Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - 601HD wheels and brakes (Robilliard)
2. 05:03 AM - Re: Tire Pressure (wade jones)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Tire Pressure (robert stone)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: Tire Pressure (Jaybannist@cs.com)
5. 05:41 AM - Re: Landing Lights (dfmoeller)
6. 06:09 AM - Re: Tire Pressure (LarryMcFarland)
7. 06:10 AM - Re: Landing Lights (dfmoeller)
8. 06:10 AM - Re: 601HD wheels and brakes (Bill Steer)
9. 06:24 AM - Re: Rudder cables exiting rear fuslage (Gig Giacona)
10. 06:29 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (Gig Giacona)
11. 06:31 AM - Re: 601HD wheels and brakes (LarryMcFarland)
12. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (ZodieRocket)
13. 07:17 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (Gig Giacona)
14. 07:41 AM - Re: Rudder cables exiting rear fuslage (AZFlyer)
15. 07:51 AM - EAA Southwest Fly-In @ Hondo Texas (James Clark)
16. 07:59 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (cbaron66)
17. 08:30 AM - Re: Landing Lights (John M. Goodings)
18. 08:44 AM - Final letter on thread (ZodieRocket)
19. 09:20 AM - Re: Final letter on thread (Trainnut01@aol.com)
20. 09:23 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (steveadams)
21. 09:37 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Gig Giacona)
22. 09:48 AM - Re: Tire Pressure (Tim Juhl)
23. 09:51 AM - baggage door fix (john butterfield)
24. 09:52 AM - Re: Final letter on thread (Tim Juhl)
25. 10:02 AM - The ongoing XL wing debate (TxDave)
26. 10:19 AM - Re: EAA Southwest Fly-In @ Hondo Texas (TxDave)
27. 10:24 AM - Re: Final letter on thread (Elden Jacobson)
28. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (David Downey)
29. 10:28 AM - Re: Final letter on thread (David Downey)
30. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings ()
31. 11:34 AM - Anybody delete the cabin access step?? (DaveG601XL)
32. 12:17 PM - Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? (Gig Giacona)
33. 12:28 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Gig Giacona)
34. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (David Downey)
35. 01:07 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (george may)
36. 01:10 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Tim Juhl)
37. 01:26 PM - One Possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Stuctural Failure" Get Started (Phil Maxson)
38. 01:43 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Dave Austin)
39. 01:44 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Dave Austin)
40. 01:57 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Dennis Shoup)
41. 02:14 PM - Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? (Gary Ray)
42. 02:21 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Tim Juhl)
43. 02:55 PM - Folded wing the hard way (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
44. 03:05 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Robin Bellach)
45. 03:47 PM - 601 main gear Bungees (john H)
46. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Tire Pressure (robert stone)
47. 04:00 PM - One possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Structural" (MaxNr@aol.com)
48. 06:53 PM - 601HD Bungee (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
49. 09:03 PM - Re: Tire Pressure (Gig Giacona)
50. 09:24 PM - Re: One possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Structural" (Paul Mulwitz)
51. 09:33 PM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (Ron Lendon)
52. 09:39 PM - Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 601HD wheels and brakes |
Hi All
Is any one able to tell me the make, part number and source of the Wheel
and Brake assemblies fitted to the 601HD. I am unable to find any
reference to it on the drawings and as a scratch builder; I am trying to
source them.
Regards
Roy Robilliard
Bunbury West Australia
601HD
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Hi Tracy ,I don't know what the correct tire pressure is for the 601XL
.My Tripacer calls for 22# mains and 15# nose ,this is for a 2000# gross
aircraft .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: Zenith list
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
Members,
Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
Tracy Stone
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Hay Wade,
I have 25 pounds in all three and I thought it was a little high.
Can you believe what this guy told me!!!
50 lbs.
George May
601XL 912s---74 hours
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
Hi Tracy ,I don't know what the correct tire pressure is for the 601XL
.My Tripacer calls for 22# mains and 15# nose ,this is for a 2000# gross
aircraft .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: Zenith list
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
Members,
Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
Tracy Stone
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Tracy,
According to my Photo Guide, Section 6-G, page 6, the tire pressure should be 50
PSI. I had to call ZAC to find this information myself.
Jay in Dallas
"robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>Members,
> Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the ZodiacXL
with tri-gear.
>
>Tracy Stone
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
These nav/pos/strobe combo units are installed on my XL. They work quite nicely.
Given the XL's inherent tail heaviness, any way to keep weight forward helps,
even just wire and bulb assembly weight. The fit looks like the wingtips
were made for this light assembly. Since I purchased my plane from the builder,
I'm not sure how these managed to get installed, but I certainly recommend
these over the 3 piece models.
Doug
hansriet wrote:
>
>
> Also there's a slightly different Aeroflash Strobe/Nav unit (Kit No. 156-0049)
than the one ZAC is supplying. It has a white light on the backside. By mounting
this strobe on the wingtips, you don't need the (rather ugly IMHO) rudder
tail light. Does anybody have experience with that strobe? Will it fit on the
XL wingtips?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Hans van Riet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113553#113553
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Robert,
Usually the tire specifies tire pressure on the side in fine print. For
the weight of a loaded XL, the tire pressure could
be below this amount by 3 to 4 lbs to reduce the wear and soften
landings on the tires. Depends a bit more on what
specific tire you have to give an accurate answer, but 28 to 31 lbs
would be a good guess for a 33 psi tire.
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
robert stone wrote:
> Members,
> Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
> ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
>
> Tracy Stone
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
Thanks to all for the clarifications. I clearly see the distinction now. It should
have been obvious in the first place.
Thats what I love about this list. Even silly/stupid questions get patient answers.
Now, back to the bickering about wing flex!
