Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Re: Need Handheld Radio Installation (Juan Vega)
2. 05:03 AM - Re: Rotax912ULS/ZodiacXL - selection of propeller??? (Juan Vega)
3. 08:41 AM - Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Ronald Steele)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Stanley Challgren)
5. 09:22 AM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Gig Giacona)
6. 10:37 AM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Bill Naumuk)
7. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (David Downey)
8. 11:57 AM - xl engine choice (flyingmike9)
9. 12:24 PM - 601XL project for sale (TxDave)
10. 12:36 PM - Re: xl engine choice (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 12:48 PM - Re: xl engine choice (David Downey)
12. 12:53 PM - Re: xl engine choice (jonaburns)
13. 01:27 PM - Re: xl engine choice (flyingmike9)
14. 01:53 PM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
15. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: xl engine choice (Jerry Hey)
16. 03:09 PM - Fw: Re: xl engine choice (David Downey)
17. 03:42 PM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (lwinger)
18. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Bill Naumuk)
19. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: xl engine choice (Mark Sherman)
20. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Ronald Steele)
21. 05:36 PM - Scratch building the wing spar (jhines)
22. 05:54 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (Craig Payne)
23. 06:19 PM - Re: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes (JohnDRead@aol.com)
24. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Bill Naumuk)
25. 06:35 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (Bill Naumuk)
26. 07:00 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (jhines)
27. 07:00 PM - Re: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes (Jeff)
28. 07:52 PM - Re: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes (lwinger)
29. 07:54 PM - Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help (Tim Juhl)
30. 08:17 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (Ron Lendon)
31. 08:55 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (jhines)
32. 10:03 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (lwinger)
33. 10:18 PM - Re: ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS Marcelo Matocq (Gary Gower)
34. 10:53 PM - Re: Scratch building the wing spar (TxDave)
35. 10:53 PM - Re: ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS Marcelo Matocq (Craig Payne)
36. 10:58 PM - Re: ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS Marcelo Matocq (Craig Payne)
37. 11:35 PM - Electrical System (Mike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Need Handheld Radio Installation |
good article in 2006 eaa builder magazine. shows how to wire a hand held. check
the archivesx at eaa for 2006 as well.
-----Original Message-----
>From: jetboy <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>
>Sent: May 28, 2007 1:22 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need Handheld Radio Installation
>
>
>Handhelds are usually difficult due to the controls & display being on 2 or more
faces.
>
>In the past I've panel mounted a Delcom 760 by making a 3" plate that the radio
fits into behind the radio's faceplate, fastened from behind in a custom al.
sheet box and with no battery pack.
>
>Thats OK for 3" instrument holes, for smaller its probably best to get another
Xcom, Microair or Becker.
>Ralph
>
>--------
>Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115148#115148
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax912ULS/ZodiacXL - selection of propeller??? |
tracy,
Thats too funny. Since India is the largest English speaking country in the world,
do they speak English or Idian English?. (Inglish?)
Sincerely,
Larry the Cable Guy
-----Original Message-----
>From: robert stone <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
>Sent: May 27, 2007 6:06 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax912ULS/ZodiacXL - selection of propeller???
>
>
>Hay Martin,
> Do you have an English version of your web site. Maybe I should say an
>American version since we all here in the US speak American which is based
>on English but not quite the same.
>
>Tracy Stone
>Harker Heights, Tx
>Zodiac601XL w/Jabiru 330
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:20 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax912ULS/ZodiacXL - selection of propeller???
>
>
>>
>> Hi folks
>>
>> I have to decide on which propeller to install in my Zodiac XL very soon.
>> I did a search through this forum and got some good information about
>> different propeller installations.
>>
>> Nevertheless I am specifically interested in Rotax 912ULS-powered planes
>> (which prop do you use, what performance do you get). I still don't know
>> whether I go for a fixed pitch or a constant speed prop.
>>
>> Looking forward to getting some advice!!!
