---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/24/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:52 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings (ashontz) 2. 05:13 AM - Rivets (Kevin L. Rupert) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: Rivets (DaveG601XL) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Rivets (Kevin L. Rupert) 5. 06:46 AM - For Swap or sale (AVIIDFLYIER@aol.com) 6. 06:59 AM - Re: Builder in Dallas Area with Wings Complete? 601XL (BobTezyk) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: Rivets (DaveG601XL) 8. 07:19 AM - Re: More Press Coverage on G-YOXI (Paul Tipton) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Rivets (Larry Winger) 10. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Rivets (Larry Winger) 11. 07:54 AM - Can I bend a cabin frame? (Tony Bonsell) 12. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Rivets (Kevin L. Rupert) 13. 08:50 AM - 601XL tube frames (wade jones) 14. 09:41 AM - Re: Can I bend a cabin frame? (MacDonald Doug) 15. 11:40 AM - Re: 601XL tube frames (Herbert Heaton) 16. 11:52 AM - Re: 601XL tube frames (LarryMcFarland) 17. 12:11 PM - Re: 601XL tube frames (Craig Payne) 18. 12:55 PM - Re: 601XL tube frames (wade jones) 19. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Rivets (David Downey) 20. 05:47 PM - Re: Crash (Tim Juhl) 21. 06:12 PM - Gear Questions (Michael Valentine) 22. 06:53 PM - Re: Gear Questions (Aaron Gustafson) 23. 07:05 PM - Re: Gear Questions (kevinbonds) 24. 07:51 PM - Re: Crash (rgeese) 25. 09:03 PM - Re: Gear Questions (Edward Moody II) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuselage build before wings From: "ashontz" I;m roughly at the same stage. do not archive Ron Lendon wrote: > Andy, > > Here is the process I followed so far. Make all the forms first. Made the rudder, Stabilizer, Elevator w/trim tab, Made all the ribs for the Flaps and Ailerons, Form & Skin the flaps, Trim & Form all wing nose ribs, Form & Skin the Aileron, Form & trim all rear wing ribs, Layed out one wing spar web but made two (had them stacked), (Used the spar webs as the drilling template for the spar caps and cap angles, made both wing spars.), Made the Center Spars, Set Dihedral, Form both fuel tanks, Build up the left wing skeleton, Make both left and right top & bottom wing skins, The left wing is on the table and nearing completion. The right one will go a lot faster because much less going on inside it and many of the parts are already made. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114511#114511 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:53 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets Guys, Can anybody tell me the length of the dash 5 rivets used in the spar? I have been tasked with ordering them and my plans are at my son's house 200 mi. away. Thanks Kevin ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets From: "DaveG601XL" I have attached the rivet spec from Avex. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, working on fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114522#114522 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/avex_rivets_spec_201.pdf ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:24 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets Thanks Dave but I need the size of the solid AN470's used in the spar caps. I've already got my Avex rivets but neglected to get the solid rivets. Kevin ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:43 AM PST US From: AVIIDFLYIER@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: For Swap or sale I think building the STOL CH-701 is just too long a project. I have the tail feathers finished and the left wing 98% done. The fuel tanks are ready to be installed. Write me off line (_aviidflyier@aol.com_ (mailto:aviidflyier@aol.com) ) and lets talk sale or swap...trade etc. approximately $7,000 invested...willing to work with you. Must see no shipping. The parts are in my Shop and in the way. I will consider 1 1/2 inch scale locomotive, 750 CC Honda motorcycle, small crawler tractor, Travel trailer...etc write first call later. Thomas H. Knox, DMD 3401 Main Street Tarboro, NC 27886 Tarboro is 1/2 half way between NY and FL. Exit 143 Rocky Mount NC. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builder in Dallas Area with Wings Complete? 601XL From: "BobTezyk" Hi John, I have a quick build kit with the wings half assembled at the factory. I have not uncrated them yet but if you don't mind helping me do that you are welcome to look. I am a road warrior and only get home every other weekend. My next time home is June 1-3. I am located in Midlothian, 22 miles south of Dallas. -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114545#114545 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets From: "DaveG601XL" DUH! I should have read your note better. Per the drawing 6-W-3 Dated 04/05, I see the following: Spar Cap & Doubler (top and bottom) AN470-AD-6-14, 142 required Top and bottom between stiffeners AN470-AD-5-9, 144 required Top and bottom through hat stiffeners AN470-AD-5-10, 32 required -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, working on fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114551#114551 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:33 AM PST US From: "Paul Tipton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Press Coverage on G-YOXI Zenith and Czech Aircraft Works have parted company... seemed to be a mutual deal, since CZAW was designing and producing there own planes. http://www.airplane.cz/zenair.htm CH 701, 321PT, Czech built ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:08 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets Kevin, In the example of a rivet marked AN-470-AD-5-9, here is the code. AN = Army Navy 470 = Head type AD = Material type (in this case 2117 T4) 5 = Shank diameter in 32nds of an inch (in this case 5/32nds diameter) 9 = Length in 16ths of an inch (in this case 9/16ths length) In the case of a 470 universal head, which we use, the length is measured from the end of the shank to the base of the head. For the record, page 27 of the new Zenith Construction Standards manual (a very helpful document, by the way) has the length and diameter reversed in their example at the top of the page. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair On 5/24/07, Kevin L. Rupert wrote: > > > Thanks Dave but I need the size of the solid AN470's used in the spar > caps. I've already got my Avex rivets but neglected to get the solid > rivets. > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:04 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets Kevin, One last thing. Here is the link to the Aircraft Spruce online catalog page for solid rivets. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/solidalumrivets.php Larry Winger Tustin, CA Scratch building 601XL/Corvair Control surfaces complete/2nd wing spar 80% done On 5/24/07, Kevin L. Rupert wrote: > > > Thanks Dave but I need the size of the solid AN470's used in the spar > caps. I've already got my Avex rivets but neglected to get the solid > rivets. > > Kevin > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Can I bend a cabin frame? From: Tony Bonsell Hi Guys Having a bit of a problem here. I'm at the stage of joining the front and rear fuse with the cabin frame on my 701. I've got the engine mount in place too. Everything seems to be working out well, except for the fact that one of the front legs of the factory frame is out of alignment, confirmed by taking diagonal measurements of both sides when apart. It's actually pulling the fuse in at the front on the one side, throwing off the extensions at the firewall and making the front fuse side bend out of alignment. I've checked and rechecked with digital level, water level and laser levels, so I know I'm not in error. And to get it in it's proper place I'll have to force it slightly, which I know puts stress on the weld, which is bad. So I'm wondering if I can bend it out somehow. Can I do a gradual heating with a propane torch? At the weld, or away from it? Am I crazy to even try? ****************************************************** Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications 535 Cragg Road, RR #3 Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 Voice: 905.852.3848 http://www.luxuria.com ****************************************************** ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:26 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets Thanks All, I have what I need and the rivets are ordered. Kevin ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:49 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames Hello group ,when plans building are the tube frames 6-B-21-1 & 6-B-21-2 difficult to bend .My plan is to build the form per plans and try to match the form while bending . Any suggestions . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:11 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Can I bend a cabin frame? Tony, I am scratch building my CH-701. I had my cabin frame dialed in perfect until I finish welded the joints. The torch heat threw the uprights out quite a bit. I found it was fairly simple to tweak it back into shape. A bit of heat from a propane torch should be enough for you since the material is so thin. You should be able to get a nice red glow. I would be careful to not colapse anything or create any stress risers. You might want to touch base with Mark or David at Can-Zac just to be sure but I think you will find it pretty easy to fix. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder Fuse on the gear Starting the wings tonight. NW Ontario, Canada --- Tony Bonsell wrote: > > > Hi Guys > > Having a bit of a problem here. I'm at the stage of > joining the front and > rear fuse with the cabin frame on my 701. I've got > the engine mount in place > too. Everything seems to be working out well, except > for the fact that one > of the front legs of the factory frame is out of > alignment, ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:11 AM PST US From: "Herbert Heaton" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames Wade, I'm going to try to bend my frames today. I traced the coordinates on a large piece of paper and will use that for a visual reference. I have a conduit bender that I am going to try. I put a layer of inner tube rubber inside the groove to keep from marking the tubing. I think by making small bends every inch or so, I should be able to make a usable part. Herb, Colorado Springs, CO >From: "wade jones" >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames >Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:49:10 -0500 > >Hello group ,when plans building are the tube frames 6-B-21-1 & 6-B-21-2 >difficult to bend .My plan is to build the form per plans and try to match >the form while bending . Any suggestions . Thanks >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:00 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames Hi Wade, You can bend the tubes very accurately if you fill and pack them with fine sand, cap them with a wooden plug and set up a simple bend apparatus of clamps, a piece of square tube and small rigid steel casters. You work on a table, using it as the jig, trace the form you want on the table just in front of the bend area and do a little at a time. You can also bend your top longerons this way and remove a little bend the same way. See links http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/frontbowbend.