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113561#113561
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601HD wheels and brakes |
The make and part number are Matco W80CC-Z for the wheel and brake
assembly. There's also a "2-923009" on the drawing. Matco is Salt Lake
City, UT. Phone 831-486-7574.
Bill
> Hi All
>
> Is any one able to tell me the make, part number and source of the
> Wheel and Brake assemblies fitted to the 601HD. I am unable to find
> any reference to it on the drawings and as a scratch builder; I am
> trying to source them.
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cables exiting rear fuslage |
As most of us have done at one point or another in the build process, and as I
do on an almost continuous basis you are over thinking the problem.
Take the aluminum fairing. Place it where the lower side will be flush with the
bottom of the fuselage. Remember the rivets that are connecting the skin to the
longeron also connect the fairing and fair lead to the aircraft. Mark the the
point middle of the arch on to the skin and you have your cable exit point.
I did one thing different than the plans. I put the nylon inside the fuselage.
It looks better and protects just as much if not more because there is no way
then to have the cable contact the skin.
AZFlyer wrote:
> After trying numerous search criteria I was unable to locate any earlier concerns
about the description, location, drilling, cutting or general construction
of the exit holes and fairlead measurements, (other than the P-poor drawings
on 6-B-4)... that leave a great deal to the imagination.
>
> These exit holes (slots) should be smooth and nearly frictionless for cable drag
and wear, but some Aviation engineer decided to just "spot them" and leave
the rest up to us poor B---turds to figure it out.
>
> I did find another builders pictures on his web site that show his best guess...
but no narrative and no measurements... so ? has anybody concerned themselves
with a "smooth, sanitary, clean install" or are we just "Winging It?"
>
> Love and kisses...
>
> help!
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113566#113566
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
I don't know if you made a mistake or not but, when you get the wing kit from Zenith
it comes with the center spar and all holes are drilled at the factory and
the left, right and center spar are a matched set.
Ron Lendon wrote:
>
>
> I noticed you mentioned you only drilled one side of the center spar. I set
the dihedral of both wing spars and the center spar before I began the wing assembly.
Did I make a mistake here? Should I have waited to drill one end till
later? Why?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113567#113567
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601HD wheels and brakes |
Roy,
The WW80CC-Z main and NW80CC-Z nose gear are Matco/Zenith reference
numbers. That product is Matco, a 4 x 8 wheel
and I'm not certain they're available any more from Matco. Brakes are
MC-5 and if you do find the wheel, I recommend you look at the Michelin
S-83 tire for that wheel and a tube with a 90-degree bent stem. Best
you call Zenith 1-573-581-9000 and ask Nick.
I purchased my wheels from Zenith at the time.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Robilliard wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> Is any one able to tell me the make, part number and source of the
> Wheel and Brake assemblies fitted to the 601HD. I am unable to find
> any reference to it on the drawings and as a scratch builder; I am
> trying to source them.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Roy Robilliard
>
> Bunbury West Australia
>
> 601HD
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Gig, that is the luxury of building a plane from a kit, it is also the
terror of building a plane from plans. A plans builder does not have the
factory jigs to do the spars, they have to be done as a match drilled
affair with fishing line and plumb bobs. Yikes!!
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
<wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
I don't know if you made a mistake or not but, when you get the wing kit
from Zenith it comes with the center spar and all holes are drilled at
the factory and the left, right and center spar are a matched set.
6:05 PM
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
No, it falls into the don't experiment and advise others to experiment on stuff
I don't know enough about camp. As I said it is your airplane and if you can
get the change, what ever it may be, past the AW inspector go for it. Just don't
suggest to others to use your untested ideas. If you use them and then test
them and they work THEN share them.
ashontz wrote:
> Gig, I guess that falls into the Non-Experimental Experimental camp. It was just
a suggestion. What are you afraid of, that someone may actually go ahead and
implement it? Why would you have a problem with that if the plane is in fact
experimental and it's their plane. Or are you uncomfortable with the fact that
someone is implying that there MAY be, not definite, but MAY be something wrong
with the design? If and there was something wrong with the design wouldn't
you want to know about it? I chose Zenith based on NTSB queries a few years
back. Nothing showed up at the time that didn't suggest pilot error. Now for some
reason we're seeing cases that may in fact imply problems with the airframe.
Seeing as how the 601HD and HDS utilize that same building processes and are
built and flow by the same types of people, I'd have to guess that statiscally
the the workmanship on the 601HD and HDSs and 601XLs are all within the same
bellcurve, yet there are at least 4 suspicious 601XL accidents involving airframe
failure where as with the 601HD and HDSs there are none of that category.
Again, these planes are placarded Experimental. Personally, I'd prefer to see
them placarded Certified, meaning, the design is certified and the inspector
overlooking my work felt my work was up to snuff to be considered professional,
so that the combination of heavily tested design coupled with professional
workmanship is Certified which would be the same as building a Cessna 152 from
scratch per A&P workmanship. That would be nice, but that's not the real world.
So the best I can hope for at a reasonable price is Experimental with a truly
tested design. That's all.
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > Andy,
> >
> > I've pretty much stayed out of this. It is your airplane and as long as you
can get it by the AW inspector you can do what ever the hell you want to it.
> >
> > What I have a problem with is you suggesting completely untested and un-engineered
fixes to a problem that probably doesn't exist.
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113577#113577
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cables exiting rear fuslage |
Gig,
After studying the pictures that Paul sent me off-line, I now see what he did as
a work-a-round to my concern. He opened the 8 x 20 mm slot in the skin to allow
a better alignment with the cable.
This was really my quandary. I had set the lower rudder horn in it's hinge hole
and inserted a 1/8" dowel through the skin to the horn (where the cable would
terminate), only to find a major mis-alignment through the fairlead. Then
the poorly drawn engr. dwg.s don't explain the slot in the nylon ...except to
"make one."
