Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - Lay it to rest!!! (chrisoz@bmail.com.au)
2. 12:48 AM - Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine (chrisoz@bmail.com.au)
3. 02:03 AM - Re: Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine (Peter Franke)
4. 03:25 AM - Re: Re: Questions (Kevin L. Rupert)
5. 03:34 AM - Re: Help for Zenith 601 and corvair builders (Juan Vega)
6. 05:25 AM - Tri Gear 601, step or no step (charles.long@gm.com)
7. 05:49 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (cbaron66)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Questions (David Mikesell)
9. 07:13 AM - Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? (japhillipsga@aol.com)
10. 07:32 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (austria)
11. 07:52 AM - Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? ()
12. 07:52 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (ashontz)
13. 07:56 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (ashontz)
14. 08:03 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (ashontz)
15. 08:14 AM - Flutter Testing (Michael Valentine)
16. 08:26 AM - Re: The last word . . . I hope. (ashontz)
17. 09:05 AM - Re: Flutter Testing (John Bolding)
18. 09:25 AM - Re: Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine (Craig Payne)
19. 10:53 AM - Re: Help for Zenith 601 and corvair builders (PatrickW)
20. 12:53 PM - Re: wing baggage fastenerswing baggage fasteners (Tim Juhl)
21. 01:16 PM - Zodiac 601-XL (Joe)
22. 02:11 PM - Who was the Dynon employee building a 601? (Gig Giacona)
23. 04:52 PM - Re: Flutter Testing (ROBERT SCEPPA)
24. 07:02 PM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (Ron Lendon)
25. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Questions (Ronald Steele)
26. 07:34 PM - Remove from List (ok2av8@aol.com)
27. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Questions (David Mikesell)
28. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: Questions (Ronald Steele)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lay it to rest!!! |
Can we please stop talking about balanced or unbalanced ailerons here? It
is getting stale big time. It just so happens that the 601 family has
unbalanced ailerons. And no aileron hinges. Live with it!
I have been on this list for 7 years, and this is one of the less
productive lines of discussion, plus it makes the 601 look unsafe to all
and sundry, newbies to the site and my wife if she ever bothered to read
the list.
Chris from Oz
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine |
Hello Listers,
I have been wondering how I can install a fuel flow meter with a fuel
injected engine or a Rotax 914.
Both types of engine have fuel return lines that lead excess fuel back to
the tank. A fuel flow meter on the fuel line from the tank to the engine
would therefore overread the used fuel amount.
Also, would the fuel return line necessarily have to go back to the fuel
tank or could it just be hooked back into the gascolator if the pump is
between the gascolator and the engine? In that case it would be possible
to put the fuel flow meter between the tank and the gascolator and have
accurate readings.
Don't want to stuff this one up, the sound of silence on the test flight
of my 914 would spoil the day....
Cheers,
Chris from Oz
Building Zodiac number 5...
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine |
Hi Chris,
I think this might be what you're after.
http://www.matronics.com/ftp/PDFs/rfc.pdf
Put a flow meter on the line going to the engine, and another one on the
return line, and this little do-dad calculates the difference.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
chrisoz@bmail.com.au
Sent: Monday, 21 May 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine
Hello Listers,
I have been wondering how I can install a fuel flow meter with a fuel
injected engine or a Rotax 914.
Both types of engine have fuel return lines that lead excess fuel back to
the tank. A fuel flow meter on the fuel line from the tank to the engine
would therefore overread the used fuel amount.
Also, would the fuel return line necessarily have to go back to the fuel
tank or could it just be hooked back into the gascolator if the pump is
between the gascolator and the engine? In that case it would be possible
to put the fuel flow meter between the tank and the gascolator and have
accurate readings.
Don't want to stuff this one up, the sound of silence on the test flight
of my 914 would spoil the day....
Cheers,
Chris from Oz
Building Zodiac number 5...
Message 4
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Maybe that statement was painted with too wide a brush. I was referring
to to the older ragwing Cessna's and pipers and although they are
statically balanced, they are not dynamically balanced as the newer
models are. My apologies.
KLR
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Help for Zenith 601 and corvair builders |
bill.
i saw you article in the magazine. on the KR nice plane great job..