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/frontbowadjust.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/fuselage/full/longeronbender.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/fuselage/full/longeronbend.gif Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com wade jones wrote: > Hello group ,when plans building are the tube frames 6-B-21-1 & > 6-B-21-2 difficult to bend .My plan is to build the form per plans and > try to match the form while bending . Any suggestions . Thanks > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:41 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames The attached photos show how I did it (based on Larry McFarland's approach). As Larry said, pack them with sand. Also buy the tubes about 2 feet longer that the finished part to give you some leverage when making the initial bend by hand around your form block. For the tighter part of the curve towards the ends I use a smaller radius work block (not shown) of about 5 inch radius. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:07 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames Thanks to all of you for the ideas for tube bending .And Larry I used your method for bending the longerons and it worked great . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL tube frames The attached photos show how I did it (based on Larry McFarland's approach). As Larry said, pack them with sand. Also buy the tubes about 2 feet longer that the finished part to give you some leverage when making the initial bend by hand around your form block. For the tighter part of the curve towards the ends I use a smaller radius work block (not shown) of about 5 inch radius. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:47 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivets please forgive me if I amway off track here but the Spar assembly is mostly MS20470AD rivets - not Avex. I have attached the rivet spec from Avex. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, working on fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114522#114522 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/avex_rivets_spec_201.pdf Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Crash From: "Tim Juhl" >From NTSB On May 21, 2007, about 0736 central daylight time, an experimental amateur-built Wood Vans RV7A, N7259N, sustained substantial damage on impact with a runway sign during landing and with terrain during a go around from runway 27 at the Union County Airport, near Marysville, Ohio. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114637#114637 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:47 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Gear Questions Going through the archives, there still seems to be very little about alternative landing gear. So, I will ask again...! Does anyone have some specific experience to share regarding installing either Grove gear or the composite gear? Speaking of which, I can't actually find Grove gear for the 601 - the sites only seem to list gear for the 701. Specifically, what Grove gear are people installing? BTW, I spoke with the factory and they said that although they are exploring the composite gear, it is only going to be offered to European customers. Has anyone here actually installed the composite gear from Aircraft Spruce (NK-03A-550 -- 601XL)? Thanks, Michael in NH 601XL ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:49 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gear Questions I have some answers if you email me direct agustafson at chartermi.net ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:08 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gear Questions I would be interested in those answers as well. Could you email the group? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gear Questions I have some answers if you email me direct agustafson at chartermi.net ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Crash From: "rgeese" Yes, it was an RV-7A. He flew down the 4200' runway at 10' agl then hit a rwy sign at the departure end, apparently causing some damage to the gear and control cables. He gained some altitude, then slowly spiraled into the ground. The strange question is why he flew the length of the rwy without landing on a calm early morning. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114654#114654 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:39 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gear Questions I'm guessing that you spoke to them more recently than I did but a few months ago when the European factory built 601XLs showed up with the composite main gear, I asked the factory about availability of the composite gear for a kit in progress (mine). They told me then that the gear would eventually be available for the 601XL kits but they had no firm timeline. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Valentine To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Gear Questions Going through the archives, there still seems to be very little about alternative landing gear. So, I will ask again...! Does anyone have some specific experience to share regarding installing either Grove gear or the composite gear? Speaking of which, I can't actually find Grove gear for the 601 - the sites only seem to list gear for the 701. Specifically, what Grove gear are people installing? BTW, I spoke with the factory and they said that although they are exploring the composite gear, it is only going to be offered to European customers. Has anyone here actually installed the composite gear from Aircraft Spruce (NK-03A-550 -- 601XL)? Thanks, Michael in NH 601XL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 5/24/2007 4:01 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.