I'll take a look at putting the nylon inside as you did... sounds good.
Thanks for the feedback.
M
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113589#113589
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | EAA Southwest Fly-In @ Hondo Texas |
The EAA Southwest Fly-In at Hondo Texas is coming up June 1-2 (Fri-Sat).
I would like to know if anyone with a 601 or 701 will be there, as I
would like to get a closer look at the planes. Please drop me a line if
you are going, would like to meet with you.
Thanks,
James Clark - Fort Worth, TX
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Andy- consider me +1,+100 don't listen to the guys that tell you to shut it. Keep
asking questions- that's how we all learn. I too feel there may well be something
worth looking into with this design. As far as this thread not being warm
and fuzzy, I think it's just starting to get good. I don't feel anyone should
ever blindly follow what another person says- be it an aircraft designer or
even your wife. For you guys that think this forum used to be good- have you
noticed how this forum has changed as ZAC has become more "mainstream"? The bigger
the company becomes, the more the builders get to be like RV guys :o
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113598#113598
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
Our CH601HD has two 45-watt lights in variable screw mounts behind 1 mm
polycarbonate lenses, one in each wingtip. One is set to illuminate about
100 feet ahead (nominal taxi light), the other about 200 feet ahead
(nominal landing light). We can operate with one or other or both. We
alternate them, keeping one on all the time - Chris Heintz and an airliner
captain friend both told me they believe birds see the light before the
plane. Also, the one time the aircraft landed a bit late at dusk, they
were useful.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo.
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Final letter on thread |
-----Original Message-----
have you noticed how this forum has changed as ZAC has become more
"mainstream"? The bigger the company becomes, the more the builders get
to be like RV guys :o
I don't personally agree with this last statement. Individually I find a
lot of RV owners somewhat friendly but as a whole they tend to have an
air of superiority complex.
Not so with the majority of Zenith owners.
At any Fly-in I ever went to on grass I never saw an RV, on pavement I
saw them but if you went to chat with them it is an instant brush off.
While a Zenith builder is at every strip, grass, dirt, water and even a
light swamp. On a whole when you start talking to a Zenith kit owner and
builder they are the friendliest people on the earth. Even when I was
building an Osprey 2 they would spend the time to answer my questions
and genuinely be interested in meeting you.
Is ZAC becoming more main stream, why YES of course, how could it not, a
great product fitting a need.
Still even though we are getting bigger as a group, I still see what I
saw 10 years ago, normal down to earth friendly people, usually willing
to bend over backwards to help or offer assistance.
In other words it still feels like a family to me, occasionally I want
to slap a cousin up the side of the coconut, as in Andy just lately or
Larry a year ago. But all in all I still want to meet all of you and
share a coffee and burger together. I don't believe that there is anyone
here I cannot at least talk to socially, I may not agree with your views
and you may not agree with mine, however I have noticed that no one here
truly would turn down a burger and a conversation.
As for the last rash of posts, they are non-productive. Lets bring up
the issues when there is knowledge, not speculation, not assumptions and
not half assed info from the FAA. Zenith is a great, respectable
company, you know that, it was likely one of the biggest parts of your
decision.
You truly know if Zenith had an inkling that something was wrong it
would immediately post it and warn us, Hell I would be the first to post
any warranted warnings. But all it's tests have passed and they are
doing them yet again for proof and this is not the second time as they
have had to do tests in several countries. If something can come out of
it then it will. Sitting here and speculating slows the building process
down, pisses off other builders that are your friends. Once again is
completely un-productive and will solve nothing for you.
You have all, read posts from Andy, yet I look back at my logs and I see
some very intelligent conversations I have had with him in the past and
some help I have given to him. He seems like a great guy, maybe a little
over concerned possibly scarred. Who wouldn't be, remember we all have
different backgrounds. Some of us know the routine and wait for the
investigation and wait to see if Chris makes any recommendations, it
truly is all we can do and acomplish. When you step back you know that
the company will do the right thing, they have to, and past history
shows that they always did.
I know you're tired of the soap box, and I'm climbing down now as I have
a Rudder workshop and seminars to do this weekend. Take care over the
weekend guys, get some building or flying done. I hope to see a few of
you over the weekend at www.zenithnorth.com fly-in. Either buy me a
coffee, or I can buy you one ( I drink black) lets talk and get back to
what makes our community the best group to belong to, a special
fellowship amongst all. Oh and be Gentle on Andy he really is a nice
guy.
I still have an opening for a 601 or 701 rudder workshop. Please let me
know by tonight and be ready to go first thing in the morning.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
6:05 PM
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Final letter on thread |
Mark
I noticed that "superiority complex" attitude among the RV guys even back
when I was building my RV. I thought it was just me they were looking down on.
Carroll
do not archive
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
The problem is Andy is not asking questions. He's making assumptions and offering
solutions without any knowledge of what he is doing. Has anyone asked Zenith
for some engineering data? Calculations for 2 dimensional flutter analysis are
pretty straight forward, and for predicting wing flutter in the speed range
the 601 flies, is extremely accurate. Now, since CH worked doing flutter analysis
for the Concorde, do you think maybe, he could have run the calculations
on the 601xl? Naw, we don't need to find out, lets just go with Andy on this one
and assume the wing has a potential to flutter. And since we make that assumption,
now lets fix it by stiffining up the wing, cause Andy says wings flutter
because they are too flexible. Are we sure about that Andy? Don't you mean
that a stiffer wing will flutter at a higher frequency, but is not necisarily
less apt to flutter? Ah heck, lets not let knowledge or facts get in the way of
a good fix, let's just go with Andy on this one too, he's on a roll. Hey, it's
experimental, lets experiment right. Eveyone knows when people experiment,
they don't gather any knowledge or facts, they just jump in throwing stuff together
to see what happens. I'm tired of this stuff. Good luck with your build.