>>
>> Cheers Martin
>> CH601XL "HB-YNA"
>>
>> --------
>> Martin Pohl
>> Zodiac XL QBK
>> 8645 Jona, Switzerland
>> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115075#115075
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
I'm working on the rudder kit and have a couple of mistakes that I've
no idea how to fix.
While installing the nose skin, I drilled a hole in the wrong place
while trying to attach the skin to the nose rib. So I have a big
ugly rivet hole just above where the proper rivet line falls.
I also have 2 or 3 holes that don't line up properly with the tail
skin/main rudder spar. (I think the number if suggested clecos to
order with the tail kit is a bit low, BTW. I ordered extras and
still feel I don't have enough). I'm guessing that if I re-drill
these I'll get oversize, oval, holes in the tail skin.
Thanks,
Ron
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
On May 28, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Ronald Steele wrote:
>
> . (I think the number of suggested clecos to order with the tail
> kit is a bit low, BTW. I ordered extras and still feel I don't
> have enough).
Ronald:
I have 450 clecos at present and still run short on my 701 project as
rudder, horizontal stabilizer, wings require clecos even as the rear
fuselage takes a huge number until riveting can begin.
Stan
N701VG
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
When you are not actually working on a particular are (and even sometimes when
you are) you don't need to keep a cleco in every hole.
challgren(at)mac.com wrote:
> On May 28, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Ronald Steele wrote:
>
>
> >
> > . (I think the number of suggested clecos to order with the tail
> > kit is a bit low, BTW. I ordered extras and still feel I don't
> > have enough).
> > Ronald:
> >
>
>
> I have 450 clecos at present and still run short on my 701 project as
> rudder, horizontal stabilizer, wings require clecos even as the rear
> fuselage takes a huge number until riveting can begin.
>
> Stan
> N701VG
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115214#115214
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
Ron-
Luckily, that's an easy part to fabricate yourself. You'll never be able
to live with the extra hole, because the rudder's the first thing anyone in
the know looks at. Flame on, but it's the truth! (Next is the fiberglass
tips, then the overall rivet lines).
Prepare yourself now. Order an extra full sheet of .016, .025 and 2'x4'
(At least 2'x2') sheets of .032 and .040 from ACS or Wick's. Do it in one
shot now, because it'll save you shipping and you WILL NEED TO FABRICATE
"OOPS" PARTS!! Fact of life.
As far as tools are concerned, there's someone on the list with the
motto "He who dies with the most tools wins". He's right.
Good building!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Steele" <rsteele@rjsit.com>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:39 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help
>
> I'm working on the rudder kit and have a couple of mistakes that I've no
> idea how to fix.
>
> While installing the nose skin, I drilled a hole in the wrong place while
> trying to attach the skin to the nose rib. So I have a big ugly rivet
> hole just above where the proper rivet line falls.
>
> I also have 2 or 3 holes that don't line up properly with the tail
> skin/main rudder spar. (I think the number if suggested clecos to order
> with the tail kit is a bit low, BTW. I ordered extras and still feel I
> don't have enough). I'm guessing that if I re-drill these I'll get
> oversize, oval, holes in the tail skin.
>
> Thanks,
> Ron
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
while absolutely true, anyone who has spent their life building sheet metal aircraft
will tell you the only cleco that does no good is the one in the hole you
are working at that exact time. You absolutely cannot have too many clecos -
and they never depreciate - they always are sell able.
do not archive
When you are not actually working on a particular are (and even sometimes when
you are) you don't need to keep a cleco in every hole.
challgren(at)mac.com wrote:
> On May 28, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Ronald Steele wrote:
>
>
> >
> > . (I think the number of suggested clecos to order with the tail
> > kit is a bit low, BTW. I ordered extras and still feel I don't
> > have enough).
> > Ronald:
> >
>
>
> I have 450 clecos at present and still run short on my 701 project as
> rudder, horizontal stabilizer, wings require clecos even as the rear
> fuselage takes a huge number until riveting can begin.
