Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:32 AM - When to rivet rear fuselage (chris Sinfield)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Short pieces (Zed Smith)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces (Jerry Hey)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: When to rivet rear fuselage (Michael Valentine)
5. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces (Bill Naumuk)
6. 06:17 AM - Re: When to rivet rear fuselage (DaveG601XL)
7. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces (Bill Naumuk)
8. 06:38 AM - Re: chrome nose strut (Bill Naumuk)
9. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources (Jeff)
10. 06:45 AM - Re: When to rivet rear fuselage (Bill Naumuk)
11. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources (Bill Naumuk)
12. 07:51 AM - Re: Short pieces (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
13. 08:17 AM - Re: Short pieces (Dave Austin)
14. 08:18 AM - Re: When to rivet rear fuselage (Edward Moody II)
15. 08:29 AM - Dual stick option for 601HD? (ray)
16. 08:47 AM - Re: Short pieces (Bill Naumuk)
17. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources (Kevin L. Rupert)
18. 09:02 AM - Re: Dual stick option for 601HD? (Gary Boothe)
19. 09:08 AM - Re: Short pieces (Bill Naumuk)
20. 09:11 AM - Re: Dual stick option for 601HD? (Bill Naumuk)
21. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: When to rivet rear fuselage (Gary Ray)
22. 11:48 AM - Gascolator install (flyingmike9)
23. 02:40 PM - Re: Gascolator install (Clive Richards)
24. 02:51 PM - Re: Gascolator install (flyingmike9)
25. 03:03 PM - Re: Short pieces (Dave Austin)
26. 06:17 PM - Re: Gascolator install (RURUNY@aol.com)
27. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator install (Saad Mahaini)
28. 10:32 PM - Re: Short pieces (Bill Naumuk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | When to rivet rear fuselage |
We are up to 6-B-11B fuselage assembly which talks about taking the fuselage assembly
off the bench and on to stands, to make it easier to work on.
My question is at what stage do you rivet the rear fuselage. The picture guides
show that some pictures are riveted and some are still clecos.
I am thinking that I would want all the aft area tight and locked in with rivets
before I took it off the bench??
over to you fellow builders..
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116026#116026
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Bill, and all....
Great idea. Sadly, I too have paid more in shipping charges than the part cost.
Enough, already!!
Bill, I'm not at the hangar to look in the scrap pile, but will look late in the
day.
Maybe others will pop up with the exact piece.
Anyway, thanks for getting this thread started. I never understood why the vendors
insist on using a parcel service when ( in the US at least) the postal system
costs so much less.
Regards to all,
Zed
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Simple, using a parcel service costs them nothing and is convenient.
One hundred per cent of the cost is passed on to us. Jerry
On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Zed Smith wrote:
>
> Bill, and all....
>
> Great idea. Sadly, I too have paid more in shipping charges than
> the part cost.
>
> Enough, already!!
>
> Bill, I'm not at the hangar to look in the scrap pile, but will
> look late in the day.
>
> Maybe others will pop up with the exact piece.
>
> Anyway, thanks for getting this thread started. I never
> understood why the vendors insist on using a parcel service when
> ( in the US at least) the postal system costs so much less.
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet rear fuselage |
Chris - I am pretty much at the same point. I riveted the rear fuse (except
the front of the longerons and the most forward two L-stiffeners) before I
moved on to the firewall. So, at the same stage you are at, I have a
riveted rear fuse, a riveted firewall, and an unriveted cabin floor.
Unfortunately, because we are at the same stage I can't tell you if this
will be a problem later! I will note that my version of the guide said to
rivet the rear fuse and other builders have told me they pretty much riveted
when they ran out of clecoes.
Michael in NH
do not archive
On 6/2/07, chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>
> We are up to 6-B-11B fuselage assembly which talks about taking the
> fuselage assembly off the bench and on to stands, to make it easier to work
> on.
>
> My question is at what stage do you rivet the rear fuselage. The picture
> guides show that some pictures are riveted and some are still clecos.
>
> I am thinking that I would want all the aft area tight and locked in with
> rivets before I took it off the bench??
>
> over to you fellow builders..
> Chris..
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116026#116026
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Zed-
Thanks for the offer, I already have a piece of T6 angle on the way.
Guess it doesn't hurt to ask, does it?!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:21 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Short pieces
>
> Bill, and all....
>
> Great idea. Sadly, I too have paid more in shipping charges than the part
> cost.
>
> Enough, already!!
>
> Bill, I'm not at the hangar to look in the scrap pile, but will look late
> in the day.
>
> Maybe others will pop up with the exact piece.
>
> Anyway, thanks for getting this thread started. I never understood why
> the vendors insist on using a parcel service when ( in the US at least)
> the postal system costs so much less.
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet rear fuselage |
Go ahead and rivet except for anything on the upper longeron, the Z-angle on the
forward end of the access hole (due to the step fairing) and the two most forward
vertical L-angles (due to the baggage deck and step fairing). You will
need to free up cleco's because the rest of the fuselage will get almost all the
way built-up before you can think about riveting it.