:)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113619#113619
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
John, when you say the landing light is aiming 200 feet ahead, do you mean when
the aircraft is at rest?
goodings(at)yorku.ca wrote:
> Our CH601HD has two 45-watt lights in variable screw mounts behind 1 mm
> polycarbonate lenses, one in each wingtip. One is set to illuminate about
> 100 feet ahead (nominal taxi light), the other about 200 feet ahead
> (nominal landing light). We can operate with one or other or both. We
> alternate them, keeping one on all the time - Chris Heintz and an airliner
> captain friend both told me they believe birds see the light before the
> plane. Also, the one time the aircraft landed a bit late at dusk, they
> were useful.
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113622#113622
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
50 lbs! Where did ZAC come up with that number? I would think those tires would
be like rocks! The 5:00 nose on a 172 is 26 psi - on a 182 I seem to remember
it was 42 psi.
It would be nice if ZAC would clarify the reasons behind such high pressures.
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113624#113624
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | baggage door fix |
thanks guys, can't believe i did not figure this out
myself. however, do you think the additional weight
of the o rings will have any effect on wing strength
(sorry, couldn't resist)
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Final letter on thread |
Is it just me or is there no text with Mark's post?
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113625#113625
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | The ongoing XL wing debate |
Im not the sort of person who is prone to knee-jerk reactions. I have set back
and read all of the postings related to the 601XL accidents without joining in
on the discussion. Well, heres my 2 cents worth.
I believe Chris Heintz is an outstanding aircraft designer, and that the good folks
at ZAC appreciate their customers. It would not be in their best interest,
financially or otherwise, to deliberately put out a design that was inherently
flawed and dangerous. However, Chris is a human being, and as such is capable
of making an occasional error just like the rest of us. Think about large corporations
like General Motors and Ford. They employ armies of designers and
engineers and have state of the art testing facilities. Stillthey occasionally
have to recall specific vehicles when an unforeseen design flaw rears its ugly
head. If huge automotive corporations with vast resources are subject to this
kind of thing, it seems extremely irrational to say this ABSOLUTELY cannot happen
to Chris H.
Like every other builder on this list I have put a substantial amount of time and
money into my airplane. It is a labor of love. I wake up every day excited
to get out to the garage and work on my baby, even if only for an hour. In the
end, my life and the life of whoever flies with me depends on the quality of
my workmanship, my ability as a pilot, AND the structural integrity of the design.
Knowing how much we all have invested in this endeavor, and how much is at
stake, I think we all have a right to question everything! In fact, I think
we have an obligation to do so.
Im not an expert homebuilder by any stretch of the imagination. Most of you are
probably much more qualified than I. I spent months doing research on the various
designs available and reached the conclusion the 601XL was the right choice
for my specific needs. I still feel that way and continue to build every day.
I am concerned about these fatal accidents. However, I am optimistic that if,
I said IF, there is a design flaw, Chris will find and correct it.
Some of the postings on this topic have been pretty bizarre, while others have
been very appropriate and thoughtful questions. Personally, I welcome them all.
Hey, an in depth discussion of a serious topic like this from a variety of viewpoints
is not a bad thing. Were fortunate to have this forum where every single
member has the opportunity to speak his or her mind. We dont have to agree
with everyone. But, we dont have to ridicule them because we disagree. Lets
keep talking.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
601XL scratch builder
http://www.daves601xl.co
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113626#113626
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EAA Southwest Fly-In @ Hondo Texas |
Hey James,
I know for a fact that at least two kit built 601XL's will be there. One is Alex
Roca's airplane which I had the pleasure of flying. My wife and I will be there
along with several of my scratch building buddies. Email me and I'll give
you my cell phone number so we can meet at Hondo.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113627#113627
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Final letter on thread |
Zodie rocket:
As a builder (601XL) just getting started, I have read the last three week's
postings with both fascination and concern. As with most builders, having neither
the means nor the requisite skills/knowledge to independently verify the airplane's
structural integrety, I am dependent upon those who speak for the company
and its product. I have met Chris Heintz only once, last fall-- who would
have believed that a lecture on rivets could have been so absorbing-- and was
impressed by his obvious competence. And now I understand that he will re-evaluate
the airplane's structure yet again.
Big question: can you give us a sense of the time-frame involved in this? That
is, should we anticipate conclusions from him in, say, weeks, or is this a multi-month
undertaking? An indication of timing might be of utility in deciding
what to undertake, and how rapidly.
Thanks,
Elden J.
ZodieRocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
have you noticed how this forum has changed as ZAC has become more
"mainstream"? The bigger the company becomes, the more the builders get
to be like RV guys :o
I don't personally agree with this last statement. Individually I find a
lot of RV owners somewhat friendly but as a whole they tend to have an
air of superiority complex.
Not so with the majority of Zenith owners.
At any Fly-in I ever went to on grass I never saw an RV, on pavement I
saw them but if you went to chat with them it is an instant brush off.
While a Zenith builder is at every strip, grass, dirt, water and even a
light swamp. On a whole when you start talking to a Zenith kit owner and
builder they are the friendliest people on the earth. Even when I was
building an Osprey 2 they would spend the time to answer my questions
and genuinely be interested in meeting you.
Is ZAC becoming more main stream, why YES of course, how could it not, a
great product fitting a need.
Still even though we are getting bigger as a group, I still see what I
saw 10 years ago, normal down to earth friendly people, usually willing
to bend over backwards to help or offer assistance.