>
> Stan
> N701VG
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115214#115214
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
Message 8
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| Subject: | xl engine choice |
i was woundering if you could use the 80hp rotax for the xl group A
i have a chance to purchase this engine but will it affect the aircraft not to
botherd about top speed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115224#115224
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601XL project for sale |
I have been offered the opportunity to join a long-time friend in a joint project.
We will be building a Jabiru powered XL from a kit. By going this route everything
will essentially be half price.
Therefore, I am selling my plans built project for a really good price. I'm even
including many of my tools including my air compressor and rivet gun. This will
be a great chance for the would be scratch builder to get a head start. Please
email me for details.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
dclaytx2@hotmail.com
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115225#115225
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
Hi Mike,
I don't know of anyone who has installed an 80 hp engine in an Xl,
but the drawings call for that as the minimum engine for the plane.
Using such a small engine will impact a lot more than just the top
speed. It will seriously limit the climb rate and increase the
takeoff distance.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 11:56 AM 5/28/2007, you wrote:
>
>i was woundering if you could use the 80hp rotax for the xl group A
>i have a chance to purchase this engine but will it affect the
>aircraft not to botherd about top speed
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
Hi flyingmike9;
Having spent quite a bit of time in the same vein before capitulating to Corvair,
I would think it would be plenty of power - you will of course have to prop
for maximum thrust at climb and take the hit at cruise. You would not have the
same climb as 100 HP even so but it should be more than adequate.
i was woundering if you could use the 80hp rotax for the xl group A
i have a chance to purchase this engine but will it affect the aircraft not to
botherd about top speed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115224#115224
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
When I was up at the Zenith factory, I asked if I could run an areovee or other
80ish horsepower engine in the XL... I was told that I would be very unhappy
with the airplane.
They didn't say I could not do it, just like Paul points out, it will fly with
an 80 horse, but the margin of error is going to be slim at best. I would not
want to be anywhere near short, or have to do a go around at the last second.
Jon Burns
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115230#115230
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
cheers guys
i think i will stick to the 100 horses it was a good deal on the 80 hp
not to worry will have to wait until one comes up in uk at a good price as i cant
get one from USA because of the araes that they sell too, still a good exchange
rate uk prices are to high
any way thanks again
mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115237#115237
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
In a message dated 5/28/2007 10:42:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
rsteele@rjsit.com writes:
I'm working on the rudder kit and have a couple of mistakes that I've
no idea how to fix.
While installing the nose skin, I drilled a hole in the wrong place
while trying to attach the skin to the nose rib. So I have a big
ugly rivet hole just above where the proper rivet line falls.
I also have 2 or 3 holes that don't line up properly with the tail
skin/main rudder spar.
--------
If it comes to needing to replace skins/spars and so on,, remember that there
are a LOT of rudders out there, thanks to the rudder workshops. Someone might
be willing to part with a lonesome rudder for a good cause. Never hurts to
ask.
Happy Building
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
I am just starting on my 701 and have plenty of time before choosing
an engine. But I know the engine I am waiting for, it is a single
rotor rotary engine based on the Mazda two rotor automobile engine
many of which are flying successfully at this time. The single rotor
promises around 110-120 hp at 180 lbs firewall forward. One is
running on a test stand. A lot of work remains to be done. It is
worth waiting for. The stardard rotary conversion is too heavy and
too powerful for any Zenith aircraft but the single rotor with
aluminum end housings is a perfect fit. Jerry
On May 28, 2007, at 4:26 PM, flyingmike9 wrote:
>
> cheers guys
> i think i will stick to the 100 horses it was a good deal on the
> 80 hp
> not to worry will have to wait until one comes up in uk at a good
> price as i cant get one from USA because of the araes that they
> sell too, still a good exchange rate uk prices are to high
>
> any way thanks again
>
> mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115237#115237
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
last time it came up blank?
