Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:01 AM - Re: transponders (alex_01)
2. 02:14 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Bryan Martin)
3. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Horz Stabilizer (RClaggf4u@aol.com)
4. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Ken Lilja)
5. 05:45 AM - 701 cover (Tommy Walker)
6. 06:14 AM - Swinging the compass (John Bolding)
7. 06:30 AM - Re: 701 cover (Ben52425@aol.com)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Is this XL firewall drawing wrong? (ken smith)
9. 07:17 AM - Stainjless Steel Rivets (Kevin L. Rupert)
10. 10:41 AM - Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (charles.long@gm.com)
11. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Juan Vega)
12. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) ()
13. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
14. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (robert stone)
15. 12:08 PM - Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Mitch Hodges)
16. 12:24 PM - Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson)
17. 12:59 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
18. 01:06 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Gig Giacona)
19. 02:37 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned ()
20. 03:41 PM - Re: Swinging the compass (Klaus Truemper)
21. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Juan Vega)
22. 04:53 PM - Re: 701 cover (Gary Boothe)
23. 05:04 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections)
24. 05:34 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Bryan Martin)
25. 05:37 PM - Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson)
26. 05:39 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
27. 05:43 PM - Re: 701 cover (Tommy Walker)
28. 06:03 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Dave Austin)
29. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson)
30. 06:32 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections)
31. 07:05 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections)
32. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Swinging the compass (Tim Shankland)
33. 07:46 PM - Re: Corvair folk: new posting on William Wynne's web site (Falcon)
34. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: Swinging the compass (Craig Payne)
35. 09:55 PM - Re: green paint (Jimbo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: transponders |
I have a very nice GARMIN 320 for sale as we have to change to MODE S Transponders.
Unit was just installed for approx 45hrs. Works very nice no warm up period
if anybody interested please contact me. zoechling@gmx.de
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119320#119320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00008_134.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
On my airplane, air comes IN from the tailcone area and escapes
through the sides of the canopy. The boot around my control stick
tends to baloon out and I can unzip the boot and get additional
airflow into the cabin. Somehow, the tailcone is slightly
pressureized. The only other air intake I have into the cabin is the
NACA vents in the forward cabin sides.
>
> One of my concerns is air movement while flying. I assume some of
> the air that comes in via the cool air scoops escapes around the
> canopy seal, but I wonder if that is enough. An opening in the
> rear baggage area bulkhead would vent into the tailcone which I'm
> thinking would be an area of slight negative pressure. That might
> be enough to help cool air (and heat in the winter) move thru the
> cockpit. You could even build a vent into the underside of the
> fuselage if you wanted to. You could also follow Mark's advice and
> take it a little farther with the muffin fans. I haven't made my
> decision yet.
>
> I think a canopy cover with a reflective outer surface would be a
> good item to use while parked outside in the sun.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Horz Stabilizer |
Thanks to all that responded. Its amazing how you can look overlook
something for hours. Just goes to show that you shuold quit when you get tired
!
Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.
Wayne Clagg
701 on gear and rigging.
Do not archive
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
Most good compasses (and all aviation compasses) have compensation
screws. Use a brass screwdriver to adjust the compass with all the
normal electronics on. The process is called swinging the compass. You
need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one out.
Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal
buildings. Then you taxi around and re-align the plane and keep
tweaking the process. It kind of looks like the movies of bees dancing
to tell the others where to find the flowers. If there is not enough
adjustment available a small weak magnet can be set so it works. I
wounder if a non - adjusted compass satisfies the basic equipment rules.
Electrical noise from the fan should not be a problem. Twist the
leads to the fan and maybe add a small capacitor at the fan.
Ken Lilja
do not archive
Jeff Small wrote:
> I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking
> though I would
> install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the
> electronics.
> This could also create a defogger for the canopy.
>
> Hi Gig,
>
> Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?
>
> jeff
>
> do not archive
Message 5
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Listers,
I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive for "cover"
and got 2900+ returns. So, I will check here.
Does anyone know someone who makes covers?
Thanks,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Gettin Close...
...but not as close as Rick
Do Not Archive
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119348#119348
Message 6
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| Subject: | Swinging the compass |
Never thought of the fact that all those compass rose's I've seen in the
last 50 yrs were placed over sections of the runway that didn't have any
rebar in them. I learn something every day. :>)
LOW&SLO John
The process is called swinging the compass. You
need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one
out.
Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal
buildings. > jeff
Message 7
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HI
GOT MY COVER FROM BRUCE COVER, S. IN CAL. FOR MY 601
FIT. S PERFECT
HOPE THIS HELP, S BEN
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Is this XL firewall drawing wrong? |
I was also in the same boat that you are. There is a
conflict with the two drawings. I drew the firewall
assembly in autocad to check to see if there were any
more gotchas. If you can read these drawings, I can
send them to you. Pls specify the autocad revision you
need.