In other words it still feels like a family to me, occasionally I want
to slap a cousin up the side of the coconut, as in Andy just lately or
Larry a year ago. But all in all I still want to meet all of you and
share a coffee and burger together. I don't believe that there is anyone
here I cannot at least talk to socially, I may not agree with your views
and you may not agree with mine, however I have noticed that no one here
truly would turn down a burger and a conversation.
As for the last rash of posts, they are non-productive. Lets bring up
the issues when there is knowledge, not speculation, not assumptions and
not half assed info from the FAA. Zenith is a great, respectable
company, you know that, it was likely one of the biggest parts of your
decision.
You truly know if Zenith had an inkling that something was wrong it
would immediately post it and warn us, Hell I would be the first to post
any warranted warnings. But all it's tests have passed and they are
doing them yet again for proof and this is not the second time as they
have had to do tests in several countries. If something can come out of
it then it will. Sitting here and speculating slows the building process
down, pisses off other builders that are your friends. Once again is
completely un-productive and will solve nothing for you.
You have all, read posts from Andy, yet I look back at my logs and I see
some very intelligent conversations I have had with him in the past and
some help I have given to him. He seems like a great guy, maybe a little
over concerned possibly scarred. Who wouldn't be, remember we all have
different backgrounds. Some of us know the routine and wait for the
investigation and wait to see if Chris makes any recommendations, it
truly is all we can do and acomplish. When you step back you know that
the company will do the right thing, they have to, and past history
shows that they always did.
I know you're tired of the soap box, and I'm climbing down now as I have
a Rudder workshop and seminars to do this weekend. Take care over the
weekend guys, get some building or flying done. I hope to see a few of
you over the weekend at www.zenithnorth.com fly-in. Either buy me a
coffee, or I can buy you one ( I drink black) lets talk and get back to
what makes our community the best group to belong to, a special
fellowship amongst all. Oh and be Gentle on Andy he really is a nice
guy.
I still have an opening for a 601 or 701 rudder workshop. Please let me
know by tonight and be ready to go first thing in the morning.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
6:05 PM
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Gentlemen;
I promised not to keep at this stream but please remember this: The very best
design teams in history have a checkered history of successfully providing designs
that did not have hidden susceptibilities, including structural flutter
issues, that showed up after many, many were in service with clean histories.
I agree that Andy tends to run to the reactionary side but nothing he has asked
is not contained anecdotally in my own career in aircraft development and testing
for the "big boys".
CH is a man revered by myself as well as most of you. He is not God. He would
never place a flawed design in the hands of his buyers or especially as someone
put it "his own children" flying them.
I also don't think Andy is going to go out and redesign the wings withthe knowlege
he has - he knows that is simply moving the percieved flaw.
steveadams <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com> wrote:
The problem is Andy is not asking questions. He's making assumptions and offering
solutions without any knowledge of what he is doing. Has anyone asked Zenith
for some engineering data? Calculations for 2 dimensional flutter analysis are
pretty straight forward, and for predicting wing flutter in the speed range
the 601 flies, is extremely accurate. Now, since CH worked doing flutter analysis
for the Concorde, do you think maybe, he could have run the calculations
on the 601xl? Naw, we don't need to find out, lets just go with Andy on this one
and assume the wing has a potential to flutter. And since we make that assumption,
now lets fix it by stiffining up the wing, cause Andy says wings flutter
because they are too flexible. Are we sure about that Andy? Don't you mean
that a stiffer wing will flutter at a higher frequency, but is not necisarily
less apt to flutter? Ah heck, lets not let knowledge or facts get in the way of
a good fix, let's just go with Andy on this one
to!
o, he's on a roll. Hey, it's experimental, lets experiment right. Eveyone knows
when people experiment, they don't gather any knowledge or facts, they just jump
in throwing stuff together to see what happens. I'm tired of this stuff. Good
luck with your build. :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113619#113619
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Final letter on thread |
funny thing, I have just become a member of the EAA after 25+ years of inactivity.
The RV'ers are definately a group at a "higher level"!
Trainnut01@aol.com wrote: Mark
I noticed that "superiority complex" attitude among the RV guys even back when
I was building my RV. I thought it was just me they were looking down on.
Carroll
do not archive
---------------------------------
See what's free at AOL.com.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Not to pick nits here, but the testimony doesn't seem to make sense. I
f the left wing collapsed and folded rearward, it no longer provided l
ift. Therefore, the aircraft should have spun to the left. No amount o
f right rudder could compensate for that loss of lift. There should ha
ve been strong turning moment until the right wing gave up. The witnes
s states that the wings remained attached, but folded back. Therefore,
the report should discuss either a fracture somewhere in the structur
e, or a humongous (that's a technical term) folding or bending, all at
a specifically identifiable point. If one witness stated he saw wha
t he thought were pieces of metal separate from the plane, then SOMEBO
DY should have walked the area to either find the pieces or negate the
testimony. You don't just ignore a possible debris field. With the r
eports of hearing the engine being revved, I wonder if anyone looked a
t the powerplane for fuel restrictions, ignition problem, something th
at night have demanded higher rpm. It just seems to me that not every
thing has been examined and/or analyzed.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez
=0A601XL/Corvair=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A ----- Original Message ---
-- =0A From: Gig Giacona<mailto:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> =0A
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
=0A Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:11 PM=0A Subject: Zenith-List:
Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings=0A=0A=0A --> Zenith-L
ist message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net<mailto
:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>>=0A=0A If you are going to quote it
quote it all. That witness was 1/2 mile away and also heard the engin
e being "revved up" repeatedly. =0A=0A=0A > One witness, loc
ated about 1/2 mile north of the accident site, stated that he was out
side on his break when his attention was drawn toward the direction of
the accident airplane that was flying overhead towards Oakdale airpor
t. The airplane was about 800 to 1,000 feet above ground level (agl).