David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 12:48:07 -0700
(PDT)
From: David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: xl engine choice
Hi flyingmike9;
Having spent quite a bit of time in the same vein before capitulating to Corvair,
I would think it would be plenty of power - you will of course have to prop
for maximum thrust at climb and take the hit at cruise. You would not have the
same climb as 100 HP even so but it should be more than adequate.
i was woundering if you could use the 80hp rotax for the xl group A
i have a chance to purchase this engine but will it affect the aircraft not to
botherd about top speed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115224#115224
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
Ron,
Welcome to the fun of building your own airplane. You've picked a great company
(Zenith) with one of the best lists around to support you.
Option 1: The idea of buying someone else's rudder, while not a bad one considering
how many are just collecting dust, doesn't do much for your education. If
you don't work through these issues on your rudder, you will likely find yourself
repeating the same kind of mistakes on your horizontal stabilizer. Use
this as a great learning opportunity and invest some time (and money) into your
education as a craftsman.
Option 2: If there is any way you can attend a Rudder Workshop, I would advise
it. You're going to spend a fair amount of money just replacing parts, so why
not start from scratch under the watchful eye of the good folks at Zenith. I'm
sure you would see your confidence soar.
Option 3: If that doesn't work for you, I would encourage you to watch "Metal Working 101 with Rudder Workshop" from www.homebuilthelp.com. It's a lot cheaper than traveling to Mexico, MO or Cloverdale, CA and you can benefit from some excellent instruction in the privacy of your home. Then when the replacement parts arrrive, you'll feel better prepared to tackle the job.
Option 4: Build your rudder (or at least the replacement parts) from scratch. You have everything you need on the plans you received, and for a very few dollars you can buy the sheet aluminum and make your own parts. If you decide to go this route (which I have), I would suggest that you watch and re-watch "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft," also from www.homebuilthelp.com. You might be amazed how easy it is, once the guys from Can-Zac have taken all the mystery out of scratch-building.
Whatever your choice, know that you will never regret the time you spend educating
yourself and remaking each part until you can be absolutely convinced of its
airworthiness. That is time well spent.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Control surfaces and wing spars complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115255#115255
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
Ron-
I second the HH recommendation.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:38 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help
>
> Ron,
>
> Welcome to the fun of building your own airplane. You've picked a great
> company (Zenith) with one of the best lists around to support you.
>
> Option 1: The idea of buying someone else's rudder, while not a bad one
> considering how many are just collecting dust, doesn't do much for your
> education. If you don't work through these issues on your rudder, you
> will likely find yourself repeating the same kind of mistakes on your
> horizontal stabilizer. Use this as a great learning opportunity and
> invest some time (and money) into your education as a craftsman.
>
> Option 2: If there is any way you can attend a Rudder Workshop, I would
> advise it. You're going to spend a fair amount of money just replacing
> parts, so why not start from scratch under the watchful eye of the good
> folks at Zenith. I'm sure you would see your confidence soar.
>
> Option 3: If that doesn't work for you, I would encourage you to watch
> "Metal Working 101 with Rudder Workshop" from www.homebuilthelp.com. It's
> a lot cheaper than traveling to Mexico, MO or Cloverdale, CA and you can
> benefit from some excellent instruction in the privacy of your home. Then
> when the replacement parts arrrive, you'll feel better prepared to tackle
> the job.
>
> Option 4: Build your rudder (or at least the replacement parts) from
> scratch. You have everything you need on the plans you received, and for
> a very few dollars you can buy the sheet aluminum and make your own parts.
> If you decide to go this route (which I have), I would suggest that you
> watch and re-watch "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft," also from
> www.homebuilthelp.com. You might be amazed how easy it is, once the guys
> from Can-Zac have taken all the mystery out of scratch-building.
>
> Whatever your choice, know that you will never regret the time you spend
> educating yourself and remaking each part until you can be absolutely
> convinced of its airworthiness. That is time well spent.
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> 601XL #6493 from scratch
> Control surfaces and wing spars complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115255#115255
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: xl engine choice |
Jerry.