Good luck!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
working on fueslage.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116036#116036
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Jerry-
Well, they have to make a living, too. Plus, USPS is only cheaper for
the little stuff. Get past about 2'x3' and UPS is 3 times less expensive.
Bottom line is, one builder's scrap is another's raw material. I'd much
rather swap with another builder than sell to the junkyard at five cents on
the dollar (Or less).
In our area, aluminum cans bring $.65/lb but T6 scraps only $.38/lb!
Why? The government subsidizes can recycling because it keeps litter off the
side of the road.
The logical economic solution would be to throw your scraps on the side
of the road to increase their value. But then again, "Logical Government" is
an oxymoron.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <jerryhey@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Short pieces
>
> Simple, using a parcel service costs them nothing and is convenient. One
> hundred per cent of the cost is passed on to us. Jerry
>
> On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Zed Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> Bill, and all....
>>
>> Great idea. Sadly, I too have paid more in shipping charges than the
>> part cost.
>>
>> Enough, already!!
>>
>> Bill, I'm not at the hangar to look in the scrap pile, but will look
>> late in the day.
>>
>> Maybe others will pop up with the exact piece.
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for getting this thread started. I never understood why
>> the vendors insist on using a parcel service when ( in the US at least)
>> the postal system costs so much less.
>>
>> Regards to all,
>>
>> Zed
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: chrome nose strut |
At least I think it was a builder mod to begin with.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: chrome nose strut
>
> All-
> I was over to Lynn Dingfelder's last week to pick up my Corvair core
> and noticed a Delrin top nose strut bearing on his enviable XL project. I
> said "Oh, I see where you used Mac's bearings." Turns out the material
> came with his kit. Can't ask for a better endorsement of what was
> originally a builder mod than that!
> do not archive
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: chrome nose strut
>
>
>>
>> Chris,
>> You'd be better putting nylon bearings around the strut. This would make
>> it quieter, wear indefinitely and yes,
>> avoid hydrogen embrittlment, which in this case would not factor stress
>> wise unless you did it where the plate
>> and strut are welded together. Chrome is not a good dollar value here.
>> Go with nylon, delrin plastics
>> as available and you'll be much happier. Some have powder-coated struts
>> too with less than satisfactory results.
>> http://k-mac-plastics.net/index.htm
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/upbrg.gif
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/stratstops.gif
>>
>> Larry McFarland
>>
>> chris Sinfield wrote:
>>> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>>>
>>> Hi All
>>> I was going to chrome the nose strut areas where the strut slides
>>> through the blocks untill the electroplaters gave me some advise.
>>>
>>> They said that the areas would not hold up to the stress of a nose gear
>>> strut due to hydrogen embrittlment. Hydrogen embrittlment will cause
>>> cracking unless it is removed ( very expensive treatment) is that
>>> correct?
>>> Have others chromed their nose gear strut?
>>>
>>> Chris.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources |
Bill,
Check out this URL:
http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleDillsburgAero.html
About Dillsburg Aero. You may have the supplier for ACS, Wicks and others
right in your backyard. You just need to know exactly what you want.
Dillsburg does not advertise. You may be able to drive over and get what
you want the same day. Since it is a word of mouth business, I can't say
what Charlie's status is today, but it is worth finding out. All that
inventory would take a decade to move out.
Jeff Davidson
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet rear fuselage |
Chris-
When I was at Brampford a couple of weeks ago, there was a guy (I
believe his name was Mike) who built his entire plane in clecos in the
basement, tore everything apart to get it out, then riveted. Guess you can
theoretically wait forever.
Best compromise I've heard of is to put in just enough rivets to
stabilize the individual parts. If you know you're going to have to take
them out later on, put them in upside down for easy identification.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: When to rivet rear fuselage
> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>
> We are up to 6-B-11B fuselage assembly which talks about taking the
> fuselage assembly off the bench and on to stands, to make it easier to
> work on.
>
> My question is at what stage do you rivet the rear fuselage. The picture
> guides show that some pictures are riveted and some are still clecos.
>
> I am thinking that I would want all the aft area tight and locked in with
> rivets before I took it off the bench??
>
> over to you fellow builders..
> Chris..
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116026#116026
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources |
Jeff-
Unfortunately, York is a good 4-5 hour drive away. For those of you in
Northwest Pennsylvania, (Northeast Ohio, Southwest N.Y.) I have been able to
get some oddball stuff from the Warren Co., just a few blocks away from
where I work in Erie.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources
> <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>
> Bill,
> Check out this URL:
> http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleDillsburgAero.html
> About Dillsburg Aero. You may have the supplier for ACS, Wicks and others
> right in your backyard. You just need to know exactly what you want.
> Dillsburg does not advertise. You may be able to drive over and get what
> you want the same day. Since it is a word of mouth business, I can't say
> what Charlie's status is today, but it is worth finding out. All that
> inventory would take a decade to move out.