Ken
--- chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>
> Can someone who is about the same building as me
> please confirm or deny that the side firewall
> drawing is wrong on 6-B-7.
>
> OK turn to the page and look at the top Engine mount
> location. On the drawing it shows the bottom of
> 6B7-2 as level with 6B7-1. Now if you add the width
> of 6B7-1 30mm and the 20 mm of the Langle that adds
> up to 50mm. The width of 6B7-2 is 60mm How can they
> be level at the top and bottom as the drawing
> shows.. ??? I have the latest set
>
> My firewall has the 10mm split and that is what made
> it not jell when putting in the top firewall bolt.
>
> So what gives have I made a mistake or is the
> drawing wrong?
>
> Chris.
> Zodiac XL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119045#119045
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
Message 9
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| Subject: | Stainjless Steel Rivets |
Guys,
I called the factory and got my SS rivets today. They are designated as
an AS5. They are a 5/32nd rivet with 3-5 mm grip range. The parts lady
told me the only number she has for them is 0512. I don't know if that's
a P/N or what. They are 15 cents @ and can be shipped USPS. The XL takes
23 rivets for the whole plane according to Zenith. I ordered 50 just in
case.
Kevin R.
601XL/ Corvair
Message 10
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| Subject: | Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on
takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a
90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had
plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had
inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong
tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR
BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS
FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with
the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a
higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more
critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the
tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't
vapor lock.
Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an
engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab
involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application
immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below:
From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM
cc: micheintz@gmail.com
Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned
I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It
occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine
immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor,
so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time
by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to
keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows:
601HDS built from Kit
Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC
Finger screens in the tank
Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank
Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar
Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall
Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps
Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump
Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter
Outside air temp - 80 F
Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than
downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was
concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump.
The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The
Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor
Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and
flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this
incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using
the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no
indications of a problem or contamination.
The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those
on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n
05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter,
though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure
drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional
issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full
power climbs with Aux pumps off.
Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless
filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump
redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing.
I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help
some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL
Clear Skies!
Chuck Long, CFI
Zodie Rocket
N601LE, 110 hr TT
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
on needed requitrement, the DAR and FAA will be looking for a compass deviation
card in the plane, so you want to go through the motions. Everyone is telling
me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate
in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of
a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Lilja <planes_by_ken@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Jun 19, 2007 8:43 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)
>
>
>Most good compasses (and all aviation compasses) have compensation
>screws. Use a brass screwdriver to adjust the compass with all the
>normal electronics on. The process is called swinging the compass. You
>need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one out.
> Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal
>buildings. Then you taxi around and re-align the plane and keep
>tweaking the process. It kind of looks like the movies of bees dancing
>to tell the others where to find the flowers. If there is not enough
>adjustment available a small weak magnet can be set so it works. I
>wounder if a non - adjusted compass satisfies the basic equipment rules.
> Electrical noise from the fan should not be a problem. Twist the
>leads to the fan and maybe add a small capacitor at the fan.
>Ken Lilja
> do not archive
>
>Jeff Small wrote:
>> I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking
>> though I would
>> install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the
>> electronics.
>> This could also create a defogger for the canopy.
>>
>> Hi Gig,
>>
>> Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?
>>
>> jeff
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic
environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the visibility
is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher varieties.
Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
Ed
---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me compass
not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case
the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in
times when rented a plane with iffy DGs.
>
> Juan
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
Too funny, Ed. I needed a good laugh today.
Tracy Smith
N458XL reserved
do not archive
In a message dated 6/19/2007 1:40:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dredmoody@cox.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very
acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the
visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher varieties.
Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
Ed
---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me
compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in
case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of a
pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs.
>
> Juan
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
Ed,
If this is like all the other aviation nets I have been on, you are
bound to get some sore head static from the pickle remark. As for me I have
a great sense of humor and therefor thought it was funny as hell.
Tracy Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)
>
> There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a
> very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion.
> Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher
> varieties.
>
> Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
>
> Ed
>
> ---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me
> compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to
> navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my
> self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs.
>>
>> Juan
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
>There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic
environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion....
And here I thought it was because their Scotchbrite green coloring that was the
problem. Who knew!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
APOLOGIZING IN ADVANCE
Mitch Hodges
--------
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Wings Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119467#119467
Message 16
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|
I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good,
cheap! Wallmart. do not archive.
Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues
> message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
> I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive
> for "cover" and got
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
Gentlemen:
Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or
two:
- I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the
whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the
correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by
running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can
be
wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error.