I looked into the rotary about 4 years ago, found one ready to go, tested on the
stand for a lot of hours. But the weight was about 225. Must not of had the
aluminum end housings.
There was a article in Sport Pilot a few months ago on three RVs, one of which
had a rotary in it. I remember that the fuel burn was about 15% more than any
thing else with the same HP.
I would be real interested in what you come up with.
Mark S.
701/912ULS
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 2:02:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: xl engine choice
I am just starting on my 701 and have plenty of time before choosing
an engine. But I know the engine I am waiting for, it is a single
rotor rotary engine based on the Mazda two rotor automobile engine
many of which are flying successfully at this time. The single rotor
promises around 110-120 hp at 180 lbs firewall forward. One is
running on a test stand. A lot of work remains to be done. It is
worth waiting for. The stardard rotary conversion is too heavy and
too powerful for any Zenith aircraft but the single rotor with
aluminum end housings is a perfect fit. Jerry
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
Thanks to all who responded. What a great group.
Sigh, sounds like my best bet is to just start over. The DVDs sound
like a good idea too. While I'm quite comfortable with the
engineering issues, this is the first time I've ever worked with
sheet metal or used a cleco. I have to admit I'm not all that
comfortable with the build quality of the rest of rudder either so a
new kit is probably in order. I definitely want to have confidence
in what I'm building!
As far as fabricating parts, I feel like it would just take to
long. While I do enjoy this sort of work, and I find the process
fascinating, the point is to have a plane to fly. I'm in my 50's
and a student pilot - and I absolutely love flying. Another couple
of years of build time for fabrication sounds like forever right
now. I may invest in some aluminum stock anyway just to see how it
goes.
So, anybody have a rudder kit laying around they would like to
offload :-)?
Ron
On May 28, 2007, at 6:38 PM, lwinger wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Welcome to the fun of building your own airplane. You've picked a
> great company (Zenith) with one of the best lists around to support
> you.
>
> Option 1: The idea of buying someone else's rudder, while not a bad
> one considering how many are just collecting dust, doesn't do much
> for your education. If you don't work through these issues on your
> rudder, you will likely find yourself repeating the same kind of
> mistakes on your horizontal stabilizer. Use this as a great
> learning opportunity and invest some time (and money) into your
> education as a craftsman.
>
> Option 2: If there is any way you can attend a Rudder Workshop, I
> would advise it. You're going to spend a fair amount of money just
> replacing parts, so why not start from scratch under the watchful
> eye of the good folks at Zenith. I'm sure you would see your
> confidence soar.
>
> Option 3: If that doesn't work for you, I would encourage you to
> watch "Metal Working 101 with Rudder Workshop" from
> www.homebuilthelp.com. It's a lot cheaper than traveling to
> Mexico, MO or Cloverdale, CA and you can benefit from some
> excellent instruction in the privacy of your home. Then when the
> replacement parts arrrive, you'll feel better prepared to tackle
> the job.
>
> Option 4: Build your rudder (or at least the replacement parts)
> from scratch. You have everything you need on the plans you
> received, and for a very few dollars you can buy the sheet aluminum
> and make your own parts. If you decide to go this route (which I
> have), I would suggest that you watch and re-watch "Scratch
> Building Basics for Metal Aircraft," also from
> www.homebuilthelp.com. You might be amazed how easy it is, once
> the guys from Can-Zac have taken all the mystery out of scratch-
> building.
>
> Whatever your choice, know that you will never regret the time you
> spend educating yourself and remaking each part until you can be
> absolutely convinced of its airworthiness. That is time well spent.
>
> --------
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> 601XL #6493 from scratch
> Control surfaces and wing spars complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115255#115255
>
>
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| Subject: | Scratch building the wing spar |
My project has been on hold for a while. I shifted gears after I finished the
tail kit and decided to start scratch building from hear on. I have a lot of
parts cut out but I havent popped a rivet in about a year. Of course the spar
is complete when you purchase a kit so the standard instructions dont have any
information on the assembly process. Is there a resource out there about scratch
building the wing spar?
