  for th e recovery and storage fee but the next of kin didn't want to sell. I al so agree with Kevin, we builders need a way to do our own autposy of the wreckage. With that said I have full faith in Zenith Aircraft and their designs. Godspeed to the pilot and I feel very sad for the family.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>&nbs p;wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by:&nb sp;"kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>

Yeah, th is is getting scary. We really need a  better system for keeping up
with acci dents. We really need to lobby these  FAA investigators to take
photos of critical  components in these accidents and allow&n bsp;them to be
viewed. We need to know& nbsp;if the bolts were in tact etc. H ow can we get this
done? I may go& nbsp;talk to my local office tomorrow to&n bsp;see what I can find out.
We need&nb sp;more info. Even the final FAA reports,& nbsp;are not very concise.

Kevin Bonds

Nashville TN


601XL Plans building.


http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

 

do not&nb sp;archive DO NOT ARCHIVE 

 
-----Ori ginal Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics .com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Beh alf Of PatrickW
Sent: Thursday, May 10,  ;2007 2:22 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject : Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash

--> Zeni th-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoy t@yahoo.com>

Mr Walker must have been  ;the original builder.

Looking at the we ather reports in the area - particularly&n bsp;the dramatic
changes in wind direction a t that time leads me to suspect conve ctive
activity.

Has anyone learned anything&nbs p;more about any of these most recent
a ccidents...?  