- there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally
knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector
completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way
BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run
during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate
crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary
switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO
pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the
one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure.......
Any thoughts??
Thanks
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
charles.long@gm.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on
takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a
90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had
plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had
inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong
tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR
BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS
FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with
the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a
higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more
critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the
tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't
vapor lock.
Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an
engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab
involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application
immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below:
From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM
cc: micheintz@gmail.com
Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned
I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It
occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine
immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor,
so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time
by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to
keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows:
601HDS built from Kit
Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC
Finger screens in the tank
Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank
Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar
Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall
Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps
Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump
Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter
Outside air temp - 80 F
Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than
downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was
concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump.
The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The
Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor
Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and
flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this
incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using
the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no
indications of a problem or contamination.
The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those
on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n
05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter,
though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure
drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional
issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full
power climbs with Aux pumps off.
Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless
filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump
redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing.
I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help
some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL
Clear Skies!
Chuck Long, CFI
Zodie Rocket
N601LE, 110 hr TT
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
This has been discussed and I will say the same thing I said then.
Get a glass of water and two drinking straws. Put both straws in your mouth. Put
one straw in the water and the other outside the glass.
Now suck.
The outcome is exactly what will happen if one fuel tank is empty.
[quote="crvsecretary"]Gentlemen:
Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two:
- I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole
run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct
pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running
one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired
to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error.
- there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable
on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely
and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH
pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during
cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding
from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch
wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO
pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one
fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure.......
Any thoughts??
Thanks
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles.long@gm.com
writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
>
> A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on
> takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on
a
> 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had
> plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had
> inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong
> tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR
> BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS
> FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with
> the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a
> higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more
> critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the
> tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't
> vapor lock.
>
> Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an
> engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab
> involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application
> immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below:
>
>
> From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM
>
> To: Zenith-List Digest List
> cc: micheintz@gmail.com
> Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned
>
> I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It
> occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine
> immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor,
> so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time
> by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to
> keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows:
>
> 601HDS built from Kit
> Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC
> Finger screens in the tank
> Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank
> Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar
> Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall
> Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps
> Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump
> Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter
> Outside air temp - 80 F
>
> Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than
> downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was
> concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump.
>
> The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119484#119484
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve arrangement ,not a
"Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both tanks are connected to the
fuel system at the same time and one is empty or very low, that low tank constitutes
a problem that the full one does not compensate for.
Now as for having both pumps run whenever the (single) switch is "on", I don't
think it would be a problem in the operation of fuel delivery but it may not be
good for the pump that is pushing against a closed valve. You could check that
out with the manufacturer of the pump. If the pump is not run dry, it may not
harm it to run against the closed valve.
Dred
---- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or
> two:
>
> - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the
> whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure
the
> correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by
> running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can
be
> wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error.
>
> - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally
> knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector
> completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way
> BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run
> during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate
> crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary
> switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from
NO
> pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the
> one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure.......
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Thanks
>
> Tracy Smith
> N458XL (reserved)
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> charles.long@gm.com writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
>
> A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on
> takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a
> 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had
> plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had
> inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong
> tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR
> BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS
> FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with
> the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a
> higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more
> critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the
> tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't
> vapor lock.
>
> Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an
> engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab
> involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application
> immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below:
>
>
> From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM
>
> To: Zenith-List Digest List <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
> cc: micheintz@gmail.com
> Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned
>
> I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It
> occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine
> immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor,
> so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time
> by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to
> keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows:
>
> 601HDS built from Kit
> Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC
> Finger screens in the tank
> Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank
> Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar
> Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall
> Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps
> Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump
> Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter
> Outside air temp - 80 F
>
> Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than
> downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was
> concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump.
>
> The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The
> Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor
> Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and
> flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this
> incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using
> the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no
> indications of a problem or contamination.
>
> The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those
> on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n
> 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter,
> though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure
> drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional
> issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full
> power climbs with Aux pumps off.
>
> Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless
> filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump
> redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing.
>
> I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help
> some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL
>
>
> Clear Skies!
> Chuck Long, CFI
> Zodie Rocket
> N601LE, 110 hr TT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Swinging the compass |
Hi John,
There is an alternate method for getting correct directions when
swinging the compass.
You turn on the GPS unit and let the plane roll forward a small
distance, say 15 ft.
If it is a good GPS unit, it will tell you the direction with utter
precision.
BTW, this is a quick way to recheck the compass periodically.