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115276#115276
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| Subject: | Scratch building the wing spar |
> Is there a resource out there about scratch building the wing spar?
Here is part of it:
www.ch601.org/resources/spar_cap/spar_cap_drilling.htm
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes |
Hi Larry:
I am a registered builder but I cannot find the updated
Constructions document you mentioned. Do you know the specific page it is located
on?
Thanks, John
do not archive
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
Ron-
Invest in the DVDs and the materials to make a new one. It will work out
to about the same cost as a new rudder kit and take just a hair longer.
Fact of life- you're going to have to make some components on your own
sooner or later. Might as well get the confidence and satisfaction of doing
it from scratch early on. My best advice is to remove your clocks and ignore
your checkbook register.
By the way- I'm building from a kit, in my 50's, and hope to finish my
project while I can still pass a medical. Of course, Sport Pilot is plan B.
As far as a plane to fly, rent.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Steele" <rsteele@rjsit.com>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help
>
> Thanks to all who responded. What a great group.
>
> Sigh, sounds like my best bet is to just start over. The DVDs sound like
> a good idea too. While I'm quite comfortable with the engineering
> issues, this is the first time I've ever worked with sheet metal or used
> a cleco. I have to admit I'm not all that comfortable with the build
> quality of the rest of rudder either so a new kit is probably in order.
> I definitely want to have confidence in what I'm building!
>
> As far as fabricating parts, I feel like it would just take to long.
> While I do enjoy this sort of work, and I find the process fascinating,
> the point is to have a plane to fly. I'm in my 50's and a student
> pilot - and I absolutely love flying. Another couple of years of build
> time for fabrication sounds like forever right now. I may invest in some
> aluminum stock anyway just to see how it goes.
>
> So, anybody have a rudder kit laying around they would like to offload
> :-)?
>
> Ron
>
> On May 28, 2007, at 6:38 PM, lwinger wrote:
>
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Welcome to the fun of building your own airplane. You've picked a great
>> company (Zenith) with one of the best lists around to support you.
>>
>> Option 1: The idea of buying someone else's rudder, while not a bad one
>> considering how many are just collecting dust, doesn't do much for your
>> education. If you don't work through these issues on your rudder, you
>> will likely find yourself repeating the same kind of mistakes on your
>> horizontal stabilizer. Use this as a great learning opportunity and
>> invest some time (and money) into your education as a craftsman.
>>
>> Option 2: If there is any way you can attend a Rudder Workshop, I would
>> advise it. You're going to spend a fair amount of money just replacing
>> parts, so why not start from scratch under the watchful eye of the good
>> folks at Zenith. I'm sure you would see your confidence soar.
>>
>> Option 3: If that doesn't work for you, I would encourage you to watch
>> "Metal Working 101 with Rudder Workshop" from www.homebuilthelp.com.
>> It's a lot cheaper than traveling to Mexico, MO or Cloverdale, CA and
>> you can benefit from some excellent instruction in the privacy of your
>> home. Then when the replacement parts arrrive, you'll feel better
>> prepared to tackle the job.
>>
>> Option 4: Build your rudder (or at least the replacement parts) from
>> scratch. You have everything you need on the plans you received, and
>> for a very few dollars you can buy the sheet aluminum and make your own
>> parts. If you decide to go this route (which I have), I would suggest
>> that you watch and re-watch "Scratch Building Basics for Metal
>> Aircraft," also from www.homebuilthelp.com. You might be amazed how
>> easy it is, once the guys from Can-Zac have taken all the mystery out of
>> scratch- building.
>>
>> Whatever your choice, know that you will never regret the time you spend
>> educating yourself and remaking each part until you can be absolutely
>> convinced of its airworthiness. That is time well spent.