He stated that he heard a "very loud" engine and it sounded as if it w
ere being "revved up" repeatedly. As the airplane flew to the southwes
t, he saw the wings visibly vibrate, and observed what he thought were
pieces of metal separate from the airplane. The witness stated that t
he engine noise momentarily increased in pitch and volume before the "
left wing collapsed and folded rearward against the" fuselage of the a
irplane. The nose pitched down and the airplane entered a spin to the
right. The right wing collapsed upward and folded back against the fus
elage. He stated that the airplane impacted the ground in a 45-degree
angle, and exploded on impact. The witness further reported t!=0A
hat the wings remained attached to the airplane, but folded back duri
ng the accident sequence. He added that he did not see any components
separate from the airplane prior to impacting the ground.=0A >
=0A > Additional witnesses from various locations surrounding the acc
ident site reported that the airplane flew a wide arc to enter the tra
ffic pattern. The engine sounded very loud, as if it were alternately
being "revved up to full rpm and then going to idle." The left wing of
the airplane collapsed upward, and it entered a nose down 60-degree s
pin to the right. The airplane completed one full revolution before th
e right wing collapsed upward and folded back. The airplane then struc
k the ground.=0A=0A=0A --------=0A W.R. "Gig"
Giacona=0A 601XL Under Construction=0A See my progress at www.
peoamerica.net/N601WR<http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR>=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A Read this topic online here:=0A=0A http://foru
ms.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113429#113429<http://forums.matroni
cs.com/viewtopic.php?p=113429#113429>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=======================
======================0A
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
======0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
I don't have my fuselage on gear yet to make my own determination, but I am considering
not installing the cabin access step on my tri-gear 601XL. I remember
thinking that on the factory demo plane that I could get up without it. I could
have a cheap plastic stool in a wing baggage compartment for passengers and
still be ahead on weight and drag. I figure that I would be out with them
to assist their entry & egress anyway.
Anybody out there who has not installed the step have any positive or negative
advice on this?
Thanks.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
starting fueslage.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113635#113635
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
Dave, I think you could do away with it but having it, IMHO, cuts down on the chance
somebody is going to step on the flap while getting in. Also getting in
is not the only time it is used. You use it to get outs as well.
I modified mine so the crossbar, that goes under the fuselage now goes though the
fuselage.
DaveG601XL wrote:
> I don't have my fuselage on gear yet to make my own determination, but I am considering
not installing the cabin access step on my tri-gear 601XL. I remember
thinking that on the factory demo plane that I could get up without it. I
could have a cheap plastic stool in a wing baggage compartment for passengers
and still be ahead on weight and drag. I figure that I would be out with them
to assist their entry & egress anyway.
>
> Anybody out there who has not installed the step have any positive or negative
advice on this?
>
> Thanks.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113643#113643
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
They got it from the tire manufacturer, Condor. Look on page 6 of the build manual
6-G. There is a picture of the chart.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113644#113644
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Paul, I think you are ignoring the aerodynamic destabilizing effect of the folded
wing. Very rarely will a wing fold occur normal to the zero lift line and cause
rotation during descent purely as a result of the lift assemtry. The wild
gyrations that are the norm for wing fold incidents whether in an ultralight
or an ZR71 are usually due to the gross roll, pitch, and yaw forces input from
the (still attached) failed wing. The pulsating and very rapid onset of those
abnormal forces usually causes the remaining wing (and many times the tail) to
fail rapidly thereafter. Sometimes the aft fuselage wiull twist more than 360
or even off the balance of the wreckage during the descent.
paulrod36@msn.com wrote: Not to pick nits here, but the testimony doesn't
seem to make sense. If the left wing collapsed and folded rearward, it no
longer provided lift. Therefore, the aircraft should have spun to the left.
No amount of right rudder could compensate for that loss of lift. There should
have been strong turning moment until the right wing gave up. The witness states
that the wings remained attached, but folded back. Therefore, the report should
discuss either a fracture somewhere in the structure, or a humongous (that's
a technical term) folding or bending, all at a specifically identifiable
point. If one witness stated he saw what he thought were pieces of metal separate
from the plane, then SOMEBODY should have walked the area to either find
the pieces or negate the testimony. You don't just ignore a possible debris field.
With the reports of hearing the engine being revved, I wonder if anyone
looked at the powerplane for fuel restrictions,
ignition problem, something that night have demanded higher rpm. It just seems
to me that not everything has been examined and/or analyzed.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Gig Giacona
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings
If you are going to quote it quote it all. That witness was 1/2 mile away and also
heard the engine being "revved up" repeatedly.
> One witness, located about 1/2 mile north of the accident site, stated that he
was outside on his break when his attention was drawn toward the direction of
the accident airplane that was flying overhead towards Oakdale airport. The
airplane was about 800 to 1,000 feet above ground level (agl). He stated that
he heard a "very loud" engine and it sounded as if it were being "revved up" repeatedly.
As the airplane flew to the southwest, he saw the wings visibly vibrate,
and observed what he thought were pieces of metal separate from the airplane.
The witness stated that the engine noise momentarily increased in pitch
and volume before the "left wing collapsed and folded rearward against the" fuselage
of the airplane. The nose pitched down and the airplane entered a spin
to the right. The right wing collapsed upward and folded back against the fuselage.
He stated that the airplane impacted the ground in a 45-degree angle, and
exploded on impact. The witness further reported
t!
hat the wings remained attached to the airplane, but folded back during the accident
sequence. He added that he did not see any components separate from the
airplane prior to impacting the ground.
>
> Additional witnesses from various locations surrounding the accident site reported
that the airplane flew a wide arc to enter the traffic pattern. The engine
sounded very loud, as if it were alternately being "revved up to full rpm and
then going to idle." The left wing of the airplane collapsed upward, and it
entered a nose down 60-degree spin to the right. The airplane completed one full
revolution before the right wing collapsed upward and folded back. The airplane
then struck the ground.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113429#113429
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
At least this guy knows how to read the assembly guide-----and utilize it
do not archive
>From: "robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:20:06 -0500
>
>Hay Wade,
> I have 25 pounds in all three and I thought it was a little high.