Happy flying,
Klaus
--
Klaus Truemper
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and
Computer Science EC31
P.O. Box 830688
Richardson, TX 75083-0688
(972) 883-2712
klaus@utdallas.edu
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) |
if you have issues with the pickle................go kosher!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: robert stone <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
>Sent: Jun 19, 2007 2:55 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)
>
>
>Ed,
> If this is like all the other aviation nets I have been on, you are
>bound to get some sore head static from the pickle remark. As for me I have
>a great sense of humor and therefor thought it was funny as hell.
>
>Tracy Stone
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:37 PM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)
>
>
>>
>> There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a
>> very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion.
>> Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher
>> varieties.
>>
>> Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> ---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me
>> compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to
>> navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my
>> self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs.
>>>
>>> Juan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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|
Aaron,
C'mon, what pattern did you pick?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
<agustafson@chartermi.net>
I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good,
cheap! Wallmart. do not archive.
Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues
> message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
> I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive
> for "cover" and got
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
Dred, here's my set up ,2 facet pumps set up after the gasolater with a on
and off fuel slector on each wing tank going to the gasolater 2 swiches on
the dash 1for each pump ,I flip them both on for take and landings,and use
only 1 for cruise I alt from time to time on the 1 for cruise. any in put?
Joe N101HD 601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.netTo: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned
>
> I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve arrangement
> ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both tanks are
> connected to the fuel system at the same time and one is empty or very
> low, that low tank constitutes a problem that the full one does not
> compensate for.
>
> Now as for having both pumps run whenever the (single) switch is "on", I
> don't think it would be a problem in the operation of fuel delivery but it
> may not be good for the pump that is pushing against a closed valve. You
> could check that out with the manufacturer of the pump. If the pump is not
> run dry, it may not harm it to run against the closed valve.
>
> Dred
>
> ---- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Gentlemen:
>>
>> Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question
>> or
>> two:
>>
>> - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the
>> whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be
>> sure the
>> correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by
>> running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both
>> pumps can be
>> wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error.
>>
>> - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally
>> knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel
>> selector
>> completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That
>> way
>> BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can
>> run
>> during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will
>> eliminate
>> crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang
>> rotary
>> switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer
>> from NO
>> pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that
>> the
>> one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure.......
>>
>> Any thoughts??
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tracy Smith
>> N458XL (reserved)
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> charles.long@gm.com writes:
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>>
>>
>> A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on
>> takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff
>> on a
>> 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had
>> plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had
>> inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong
>> tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP
>> FOR
>> BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC
>> PUMPS
>> FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was
>> with
>> the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has
>> a
>> higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even
>> more
>> critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of
>> the
>> tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't
>> vapor lock.
>>
>> Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an
>> engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab
>> involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application
>> immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below:
>>
>>
>> From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM
>>
>> To: Zenith-List Digest List <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
>> cc: micheintz@gmail.com
>> Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned
>>
>> I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It
>> occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The
>> engine
>> immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling
>> propellor,
>> so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second
>> time
>> by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to
>> keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows:
>>
>> 601HDS built from Kit
>> Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC
>> Finger screens in the tank
>> Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank
>> Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar
>> Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall
>> Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps
>> Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump
>> Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter
>> Outside air temp - 80 F
>>
>> Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than
>> downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was
>> concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump.
>>
>> The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The
>> Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor
>> Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps
>> and
>> flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this
>> incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested
>> using
>> the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no
>> indications of a problem or contamination.
>>
>> The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those
>> on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n
>> 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter,
>> though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure
>> drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional
>> issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full
>> power climbs with Aux pumps off.
>>
>> Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless
>> filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel
>> pump
>> redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing.
>>
>> I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help
>> some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL
>>
>>
>> Clear Skies!
>> Chuck Long, CFI
>> Zodie Rocket
>> N601LE, 110 hr TT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** See what's free at
>> http://www.aol.com.
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
You also want to be able to turn off the fuel flow in case of
emergency. You don't want to be trying to get out of the cabin after
a crash landing while the pumps are filling the cabin with fuel
through ruptured fuel lines.
>
> I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve
> arrangement ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If
> both tanks are connected to the fuel system at the same time and
> one is empty or very low, that low tank constitutes a problem that
> the full one does not compensate for.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 25
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|
My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no strawberries".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cover
>
> Aaron,
>
> C'mon, what pattern did you pick?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
> Do not archive
>
> <agustafson@chartermi.net>
>
> I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good,
> cheap! Wallmart. do not archive.