-----Original Message-----
>From: William Clapp <iflykrs@yahoo.com>
>Sent: May 21, 2007 1:30 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Help for Zenith 601 and corvair builders
>
>
>This is my first post to this site and I would like to welcome you to visit my web site (not finished yet) at www.billclapp.com. You may find some information there that would be useful for you as a Zenith builder and pilot. Since my work with Flycorvair .com and KRs has grown I have been starting to expand into helping the Zenith market as well. I hope to be able to help you all in what I can. Thank you....Bill Clapp
>
>--------
>Check out my web site - see if I can help you in your dreams....
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113940#113940
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Tri Gear 601, step or no step |
Having now flown 100+ hours in my HDS, I would have to say that the
step is quite useful for boarding and unboarding the plane. It is
especially useful for older folks, and Young Eagle flights. I know it is
some extra work to install, and it does add a bit of extra weight & drag,
but like the aileron trim, I believe you will be happy you took the extra
time to install it. I would also recommend the rear wing reinforcement for
the HD & HDS versions. I have had many people step on that area, even
though I tell them to "stay on the black".
Clear Skies!
Chuck Long
Zodie Rocket
N601LE, 105 hr TT
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Now that is a scary video!!! [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113959#113959
Message 8
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I did not say the 601 had to have them, my comment was how a A&P with a IA
thinks Cessna 150, 152,172,182,205,206,210, etc doesn't have a balanced
control surface?
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>
> Gee!! I wonder how that factory demo plane has survived all these years
> without balanced ailerons. I guess the Heintz family has just been lucky,
> huh? I know...maybe we should call and warn them they're flying a death
> trap!
> (SERIOUS SARCASM INTENDED)
>
> "A Brief Note from Zenith Aircraft Company:
> We are pleased to report that our red and white factory demonstrator
> Zodiac XL (N9601Z) is now six years old and has logged over 1,000 hours.
> The aircraft has crisscrossed the United States dozens of times through
> all kinds of conditions. We fly well over 300 demo flights per year in
> this aircraft; that's over 1,800 passengers over the last 6 years.
> Additionally, over 15,000 people have taken a seat in this aircraft over
> the years at different shows and fly-ins, as well as at the factory. The
> plane flies as well today as it did when it was new; we feel very
> fortunate being the kit manufacturer for such a fine aircraft. The fact
> that our demo plane still looks and performs as well as it does is a
> testament to the design's integrity and robustness."
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113942#113942
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
Ed, I'm 5,8 and a step is really necessary, not for entry cause I can step up and
over the flap, but to get off the wing without jumping or putting all the shift
weight onto the turtle deck a step is needed. What I would do different if
building again is employ the torq rod inside method of mounting the steps. Sometime
back (couple years) a builder posted some really great photos (somewhere
?) of how he modified the whole step system where only a hole in the bottom
was made and the step came out. Looked real neat and I wish I had thought of
it when I was building. Flew my "death trap" XL yesterday with a good friend.
He had never experienced power on and off stalls before. Hope he'll fly with me
again someday. Ha. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Sat, 19 May 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Anybody delete the cabin access step??
Regardless of the number of nose ribs your kit has or whether or not you care to
add one more nose rib, most of us can get onto the wing from the trailing edge
without a step installed. Unless you have bum kness, you can (from the left side
for example) put your left knee ove the flap onto the wing walk area and with
your left hand gripping the cockpit side rail, you can pull your carcass,
including the sole of your right foot, onto the wing walk. The key is to
remember to drop the flaps to full extended position when you park the plane.
With all the other little concessions to heavier conveniences that I have made,
I am seriously considering leaving the entry step off my 601XL. A bit less
weight, a bit less drag, and no opportunity for a heavy passenger to load his or
her weight farther aft of the main wheels...... it's worth thinking about. For
the seriously stiff or inflexible, a paint can with a string attached to the lid
would be an option on occassion.
Dred
________________________________________________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Wing flutter video:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Videos/dg-300-flatterversuch.wmv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113976#113976
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody delete the cabin access step?? |
I'm still chewing on the options Bill. I had no trouble getting in or out of an
RV7-A that belongs to a friend of mine. That wing is higher off the ground than
the Zodiac wing. It is mostly a matter of repeating the routine in reverse
to get back on the ground. The biggest negative is putting one's weight one one
knee during the process. I'm 5' 8" also so your advice is as valid for me as
it is for you.