>>
>> --------
>> Larry Winger
>> Tustin, CA
>> 601XL #6493 from scratch
>> Control surfaces and wing spars complete
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115255#115255
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
John-
Tons of it. Check out Larry MacFarland's site, 601.org, Scott
Mc'Laughlin's, the list goes on. Easiest thing to do is search "spar
construction" in the archives and crossreference the poster's sites.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhines" <johnrhines@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building the wing spar
>
> My project has been on hold for a while. I shifted gears after I finished
> the tail kit and decided to start scratch building from hear on. I have a
> lot of parts cut out but I haven?Tt popped a rivet in about a year. Of
> course the spar is complete when you purchase a kit so the standard
> instructions don?Tt have any information on the assembly process. Is
> there a resource out there about scratch building the wing spar?
>
> --------
> John Hines
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115276#115276
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
Well, I don't see much about actual spar construction on 601.org. And Scott McLaughlin's
site says a guy named Jason Isley made his spars. There is nothing
about actually building the spar on there, (unless I am blind).
John
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115290#115290
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| Subject: | Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes |
John,
I had a hard time finding it too. It is at
http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%2
01-07.pdf (change the %20 to spaces) or
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-manuals.html
These URLs are in the builders' section. It is called just plane "CS" for
Construction Standards in the list of Assembly Manuals.
Jeff
Do not archive this either ..
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JohnDRead@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light
Airplanes
Hi Larry:
I am a registered builder but I cannot find the updated
Constructions document you mentioned. Do you know the specific page it is
located on?
Thanks, John
do not archive
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes |
Log into the Builders area, click on the 601XL link, click on the Updated Photo
Assembly Guide link, and you'll find the Construction Manual near the top.
Hope this helps.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Control surfaces and wing spars complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115301#115301
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| Subject: | Re: Noob errors on rudder kit - need help |
It would be useful to see a pix of your errors. If you have a hole in the wrong
place you can often just fill it with a rivet. If your holes do not match up
quite perfectly drill them out with a #20 drill bit and install an A5 rivet.
Accept the fact that you are going to make mistakes and that in most cases they
can be repaired in a very satisfactory manner. If your goal is to make a "perfect"
plane you can give it up right now. Feel free to contact me off list
if you have other questions.
Tim
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115302#115302
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
Between 9-20-2006 and 11/24/2006 I scratch built wing and center spars and logged
all the activity at my kit log with text and pictures. Have a look and see
if it helps.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115306#115306
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
Ron,
Great detail! I will start studying.
Thanks,
John
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115312#115312
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
John,
Having just completed my wing spars today, your question is timely. I was planning
on writing out a few tips for those who follow, so here goes.
Download and read the new Construction Manual (found in builders area of Zenithair.com
under Zodiac XL, Photo Assembly Guide Updates near the top of the
list).
If you are using an Olfa knife for cutting your webs, be sure to score them
plenty of times because of the .040 thickness. Anything less than 20 to 25 times,
and I ended up with a ruined web.
Edge dressing was a breeze with a Vixen file (http://www.ch601.org/tools/) and 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I kept checking it with digital calipers from Harbor Freight to hold close to the 212mm width. Per the Construction Manual (CS #304) this is a critical dimension.
Bend your 20mm outboard flange before tapering the opposite end or marking
your hole pattern.
Use matched-hole drilling wherever possible. Randy Bryant does a good job of describing that at http://www.n344rb.com/ under Wing Spars on his 5/4/2006 entries.
Step drilling makes all the difference on the quality of your solid rivet holes.
Pre-drill everything to #40 first.
Another Randy Bryant tip involves spot-drilling your spar caps. Put them in
position under the web and barely drill through the appropriate #40 holes to
mark the caps. This makes final drilling super simple (because it is self-centering)
and extremely precise.
Youll need to set up your drill press either in the middle of your table (http://www.ch601.org/resources/spar_cap/spar_cap_drilling.htm) or along the edge (http://www.mykitlog.com/lwinger) entry for 2/25/2007. This insures straight rivet holes through up to four layers of aluminum without introducing bowing.