>
> Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues
>
>
>> message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>> I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive
>> for "cover" and got
>
>
> --
> 3:02 PM
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
Joe, do you have a header tank ? I didn't see the need for fuel pumps from
the wing tanks without a header tank on a standard XL. Do you have some special
issues ? I have only one elec fuel pump between gasalator to mech fuel pump
on my XL and it seems to do fine. I have an in line filter between pumps. This
is with a 3300 Jab. Maybe I missed something, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 27
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I hadn't thought of making one. Maybe I can get my wife to oil up her sewing machine
and make me one. I will probably have to operate the foot feed though,
since it's an old singer with a tredle
:D
agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote:
> My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no strawberries".
>
>
> ---
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119540#119540
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
When a facet fuel pump is directly feeding the float bowls it is pushing
against closed float valves for a large part of the time.
No prob.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 29
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That's the kind I made mine on. I brought it home from Germany 32 years ago
when my hitch was done. I've never used an electric one but this one has
sown many a camping gear and harness. I also made all of the upholstery for
my 601 and Kolb before that. do not archive
> I hadn't thought of making one. Maybe I can get my wife to oil up her
> sewing machine and make me one. I will probably have to operate the foot
> feed though, since it's an old singer with a tredle
> agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote:
>> My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no
>> strawberries".
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
Bryan, I have 2 dash switches,and a wing fuel valve for each wing, so I
can shut everything off,if thing's go south. Joe N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned
You also want to be able to turn off the fuel flow in case of
emergency. You don't want to be trying to get out of the cabin after a
crash landing while the pumps are filling the cabin with fuel through
ruptured fuel lines.
I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve
arrangement ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both
tanks are connected to the fuel system at the same time and one is empty
or very low, that low tank constitutes a problem that the full one does
not compensate for.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned |
Bill,I don't have a mech. pump ,so I have 2 for my Ram 130 Subaru.I had
thought about add another pump on a seperate small batt, switch
independnt from the other 2 I n case of elect failure . Joe N101HD
----- Original Message
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned
Joe, do you have a header tank ? I didn't see the need for fuel pumps
from the wing tanks without a header tank on a standard XL. Do you have
some special issues ? I have only one elec fuel pump between gasalator
to mech fuel pump on my XL and it seems to do fine. I have an in line
filter between pumps. This is with a 3300 Jab. Maybe I missed something,
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Swinging the compass |
I think there may be a problem with this method, a GPS will give you
true North not local magnetic north, which is what a compass does. In
the eastern and midwest USA there isn't much difference but in the west
is about 18 degrees declination.
Tim Shankland
Klaus Truemper wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> There is an alternate method for getting correct directions when
> swinging the compass.
> You turn on the GPS unit and let the plane roll forward a small
> distance, say 15 ft.
> If it is a good GPS unit, it will tell you the direction with utter
> precision.
> BTW, this is a quick way to recheck the compass periodically.
>
> Happy flying,
>
> Klaus
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair folk: new posting on William Wynne's web site |
> Zenair CH 610 HD N282RS, Randy Stout, San Antonio, Texas, First Flight August
18, 2004
Make that eleven. On Sunday, I watched Randy take his 601 HD up for its first
flight behind a new Jabiru 3300. In conversations with Randy, it was evident
the Corvair's weak crank, weight, and long down time didn't sit well with him.
Having seen two Jabiru-powered 601s, if I had to give up my EA-81, I'd seriously
consider the 3300.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119564#119564
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Swinging the compass |
My Garmin GPSMAP 296 can be set to display magnetic or true.
-- Craig
Message 35
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It also comes in yellow. I have never seen gray. Due
to the fact that mine will most likely live outside in
a coastal environment, I'm using zinc cromate on all
interior surfaces that will be closed up and therefore
not easily inspected for corrosion.
--- Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
> We've been through this in the archives pretty
> thoroughly but the short version is:
>
> You really only need to prime the places where two
> parts touch because moisture will wick in and remain
> there often. Remember the places where skins
> overlap.
>
> I chose to prime the entire inside of mine so that
> anything that won't be painted later for esthetics
> will be at least be primed for protection.
>
> The green stuff (also available in gray) is likely
> either Zinc Chromate (very toxic.... be careful) or
> Zinc Oxide (somewhat more friendly) self etching
> primer. I used Tempo Zinc Oxide from rattle cans and
> bought it at Aircraft Spruce.
>
> The water based stuff, Cortec, seems to be okay too.
>
> If you don't do at least some of the above, you
> should use the spray-the-inside-of-the-plane stuff
> once a year or so.
>
> Dred
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben Ramler
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:11 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: green paint
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> When I was at Rogers place i noticed he painted
> some green ant-corrosion paint on certain places. My
> question this does anyone know what the name of it
> is and don't you have to paint the whole entire
> airplane with this stuff or no?
>
> thanks,
>
> Ben
> Zenith wanna-be
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