The friend with the RV7-A was with me at a fly-in this weekend and we discussed
possibly flying out your way in the late summer this year (a weekend adventure?).
I'd like to bum a ride in the Zodiac if you'll have me. It would help get
my mind right vis a vis the likelihood of flying mine late this year. We'd both
like to see the RV8 project as well. Think we could work that out? What is
your airport designation?
Ed
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Andy,
>
> I noticed you mentioned you only drilled one side of the center spar. I set
the dihedral of both wing spars and the center spar before I began the wing assembly.
Did I make a mistake here? Should I have waited to drill one end till
later? Why?
I only have one wing spar so far. :) The center spar is hanging on the wall. When
I'm ready to drill the other I'll set that up flat on the table and set that
dyhedral and drill that spar.
Sounds like you made both spars at the same time.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113982#113982
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
This can be done one at a time I believe. The plans show the tip height about the
center spar. Shouldn't really matter if you do one at a time or both at one,
what does matter is that the line drawn to the center spar is parallel to the
center sparline and the perpendicular line up to the parallel line from the
tip is the measurement called for. In fact, this is hard to do with both spars
at the same time because then you need a 27 foot table to do it right.
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> If you?re a plans builder then you would need to install both spars in
> the center spar, run a string and do the math to ensure that both spars
> are equally set and proper. Their may be other ways but I can't think of
> one that would guarantee accuracy for the plans builder. Then you are
> safe to move on and make each wing, knowing that your center spar is
> correct and ready for installation into the fuselage.
>
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113987#113987
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Well I guess I better put the center of that center wing spar in the center of
the fuselage because that is where I measured everything from when I set the
dihedral on the bench. Did one wing spar at a time like the picture below.
Center spar was pilot drilled 1/4, marked the wing spars then drilled them then
reset the wing spar and checked dimensions when it was bolted with 1/4, opened
the holes one hole at a time while the center and wing were in final position.
Let me know what troubles this might give me.
This is exactly how I'm doing mine, I just don't have the second spar yet. Doing
them both at once requires a 27 foot table. I doubt that was Zenith's intention.
Even doing them both at once, you still have to guarantee that the center
spar is parallel to the line intersecting the tips, which is exactly the same
as insuring a parellel line for one spar at a time. I think you're fine they
way you did it.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113988#113988
Message 15
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A friend in my EAA chapter told me that when he built a Vari-EZ, Burt Rutan
instructed that builders should do a flutter test on their airplanes. This
test was performed by putting the plane in a slight dive and trimmed hands
off at Vne. Then, the pilot was supposed to sharply rap the control stick.
My friend said that this was the only flight testing for which he wore a
parachute, despite the fact that he suspected it would be futile!
I was just wondering if anyone has done a similar test in his/her own
601XL? Does anyone know if CH has done a similar test (I heard a rumor that
Vne testing was the only stage for which he donned a chute, but I don't know
about flutter testing)?
Michael in NH
601XL in progress
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: The last word . . . I hope. |
Thanks but I'm very confident in my flying and building skills.
p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Maybe it is a good time for you to review your whole project. The HD
> is a completely different plane from the XL. They do have
> interchangeable tail parts, but even those are a little different -
> due to the changes to strengthen the tail to meet the LSA consensus
> standard. However, the "Mission" for these planes is quite different.
>
> The HD is designed to have the qualities of a primary trainer. The
> XL is designed for cross country flying. There are many differences
> in these missions.
>
> Perhaps you should ask yourself why you are building a plane, what
> you intend to do with it, and how advanced your pilot skills are. If
> your plans involve flying mostly within gliding distance of your
> starting point and your pilot skills are more similar to a primary
> student than a commercial pilot, then the HD might indeed be a good
> choice for you. On the other hand, if you plan to do a considerable
> amount of cross country flying and your experience includes lots of
> hours and instrument time along with much long distance travel then
> the XL would be a lot more appropriate.