Dave Clays bending brake is great for making the spar cap angles and miscellaneous smaller parts. http://www.daves601xl.com/Tools/tools.html
When bending the angles, make your blank wider than the developed length to
give the brake something to grip. I used 100mm. On longer pieces, I even drilled
out the material under each bolt hole to grip the entire length without
bowing.
Use your bending brake to make the hat stiffeners. See my entries for 3/9/2007.
Think through your drilling process carefully. I devised a 4-step process
that worked perfectly for me (3/17/2007 entry).
Step drill your bolt hole for the AN-4-10 bolt, working up to a D bit, followed
by a hand reamer.
When you are ready to rivet, immobilize all open rivet holes. The AN-470-AD-5
rivet holes can be held together with the black clecoes. The AN-470-AD-6
rivet holes are too big for clecoes, so I went with AN3-10 bolts (using a washer
on both sides). This made the stack very rigid for final riveting.
Riveting has its own rules. Ill make another cheat sheet on that in the future.
Disclaimer: I realize there are a number of ways to make your spars. These are
just the ways that worked for me.
For more details, you can look at my site (http://mykitlog.com/lwinger) between 2/17/2007 and 5/28/2007. Good luck and feel free to email me off-list if you have follow-up questions.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL #6493 from scratch
Control surfaces and wing spars complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115319#115319
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| Subject: | Re: ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS |
Marcelo Matocq
It was a GREAT trip... was Marcelo Matocq: From Argentina to S&F then to OSH
with a used Flightstar ultralight with a rebuilt 2 cycle 582 Rotax engine...
He flew over the Amazon jungle and over the caribean islands (where he used the
inflated condoms and a pick up inner tube around his waist with a fire stinguisher
as a inflating device (if needed). Lucky he didnt need it,)
This is the page, use Altavista to translate to english...
http://www.hangar57.com/ValeLaPenaRecordar.htm
Yes, he is my hero...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico
Saludos
Jeff Small <zodiacjeff@msn.com> wrote: (snip)
Jim did recount the story of the very, very prepared ultralight flier who flew
to OSH a few years later and, because he had to cross a few sizable lakes,
filled the zippered compartments of his craft with inflated condoms - hundreds
of them.
do not archive
jeff
---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building the wing spar |
Hey John,
Herb Heaton has some great photos posted here:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/HeatonHE@aol.com.05.07.2006/
Being able to visualize Herb's spar construction really helped me.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115327#115327
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| Subject: | ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS |
Marcelo Matocq
What about these guys? Over Greenland (and then some) on trikes!
www.trike-expeditions.com/
-- Craig
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| Subject: | ping pong balls, expanding foam, shrinking memory WAS |
Marcelo Matocq
Here is Google's (poor) translation:
http://tinyurl.com/ynwfcf
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hangar57.com%2FVale
LaPenaRecordar.htm
<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hangar57.com%2FVal
eLaPenaRecordar.htm&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguag
e_tools> &langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
-- Craig
Message 37
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| Subject: | Electrical System |
I'm stumped and can't seem to move past the electrical phase of my 601XL Jab3300
project, and have grown tired of staring blankly at the firewall. I already
bought the following components, and really just need a diagram to show how these
particluar devices should be wired together:
Key Ignition switch (the kid that has L-R-BOTH mag positions)
Cessna-style split master switch
Standard starter solenoid (provided by Jabiru)
Regulator (provided by Jabiru)
Everything else I can figure out (and mostly have completed) but this main section
of the electrical system has me at a roadblock. There are lots of terminals
on the back of these particular devices -- some connections are obvious, others
not. I've already read Bingelis' book, I perused Bob Nichols web site, studied
the diagrams provided by Zenith & Jabiru. However, I couldn't find anything
that uses the exact items above to see how they are all interconnected. I'm
not interested in becoming an electrical engineer -- I just want to know how
to hook this stuff up! So, before I give up and sell the whole darn project,
thought I'd take a stab to see if anyone out there coincidentally used the same
components as I am and maybe could share a schematic. Thanks,
Mike F.
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