>
> Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Bill if you haven't found a piece of .090 send me your mail address and I
will send you a piece. Jerry e-mail: jeyoung65@aol.com
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Great idea, but could all be sure to include "do not archive" to avoid
contamination.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet rear fuselage |
Also, if you have a squeezer and dimple dies, set 4 - 6 flush-set A4
tack rivets on each side to hold the rear side skins to the top
longerons. It really helps keep things trued up the way they were when
rivetted.
Dred
Message 15
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| Subject: | Dual stick option for 601HD? |
Can the dual stick option for the 601XL be adapted
to the 601HD?
Thank You!
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Jerry-
Got the material covered. Thanks for the offer.
Everyone else-
I don't think there are any of us builders out there on welfare, but
there's no reason to be ashamed to swap for another builder's scrap. As
I say, one man's scrap is the material the next guy needs.
If we weren't practical to a degree, we'd all be flying A-36
Bonanzas! A guy at our local field has one, and Donald Trump's 727 has
to have a lower seat/mile expense ratio!!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Short pieces
Bill if you haven't found a piece of .090 send me your mail address
and I will send you a piece. Jerry e-mail: jeyoung65@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's free at AOL.com.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces - Supply Sources |
Jeff,
I just spoke with Charlie at Dillsburg last week and he said he was
getting out of the airplane business. Not enough turnover to make it
profitable any more is what he told me. I was after aluminum and he
didn't handle it anymore. He's not restocking when he sells out of an item.
Kevin R.
601XL
Lewistown, PA
Message 18
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| Subject: | Dual stick option for 601HD? |
Yes. Also check out: http://www.ch601.org/ for a slightly more simple
design.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Can the dual stick option for the 601XL be adapted
to the 601HD?
Thank You!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Dave-
Check late posts- we're working on it.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Austin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Short pieces
Great idea, but could all be sure to include "do not archive" to avoid
contamination.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Dual stick option for 601HD? |
Ray-
Check the HD/HDS builder info pages on the Zenith website-
everything's available there.
If you get lost, I have a hardcopy I could scan and send to you.
If you've ever seen the "Extra" room in the cockpit, you'll go with
the stock stick!
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: ray
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Dual stick option for 601HD?
Can the dual stick option for the 601XL be adapted
to the 601HD?
Thank You!
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet rear fuselage |
I riveted my 601 XL basically from both ends towards the center and from
the bottom up. Leaving the turtle deck and the side skin overlap for last
without any problems.
My front top skin is removable nutplated #8 w countersunk machine screw
heads. This is a huge advantage during the wiring and troubleshooting phase
later.
Gary Ray
Message 22
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| Subject: | Gascolator install |
started to install fuel system today and came across a small hitch
i am buildig in the UK with the czw kit
they have supplied a gascolator which is a weldment of aluminum box
it has a flange on the top and bottom.
my problem is that the drawing does not show what to fix it with
ie riviets or bolts what have you guys out there done if using the same kit or
what would you recommend to fit it to the firewall only drilled line up holes
at the momment
cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116072#116072
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator install |
Mike
I would check with your inspector but the PFA will not accept the
ZAC Gascolator if it is the original ZAC Design ie an aluminium box with
Just holes for the fuel pipes & drain tap you can use it as a water trap but
must fit an aircraft gascolator with a filter incorporated.
Clive
Rays 601HD G-CBDG 120 Hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyingmike9" <mlloyd9@csi.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolator install
>
> started to install fuel system today and came across a small hitch
> i am buildig in the UK with the czw kit
> they have supplied a gascolator which is a weldment of aluminum box
> it has a flange on the top and bottom.
>
> my problem is that the drawing does not show what to fix it with
>
> ie riviets or bolts what have you guys out there done if using the same
> kit or what would you recommend to fit it to the firewall only drilled
> line up holes at the momment
>
> cheers
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116072#116072
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator install |
do you think the PFA will allow the adair gascolator
i not that impressed with the alluminum box that coms from zac
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116087#116087
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Great, Bill. Good to put a face to a familiar submitter!
Do not archive
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator install |
Attached is a pic I took of a CZEC built 701 at Oshkosh 2004. Looks like 3
A5 rivets holding it on.
I did not get one of these with my 701 firewall fwd kit.
So.....
Here is what I did with an ACS gascolator. Scroll down 3 pics.
_http://www.701builder.com/engine15.htm_
(http://www.701builder.com/engine15.htm)
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
_www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator install |
Man.You are an artist.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RURUNY@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Gascolator install
Attached is a pic I took of a CZEC built 701 at Oshkosh 2004. Looks like
3
A5 rivets holding it on.
I did not get one of these with my 701 firewall fwd kit.
So.....
Here is what I did with an ACS gascolator. Scroll down 3 pics.
http://www.701builder.com/engine15.htm
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
www.701builder.com
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Short pieces |
Dave-
Are you the guy with the white HDS? If so, forgive me for thinking
your name was Mike. I was wiped out floundering around the QEW an extra
100K missing the exit just after the Peace Bridge!
Also, aren't Spitfires supposed to be camo green with roundels?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Austin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Short pieces
Great, Bill. Good to put a face to a familiar submitter!
Do not archive
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
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