>
> Please note that I didn't include any reference to the possible
> design issues with the XL. While I am concerned about that, I think
> the other points are much more important to choosing which plane to
> build. If your only concern is safety and you have trouble sleeping
> because there MIGHT be problem that impacts a small percentage of XLs
> then I suggest you consider taking up a different hobby. There is NO
> WAY to make experimental airplane flying a completely safe
> endeavor. While flying your XL will probably still be safer than
> driving to the airport to start your flight there will always be
> considerable possibility of a fatal accident flying any airplane and
> even higher probably of an accident when it is an experimental
> airplane built by an amateur rather than a factory built certified plane.
>
> The bottom line is that life is an adventure which always ends in
> death. Perhaps Shakespeare said it best in Julius Caesar:
>
> "Cowards die many times before their deaths;
> The valiant never taste of death but once."
>
> Good luck with your dilemma,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
> At 07:34 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote:
>
> > Believe me, I've actually entertained the idea of just stopping work
> > all together on the XL and ordering plans for an HD. Wouldn't take
> > me anywhere near as long to rebuild. I wouldn't be surprised if the
> > HD uses the same stabilizer, elevator, and rudder (not saying it
> > does, I don't know) so all I'd really be shit out of would be the
> > time and a couple hundred dollars building the right wing.
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113995#113995
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing |
Michael,
Sadly in the last 35 yrs that I've been messing with these little
airplanes we have moved away from "everybody that built an airplane did
their own structural/flutter testing as part of their 40hr test period"
to one of
"trust the designer to have covered ALL the bases and our butts, no
matter what, and just use the 40 hrs to learn how to land it and find
out how fast it cruises".
Van also gave out those instructions to be followed during testing
(don't know if he still does or not) as well as Thorp, Wittman, C.G.
Taylor, Thurston and probably some other notables I've forgotten.
It's not a fun thing to do, exciting is putting it mildly but you KNEW
when you finished that it WAS NOT going to fold up on you or flutter.
The flutter tests were done at MANY speeds, slowly building to Vne. The
structural testing was done with a G meter at gross weight, increasing
flight loads "till you were at or right below limit loads.
I'll continue doing my own so I KNOW.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Valentine
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 10:14 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flutter Testing
A friend in my EAA chapter told me that when he built a Vari-EZ, Burt
Rutan instructed that builders should do a flutter test on their
airplanes. This test was performed by putting the plane in a slight
dive and trimmed hands off at Vne. Then, the pilot was supposed to
sharply rap the control stick. My friend said that this was the only
flight testing for which he wore a parachute, despite the fact that he
suspected it would be futile!
I was just wondering if anyone has done a similar test in his/her own
601XL? Does anyone know if CH has done a similar test (I heard a rumor
that Vne testing was the only stage for which he donned a chute, but I
don't know about flutter testing)?
Michael in NH
601XL in progress
Message 18
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| Subject: | Fuel flow meter Rotax 914 or fuel injected engine |
Some fuel flow monitors don't need a separate flow gauge on an injected
engine. They just count the pulses to the injectors. MGL's are one example.
Of course unlike a turbine flow sender that doesn't prove that fuel is
actually flowing.
-- Craig
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Help for Zenith 601 and corvair builders |
Nice to see you here Bill.
We've met before. Looking forward to Fargo this week...
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114016#114016
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| Subject: | Re: wing baggage fastenerswing baggage fasteners |
Black thermoplastic half grommets from aircraft spruce - Type GP5B - price 6 each.
They are shaped in such a way that they slip over the shaft of the DZUS fastener
and then lock under the head. They are slightly dished in the center
and a little thicker than milk carton material. They work very well.
That said, if you want to make your own, have at it!
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114028#114028
Message 21
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Looking for pictures and or sketch's of 601XL w/lycoming 0235 C-1
mainly firewall forward and your instrument panels if possible.
JH
Message 22
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| Subject: | Who was the Dynon employee building a 601? |
There was someone that posted here and was also a Dynon employee.
Could you e-mail me off list?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114047#114047
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing |
> A CHUTE PLUS A BRS!! do not archive
--- Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com> wrote:
> A friend in my EAA chapter told me that when he
> built a Vari-EZ, Burt Rutan
> instructed that builders should do a flutter test on
> their airplanes. This
> test was performed by putting the plane in a slight
> dive and trimmed hands
> off at Vne. Then, the pilot was supposed to sharply
> rap the control stick.