>Can you believe what this guy told me!!!
>
>
>
>50 lbs.
>
>George May
>601XL 912s---74 hours
>
>Tracy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: wade jones
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>
>
> Hi Tracy ,I don't know what the correct tire pressure is for the 601XL
>.My Tripacer calls for 22# mains and 15# nose ,this is for a 2000# gross
>aircraft .
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: robert stone
> To: Zenith list
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>
>
> Members,
> Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
>ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
>
> Tracy Stone
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Boy! Talk about hot of the press.... Gig, thanks for pointing out the new pictorial
gear guide. I hadn't seen it yet.
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113651#113651
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | One Possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Stuctural |
Failure" Get Started
When I first started building N601MX, I knew very little about building. I
THOUGHT I knew something about flying, but in retrospect I was only starti
ng to learn. When people say things like "Flutter" and "Structural Failure
" it gets some people a little jumpy. Some people who may not feel confide
nt in their project may momentarily loose heart. You can almost see it in
some of their posts. The number of emails goes up, the amount of informati
on in the emails goes down, and we're left at the end with no conclusions.
Then in a little while, they get back to building (or in my case flying) a
nd realize how much fun this whole thing is. It sure would be nicer if we
didn't have to wade through all the words to find out someone is just tempo
rarily scared. Frequently is best to wait and get more information as it b
ecomes available.
I am the kind of person who reads all of the NTSB accident reports I can, l
ooking for anything I can learn. I currently see nothing in these reports
that makes me want to stop flying or stop carrying passengers. The 601XL i
s about as docile and well tested as any homebuilt design. With the take-o
ff, climb and landing performance of my plane, I feel it is much safer than
the rental 172s I was flying. Also, I KNOW my plane inside and out. It r
eally pays to fly one plane repeatedly and know it's quirks and strengths.
Chris Heintz has done a great job with the 601, 701 and 801 series. He dese
rves his place the EAA Hall of Fame.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
_________________________________________________________________
Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&oc
id=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Chris Heintz instructions are to allow the tires to depress by one third of
distance from rim to ground to allow them to absorb some of the shock (on
the 601 HDS). You don't want them too hard.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
----- Original Message -----
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>
> 50lbs.
>
> George May
> 601XL 912s---74 hours
>
>
>>From: "robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
>>To: "Zenith list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>>Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:03:08 -0500
>>
>>Members,
>> Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
>> ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
>>
>>Tracy Stone
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning Windows
> Live Hotmail.
>
>
>
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Isn't the pressure indicated on the side of the tire the max pressure before
it explodes?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
>
> Robert,
> Usually the tire specifies tire pressure on the side in fine print. For
> the weight of a loaded XL, the tire pressure could
> be below this amount by 3 to 4 lbs to reduce the wear and soften landings
> on the tires. Depends a bit more on what
> specific tire you have to give an accurate answer, but 28 to 31 lbs would
> be a good guess for a 33 psi tire.
>
> Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
> robert stone wrote:
>> Members,
>> Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on the
>> ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
>> Tracy Stone
>
>
>
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
50 psi is the maximum, not the reccomended pressure. At 50 psi a 5.00x5 6p
r
tire has a rated maximum load of 1285 lbs. per tire, or 3855 lbs on three o
f
them. A 601XL with a max gross weight of 1320 lbs isn't even close. I
don't know what the proper pressure is, but it is certainly much less than
50 psi.
On 5/18/07, george may <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> At least this guy knows how to read the assembly guide-----and utilize it
>
> do not archive
>
> >From: "robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
> >Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:20:06 -0500
> >
> >Hay Wade,
> > I have 25 pounds in all three and I thought it was a little high
.
> >Can you believe what this guy told me!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >50 lbs.
> >
> >George May
> >601XL 912s---74 hours
> >
> >Tracy
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: wade jones
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
> >
> >
> > Hi Tracy ,I don't know what the correct tire pressure is for the 601X
L
> >.My Tripacer calls for 22# mains and 15# nose ,this is for a 2000# gross
> >aircraft .
> > Wade Jones South Texas
> > 601XL plans building
> > Cont. 0200
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: robert stone
> > To: Zenith list
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
> >
> >
> > Members,
> > Who can tell me what the tire pressure is supposed to be on th
e
> >ZodiacXL with tri-gear.
> >
> > Tracy Stone
> >
> >
> >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">
> http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">
> http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> More photos, more messages, more storage=97get 2GB with Windows Live
> Hotmail.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
I rarely use mine. I prefer to sit on the front of the wing and slide
backward.
It can be added later if desired.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Anybody delete the cabin access step??
>
> I don't have my fuselage on gear yet to make my own determination, but I
am considering not installing the cabin access step on my tri-gear 601XL. I
remember thinking that on the factory demo plane that I could get up without
it. I could have a cheap plastic stool in a wing baggage compartment for
passengers and still be ahead on weight and drag. I figure that I would be
out with them to assist their entry & egress anyway.
>
> Anybody out there who has not installed the step have any positive or
negative advice on this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, tail and wings completed,
> starting fueslage.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113635#113635
>
>
> --
5:18 PM
>
>
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
IMO I think 50 psi is too high. That may well be the max pressure allowed by
the tire manufacturer but that doesn't mean that the tire should be pumped up
that high on such a light aircraft.
For example - 6:00-6 4 ply tires have a max inflation pressure of 29 psi. On my
L16 Champ, the USAF recommended a max inflation of 15 psi. The reduced pressure
provides an important shock absorbing effect for the landing gear. It is
the aircraft manufacturer (you) that determines recommended tire pressures.