Patrick
601XL / Corvair




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112088#112088


< ======================== ======================== nbsp;the Matronics List Features Navigator to&n bsp;Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,& ========================              p;Same great content now also available vi ======================== ======================
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "Gig Giacona" I'm trying to figure out where the Walker name comes in. The FAA registration data doesn't show it. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112121#112121 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:23 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash In a message dated 5/10/2007 1:49:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, johnd@data-tech.com writes: It was a 601, no drugs, newly purchased plane, . Report at _http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1_ (http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1) Now I know my memory can act funny some time,but I do not think this is the one I remember. I'm thinking this plane was at a good altitude,big debris field,parts landing in agricultural fields(?),and canabis in the pilots or passengers blood,recently purchased. Was it an 801 with the extended horz stab ? 'cmon, somebody tell me I did'nt hallucinate this. do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area From: "Gig Giacona" Craig, have you flown in that plane at Dragonfly? If so how did you like the Dynon set-up? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112125#112125 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:31 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area From: "Gig Giacona" Also, how do they rent it? It registered as an experimental. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112126#112126 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:38 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash In a message dated 5/10/2007 2:28:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bill_dom@yahoo.com writes: The accident where drugs where found in the pilot was another inflight breakup in an 801. The other inflight breakup happen to another 601XL in Yuba city California. The first case was a 601XL where the wing folded up and crash, also in California. O.K.. Glad I'm building a 701. Has anything like this ever happened to a 701 ? I mean besides that guy in Wisconsin who keeps hitting trees ; ) Sorry, please do not be offended, ,just a weird sense of humor. I actually respect your determination to get right back on the horse. do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "revdjd" I would be very surprised if Zenith Aircraft comes forward to address this most recent crash of a 601XL even after the FAA does its investigation and issues a report. The reason.............liability and lawsuits. IF the cause of this most recent crash of a 601XL, and all the others, is a wing-related/structural defect do you think that ZAC is going to admit that unless forced to do so? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112128#112128 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash All- There are so many variables in this accident, let's wait until things are sorted out by the NTSB before speculating root cause. Kick back and relax as best you can. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:38 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area Yes, I did during QSP's Jabiru FWF class last fall. The Dynons were fine - somewhat dim in the direct sunlight but still legible. Dynon now offers a brighter screen as an option. I had never flown behind glass before but had no problem adapting. Bob Archibald was instructing from the right seat and was able to read the display in front of me. We figured out that (unlike mechanical gauges) LCD displays don't suffer from parallax ;-) I recommend seeing an EFIS in direct sunlight before buying. This is one good reason to attend a show. Dynon has a D10 with an internal battery that they let me take out into the sun at SnF. And I was happy with my Enigma's screen when I tried it in the sun at home. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:52 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Flying CH601XL in LAX or SFO area I don't know how it is registered but I flew with Bob Archibald instructing from the right seat. The FAA database gives the classification as "Experimental": http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=601ba What are the regs on instructing in an experimental? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:12 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash I'm not in the mood to kick back on this one. The problem is that the NTSB never seems to answer any questions for me. I was patient during the other investigations, and even found ways to explain them away. This crash may be explainable as well, but I'm getting a little annoyed at this whole system of sit back and wait. There seems to be an information vacuum for us builders when it comes to these investigations. We need to organize a builder's advocacy group to approach the NTSB or FAA, on our behalf, to see that we get accurate info such as pictures of attachment points etc. If there was a problem how would we get reliable information to fix it in this climate? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash All- There are so many variables in this accident, let's wait until things are sorted out by the NTSB before speculating root cause. Kick back and relax as best you can. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:39 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash From: "PatrickW" Kevin Bonds wrote: > There seems to be an information vacuum for us builders when it comes to these investigations. We need to organize a builders advocacy group to approach the NTSB or FAA Is this something that the National EAA can help with...? Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112140#112140 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:53 PM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash To be sure, Zenith should conduct an in depth investigation of every crash involving their aircraft and they should make the results known. If anything in the design is unsafe and they say nothing, then they are liable legally and ethically. Jerry On May 10, 2007, at 7:30 PM, kevinbonds wrote: > I=92m not in the mood to kick back on this one. The problem is that > the NTSB never seems to answer any questions for me. I was patient > during the other investigations, and even found ways to explain > them away. This crash may be explainable as well, but I=92m getting a > little annoyed at this whole system of sit back and wait. There > seems to be an information vacuum for us builders when it comes to > these investigations. We need to organize a builder=92s advocacy > group to approach the NTSB or FAA, on our behalf, to see that we > get accurate info such as pictures of attachment points etc. If > there was a problem how would we get reliable information to fix it > in this climate? > > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Plans building. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:23 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash > > > All- > > There are so many variables in this accident, let's wait until > things are sorted out by the NTSB before speculating root cause. > > Kick back and relax as best you can. > > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuse/Corvair > Townville, Pa > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > ======================== > ======================== > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:24 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash Kevin, I agree with your concern about a lack of information. The FAA and/or NTSB must give out better data concerning the cause of such accidents. With several decades of experience in the aviation field, I suspect they will not unless a good number of people demand better action (unless of course it is a well known person). In any case, this sounds like a weather related crash involving a low time, inexperienced pilot who may have flown into conditions that he could not overcome. I will wait for the final report.* * -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:17 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash Kevin.=0A=0AI think that would be called the EAA.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A Mark S.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: kevinbonds =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, May 10, 2 007 4:30:53 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash=0A=0A=0AI=A2m not in t he mood to kick back on this one. The problem is that the NTSB never seems to answer any questions for me. I was patient during the other investigatio ns, and even found ways to explain them away. This crash may be explainable as well, but I=A2m getting a little annoyed at this whole system of sit ba ck and wait. There seems to be an information vacuum for us builders when i t comes to these investigations. We need to organize a builder=A2s advocacy group to approach the NTSB or FAA, on our behalf, to see that we get accur ate info such as pictures of attachment points etc. If there was a problem how would we get reliable information to fix it in this climate? =0A =0AKev in Bonds=0ANashville TN=0A601XL Plans building.