> My friend said that this was the only flight testing
> for which he wore a
> parachute, despite the fact that he suspected it
> would be futile!
>
> I was just wondering if anyone has done a similar
> test in his/her own
> 601XL? Does anyone know if CH has done a similar
> test (I heard a rumor that
> Vne testing was the only stage for which he donned a
> chute, but I don't know
> about flutter testing)?
>
> Michael in NH
> 601XL in progress
>
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings |
Yep, I did them both at the same time. When both right and left are symmetrically
opposite its faster to make both parts at the same time.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114093#114093
Message 25
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(first post to this forum - working on xl rudder kit)
I'm assuming you mean the surfaces are statically balanced. Could
you describe mechanically how that works. I just flew in a 182 today
and I'll be darned if I can see how it's done. All I can think of
is a some sort of counter weight attached to the control linkage
inside the wing. This seems like an iffy way to do static balancing
as you have the slop in the control linkage that could contribute to
flutter. Other than the control linkage there is nothing that
extends forward of the aileron hinge that could account for a counter
weight.
If the you are talking about dynamic balance, I'm not real sure how
you could know how it's balanced without access to Cessna's design
and testing documents? I guess the same goes for the 601XL.
Ron
On May 21, 2007, at 9:39 AM, David Mikesell wrote:
> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>
> I did not say the 601 had to have them, my comment was how a A&P
> with a IA thinks Cessna 150, 152,172,182,205,206,210, etc doesn't
> have a balanced control surface?
>
>
> David Mikesell
> 23597 N. Hwy 99
> Acampo, CA 95220
> 209-224-4485
> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
> www.skyguynca.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:32 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>
>
>>
>> Gee!! I wonder how that factory demo plane has survived all these
>> years without balanced ailerons. I guess the Heintz family has
>> just been lucky, huh? I know...maybe we should call and warn them
>> they're flying a death trap!
>> (SERIOUS SARCASM INTENDED)
>>
>> "A Brief Note from Zenith Aircraft Company:
>> We are pleased to report that our red and white factory
>> demonstrator Zodiac XL (N9601Z) is now six years old and has
>> logged over 1,000 hours. The aircraft has crisscrossed the United
>> States dozens of times through all kinds of conditions. We fly
>> well over 300 demo flights per year in this aircraft; that's over
>> 1,800 passengers over the last 6 years. Additionally, over 15,000
>> people have taken a seat in this aircraft over the years at
>> different shows and fly-ins, as well as at the factory. The plane
>> flies as well today as it did when it was new; we feel very
>> fortunate being the kit manufacturer for such a fine aircraft. The
>> fact that our demo plane still looks and performs as well as it
>> does is a testament to the design's integrity and robustness."
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113942#113942
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Remove from List |
Please Remove ok2av8@aol.com from this list
________________________________________________________________________
Message 27
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Hi Ron,
If you take the 182 aileron and move it with the trailing edge full up and
then look inside the gap between the wing and the aileron at the lower edge
at the front of the aileron you should see a lead bar about 5/8 of a in tall
and about 1/2 wide riveted there, that is the counter balance.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Steele" <rsteele@rjsit.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>
> (first post to this forum - working on xl rudder kit)
>
> I'm assuming you mean the surfaces are statically balanced. Could you
> describe mechanically how that works. I just flew in a 182 today and
> I'll be darned if I can see how it's done. All I can think of is a some
> sort of counter weight attached to the control linkage inside the wing.
> This seems like an iffy way to do static balancing as you have the slop
> in the control linkage that could contribute to flutter. Other than the
> control linkage there is nothing that extends forward of the aileron
> hinge that could account for a counter weight.
>
> If the you are talking about dynamic balance, I'm not real sure how you
> could know how it's balanced without access to Cessna's design and
> testing documents? I guess the same goes for the 601XL.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On May 21, 2007, at 9:39 AM, David Mikesell wrote:
>
>> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>>
>> I did not say the 601 had to have them, my comment was how a A&P with a
>> IA thinks Cessna 150, 152,172,182,205,206,210, etc doesn't have a
>> balanced control surface?