I found a formula that may be of some use:
Weight on tire x max tire pressure x 1.04 Tire Load Rating = inflation pressure
of tire (when AC resting on wheels)
For example, if we assume a weight of 600 lbs on a main tire then it would be 600
x 50 x 1.04 1285 or 24 psi
Just something to think about.....
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113665#113665
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Folded wing the hard way |
Cann't find the post that ref. to the ZR-71 but think it should have been
SR-71= Black Bird. Maybe we should be building the F-15, see the link below.
Jerry-GA
_http://www.sonnyradio.com/F15.wmv_ (http://www.sonnyradio.com/F15.wmv)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
That was precisely my first thought, as the Condor tires I received from
ZAC are rated 1285 lb., but what about the load that would be imparted
by a hard landing - should not that be considered?
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Shoup
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire Pressure
50 psi is the maximum, not the reccomended pressure. At 50 psi a
5.00x5 6pr tire has a rated maximum load of 1285 lbs. per tire, or 3855
lbs on three of them. A 601XL with a max gross weight of 1320 lbs isn't
even close. I don't know what the proper pressure is, but it is
certainly much less than 50 psi.
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 601 main gear Bungees |
Hi List
It looks like it is time to change the right main gear bungees on my 601HD.
I am not looking forward to this job. I didn't install the original ones and
it looks like it will be a pain in the a_ _ . I am not sure which bungees to
use. The 1080 are rated for 750lbs with the 2 required for each main
equaling a rating of1500lbs. The 1080HD are rated for 900lbs equaling a
rating of 1800lbs. Which do I use? Does anyone have an easy way to do this
job? I have checked the archives and it doesn't look like fun dealing with
the bolts and nuts on the gear box.
Thanks in advance
John 601HD 912ul and no problems with the wings even in some pretty heavy
turbulence
_________________________________________________________________
Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live
Hotmail.
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
I just looked at 6-G-1, 6-G-2, and 6-G-3 and there is no chart and the
required tire pressure is not shown!!!
Tracy Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:27 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Tire Pressure
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> They got it from the tire manufacturer, Condor. Look on page 6 of the
> build manual 6-G. There is a picture of the chart.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113644#113644
>
>
>
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | One possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Structural" |
Phil is on the money about all the dust in the air. And words have meaning.
The word "Failure" is one example. I learned in an accident investigation
course that "Failure" is rarely used by investigators. Rather, the event is
described with precise terms as "collapsed, fractured, ruptured, deformed" or other
appropriate term. "Failure" implies that the part did not meet design goals.
Legalistic hair splitting. I apologize. That said, I am with Phil and others
that have expressed confidence in the design. I remain tuned in to the list for
any thing new. The only thing that has changed for me is that I may not base at
the 3500' paved airport, but on my property. I am trying to buy a 75' by
1600' piece of land abutting my property. Its too late and I'm unwilling to change
projects to a 701. I think the climb prop that I have on hand will make the
XL work out OK. At least that's what I have been told.
Do not archive
Bob
XL/Lyc
**************************************
See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John, drawing 6-L-0 list all bungee as P/N: 1080HD for the 601HD. I have not
installed mine so cann't help there but other's web site does show U clamps
being used. Jerry-GA
Hi List
It looks like it is time to change the right main gear bungees on my 601HD.
DO NOT ARCHIVE"
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tire Pressure |
Not the planes the construction manual. Follow this link.
[url]http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf [/url]
rstone4(at)hot.rr.com wrote:
> I just looked at 6-G-1, 6-G-2, and 6-G-3 and there is no chart and the
> required tire pressure is not shown!!!
>
> Tracy Stone
>
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113708#113708
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: One possibility on How Threads like "Flutter" and "Structural" |
Hi Max,
I think the XL is supposed to have a 500 foot takeoff distance. I am
not sure which engine that supposes, but I think 1600 feet is plenty
of runway for an XL.
The more difficult issue, I think, will be landing on a shorter
strip. That can be enhanced using an LRI or other AOA device to
allow minimum approach speeds.
When I think of the issues with renting a hangar at the local paved
airport, I wish I could come up with even a thousand foot runway at my place.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 04:00 PM 5/18/2007, you wrote:
>Phil is on the money about all the dust in the air. And words have
>meaning. The word "Failure" is one example. I learned in an accident
>investigation course that "Failure" is rarely used by investigators.
>Rather, the event is described with precise terms as "collapsed,
>fractured, ruptured, deformed" or other appropriate term. "Failure"
>implies that the part did not meet design goals. Legalistic hair
>splitting. I apologize. That said, I am with Phil and others that
>have expressed confidence in the design. I remain tuned in to the
>list for any thing new. The only thing that has changed for me is
>that I may not base at the 3500' paved airport, but on my property.
>I am trying to buy a 75' by 1600' piece of land abutting my
>property. Its too late and I'm unwilling to change projects to a
>701. I think the climb prop that I have on hand will make the XL
>work out OK. At least that's what I have been told.
>Do not archive
>Bob
>XL/Lyc
>
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Well I guess I better put the center of that center wing spar in the center of
the fuselage because that is where I measured everything from when I set the dihedral
on the bench. Did one wing spar at a time like the picture below. Center
spar was pilot drilled 1/4, marked the wing spars then drilled them then
reset the wing spar and checked dimensions when it was bolted with 1/4, opened
the holes one hole at a time while the center and wing were in final position.
Let me know what troubles this might give me.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113712#113712
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1070_115.jpg
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
Heard that question, sitting on the wing leading edge, asked of Chris Heintz at
SnF 2007. His reply was to increase the number of nose ribs to match the 4 in
the rear in that area.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113713#113713
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|