=0Ahttp://home.comcast.net/~ kevinbonds=0A =0Ado not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk=0ASent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:23 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash=0A =0A All-=0A There are so many variables in this accident, let's wait until t hings are sorted out by the NTSB before speculating root cause. =0A K ick back and relax as best you can.=0ABill Naumuk=0AHDS Fuse/Corvair=0ATown =================0A=0A_____________________ ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:50 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:01 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:42 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash In each case, I believe the defect is found in the person(s) that prepared the plane for flight or the pilot that exceeded his ability in impossible conditions. The defect is between the ears and so far, I've heard nothing to indicate anything to the contrary. Excess speed, missing bolts, bad weather, poor preflights or what have you. These all play the major role in keeping the wings on. Until "SLA" pilots modify thinking somewhat, they're going to continue to loose wings and things with regularity. The defect does not likely have anything to do with structural limits of the thin Zenith wing. These generally exceed commercial aircraft load limits. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive revdjd wrote: > > I would be very surprised if Zenith Aircraft comes forward to address this most recent crash of a 601XL even after the FAA does its investigation and issues a report. The reason.............liability and lawsuits. IF the cause of this most recent crash of a 601XL, and all the others, is a wing-related/structural defect do you think that ZAC is going to admit that unless forced to do so? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112128#112128 > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:53 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash I agree 100% there used to be checks and balances in place to help save people from themselves in aviation like taking away ones medical if they shouldn't fly. But now we have a lot of our seniors that simply shouldn't be flying that are jumping up and down because of the new Sport pilot class. I am at odds right now with a similar situation with a plane I helped build and now I am not sure if the person should be flying it. When they take the plane out for a taxi test for the first time and try and lift off in a plane they are unfamiliar with it scares the hell out of me. Now I am afraid for him but I can't stop him so I have to just watch and pry I guess. I just think this is going to be happening more and more. I know it's hard to admit it but some people are just not fit to fly but will do it anyway. And this has nothing to do with the current crash it is simply a blanket statement. I also am starting to wonder if this new class was a good idea at all. Jeff In each case, I believe the defect is found in the person(s) that prepared the plane for flight or the pilot that exceeded his Ability in impossible conditions. The defect is between the ears and so far, I've heard nothing to indicate anything to the contrary. Excess speed, missing bolts, bad weather, poor preflights or what have you. These all play the major role in keeping the wings on. Until "SLA" pilots modify thinking somewhat, they're going to continue to loose wings and things with regularity. The defect does not likely have anything to do with structural limits of the thin Zenith wing. These generally exceed commercial aircraft load limits. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:34 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash Hey Jeff, Lighten up freind it has been well proven that stupidity and lack of personal responsibility does not need a license. And out here in the middle of nowhereville there are plenty of older pilots continuing to fly after losing there medical. Hell, I would rather spin in than drinking myself to death while my wife tried to nag me to death because I forgot to take out the trash 2 weeks ago. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:27 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 Crash I wish to argue the other side of the old geezer sport pilot privileges. There are lots of older pilots who can't get a medical because of the bureaucratic stubbornness of the FAA. The ones who are really likely to keel over or pass out from their medical condition will lose their state driver's license and not be able to fly even with the new rules. The older pilots who have a lot of experience and higher level pilot certificates have many things going for them. They have lived to old age while flying airplanes. That means they have developed some good judgement or they are very lucky. In either case, these are not the pilots I would expect to hear about who killed themselves by flying drunk or in filthy weather. Those are the kind of accidents that seem to happen to low time pilots with poor judgement or just plain bad luck. Apparently the pilot who lost his life in the recent XL accident was a "New" sport pilot. It seems he fell victim to the poor weather. If not for the fact that this is one of many recent examples of structural failures on XLs it would be an accident not worthy of much attention by the flying community. We would write this one off as a pilot who chose to fly under conditions he wasn't qualified for. Those are the breaks with new pilots. It is unfortunate that ownership of a plane gives the pilot more freedom to fly in horrible conditions than he would have if he rented his plane from an FBO. I feel this is just one example of the extra risk we all take by flying home built airplanes. This doesn't apply to Heintz designs as much as it does to the faster and higher performance ones, but it still applies to some degree. Just because you can build a plane doesn't mean you have the pilot skills to safely fly it. In any event, I applaud the new rule that lets older pilots like me fly again without fighting with the bureaucrats for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate. The FAA has always claimed that 98 percent of the pilots requesting special issuance medicals eventually get them. Now they don't need them if they are willing to limit their activities to LSA and VFR Day operations. That seems like a good compromise to me. For the most part, I feel flying a plane is actually easier than driving a car. Airplanes spend most of their flying time a long distance from the nearest solid object. Cars zoom around right next to each other. Flying is still a lot safer than driving a car. Especially for those flyers who have a lot of experience, if they can safely drive a car they should be able to safely fly a plane. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:41 PM 5/10/2007, you wrote: >I agree 100% there used to be checks and balances in place to help >save people from themselves in aviation like taking away ones >medical if they shouldn't fly. But now we have a lot of our seniors >that simply shouldn't be flying that are jumping up and down because >of the new Sport pilot class. I am at odds right now with a similar >situation with a plane I helped build and now I am not sure if the >person should be flying it. When they take the plane out for a taxi >test for the first time and try and lift off in a plane they are >unfamiliar with it scares the hell out of me. Now I am afraid for >him but I can't stop him so I have to just watch and pry I guess. I >just think this is going to be happening more and more. I know it's >hard to admit it but some people are just not fit to fly but will do >it anyway. And this has nothing to do with the current crash it is >simply a blanket statement. >I also am starting to wonder if this new class was a good idea at all. >Jeff > > >In each case, I believe the defect is found in the person(s) that >prepared the plane for flight or the pilot that exceeded his >Ability in impossible conditions. The defect is between the ears and so >far, I've heard nothing to indicate anything to the >contrary. Excess speed, missing bolts, bad weather, poor preflights or >what have you. These all play the major role in keeping >the wings on. Until "SLA" pilots modify thinking somewhat, they're going >to continue to loose wings and things with regularity. >The defect does not likely have anything to do with structural limits of >the thin Zenith wing. These generally exceed commercial >aircraft load limits. > > >---------- >See what's free at AOL.com. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.