>>
>>
>>
>> David Mikesell
>> 23597 N. Hwy 99
>> Acampo, CA 95220
>> 209-224-4485
>> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
>> www.skyguynca.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:32 PM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Gee!! I wonder how that factory demo plane has survived all these years
>>> without balanced ailerons. I guess the Heintz family has just been
>>> lucky, huh? I know...maybe we should call and warn them they're flying
>>> a death trap!
>>> (SERIOUS SARCASM INTENDED)
>>>
>>> "A Brief Note from Zenith Aircraft Company:
>>> We are pleased to report that our red and white factory demonstrator
>>> Zodiac XL (N9601Z) is now six years old and has logged over 1,000
>>> hours. The aircraft has crisscrossed the United States dozens of times
>>> through all kinds of conditions. We fly well over 300 demo flights per
>>> year in this aircraft; that's over 1,800 passengers over the last 6
>>> years. Additionally, over 15,000 people have taken a seat in this
>>> aircraft over the years at different shows and fly-ins, as well as at
>>> the factory. The plane flies as well today as it did when it was new;
>>> we feel very fortunate being the kit manufacturer for such a fine
>>> aircraft. The fact that our demo plane still looks and performs as well
>>> as it does is a testament to the design's integrity and robustness."
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113942#113942
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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Cool, I'll take a look during my next pre-flight (I'm a student).
Thanks for the reply.
Ron
On May 21, 2007, at 10:48 PM, David Mikesell wrote:
> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> If you take the 182 aileron and move it with the trailing edge full
> up and then look inside the gap between the wing and the aileron at
> the lower edge at the front of the aileron you should see a lead
> bar about 5/8 of a in tall and about 1/2 wide riveted there, that
> is the counter balance.
>
> David Mikesell
> 23597 N. Hwy 99
> Acampo, CA 95220
> 209-224-4485
> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
> www.skyguynca.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Steele" <rsteele@rjsit.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>
>
>>
>> (first post to this forum - working on xl rudder kit)
>>
>> I'm assuming you mean the surfaces are statically balanced.
>> Could you describe mechanically how that works. I just flew in a
>> 182 today and I'll be darned if I can see how it's done. All I
>> can think of is a some sort of counter weight attached to the
>> control linkage inside the wing. This seems like an iffy way to
>> do static balancing as you have the slop in the control linkage
>> that could contribute to flutter. Other than the control linkage
>> there is nothing that extends forward of the aileron hinge that
>> could account for a counter weight.
>>
>> If the you are talking about dynamic balance, I'm not real sure
>> how you could know how it's balanced without access to Cessna's
>> design and testing documents? I guess the same goes for the 601XL.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On May 21, 2007, at 9:39 AM, David Mikesell wrote:
>>
>>> <skyguynca@skyguynca.com>
>>>
>>> I did not say the 601 had to have them, my comment was how a A&P
>>> with a IA thinks Cessna 150, 152,172,182,205,206,210, etc
>>> doesn't have a balanced control surface?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Mikesell
>>> 23597 N. Hwy 99
>>> Acampo, CA 95220
>>> 209-224-4485
>>> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
>>> www.skyguynca.com
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:32 PM
>>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Questions
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gee!! I wonder how that factory demo plane has survived all
>>>> these years without balanced ailerons. I guess the Heintz
>>>> family has just been lucky, huh? I know...maybe we should call
>>>> and warn them they're flying a death trap!
>>>> (SERIOUS SARCASM INTENDED)
>>>>
>>>> "A Brief Note from Zenith Aircraft Company:
>>>> We are pleased to report that our red and white factory
>>>> demonstrator Zodiac XL (N9601Z) is now six years old and has
>>>> logged over 1,000 hours. The aircraft has crisscrossed the
>>>> United States dozens of times through all kinds of conditions.
>>>> We fly well over 300 demo flights per year in this aircraft;
>>>> that's over 1,800 passengers over the last 6 years.
>>>> Additionally, over 15,000 people have taken a seat in this
>>>> aircraft over the years at different shows and fly-ins, as well
>>>> as at the factory. The plane flies as well today as it did when
>>>> it was new; we feel very fortunate being the kit manufacturer
>>>> for such a fine aircraft. The fact that our demo plane still
>>>> looks and performs as well as it does is a testament to the
>>>> design's integrity and robustness."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113942#113942
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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